General Debate 19 August 2014

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Viking2

NZ first Fucked.

Ron Mark back with NZ First
AIMEE GULLIVER
Last updated 15:23 19/08/2014

Ron Mark
BACK IN THE FOLD: Ron Mark is returning to New Zealand First.

New Zealand First MP Andrew Williams is set to be dumped to a seemingly unelectable position on the party list, with former MP Ron Mark set to rejoin the party.

Stuff understands a draft copy of the NZ First list, determined by the party’s selection committee on the weekend, has Williams ranked at 13, and Mark ranked at 9.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10399377/Ron-Mark-back-with-NZ-First

Why would anyone vote for this bunch of misfits.
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August 19, 2014 5:05pm
Viking2

wouldn’t it be nice if all the “haters and Wreckers” of the left just went off to the Stranded and peddled their vile opinions.
We, the intelligent don’t need this crap plastered all over KB. Its was great before you came so be good people (difficult I am aware), and just bugger off.

Oh you can’t because the Stranded has banned you all.

Well who would be surprised?

Perhaps lefty moderation wouldn’t be such a bad thing.
It amazes me how you scum think you need to tell us how to think.
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August 19, 2014 5:10pm
Nostradamus

Stigie:

Where is Nasska when you need him with links to the cuckoo family ?

There’s a vacancy for the role of cuckoo monitor. The position needs to be filled urgently.

David Attenborough was, regrettably, unavailable at short notice.

Perhaps you could step up to the plate? The Kiwiblog community is relying on you!
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August 19, 2014 5:13pm
lurcher1948

You poor buggers from the right,Farrars children seem to be shocked that you have been exposed as rubbish ,enough said Cameron Slater is a pasty fat fuckwit shithead,SUMS UP THE RIGHT WINGERS,ENOUGH SAID
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August 19, 2014 5:17pm
UglyTruth

the public interest probably only comes in to protect Hager’s decision to publish the emails, not to protect who stole them.

The emails were copied, not stolen.
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August 19, 2014 5:19pm
mikenmild

Stay classy, lurcher.
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August 19, 2014 5:21pm
ciaron

The emails were copied, not stolen.

Was permission obtained for this UT?
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August 19, 2014 5:30pm
Griff

Many insightful posts today
telling us on the right how bad we are
PBWV and lurcher
Are such bastions of morel fortitude and decorum..Persons of the left displaying such behavior are truly showing the way by example.
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August 19, 2014 5:32pm
2clever4U

Ugly Ruth. The information was stolen. It was the property of someone taken without permission or payment: stealing. It’s like an idea, that’s not a unique physical entity either but it can be stolen. Try to get your brain to function as a whole; it seems divided into fragments.
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August 19, 2014 5:39pm
stigie

“Perhaps you could step up to the plate? The Kiwiblog community is relying on you!”

Nasska has never resigned from that position Nostra that i am lead to believe.
The man from Eke has produced the goods always[apart from today] when needed, to take any sadness away !~
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August 19, 2014 5:46pm
nasska

Pressure of work stigie. Even in my dotage I have to earn enough to help pay the dole for the Labour/Green/Mana bludgers so they can sit in bed in their onesies criticising the capitalists. 🙂
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August 19, 2014 6:02pm
lurcher1948

COLLINS IS GONE and your islander/chinese husband will get rid of you, YAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOO
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August 19, 2014 6:06pm
lurcher1948

Thanks workers,lurcher1948 is retired But has a part time job(im good at what i do) so i get paid,twice next week paid and get the pension, so you suckers calling me a dolebludgers,WORK HARD,I LOVE IT you pay every 2nd week
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August 19, 2014 6:28pm
ross411

lurcher1948 (97 comments) says:
August 19th, 2014 at 6:06 pm
COLLINS IS GONE and your islander/chinese husband will get rid of you, YAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOO

I think you have a blockage. If you clear it, then you’ll be able to communicate in a fashion which can be understood, like the rest of us. The frustration will melt away, and it’ll be like you’re sitting on a beach on a summer’s day. The sun shining, warn and relaxing above you, and the blue cloudless sky stretching into the horizon.

You’ll no longer have to worry about higher power prices because of a Kiwipower company, invented as a baseless solution to an unexamined problem. You’ll no longer have to worry about having to earn more money and pay more tax, to pay for people to not work. You’ll no longer have to worry about not having much of a say in the party of your choice, because it the unions have more of a say than you. And so on.

You know that National makes sense. And John Key is that likeable. It’s okay to like someone. It’s okay to not have to pay a stipend to bullies which is what unions often are, and to read a website like The Standard (as Whaleoil is) filled with negativity and bile. You don’t have to hate so much, that your posts are incomprehensible.

Relax. Come to the light. Away from the darkness and madness you’ve lived in for so long with Labour, and it’s liars. See how good it feels not to be repeating their lies.
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August 19, 2014 6:36pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8do9pa4vnbcvxyl/Atheism%203.jpg
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August 19, 2014 7:01pm
UglyTruth

The information was stolen.

No, it wasn’t. Stealing involves depriving someone of possession of something.

It was the property of someone taken without permission or payment: stealing.

Just like taking someone’s photograph without their permission.
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August 19, 2014 7:21pm
UglyTruth

“The emails were copied, not stolen.”

Was permission obtained for this UT?

No, they were copied without permission, just like your browser copies pages from DPF’s server without permission.

Everything is permitted, which is not forbidden by law.
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/bouvier/maxims.shtml
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August 19, 2014 7:27pm
ciaron

No, they were copied without permission, just like your browser copies pages from DPF’s server without permission.

That’s plainly a false equivalence. One is a communication between the sender and recipient, the other is a communication between the blog writer and whoever stumbles across the blog and cares enough to read it.
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August 19, 2014 7:48pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth ,some rather oddball jurisprudence woo there . ?

Thus I compose a song or create an app and exercise my rightful proprietary rights over it but you can pirate it for free.?

Interesting. !
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August 19, 2014 7:50pm
ciaron

On a lighter note; anyone remember Fergal Sharkey?
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August 19, 2014 7:53pm
EAD

Here’s one for ya Stephie

John Stossel calls on all Conservatives, Libertarians and Liberals to unite against the Police State that is now the USA.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/23/conservatives-libertarians-and-liberals-should-all-worry-about-militarization/
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August 19, 2014 8:00pm
UglyTruth

That’s plainly a false equivalence.

No it isn’t. If it was a false equivalence then there would be some reason for a distinction between the two cases.

One is a communication between the sender and recipient, the other is a communication between the blog writer and whoever stumbles across the blog and cares enough to read it.

Copying is a pretty general concept that isn’t limited to senders, recipients, blog writers, or blog readers.
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August 19, 2014 8:03pm
nasska

The teacher brings a statue of Venus into class and asks,
‘What do you like best about it, class?’
‘Let’s start with you, Robert.’
‘The artwork,’ says Robert.
‘Very good. And you, Peter?’
‘Her tits!’ says Peter.
‘Peter, get out! Go stand in the hall,’ responds the teacher with disgust. ‘And you, Johnny?’
‘I’m leaving, teacher, I’m leaving…’.
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August 19, 2014 8:09pm
ciaron

No it isn’t. If it was a false equivalence then there would be some reason for a distinction between the two cases.

You mean like how one is intended to be read by the recipient and the other is intended to be read by anyone?
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August 19, 2014 8:10pm
stephieboy

EAD, yes militarization of the law enforcement agencies is of concern but its nothing new. In the Watts riots of 1965 tanks and combat troops were used to quell those riots,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Riots

and the Symbioses Liberation Army,

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/guerrilla/peopleevents/e_kidnapping.html
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August 19, 2014 8:16pm
Steve (North Shore)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n67ykcrlua8hbz9/Protons%20have%20Mass.jpg

Old?
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August 19, 2014 8:16pm
EAD

Stephie,

it’s a long way away from the Sir Roberts Peels principles on what constitutes an ethical police though isn’t it?
force http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

These principles include:
– The purpose of the police should be to prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force
– Every police officer should be issued an identification number, to assure accountability for his actions.
– Whether the police are effective is not measured on the number of arrests, but on the lack of crime.
– Above all else, an effective authority figure knows trust and accountability are paramount. Hence, Peel’s most often quoted principle that “The police are the public and the public are the police.”
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August 19, 2014 8:25pm
Nostradamus

Ciaron:

Your discussion with UglyTruth reminds me of a recent exchange between ADC and UglyTruth.

adc’s question:

adc (581 comments) says:
August 15th, 2014 at 10:48 am

Ugly Truth

If you were an author, and were just about to submit your manuscript to publishers, and found someone had copied it and published it first in their name, would you consider that theft?

you were not deprived of your manuscript.

You were deprived of the right to determine what happens to your work though. And many other rights.

If you were a film studio, or record company, and you were deprived of your rights to make a return on your investment because someone was selling copies of your work, that is theft.

UglyTruth’s response:

UglyTruth (4,532 comments) says:
August 15th, 2014 at 11:00 am

If you were an author, and were just about to submit your manuscript to publishers, and found someone had copied it and published it first, would you consider that theft?

No.

you were not deprived of you manuscript.

You were deprived of the right to determine what happens to your work though. And many other rights.

So what? As soon as the original publishers perfected the contract the rights that I lost by the other party pre-empting me would have been lost anyway.

If you were a film studio, or record company, and you were deprived of you rights to make a return on your investment because someone was selling copies of your work, that is theft.

No, those companies have no right to make a return on an investment. The get to suffer the rewards of bad planning like anyone else.

Now that last part – film companies have no right to make a return on their investment – probably sums up the essential difference between your position and UglyTruth’s position. If your respective positions are that far apart, as I suspect they are, then I can’t see much scope for either of you to agree with the other.
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August 19, 2014 8:29pm
Nookin

“Thus I compose a song or create an app and exercise my rightful proprietary rights over it but you can pirate it for free.?”

Of course not Stephieboy. Very strict criteria must be satisfied before copying is ok:

1. The app must be effective and make the copier a lot of money.
2. The song must be a good one and make the copier a lot of money
3. The copying will help shaft the person from whom it was taken or someone else whom the copier dislikes — such as a political party.
4. The copier must reside in the pink to scarlet colours of the political spectrum.
5. Exceptions may be made for visitors who would ordinarily be “bluish” if, by copying, they stick it to rich people who aren’t really very nice –supposedly.

Without any of these criteria present, copying is naughty.
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August 19, 2014 8:30pm
ciaron

@Nostradamus,
I see. I guess I engage because Ugly Truth presents viewpoints that seem to me (at face value, no legal training, no legal experience – and I hope to keep it that way!) to often be diametrically opposed to what I think is common sense, or how I think the law should be applied.

Did I miss the day when one of the resident lawyers schooled UT, or am I simply wrong?
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August 19, 2014 8:42pm
Nukuleka

Scrolling through this at the end of the day and boy oh boy what an eye-opener to see the number of lost souls who have strayed over from The Standard to vent their awfulness upon us poor unsuspecting KBers. lurcher1948 seems to epitomise the vile nastiness that lprent and Karol insist is only to be found on the right of the spectrum.

And how come Penny B has so much time on her hands to be inflicting her ramblings upon the us all? Get out to Helensville, Penny, and start doing some door-knocking. Let the good folk of the electorate have the opportunity to see just what stiff competition John Key is facing.

Might be a good idea to take that latest rates demand with you to show them just what an unprincipled bludger you are!
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August 19, 2014 9:11pm
Griff

Ugly has had a go at all the known lawyers on kb
He always insist they are wrong so most now probably write him off as a certifiable insane moonbat with a case of fried brain from standing to close to a leaking microwave wearing his tin foil hat.
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August 19, 2014 9:14pm
Nookin

Ciaron

FE Smith had a go for a while but got calluses on his forehead from banging against the brick wall. Unfortunately, UT’s theories of jurisprudence predate photocopying machines and his understanding of dishonest removal of someone else’s property is limited to the tangible.
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August 19, 2014 9:36pm
Rowan

Definitely time for Key to get rid of the tax lawyer after this latest episode with whale and her denials of what she sent him.
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August 19, 2014 10:34pm
Nookin

Come up for air have you Rowan? Whats the score over there?
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August 19, 2014 10:51pm
Scott Chris

Any Beatles fans out there wanna see a chick do it hard here’s Annie Clarke I LOVE HER:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lan-UQfN0zs
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August 19, 2014 11:43pm
Dennis Horne

Rowan. Getting rid of Judith Collins won’t help. No cabinet is going to compensate anyone for killing his family. Not now, not ever. Eventually the loonies in the Herald and television will give up campaigning for a lost cause. You of course will carry on.

By the way, how’s Mr Karam doing? Is he felling better now?
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August 20, 2014 5:35am
Mark

Of more concern for Key about Collins is if or when more damaging material is released that implicates Collins. Already on a 2nd last chance she is now a political liability.
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August 20, 2014 7:22am

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