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There is something pathetic, and even a bit comical, about Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam “discovering” the negative effect of multicultural diversity on the “fabric of associations, trust, and neighborliness that create and sustain communities.” Only an academic, isolated within the impoverished perspectives of our American academic culture of the left could have been in the dark about this. We can infer Putnam is a liberal from the fact he doesn’t want to publish until he can develop proposals to offset the negative effects of diversity. He has said elsewhere that he was surprised and disappointed by his findings. His fears of proceeding are understandable even if his timorousness is discreditable; after all, consider what recently happened to his former president, Larry Summers.
It seems to be a case of reality breaking in, in the case of Putnam, at least, on the liberal Enlightenment dream that we are in the midst of process that will eventually converge on a universal civilization, in which human difference will disappear, or perhaps only survive as Marx thought in the form of colorful practice such as ethnic cuisines or special dress on commemorative occasions. Putnam apparently retains the hope of an eventual emergence in the long term of a new culture, presumably closer to the liberal ideal, but acknowledges in effect much destruction in the meantime, as you point out.
Of course, there is another possibility which is too horrible for a liberal like Putnam to contemplate: that there is a permanent and ineradicable tendency of human beings to form distinct identities (“communities” in Putnam’s terms); that such identities inevitably function through practices of inclusion and exclusion (“prejudice,” in liberal terms); and that in some cases, at least, the members of these communities will adhere to such conflicting outlooks that there can be no peaceable modus vivendi between them: there can only be war or separation. Further, given the multiplicity of forms that human association can take, while there will be many communities which do not meet the minimum natural requirements for human flourishing (I will not here speculate on what the content of such requirements would be, but presumably they would include a certain level of personal security, material well-being, and procedural guarantees against violence), there will be others that do, but which do not privilege liberal practice. In fact, it is quite possible that certain non-liberal forms will better meet these minimal requirements than liberal communities that have fallen as a result of their liberalism into serious social disorder and insecurity, a possibility which no liberal can admit.
Patrick Gower on Radio Live yesterday denied saying (on that station) around the end of the Oravida ‘scandal’ that a much bigger, more damaging story was going to come out before the election. They had callers saying they remembered him saying this.
Very, very shifty replies to Sean Plunket’s questions about whether he recalled saying it or whether indeed he knew. Long silences. “What story?” “Do you have that on tape do you?”
They are currently trying to find the audio for it. Worth keeping an ear out on this
At the moment, the Prime Minister is wondering why the f*** he would bother trying to help this country out when he doesn’t need to
Did you ever have a really good woolen jersey that you found a loose stitch in, then you picked at it and picked at it until you had a strand then wondered why the whole thing unravelled and you were very cold? As a child I mean.
Hikois have been overused and are pretty much meaningless now. Clark met Shrek the sheep instead of the last big one and got away with it. She had some balls did she not.
“I heard a rumour about someone who had some stuff,” says Hager, whose books on spies have generated contacts in IT circles. “He already had a plan in his mind to set up a Twitter account and splash it all out there.”
Hager says he spent weeks talking the person into letting him see the material and use it to build the narrative which became Dirty Politics.
The hacker, says Hager, gave him everything. “I’ve seen everything. I’m 100 per cent sure.” The hacker then expressed a desire to keep back some material for himself. “We kind of negotiated how much,” he says. “I said ‘can I have all the political stuff’.” Hager got what he asked for and so, the book was written.
So Hager published his book ‘ethically’ removing personal details – even that’s debatable, he revealed identities and made damaging insinuations that were far from a journalistic standard – knowing full well that the whole contents would be revealed soon afterwards anyway.
Hager knew that his book was just a part of a greater degree of private revelations, but he chose to take part anyway.
Not only do the excuses for Hager not stack up, Hager’s own ethics are severely challenged by his involvement in this.
The only apology “Tojo” Cunliffe should be making is for oxygen thieving. He and his mate Campbell are the lowest common denominators in NZ politics currently, even worse than the chinless gutless Hager. Come on Mazda shareholders, throw the greasy little piece of effeminate filth out of your product . . . your name is being damaged.
Goodhart argued that the reason the US has a minimal welfare state is its diversity, which is much more long-standing than in Europe. A large proportion of the people at the bottom in the US are ethnically different from the majority. In 2001, 70 per cent of the US population was made up of non-Hispanic whites, but they made up 46 per cent of those living in poverty. Americans think of the poor as members of a different group, whereas in Europe, until recently, they were thought of as part of the same overall community. Multiculturalism and the European welfare state are intrinsically at odds with one another. Goodhart’s thesis was rejected by many critics essentially on ideological grounds—it flouted political correctness by seeming to question multiculturalism.
Will he be so quick to apologise if the email thief ,who keeps attacking the Nats and overlooks the other party’s ,finally gets around to talk about Cunliffes dirty washing.How will he re-act to being pursued twenty four seven, by snarling rat faced cloth capped journalist union media infested losers, all committed to the downfall of National Government.Watched a few newsclips of the Taxpayer funded TVNZ.Even the ratfaced cue reader was on the charge giving his one cent comment on John Key .That was even before we got to that surly looking Labour party sycophant Corrin Dann.WONDER WILL THE Australian owned HERALD,or Dom Post print about Cunliffes dirty washing,or even the Canadian owned TV3 .Will little guys Campbell and Gower demand Cunliffe to reveal all.There is more chance of hell freezing over, the NZ main stream media are a disgrace to their calling.The only person up to now could be called a journalist is SHAUN PLUNKET,who deserves the right to be called a journalist.Go get them Shaun.with your investigations on who is the personal emaile thief,and who funded it.
Another day, another round of threats from the Zionist sock-puppet Slater against the media. Mossad must be wondering why they bothered wasting any money on that morons airfare.
David Fisher in the Herald today says a National party source describes Slater as ” …the most unwelcome, least-liked person to have ever been a National Party member…” and his response is to try and blackmail the journalist in public.
Dirty politics alright…..
A left wing activist in collusion with a ‘hacker’ and several sympathetic left wing ‘journalists’ are trying to influence the outcome of the election by releasing material without the right of reply, on short notice that is ambiguous and can’t be checked or confirmed.
The problem is not that MPs are behaving badly and the way to solve it is by bringing in another set of public servants to serve as MPs, the real problem is there is nothing to constrain MPs. If MPs spend too much money, we can’t use another currency to avoid their inflation. If we kick out one bunch of MPs because we don’t like their policies, they get replaced by another from the opposite side of the “right/left divide” who then then go and implement the same policies. When we kick the Politicians out, their “opposition” give them cushy roles in some quango, NGO or 3rd in charge at the United Nations.
Our media’s and Political hack’s default position on every issue is always: “Why isn’t the government doing more to deal with this….?” But just imagine how very different our world would look if, instead, our MSM and one party political state philosophy was: “Why can’t the government get out of the way and leave us free to pursue our hopes and dreams?”
Imagine if our government an MSM didn’t feel the need to regulate all of our lives, didn’t tell us what to think and didn’t create divisions amongst people where previously was none. Imagine if MPs just governened us, rather than ruled over us?
Chuck Bird (4,736 comments) says:
August 23rd, 2014 at 8:20 am
The apology is not to Maori but to Tuhoe who do not want to respect a court order. No payment should be made until they return the body they stole.
Once again you complete English ignorance comes to the fore. It seems you can’t or don’t even understand the English based justice system that is upheld by the courts in NZ.
Nice of you to turn up Peoples Flag,just to remind us how utterly thick you retarded snivelling lefties really are .
David Fisher has swallowed so much German sausage he has turned into Goebbels himself and has totally removed himself from any form of credible journalism .
So how is that new macbook working out Marty?
The more I read and hear the so called NZ “media”.The more I realise they are a corrupt bunch of sick psychopaths,printing stories without any truth.To call themselves” journalists” beggars belief.They are so full of sanctimonious belief.Truth is they are lower than a snakes belly in full crawl.Wish the ratbags in NZ “media” would go and do something useful.Get a real job ,stop lying and taking part in reef fish reporting,and endeavouring to be bigger than the story.
It would be interesting to have a media roll call and know their leanings and prejudices. They are probably a few who are professional (objective) but the rest are just warriors in a battle (left or right) and they may weld influence way beyond their worth?
For the peoples flag and like.
Remember the Israelis have very proficient cyber units, both officially and through their extended networks. They put the virus in that corrupted all the Iranian uranium centrifuges that caused them to blow up. They have also been accused , with some justication, of hacking files and they have a very extensive network of human assets. They got a lot of information out of NSA is just one example. And they also value relationships, as anyone who has dealt with their businesses can testify to.
Neither Hagar nor the Coateville puppetmaster would be on their list of friends. What if they slip a flashdrive of incriminating information to Cameron as he leaves? What comes around, goes around. Surely Mr Hagar wouldn’t complain if his correspondence became public would he? Just speculation of course.
The problem with talking about inequality of income and wealth is that it implies equality is the aim. Clearly in a capitalist society this isn’t the case – most people don’t have a problem with people being rewarded for working hard and getting ahead. That is the obvious problem with the byline for the Spirit Level: “Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better”. Actually, no, that couldn’t be more wrong, the most equal societies (the communist ones) failed.
So we should look forward to his dumping from that position.
How can you teach ethics when you cannot determine them for your own behavoir.
Oh its the left and they can prescribe what they like.
Hagers view of ethics is only his view. Time we had some strident opposing view.
I look forward to the release of those emails from Liebor to their ‘friends’ in media…
Should be an eye opener or three.
And since they condone hacking I feel sure that when they suffer the same fate they will act as the currently hacked people do…
Now I’ll ride away on my unicorn….
Anyone who thinks that Cam Slater is about to fold, notwithstanding the Herald ( a farmer friend describes Murphy’s herald as Pravda) this morning questioning his blog viewer hits since the Hager fiction emerged, has only to read this excellent demolition of V Small in the new Red Spark (aka Dom Post):
…“Vernon Small interviews his keyboard
by Cameron Slater on August 23, 2014 at 8:00am
“Vernon Small is supposed to be clever, he is rather pink coloured and embedded deep within Labour and so when you read articles like his one this morning you really wonder if he is so embedded in the left he has no idea what actually goes on outside his state funded cubicle in the Press Gallery.
“Especially when he makes silly statements like this:
“The really tricky one is how to deal with Judith Collins, a senior minister at the heart of his government who has clearly taken her friendship with Slater too far.
“How can a friendship go too far? What sort of friendships does Vernon have? You know attending concerts with Labour MPs and staffers in Martinborough? (Yes Vernon you were, I was sitting two rows behind you and the Labour “friends”). [Oops!]
“Key has opted for the lesser of two evils by keeping her on with only a mild rebuke. (‘‘Unwise’’, in the glossary of political discipline, is somewhere near the bottom of the rising crescendo that passes through inappropriate and ends up at inexcusable and unacceptable for a minister.)
“The alternative was to sack her or issue a much stronger rebuke, but on….. ”
When you have done that, go back and read his piece on Fisher…seems to indicate that the phony war might be coming to an end. The last time we had a phony war, I recall, it was the initiator who got handed the cyanide and 9mm asprin.
OPINION: Just because you’re xenophobic doesn’t mean foreigners aren’t out to get you.
That’s the catch. It’s irrational to fear the inflow of overseas capital, but only a nutcase would ignore the risks. Maybe Winston Peters isn’t crazy.
We want foreigners to buy our assets because they pay the best prices. Having foreigners pay more for our assets means New Zealanders can’t afford them. New Zealanders don’t have enough money so we need foreigners to buy our assets.
Such circularity turns discussion into a tail-chasing dog, particularly when sales of farmland to Chinese are involved.
However, Chalkie reckons one aspect is often overlooked.
Why would an overseas buyer pay more for an asset than a New Zealander? Is it because they can accept lower returns on capital? Perhaps. Is it because they can sweat the asset more? Again, perhaps. But Chalkie reckons one reason stands out – tax.
There are huge tax advantages available to overseas investors that simply cannot be accessed by locals. They crank up the returns available to foreign buyers and make New Zealand assets worth more to overseas owners than to New Zealand residents.
I sent a copy of Stringer’s ISIS post late yesterday to a chum in the UK (a former Oxford Don ). His reply was typical “Oxbridge” ….
” The Empire encountered this sort of thing from time to time, the most infamous example being, I suppose, the ‘thugies’, from whom we get our word ‘thugs’. The response then was swift and condign, and didn’t have much to do with ‘due process’. Where fundamentalist Muslims were the perpetrators, execution was preceded by defilement with pig’s blood. It was reported as having had a remarkably sobering influence on the enthusiasm of co-religionists of otherwise similar inclination. No longer 27 virgins for all eternity, one supposes!”
It has been reported that over 500,000 clients are now part of the truth in the news, true journalists web site run by Cameron Slater.The site well known by NZs who seek the real truth in the news ,and hated by the phony so called NZ “media reporters” and cloth capped infested journalist union,the big donators to Green/Labour Party’s potential NZ economy wreckers.Lest we forget TVNZ,TV3,NZ HERALD,DOM POST.RADIO LIVE,NEWSTALK ZB.its called WHALEOIL.
There’s a great line in Kipling’s poem about being a man that I put up on GD last night, which perfectly suits this Dirty Politics…
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools precisely describes this, doesn’t it. I wonder if Kipling ever thought when he wrote that line, that one day, the knaves would include the media, the very people whom in his day he regarded as trusted colleagues and fellow professionals of the art. Wonder what the genius would think of them now.
“Clark met Shrek the sheep instead of the last big [hikoi] and got away with it. She had some balls did she not.”
I would have said that she just couldn’t handle confrontations with Maori. Going to Waitangi day and being shouted at turned her into an emotional wreck. She kept expecting Maori to recognise that she was on their side and be all nice to her. When they were nasty she didn’t know how to handle it.
“A 4 year old Israeli boy is dead and many other injured after a Hamas rocket hit a kindergarten in Ashdod and a synagogue was also hit. ”
Can’t find that anywhere in the New Zealand Hamas.
Only the usual Hamas press releases but nothing about a child being killed.
Headlines for terrorists killed by an Israeli airstrike, nothing when an Jewish child is being killed.
Now I wonder why that is….?
Also kept very quiet is the fact that a senior Hamas leader in exile admitted that Hamas was behind the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli teens in the West Bank the group’s first claim of responsibility for the June attack that triggered an Israeli crackdown and eventually led to the Gaza war. Saleh Arouri told an international conference of Islamic scholars in Turkey on Wednesday that Hamas grabbed the teens in hopes of sparking a Palestinian uprising in the West Bank.
No headlines, just a small byline buried at the end.
I remember all our usual little islamofascists supporters such as Simon, Campit and UT pronouncing Hamas innocence in the kidnapping case…
They’ll be up here very soon for a mea culpa….
Tui add coming up.
Oh wow, Nat fan boys on here complaining about a left wing media…
Well that’s news isn’t it boys…?
The media.. left wing.. now whoever would have believed it?
And they’re not giving poor Johnny a fair go.
Well hell harden up you useless losers.
The media have been left wing since Adam was a boy.
But what have the Nats and John Key been doing the last six years??
Kissing their arses that’s what. Sucking up to losers like Gower and Soper and all the rest.
And now election time the scum have turned on National and they’re outraged.
What National needed to do, and what I have constantly advocated is stop all govt money going into the media, (public good advertising etc) sell off TV One/ TVNZ, sell off Radio NZ, shut down NZ On Air AND TAKE THE FIGHT TO THESE SUBVERSIVE BASTARDS..!!!
Instead they spent six years kissing their arses and are now whining because the media are against them..????
When they were nasty she didn’t know how to handle it.
Of course she did but what she couldn’t afford was to reveal her true self in public lest the voters shy away in terror.
So she pretended she was all tearful when Harawira attacked her at the marae instead of turning round and tearing Harawira a new one as she was quite capable of doing and as would have been her instinct, given who she (really) is. Then she turned round and insulted Maoridom for their effrontery by visiting a sheep that day, thus demonstrating her contempt for that people in a way that entirely escaped those whose job it is to report such matters plus also demonstrating to those who were able to work it out that she engages in collective punishment for a perceived sleight which says a whole hell of a lot about her inner character that she tried to keep hidden.
The key is in what she did: visited a sheep. She could have done anything, but she chose to visit a sheep. Get it?
It would not surprise me at all if the decision on the Foreshore and Seabed was also driven by that incident too plus the repeated effrontery Maori gave to her by daring to support Turia over her magnificent self. She’s just that kind of person.
Colin Craig’s JR of the Electoral Commission’s decision to keep ACT’s election funding at the same level is interesting. It seems he’ll have to argue that it’s ‘unfair’ that ACT keep their funding as a party with an MP – despite Banks resigning. I think there’s a good argument that it would be ‘unfair’ that ACT had their funding reduced – despite that Banks was MP for the majority of this electoral term, and that anyway, it was nothing to do with Act as to what Banks may or may not have done before joining the party – particularly things they clearly could not have known about.
CC may be getting a bit overheated in his battle with ACT and losing some objectivity. He might be also missing the fact that it’s probable that one of his recent conscripts may well be highly motivated to attack or bring to heel JK, and sees ACT as the vehicle for that. Interesting scraps arising all over the place, hardly any room for policy – particularly because of THAT book. No use lamenting it I guess, better to adapt.
Wouldn’t it be great if someone on the right kept a webpage of NZ journalists detailing all of the times that they are caught out displaying bias, duplicity or malfeasance. So that anytime they tried to stand up with a holier than thou or pretence of impartiality they could be more easily shown up as partisan hypocrites.
As so many of them have decided to play a role in politics, it is only fair that they be subject to the same scrutiny as politicians.
Question – do the following actions count as ‘dirty politics’, or are they just plain ‘nasty politics’:
– stating that ACT stands for “Associated with Crooks and Thieves!”
– referring to John Banks as ‘dodgy’, the ‘Not-So-Honourable’ and stating he has all the class of a rat with a gold tooth
– displaying, on your website, a series of cartoons showing John Banks as a rat
– displaying, on your website, a cartoon showing John Key as a pig
– displaying, on your website, a cartoon showing John Banks as a pig wallowing in mud
– accusing John Key of faking sincerity
– defacing your political opponents’ billboards with your own signs, including one that calls John Banks the ‘best politician that money can buy’
“It has been reported that over 500,000 clients are now part of the truth in the news, true journalists web site run by Cameron Slater.”
I’m not sure WhaleOil can be called a “truth in the news, true journalists web site”. Slater doesn’t meet the ethical standards I expect of a Journalist. Journalists make at least some effort to be objective and put disclaimers on their stories if they have a financial dog in the fight. Slater doesn’t do this and his stories are for sale. All that stuff about plain packaging and sugar and Israel and Fiji and goodness knows what else was apparently in there mainly because someone paid for it to be there. This isn’t ethical journalism as I know it.
Look at how DPF has reacted to Hager’s book and compare that to how Slater has reacted. Most of the criticism of DPF in that book was extremely unfair and perhaps even defamatory. But in the middle of responding to all the ridiculous allegatiions in Hager’s attack piece DPF took the time out to critique his own performance as a journalist, and ask if there was anything Kiwiblog could be doing better. As a result he has signed Kiwiblog up to a media standards organisation to make his commitment to high ethical standards in journalism clear. Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! This is what an ethical person does. They look at themselves and hold themselves to high standards. It makes me confident that I can trust what I read here to be fair and honest and exactly what it presents itself to be.
Now look at how Slater has reacted. He has come out swinging and simply shrugs off and rejects all criticism. No moment of ethical self reflection or critique of his own performance over there. WhaleOil isn’t signed up to any kind of media standards organisation. We don’t know what ethical standards WhaleOil subscribes to, but the paid-for stories and the lack of disclaimers make it clear that they are not the ethical standards usually expected of a Journalist.
Slater seems to have no interest in fixing this and so when you read WhaleOil you need to be careful and think each time you look at a story, who paid for it.
Of course bloody Slater who could release ALL the email information if he wanted hasn’t and wont because he is looking out for himself. He is partly responsible if National lose this election due to this piece of shit book.
My challenge to Stater – Release some of the emails and other information relating to the other political parties or be a useless shit tool of the left.
The Herald admit they are actually working with a second hacker –
The Herald was able to confirm the use of Mr Bryant’s ministerial computer through details obtained from an individual other than the hacker who also accessed information from Whale Oil during the Denial of Service attack.
In the file held by the Herald, hundreds of messages sent from people working on ministerial or government computers are linked to the servers and IP addresses from which they were posted.
Brendan Malone on The Leading Edge blog, describing NZ’s media accurately –
The two fundamental mistakes that I think the media made right back at the very beginning were to:
a. Wrongly assume that this book was a piece of investigative journalism and not the political attack and personal vendetta that it really is
Which lead to:
b. The media taking everything Hager’s book presents at face value, rather than applying basic journalist due diligence of their own
This quickly escalated when certain journalists, very soon after the release of the book, started making the ridiculous suggestion that this was the NZ equivalent to the Watergate scandal.
Watergate is to journalists what Everest is to mountain climbers. It is the desperately sought after holy grail of their profession, and the almost divine standard by which all other journalism since has compared itself to.
Based on the possibility that these allegations truly were another Watergate, then you can understand why many NZ journalism has thrown itself headlong into this incident.
This would be career-making stuff.
The problem is that this is NOT another Watergate.
This is a piece of dirty politics, a political attack in drag – but in their desire to make a name for themselves, too many NZ journalists have become caught up in the hype and allowed themselves to blindly become pawns in this whole sorry state of affairs.
Reading the daily slew of headlines and stories about this incident, one can’t help but get the feeling that many in the NZ media now desperately want the allegations Hager has made to be true because they have invested so much frenzied time and effort into this story that anything less will leave them feeling like they have wasted that time and effort (and of course, there will be none of the potential accolades and career defining opportunities either).
Despite all the headlines, endless updates and incessant chewing on the carcass of this incident (seriously, are there any actual political journalists left in NZ now, or are they all commentators paid to editorialise their own opinions and unfounded theories into stories?!) we are all none the wiser, and the only illegal act that we know for certain to have taken place is the only act that the NZ media seem unwilling to actually probe.
It makes me confident that I can trust what I read here to be fair and honest and exactly what it presents itself to be.
If that’s how you assimilate information ws, you’re not going to get very far in your political understanding nor in your understanding of anything else. Building understanding on anything is about assimilating a variety of material and its not the source that’s important it’s how it fits into the assimilating picture.
Often some people here claim that a given website is bullshit, as if that has anything to do with anything, given that it’s the piece of information it contains which is the actual point. But they don’t see that and they probably never will. I suggest you don’t join that camp, lest you remain foolish and ignorant, like them.
Gower is sunk. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing during that phone call from Sean Plunket.
The Israelis wont be giving Slater anything. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy in terms of security about other peoples business, including his former friends.
One thing about Israeli culture is “trust is everything” If you spend some time with them you will notice they simply don’t lie. They will tell it like it is, completely factual, and will look bemused when some people take offence at the information. (A complete contrast to Arab culture)
Interesting question re journalists and their political leaning. In the recent Aussie elections they actually did ‘poll” journalist in Queensland on this question. I don’t know how many (of the % of journalists in the State) but it was a significant number. The majority said they would vote Greens , next highest number was Labour and a few Liberal. I’m not suggesting it would be same here but I think it is obvious that at least the print media journalists are left leaning.
I think when this election is over the biggest losers ( aside from Hager) will be the journalists. I’m sure all this BS went on in decades past around elections but the public did not have the internet to get the alternative side of the story. It is the same as consumer product marketing — the power has shifted more towards the consumer and now the power has moved more towards the reader ( or consumer of news). I think some of the smart journalists realise this and they are scared. Whether you like Cameron Slater’s style or not he is having an effect. ( If you can get a book about the history of Randolf Hearst’s newspaper empire it would be worth reading to see the similarities). I predict that someone else will try to do what Slater has/is doing and will take it a lot further.
“Journalists make at least some effort to be objective….”
Very few waikatosinger, very few…..
Four years years ago I emailed a New Zealand Herald journalist to point out an obvious mistake he had made in his article.
I emailed him the source material that proved without doubt that his conclusion was wrong.
In the end he came back with the following (literally!)reply:
“You may be right, but I wrote it as I saw it…”
Objective journalism in the mainstream press has been dead for some time now.
@Reid: Surely understanding where a story comes from helps you know where to put it in your “assimilating picture”. In WhaleOil’s case learning that those stories were paid for forced me to reevaluate them.
Paddy Gower said a similar thing on “The Nation” a month or so ago. Words to the effect “There’s something big to come; mark my words” Again not the exact words and his faced showed that smug ‘I know something you don’t know’ look.
Left wing prick!
can anyone recommend a link for me to read about the basics of the history of the israel/palestine conflict?
history of israel palestine conflict the first two links were wikipedia (which wouldn’t open – ‘The webpage is not available”) and yeah, I know, wikipedia…
most of the rest of the links on page one looked like they were from websites that would be extremely partisan, one way or the other
I have clicked on the guardian uk one and am about to read it but from what I have seen here (kb) a lot of you seem to be well informed and could give me some guidance?
Surely understanding where a story comes from helps you know where to put it in your “assimilating picture”. In WhaleOil’s case learning that those stories were paid for forced me to reevaluate them.
No, I seriously don’t care. And I’ve been seriously not caring for so long now it’s just part of my subconscious. And it seems to be accurate since I’ve never bothered to read any of Whale’s lobbying stories therefore personally, I don’t need to reevaluate anything…
Here’s an example ws.
Paddy Gower said a similar thing on “The Nation” a month or so ago. Words to the effect “There’s something big to come; mark my words” Again not the exact words and his faced showed that smug ‘I know something you don’t know’ look.
Left wing prick!
When this broke, one of the first things Cam said was: this explains Liarbore’s Vote Positive message.
I just filed that away as an interesting new possible angle. Because clearly that’s a big tell if true, that this whole thing really is nothing more than a calculated smear – an ORCHESTRATED litany of lies.
And then Gower’s comment is another piece in the same gradually assimilating jigsaw. And if that came from The Stranded or from here or from NZHerald or from Whale, I wouldn’t care. Information is information is information.
Whale Oil commenters must all be the worst kind of sheep.
Anyone reading the email conversations that Slater had with his prog mates can see that he regards them as political fodder to be manipulated like a shoal of whitebait.
Slater has been taking money to influence public opinion through his blog.
Now if he wants to make money this way fine, but the fact is once it becomes public knowledge this is how he is playing it, how can anyone reading the blog know if he’s saying what he thinks or if he’s saying what other people have paid him to say?
Why would people willingly subject themselves to this kind of cynical manipulation?
The only explanation is that the “Whale Army” are a bunch of arse kissing losers with no minds of their own.
One only has to see how they lie down and roll over when the so called “moderator” the liar and coward Pete, issues some new edict regarding what they can say.
They all piss and whine like some bunch of wet little liberal dicky lickers, but they take it. Poodles would have more spunk.
And this is the blog that is accepted as representative of the right wing blogosphere?
FFS, if this is true, God help the right wing in NZ is all I can say.
Redbaiter’s 10.16am comments I must say I agree with. The Nats need to harden up quickly.
As for the political journalists covering the election campaign. Well does anyone in their right mind actually expect too many of them to do serious research and analysis of topics. As anyone who has done proper research and analysis either academically, or in a public or private sector knows it usually takes a lot of time and effort. I cannot see people like Soper et al. doing that.
They’d be too lazy, it is easy to read Hager or whaledump’s Twitter page.
You know, Keys “Brighter Future” isn’t “Working for New Zealand”, if anything except for the very top earners in this country the lights have dimmed, (higher power prices anyone?) and real unemployment, under employment and real buying power have all gone in the wrong direction.
But I suppose Pete Gorge can put a positive spin on it. Cheerleader for his overlords.
How much time do you really spend with Israeli culture? I can only claim some business dealings and a few in-laws, so I don’t see myself as an expert. From what I have observed, believe it or not, they are just like us. They do generally run on mutual trust but that isn’t exclusive. Sometimes they have high principles, sometimes they succumb to the baser urges. They are human after all.
With regards their government actions, the overwhelming principle seems to be realpolitik with the enemies of my enemies are my friends being a guiding principle. Look at their dealings with Arab leaders and how they have supported some even when the tide is going out. over the last year, there is more than some proof that there is co-operation with the Saudis over stopping Iranian expansion.
The left wing, including the Labour candidates, slagging off about John Keys mother would have been noticed. Having a fascination with Nazi regalia would also have pushed buttons. And the Israelis are very good at plausible deniability.
“One only has to see how they lie down and roll over when the so called “moderator” the liar and coward Pete, issues some new edict regarding what they can say.”
So you got banned as well…:-)
Seriously, they are in general (Both the moderators and Slater) a bunch of know-it-all, biased, hypocritical uneven handed foul mouths and mud slingers.
You know that, and with that in mind you read the articles on the site.
Lots of rubbish, some interesting articles.
It is part of the ‘rich tapestry’ of ‘news’.
The MSM is the same but most of them don’t (Apart from the Guardian and the BBC who ban commenters just for having an opinion contrary to them.) lay it on as thick as Slater.
Reid – “Building understanding on anything is about assimilating a variety of material and its not the source that’s important it’s how it fits into the assimilating ”
Disagree. In more cases than it should, the source speaks to the veracity of the information and its reliability. If I read the NZ Herald, I now understand that it will have a real left taint AND I can be confident that the journolist ™, has either cut and pasted a press release from the Green Party, have covered over or simply left out relevant information or, simply didn’t think to ask/answer the obvious questions that most people would want answered.
And Nicky Hagar with his gossip and connect the dots exercise, spare me.
Caleb (469 comments) says:
August 23rd, 2014 at 11:03 am
Just got banned on Whaleoil for posting this on the Moderation post;
This blog will have to be careful if the tone of some past articles is to go by.
Not that, that is a problem or bad at all, just that moderating comments to a higher standard would be hypocritical.
No. The moderator over there is a little Hitler.
I’ve seen warnings to posters over absolutely nothing.
Greeting a new poster is a crime ?
Time they put up all this evidence they claim to have and laid complaints with Police et al instead of just piling post on post.
Getting to the point where is it worth the time taken to read Mod threats?
The prophet said: ‘The time (of Resurrection) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!'”
Sahih Muslim, Book 41, Number 6985
You certainly are speaking common sense.Dont think anyone could have said it better.As Churchill once said” the more you appease the crocodiles,in the hope you will be the last one eaten”.Well now with the all out assault by Labour/green dotcom sycophants,masquerading as media teeheehee, the crocodiles are at the door of our esteemed PM.
” but the paid-for stories and the lack of disclaimers make it clear that they are not the ethical standards usually expected of a Journalist.
Slater seems to have no interest in fixing this and so when you read WhaleOil you need to be careful and think each time you look at a story, who paid for it.”
I’m not defending Slater with my comments here.
But what you just described is what lobbyists like Mathew Hooten and others have been doing for decades. The difference is Slater puts the PR spin on his website –Hooten and co. get it put into the MSM.
In fact, how much of the MSM’s so called stories these days are just press releases with the name of the “author” changed —answer = a lot. That is why all these organisations have massive communication departments.
I’ve noticed more people having a go at Slater in recent days over this ‘paid for’ angle. Wendel Nissan (sp?) was blabbering about it on Hoskings show yesterday –wasn’t she the editor of Woman’s Day or a similar mag. where they paid for exclusive stories
( yes I know it is the reverse but still paid for news , PR) . Andy Haden has made fortune over the years from the likes of Nissan and co.
I think when truth comes out we’ll find that Hager has essentially done the same thing –been paid by someone to spin all the BS to that person / organisation’s advantage.
The gap between Hong Kong’s rich and the rest of the population is widening as surging asset prices shield the wealthy from an economic contraction.
The CHART OF THE DAY shows gauges of stock and home prices in the city have more than doubled since 2008 to record highs. While the median household income rose 25 percent in the period, lifted by the introduction of a minimum wage in 2011, the total increase was just 4 percentage points above the rate of inflation. The lower panel shows Hong Kong’s economy shrank in the second quarter compared with the previous three months.
Rising asset prices have helped make Hong Kong home to the highest concentration of multimillionaires on earth — and create the world’s most unaffordable housing market. Property developers Li Ka-shing and Lee Shau-kee, Asia’s richest in the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, have grown their wealth by at least $1.9 billion each this year. One in five of the city’s residents lives in poverty, the government said last year.
Teen wins powerful support after quitting job
By Christine Allen – NORTHERN ADVOCATE
6:00 AM Saturday Aug 23, 2014
Whangarei Intermediate pupils perform a haka outside KiwiYo on Friday. Whangarei Intermediate pupils perform a haka outside KiwiYo on Friday.
The Race Relations Commissioner and the Maori Language Commission are backing a young Whangarei woman who quit her job and joined a mass protest after she was told not to greet customers with a traditional “kia ora”.
• Teen quits job after boss tells her not to say ‘kia ora’ http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11313018
So the hopeless Race Relations Commissar who couldn’t defend her stance on racism the other day now comes out in support of an employee who wouldn’t behave as her employment contract required.
“Journalists make at least some effort to be objective…”
Here’s the thing: I’m objective, which means, for example, that I call socialism for what it is – an immoral system of control based on coercion, inevitably controlled by special-interest groups for their own profit. And I identify the Labour Party as such a vehicle of corruption.
So being objective doesn’t mean having no opinions. It means having informed, fact-based, rational opinions.
There’s a good line from a must-read piece about the precipitous decline in newspaper circulation (“Last Call: The end of the printed newspaper”):
‘My friend Jay Rosen writes about the media’s “production of innocence” when covering a contentious issue, they must signal to the readers “We have no idea who’s right.”‘
If this is another ‘but they do it as well’, you have missed the point spectacularly.
Your link is some obscure text that, apart from a few religious nutters and people like you, nobody cares about.
You (of course, yeah right) know that the verse I quoted is part of article seven of the ‘Charter of Allah: The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement’.
The charter of an organisation that governs Gaza today, namely Hamas.
As for “Remember Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews!”
This was chanted by Turkish activists on the day before the Gaza flotilla confronted the Israeli navy and refers to the massacre of Jews.
IGM (52 comments) says:
August 22nd, 2014 at 9:18 am
I should hate to be in a situation where I was close to either Campbell or a Fairfax/APN scribe, I would not be able to control my emotions . . . and they would not be far from friendly.
this was from yesterday and i had a thought IGMs extreme hate felt posts sometimes make me happy that i hope IGM dosnt have access to guns, and isnt near schools with cloth caped LEECHER teachers who should all be shot but if the MSM focused on some of the hate nutters who post on Mr Farrars blog and who has the ear of key,another PR problem could appear,RIGHT WING VIOLENT NUTTERS
Anyhow, there must, of course, be some reasonably innocent explanation for these very unfortunate recurring Odgers associations with major international white collar crime, other than that Odgers is a crook. Coming up with something else that’s plausible stumps me, I must admit. For instance, Odgers doesn’t appear to be an idiot; not, at any rate, in the formal sense of having a very low IQ. Whatever the explanation is, it will have to be something more complicated than that.
So, worst case: Odgers is a crook, directly involved in Russian mafia moneylaundering, a $1Billion US Ponzi scheme, and the largest pension fraud in Australian history. If that’s how it is, then Key, via Whale Oil, looks a little too close to her.
Best case: Odgers is a monumentally oblivious idiot, with an astonishing knack for working with, or for, large-scale fraudsters, again and again. Even in that best case, and somehow discounting Trio Capital and the Russians altogether, it’s still only two steps from the Prime Minister to the crooks (Key => Whaleoil/Odgers => Flader/Jeeves), and that $1Billion US Ponzi, and $314Million in US penalties.
That’s snug, best case or worst, but in the very particular context of dubious politicians’ connections, not unusually intimate. So could the Odgers part of the Whale Oil story really blow back to Key and the election, in the end?
I’d be astonished if, by itself, it made any difference at all to voter intentions. It’s just another piece of a not-great picture. But many media hands are at work adorning that picture, so let’s see how it looks in a week or two’s time.
Several chats with several blokes today about the election. National wins! No doubt!
What about all this Hager stuff I asked.
Media bullshit, was the unanimous response.
And this is from a collection of Maori, European, self employed, wage earners, apprentices, salary earners, unemployed, retired, farmers, all walks of life.
The possibility is becoming a probability that the big losers on 20th September will be Silent T and the credibility of the main stream media.
The collective response was at odds with what I have been hearing on National Radio and other radio stations, and what I have read in many newspapers.
Okay, it is not a scientific poll. No women were involved. They had scones to bake.
The only reason I go to whale oil now is to witness the train wreck it has become. I suspect it will be on my can’t be assed list very soon.
Your privilege dime but you’ll be missing perhaps not the only but certainly the most truly fearless journalist in NZ. Name anyone else who publishes “all the news fit to print” just like used to happen, before all the corporates bought them out and they went all girly.
And if you as the reader can’t sort the wheat from the chaff then you’re not the dime I know.
And who gives a flying if that’s how he chooses to run his own news site?
They give a damn about you purporting to be someone you’re not, simply because he’s trying to get accredited. What about that don’t you understand? And what about that is wrong?
Of course the little girlies in the “proper” journalist’s club don’t like that one little bit. What they want is someone lukewarm like them, whose prepared to get with the program.
Like Simon Dallow.
And who wants to get “news” from someone like him? That’s not news, that’s baby milk fed to children who can’t digest the hard stuff, disguised as news.
“I know it has been said before but how the fuck did Katie Bradford get a job on TV One (aka Labour Party TV) as a political journalist given her communist links?
As if that is not bad enough I have just watched her chase Judith Collins down a hallway shrieking the same question to Collins over and over again.”
Mate I’ve said it over and over again- The employment of hardcore political activist Katie Bradford to masquerade as a ‘Journalist’ is a low point in TVNZ History..She doesn’t even pretend to be ‘impartial’ (have a look at her Twitter account one day- it is bloody frightening)
Only a matter of time before she appears on a Mana or Greens list.
Tauhei Notts. 6.43pm. I agree … I am hearing similar noises from a mixture of people from all walks of life I work and socialise with. Some are old labour who would never vote right but are turned off from voting by the snivelling two faced prick who is apologising for everything. The ladies all agreed that he was sleazy and creepy.
Ah yes, the self styles “words greatest sporting team” are playing again tonight. After a week of extreme arrogance and “the ref robbed us” I wonder if anybody in that organisation, or the sycophantic rugby media have yet worked out that the Ockers played quite well.
Still, never mind. I fully expect there to be a repeat of last week, the Ockers will outplay the “worlds greatest sporting team” and yet the Ref will find a way to ensure that the “worlds greatest sporting team” manage to end the game with more points that the opposition.
The highly over rated captain of the NZ team will be outplayed by his opposite number, the highly over rated captain will be get away with breaking many of the games laws yet again he will not be yellow carded because he is the captain of the “worlds greatest sporting team”
Bruv- Steve ‘Mumbles’ Hansen having a crack at the Ref was a fucking joke- considering how many games recently his allegedly ‘invincible’ side have been bailed out by terrified referees (Think the last minute farce against Ireland last year)..
This current side must be the most arrogant NZ sports team since the World Cup debacle…(Ali Williams sneering and mocking the French before the final- Then also bailed out by a terrified Ref which was the only thing that saved them..)
Oh look stigfly and longflys the got no life non identity small dick loser club wants a flame war to start with me and Graham the no hoper big bigot blouse. Yawn, yawn get a life you sad freaks , what silly bunts!
Please bb club of JELLYFISH tick me down you pathetic wimps.
Reid – the tone of that Pete shit head sickens me.
They need to be credible as a proper media source dime. That’s where he’s coming from.
Possibly he’s ultra-strict because Cam’s trying to break into a club who will use every single thing they can to deny him entry.
But the way Cam is playing it their options are running out.
Good job, because the media need to re-learn their jobs as we all know.
With few notable exceptions, like Fran and Phil Kitchener and a small handful of others, every single reporter has become a repeater and that’s just de rigeur, part of how they do business.
Well fuck that mate.
I’m not interested in tolerating that, in this country.
I want insight, I want fearlessness, I want penetration into every lousy nook and cranny 24/7/365 and I’m not getting it and I haven’t been for many decades now.
Lots of people are like me and the reason I think that is because if the media acted like my last sentence then their readership wouldn’t have gone South like we all know it has.
So fuck em.
If they’re not prepared to engage their professional ethics to do the job they pretend they do, then get the fuck out of the way and let someone who is prepared to do such do it.
And “professional ethics” means: printing ALL the news that’s fit to print, not just the news which suits your own, or your editor’s, political predisposition.
THAT is what has caused mass-media desertion.
Freedom from that, is what Cam represents. As a crack in the door.
He’s not perfect in that regard of course, but he’s the crack in the door that opens the floodgates to getting back to what we used to have, before all the p.c. nancies and before all the money started pretending that they knew better than we did, how to think.
Bruv- You mean the ten minutes of tongue poking, googly eyed hissing and spitting with the ‘oh so scary’ throat slitting gesture at the end?
What a fucking joke. Yet when the Welsh ask to sing after it (and on their home ground at that!) the All Blacks scream blue murder “They are disrespecting our Culture Waah”
Ha! The chance of any of the allegedly ‘invincible’ All Blacks getting even a yellow card at Eden Park must be 100-1!
Even the odds on them ‘letting off some steam’ tomorrow at Auckland Zoo blasting at Zebras and Elephants with shotguns are much,much shorter…
big bruv. I understand that the ex AB from Auckland … Mills something.. Is back in town to give advice to Hansen. You know the role model for our youth who used piss on the legs of unsuspecting patrons on city bars. A class act almost as bad as the other idiot that jumped on the BMW after they lost the World Cup in France. Aussie by 8.
Shit.. First penalty to Aussie. Looking good so soon.
Bruv- Martin Snedden told us that “The World Was watching” before the World Cup final and that there were over a billion viewers!!
Yet it barely raised a snippet in the big International papers…How odd! Aren’t the All Blacks the ‘most famous brand in World Sports’??
Someone is lying to us….
4.0 Mins. Ref now feels he needs to even things up a bit. Letting the NZ team away with passing the ball forward did not result in points so he felt it was time to gift the NZ team three points. No booing for the NZ kicker. 3-3
“Don’t forget the other NZ player who thought it was OK to assault his wife.”
Jesus which one? There have been so many!
Since Graham Henry and his moronic sidekick Hansen took over and the ‘Culture of Arrogance’ crept into the once mighty All Blacks there have been bloody shitloads of All Blacks arrested for violence/drunk driving etc etc
23.0 mins. Oh no, despite my initial hope it appears that the Ref has been got at. An Aussie player sent to the bin for ten mins simply because the ref decided he needs to even things up for binning the cheating NZ captain. There is justice though as the NZ player misses the kick. 9-6
27.0. Real sports fans may as well turn off the TV right now. The ref is so worried about the NZ teams play that he is now giving them seven points for no reason at all. Has Lou Vincent been chatting with the ref prior to the game? 16-6
The overwhelming response to Bruv’s unbiased commentary just confirms that most New Zealanders have had an absolute gutsful of the sickening arrogance of the self professed ‘Greatest Sports Team in the History of the Universe’…
Especially your mate Ritchie Big Daddy! Over-rated cheating joke that he is…
30.0 Mins. This ref is a disgrace. Ref allows a blatant head high tackle by the NZ number ten to go unpunished and then makes sure that the ‘worlds greatest sporting team’ is gifted another seven points. This is embarrassing for NZ rugby. 23-6
39.0 Mins. This ref is quite cunning. He will rule a knock on against the NZ team just as long as it is not in a scoring position.
Perhaps this is how you get the big games, you pretend to be even handed but manage to ensure a NZ victory.
Bruv- I read in the media last night that Hansen was calling an “urgent meeting” with tonight’s ref BEFORE the game! (following last weeks draw)
Hence my prediction that a terrified referee would save the All Black’s again tonight…
Half time and proud to be an All Black fan. To the jellyfish and cowardly bb tick club please feel free to continue with your unhinged and mentally deranged rhetoric because it will be good future reference. Why do we let so many Ockers migrate here?
D4J- I am a New Zealander born and bred. I played rugby for over twenty years and used to love supporting the All Blacks. Was also a sports journalist for a while…
Ever stopped to think why so many Kiwis just like me absolutely detest the team and all the arrogant bullshit surrounding them nowadays??
Second half Kick off. Surprised the ABs did not want to perform another bloody rain dance. Switching off this crap and going to watch a touch of Frost on TV and have a couple of gins. I am confident the ABs will choke.
50.0 Mins. Any hope that it might be a fair game in the second half given that the ref has already decided it will be a NZ win are dashed as the NZ team score a try when they were guilty of killing the ball in a previous phase.
We need the IRB to investigate this game, it is highly embarrassing to all real sporting fans. 30-6
58.0 Mins. It now appears that the NZ team do not have to throw the ball in straight either. Despite TV evidence clearly showing the ball has not crossed the line the ref awards the try. Arrogant NZ team already waiting on half way. A sporting tragedy is unfolding before our very eyes at Eden Park. 44-6
I wonder how many poor buggers will be assaulted tonight by pissed NZ rugby team members out enjoying a few beers and letting off a bit of steam?
“I wonder how many poor buggers will be assaulted tonight by pissed NZ rugby team members out enjoying a few beers and letting off a bit of steam?”
Their track record isn’t too flash D4J! Most of them are proven to be violent mongrels..
At the very least Sam Whitelock will be drunkenly trying to get into the Zoo at Western Springs to put a few bullets into the Elephants and Lions there to prove once and for all what a ‘mighty hunter’ he is….
The question I posed was this. The Aussie’s had scored six points at halftime, this is the same number of restraining orders issued against a certain contributor here at Kiwiblog. Can you name that contributor?
As we predicted Bruv! Another terrified referee…
Look for the media tomorrow to rave about how this is the ‘Greatest All Black team EVER’ and the All Blacks themselves to start talking themselves up again like they usually do…’We are the Greatest Sports Team in the History of the Universe’ etc etc
The All Blacks I supported when I was a kid (Dalton,Shelford, Fitzy etc) NEVER made such dubious claims- they were hard bastards who would put their bodies on the line for their country. Not like the arrogant McCaw and Co who rely on dubious refs to pull them out of the shit and let them away with blatantly cheating…
Well said Knives. It could have been a great game, it could have been a fantastic spectacle. All we need to do is find a ref who is not afraid of the All Blacks.
The IRB should send international refs to Sydney the week before a game in NZ. That way they would not be subject to the usual bullshit from our media of the ‘worlds greatest sporting team’. On the day of the game the ref should be flown in to NZ and not have his identity known to anybody but a few within the IRB until kick off time.
That might be the only way we are going to get a fair game.
No longflies I am about to go out and celebrate with friends. I suggest you try and stop whining and try and get some sort of life. You don’t want to end like Graham Shaw ( big bruv) and be so consumed by hatred you become the laughing stock of kiwiblog. Do try and get a life.
LK and BB will be pleased they spent last night at the gates in order to be first into the stadium, and manage to get right in front of the cameras doing their haka just before kick off. Well done lads.
For the most part anything goes on this blog. Except for one thing. As far as I am concerned, it’s a golden rule. No-one discloses someone else’s pseudonym. No ifs. No buts. It just doesn’t happen. OK?
Nookin (3,160 comments) says:
August 23rd, 2014 at 9:45 pm
For the most part anything goes on this blog. Except for one thing. As far as I am concerned, it’s a golden rule. No-one discloses someone else’s pseudonym. No ifs. No buts. It just doesn’t happen. OK?
It’s OK Nookin, like Big Bruv on the rugby he was wrong.
“I think it’s my duty as a loyal New Zealander to expose the real name of such traitorous scum that continually undermine a rugby team that brings so much joy to the majority of sane kiwis.”
Seriously?? You need help mate!
Bruv reckons you have had a few run-ins with the law- I couldn’t care less. You are entitled to your anonymity in this chatroom.
But you want to ‘expose us’ simply because we don’t support the same sports team as you??
Holy hell that’s twisted…
How wrong you are. I despise patriotism, I despise nationalism of any type. I don’t get all warm and fuzzy inside when somebody from NZ does something great just because they are a Kiwi.
I judge people on their deeds, I judge them as humans, not on where they come from. As an example I think that one of the greatest people on the planet is Willie Apiata, he is not special because he is a Kiwi, he is special because of what he did and who he is.
I am not proud to be a Kiwi, I am proud to be a member of the human race. It is a pity that more do not think the same way.
My temper is that bad I am crying with laughter at the jellyfish kiwi blog community talking crap again because they got no lives. I am off to have a good laugh and drink with friends. Try not to hang yourselves you sad no life cretins.
BB. McCaw and the ref will be cracking their second botle of Dom P tonight. I lip read and saw him say to the ref after game ….. Thanks Dad. Could be wrong and he may have said Dad 4 Justice. Some thing about a flying fuck.
duggledog (1,417 comments) says:
August 23rd, 2014 at 8:11 am
At the moment, the Prime Minister is wondering why the f*** he would bother trying to help this country out when he doesn’t need to
at the moment im thinking why the fuck are you bothering also, id rather you didn’t bother for me thanks, you aint got nothing i want. OH yeah there’s $ to be fleeced, to put with my already bluging hoard . isnt hoarding a mental illness?
AB’s thrash Australia & retain Bledisloe Cup, again. Russel Norman seen crying for his flag at the TAB and saying it was unfair that he lost his money. Cunliffe apologises for being a New Zealander, Hone swears at the racist white mothafucka All Blacks. Harre calls it a misogynist game & DotCon swears to destroy Ritchie McCaw. MSM reports that Collins called Slater first after the win, calls it “dirty rugby”. Hager seen selling his mouth & arse to the highest bidder on K’Rd, Minto calls for the bus & train drivers to go on strike while placing kids in front of bombs at the Eden Park Primary School.
John Key congratulates the team on a good game well won.