General Debate 20 August 2014

August 20th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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221 Responses to “General Debate 20 August 2014”

  1. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    The Universe is violent. Earth is not a safe place. Civilisation is not a natural state. A decent and fair society is not inevitable. There must be rules and discipline. Responsibility.

    Poverty may (or not) be the root of all “evil”, but the root of poverty is rooting. Dependants.

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  2. mjw (399 comments) says:

    I like the rowing eight. Which one is Judith Collins? For that matter, which one is Gerry Brownlee?

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  3. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Sir Clive Palmer and the business relationship with a Chinese state company (a port and the mining on his farm) are in nuclear melt down – House of Cards, smuggling the role of tusk up the canary coloured togs.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11311376

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  4. Lance (2,708 comments) says:

    After those first 3 comments I must ask is it “off your meds day” today?

    Just asking

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  5. Tarquin North (353 comments) says:

    The bloke who invented pop up ads has apologised. I heard this on the radio and immediately thought of David Cunliffe.

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  6. mjw (399 comments) says:

    Lance – have you not seen the new National ad with the rowers?

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  7. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    Notice that the CminusT newsletter (aka Herald) is panning the fiscal update because the ACC has not dropped employer and employee levy rates, confining cuts to motorists etc.

    The Herald forgets that ACC has assets and liabilities. Well, I may be dumb, but I do not see how they can be excluded since any liabilities are underwritten by the Crown. To say that they should have made cuts and accepted a deficit (that is the implied suggestion) is just plain dumb.

    And there is also the crap DomPost view that the surplus has gone from (to paraphrase), “not much to bugger all.”
    For those that want an independent, detailed view devoid of a left wing cast, try the authors:

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/forecasts/prefu2014

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  8. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Hamas breaks another 24-hour ceasefire agreed between Israel and Hamas during indirect talks in Cairo the ceasefire by firing three rockets towards the southern Israeli town of Beersheba shortly before 4pm.
    But they really want peace.
    Really, really, really…
    This time..
    Honestly.

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  9. Lance (2,708 comments) says:

    @mjw
    Oh I see… no I haven’t, I will check it out.
    Seemed like a very odd comment and I had no context.

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  10. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    John Key’s sort of found himself snookered.

    He is moving to the position of conceding that the offence by Collins would have been serious enough to end her career if it had occurred after the final warning (because this is the circumstance) – but not acting because the offence took place earlier.

    The sooner he concedes this the sooner he can move on.

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  11. kowtow (8,753 comments) says:

    How many are “kiwis” ?

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/islamic-state-50000-fighters-syria-2014819184258421392.html

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  12. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Hamas breaks the ceasefire and Israel walks out of talks after Hamas fires rockets into Southern Israel

    Mike McRoberts on RNZ states “you can’t blame Hamas, what other choice did they have but to fire rockets”

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  13. Viking2 (11,561 comments) says:

    Voting can’t come soon enough.

    Rather feed up with all the crap from the left.

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  14. tvb (4,499 comments) says:

    Judith Collins is being asked to take her own responsibility for her Muldoonist style of politics. She is a good Justice Minister BUT. Bill English makes it plain it is not his style and made it plain it is not the Prime Ministers. I think most National Party supporters will support that view.

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  15. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Lance, so you don’t see know that the Palmer story in the Herald reads like a Civilian satire of the plot in the House of Cards?

    Wit is wasted on some

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  16. Lance (2,708 comments) says:

    @viking2
    Alas I suspect it’s only going to get worse.
    Last night the fuckers on TVone news videoed some plonker of a reporter going to Judith Colins front door, nice wide shot so every half wit with a grudge knows what her house looks like.
    Assholes

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  17. Paulus (2,659 comments) says:

    When will people – the media, realise that the Internal Affairs officer leaked information to the Labour Party five years ago, and it was public knowledge at the time, before the last election.
    Getting boring – looking forward to Police action for theft – oh I forgot they have not got the time as there are over 100 other actionable election cases still in front of it, and they do not have the sheer brainpower to investigate.
    Ok to prosecute Banks but anything else is too difficult, and the judges would throw out any possible convictions.

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  18. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Lance, so what if they know what her house looks like. Those in the street already know where she lives, others do not know what street it is.

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  19. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    Some time ago the charismatic Labour PM said.”The NZ MSM were like reef fish” He was on the button. as we see the so called MSM swishing and swerving chasing every bit of gossip and rumour.Come hell or high water they are hell bent in turning NZ into the basket case of the South Pacific by trying to get potential economy wreckers elected as the Government BY DEFAULT.Biggest pathetic hypocrites are the Australian owned NZ HERALD.When Andrea Vance a NZ journalist had her emails stolen that paper led the charge of all sorts of claims,from GCSB,SIS or just anyone they could blame.Now alongs comes a self confessed thief Called tricky NIcky Hager of many many personal emails .The Australian owned Herald embraces the thief, then uses some of the stolen emails to sell their paper.Here we have Hager making money selling stolen goods,as well as THE NZ HERALD,of alleged events of at least five years ago.Question what is more important the rantings of Hager ,or some cloth capped Journalist union hack in the Herald calling himself a” journalist” when really just another thief of someone elses emails.”LETS HOPE WHEN THE POLICE INVESTIGATE HAGER ,THEY ALSO INVESTIGATE THE HERALD,MAKING MONEY FROM THEFT.

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  20. IGM (522 comments) says:

    Campbell has really excelled in his pro-Labour escapade. He has gone from gutter trawling to absolute sewer tactics, and the sleeze, lies, deception, and innuendo is getting worse. Is he related to the other despicable disgrace Gordon Campbell of Fairfax? They are as bad as one another. I hope Mazda realise while he is using their excellent product many companies are now pulling the pin on their purchases. Also, is he now another regular at the Slobcom bunker?

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  21. Komata (1,197 comments) says:

    Southern Raider

    Re: ‘Mike McRoberts on RNZ states “you can’t blame Hamas, what other choice did they have but to fire rockets”

    No prizes for guessing where his sympathies lie.

    Objective, neutral journalism and reporting?

    Somehow I DON’T think so, but at least we now know that he is just like all the other NZ media ‘Reporter’s’ and should invest in a large container of salt, ‘New Zealand Journalists, the reporting by, to be applied to’.

    Thanks.

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  22. Viking2 (11,561 comments) says:

    Yesterday was a watershed day for KB and DPF.
    Here is how I feel about the attacks on both.

    Having watched this at times through the day (Tuesday), and wondered I am left with an abiding sense of doom with the great attempts at thought control, censorship to suit others and in general an attempt to hijack DPF’s right to Freedom of Speech and his customers (bloggers), right to that same free speech.

    It will be a cold day in hell when Davids blog gets controlled by any form of censorship.

    Viking2 (11,211 comments) says:
    August 19th, 2014 at 8:34 pm
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/some_changes_for_kiwiblog.html#respond

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  23. thePeoplesFlag (256 comments) says:

    A great piece on Kim Dotcom in the Guardian – http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/17/kim-dotcom-megaupload-new-zealand-interview

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  24. EAD (1,296 comments) says:

    Once again the MSM not mentioning the elephant in the room.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9286532/its-ok-to-mention-anti-semitic-attacks-but-not-who-commits-them/?preferdesktop

    When did the MSM in every single Western country that they can deliberately tell lies and hide the truth from the public? Islam, Global warming, economics, foreign affairs the list never ends.

    Like Orwell warned:

    “The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it”

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  25. EAD (1,296 comments) says:

    The funniest, most truthful and damming cartoon I’ve ever seen on Obama – too busy playing golf while the world around him burns:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-19/ignorance-still-bliss

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  26. Padriv Ustoev (85 comments) says:

    EAD

    I don’t understand why you are so surprised, Islamic organizations just have better PR people. We say what we need to say untill it becomes the truth to everyone. Just like reciting recitinga a sura. With good PR we can change the world for teh better. Insha’Allah!

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  27. Nukuleka (346 comments) says:

    I remain optimistic about the September 20 result! National will prevail. John Key was absolutely right not to appear on Campbell Live and to walk away from the relentlessly boring and repetitive media questioning.

    The baddies in this whole charade are the media, and most reasonable NZers see it for what it is- a beat-up. In spite of all the dirt being hurled Key will emerge unscathed and National will hold its support. What after all is the alternative? Cunliffe as PM with Norman AND Turei as co-Deputy PMs. The prospect is simply too unacceptable and worrying to the majority of voters.

    No matter what The Standard bloggers who have strayed into KB waters wish to believe, their nasty Dotcom driven viciousness is not going down well with mainstream New Zealand.

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  28. mjw (399 comments) says:

    Lance – no worries. It’s ok, I am still on my meds! :-)

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  29. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    Never mind where is Judith Collins.Where is Russel Norman the Australian Commie import,the half owner of the no electoral seats Green ISIS like party.Notice Materialistic Turei,a reincarnation of Friar Tuck,and dressed like a Tower of London Beefeater guard dog is getting all that party’s lies and propaganda,with their holier than thou comments, even though they were caught smashing National Pary signs ,and also running a secret rental trust ,using NZ taxpayers money.

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  30. Padriv Ustoev (85 comments) says:

    Komata – RNZ has been very receptive to the plight of the people of Gaza, for which the have our thanks. It is a shame that when we vote in the righteous government that nest of pederasty will need to be judged according to Shariah. Insha’Allah!

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  31. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Anyone else worried more about Ebola than what colour Collin’s dirty underwear is gonna be flying in public today ?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/10400842/Ill-African-traveller-put-in-isolation-at-hospital

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729046/Germany-Ebola-scare-Nigerian-woman-showing-symptoms-killer-disease-faints-jobcentre-forcing-600-people-quarantine.html

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  32. jcuk (713 comments) says:

    Dirty Politics …. YAWN! …. what’s next?

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  33. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    IGM (35 comments) says:

    August 20th, 2014 at 8:24 am

    Campbell has really excelled in his pro-Labour escapade
    ****
    Heh IGM…

    Good news. Check out the latest audience ratings.. 7 Sharp up, dickhead down. to below 200T.
    Mazda might well be doing that critical review, as might TV3’s owners.
    Whale had it yesterday I think

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  34. Komata (1,197 comments) says:

    Padriv

    (From Serbia?)

    A very informative reply. Thank you.

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  35. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    WTF is with this Judith Collins bashing all of a sudden.

    Naming a street after someone she “had links with” instead of a Cantabrian? Isn’t this just a bit too precious-pup & a big deal out of nothing? FFS I’m surprised with the number of streets around that we don’t revert to the American version of using numbers instead.

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  36. FeralScrote (224 comments) says:

    It is getting serious,the weasel Norman and the wide mouth frog with their 10% of the vote now feel they are in a position to dictate terms to Labour( and the rest of us ,if the worst happens).

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  37. Nookin (3,460 comments) says:

    In my view, the most significant issues arising out of the Hager book are not attack dog tactics of Cameron Slater nor whether there is any form of liaison between the blogging community and ministers. Both are so patently obvious that they need no comment. No, the most significant issues relate to the justification for publishing the documentation known to have been secured either by criminal activity or by procuring a staff member to breach the terms of employment agreement and the statutory obligations of good faith on the pretext that publication is in the interests of the public.

    On Pundit, yesterday, Prof Andrew Geddis justified publication of information obtained from our host on the basis that it was in the interests of the public to know about the exchange of information between bloggers and members of Parliament. It did not matter whether the information imparted was scurrilous, wrong or, simply, informative. It was the strategy of using the blogosphere that justified revelation coupled with the seemingly popular notion in New Zealand that if one sticks one’s head above the parapet one can expect to be shot.

    In response to that article, I questioned whether journalists are the most appropriate people to make any sort of judgement on the conflicting interests of public disclosure and maintaining trust and confidence in the workplace. I add to that whether they are in a position to be the arbiters on maintaining the balance between the right of the public to know on the one hand and the maintenance of law and order on the other. In my view, the answer is clearly no.

    My view has been reinforced this morning. I refer to the following links. The first one states that the Law Society is “furious” with Judith Collins over the naming of a lane in the Christchurch Court precinct. If you read the article, you will not find any mention of the Law Society anywhere. There are two named (retired I think) practitioners. Remember, there is only one Law Society. That is the New Zealand Law Society. There is no indication that the Law Society is involved in any way shape or form let alone arriving with its knickers in a twist over Collins’ actions.

    This morning, during the 7 o’clock News, the newsreader referred to Key giving Collins a second last chance or yet another last chance. This is repeated in the links below. Listen to the Prime Minister’s interview. He is asked whether Judith Collins has been given a “last last chance”. He says “no”. He says that she is on a last chance after what happened last time. Although he says that it was unwise to disclose the name of the public servant, he does not make any mention at all of taking issue directly with Collins over this issue whether in the context of a warning, advice or expression of disappointment. What is it about “no” that the journalists do not understand?

    The contents of the interview and of the text of the report under “law society is furious” are quite clear and obvious. Can anybody offer any explanation other than the headlines are deliberate distortions of what actually happened?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10400852/Law-Society-furious-with-Judith-Collins
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10400852/Law-Society-critical-of-Judith-Collins
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11311364
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11311364

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  38. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Nukuleka (242 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 8:38 am

    So what you are saying is that when right wing activists like Whaleoil are nasty and vicious it is acceptable, simply because they are on the right, but when other people are equally as nasty and vicious, when they are on the left, it is wrong?

    I don’t think there are very many people in New Zealand that would describe Cameron Slater as a ‘nice’ right wing activist. So your point to me appears to be very hypocritical, when you are claiming what is acceptable for one group is not for another.

    What Whaleoil et al have conducted is a right wing smear campaign, in which they utilised the media as much as possible to promote material they had obtained by dirty practices. Now, the tide has turned, as it does, and the media are being engaged by the left to promote material they have obtained by dirty practises – it is still the same game, and to me, the only question is, where should the lines be drawn – what aren’t NZers prepared to accept?

    Do our MP’s need a ‘code of conduct’ such as one used by the State Services that prevents bringing their ‘employer’ into disrepute even in their private lives?

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  39. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Naming a street after someone she “had links with” instead of a Cantabrian?

    That is a bit rank though. Just another example of bad judgment.

    She really does need to be shown the door eh!

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  40. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    with their 10% of the vote now feel they are in a position to dictate terms to Labour

    If Greens get say 14% to Labour’s 34% they would have a right to dictate quite a bit in any coalition arrangement. Even if they got 12%, Labour 32% and NZ First or Internet-Mana 6% they can dictate with a quarter of the say.

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  41. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    Just heard on the news that the slimy NZ HERALD is about to start attacking the Labour Party with an embarrassing story taken from Hagers stolen emails,A story about a Labour Politician called Stuart Nash.Wonder will the reef fish media pursue him to the ends of the earth,as seen last night on the Labour Party channel TVNZ,some dolly bird was seen banging the door of Judith Collins That wont happen,wrong party for TVNZ.

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  42. Komata (1,197 comments) says:

    WineOH

    Judith Collins bashing? By the NZ media? Us? Never, no, never. Not ‘arf it aint!!

    She appears to be good at her job (as Minister of Police) and as the political left hates and is intensely jealous of ‘success’ they are out to destroy her, all the while ‘conveniently’ overlooking the fact that their ‘leaders’ have actually been guilty of far worse. it is an interesting application of the phrase’ it’s OK when the left do it’.

    Unfortunately, Mrs Collins has made some mistakes and errors of judgement, which have not helped her case and, as such has shown herself to be vulnerable; an aspect that the MSM, is trying to exploit to ensure her destruction. However, it should be remembered that the MSM (although denying it) is essentially incapable of ‘thinking by itself’ and as such is following an agenda created for it; they are merely ‘marching to a pre-ordained’ tune, and reflecting the ‘party line'; the line that says ‘Labour Good. National Bad’. Viewed from that perspective, their actions do make a degree of sense.

    Unfortunately, I have yet to find an MSM journalist who is brave enough to ‘stand against the tide'; such an individual would seem to be an extinct species (although one can hope…).

    Integrity is always a casualty in such matters.

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  43. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nookin

    Can anybody offer any explanation other than the headlines are deliberate distortions of what actually happened?

    Can you honestly say that in the past the left, be it Greens, Labour, or even centre, like NZFirst, have not been the receivers of headlines that are also deliberate distortions of what actually happened?

    The thing is Nookin, that an awful lot of what I have seen you complain about that is currently being (yes, unfairly in some instances) thrown at National, has in the past, with Nationals support, been also utilised to throw at the left.

    It is very hypocritical to start now complaining about the way the media handle it now that who you support is on the receiving end, and yet you sat back and perhaps laughed, when the same was happening to others?

    As someone said to me this morning, Collin’s double pay back policy seems to have caught on – I wonder how she is enjoying it when she is on the receiving end?

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  44. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Komata (1,135 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:10 am

    I doubt a journalist with too much ‘integrity’ would be very well read in today’s climate. Let’s face it, people like dirt – not just in politics, but about everything. They like to know what famous people are eating and who they are sleeping with, or even not sleeping with and why – when the public have such a thirst and there is money to be made by providing them with what they want, even if its just innuendo, then ones ‘standards’ can easily be forgotten or excused with the need to earn an income.

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  45. Ross12 (1,454 comments) says:

    Nookin

    ” Prof Andrew Geddis justified publication of information obtained from our host on the basis that it was in the interests of the public to know about the exchange of information between bloggers and members of Parliament. ”

    I agree with your comments on this Nookin. Geddis and many others ,who are trying to justify Hager’s criminal activities, are using this argument that bloggers are somehow different to journalists and are not part of the general media. That ignores the fact that media changes as the technology involved in it changes. Bloggers are as much part of modern media as any print or digital journalist. These same people are trying to say Hager is a journalist when he has written a book –I thought book writers were authors.

    Your examples of misquoting show why journalists always rank near the bottom end of the “most trust professions” list when they are polled.

    If there is anything in the argument of “public interest” then I think that part of the law needs to be looked and reviewed.

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  46. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    Nookin….
    Excellent stuff, quite agree.

    In my post yesterday on Kiwiblog changes I made the following points:

    ” … The problem is that blogs are part of the media as it is in 2014. Only the fools fighting a rear guard action in the MSM (mainly print) believe that the word refers to them alone. Over the past two hundred years the media has been in a state of continuous evolution, now having reached a point where the print version might be in death throes. Why? Because the internet has made, no has brought about changes, that senior (as in age) folks could never have anticipated.

    “To summarise [the evolution] without going in to detail or back to Waterloo or the Crimea – Radio grew out of the advances in telegraphy, and this facilitated media reporting of the Great War. TV came along between the wars, but was never really a WW2 player, and was secondary to Movietone News and the like. There is no need for me to continue to outline the progression but I think my drift is clear. Now we have Facebook, Google, Bing, Twitter and more … and they all report news. Those outlets, bloggers, and the MSM together ARE the media, circa 2014. Did we anticipate this when Woodward and Bernstein (less than 60 years ago,) used Deep Throat to start a chain reaction which brought down a US President??? No.

    So what is the problem, and how to fix?

    As The Outside The Beltway Group said in January 2012:
    “The Press Council could do with an overhaul, as could the Broadcasting Standards Authority (which in its present form is simply a throwback to the days following the New Zealand Broadcasting Service) so that they better reflect 2011-2012 . Tinkering may be in order, but we detect no voting-public demand for State intervention. There was a time in New Zealand when all radio news bulletins were subject to Government scrutiny (and editing). Once on that slippery slope (again) it is devilishly hard to stop.
    “So, how are the New Zealand media to improve their game? It is outside the scope of this document to suggest the ways, even if that were possible, but up their game they must. Otherwise their businesses will eventually fail and be replaced by new players who have solved the problem.

    “We make these points to emphasise the importance of the media in the community’s affairs. If they are indeed the “Fourth Estate”, they too must change and grow when the turmoil we are seeing internationally, (and which we expect to dominate public and private affairs ) will in 2012, affect the life and prospects of every citizen in every country. “

    “So my “key” point David, is that in 2014 Blogs are indeed part of the media. A good voluntary code of ethics is important for all. But giving editorial moderation to any outside group dominated by existing vested media interests would be a very big mistake.

    One final point [Edit – observation]: Journalism is a coverall term. But there are no journalists. Journalism involves the crafts of reporting, editing, photography, computer operation (having replaced type setting), and writing. Writers are writers, not journalists. Reporters are not journalists (but the effete snobs among them continue to believe!), and so on. I wish they could remember that.

    And that brings me another form of effete snob – academics, overpaid, and lacking real world, and real work, experience.
    But to go there enters the undesirable world of ad hominem….
    :-)

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  47. Nookin (3,460 comments) says:

    Judith
    Please link me to any post where I have laughed at a deliberate distortion that went against the Greens or labour. If a story is deliberately distorted, regardless of the victim, it is dishonest and is of no help or benefit to anyone. Unfortunately, you won’t see that.
    Where have I said it is ok if the right do it?

    Answer the argument that I advanced. I have given you the links. The facts are there. Left/right politics do not come into it.

    You are illustrating typical dirty politics mentality. Avoid the issue. Ignore the facts. Fabricate another story and try to undermine an argument of someone with whom you disagree with that fabrication.

    Did you read my post yesterday where I expanded the argument? It’s on the thread relating to changes in Kiwiblog.

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  48. ross411 (867 comments) says:

    Black with a Vengeance (1,608 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:01 am
    Naming a street after someone she “had links with” instead of a Cantabrian?

    That is a bit rank though. Just another example of bad judgment.

    She really does need to be shown the door eh!

    You bet! Every negative utterance, and you trot them out at every opportunity, should be actioned at your direction in the way you want. It’s so simple. Why can’t anyone else see it? Maybe some more unsubstantiated claims painted in a negative way! Get on it!

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  49. ross411 (867 comments) says:

    Judith (8,191 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:16 am
    I doubt a journalist with too much ‘integrity’ would be very well read in today’s climate. Let’s face it, people like dirt – not just in politics, but about everything. They like to know what famous people are eating and who they are sleeping with, or even not sleeping with and why – when the public have such a thirst and there is money to be made by providing them with what they want, even if its just innuendo, then ones ‘standards’ can easily be forgotten or excused with the need to earn an income.

    Well said Judith. If what people watch is action and excitement, even if invented or contrived, then why settle for the boring detritus of everyday life.

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  50. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    Ross

    Must be in the” public interest” the secret donors of David Cunliffes slush trust fund.Also what sort of deal Russel Norman from Green Party did with Dotcom,when he had a few meetings with him.Surely the “public interest” is paramount in both examples here.

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  51. ross411 (867 comments) says:

    oldpark (112 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:30 am
    Ross

    Must be in the” public interest” the secret donors of David Cunliffes slush trust fund.Also what sort of deal Russel Norman from Green Part did with Dotcom,when he had a few meetings with him.Surely the “public interest” is paramount in both examples here.

    The “public interest” is nonsense. It’s whatever whoever wants something says it is, when they want something, even if when someone else wants that thing in some other way they don’t want, it wouldn’t therefore be in the public interest.

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  52. Nookin (3,460 comments) says:

    Well put, Flipper.

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  53. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nookin (3,136 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:27 am

    You will note that had a question mark after it. That was placed there because I don’t know, and was simply suggesting that maybe you had ‘laughed’ when you saw labour or the greens were on the receiving end.

    I am not illustrating anything of the sort Nookin. As I have said time and time again, I actually have proof, undisputable evidence that prove beyond any doubt that Collins was responsible for actions she has been accused of. So my interest is not about ‘how’ the material was received, that seems to be your focus, but rather what was actually done in the first instance. I do note however, that with the material I have, it places both sides in the same position of being in receipt of material they had no right to.

    ** In case you ask, I cannot and will not post that evidence here but it is being dealt with by proper sources and not through the media, as I refuse to feed the frenzy.

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  54. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    listening to zb this morning.. joyce & king on.. hosking asked king what she would be doing if labour win..

    minister of health.

    give me strength! what year is this???????? someone put that thing out to pasture!

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  55. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    This is looking ominous for National and it may be out of control.

    Steven Joyce has made allegations that Whaleoil is going to release information about Stuart Nash. Joyce says it is to balance things up. This should be called out for what it is.

    It is an out and out lie.

    Steven Joyce is a disgrace for suggesting this because he has lied to protect his own interests. Nash wrote two articles for the Truth and I talk to him occasionally like I do with many on the left. I know nothing at all about Stuart Nash doing anything other than he is a bloody good politician who scares National. Nash is winning a National seat because he is a far better politician that Steven Joyce ever will be, and Joyce is having a sook because he will never be as popular as Nash.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/joyce-making-shit-stuart-nash/

    @Whaledump is due to release information today about Slater and Stuart Nash.

    I’m not sure why Slater is raving about Nash, I’ve seen some of his blog posts and he doesn’t sound very impressive, for example Labour’s first 100 days – where the messaging needs to be

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  56. Komata (1,197 comments) says:

    oldpark

    Re: ‘Surely the “public interest” is paramount in both examples here’.

    But it isn’t; it’s only PUBLIC INTEREST’ when the Right (ie the NZ National party ) do it, never ever when the ‘left’ do such things. The ‘Left’ have this very strange sense of values which predicates that, although all and anything the ‘Right’ do is to be investigated with a view to creating as much damage as possible (and hopefully, even their ‘destruction’), when ‘their own’ do things which are similar (or even worse) it is quite acceptable and not worthy of comment. It is, if you will, very deliberate ‘Willfull Blindness’, and would seem to be very, very, deeply ingrained.

    Curiously, there never seems to be any ‘pangs of conscience’ amongst such groups about the consequences of their actions, which makes one wonder about the possibility that their consciences have become a ‘casualty’ of the ‘class war’?

    It’s an interesting possibility…

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  57. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ ross411 (283 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:30 am

    As I have often said on here Ross, regardless of which wing we are, most of us are reasonably intelligent people, who are, even if we don’t admit it, able to sort out the basics and know when we are being ‘influenced’ by the media.

    Sadly, a very large percentage of the community do not have that ability. Even less so with the standard of media presentations that have slowly dissolved the need to ‘think’ and analyse material presented to them. They quite simply believe what they are told. The dumbing down of society. They cry when they are told to (at the moment many are in ‘grief’ because they’ve been told to mourn the death of a Doctor on Shortland Street), they laugh at who they are told to laugh at (the media decides whether a movie is really deserving of being entertaining or not) and they think people are fools, when they are told to.

    If the right to vote was decided by IQ, the world would be a very different place! (yes I’ll get shot for saying that!)

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  58. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    PG…
    You are an “old woman” (with apologies to Judith}.

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  59. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ flipper (3,731 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:47 am

    In today’s world I’m blardy glad to be old – damn being young again and having to learn all those lessons! Nope, old is good for me!!

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  60. Nookin (3,460 comments) says:

    My post, Judith, was not about Collins and you cannot ask me to comment on or factor into any argument, any matter relating to which you refuse to disclose the details. I told you that the other day. You may have information that is damning and Collins may deserve the boot but your approach is akin to a child saying “anyway, I’ve got a secret and I’m not going to tell you!”

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  61. Ross12 (1,454 comments) says:

    PG WhaleOil has made a major gaff on this about Joyce. I heard the Hoskings/King/Joyce chat –it was clearly whaledump Joyce referred to.

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  62. Nukuleka (346 comments) says:

    Judith- poor you having no life as usual. I’ll permit just one wee response before I head out the door to live mine! If you had read my post carefully you would note that I made no mention whatsoever of Whaleoil or C Slater. Quite how you can extrapolate my opinions of Mr Slater from my post I am at a loss to say. Address issues raised and not the little voices that you hear constantly in your head. I fear that they are driving you further and further to distraction.

    Have you ever thought of using the same nom de plume on this site as you use when posting on The Standard?

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nukuleka (243 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    You are not the first person to accuse me of posting at the Standard. I do not, have not, and probably never will. I don’t even read there.

    I have quite a unique style, or so I’ve been told. So why don’t you scroll through the Standard (you are obviously very familiar with the place), and sort out just who you think I am there.

    As for a life, I now have a great life, at the moment I’m finishing something for a conference I’m going to on Friday for three days. Its got people from all over the world coming to it, so should be fantastic, and nope, nothing to do with politics! :-)

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  64. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    You aren’t old Judith, I’ve got over 25 years on you and I reckon I am still middle aged.

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  65. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    flipper – I don’t know what you are except way off the point.

    Don’t underestimate the damage a flopping whale might cause. He’s already pretty much wrecked Judith Collins’ political prospects. And he has a reputation for lashing out when things don’t go his way and can’t be trusted.

    He could easily take National down with him.

    Ross12 – he’s clearly rattled. That’s dangerous. When dirty and despicable turns rogue it may not be pretty.

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  66. Mark (1,489 comments) says:

    Genuine question – Is Collins going to survive until the election or will she resign.

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  67. macdee (43 comments) says:

    Is Judith Colin’s behaviour any worse than Trevor Mallard’s in relation to Erin Leigh, Collin’s actions five years ago, Mallard’s about seven years ago, if time means nothing and Cunliffe finds this sort of behaviour reprehensible, should Mallard be eligible to be Speaker if the left win the election?

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  68. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Hard to say Mark. Things turned worse for her last week and worser yesterday. The only thing that looks certain is it won’t get better for her.

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  69. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Mark (1,401 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 10:07 am
    Genuine question – Is Collins going to survive until the election …

    Umm, maybe ?

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  70. Lindsay Addie (1,589 comments) says:

    Mark,

    Re Collins, my gut feeling is Key won’t get rid of her from cabinet pre-election unless forced to. But that said If National remains the government she must be a serious candidate for demotion in a post election cabinet reshuffle.

    She is putting herself in positions too often where she is open to criticisms about her judgement.

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  71. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    Mark,
    Key said yesterday that Judith Collins would keep her job , claiming that she was the victim of a ” highly orchestrated Left-wing smear campaign”. He said she was on her last chance after what happened last time but, at the end of the day, she’s subject to a Left-wing smear campaign. He rejected suggestions she was now on her “last,last” warning.
    And what people have to remember is that what has come out in the past few days relates to something she did before her last warning, so it predates that warning.

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  72. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    What a glorious day. New Texas Hippie Coalition!

    Great road trip music.. or drinking music. Enjoy.

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  73. Peter (1,723 comments) says:

    Collins needs to do the decent thing for the country, and National, and step down. She got her free pass with Orivida. Now, she must take one for the team for this latest fiasco.

    I used to like her. She can redeem herself. But she must put our country and her party first, and step down.

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  74. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I don’t know how Key can catagorically say Collins will keep her job, unless he knows exactly what there is to come on her?

    There has to be some level where it becomes untenable to keep her on. Personally, as I have always said, she will drag him down, and he would be better to let her go – there are plenty of capable people to fill her shoes. I just cannot understand why Key is putting up with it – I realise he has to be seen to support his team members, but there comes a time when the rest of the team is being damaged, and he has to think of them.

    He wouldn’t be the first leader to have to let one go, for the greater good of what remains.

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  75. emmess (1,432 comments) says:

    The only criticism in Hager’s book that hasn’t completely fallen away is that Judith Collins pass on information to Cameron Slater about Stephen Pleasants, and that it has resulted in death threats.

    Now while not downplaying the seriousness of this, potentially anything can result in a death threat.
    So shouldn’t the person who actually made the death threats be the one held primarily responsible. What are the media doing to investigate who made the threats and what they were? Or do they not actually care?

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  76. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    I guess Judith is hanging on cause if she steps down she pretty much has no chance of taking over from key.

    I think she should take her medicine.

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  77. Jack5 (5,148 comments) says:

    The side that loses this year’s General Election might be the lucky one.

    Dairy and log prices diving, Europe’s economies, apart from Germany’s, performing poorly, China’s debt blowing out like a hydrogen bomb mushroom cloud, Australia’s commodity prices hit. Big black clouds port, starboard, and dead ahead.

    If Greens-Labour rule after the election, it will be three years of hell for NZ, but the end of the Greens for ever, and perhaps the rise of a new more rational party of the Left to represent families and workers, with the academics and an array of activists left clinging to the barely floating hulk of Labour.

    If Greens-Labour win, John Key will soon be transitioning to US citizenship ready to seek governorship of Hawaii, and Joyce will be preparing to head a resurgent, strong and economically energetic National Government that will replace the utterly rejected Greens-Labour at the following election.

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  78. mikenmild (11,677 comments) says:

    emmess
    Not at all concerned about a cabinet minister leaking personal details of a public servant?

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  79. Peter (1,723 comments) says:

    On blogs and the new media….

    There is no need for an aggregated newspaper. The aggregated newspaper was a compromise based on the available technology and the economics of distribution. The aggregated newspaper – sports, politics, real estate, weather, etc, all bundled into one “issue” – was an entity that tried to be all things to all people. That form was a result of the economics involved.

    These days, the economics of production and distribution don’t require bundling. That’s what the MSM doesn’t get. What they produce is unwanted. In fact, it was never really wanted. It was tolerated. i.e. few people ever read all of a newspaper. Most would pay attention only to the sections that interested them.

    People can now choose their channels.

    Bundling is dead.

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  80. Dead Earnest (160 comments) says:

    In the meantime Krim Dotom seems to have disappeared, he won’t talk to the media re his connection with Hagar. Laila has to front, perhaps shes scared Krim might let the truth slip out!

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  81. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    Dimes final observation for the day.. Whale Oil has gone feral lol

    Just had a look at his site. He’s losing it.

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  82. backster (2,184 comments) says:

    “Naming a street after someone she “had links with” instead of a Cantabrian?

    That is a bit rank though. Just another example of bad judgment.”

    I agree no street should be named after a Judge until we have a Ritchie McCaw Road, Ritchie McCaw Street, Ritchie McCaw Avenue and Ritchie McCaw Way

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  83. Peter (1,723 comments) says:

    I guess Judith is hanging on cause if she steps down she pretty much has no chance of taking over from key.

    She has no chance of taking over from Key, anyway. Not now. This is the time to put the nation and the party first. Else, she’s just a mechanism the LabGreens attack dogs can – rather effectively, as it turns out – use.

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  84. Jack5 (5,148 comments) says:

    Dead Earnest: How many SEALs do you reckon it would take to lift Dotcom into a raft for transition to a submarine?

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  85. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    If there is anything in the argument of “public interest” then I think that part of the law needs to be looked and reviewed.

    Public Interest. Something in which the public, the community at large, has some pecuniary interest, or some interest by which their legal rights or liabilities are affected. It does not mean anything so narrow as mere curiosity, or as the interests of the particular localities, which may be affected by the matters in question. Interest shared by citizens generally in affairs of local, state or national government.
    Black’s 5th edition

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  86. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    I don’t believe Hagar’s book will make much difference as to which party people will vote for. But I will be interested to see the next political poll. Usually I don’t take much notice of polls, it’s what happens on the day the counts. But the next one will be interesting.
    I rang a plumber yesterday and out of the blue he asked me what I thought of the latest shenanigans. I said it wouldn’t make any difference to the way I voted and he said not him, either. He said he was a National supporter, I just said I was apolitical.

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  87. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Key said yesterday that Judith Collins would keep her job , claiming that she was the victim of a ” highly orchestrated Left-wing smear campaign”

    “highly orchestrated smear campaign” : politically correct language
    “conspiracy” : tinfoil hat territory

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  88. polemic (460 comments) says:

    Jack5 What a brilliant idea.

    It is one thing that NZ has something credible in our massive Dept of Defence is an SAS who are well respected with the SEAL Community.

    The SAS could practice Un-revolutionising him by carting him off to a Rigid Inflatable and meeting a Submarine somewhere nearby .

    Nah that would be to boring.

    The public need to see that law has to be upheld by all.

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  89. emmess (1,432 comments) says:

    emmess
    Not at all concerned about a cabinet minister leaking personal details of a public servant?

    If WhaleOil publicized the contact details then yes.
    If not no.

    I am not clear on what the situation was. It was reported that Slater already knew the name.

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  90. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    dime (9,599 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 10:34 am

    To be fair, he is under a hell of a lot of pressure – much of his own doing, however, he would be best to step away from the keyboard for now.

    Someone pointed out to me yesterday, whaleoil is probably the biggest victim in all this – he is the puppet, and his nature has allowed him to be played from all sides by people with agendas. Many of whom are happy to disown him, now he’s been caught doing what they asked.

    Imagine if Whaleoil put all that energy in doing something positive for the world -

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  91. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    mikenmild (11,151 comments) says:

    August 20th, 2014 at 10:32 am

    emmess
    Not at all concerned about a cabinet minister leaking personal details of a public servant?
    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
    ****

    Naah…
    It is pay back for all the leaking lefto state employees.
    And public servants? Bullshit, milky.

    It is all much ado over a smart arse labour supporter in IA who leaked on W English’s private, but legitimate, matters, 5 years ago. Fuck off!

    En passant, why not ask your ultimate bosses in the SSC to re-start publication of the government employee list, complete with salaries. That cream covered book was ever so valuable in determining the pecking order etc within the mass of cardigans. But the PSA wold object, just like they did to get it stopped. But as you know, the official reason was to stop the private sector head-hunting at realistic salary levels.

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  92. Nostalgia-NZ (5,276 comments) says:

    It’s probably only because of WO attack on the people in Canterbury that’s it’s difficult not to imagine that he actually shares something with them – uncertainty. Although, hopefully it is receding now, the Cantabs have faced years of wondering when the next quake might strike. Most have chosen to live with that – possibly accepting that there is no control over nature. In the last week however, some of that uncertainty has shifted, at least in part, to Auckland to what could also possibly be called a ‘natural’ event. It’s hard not to accept that Ministers of The Crown must not have thought that there would be consequences caused by ‘leaking.’ That’s exactly what has happened, apparently 7 years of emails fallen into the hands of someone and already, no doubt, copied many times over. There is no turning back from that for those that have been involved, but there is the chance however for the next Government, along with the support of Parliament to clean up ‘leaking’ and hopefully something practical and worthwhile will have emerged from all this.

    Spare a thought however, that while there are prominent names among the discussion now, there are also ‘lesser’ people whose lives have been also been affected. Some of those may be blackmailed, or will have been blackmailed in the past, plenty (as we have seen) will have been threatened or worse. On that basis, and looking forward to Parliament creating Legislation or safe guards to prevent (or at least try to prevent) the same happening in the future – people are going to have to ask if those that have misused the public trust should have any right to take part in putting in place such a remedy, or indeed to take part in future Government. This is a consideration for all politicians and all political parties because none possibly are above what has happened, but on the other hand the bloody lot of them owe it to the public to clean up their act as elected representatives of the public. Some of what has come out, the language and the contempt for others, is gangland type language from people who by their comments have little respect for themselves let alone others – seeing all the world as an enemy or potential enemy. Time for the good guys (and gals) to kick the ‘bad uns’ to touch before respect for all of them is lost.

    I’ll close on this with a comment about Bill English. I’ve had the utmost admiration for him for a long time as I’m sure have many others. In the paranoia of the last little while following the ‘dry’ quake that has manifested itself in a book, some have pointedly mentioned English to me as not being the person I thought he was. I guess it would be easy to swallow rumour right now, even if some of it might be disappointing. So, rightly or wrongly (because I haven’t decided to read THAT book at this stage) I stuck with my opinion of BE. If he had fooled me and others, he did so again yesterday with his comments that it wasn’t ‘his style’ when referring to ‘leaking.’ I’m not a gambler but I’d bet on that.

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  93. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Richard Harman ‏@RMAHarman

    In Feb 2012 Whale’s mate Lusk said National could only clean out the wets in its senior ranks if it was ppred to lose an election.

    Is Joyce a targeted wet? He is often mentioned alongside Judith Collins as future leader potential.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/joyce-making-shit-stuart-nash/
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/joyce-still-making-shit/

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  94. Puzzled in Ekatahuna (346 comments) says:

    • How many Orivieda indiscretions and Cameron Slater emails equal a “What is happening” phone call to the police on the behalf of a constituent?

    “We are educating him, but he is the product of a sexist culture which we need to remedy. He is completely open to being educated.”
    – Dr Pani Farvid, an Iranian-born psychologist at AUT, the Internet Party’s gender issues spokeswoman speaking of Kim Dotcom, the Internet Party’s “visionary” – the originator of future thinking that is wise and imaginative.

    • ‘Teapot Tapes’ cop to look at Slater complaint –
    Shit!! … is it going to take that long?

    • When Hager the Horrible said Police should forget raiding him because he has sent the email evidence back to the source, then claimed that same source was anonymous to him, where did he send the emails to?

    • Does the Hacker now have in his hands the material Cameron Slater threatend to release on Dotcom in his ‘not a bombshell, but B-52 carpet-bombing’ promise?

    • As Cunliffe contemplated having lunch with the Queenstown Man With No Name, did he not consider that someone, in fact just anyone, would see them and put one and one together and get three? – as exactly did happen.

    • So was Cunliffe’s curiosity as to what the Man With No Name wanted – to perhaps make a donation to Labour – was that curiosity, despite the obvious inevitable ethical fallout, much different to those who looked at Labour’s website when Labour’s stupid computer illiterates “left the backdoor open”?

    • Bloggers who have no contact with Cunliffe
    One of his closest advisers (priming him for the televised debates) Polity blogger Rob Salmond.
    Greg Presland, a lawyer friend involved in setting up his leadership fund trust – or secret six month loan, after the cash was returned – blogs as MickeySavage  at The Standard
    and the three Standard bloggers inside the leaders office

    • … to stand trial in the US, where he faces up to 88 years in jail – The Guardian
    another point which should disqualify Dotcom from being in Parliament – or New Zealand.

    • How does National’s campaign manager, Steven Joyce, know what Whaledump is going to do next?

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  95. doggone7 (819 comments) says:

    IGM: “Campbell has …gone from gutter trawling to absolute sewer tactics, and the sleeze, lies, deception, and innuendo…”

    I did not see the programme/s you speak of. Could you please list some of the sleaze, the lies, the deception and innuendos which have prompted your post. Thank you.

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  96. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    • How does National’s campaign manager, Steven Joyce, know what Whaledump is going to do next?

    He could have read it in multiple media reports like I have.

    Or it could be part of a complex plot.

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  97. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    A plot it appears to be, the game continues.

    Whaledump @whaledump

    trololololol! wtf?? I don’t have anything on Nash. Somebody is black opsing somebody.

    WO v me? WO v Joyce? Joyce v me? WO v Nash? @robhosking v all? lolololololol

    An anonymous takeover of the election campaign.

    This is truly some next level black ops shit.

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  98. Ross12 (1,454 comments) says:

    On the Hosking / Joyce / King chat this morning on ZB Joyce made a comment that Labour and the Greens have not got together to align their policies so people can clearly what will happen if they get in power. I think it was a good comment ( although I’m not sure why he would give them helpful hints).
    Now we have the Greens coming out with –we will have bigger surplus than National. Fair enough they have had a calculator out but these are the same people who 6mths ago were ranting about how having a surplus was not important. But more importantly Norman is presupposing that he will get ALL his economic ideas in place so they can get this surplus. So Norman must think the Greens will out vote Labour ( Tui ad !!!) and he will not put any of Labour’s spending ideas in place which could conflict with the Greens way to get a surplus.
    In summary –Norman is in lalala land !!

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  99. Monique Angel (295 comments) says:

    When did Whaleoil attack Canterbury? There was no violence. He just wrote a colorful opinion on a popular blog. It’s all a load of bullshit IMHO. Hager wrote a book that will sell two more copies to Campbell Live staff before it is pulped. Big Deal. Saddest aspect is bloggers taking it all on board. As Red said. It’s like Jonestown over on WO.

    I got moderated off for WO for Potty Mouth recently.
    Can’t believe it myself. I’m back on the edgier Kiwiblog until I can be bothered begging for commenting privileges on WO. Which will be never as I would have to admit doing wrong to some random.
    Never say sorry or revisit your actions. It’s an admission of liability and results in demotion as Pack Leader. You may initially get your tummy tickled but eventually you end up licking someone else’s balls.

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  100. kowtow (8,753 comments) says:

    Absolutly fucken bonkers.And this from a suposedly Conservative Govt.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11043785/Bullying-husbands-face-jail-under-new-proposals-by-Theresa-May.html

    “E ,Jeff,give us ‘undred quid for new pairra shoes”

    “Er Sal,can’t afford em”

    Knock ,knock. “You’re nicked mate”

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  101. Yoza (1,906 comments) says:

    I love the “It’s all part of an orchestrated left-wing smear campaign.” Kind of like how everyone thought Jack the Ripper was a good guy before the press ran a smear campaign against him by discussing what he did to his victims.

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  102. stephieboy (3,383 comments) says:

    An earlier post by EAD links the recent wave of anti Semitism to Islam. No surprises there and is endemic in the Middle East and in Western Europe .
    But do remember the left in Europe and increasingly elsewhere do have a lot to answer for in this regard ,

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100281615/left-wing-anti-semitism-is-anything-but-a-new-phenomenon/ r,

    Let me add conspiracy theorists as well and its often hard to tell the difference between the many on the left and tin foil hatters.

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  103. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    What will the former hooker say when the National Party campaign ad comes on – 8 strokes was enough to get the whale to blow?

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  104. kowtow (8,753 comments) says:

    The American and indeed world MSM are in a frenzy over the shooting of a robber in the USA.

    Now it emerges an American journalist who went to Syria to report on the brutality of the Assad regime has been beheaded ,on camera, by a hooded Muslim speaking English with an English accent.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/islamic-state-beheads-us-journalist-james-foley-in-video

    Now is the chance for the American and world media to stand up for one of their own and give continuous ,ongoing and indepth reporting on the evils of ISIS………

    ……..I’m not going to hold my breath as the perpetrators are not Israeli or “racist” white cops.

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  105. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    Yoza,
    That’s politics. Cunliffe would have said the same thing if it was their members that Hagar was dissing.

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  106. Fletch (6,488 comments) says:

    The Nats first TV commercial for 2014 –

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  107. stephieboy (3,383 comments) says:

    kotow, you beat me to the post with the vile execution of James Foley by the vile ISSIS with another Time correspondent possibly facing a similar fate ,

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/19/world/meast/isis-james-foley/

    Rather sad that you’ve sought to link the event with what is happening in Ferguson.

    The two are entirely unrelated.

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  108. mister nui (1,030 comments) says:

    I just got around to watching the “hotseat” interview with ACT leader Jamie Whyte. Overall some very well reasoned debate.

    But, Rachel fucking Smalley; the woman is an imbecile. She clearly doesn’t like ACT or Whyte and certainly let that show, replete with snide comments.

    Because she is too thick to understand or think through ACT policy, she just uses the typical leftist approach of sneer and denigrate. Not worthy of being given the title of “media”, although maybe she would be a good host of My Kitchen Rules, or something equally inane.

    I’m guessing that all her lard went to her brain, rather than her ass.

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  109. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    “Someone pointed out to me yesterday, whaleoil is probably the biggest victim in all this – he is the puppet, and his nature has allowed him to be played from all sides by people with agendas”

    yep! struth, agreeing with judith :D

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  110. kowtow (8,753 comments) says:

    “The two are entirely unrelated.”

    The media are players in the war against the west. They are related.

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  111. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    I thought it might be timely to remind folks of this excellent post yesterday:

    *** ” Bogusnews (449 comments) says:

    August 19th, 2014 at 6:14 am

    I heard Stephen Franks talking on Radio live a few days ago about Hager. He commented that he hadn’t read his latest book after reading the Hollow men. Apparently, Hager had taken emails from Franks, that had been separated in time by months or years and sewn them together as a continuous narrative. This completely distorted what Franks had to say.

    I trust nothing that Hager says. This latest revelation is absolutely no surprise”

    The emphasis is mine!

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  112. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Casting for Moby Dick, the tale of a quest for a 4 term government

    Captain Ahab – played by John Key
    his wife Jezebel – played by Judith Collins
    and the whale she is fond of – played by Cameron Slater
    the head of Whaleoil Canneries Ltd – played by Steven Joyce

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  113. kowtow (8,753 comments) says:

    Instead of the eight maybe they should have used this?

    http://www.albany.asn.au/whale%20watching/harponing%20whales%20albany.jpg

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  114. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    dime
    I very much doubt that Slater sees himself as a puppet. From today’s Dompost,
    As Cameron Slater has written ” If you wrestle with pigs …two things are certain- one is that you will get dirty and the second is that the pig,me, enjoys it. ”
    One of his sources , former Beehive staffer Jason Ede, has learned that the hard way. After being outed by Nicky Hager as a Slater source , Ede has gone to ground and Slater is unimpressed. The controversial blogger reportedly said Ede was “gutless” and “squeamish” for not fronting up.

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  115. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    ”If you wrestle with pigs …two things are certain- one is that you will get dirty and the second is that the pig, me, enjoys it.”

    Not sure he’s enjoying it so much now many have realised the bacon is tainted. Expect more cold shouldering.

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  116. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    Wouldn’t it be a bit of a laugh if after all this hoo-ha the next polls show National further in front than they are now.

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  117. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    Pete ,
    If I was the sort of blogger he is I reckon I would be loving it.
    It would be like being a pig into the proverbial.

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  118. Jim Peters (10 comments) says:

    mister nui – I am glad someone else thought Rachel Smalley was in poor form.
    Her attitude and body language spoke volumes. The few times she spoke, the comments were glib. By the end, my impression was she was intimidated by or intensely disliked Jamie Whyte.

    I was impressed at how Toby Manhire performed. He did not let any prejudice shine through, unlike Rachel.

    I rate Whyte 6 out of 10 for his performance. Great intellect, appreciated his candor but he needs to break out of the philosopher role, get to the point quicker and reinforce it. Rachel clearly did not understand the answers.

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  119. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    muggins – I’m sure he has enjoyed some of it, but he’s lost control and reacting, not always very well. And he’s uncertain what will come out next. He might feign brave but I doubt he’s enjoying it – he’s often talked about playing the long game but he’s now facing losing the big one. Collins has already lost most of her prospects, it’s probably only the campaign that has saved her from losing everything.

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  120. stephieboy (3,383 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    “The media are players in the war against the west. They are related.”

    In what ways precisely.?

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  121. mister nui (1,030 comments) says:

    Jim Peters, I didn’t think Whyte was too much of a Philosopher, in that discussion. I liked the way he put across the policies in a well reasoned and intellectual way.

    The media, due to most of them being thick as pigshit, has dumbed down the debate in this country and I think a healthy dose of more intellectualism doesn’t go amiss. Most Kiwis are smart and can think for themselves, despite what the elites in the media think – they have this inane belief, just like the greens, that they know best and what is right for everyone.

    Well, let me tell you lot in the media something; We’re actually smarter than you. We’re out there building productive enterprises, developing business, putting our smarts to use to build a better society, rather than angrily bashing away at a keyboard because your 3rd rate journalism course from an unknown uni at the ass-end of the world has left you stuck in a dead-end job with no future prospects.

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  122. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Duncan Garner claims that Judith Collins has resigned. There’s some claims its a joke but there’s a real enough looking letter. Could be a fake.

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Judith-Collins-resigns—really/tabid/674/articleID/52713/Default.aspx

    If fake it’s very poor taste.

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  123. Komata (1,197 comments) says:

    With language like that? Somehow I doubt it. One has to wonder though, IF it is true, where did GARNER get a copy of the document?

    And, if its ‘fake’ then perhaps Garner should now be facing forgery charges…

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  124. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    ‏@JudithCollinsMP

    Story from Duncan Garner quite wrong. Presumably, he’s the victim of a hoax.

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  125. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    Obvious fake. The difference in resolution between the letterhead and the text shouldn’t fool anyone…

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  126. thedavincimode (6,869 comments) says:

    Presumably, he’s the victim of a hoax.

    Just as Key was in thinking that you might have enough common sense to be a Minster Judith.

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  127. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    Collins using the word shitstorm in that fake resignation was a dead give-away. I reckon a three year old would have known that.

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  128. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    The language was all wrong – Judith Collins would not speak like that in a letter.

    I reckon its a bullshit forgery, and probably not Garner.

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  129. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Pete George says:

    “If fake it’s very poor taste….”

    Like this?

    Hacking computers and stealing private emails of journalists
    Stealing laptops and cell phones
    Destroying and defacing billboards
    burning effigies of members of parliament.
    Anti -Semitism
    Hacking computers and stealing private emails of members of parliament.
    Hacking computers and stealing private emails of spouses of members of parliament.
    Using proxies to attack policies and members of parliament.
    Encouraging mob behaviour and drunken louts shouting “F*ck John Key”
    Hacking computers and stealing private emails of members of parliament and journalists and then publishing them out of context and without right of reply.

    Put it on the list.

    Funny how the MSM pretends Dirty Politics is a ‘right-wing’ thing……..

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  130. mikenmild (11,677 comments) says:

    The headline says ‘written by Duncan Garner’. Isn’t that clear enough?

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  131. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Duncan Garner was portraying a new honesty and accountability moment that may never arrive.

    It’s sad when due accountability now reads like satire published by the Civilian.

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  132. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    They have changed the headline, it said “Judith Collins Resigns – Really?’ earlier.

    http://yournz.org/2014/08/20/hoax-collins-resgination/

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  133. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    The latest Roy Morgan polls has National up slightly and Labour down slightly.

    National 48% (up 2%)
    Maori Party 1% (down 0.5%)
    Act NZ 0.5% (unchanged)
    United Future 0.5% (unchanged)
    Labour 27.5% (down 2.5%)
    Greens 11.5% (down 0.5%)
    NZ First 6.5% (up 1.5%
    Internet-Mana Party 2.5% (unchanged)
    Conservative Party of NZ is 1% (unchanged)
    Independent/ Others 1% (unchanged).

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5747-roy-morgan-new-zealand-voting-intention-august-20-2014-201408200128

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  134. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    Pete,
    In your opinion Slater has lost control.
    In your opinion Collins has lost most of her prospects.
    In your opinion it is only the campaign that saved her.
    Now I don’t reckon Slater has lost control, to me he has always been out of control. That’s my opinion.
    If you mean Collins has lost any slim chance she might have had of being Prime Minister when Key steps down, then I am inclined to agree with you.
    In my opinion I don’t believe it was the campaign that saved her.
    Key had given her a last warning, but what has just come out predated that.
    Key couldn’t say , Look, I gave you a last warning and now this happens, so you are going to have to resign ,
    because her obvious reply would be But what has just come out predates that warning.
    If she had leaked that info [and there is some confusion as to what it was that she is supposed to have leaked] after that last warning then she might have been in trouble. But she didn’t and she isn’t.
    That’s my opinion .

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  135. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    ….”Support for the Conservative Party of NZ is 1% (unchanged)”…..

    Better throw another million in the pot Colin…..the punters are not getting the message. :)

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  136. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    Some polls show the Conservatives at c3% and NZF also below 5%.

    Can they both rise together to over 5%?

    Or will two half baked half risen loaves both fall short.

    Or in ones best wildlife presenter voice – the dominant animal is not ready to give up the harem baubles and will butt the challenger away while it still has the strength. But will this be the last time it will be able to do this?

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  137. Fletch (6,488 comments) says:

    Garner has responded to Collins’ tweet saying it was an attempt at satire.

    @JudithCollinsMP It’s called satire, Judith. Not dirt.

    — Duncan Garner (@Garner_Live) August 20, 2014

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10403745/Fake-Judith-Collins-resignation-shocks

    Pretty bad, really, for someone who is supposed to be a journalist.

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  138. Milburn35 (48 comments) says:

    I find it incredible that Slater didn’t have his Emails backed up prior to his computer crashing. He may have back up copies. If he has it would be interesting to know what emails he received from the left and which ones would be damming to them if published.

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  139. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Will David Bain ever get compo from this govt NAH why a nasty bottle blond with a whale as a best friend,and communist china as her second best friend.Wait David shes gone tucker after the election and a brighter minister will review the case.A thought dont put nasty bitches in power anywhere

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  140. thedavincimode (6,869 comments) says:

    Highly unlikely lurcher; but not for the reasons that you suggest.

    The test will be innocent on the balance of probabilities, and therein is the real problem for him. The decision would only be rubber stamped by Collins/cabinet after someone rather more competent than binnie the ninny has opined on the matter.

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  141. graham (2,346 comments) says:

    Fletch at 4:03 pm:

    From the Stuff story it would also appear that Judith Collins tweeted “Story from Duncan Garner quite wrong. Presumably, he’s the victim of a hoax.” A fairly innocuous statement.

    Then Duncan Garner responds “It’s called satire, Judith. Not dirt.”

    Interesting that Garner is throwing around the whole “It’s not dirt, it’s not nasty, sheesh don’t get offended” rhetoric in response to Collins’ tweet that never mentioned or even hinted at such a thing!

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  142. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    lurcher1948 (99 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    Can I suggest that it is the N. B. blonde’s actions and absence of integrity which will make it impossible for the compensation bid not to fail?

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  143. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    Abandon ship…. abandon ship…. abandon ship….
    Mayday ..mayday…Mayday…

    The labour/red melon ship is sinking…..

    **** “National (48%) holds its lead over Labour/ Greens (39%) as ‘Dirty Politics’ revelations provide a new challenge for PM John Key’s leadership. NZ First surge to 6.5% – highest support since September 2013.
    August 20 2014
    Finding No: 5747
    Topic: Federal Poll Public Opinion…”
    Roy Morgan, the one the left loves, poll out today…. August 20.

    Will TVNZ and TV3 carry it? The hell they will………… bastards, all.

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  144. goldnkiwi (1,514 comments) says:

    Nice to see that ‘Yes, Minister’ is going to be rerun during the run up to the election lol ;)

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  145. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    Judith
    You know that compensation claim, if it is put forward again, will fail , no matter who is the Minister of Justice. It will fail because it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that Bain lied on oath at the trial and he lied to Justice Binnie. And not just about those glasses.
    If National get elected and if Judith Collins is replaced by someone else you can rest assured that person will be sent all the relevant information, even though it may have already have been passed on to that person by Judith Collins.

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  146. ShawnLH (5,682 comments) says:

    “Will David Bain ever get compo from this govt”

    Who cares? He may have been released, but that does not mean he is innocent. The fact is we don’t know. Compensation should only be paid out when it can be proved that a person was innocent.

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  147. ShawnLH (5,682 comments) says:

    “National was up two percentage point to 48% from the last poll in late July, while support for Labour was down 2.5 points to 27.5% with the Greens down 0.5 points to 11.5%. A combined total for them of 39%.

    National’s rise in support comes with the latest NZ Roy Morgan Government Confidence Rating rising to 139pts (up 4pts) with 63.5% (up 3.5%) of New Zealanders saying New Zealand is ‘heading in the right direction’ compared to 24.5% (down 0.5%) that say New Zealand is ‘heading in the wrong direction’.”

    Looking good for National, looking dire for Labour/Greens. :)

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  148. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    davinci-tarawera…

    I am disappointed in you.

    I thort you more intelligent, and able to read source material without being subverted by the likes of the sisters, the CL/Police legal-industrial complex, and the “porno judge”, who said Binnie might have reached the same conclusion had he followed Fisher’s academic brain storm – for Fisher, a get out of jail free card, silly fool that he is. And since dirty politics is topical, I presume you are aware of the other matters.

    “binnie the ninny” ?

    I would happily give you a tutorial, but DPF might object to the length of the post, so an outline of the process and a list of key documents.

    So, Davinci…. ….

    Understand that there was an agreed process put in place by Simon Power who, on MoJ advice, selected Binnie because of his international standing in Canada and with the ICoJ, and experience in such matters (he was assisted by two Akld U law profs).

    The Bain team agreed to accept the independent umpire’s decision – whatever the outcome.

    Ergo…..
    1. Read Binnie’s statement to media on Collins.
    2. Read Binnie’s response to Fisher, and read his report – order doesn’t matter.
    3. By all means, if you must, read Fisher and the CL/Poillie nonsense. It will not add to your understanding of the case. It will, however, show what a very sick bunch they are — and spending millions of our dollars in pursuit /defence of their egos.

    Now. Be a good fellow. Take your meds, davinni….
    Go to the lake, and take time out, and read … only a few more weeks till trout time :-).
    Cheers
    F

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  149. mikenmild (11,677 comments) says:

    Piss off Bainiacs. You’ve got your own thread. Stay quarantined there.

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  150. ShawnLH (5,682 comments) says:

    If Judith Collins should resign, so should Trevor Mallard. National should remind Labour of their own record on political interference with the PSA.

    “The woman who accused Labour MP Trevor Mallard and a top public servant of destroying her reputation has won an appeal to the Supreme Court.

    In 2007, whistleblower Erin Leigh accused Mallard, then Environment Minister, of defamation.

    This was after she raised questions about political interference and alleged former minister David Parker pushed for Clare Curran to be appointed to a communications role with the Ministry.

    All three Labour members involved are currently sitting Members of Parliament.

    At the time Mallard was asked an oral question on the matter in Parliament and spoke negatively about Leigh.

    He told the House she had “repeated competence issues” and said Curran had been appointed to “fix up the mess”.

    The Ministry’s then Deputy Secretary Lindsay Gow had been appointed to provide Mallard with written and oral briefings before he answered the question.

    Unable to sue Mallard, who was protected by parliamentary privilege, Leigh subsequently sued Gow for defamation.

    Gow contended that his written and oral communications to the minister were also covered by absolute privilege and that the claims should therefore be struck out.

    But the High Court, Court of Appeal, and now Supreme Court ruled that it was a matter of qualified, not absolute, privilege.”

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/09/erin_leigh_wins_in_supreme_court.html

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  151. mikenmild (11,677 comments) says:

    How are those two cases remotely similar? Mallard made some shabby allegations in the House – they were refuted. Collins leaked personal details to a blogger.

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  152. ShawnLH (5,682 comments) says:

    Mike, both involve political interference in the PSA.

    Would have though that was obvious.

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  153. mikenmild (11,677 comments) says:

    What has either case got to do with the PSA?

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  154. ShawnLH (5,682 comments) says:

    Anyway I am very busy at the moment with work so no time for the extended back and forth.

    Saw a truck smashed by a train on the way to Temuka! Looked like something out of a movie.

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  155. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Just watched our PM Key on tv3 news,the answer to most questions,was UM,maybe,why,UM UM but his eyes said everything,flickering everywhere flicker flicker,Collins you are fucked,shonkey isnt a happy chappy and you collins are not in his happy place

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  156. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    You may be a true Conservative if:

    1) You love Jesus and Jesus loves you & you just know deep down in your tummy that Jesus shares your hatred of AIDS victims, homosexuals & progs.

    2) You obsessively impose your own morality upon others.

    3) You consider that a woman can’t be trusted with decisions about her own body but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

    4) You believe that the National Party should limit itself to the ideals espoused in its founding document which include banning gay marriages, regulating indecent content on the Internet & taking guidance on the Nation’s morals from religious busy-bodies.

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  157. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    flipper, never mind the results don’t accord with reality. I understand. It’s called bias. You can read about confirmation bias and motivated reasoning on Wikipedia.

    Forget the legal argy-bargy. Lawyers don’t want to find the truth, they want to win.

    Don’t bother with medication either, it won’t ease the pain.

    Harden up. Take it on the chin. Bob.

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  158. mikenmild (11,677 comments) says:

    Anyone we know, nasska?

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  159. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    Sort of reminded me of someone Mike but I just can’t put my finger on who it would be. :)

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  160. stigie (1,311 comments) says:

    Hang on Nasska, you forgot cowards and commies ?

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  161. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    But if you’re still not sure whether a Tardis journey back to the 50’s is right for you, do……

    1) You think that government should get out of your life but want the police to stop your neighbour from growing a couple of marijuana plants.

    2) You believe something is true because it came out of your mouth.

    3) You believe that everyone else should hold the same moralistic, political views as you & by God, you’re going to see to it that they do!

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  162. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    flipper
    Read Guest’s letter to Judith Collins re Binnie’s report where he accuses Binnie, quite correctly, in my opinion, of having tunnel vision. Guest does not believe David Bain is innocent, I mean why would he. Bain told Guest ,with his co-counsel present that he had been wearing the glasses in evidence to watch TV at around 8-8.30 on the Sunday night prior. Guest told him he was on no account to volunteer that information, but that if he was cross-examined about those glasses he must tell the truth. He was cross-examined about those glasses and said he hadn’t seen them for over a year. At the next recess Guest approached Wright the Crown Prosecutor and told him Bain had lied about the glasses. Because the trial was almost over Wright decided to take no action.
    Binnie did not even see fit to interview Guest. What an incredible error of judgement by an international jurist.

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  163. mikenmild (11,677 comments) says:

    FFS – get back to the Bain thread.

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  164. tom hunter (5,078 comments) says:

    Maybe we’re looking at a “teachable moment” for DPF to apply his new-found standards.

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  165. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    MoggieManiac • 3 hours ago
    I have not read anything off of whaledump, and I will not be reading anything;
    and I’m not going to read the book [I wouldn’t bother even if it was free]

    Hacking is illegal and I’m not going to give them any oxygen.
    OK, nobody but myself will know what I do and don’t do – but I would know that I had crossed my line.

    An example of a tunnel viewpoint from whales blog,thick with a closed mind

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  166. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    muggins (3,079 comments) says:

    August 20th, 2014 at 6:33 pm

    ****&

    Everyone has seen it.

    It is garbage. And madam, you know that. So shut up.

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  167. OneTrack (3,218 comments) says:

    re KDC – ” The public need to see that law has to be upheld by all.”

    All I see is the “law” racing with a glacier. And the glacier is winning.

    Raises the question, is this because of activist judges stretching it out in the hope they get a compliant Minister of Justice in September. Or are they paid by the hour.

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  168. publicwatchdog (2,803 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers – good evening :)

    Concerned about the following comments allegedly made by Cathy Odgers, (‘Cactus Kate’) as exposed in Nicky Hager’s
    ‘Dirty Politics’? (Pg 91 – 92)
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    In 2013 I helped to research and write an international study about people using tax havens, an industry in which Cathy Odgers is a lawyer. She wrote an attack post about it for the Whale Oil blog and sent the following e-mail to David Farrar, Cameron Slater and Mathew Hooton.

    To Farrar, Slater, Hooton: Make sure when Cam finds it
    that you subtly repost where Hager lives. I’ve done a post
    for Saturday on whale blog as can’t run myself as too close
    to work. The leaks he is involved with include tens of
    thousands of rich Chinese. Mainland and HK.

    It would be a disaster if they all knew where he lived.

    He may even need police protection.

    I’ve spent all day telling clients it is not our company but have
    asked a few how they would react if they knew a bit about the
    people publishing the material.

    I was delighted to assist with the full details for Mr Hager.

    Those Chinese can be very vicious when they lose face.

    … Chop chop for Nicky.

    Shame Russians don’t seem affected but our Chinese friends
    need a helping hand. 19

    19 Cathy Odgers, ‘Hager,’ email to David Farrar, Cameron Slater and Mathew Hooton, 5 April 2013.

    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    A) Evidence Cathy Odgers is a lawyer

    http://www.lawsociety.org.nz/for-the-community/search-register-of-lawyers/lawyer-details?pi=MjQwMTE=

    Lawyer Details
    Name:Ms Catherine Michelle Odgers Preferred name:Cathy

    Organisation contact details

    Organisation:The GCSL Group of Companies Limited

    Position:In-house Lawyer
    Postal Address:The GCSL Group of Companies Limited
    Suite 701
    Tung Hip Commercial Building
    244-248 Des Voeux Road Central
    Hong Kong

    Telephone:+852 9681 6311Fax:+852 3966 1888

    Regulatory details
    Practising Certificate
    Type:Barrister & Solicitor
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    B) Laws covering NZ lawyers

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2008/0214/latest/DLM1437811.html?search=ts_regulation_lawyers

    Chapter 2

    Rule of law and administration of justice

    2A lawyer is obliged to uphold the rule of law and to facilitate the administration of justice.

    Threats

    2.7 A lawyer must not threaten, expressly or by implication, to make any accusation against a person or to disclose something about any person for any improper purpose.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    3) How to make a complaint to the Law Society about the conduct of a lawyer:

    http://www.lawsociety.org.nz/for-the-community/lawyers-complaints-service

    Contact the Lawyers Complaints Service:
    The Lawyers Complaints Service will provide you with assistance and information in relation to complaints. This includes information about your rights and options if you are unsure whether you have grounds for making a complaint.

    You can contact the Lawyers Complaints service on 0800 261 801 or by emailing complaints@lawsociety.org.nz.

    Advise us of your concern: use the online Concerns Form, and a Legal Standards Officer will ring to talk to you.

    Lawyers Complaint Service brochure: Download the brochure (PDF) or you can request a copy by phoning 0800 261 801 or emailing us oncomplaints@lawsociety.org.nz.

    Complaint Form: If you decide to make a complaint, you can download the Complaint Form (PDF).

    You can also request a copy by phoning 0800 261 801 or emailing us oncomplaints@lawsociety.org.nz.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

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  169. OneTrack (3,218 comments) says:

    Ross12 – “Joyce made a comment that Labour and the Greens have not got together to align their policies so people can clearly what will happen if they get in power. I think it was a good comment ( although I’m not sure why he would give them helpful hints).”

    Maybe Joyce was suggesting any non-partisan news media out there ( if there is such a thing ) might think it would be a good idea to ask the Green-Labour coalition exactly that question. Yeah, nah. That’s being silly isn’t it – lets talk about who was in the drawing room with the flash drive and cups of tea and ……

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  170. Fletch (6,488 comments) says:

    @nasska,

    You may be a true liberal if:

    1) You follow the god of your own choice as well as the opinions of those in society whose ideas line up with yours until the majority thought changes to something else (“evolves”), then you will follow that instead, as there is no fixed morality or right and wrong. Just what is popular at the moment.

    2) You obsessively impose your own morality upon others.

    3) You believe in a woman’s right to choose, but only if her choice is the same as yours. Women who don’t choose the same as you are wrong and must be railed against and loudly denounced.

    4) You believe any founding documents, morals, or laws, must change with popular opinion.

    5) You believe that everyone must genuflect at the alter of homosexuality and homosexual marriage. No one can hold the opinion that it is wrong, and those that do must be denied the right to speak, must be shunned, publicly shamed, and fired from their jobs – especially the religious.

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  171. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    Japanese biologists have discovered a new species of snail. Apparently they migrate by letting themselves be eaten by birds, and then they’re later shat out somewhere else.

    To my mind that still sounds more attractive than flying with Jetstar.

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  172. Keeping Stock (10,409 comments) says:

    Judith Collins announced the road in Christchurch’s justice precinct being named after Justice Robert Chambers in October last year. It reflects very poorly on senior Christchurch legal practitioners that they have been so opportunistic in criticising the Justice Minister a full TEN MONTHS later.

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  173. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ publicwatchdog (2,194 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    Very interesting and informative.
    It’s a big pity we don’t have a ‘Member of Parliament’ Society where one can make such a complaint about our Ministers that break similar rules. (Of course, first we’d have to set some rules!)

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  174. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock (10,161 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 8:25 pm

    Absolutely shocking, you are right. National supporters would never be so opportunistic and make the most of the right time to make an issue of something that would benefit them, like Goff being away or something like that.

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  175. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    Not true really Fletch…..the essential difference between you & me is that I don’t consider it is my business if you don’t marry a bloke, have an abortion or you do worship a Skypixie. Basically just do whatever blows your cassock up & enjoy life & it won’t bother me.

    But for some strange reason you seem to think that it is your mission in life to force me into following the mores of your sect.

    Worse still! If you can’t convince me to believe the crap you are prepared to compel my obedience by having your delusions incorporated into law via political pressure.

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  176. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ lurcher1948 (101 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 7:03 pm

    Hacking is illegal, and when it occurs and the offender caught there must be punishment. That is a definite.

    However, there is a certain amount of irony in this case.

    Slater justified his copying of data from the Labour system, using the excuse that they should have taken precautions and made it secure.

    Whaledump copied data from Whale Oil because his system was not secure enough to prevent it being accessed.

    So who is to blame – according to Slater it was Labour for not keeping their site secure. A big mistake that he felt justified him in copying the data, and releasing certain details about the site.

    Personally, ethically, there is no difference. Both have been slack to various degrees. The only difference is that one took a bit more effort than the other – the results however were still the same.

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  177. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I must be a non-Christian conservative nasska.

    I only shag ewe’s and never in the missionary position! :)

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  178. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    Said Flossie, out back of the shed,
    “That’s your lot, Johnny boy, ’till we wed.
    ‘Cause what we just did
    Could result in a kid,
    And besides, I’d prefer it in bed.

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  179. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    With the amount of time you seem to spend here Judith it’s hard to believe that your function at the upcoming major conference is other than that of tea lady or hat check girl! :)

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  180. Fletch (6,488 comments) says:

    naaska, only the culture and society you live in were founded on the “mores of that sect”. It wasn’t Communism, it wasn’t Islam, it wasn’t Sikhism or some other religion. it was Juedo/Christianity.

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  181. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    You’ve been saving that one for me nasska! :)

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  182. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (15,376 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 8:44 pm

    Really Johnboy? Why don’t you count up the amount of posts I’ve made today, and work out just how many minutes you think they might have taken me?

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  183. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    Well that’s okay Fletch….I’m not a Communist & I’m not into Islam or Sikhism either.

    I’m just a humble non believer who’s positive that we only get one life to live. Thus while I realise that we need rules to live by they should be liberal, secular & reflect the society we live in.

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  184. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    Dime just watched some show called Prison Families.

    It was about this piece of gutter trash and her “partner”. boyfriend i guess.

    Hes a convicted murderer who gets chucked back in jail for violating parole.

    Shes an ex-junkie skank whos already done a stratch and facing another one for assualting a cop.

    they moved to some small town where (and i quote) “we are doing really well down here”.

    one 5 year old and one new born.

    no jobs to speak of.

    i guess these are the angels the greens want to give another 60 bucks a week to cause dime doesnt pay his fair share.

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  185. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I don’t mean to criticise your work ethic Judith just remember all those important overseas delegates will get very upset if the glasses or cutlery show water stains or food particles! :)

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  186. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Johnboy (15,378 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    What makes you think I’m doing anything but attending the conference and listening to the speakers Johnboy?

    You seem to be making some big assumptions based on little information.

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  187. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Slater knew it was hacking:

    June 3, 2011
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:34am

    That website info will hit soon. Watch teh damage that ensues
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:34am

    I’ve been meaning to ask you!

    LOL

    when do you run it?
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:35am

    been working thru it all

    making videos

    was going to do it this week but goff is away

    far better to do it when the putz is back
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:35am

    probably over 3 gigs of stuff on it all compacted ?

    what are the vids of?
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:35am

    the most damaging is the 18000 emails

    and the Credit card transactions
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:35am

    fuck me, I hadn’t been that forensic myself

    this will be huge
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:36am

    got the whole of their email database
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:36am

    oh no

    LOL
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:36am

    plus the civicrm stuff…the backup weren’t encrypted…rebuilding it now
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:36am

    this is violence writ large

    could cause multiple heads to roll
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:36am

    i think some teaser videos of screenshots and stuff drip fed over a few days

    then drop the bomb say wed morning so general debate is awesome
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:37am

    unreal

    I knew there was heaps there, but I hadn’t actually leached it all

    Credit card info? That’s insane. Labour will be ruined
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:38am

    got tbeir donations for two months
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:38am

    no way
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:38am

    no wonder they are doing soc med stuff…they are broke]

    the privacy act breaches in the collation of the emails is massive
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:38am

    I’m sure Chaos and Mayhem ltd will find a way to use all this left wing online data
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:38am

    got First name, Last Name and email

    in 3 files

    main labour mail list
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:39am

    could set back the online left wing community for 3 years
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:39am

    aECE campaign supporters

    which is mostly teachers
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:39am

    do the Nats know?
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:39am

    using school email addresses
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:39am

    I’ve told no one
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:39am

    and don’t

    working with senior nats for release
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:39am

    I wouldn’t wreck what might potentially be your greatest story
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:40am

    this will be massive

    just have to be careful to cover accusations of hacking
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:40am

    NBut wouldn’t mind a wee wink and nod one day in appreciation
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:40am

    will do
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:40am

    It’s all open

    open door.

    you’ve made my night

    That’s far more than chancing upon some insecure data and having a look.

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  188. Odakyu-sen (735 comments) says:

    “Japanese biologists have discovered a new species of snail. Apparently they migrate by letting themselves be eaten by birds, and then they’re later shat out somewhere else.”

    I know that one. It’s scientific name is Poopviator jetstarii

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  189. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    And

    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:41am

    yep…but i need to make sure when the story drops that i cover all that off so it makes labour explain…they will lie then i hit them again

    they lie again and i hit them again

    i’m working all the possible defences out and going to pre-empt them
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:42am

    hacking, they might try and accuse you of holding credit card data illgeally.

    possibly abuse of spam or privacy laws.

    maybe you post all the info for everyone to see on your Wikileaks site
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:42am

    yep…got all those…i won’t publish any files

    hmmm…maybe i do

    a kiwileaks
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:43am

    Wikileaks…. of course.
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:43am

    that domain is taken

    but hey

    publish their database files
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:43am

    so everyone knows you have evrything.

    Drip feed the files slowly onto an anon server

    Point the media there.
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:44am

    or just upload everything to an anon server…and then drop the bomb and set them off

    sniffing

    the media are far oo lazy to do what i have already done…so prob best to package it into bite size pieces.
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:45am

    I think slowly torturing them is better.

    agree. Link to the file. Provide the precis so the media know what to look for, bingo
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:45am

    this is going to bite big time
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:46am

    what did you think when you found all this info?
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:46am

    force labour to answer hard questions about data privacy

    force them to audit, review and perhaps even change their systems
    ————————-
    Aaron Bhatnagar, 6/3, 9:46am

    At the very least, Labour’s IT person will have to resign in disgrace. Arguably the Chief of Staff too.
    ————————-
    Cameron Slater, 6/3, 9:46am

    i thought I couldn’t believe they would be so stupid…its what National would ahve done

    possibly their campaign manager…who is busy trying to beat me in a cycle race

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  190. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,820 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 8:51 pm

    But are you a jedi warrior?

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  191. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I hope you listen carefully to the speakers Judith. Important folks get really pissed when waitresses fuck up their orders! :)

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  192. skyblue (212 comments) says:

    Why the hell do we let Muslims into our lands?

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  193. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    ….”But are you a jedi warrior?”…..

    Negative Judith…..but I must admit I have developed a kink for female Ninjas.

    Do you think I should seek help? :)

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  194. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO1t_mFZ9RA

    May the arse be with you nasska! :)

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  195. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    skyblue (201 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:08 pm

    Because if we left them in the water we’d have a pollution problem?

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  196. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    nasska (10,821 comments) says:
    August 20th, 2014 at 9:11 pm

    Do you think I should seek help?

    If you keep that up you’ll need help alright – from a chiropractor!

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  197. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    PG – thats not hacking bro.

    it was all sitting on an open website.

    thats like me having an .xls file eg http://www.dime.co.nz/dimeshookerlist

    you come across it, grab it and have to install excel to read it.

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  198. Fletch (6,488 comments) says:

    Ads I’m getting sick of seeing on TV.

    1) 50 Shades of Trivago
    2) Cigna, “side of the road in a rubbish sack”

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  199. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Pinetree should be able to afford a wheelie bin at least! :)

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  200. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    dime – whether you want to call it hacking or not, it was deliberately dirty.

    I think if most people find a wallet, some papers, briefcase, handbag or whatever they will look enough to identify whose it might be and return it. They won’t go to great lengths to access as much as possible with a view to deliberately damaging the owner of the data.

    They could have easily taken enough screen shots or whatever to prove a major security stuff up, made hay with that and left what was obviously private data alone.

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  201. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    PG – deliberately dirty, yep. illegal? no.

    its a question of ethics. whale doesnt have many, he admits it.

    i think your wallet anology is wrong.

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  202. freemark (614 comments) says:

    @PG
    That’s not hacking to any extent like KDC (oops I mean Whalespew) has done was it?
    Whale didn’t release any data did he?
    He pointed out that Labour were not very smart..it was possibly “the worlds greatest sysop” who was the Labour I.T. guy…
    Fuck what a non story..especially when he didn’t release any info!!!

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  203. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    [249. Accessing computer system for dishonest purpose—

    (1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who, directly or indirectly, accesses any computer system and thereby, dishonestly or by deception, and without claim of right, —

    (a) obtains any property, privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration; or

    (b) to cause loss to any other person.

    (3) In this section, “deception” has the same meaning as in section 240(2).]

    I am not sure that if it was put before a Court that Slater would get away with it, it depends on how vigorously it was pursued I think, especially going from the conversation Pete George has shown. There was clear intent to cause harm to ‘someone’ by the actions. It would be an interesting test case.

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  204. muggins (3,800 comments) says:

    flipper
    Yes , Binnie’s report is garbage. You know that. So shut up about Bain’s compensation.

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  205. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    240 Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception
    (1)Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,—
    (a)obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or
    (b)in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or
    (c)induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or
    (d)causes loss to any other person.
    (2)In this section, deception means—
    (a)a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and—
    (i)knows that it is false in a material particular; or
    (ii)is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or
    (b)an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or
    (c)a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any person.

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  206. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    dammit, I can’t access dime’s hooker list. Must have been hacked.

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  207. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Point 2 (C) above.

    stratagem
    ˈstratədʒəm/Submit
    noun
    a plan or scheme, especially one used to outwit an opponent or achieve an end.

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM330422.html

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  208. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    Mitigating circumstances when the opponents are witless though Judith.

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  209. Nostalgia-NZ (5,276 comments) says:

    It looks like Aaron Bhatnagar got a wink and a nod.

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  210. Nostalgia-NZ (5,276 comments) says:

    I wonder if the SIS will be doing a down phone bugs, phone shoes and horn rimmed glasses in protest at being investigated. Even an optimist would probably grudgingly admit that things were a bit ‘topsy turvy’ a the moment with the Nats back to 48%, Winston making a big gain and old Aaron getting himself in the news, sort of naked.

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  211. publicwatchdog (2,803 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers – am I the only one asking this HARD question?

    Is New Zealand’s former Minister of Police, and current Minister of Justice Judith Collins a ‘psychopath’?

    Definition of a psychopath:

    http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/07/03/improving-the-definition-of-%E2%80%98psychopath%E2%80%99/64.html

    A better definition of ‘Psychopath’

    By RICK NAUERT PHD Senior News Editor

    Reviewed by John M. Grohol, Psy.D. on July 3, 2006

    Are some corporate CEO’s, doctors, lawyers, politicians and scientists psychopaths? The answer could be “yes” if you use a definition which labels individuals who are often intelligent and highly charismatic, but display a chronic inability to feel guilt, remorse or anxiety about any of their actions. Tack on the use of violence and intimidation to control others and satisfy selfish needs and the label expands.

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________

    How to Identify a Psychopath

    One Methods:Identifying Psychopaths with the Hare Checklist

    The Hare Psychopathy Checklist was initially developed to assess the mental condition of people who commit crimes, and it is commonly used to diagnose people who may exhibit the traits and tendencies of a psychopath. Most mental health professionals define a psychopath as a predator who takes advantage of others using charm, deceit, violence and other methods to get what they want. Identify a psychopath by using the Hare Psychopathy Checklist and trusting your own intuition.

    http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Psychopath
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

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  212. OneTrack (3,218 comments) says:

    Ms Bright, why don’t you do the test on Collins and tell us what the result is. While you are at it, do it for KDC, Cunliffe and Norman.

    Oh. Wait.

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  213. OneTrack (3,218 comments) says:

    spc – “Casting for Moby Dick, the tale of a quest for a 4 term government…”

    We better make the most of it because if the hard left coalition of incompetence get in to Government, too many costly conditions would put on them and the film company would head offshore. Weta would put their computers in a container and follow them.

    Comrade Kelly will wave them off at the airport, yelling “The peoples republic of aotearoa doesn’t need you. We’ll make ‘Whale Rider vs the evil colonists Piano’ ourselves”.

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  214. Sofia (862 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers – am I the only one asking this HARD question?

    Penny, on the same psychcentral.com site you quote from
    _______________

    Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
    In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following  symptoms:

    • Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
    • Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

    • Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

    • Requires excessive admiration

    • Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

    • Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

    • Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

    • Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

    • Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

    • Demands kiwiblogger attention and then is usually rude, guaranteeing a negative response, so the cuckoo “shit in someone else’s nest” can be repeated ad nauseam.

    Score? ______

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  215. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    Laila Harré: (her facebook status update)

    Vote – because the National Party doesn’t want you to. This is how they explain their Dirty Politics:

    “There are a few basic propositions with negative campaigning that are worth knowing about. It lowers turnout, favours right more than left as the right continues to turn out, and drives away the independents.’ [Simon Lusk, National Party strategist]

    “In short, many people stop participating in politics. If politicians cannot be trusted, if politics looks like a petty or ugly game, and if no one seems to be talking about the things that matter, then what’s the point of bothering to participate? Just leave them to it….tactics do not have to be just about winning votes; they can be equally effective if groups of people in society just stop voting altogether.” [p132]

    Does she really not think the book Dirty Politics is dirty politics itself and won’t have the same effect?

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  216. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    PG – deliberately dirty, yep. illegal? no.

    Whether it was illegal or not is disputed by lawyers. There appears to be no legal precedent so there’s uncertainty what a court would find. This is well covered by lawyer Jono Natusch in WAS A CRIME COMMITTED WHEN SLATER ACCESSED LABOUR’S COMPUTER SYSTEM?

    He concludes:

    Nonetheless, regardless of whether we’ve all got authorisation to access the Labour Party website, Slater’s posts of the time, and Ede’s Facebook/email correspondence with Slater, make it plain that they knew they were accessing something that the Labour Party did not want accessed by the general public.

    To me, that clearly brings s 252(2) into play – you’ve got authorisation to surf the Labour Party website, but when you stumble on (or are tipped off about) a publicly accessible backdoor route into membership and donation databases, it should be obvious that you’ve gone beyond the purpose of access, thus negating the right of access you previously had.

    Frankly, I don’t think Graeme Edgeler’s proposed defence would fly.

    Which means we now await the outcome of the Police complaint, and see who they agree with…

    Regardless of the law I don’t think there’s any doubt about the dirty and damaging intent.

    This may or may not be judged in a court but the actions and discussions of Slater and Bhatnagar should be deplored on decency and democratic grounds.

    And I think John Key has made a major error of judgment refusing to condemn this and other examples of a deluge of despicable politicking.

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  217. publicwatchdog (2,803 comments) says:

    Sofia – I’m a self-funded, truth-telling ‘Whistle-blower’ – who doesn’t do dirty politics.

    I’ll stand on my proven track record – my comments on Kiwiblog since Day One.

    Keep up your ad hominem attacks Sofia – I find it proves I’m being effective.

    ‘You don’t cop the flak unless you’re over the target’.

    Penny Bright

    (Who at least puts her name to her posts).

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  218. graham (2,346 comments) says:

    Sofia at 11:33 pm –

    Here you go Kiwibloggers – nope, you’re not the only one asking the HARD questions.

    I’ve asked Penny a number of very pertinent questions, as have David Garrett, Nookin and several other people. But apparently all these questions are too HARD for Penny Bright to answer, because she simply ignores them.

    The equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing loudly “LA LA LA, I can’t HEEEAR you!”

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  219. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Hacking is illegal, and when it occurs and the offender caught there must be punishment. That is a definite.

    What it the hacking uncovered a criminal conspiracy?
    Doesn’t the hacker get any credit for acting in the public interest?

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  220. graham (2,346 comments) says:

    Answers to some, any, or all of these will do for starters:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/10/general_debate_2_october_2012.html#comment-1028893
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/nz_least_corrupt_again.html#comment-1057510
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/nz_least_corrupt_again.html#comment-1057557
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/nz_least_corrupt_again.html#comment-1057785
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/09/general_debate_6_september_2012.html#comment-1018509
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/09/general_debate_6_september_2012.html#comment-1018513
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/09/general_debate_6_september_2012.html#comment-1018521
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/09/general_debate_6_september_2012.html#comment-1018527
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/10/general_debate_12_october_2012-2.html#comment-1034830
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/general_debate_16_april_2011.html#comment-820195
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/general_debate_16_april_2011.html#comment-820284
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/general_debate_16_april_2011.html#comment-820290
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/general_debate_16_april_2011.html#comment-820331
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/general_debate_16_april_2011.html#comment-820345
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/general_debate_16_april_2011.html#comment-820353
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/general_debate_16_april_2011.html#comment-820571
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/06/greens_trying_to_buy_a_referendum.html#comment-977795
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/06/greens_trying_to_buy_a_referendum.html#comment-977805
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/general_debate_7_august_2014.html#comment-1374734
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/general_debate_7_august_2014.html#comment-1374745
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/general_debate_7_august_2014.html#comment-1374802
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/general_debate_5_august_2014.html#comment-1373380
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/christchurch_council_considers_partial_privatisations.html#comment-1373862

    Meant – as always – in a CARING way :)

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  221. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Doesn’t the hacker get any credit for acting in the public interest?

    Depends on how they act, and if they put more emphasis on self interest than public interest.

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