General Debate 2 August 2014

August 2nd, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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266 Responses to “General Debate 2 August 2014”

  1. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    The lefty Tom Scott doing his bit for the Greens: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/cartoons/

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  2. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Neville bennet on Crafar 1

    The case of the Crafar Farms, or more especially public interest in the possibility that the receivers might sell them to Chinese interest, raises issues.

    The push-me-pull-you Crafar episode goes to the heart of our malaise. We know that it is relatively easy for foreign companies to buy large swathes of our land and use it for their own purposes. Public opinion is probably against the Crafar farms going into Chinese control.

    The opposition is rarely motivated by fears of China as such, there would be opposition to any foreign buyer because they would use ‘our’ land for their own purpose, and eventually we would end up as peons or serfs in our own country. This may be overstating the admittedly more complex array of sentiment on the issue but it touches on a core thread in the blogs.

    The assumption in this case is that land is a scarce resource. NZ has large quantities of prime land that is cheap by international standards but once the land has been alienated, its holding costs are ridiculously low.

    Moreover, as the holding cost of land is low, there is a tendency for landholdings to increase in size. This is especially clear in the case of dairying.

    Dairying was once the preserve of small family farms, mostly in the Waikato, who developed local cooperatives. But the rewards of scale meant farms grew larger to maximise use of capital invested in fencing, walkways, mechanization, milking sheds etc. But family farming is not dominant in dairying, especially in the new frontiers of Canterbury and Southland; the corporates are now the driving force. I imagine that it is very difficult for the hard-working couple to break into dairy farming.

    Dairy farming is remarkable because it pays so little tax. There has been a good debate on this in interest.co.nz. I merely want to stress that our system taxes only the ‘profits’ to an operation after very generous allowances of ‘expenses’. The land owners also get access to untaxed water.

    This system is leading to huge land accumulations and I believe huge ranches or whatever are not desirable in the long run as few people get an opportunity to buy land.

    I believe that countries with a more inclusive land policy are much better. We have come away from our traditions where the state broke up large estates to give ‘little people’ a fair go.

    We only mutter darkly too when eastern potentates buy up large tranches of South Island high country to build nice little lodges where they can almost domesticate game animals for the rich to shoot. No holding costs of course.

    We see nothing wrong too in rich guys buying land for exclusive golf courses. No holding costs, of course but a lot of supporters.

    What is to be done?

    We need a land tax to broaden revenue (and lower income tax) but particularly to check large accumulations and to increase output. I have argued this before.

    A useful quote comes from Thomas Jefferson, one of the drafters of the American constitution

    Another means of silently lessening the inequality of [landed] property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise. — Thomas Jefferson

    I think a case could be made for a light tax on rent: the great earlier economists believed so.

    Ground rents are a species of revenue which the owner, in many cases, enjoys without any care or attention of his own. Ground rents are, therefore, perhaps a species of revenue which can best bear to have a peculiar tax imposed upon them. — Adam Smith

    With the editors indulgence, I will write further on land in economic theory to stimulate debate on our predicament. I will particularly address the thought of the great John Stuart Mill who said:

    “When the sacredness of property is talked of, it should always be remembered that any such sacredness does not belong in the same degree to landed property. No man made the land: it is the inheritance of the whole species.”

    But I think we need to go further and increase community control of land. My text will be from J.S.Mill:

    “The land of Ireland, the land of every country, belongs to the people of that country.”

    http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/53668/opinion-land-crisis

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  3. EAD (1,087 comments) says:

    It’s what I’ve been saying all along – the parallels to 1914 are getting more and more ominous:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11003506/Todays-parallels-with-1914-are-very-worrying.html

    What is encouraging is the fact that people are waking up to the lies and propaganda of the Western Media. The following is the top rated comment by a long way on the Telegraph which has probably the most intelligent and engaged conservative audience in the world and this comment calls out the journalist for his blatant anti Russia propaganda:

    “The media are intent on demonising Putin for aggressive expansionism even though there hasn’t actually been any – it’s the EU that is guilty.

    This is going to lead to disaster. NATO or the EU will make some rash commitments guarenteeing the Ukraine’s independence, thinking that this will teach Putin “a lesson”. The fascists in Ukraine will then be emboldened and will launch even more vicious attacks on the Russian population there. Putin will not be able to stand by and watch his countrymen massacred and hey presto – WWIII.

    You are all quite mad. And it is you journalists that are driving it. Are you really so stupid that you can’t see what’s happening or do you just not care?”

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  4. wiseowl (895 comments) says:

    Listening to some of the comments regarding the sale of Lochinver Station would totally confuse any New Zealander that may have concerns about becoming tenants in our own country.

    It is not that this may be sold along with the Crafar Farms, it is a question of where do we draw the line.How much land do we sell to foreign interests before we say enough.?

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  5. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    From The New Zealand Herald, the HAMAS propaganda portal in New Zealand

    A 72-hour ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militant groups in the Gaza Strip was broken last night after less than three hours.
    Israeli shelling killed eight people in southern Gaza, medics said, just hours after the humanitarian ceasefire took effect.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11302838

    Did Israel break the ceasefire?
    Well, if HAMAS says it, it must be right.
    Those poor ‘Palestinians ™” and those nasty Jews.
    http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8076.htm#_edn1
    http://time.com/author/steven-stotsky/

    All news coverage was approved by the Hamas Interior Ministry and a compliant New Zealand HAMAS editor-in-chief, Tim Murphy.

    Now for the real news:

    Overnight there was another humanitarian cease-fire between Israel and Hamas, and Hamas broke it with about 70.5 hours still on the clock.
    A Hamas attack on IDF soldiers in southern Gaza, which occurred an hour and a half after the start of a humanitarian truce, ended with the suspected kidnapping of a soldier, the IDF said Friday.
    Second Lt. Hadar Goldin, a 23-year-old Givati officer from Kfar Saba, was named as the IDF soldier presumed to be abducted by Hamas. His family has been notified.
    Two other soldiers were killed during the incident. Their families have been notified.
    Terrorists emerged from a tunnel shaft, and a suicide bomber detonated himself in the vicinity of soldiers. Heavy exchanges of fire ensued, before one of the IDF soldiers was kidnapped, a senior army source said.
    Hamas used one of the tunnels, some of the tunnels reportedly have entrances inside UN facilities, that it built with child labour to perpetrate this attack. The Israelis say that they have discovered 35 such tunnels, and have destroyed about half of them.

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    It’s both hilarious and sad to watch lefties hating on Jonah Lomu for daring to publicly support John Key. The level of vitriol is similar to that of Darien Fenton when she turned on Sir Peter “Mad Butcher” Leitch for a similar “crime” before the 2011 election. One thing Labour hates is class traitors…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/jonah-endorses-john.html

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  7. oldpark (331 comments) says:

    Same newspaper Dom-Post. Gomerel Cunliffe putting the boot into John Banks.Gomerel is completely sophistic about John,hiding the fact that he ran a secret trust with secret donors and refuses to name them.The difference here is, a drop kick from Wellington, and the slippery MSM have pursued John Banks for something nothing to do with parliament.MSM have given Gomerel Cunliffe a complete leave pass for his guilt and omission with not having the blow torch put on him,even though the trust and its secret donors happened in parliament.

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  8. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    EAD, utterly ridiculous. At least the West does not murder it’s investigative journalists and whistleblowers that is pah for the course in Putin’s Russia.
    Your posts here and links to say Zero Hedge, Global Reserach and Paul Craig Roberts put a lie to Western media bias .
    1914 is a very different world than now and incidentally Russia then was allied with Britain and France against the central powers of Germany, Austria- Hungaria and Italy.
    Wonder what side you’d have chosen.?

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  9. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    How much land do we sell to foreign interests before we say enough.?

    Who’s this “we”?

    You didn’t own the land before. You don’t own it now.

    It’s none of your business.

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  10. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Wat dabney
    You didn’t own the land before. You don’t own it now.

    It’s none of your business.
    …………………………….
    Neville Bennet:
    With the editors indulgence, I will write further on land in economic theory to stimulate debate on our predicament. I will particularly address the thought of the great John Stuart Mill who said:

    “When the sacredness of property is talked of, it should always be remembered that any such sacredness does not belong in the same degree to landed property. No man made the land: it is the inheritance of the whole species.”

    But I think we need to go further and increase community control of land. My text will be from J.S.Mill:

    “The land of Ireland, the land of every country, belongs to the people of that country.”

    http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/53668/opinion-land-crisis

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  11. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    It’s a small point, but New Zealand was at one time the ‘Breadbasket of the (British) Empire’ until Mr. Heath came along and took Britain into the EU.

    Goodbye ‘Canterbury Lamb’.

    Now it’s China’s turn, and we will fulfill the same role for Bejing and the emerging Chinese Empire.

    (Hello New Zealand dairy products…)

    Nothing’s changed, except the imperial ‘master’s and a nation’s got to do, what a nation’s got to do…

    As I said, It’s a small point, but an important one…

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  12. EAD (1,087 comments) says:

    You are right Stephie, this is unlike 1914 in that we have a wide range of news sources so we can bypass the approved “facts” as passed onto us by the propaganda-filled newspapers.

    You criticise my choice of links – the one I linked to was the Telegraph. What do you want me to link to – the NZ Herald as a source of truth (despite the numerous times it has been called out lying on this very blog)?

    Have a read of this article on Zerohedge. For a moment, ignore the source and read it with an objective eye and think “does this author have a point”? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-31/wests-reckless-rush-towards-war-russia

    Even if you don’t read the article, consider these 4 short paragraphs from it:

    “Nonetheless, despite the lack of solid, verified and credible evidence, the current narrative has now been embedded firmly in the media cycle and nearly everyone on the streets of the US, UK and most European nations will tell you that Putin and/or Russia was responsible.

    It’s a fact of modern life that most people really don’t pay close attention to important world events. Due to that lack of engagement, even the most patently obvious lies can quickly become entrenched in the public mind as truth if touted by mainstream news outlets.

    Here now in July 2014, there is a rush towards war similar to those that proceeded Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003. Important questions are not being asked by the media, our once again missing-in-action fourth estate, and unsubstantiated and unverified political talking points are simply being reprinted as facts.

    At this stage, all we know is: the West thinks that Russia is bad, and Putin is worse. But, given the stakes involved, we all deserve to know more than that. A lot more. We deserve proper and complete answers.”

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  13. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Other Andy
    They have no plan to stop until every Israeli is dead. The west just gives them more opportunities to continue under the guise of the religion of peace.

    They lasted about 1 hour before they launched some rockets. Israel returns fire and gets blamed for breaching the truce.

    A Russia Today reporter has been kicked out of Gaza for tweeting the location of launcher sites near his hotel.

    The bottom of the biggest hospital is the Hamas command and control centre and of course can’t be touched by Israel

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  14. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Phil Goff has also risen on Facebook to attack Israel and that great MP Asraf Coudrey has chimed in

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  15. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    hj,

    The land of Ireland, the land of every country, belongs to the people of that country.

    Are you saying J.S Mill was a Communist?

    The quotation refers to sovereignty.

    And if something belongs to you then, by definition, you can choose to sell it. Sovereignty remains unchanged.

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  16. kiwigunner (230 comments) says:

    New Zealand’s own Charter School Success story.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1408/S00011/close-whangaruru-charter-school-now.htm

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  17. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Wat
    have you any knowledge of history?
    Are you aware of the times in history when the land was owned by rich land lords and worked by powerless serfs.

    We risk this being the future for us in New Zealand.

    Given no alternative but to work for pittance while the fruit of our collective labor is used to prop up lifestyles of landlords far removed from here.

    It is easy to skew profit so as any made is not taxed in this country.

    New Zealand still runs on the rural sector profits.

    China does not allow us to buy up her most productive land.

    Why should we allow Chinese to buy up our land?

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  18. publicwatchdog (2,597 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  19. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    As Regular As Clockwork The *Independant* NZIER calls for more immigration as a panacea for [people living off] the regions:

    “NZIER’s Shamubeel Eaqub says recruiting young immigrants could help address problems in the provinces where there are more old people than Japan
    http://www.interest.co.nz/news/70994/nziers-shamubeel-eaqub-says-recruiting-young-immigrants-could-help-address-problems-provi#comment-783793

    Despite the idea having been debunked [except in the liberal media]
    eg the Australian Productivity Commision:

    It is also a fallacy that higher immigration counteracts population ageing. Beyond an annual immigration level of around 100 000 people, the demographic benefits have been shown to diminish greatly, with migrants impacting much more on the size of the population than on its age structure. The main reason is that migrants age too! We would need to bring in increasingly more of them to ‘backfill’ the age structure over time. Indeed, the Commission calculated that to preserve the current age profile of the population, the immigration-to-population ratio would need to rise to three per cent (triple its peak of 2008-9). This would make Australia a population ‘super-power’ of 100+ million people by mid-century!

    and Treasury Paper 14-10

    Changing Policy Expectations:
    At that time, it was considered that skills-focused inward migration could: improve growth
    by bringing in better quality human capital and addressing skills shortages; improve
    international connections and boost trade; help mitigate the effects of population ageing;
    and have beneficial effects on fiscal balance. As well as “replacing” departing
    New Zealanders and providing particular help with staffing public services (for example,
    medical professionals), it was believed that migration flows could be managed so as to
    avoid possible detrimental effects (such as congestion or poorer economic prospects) for
    existing New Zealanders.
    Since then, New Zealand has had substantial gross and net immigration, which has been
    relatively skill-focused by international standards. However, New Zealand’s economic
    performance has not been transformed. Growth in GDP per capita has been relatively
    lacklustre, with no progress in closing income gaps with the rest of the advanced world,
    and productivity performance has been poor. It may be that initial expectations about the
    potential positive net benefits of immigration were too high.
    Based on a large body of new research evidence and practical experience, the consensus
    among policymakers now is that other factors are more important for per capita growth
    23
    and productivity than migration and population growth. CGE modelling exercises for
    Australia and New Zealand have been influential in reshaping expectations.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10
    Andrea Vance was dismissive of Treasury Paper 14-10 as the work of “policy wonks” which “got them “all excited” > You have to wonder how *independant* our journalists are?

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  20. Simon (724 comments) says:

    “Why should we allow Chinese to buy up our land?”

    Not “our land”. You speak for no one you collectivist shut in.

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  21. Don the Kiwi (1,758 comments) says:

    As Other Andy says, Hamas breached the ceasefire after 1 -1/2 hours.

    What a slimy bunch of lying cheating murderers they are. Same as our troops discovered in WW I, you simply can’t trust them.
    Cowardly scum that hide behind children.

    I wonder how long Israel will restrain itself? I think this will now mean that Israel will re-occupy Gaza, execute evry Hamas member and establish some peace there. It was a mistake handing it back in 2005.

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  22. oldpark (331 comments) says:

    @Southern Raider.Yes Goff is one of NZs original Hamas Huggers.He hugged Yasser Arafat,and slipped him $500,000 DOLLARS of NZ Taxpayer dollars allegedly, to help Hamas buy guns to attack a sovereign nation called Israel .

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  23. Nookin (3,345 comments) says:

    Probably won’t make any difference at all penny. Most reasonable and rational people respect that everyone has a right to justice and to appeal. Most people know that Act asked him to stand down when it became clear that there was a case to answer. Most people know that what he did had nothing whatsoever to do with Act and even less to do with National. To illustrate, have you read any polls in the last 6 months?

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  24. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Hamas is losing its war against Israel militarily, as it knew it would. But by co-opting the pathetic Western media – and by the Western media adopting Hamas’ line – Hamas is winning the battle of world opinion, thereby making more civilian deaths, both Jewish and Arab, an inevitability.
    The world media – and the politicians who act in accordance with them — have blood on their hands for providing the only true support Hamas has left.

    Hamas Issues Social Media Guidelines: Dead are Always “Innocent Civilians”
    http://www.thetower.org/0731-hamas-issues-social-media-guidelines-dead-are-always-innocent-civilians/

    How Hamas Wields Gaza’s Casualties as Propaganda
    http://time.com/author/steven-stotsky/

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  25. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Apparently no one told the stupid Germans with their “powerhouse” economy how pointless immigration is.

    “The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-new-land-of-opportunity-for-immigrants-is-germany/2014/07/27/93464262-7eff-4931-817c-786db6d21ec8_story.html

    Still, you keep dishonestly posting your carefully cherry-picked pieces if it makes you feel better, hj.

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  26. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    It’s what I’ve been saying all along – the parallels to 1914 are getting more and more ominous:

    Oh phooey. Who will be the opposing factions?

    As for economic meltdown, still waitin for the EU to collapse which so many Kblog punters were saying was imminent a few years back.

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  27. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    simon
    I love butt hurt wing nuts.
    :lol:

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  28. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Southern Raider says at 8:43 am

    Now, that wouldn’t be the same Ashraf Choudhary who refused to condemn the stoning to death of homosexuals and people who had extra-marital affairs in a television interview on TV3’s 60 Minutes, would it?

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  29. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    So is JS Mill saying it is ok for English landlords to own Irish land?

    He’s saying that sovereignty should remain with the Irish.

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  30. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “What is encouraging is the fact that people are waking up to the lies and propaganda of the Western Media.”

    The Western media, like all media, is slightly biased, largely in a liberal direction, but that is the most that could be said.

    The Russian media is on the other hand under the control of the Kremlin, and thus totally unreliable.

    I find it fascinating that some people claiming to be libertarians and pro-capitalists will decry the West’s largely private media, but will swallow anything spouted by a media under totalitarian state control.

    At some point in the last 10 – 20 years parts of the libertarian movement, especially that part associated with the Austrian School, has descended into the same gutter as the extreme left. The West is always wrong. Aggressive tyrants like Putin, a man trying to build a racialist version of the Soviet Union, is “misunderstood” and the victim of the West. Israel is always wrong. Terrorist attacks on the West are really “false flags” and so on.

    There are a number of reasons for this, but to a degree I blame Justin Raimondo, a “libertarian” who runs the site antiwar.com and who has turned parts of the libertarian movement into the equivalent of Left wing apologists for Stalin.

    Again, it’s the horseshoe effect. The extreme fringes of both Left and Right are more alike than either would like to admit.

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  31. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Hi hj – bet ol’ Winston was fuming that Craig beat him to the punch over the Latest Big Farm Sale to the Evil Chinese.

    Better pull out the old Crafer Farms chestnut to try to divert attention eh?

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  32. wiseowl (895 comments) says:

    “We ” wat I guess is the genuine New Zealander who feels a connection.

    One may ‘own’ the land while present on it but one only looks after it for future generations.
    Why do so many other countries not allow sales of land to foreigners and maybe if there is reciprocation then that is something?

    I would personally like to see Landcorp farms sold but to kiwis who have a desire to get on the land not to corporates or overseas interests.
    The other point is we are a very small country and could become tenants in our own country in a very short time of allowed.

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  33. Gulag1917 (920 comments) says:

    Henry Kissinger’s Most Maniacal Quotes
    http://silencednomore.com/tag/henry-kissinger/

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  34. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Goff is going to come off second best.

    The Israeli PM once drew the UN a picture of a bomb with a felt pen. I wouldn’t want to be responsable for putting crap in to the hands of the media blaming Israel for dead child Palestinians.

    When the dust settles, the media, and others who have opened there mouths, will get one hell of a fucken serve by Israel. What Goff has said is now already stored in Israel.

    Israel has certainly meet the left’s propaganda where informing the public is concerned. The ADF was called the most moral army in history by a British Commander, and everyone of the ADF’s operations has been opened to media scrutiny in real time or immediatly afterwards, where millitary staff told them exactly what they had done and why, and what munitions they had used and why ect ect. They pack guided missles so as to do direct and little damage.

    And that is probably why the msm is not laying it on, as they don’t want to get caught out, and get dealt with.

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  35. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,674 comments) says:
    August 2nd, 2014 at 8:48 am

    hj,

    Are you saying J.S Mill was a Communist?

    The quotation refers to sovereignty.

    And if something belongs to you then, by definition, you can choose to sell it. Sovereignty remains unchanged.
    ….
    J S Mill is saying the land was there before people arrived and that it is just that it belongs to the people of that country. JS Mill doesn’t figure the imbalances of populations in the 21st century or globalisation. I don’t think JS Mill would mind a North Islander selling to a South Islander or (possibly) Australian to NZ’r as we are fairly equal in living standards and to the degree that we have an equal exchange between the two countries.
    I don’t think JS Mill would approve of Bayley’s Lament:
    “New Zealander’s just can’t afford these prices” [talking about a point with cabbage tree jutting into the sea].
    So yes, when it comes to land J S Mill was a communist.

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  36. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    publicwatchdog (2,110 comments) says:
    August 2nd, 2014 at 8:53 am
    How are the continuing John Banks Court proceedings over his conviction for electoral fraud in the middle of this 2014 General Election campaign going to help the electoral fortunes of the ACT Party or John Key led National Party? Penny Bright

    Schadenfreude is such a petty and ugly expression of character.

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  37. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “NZIER’s Shamubeel Eaqub says recruiting young immigrants could help address problems in the provinces where there are more old people than Japan”

    He’s not wrong.

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  38. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Just put a low land tax and capital gains tax in place and most of these concerns about foreign landowning fly out the window.

    That of course will never happen because a) Labour are inept and won’t be elected until the 22nd century AD b) our MPs are NZ’s landed gentry (just check the Pecuniary Interests Register).

    Is it really that controversial, the idea you can sell your land to whoever you wish?

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  39. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,676 comments) says:
    August 2nd, 2014 at 9:09 am

    “So is JS Mill saying it is ok for English landlords to own Irish land?”

    He’s saying that sovereignty should remain with the Irish.
    …..

    The land of Ireland, the land of every country, belongs to the people of that country

    what part of belongs don’t you understand?

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  40. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Yep immigration worked well for Germany with the 6 million Muslims they now have

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  41. EAD (1,087 comments) says:

    Shawn – is there any top down Statist solution you disagree with?

    Perhaps people look at what has happened to Auckland with it’s extreme house prices, traffic jams, ethnic ghettos, and lack of esprit de corps and say no thanks, I quite enjoy a quiet, affordable life in the provinces where I know my community and there is a strong social fabric.

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  42. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Now, that wouldn’t be the same Ashraf Choudhary who refused to condemn the stoning to death of homosexuals and people who had extra-marital affairs in a television interview on TV3′s 60 Minutes, would it?”

    The very same. This is surely a Tui ad. A man who could not quite bring himself to condemn the stoning of gays is supposedly a reliable moral guide to Israel.

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  43. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Shawn – is there any top down Statist solution you disagree with?”

    Yes, the Kremlins.

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  44. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Personally I think having a quota of Muslims in each country in order to secularise the majority of them and free their women is quite a good idea.

    The only way you’ll pacify a culture is to turn it middle-class.

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  45. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Prat Dabney posted at 8.30 of someone who questioned the sale of more land to Chinese interests:

    You didn’t own the land before. You don’t own it now.

    It’s none of your business.

    And neither did you own the land, Prat.

    You say no-one can discuss the sale of land to Chinese interests, when China doesn’t allow New Zealanders to buy land in China?

    Sounds like you want political censorship, Prat.

    This is an election issue, and a hot one, Prat.

    Meanwhile Simon posted at 9.10:

    You speak for no one you collectivist shut in.

    What the hell does that mean, Simon?

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  46. itstricky (1,832 comments) says:

    t’s both hilarious and sad to watch lefties hating on Jonah Lomu for daring to publicly support John Key. The level of vitriol is similar to that

    Vitriol? Really? I see a couple of people not liking Key, to a mild degree. Par for the course. Nothing compared to the sort of spiteful, angry, sometimes violent posts one sees here every day about various topics. Are you saying people shouldn’t voice their opinions if they disagree with something that’s posted into the public domain?

    I think a larger audience would find your blog interesting if you posted serious political commentary and less tell-tale-tit-for-tat. Mind you, plenty of KBers give you lots of upticks so I guess that says a lot – there is an audience for it!

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  47. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    wiseowl,

    “We ” wat I guess is the genuine New Zealander who feels a connection.

    So anyone who disagrees with you is, axiomatically, not a ‘genuine New Zealander.’

    So we’ve established early on that you’re speaking for the nation here.

    One may ‘own’ the land while present on it but one only looks after it for future generations.

    One can equally ‘own’ the land while not present on it and it will still be there for future generations

    I would personally like to see Landcorp farms sold but to kiwis who have a desire to get on the land not to corporates or overseas interests.

    Why don’t you and your fellow outraged get together and buy the property, rather than effectively proposing that property rights be shredded in New Zealand?

    The other point is we are a very small country and could become tenants in our own country in a very short time of allowed.

    “Tenants” who still retain 100% sovereignty.

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  48. oldpark (331 comments) says:

    @ Southern Raider 9.25am.Dotcons country.They sent six million jews to Auschwitz,and last count they were replaced with twenty million Muslims.Wonder if all the bleeding hearts screaming for the Muslims in Gaza,would for once work out like for like.Of course not all Muslims are active terrorists,yet all around the world wherever we see or hear terrorist actitivities Muslims claim responsibility.

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  49. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Super Rugby Final . . .

    Tantalising battle of the statistics – NSW can’t remember ever beating the Crusaders vs away team in final doesn’t win often.

    I have a new found respect for these modern freaks of the game. It’s taken all this time since the advent of pro rugger in ’96 for me to really get it. The players now are an intriguing 3-in-1 deal; mixing fitness, power and on-field skillset. Like a weightlifter, triathlete and ball player all rolled into one. They’re a jack of all whip-arse. What a great game requiring all of these different elements together.

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  50. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    hj,

    So yes, when it comes to land J S Mill was a communist.

    Well, since you cited him, this means you are advocating communism for New Zealand.

    At least that’s clear.

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  51. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Whoops, re my 9.37 post.

    Simon’s cryptic post was actuallly at 8.57.

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  52. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    I wonder if we will have Rachel Smalley crying on her tin pot show on monday for the poor hamas,and their fellow ragheads supporters

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  53. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    ShawnLH says:

    The very same. This is surely a Tui ad. A man who could not quite bring himself to condemn the stoning of gays is supposedly a reliable moral guide to Israel.

    And somehow “Queers for Palestine” are supporting him and his Hamas mates?

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/01/This-week-in-stupid-queers-for-Palestine

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  54. OneTrack (3,107 comments) says:

    DontheKiwi – “As Other Andy says, Hamas breached the ceasefire after 1 -1/2 hours.

    What a slimy bunch of lying cheating murderers they are. ”

    And our left support them, because their enemy is supported by the US.

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  55. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Absolutely insane interview on The Nation, with Joyce v Robinson.
    Everyone shouting and no one the wiser.

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  56. wiseowl (895 comments) says:

    ‘We’ provincial people don’t want young immigrants and don’t need young immigrants.
    What ‘we’ need is for councils and government to get out of our lives so that those of us who are producing something from our hard endeavours are not clobbered at every turn with rules and regulations, fees and rate increases.

    Ware is the latest to be shaped into something that will be taxed ,charged for ,more clipping the ticket .

    Nick Smith said all wells should have meters.Thousands to install Now wells have been installed with approved meters the council want to monitor them every year for a fee and now have decided they need to be calibrated because they don’t believe the original calibration was accurate.
    This is another cost of $5oo imposed which is totally unnecessary.
    Money grabbing business crippling bastards.

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  57. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “And somehow “Queers for Palestine” are supporting him and his Hamas mates?”

    It’s chardonnay liberalism, heavy on fashionable lefty causes, but with little to no serious thought about the kind of people and culture they align themselves with.

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  58. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/10340712/Mother-of-drowned-toddler-simply-unlucky

    “MOTHER OF DROWNED TODDLER SIMPLY UNLUCKY”

    Read this and weep. This asshole beneficiary feral got 4 months home detention for killing her own child while she abandoned her to fix a toke. The poor kid had a history of seizures (probably because her parents were drug addicts) and the ‘partner’ was too useless to even change a nappy.

    4 months home detention…. OMG what have we come to as a country? These people lack the basic humanity to nurture and love their own offspring. They should be simply put down in order to protect the quality of the gene pool.

    Maybe the headline should have read “Toddler lucky in early escape from life of misery, deprivation and crime”…..

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  59. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    wiseowl,

    ‘We provincial people don’t want young immigrants and don’t need young immigrants.

    So you’re not speaking for the Nation, only for all provincials.

    You are too modest.

    What ‘we’ need is for councils and government to get out of our lives so that those of us who are producing something from our hard endeavours are not clobbered at every turn with rules and regulations…

    Except when you want that same government to impose rules and regulations you approve of, of course. In this case curtailing the property rights off all New Zealanders to fit in with your prejudices.

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  60. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    This cartoon now seems more accurate than ever – no such thing as meeting Hamas half way http://t.co/MY5S5j0QSg pic.twitter.com/RdK9WZUZvn— Legal Insurrection (@LegInsurrection) August 1, 2014

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  61. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    @Dave Mann: I agree. The woman is scum of the worst kind, a beast undeserving of any compassion.

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  62. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Not really news as most of you already knew that Global Warming (TM) causes absolutely everything even if Earth hasn’t warmed, according to the 5 datasets, for 13 years and 4 months.

    ‘Deadly Dozen’ Reports Diseases Worsened By Climate Change

    There is significant evidence that outbreaks of Ebola in western lowland gorillas and other primates–including humans–are related to unusual variations in rainfall/dry season patterns, potentially caused by climate change.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081007073928.htm

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  63. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Obama forced to clean up the Mexican Border immigration mess left by the Bush administration .

    http://defendingthetruth.com/current-events/41250-obama-forced-clean-up-another-republican-mess.html

    Watch the flood of lies and disinfo from our local GOP branch members.!

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  64. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Watch the flood of lies and disinfo from our local GOP branch members.!”

    Lois Lerner.

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  65. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    @Manolo: Thanks. The problem as I see it is that our society has allowed itself to slip into a state where killing your own children is regarded as ‘just a bit of bad luck’. There doesn’t seem to be any kind of basic requirement for decent human behaviour and I can’t see anything but a gradual collapse of a society with such a lack of morality. How can a judge shrug offthis kind of aanimal behaviour so casually?

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  66. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Stephie, the start of that article begins with this:

    “It is safe to say that many, if not most, African Americans can attest to the fact that if there is trouble and there are ten white people and one African American in the vicinity, the African American will be blamed for the problem. It is what happens in a society steeped in racism and Aryan sensibilities, and it certainly applies to the way Republicans treat President Barack Obama.

    The party of white supremacy, Republicans, have spent the past five years blaming the African American President for myriad policies and legislation enacted during white president George W. Bush’s administration.”

    Racism, white supremacy, Aryan sensibilities. The flood of lies and disinfo has begun, with your article, an article that has all the credibility of one of Ugly’s conspiracy sites.

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  67. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    I clicked on stephieboy’s link so you don’t have to. You’re welcome.

    With sentences beginning with gems such as “The party of white supremacy, Republicans…” you know it’s going to be a worthwhile read and that stephieboy himself must have some well-informed opinions you’d be interested in hearing more of.

    Go ahead, just ask him.

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  68. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Other_Andy (2,321 comments) says:
    August 2nd, 2014 at 10:26 am
    telling fibs
    wingnuts refuse to admit the truth if it gets in the way of their anti science religious dogma.

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/

    The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for April 2014 tied with 2010 as the highest on record for the month, at 0.77°C (1.39°F) above the 20th century average of 13.7°C (56.7°F).

    The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for May 2014 was record highest for this month, at 0.74°C (1.33°F) above the 20th century average of 14.8°C (58.6°F).

    The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for June 2014 was the highest on record for the month, at 0.72°C (1.30°F) above the 20th century average of 15.5°C (59.9°F).

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  69. Redbaiter (8,929 comments) says:

    “With sentences beginning with gems such as “The party of white supremacy, Republicans…” you know it’s going to be a worthwhile read”

    Almost as bad/ stupid as someone referencing the “Pravda on the Potomac”.

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  70. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Stephie is generally good on foreign policy issues but his brain falls on the floor when it comes to Obama vs Republicans. Lets ignore the fact that one of the US Rights heroes is Thomas Sowell, an African American. No, apparently we are all members of the KKK.

    Personally I find that accusation, which he is fond of, intellectually decrepit, dishonest, and deeply offensive.

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  71. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    stephieboy is an Obama sycophant, a callow youth that after getting a degree on Women’s Studies fell, as many others, for the Messiah’s rhetoric.

    He is a follower who would never admit any shortcoming or mistake on his idol’s part. It is called blind love or fanaticism.

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  72. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    “Stephie is generally good on foreign policy issues but his brain falls on the floor when it comes to Obama vs Republicans. ”

    Lets have a look at Obama’s party, the ‘Democrats’ as opposed to the Republicans.

    Did you know that…..?
    The Democratic Party was the party of the slavers?
    The NAACP was founded by white Republicans in 1909 – a fact conspicuously absent from their website.
    Republicans fought to end slavery and give blacks the right to vote.
    The Emancipation Proclamation, freeing slaves, was signed by Abraham Lincoln – a Republican.
    Republicans fought to give women the right to vote, and were responsible for the 19th Amendment.
    Susan B. Anthony was a women’s rights leader – also a Republican.
    Republicans fought for several civil rights act, including the big one – the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
    Republican support for the 1964 Civil Rights Act outnumbered Democratic support, 80% – 65%.
    In the 26 major civil rights votes after 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80% of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favoured civil rights in over 96% of the votes.

    Did You know that…..?
    The KKK was a military force serving the interests of the Democratic Party.
    That in the early years the Ku Klux Klan launched a “reign of terror against Republican leaders both black and white. Those political leaders assassinated during the campaign included Arkansas Congressman James M. Hinds, three members of the South Carolina legislature, and several men who served in constitutional conventions.
    George W. Ashburn for example was a Georgia republican assassinated by the Ku Klux Klan in Columbus, Georgia for his pro-African-American sentiments.

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  73. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Griff,

    For clarity, perhaps you should tell people that the scary NOAA temperature claims you cite are “adjusted” numbers which are entirely the result of adding a false warming trend to raw temperature data which otherwise completely refutes the global warming alarmism?

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  74. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Great post Other-Andy. Stephie, who I suspect is not an American, really does not have a clue when it comes to US racial politics, and his extreme partisanship blinds him to the facts you raise, and to other inconvenient truths, such as the fact that the Democrats have and still do have some very disturbing anti-Israel Jew haters in their ranks.

    The Democrat Party’s Long and Shameful History of Bigotry and Racism: http://gopcapitalist.tripod.com/democratrecord.html

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  75. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Jesse Jackson’s ‘Hymietown’ Remark – 1984

    “Feeding Frenzy Rev. Jesse Jackson referred to Jews as “Hymies” and to New York City as “Hymietown” in January 1984 during a conversation with a black Washington Post reporter, Milton Coleman. Jackson had assumed the references would not be printed because of his racial bond with Coleman, but several weeks later Coleman permitted the slurs to be included far down in an article by another Post reporter on Jackson’s rocky relations with American Jews.

    A storm of protest erupted, and Jackson at first denied the remarks, then accused Jews of conspiring to defeat him. The Nation of Islam’s radical leader Louis Farrakhan, an aggressive anti-Semite and old Jackson ally, made a difficult situation worse by threatening Coleman in a radio broadcast and issuing a public warning to Jews, made in Jackson’s presence: “If you harm this brother [Jackson], it will be the last one you harm.”

    Finally, Jackson doused the fires in late February with an emotional speech admitting guilt and seeking atonement before national Jewish leaders in a Manchester, New Hampshire synagogue. Yet Jackson refused to denounce Farrakhan, and lingering, deeply rooted suspicions have led to an enduring split between Jackson and many Jews.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/jackson.htm

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  76. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    The Racism of Democrat Al Sharpton:

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/11/25/should-al-sharpton-be-fired-from-msnbc-for-making-racist-comments/

    MSNBC’s Al Sharpton Denies, Then Defends His Use of Racial Slurs:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2014/05/24/sharpton-denies-then-defends-his-use-racial-slurs

    Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, both democrats, have made disgusting anti-Jewish comments, but they get a pass because they are not Republicans.

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  77. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    :lol:

    Wingnut wat
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Wingnut

    Being a wingnut requires a particularly paranoid worldview, teetering on the edge of or falling wholesale into tinfoil hat territory, as wingnuttery causes the victim to refuse to accept any source of information that doesn’t back up their prejudices (essentially, wingnuts are almost always authoritarian as well as being politically right-wing). Constant gibbering about the “liberal media” as well as a slavish devotion to cognitive dissonance, conspiracy theories, global warming denialism, psychological projection, and crackpot theories of economics (i.e. Austrian school) are also, if not required, at the very least nearly universal symptoms. This is all usually accompanied by a side dish of a severe persecution complex

    You other andy and ugly truth should buy your tinfoil in bulk.

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  78. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    Another incident that was reported by the media as being Israel shelling a crowded market and killing innocents (on July 30) turns out to be false. And the media actually takes part in covering it up. A blogger uncovered the truth by examining news reports and video, but he had to be fast as (in what he described as a surreal experience) links were disappearing and changing as he was clicking on them, as the media went about covering their tracks.

    An enterprising blogger’s diligent spadework has revealed the truth behind an Israeli ‘massacre’ that never was. (H/T Jonathan Foreman)

    According to the Hamas version of events – widely promulgated in the media by ITN, the Telegraph and the Belfast Telegraph – an Israeli airstrike on a crowded market place during a partial ceasefire in the Shijaiyah neighbourhood of Gaza City on July 30th, 2014 was responsible for the deaths of 17 people, including blue-helmeted photojournalist Rani Rayan.

    However as Thomas Wictor has incontrovertibly demonstrated using close analysis of film footage of the incident, the deaths were not caused by Israeli shrapnel but by secondary explosions from a vast cache of Hamas rockets.

    Oh, and the market wasn’t ‘crowded’ either: it had been closed for the day.

    And this particular area wasn’t included in the ceasefire zone, either, because Hamas was continuing to fire rockets from it.

    http://jamesdelingpole.com/2014/08/exposed-the-self-inflicted-hamas-massacre-blamed-by-the-media-on-israel/

    Update
    Imagine that! After I posted this piece, the Telegraph changed the voice over, omitting the observation that the open-air market was closed.

    What a surreal experience. As I was looking for new corroboration that the market was closed, articles were changing between the moment I clicked the link and the page opened. It was like the Michael Douglas movie Disclosure, where he’s inside the virtual computer, and the files are disappearing before his eyes. The Telegraph’s cached articles have been removed, so somebody thought it was really important to conceal the fact that the market was closed.

    Using Google Translate, I tried every language, including Arabic. Finally I began searching for specific sentences. None of them gave me any results. The information that the Shijaiyah market was closed on July 30, 2014, had been entirely scrubbed from the Internet.

    Except…for in one YouTube video, which I found by searching the sentence “The market was not open at the time.”

    http://www.thomaswictor.com/massacre-at-shijaiyah/

    Imagine that – even the Telegraph changing the voiceover in its video and scrubbing articles. The media is aiding a known terrorist group. It’s disgusting!

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  79. Odakyu-sen (655 comments) says:

    “Are you aware of the times in history when the land was owned by rich land lords and worked by powerless serfs.”

    This is true.

    Liberals/free marketeer’s say: Let’s not interfere in the market mechanism. Let the land-owners sell to whomever they wish.

    Fine. But remember the comment above.

    As a conservative, one has to be pragmatic and look after one’s community to a point. But that can bring the conservative into conflict with the liberal free-marketeer.

    What do you do? On one hand, you don’t want to interfere in people’s property rights. But on the other hand, do you want to see the return of the landed gentry? What is the relationship between the capitalist and his local community?

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  80. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen,

    Re: “Are you aware of the times in history when the land was owned by rich land lords and worked by powerless serfs.”

    In other words, the antithesis of free-market capitalism and individual liberty. The original commenter is actually arguing against himself with that statement, and is actually seeking to return us to a system of serfdom similar to Communism; as if being the serf of the state is somehow better than being the serf of a baron.

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  81. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Fletch

    Same as the well circulated media clip of the innocent guy in the green t shirt “shot” twice, once while apparently injured, by an Israeli sniper

    Surprise, surprise the video was made by Hamas actors

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  82. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Joyce accuses Labour of xenophobia over Lochinver Station deal

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11303102

    What a load of rubbish.
    As if talking about selling NZ farm land to overseas interests has anything to do with Xenophobia.

    However….

    This is exactly the tactic (Straw man and ad homs) deployed by the lefties.
    Pot, kettle and all that…..

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  83. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Oh dear Griff.

    More school-yard name-calling?

    We haven’t become any more mature have we?

    Here’s a clue: When you are completely unable to refute a valid scientific position, name-calling like a five year old only serves to draw attention to your defeat and to your dishonesty.

    I thought you should know.

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  84. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    More evidence of feral parents enabling feral kids. Read the first part that talks about who the murderer lived with his aunty, had no boundaries and did what ever he wanted

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11302859

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  85. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Southern Raider says:

    “Same as the well circulated media clip of the innocent guy in the green t shirt “shot” twice, once while apparently injured, by an Israeli sniper.”

    And the guy that was killed but fell of the stretcher (twice!) and had to jump back on, playing dead.
    There are lots of examples.

    The MSM has blood on its hands!

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  86. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    The media and Gaza.

    These reports won’t get any prominent airing in the western media.

    http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Journalists-threatened-by-Hamas-for-reporting-use-of-human-shields-369619

    Jihadwatch is one of the few sites you’ll get the truth.The MSM are complicit in the Muslim infltration and destruction of what were once western values.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/canada-muslims-scream-heil-hitler-at-jews-while-police-stand-idly-by

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  87. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Heh, just had Gerry Brownlee knock at the door asking to put hoardings up.

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  88. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Here’s a 2012 piece showing the increasing false warming trend that NOAA applies to the raw data in order to generate those headlines.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/08/19/july-was-also-the-329th-consecutive-month-of-positive-upwards-adjustment-to-the-u-s-temperature-record-by-noaancdc/

    It’s okay Griff. We’ll take it as read that everyone who cites sound scientific evidence which contradicts you is a poo-poo-head. There, I saved you some typing.

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  89. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,683 comments) says:
    August 2nd, 2014 at 11:46 am

    Odakyu-sen,

    Re: “Are you aware of the times in history when the land was owned by rich land lords and worked by powerless serfs.”

    In other words, the antithesis of free-market capitalism and individual liberty licence. The original commenter is actually arguing against himself with that statement, and is actually seeking to return us to a system of serfdom similar to Communism; as if being the serf of the state is somehow better than being the serf of a baron.
    ………….
    I would argue that in property there is more than a little dirty rat factor involved so that (as Neville Bennet says) property tends to congregate in fewer and fewer hands.
    http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/Real-Estate-Riches-Dolf-De-Roos/9780471711803?cat=all&keywords=0471711802&gclid=CjwKEAjw9eyeBRCqxc_b-LD8kTESJADsBMxS03_1Jzss_3YNrJ0MZqjBIseH4ebJ3tYSvetZqJxJIxoCvAjw_wcB

    Society needs protection against the dirty rat factor. JS Mill would know what I mean.
    National supports dirty rats,/i>.

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  90. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Truce is officially over and Obama is finally getting grumpy with Hamas

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  91. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    I bleive it was Shawn LH who made favourable mention of one Thomas Sowell African American and hardcore Liberatraion of the Chicrago supply side varietyAmongst his more crazy,paranoid and outrageous remarks has likened Obama to Adolf Hitler taking the US down the slippery path to a totalitarian state .
    Sowell is unsurprisingly a fan of the US intervening overseas anywhere the President fears to tread.U Unsurprisingy again is both a New Deal and Climate change denier.
    In a nutshell the guy’s a fruitcake ,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell

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  92. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “In a nutshell the guy’s a fruitcake ”

    No Stephie, the guy who wrote this is a fruitcake:

    ““It is safe to say that many, if not most, African Americans can attest to the fact that if there is trouble and there are ten white people and one African American in the vicinity, the African American will be blamed for the problem. It is what happens in a society steeped in racism and Aryan sensibilities, and it certainly applies to the way Republicans treat President Barack Obama. The party of white supremacy, Republicans, have spent the past five years blaming the African American President for myriad policies and legislation enacted during white president George W. Bush’s administration.”

    Nice try at avoiding the issue by the way. If you’re going to post insane and dishonest crap like this you have not got a leg to stand on when it comes to calling people fruitcakes.

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  93. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Look over there a squirrel.
    :lol.:
    wingnut
    We are discussing the globe
    the usa makes up 1.2 percent of the worlds surface.
    your point is?
    or the tinfoil is working.
    of course having it shaped like a dish on your head only serves to concentrate the mind waves.
    ….EH … wingnut

    As a aside mr A Watts spent years trying to prove the temperature record is wrong. Hows that going has his paper been published Yet?
    OH that’s right he forgot to add in an adjustment for the time of bias. His paper is not publishable until he corrects for the different times used historical for taking the temperature . Even he admits he missed them and they are required on his blog
    When he does the stations that he chose as most unaffected by urban heat island effect proves that The record is accurate

    Denial is refusing to accept the evidence
    There are how many surface records wat?
    Including BEST an examination independent of the others by a former skeptic of the series accuracy.
    The result of BEST

    Berkeley Earth also has carefully studied issues raised by skeptics, such as possible biases from urban heating, data selection, poor station quality, and data adjustment. We have demonstrated that these do not unduly bias the results.

    A Watts said about the BEST study

    I’m prepared to accept whatever result they produce, even if it proves my premise wrong.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/06/briggs-on-berkeleys-best-plus-my-thoughts-from-my-visit-there/

    By the way the contents of A Watts blog is not “science” its his opinion unless its published in a reputable peer reviewed journal

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  94. Slipster (170 comments) says:

    Griff, 8:53 –
    “China does not allow us to buy up her most productive land.

    Why should we allow Chinese to buy up our land?”
    —–
    Perhaps because we are not a communist dictatorship?

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  95. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    I would argue that in property there is more than a little dirty rat factor involved so that (as Neville Bennet says) property tends to congregate in fewer and fewer hands.

    “The 1919 Census revealed a high level of home ownership (53 percent)…in 1991, almost three-quarters (73.8 percent) of total households in New Zealand lived in a home that they owned. By 1996, this figure had decreased to 70.7 percent and by 2001 the ownership rate was 67.8 percent.”
    http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/people_and_communities/Households/housing-profiles-owner-occupied.aspx

    Home ownership is way up on what it was 100 years ago.

    So much for property tending to congregate in fewer and fewer hands.

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  96. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Good news:

    “US to train and arm Ukraine army.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/10341050/US-to-train-and-arm-Ukraine-army

    I won’t get my hopes too high, but perhaps Obama has finally decided to grow a pair and man up. So far he has made Jimmy Carter look strong by comparison.

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  97. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    @wat… but 97% so shut up!

    edit: shut up wingnut!

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  98. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    “China does not allow us to buy up her most productive land.

    Why should we allow Chinese to buy up our land?”

    China doesn’t allow free-speech either. Why should we allow it?

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  99. Slipster (170 comments) says:

    Perhaps I should elaborate on the above for those who aren’t aware of the differences between the two.

    China doesn’t allows private land ownership at all (with some choice few exceptions). It’s own citizens can’t own land (whether prime of not). National private companies can’t. It’s ALL state-owned.

    Does it answer the question of why they do it and we don’t?

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  100. lilman (960 comments) says:

    What a disgrace Phil Goff is,my distaste for this man is nothing short of huge.
    Gaza and Hamas can go to hell,I will always support a countries right to defend its self and take its rightful place in the world community.

    Goff should be ashamed of his cowardice and his compliance in the future and attempted extermination of Israel and the jews.

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  101. publicwatchdog (2,597 comments) says:

    John Banks did not check his 2010 Mayoral candidate’s return before signing it. John Banks knew the identity of donors that were recorded as ‘anonymous’. END OF STORY. When will this legal ‘turd-polishing’ and total abdication of ‘personal responsibility’ by the NOT so Honourable John Banks stop? When will the’ up of tea’ between former ACT Party Leader John Banks & latest ACT Party Leader Jamie Whyte take place? Will all media be invited? Penny Bright

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  102. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Do you have a problem with the law Penny?

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  103. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “END OF STORY.”

    Bullshit Penny. If the witnesses contradict DotCon then it’s not the end of the story, unless you think the law is there just to suit you, which you seem to, and which is corrupt thinking.

    “When will this legal ‘turd-polishing’ and total abdication of ‘personal responsibility’ by the NOT so Honourable John Banks stop?”

    When will your legal turd polishing and total lack of personal responsibility stop? WHEN YOU PAY YOUR RATES.

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  104. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    ” mother had come home after spending the day trying to get food and money from various agencies, as money was tight for her family, to find the child with a soiled nappy.
    Her partner at the time had not changed it, so she removed the nappy and put the child in the bath
    She then put knives on the stove in preparation to take cannabis, then went outside..”

    Stay classy Cannabis users…

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  105. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Funny how you wingnuts really hate being called a wingnut
    The meaning of the word.
    Wingnut
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wingnut
    n. An outspoken, irrational person with deeply-held, nominally conservative, political views. A person who chooses on principle to be flagrantly ignorant. A “right-wing nut”.

    Doran & Zimmerman (2009) found a 97% consensus among scientists actively publishing climate research. Anderegg et al. (2010) reviewed publicly signed declarations supporting or rejecting human-caused global warming, and again found over 97% consensus among climate experts. Cook et al. (2013) found the same 97% result through a survey of over 12,000 climate abstracts from peer-reviewed journals, as well as from over 2,000 scientist author self-ratings, among abstracts and papers taking a position on the causes of global warming.

    In addition to these studies, we have the National Academies of Science from 33 different countries all endorsing the consensus. Dozens of scientific organizations have endorsed the consensus on human-caused global warming. Only one has ever rejected the consensus – the American Association of Petroleum Geologists – and even they shifted to a neutral position when members threatened to not renew their memberships due to its position of climate denial.

    In short, the 97% consensus on human-caused global warming is a robust result, found using several different methods in various studies over the past decade. It really shouldn’t be a surprise at this point, and denying it is, well, denial.

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  106. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    The Racist, Discriminating Democratic Party:

    “The Democratic Party, the party of slavery, which openly practices the only form of discrimination that is acceptable today in American politics – class warfare – and discrimination against the successful, yesterday, for the third time in recent weeks, wrongly accused the Republican Party of racism.”

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/ronn-torossian/the-racist-discriminating-democratic-party/

    Democrat Party Still Racist After All These Years.

    “Back in 2010, the DNC website read “Democrats are unwavering in our support of equal opportunity for all Americans. That’s why we’ve worked to pass every one of our nation’s Civil Rights laws.” [Emphasis added.] Those words have since been removed from the site. Did the Democrat party change it when too many people realized that they are still, even after all these years, as racist as they have ever been?

    All but the redoubtable Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, the Southern Democrat who managed to stay Democrat for well over 40 years; despite all the mythical ship-jumping which is supposed to have occurred. All of the modern liberal Democrats who adored him, like Bill Clinton, Barrack Obama and Al Gore, must not have been told Byrd was a Grand Klegal in the KKK before he ran for the Senate as a Democrat. Byrd was a celebrated member of the Democrat party up til his death, in 2010. So it is not as if the discussion of his affiliations is somehow ancient history.

    The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had no illusions as to of which party and political ideology he was marching against, and he voted Republican. In honor of Reverend King’s legacy, perhaps it is best to judge the Democrat party on the content of its character.”

    http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/democrat-party-still-racist-after-all-these-years-2014-update/

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  107. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    It’s highly disturbing that Shawn LH resorts to abuse when one attempts to defend Obama against his poor quality detractors like Thomas Sowell.The man is plainly not at all with it in respect of comparing his fellow Afro American with Adolf Hitler.That’s insane polemics and deserves to be treated with the utterc contempt it deserves.
    Yes I suppose the US should of done an D Day invasion of the Beaches of Crimea or a 2003 style invasion of Ukraine .Bur I think Obama has actually accuse wisely with a cool head than get embroiled in US far right and Shawn LH hawkish foreign policy fantasies that would committ enormous military resources WW2 style
    .This with a flimsy regard as to how it will be paid for other than more deficit printing and borrow,borrow money funding.

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  108. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    For all you Hamas supporters.

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  109. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    I’ll go for the Israeli bombardment of Gaza anytime no matter how many poor wee Gazan children it takes out as collateral damage.

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  110. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    From yesterday’s thread…

    “So you are saying that the territory of the state of Israel has priority over the land of inheritance of the descendants of Ishmael?”

    No, I am saying that the descendent’s of Ishmael have no right to the land of Israel.

    That isn’t the point. The point is that the state of Israel has attempted to annex the land that belongs to Ishamel’s descendants ever since Herzl described the territory of the state as being from the Nile to the Euphrates:

    In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.”

    The blessing of God follows the line of Isaac and his descendent’s.

    Ambiguous and misleading.

    The inheritance of the land is with both the descendants of Isaac and the descendants of Ishmael, the sons of Abraham.

    In the same day YHWH made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
    Genesis 15:18

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  111. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    “Good news:

    “US to train and arm Ukraine army.””

    No ,that would be very stupid and irresponsible. Stay out of it. The EU should stay out too.

    When the Soviets agreed to leave east germany the west promised not to ,to borrow from a previous era, ” drang nach osten”.

    Now if you want to draw parallels with history ,then if I were a Russian I’d be thinking of the last 2 times the west decided to push east!

    In fairness to the Russians,they have a case.

    And the Ukrainians should be wary of having the west as a military friend. Look how well it worked out for the Georgians when the russians decided they oversteppd the mark.” Sorry Georgies ,you’re on your own.”

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  112. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    By the way the contents of A Watts blog is not “science” its his opinion unless its published in a reputable peer reviewed journal

    Science was around long before peer reviewed journals arrived on the scene, Griff.

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  113. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    See Shawn LH at it yet again.At the time of the freedom marches and Martin Luther King’s famous ” I have a dream” speech “the Democrtats were split inot two factions , the more liberal North and the more conservative/ reactionary Dixiecrats south.The Dixiecrats opposed civil rights legislation and and King’s aspirations so it would be no surprise that MLK might of supported the party of Abraham Lincoln which also had it’s Libreral faction in favour of the civil rights movement.
    One thing is for certain MLK would be rather dismayed at the GOP today hi jacked by the Tea Party and many of whom who favour dismantling civil rights legislation in the name of Liberatrian ideological fantasicsm .
    The irony.!

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  114. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “It’s highly disturbing that Shawn LH resorts to abuse”

    The article you posted resorted to extreme and disgusting abuse of people like me.

    What is highly disturbing is that your lying Stephie and indulging in abuse and racism. When you post dishonest crap about Republicans being white supremacists that’s abuse, that’s lying, and it’s racist.

    You ignored the point that Right wing support for Sowell destroys your accusation, and instead tried to hide that by attacking his character.

    The article you posted was a tissue of disgusting and abusive lies, and it was racist because it spat on every African American and non-white person (like me) who supports the Republicans. Now your attacking a black man for wanting better for the US than Obama. That is racist according to your own definition.

    You got caught indulging in Ugly style whackjobbery, had your accusation of racism totally demolished by the facts, and now you are desperately trying to cover it up. And you know it because you have not got the guts to speak to me directly.

    Shameful Stephie.

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  115. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    A “disgusting bunch of apologists” would be a fair assessment for all of those who don’t support Israel in it’s current mission to root out and destroy the evil terrorists that the Palestinians clutch to there bosoms!

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  116. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Not surprised to find put that the reason Hamas breaking the truce and aiming a pile of rockets at Kerem Shalom border crossing was because Israel had 91 trucks of humanitarian aid lined up and about to cross into Gaza.

    So your enemies are giving you aid during a truce but you would rather that your own people stave and can’t get medicine

    Where is the media about this? Oh that’s right Israel broke the truce

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  117. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Johnboy, most Palestinians hate Hamas.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-reveal-the-brutal-truth-of-gaza-attack-1746485.html

    Troops’ testimonies disclose loose rules of engagement and use of civilians as human shields:

    “No one is supposed to be there. If you see any signs of movement at all, you shoot. These, essentially, were the rules of engagement.”

    “if we see something suspect and shoot, better hit an innocent than hesitate to target an enemy”

    “You see something and you’re not quite sure? You shoot”

    “A civilian man between 50 and 60 who was unarmed but carrying a torch was shot dead after the unit’s commander ordered his soldiers not to fire warning shots but to hold their fire until he was 50m away. The soldier said the company commander announced over the radio after the incident: Here’s an opener for tonight”

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  118. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Johnboy, most Palestinians hate Hamas.”

    They voted them into power in Gaza.

    So….. bullshit.

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  119. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You got caught indulging in Ugly style whackjobbery

    You mean like when I just showed that you were full of shit regarding the Zionists’ territorial ambitions?

    There is no way that the Zionist state can be the rebirth of the nation of Israel as you say it is, when its founder places the state in direct conflict with the Torah regarding land rights.

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  120. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Ugly tinfoil boy
    You have the critical thinking skills of a small pile of lard.
    Not much different than wat a twat and wrong often in that regard.
    The only difference as a rule those in denial of climate change only do wingnutery for climate science because it upsets their politically based world view for you its because you are certifiably mad as a cat in a running concrete mixer.

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  121. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Griff, didn’t you previously post that you were mad and that you only came here for entertainment?

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  122. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    The Gazan’s are fucked UT. They let Hamas take over, even you must have seen the videos of Hamas shooting hog-tied Fatah’s lying on the ground in front of a stone wall?

    I have no sympathy for them. Israel should test half a dozen nukes on them and solve the problem on a permanent basis.

    Now that would give Obummer and the Irishman something to think about!

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  123. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Griff, didn’t you previously post that you were mad”

    Irony alert. This from KB’s resident mad hatter! :)

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  124. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    As for that pathetic apologist Tom Scott!

    I wish the prick could find another hobby-horse to jump on.

    Preferably one that would buck him into obscurity.

    He is very much past his use by date.

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  125. KH (695 comments) says:

    Land ownership should be limited to New Zealand citizens. Further we should support what has been the saviour of our economy for a century now. Owner operator family farms.
    New Zealand started as a big capital based agri economy, but only came right with land reform, which broke up the large estates. We are now drifting back to the old bad.
    Enforce this at the time of sale. It will take a few years to come right.

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  126. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Isaac not Ishmael is heir to the Covenant promises.

    http://scofieldprophecystudies.org/bookstudies/romans/romans9-11-3.htm

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  127. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So I’m mad, but you are sane to think that the Zionists have the high moral ground when they act against the Torah, targeting the innocent and attempting to appropriate land not rightfully theirs?

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  128. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Griff,

    Including BEST an examination independent of the others by a former skeptic

    You’re referring to Richard Muller. No, as he himself said, he was never a sceptic.

    The temperature “adjustments” diverge more and more from reality as they are necessarily increased each year to fit the warming narrative. Raw data which they can’t get their hands on – the satellite data – completely contradicts their manufactured claims.

    Also, it is not just new data which is being “corrected.” Remarkably, NOAA retrospectively adjusts the historical record.

    in the U.S. there has been little temperature change in the past 50 years, the time of rapidly increasing greenhouse gases — in fact, there was a slight cooling throughout much of the country” James Hansen, Reto Ruedy, Jay Glascoe and Makiko Sato — August 1999

    Last week, scientists from the United States Commerce Department’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said that a study of temperature readings for the contiguous 48 states over the last century showed there had been no significant change in average temperature over that period. Dr. (Phil) Jones said in a telephone interview today that his own results for the 48 states agreed with those findings.

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-us-temperatures-after-the-year-2000/

    The point of those quotes? The point being that NOAA later went back and “adjusted” the historical record so that those statements no longer match the modified record. The cooling trend was simply made to disappear by changing historical temperatures. That’s known as fraud.

    Let’s look at another example. The temperature record supplied by the Iceland Met Office had an entirely false warming trend applied to it by NOAA.

    http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/how-giss-has-totally-corrupted-reykjaviks-temperatures/

    And it get’s worse:

    We have already seen how GHCN recently introduced a tranche of temperature adjustments for most stations in Iceland and Greenland that had the effect of cooling the past and/or warming the present, thereby creating a false warming trend. Further investigation shows that similar adjustments have been made for many other stations, ranging from the Shetland Islands through Northern Norway and onto much of Russian arctic coast.
    http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/iceland-adjustments-spread-to-norway-and-russia/

    This is data tampering pure and simple. Valid historical temperature data supplied by national organisations is corrupted with a false warming trend. There can be no justification for such fabrication. Yet you lap it up and ask for more.

    Retrospecively tampering with historical data also results in farces like the recent case of the year 1936 being the hottest year on record, until it wasn’t, and now it is again. Just like that:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/29/noaas-temperature-control-knob-for-the-past-the-present-and-maybe-the-future-july-1936-now-hottest-month-again/

    By the way the contents of A Watts blog is not “science” its his opinion unless its published in a reputable peer reviewed journal

    That’s where you’re wrong. What we have seen time and again are worthless peer-reviewed articles getting published and then being thoroughly debunked. Most famously the notorious Hockeystick of course, but there are plenty of others. In part this is due to the fact that it’s not proper peer-review but mates-review, as exposed by Climategate, which also exposed how those at the centre of the global warming industry discussed how to corrupt the peer-review process to get their own papers published on the nod whilst blocking papers which contradicted them.

    So no, peer-review or lack of it has been shown to signify nothing here. It has become the last resort of the scoundrel; a trite justification for not thinking for yourself and remaining in denial.

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  129. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    Johnboy, most Palestinians hate Hamas.

    Hellooooo. Someone left the Islamic asylum doors open (again).

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  130. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Prat Dabney and Slipster underestimate the potential electoral damage from the Lochinver station sale to China, in my view.

    Many who voted National at the last election and who opposed the asset sales had nowhere-else but National for their votes. Now, those who want a Rightist government but oppose sales of NZ land to Chinese investors have the alternative of voting for Craig’s mob.

    The Lochinver deal gives rival parties a toehold in the cliff. They can build on the alleged closeness of National Cabinet Ministers such as Collins and Williamson to Chinese business people. They can build on Pansy Wong’s demise from Parliament. Even on former PM Shipley’s post-Parliament directorships of NZ-Chinese companies.

    John Key reportedly told China he was uneasy about land land sales, though not about Chinese investment generally. Why didn’t National set up a Commission or some other sort of delay to put the Overseas Investment Commission out of operation until well after the election?

    Perhaps right now in a Leftist think tank someone who has been reading Chinese history has come across Chiang Kai-Shek’s party, corrupt by NZ’s standards (it is said even to have sold armaments to the Japanese given to it by the US under lend-lease).

    Chiang Kai-Shek’s fairly corrupt party was called the Kuomintang, usually translated as the China Nationalist Party.

    From this, how long before Leftists label National the Keymintang?

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  131. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Isaac not Ishmael is heir to the Covenant promises.

    Again, ambiguous and misleading.

    Isaac, not Ishmael is heir to the promises of the covenant of circumcision (Gen 17:21)
    Both Isaac and Ishmael were heirs to the covenant of the land (Gen 15:18)

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  132. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Hellooooo. Someone left the Islamic asylum doors open (again).

    Oh look, slander boy is back.

    Support for Hamas Waning; Gazan Journalist Says Most Gazans Hate Hamas
    http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/27/support-for-hamas-waning-gazan-journalist-says-most-gazans-hate-hamas/

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  133. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Like it or not Shawn LH it’s a incontestable fact that Thomas Sowell from his syndicated column compared Obama to the Bolshevki revolutionaries,Hitler , Stalin and Mao etc

    As my commentator notes it poorly reflects on the Conservative state of mind when Sowell resorts to these kind of libels and out right falsehoods.,

    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/apagansblog/2010/06/hitler-obama-and-thomas-sowells-intellectual-collapse.html

    And it relects most poorly on yours when you seek either to deny it or support it.!

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  134. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    wat dabney says at 1:57 pm

    “So no, peer-review or lack of it has been shown to signify nothing here.”

    “Peer-review” – certainly where climate “science” is concerned – is a busted flush.
    We learned this from the Climategate emails.
    Here’s one from Phil Jones of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia:

    “I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!”

    The Kevin, by the way, is New Zealander Kevin Trenberth. What Jones is privately admitting here – remember, he never realised that the Climategate emails were going to go public – is that where climate “science” is concerned, “peer-review” has long since degenerated into “pal review”.

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  135. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    KH,

    Further we should support what has been the saviour of our economy for a century now. Owner operator family farms.

    The small owner/operator farms you admire are the norm in developing countries.

    New Zealand is hopefully well past that stage.

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  136. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    I seem to remember that under the previous ownership there were armed confrontations between hunters using legal paper roads on Lochinver and the owners that almost came to violence.

    Perhaps someone that knows more than me could update on that?

    If the Chinese don’t do the same I can hardly see a problem! :)

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  137. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    No ticks either up or down for my 1:08 video yet!

    What a surprise! :)

    KB warriors have little stomach for reality it would seem! :)

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  138. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Like it or not Shawn LH it’s a incontestable fact that Thomas Sowell from his syndicated column compared Obama to the Bolshevki revolutionaries,Hitler , Stalin and Mao etc”

    Irrelevant. The point is that he’s black which destroys your accusation. And, it’s an incontestable fact Stephie that you called all Republicans racists and white supremacists. That Stephie is the issue your trying to run away from.

    “As my commentator notes it poorly reflects on the Conservative state of mind when Sowell resorts to these kind of libels and out right falsehoods.,”

    You mean libels and out right falsehoods like the ones you posted in your article? Libels and falshoods like these Stephie?

    [“It is safe to say that many, if not most, African Americans can attest to the fact that if there is trouble and there are ten white people and one African American in the vicinity, the African American will be blamed for the problem. It is what happens in a society steeped in racism and Aryan sensibilities, and it certainly applies to the way Republicans treat President Barack Obama.

    The party of white supremacy, Republicans, have spent the past five years blaming the African American President for myriad policies and legislation enacted during white president George W. Bush’s administration.”]

    Those kinds of racist and abusive lies Stephie?

    It reflects poorly on you, and is a good indication of the liberal state of mind, that not only do you resort to this kind of abusive and racist lying, you don’t even have the shred of courage and decency to man up and admit your bigotry and dishonesty.

    Your a monumental hypocrite Stephie. You do the very thing you accuse others of.

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  139. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Wat you are having a feast of wingnut blogs there
    :lol:
    Still going on about the hockey stick from 1999
    we have moved on wat a twat
    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/07/08/2261531/most-comprehensive-paleoclimate-reconstruction-confirms-hockey-stick/

    78 researchers from 24 countries, together with many other colleagues, worked for seven years in the PAGES 2k project on the new climate reconstruction. “2k” stands for the last 2000 years, while PAGES stands for the Past Global Changes program launched in 1991. Recently, their new study was published in Nature Geoscience. It is based on 511 climate archives from around the world, from sediments, ice cores, tree rings, corals, stalagmites, pollen or historical documents and measurements (Fig. 1). All data are freely available .

    One of many studies since Manns 1999 that have not only confirmed the robustness of Manns early study but have expended it well into the past.
    Blogs that all deny climate change wat a twat not one link to a reputable organization in you list.
    What a wingnut.

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  140. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Again, ambiguous and misleading.”

    Ambiguous means vague and my point is crystal clear. The blessing is through the line of Isaac, not Ishmael. That is a clear statement, not a vague one.

    And what is misleading is the fact that you ignore the rest of Scripture which makes that clear as well.

    Liar.

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  141. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Prat Dabney at 2.07:

    The small owner/operator farms you admire are the norm in developing countries.

    Prat, you are obviously an ignorant city boy in one of the world’s most efficient agricultural countries.

    Family farms remain the core of our agricultural industries, not least because they far better ride out commodity price dips, and nor least because through their co-operatives they have built our biggest exporter, Fonterra.

    Non-farmer businesses have not been overly successful in NZ. Look at the horticulture export industry, de-mutualised into Turner Auctions with he end of the Apple and Pear Marketing board. Who now controls this company – a huge foreign co-operative. Who is one of the biggest up and fastest growing financiers of NZ agriculture, a Dutch co-operative.

    Prat, how did the National Party, once almost the political beating heart of NZ farming, get infiltrated by out-of-touch city slickers like you?

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  142. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Oh look its other andy with the climate email quote mine.
    A few thousand stolen emails with quote mining finding a couple of passages that can be taken out of context
    eight reviews found no fault yet still the wingnuts do the quote mine.
    eight times proven wrong
    how stupid can you get.
    Tell us all about how every major scientific body in the world is wrong but a couple of bloggers with no scientific training are right wingnuts
    :lol:

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  143. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    “The party of white supremacy, Republicans, have spent the past five years blaming the African American ….”

    Au contraire ShawnLH…From Wikipedia….

    “Opposing factions led by Henry Clay helped form the Whig Party. The Democratic Party had a small but decisive advantage over the Whigs until the 1850s, when the Whigs fell apart over the issue of slavery. In 1854, angry with the Kansas–Nebraska Act, anti-slavery Democrats left the party and joined Northern Whigs to form the Republican Party.[12][13]”

    Hence the Republican Party was born from the anti-slavery folks! :)

    Get up to speed Shawn! :)

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  144. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Hence the Republican Party was born from the anti-slavery folks! ”

    Yes, I know. That bit was a quote from an article Stephie posted. I have been demolishing it’s claim all day Johnboy, get up to speed! :)

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  145. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Sorry Shawn old chap. I never read anything more than half a dozen comments before unless I’ve written it as it’s all so dreadful! :)

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  146. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Johnboy posted at 2.11:

    No ticks either up or down for my 1:08 video yet!

    Johnboy: what would an uptick signify? This post is good because Islamic fundamentalists are scum? Islamic terrorist capital punishment is brutal (albeit quicker than Arizona’s two-hour torture)? Sadistic video clips are good?

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  147. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Fair enough Johnboy.

    So I take it that the Gerbil population where you are lives in fear and trembling of your presence? ;)

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  148. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ambiguous means vague and my point is crystal clear. The blessing is through the line of Isaac, not Ishmael. That is a clear statement, not a vague one.

    Ambiguous means that something can have more than one meaning.

    ambiguousamˈbɪgjʊəs/
    adjective
    adjective: ambiguous

    open to more than one interpretation; not having one obvious meaning.

    Your “blessing” is ambiguous as it could refer to the blessing of the inheritance of the land or to the blessing of the covenant of circumcision. It is misleading because the argument was about the inheritance of the land, not the covenant of circumcision.

    Isaac, not Ishmael is heir to the promises of the covenant of circumcision

    Genesis 17
    14: And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

    20: And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
    21: But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

    Both Isaac and Ishmael were heirs to the covenant of the land (Gen 15:18)

    Genesis 15
    18: In the same day YHWH made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

    And what is misleading is the fact that you ignore the rest of Scripture which makes that clear as well.

    Once again you lie after your argument fails.

    Liar.

    We’ve been through this before. You accuse me of lying, I call for proof, and your attempt to prove your point only results in other instances of your lies being made apparent.

    Shawn -devil- Herles, on the highway to hades. So ironic for a Christian who boasts of his knowledge of Christianity.

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  149. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    That Hamas supporters have little to say when their crimes are shown but have heaps to say when the Jews misdirect an airstrike Jack5?

    If you lie down with dogs you have to expect to get deloused now and again.

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  150. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    That Hamas supporters have little to say …

    Who are you talking about, Johnboy?

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  151. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Johnboy: what would an uptick signify?”

    That Islamic terrorists are evil, but not as evil as their gutless Western apologists.

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  152. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Who are you talking about, Johnboy?”

    Be quiet Ugly, adults are speaking.

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  153. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You still think that the Zionist state is the rebirth of the nation of Israel, Shawn?

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  154. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “For behold, days are coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and Judah ‘ The LORD says, ‘I will also bring them back to the land that I gave to their forefathers and they shall possess it.’” Jer. 30:3

    The Regathering of Israel: http://www.evidenceunseen.com/articles/prophecy/the-regathering-of-israel/

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  155. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Shawn, your link describes the regathering as a messianic event (The Regathering in Ezekiel). Since the establishment of the Zionist state was not a messianic event, it follows that it is not the regathering as your previous post suggests.

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  156. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Since the establishment of the Zionist state was not a messianic event”

    Yes, it was. It was part of the outworking of Christ’s plan of salvation.

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  157. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes, it was. It was part of the outworking of Christ’s plan of salvation.

    Did that “plan of salvation” include the betrayal of allies (the Lavon Affair) or the slaughter of innocents (IDF trageting non-combatants)?
    Did it include Herzl attempting to appropriate land that is the rightful inheritance of another party?

    Also, your page is talking about the Davidic messiah, not the messiah of the gospels.

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  158. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Did that “plan of salvation” include the betrayal of allies (the Lavon Affair) or the slaughter of innocents (IDF trageting non-combatants)?”

    All human beings are sinners and do sinful deeds. But God does not abandon His children.

    “Did it include Herzl attempting to appropriate land that is the rightful inheritance of another party?”

    The Jews? No.

    “Also, your page is talking about the Davidic messiah, not the messiah of the gospels.”

    They are one and the same.

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  159. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    It most likely had a lot to do with the Jew’s (as opposed to the Islamic) scientists inventing the nuclear weapon UT.

    Any Arab that want’s to push his luck can do it as long as he keeps it half a world away from me in the middle east.

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  160. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Matthew 1:1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

    Matthew 12:23 And the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?”

    Matthew 15:22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.”

    Matthew 21:9 The crowds going ahead of Him, and those who followed, were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David; BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD; Hosanna in the highest!”

    Mark 10:48 Many were sternly telling him to be quiet, but he kept crying out all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!”

    Mark 12:35 And Jesus began to say, as He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David?

    John 7:42 “Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?”

    Romans 1:3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,

    2 Timothy 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel,

    Revelation 5:5 and one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”

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  161. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    But God does not abandon His children.

    You assume too much of the Zionists. The state was established under secular law, not divine protection.

    “Did it include Herzl attempting to appropriate land that is the rightful inheritance of another party?”

    The Jews? No.

    How then could Herzl’s state be part of the plan you described?

    “Also, your page is talking about the Davidic messiah, not the messiah of the gospels.”

    They are one and the same.

    No, they’re not.

    From your page: “They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever.”

    And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
    For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
    David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
    Mark 12:35-37, KJV

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  162. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    I’ve just fallen off my chair

    Just channel surfing and saw on Al Jazzerra
    – USA and the UN have both blamed Hamas for breaking the cease fire; and
    – they reported that more Iraqis have been killed in the last month then people in Gaza

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  163. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “You assume too much of the Zionists. The state was established under secular law, not divine protection.”

    God can work through any means He wants, including secular law.

    “How then could Herzl’s state be part of the plan you described?”

    I meant he did not steal the inheritance of the so-called “Palestinians.”

    “No, they’re not.

    Matthew 1:1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham

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  164. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Johnboy (re your 1.08 video and your 2.40):

    I’m not defending the Islamic militants when I query what an uptick would mean. I’m serious.

    I think this execution is repugnant, inhumane, disgusting. But if I uptick it, could someone take that as a vote of support for the execution instead of a vote of condemnation?

    By the way, which group is this? Surely not Hamas?

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  165. Don the Kiwi (1,758 comments) says:

    Jack 5.

    I’m pretty sure its the ISIS group which is terrorizing Iraq ans parts of Syria.

    Disgusting Animals.

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  166. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    God can work through any means He wants, including secular law.

    The point is that the Zionists don’t have any special status or divine protection.

    I meant he did not steal the inheritance of the so-called “Palestinians.”

    The point is that Herzl’s writings are not consistent with your description of the Zionist state being the fulfillment of a messianic plan.

    Matthew 1:1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham

    Paternal genealogies rely on an unbroken paternal chain. The genealogy of the gospel of Matthew is broken at Joseph, since Joseph was not the father of the Messiah.

    Here is the verse that was referred to in Mark 12:

    [[A Psalm of David.]] YHWH said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
    Psalm 110:1

    The identity of David’s “Lord” is implied in Mark 12 & in Acts.

    But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God
    Acts 7:55

    The point being that the messianic title of “son of David” used in the gospels is not consistent with the status of the messiah – ie “at the right hand of YHWH” described in Psalm 110 & Acts 7.

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  167. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Does anyone else think that despite his denials Ugly is a Muslim?

    I’m detecting a pattern in his ideology.

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  168. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Does anyone else think that despite his denials Ugly is a Muslim?

    I didn’t deny being a Muslim, liar.

    I’ve made a point of not identifying with any particular religion.

    Let me guess – your theological arguments are failing so you are falling back to your “smear the opponent” position, relying on the forums prejudice against leftists and Muslims?

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  169. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Show us a photo of your knob UT that should pin you down as either Muslim or Jew! :)

    To work out which it is we will have to consider your previous comments! :)

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  170. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “The point is that the Zionists don’t have any special status or divine protection.”

    Yes, they do, because Zionism is a Jewish movement consistent with Biblical prophecy.

    “The point is that Herzl’s writings are not consistent with your description of the Zionist state being the fulfillment of a messianic plan.”

    Irrelevant. Herzl was only one Zionist amongst many, who sometimes had differing views. Herzl alone is not the sole person responsible for defining Zionism.

    “Paternal genealogies rely on an unbroken paternal chain. The genealogy of the gospel of Matthew is broken at Joseph, since Joseph was not the father of the Messiah.”

    It is bridged by divine decree, because genealogies in Judaism can and do allow for adoption.

    “The point being that the messianic title of “son of David” used in the gospels is not consistent with the status of the messiah – ie “at the right hand of YHWH” described in Psalm 110 & Acts 7.

    Yes, it is perfectly consistent.

    Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Mark 14:61-62

    When the Samaritan woman at the well said to Jesus, “‘I know that Messiah is coming’ (who is called Christ). ‘When He comes, He will tell us all things.’ Jesus said to her, ‘I who speak to you am He’” John 4:25-26

    Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:16

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  171. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “I didn’t deny being a Muslim, liar.

    I’ve made a point of not identifying with any particular religion.”

    Those two statements contradict each other. So one of them is a lie.

    “Let me guess – your theological arguments are failing ”

    They are not mine, they are the theological arguments of the Christian church for the last two thousand years.

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  172. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Hell I’ve just realised ShawnLH stands for Shawn L’Chaim! :)

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  173. Nukuleka (327 comments) says:

    Yet another day of Kiwiblogging that demonstrates that too many folk in our fair country have too much time on their hands and too few hobbies to occupy themselves. Endless dreary, irreconcilable and pointless posts re Israel/ Gaza. Surely DPF must have awoken to the fact, pointed out innumerable times, that a separate thread should be provided so that the obsessed and dreary might continue to abuse each other in their own parallel universe.

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  174. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yes, they do, because Zionism is a Jewish movement consistent with Biblical prophecy.

    Wrong, Zionism was never a messianic movement. You’ve had this explained to you before, ignoring the facts only makes you look like a deluded religious fanatic.

    Irrelevant. Herzl was only one Zionist amongst many

    It is relevant because Herlz was the founder of Zionism.

    It is bridged by divine decree, because genealogies in Judaism can and do allow for adoption.

    Non sequitur, adoption does not imply the existence of a divine decree.

    “The point being that the messianic title of “son of David” used in the gospels is not consistent with the status of the messiah – ie “at the right hand of YHWH” described in Psalm 110 & Acts 7.

    Yes, it is perfectly consistent.

    It obviously isn’t – David had many sons, but there is only reference to a single figure at the right hand of deity.
    Your straw man arguments do not address that inconsistency.

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  175. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Hell I’ve just realised ShawnLH stands for Shawn L’Chaim!”

    You got me, I’m an Israeli secret agent! Well, without the secret part now thanks to you. :)

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  176. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    I amuse myself most days with the sheep and the ladies Nuku. It’s just the sheep are all happy in their paddocks and the ladies have all gone shopping. Besides theres nothing on TV. What else is a man to do? :)

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  177. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Yet another day of Kiwiblogging that demonstrates that too many folk in our fair country have too much time on their hands and too few hobbies to occupy themselves.”

    Arguing on KB is a hobby.

    “Endless dreary, irreconcilable and pointless posts re Israel/ Gaza.”

    Is someone forcing you to read KB?

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  178. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    :lol:
    Wat a twats blog
    Not a lot of people now that
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/about/

    About
    Bringing some sanity to the Climate Change debate.

    Doesn’t say who writes funds or is responsible for it is totally anonymous .
    fail; one
    Perusing a few posts I came across this piece of dribble.
    Extremes Of Temperature Decreasing In The US
    Were they get winter cool extremes declining and summer heat extremes increasing add them together and say the climate is not changing
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/image_thumb49.png?w=520&h=308
    Plus
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/image50.png
    equals
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/image_thumb51.png?w=520&h=308
    You would have to have the iq of a retarded sand lizard to not see the problem with this rubbish.
    How hard is to understand that a decline in cool extremes plus an increase in hot extremes don’t cancel out they point to a warming world.
    :lol:

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  179. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Mossad are exerting mind control on Nuku Shawn L’Chaim!

    I thought you would have known that! :)

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  180. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Non sequitur, adoption does not imply the existence of a divine decree.”

    The statement from the angel Gabriel to Mary does.

    “The point being that the messianic title of “son of David” used in the gospels is not consistent with the status of the messiah – ie “at the right hand of YHWH” described in Psalm 110 & Acts 7.”

    Wrong. Again.

    Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Mark 14:61-62

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  181. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “I didn’t deny being a Muslim, liar.

    I’ve made a point of not identifying with any particular religion.”

    Those two statements contradict each other. So one of them is a lie.

    Shawn Lee Herles, liar and moron.

    If I say nothing at all about my religion then I obviously haven’t denied being a Muslim, just as I also obviously have not identified with any religion.

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  182. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Quite right Griff…Dumb fucks. I mean it’s bloody raining in Wainui?

    It’s never, ever, done that before on the second of August in living bloody memory! :)

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  183. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Wrong, Zionism was never a messianic movement. You’ve had this explained to you before,”

    Zionism is a Messianic movement as it is a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

    “It is relevant because Herlz was the founder of Zionism.”

    A founder amongst many. And Christian Zionism predates Herzl. That fact alone destroys both your claims.

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  184. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth:

    So why not answer the question? Which religion do you most closely identify with?

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  185. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Non sequitur, adoption does not imply the existence of a divine decree.”

    The statement from the angel Gabriel to Mary does.

    Irrelevant, it was a paternal genealogy.

    “The point being that the messianic title of “son of David” used in the gospels is not consistent with the status of the messiah – ie “at the right hand of YHWH” described in Psalm 110 & Acts 7.”

    Wrong. Again.

    No, Mark 14:61-62 says nothing about a son of David, so it can’t address the inconsistency. Again your straw man fails.

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  186. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    KB’s lunatic jihadist is a follower of the vile religion of peace and the paedophile prophet Muhammad.

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  187. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “No, Mark 14:61-62 says nothing about a son of David, so it can’t address the inconsistency. Again your straw man fails.”

    But this one, amongst many others, does. Matthew 1:1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham”

    Notice that? Jesus the Messiah, the son of David. That’s not a straw man, it is what the Bible clearly teaches, as all Christian teachers have said for two thousand years.

    Thus when we take both statements together from Matthew and Mark, which we must, we have Jesus as son of David and Messiah, the Son of God the Father.

    Jesus is both human and divine, the incarnation of the living God.

    ALL of the Bible is the breathed out Word of God, and thus all of it must be taken together, rather than indulging in your straw man tactic of only selectively quoting it.

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  188. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So why not answer the question?

    Because at the end of the day it means nothing. A statement of religious affiliation can’t tell you if I am devout in my belief or if I am a hypocrite, all it tells you is who I identify with at a secular level. If I say I am a Muslim then people can say that I support terrorism, if I say I am a Jew they can say that I support the Rothschilds, if I say I am a Christian then they can say I support the state of Rome.

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  189. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Shawn LH , your a big disappointment when it comes to your allegations that I’ve described seemingly described Repblicans as racists and bigots .You can be honorable and decent enough to link we’re I’ve actually stated that.

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  190. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Stephie you posted the article that said this:

    “It is safe to say that many, if not most, African Americans can attest to the fact that if there is trouble and there are ten white people and one African American in the vicinity, the African American will be blamed for the problem. It is what happens in a society steeped in racism and Aryan sensibilities, and it certainly applies to the way Republicans treat President Barack Obama.”

    So do you endorse the article you posted or not?

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  191. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “if I say I am a Christian then they can say I support the state of Rome.”

    Italy is a state. Rome is a city within that state. And what that has to do with being Christian is anyone’s guess.

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  192. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Shawn LH , your a big disappointment when it comes to your allegations that I’ve described Repblicans as racists and bigots .You can be honorable and decent enough to link we’re I’ve actually stated that.
    Let me restate my position on Obama. Many individuals like Sowell have made silly and crazy claims bout his fellow Afro American. The dumb comparisons with Hitler are but one of them.
    Unfortunately there is ,in my view, elements both within the Repblican right and far right who do appear to feel the colour of Obama’sskin is an issue.The credence members within the Tea Party and far right bloggers give to Birtherism is but one Another is the anti Christ and Illuminati etc Conpiracy allegations from Alex Jones and Lew Rockwell etc.Then there is the ” deranged ” Obama claims.
    I’ do not here from the Repblicans and far right voices loud enough denouncing this kind of arrant nonsense.
    Maybe some , like you, might believe it’s all true.?

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  193. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Stephie stop running and hiding. Do you endorse the article you posted or not? It’s an easy question.

    And as far as arrant nonsense goes, look at the quotes I posted from Democratic Jew haters Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Why don’t you spend some time talking about their racism for a change, or is it ok because they are Democrats?

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  194. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    The arrant nonsense from Fox News Pyschologist Dr Gina Loudon who claims Obama may not be sane,

    http://aattp.org/deranged-fox-news-psychologist-gina-london-claims-president-obama-may-not-be-sane-video/

    Note especially she is not medically qualified or trained and studied for her PH d online in California.
    Now what President has had to put up with that kind of crap.?

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  195. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Didn’t the lefties proclaim that Ronald Reagan was a senile old man and that George W was a retard stephieboy or am I just imagining all of that shit? :)

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  196. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Ronald went on to sort out the Russkies and George W did whatever he did best to the Islamic arseholes. Obummer of course has achieved fuckall.

    Never let that stand in the way of him being declared the most glorious first President of darker hue of course! :)

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  197. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Now what President has had to put up with that kind of crap.?”

    Bush put up with this kind of crap and more from Democrats. And I have to put up with your slurs about Republicans being racist.

    But your conveniently selective about the facts, and you still have not been able to give me a straight answer to my reasonable questions.

    Your double standards and hypocrisy are impressive.

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  198. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    What happened in the final?

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  199. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Obummer could of course go down in the history books as the guy who droned more folks to death than any other President! :)

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  200. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    What final bb?

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  201. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Was it not Wainui v Pseudo Catholics today?…or is that tomorrow?

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  202. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Obummer could of course go down in the history books as the guy who droned more folks to death than any other President!”

    That’s about the only thing he’s done I have any respect for.

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  203. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    3pm tomorrow at Hutt Rec bb!

    The hand of the Pope moves subtley. The psuedos will be at full strength and a couple of our God fearing chaps will be unavailable. Such is the power of superstition. :)

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  204. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Griff

    Still going on about the hockey stick from 1999
    we have moved on wat a twat

    When you say “moved on” you mean “finally forced to admit that it was completely worthless, derived as it was from home-made code which found a hockeystick shape in random data, and using cherry-picked data to boot.”

    The thing about the Hockeystick was not just that it was worthless, it was how it revealed that those behind the scam are utterly dishonest with absolutely no interest in science or truth. For years they defended that piece of shit with every dirty trick in the book, so that clueless idiots like yourself would parrot their propaganda.

    But now we’ve just “moved on” have we?

    One of many studies since Manns 1999 that have not only confirmed the robustness of Manns early study but have expended it well into the past.

    Ah, those me-to hockeyticks which purported to replicate the findings of the original, but the charlatans behind these confections wouldn’t let you see the data or their workings. Again it took years of fighing – including having to use Freedom of Information Acts – to get to the truth, which was essentially that they share a common set of disastrously flawed proxy data.

    And all these worthless studies were “peer reviewed.”

    And remember that Marcott chart which you trumpeted? Again, quickly exposed as complete rubbish.

    As for this Pages 2K effort, it is a work in progress. That piece you link to is just a press release. What we do know is that such hockeystick charts contradict the vast masses of evidence showing a Little Ice Age and a Medieval Warm Period. For some reason you choose to ignore all that multi-disciplinary evidence. Why is that? Why do you simply ignore all the known facts, simply because they contradict your prejudices?

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  205. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    I’ll keep you posted tomorrow bb! :)

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  206. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    Thanks Johnboy. Can you have a bet on the game?, some bloke reckons you can win $20,000 on a game of footy if you back the right team.

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  207. Johnboy (16,597 comments) says:

    Unless the Pope/Chris/Lou/Hansie is his bookie I’d take him with a pinch of salt bb! :)

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  208. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Jack5,

    you are obviously an ignorant city boy in one of the world’s most efficient agricultural countries.

    If you look at the figures you’ll find that the most significant trend has been the increase in the number of large farms. This is certainly the case with dairy at least, with fewer farms but milking larger and larger herds.

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  209. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    john boy, drone attacks and casualties began under the Bush administation in 2004 .At least Americans are not coughing up blood like the 4,000 soldiers killed in Iraq under GWB.
    Have the American right ,like you , regard drone strikes as Decidedly immoral like say the pilotless V1sand V2s and machine guns were once regarded .?

    Shawn L H grossly immature as per usual re applauding drone strikes.

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  210. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    No Stephie, posting the vile abusive crap you did in that article was grossly immature, and then being too much of a gutless coward to answer reasonable questions about it is grossly immature.

    Did you take a university course in double standards, hypocrisy and dishonesty?

    Come on Stephie, pretend to be a man for five minutes. Do you endorse the article you posted or not?

    And why are you silent about Democratic Jew haters?

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  211. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “At least Americans are not coughing up blood like the 4,000 soldiers killed in Iraq under GWB.”

    Because Obama is a coward.

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  212. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Hey Stephie, do you live in the USA?

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  213. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    stephieboy

    Ever heard that old truism drummed into soldiers to the effect that it is not their duty to die for their country…..rather it is to make some other bugger die for his.

    A combatant is just as dead if killed by a short sword on a battlefield or by a drone while sheltering behind women & children. The latter form of defence seems favoured by the cowards who rape little girls & cut out baby’s hearts in the name of their wretched god.

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  214. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Stephie does not have a clue what he’s talking about. As far as I can tell he’s not American, and gets all his info from pro-democrat sites, and he’s has made hypocrisy and lying into an art form.

    Stephie is the Lefty version of Redbaiter.

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  215. EAD (1,087 comments) says:

    It’s funny watching Stephie & Shawn go at each others throat trying to pretend their are vast difference between the Republicans and Democrats.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10769041/The-US-is-an-oligarchy-study-concludes.html

    The truth is the real power is in the hands of the people who control the systems of credit and by default the private banking system. He who controls the issuance of credit and the creation of money rules the world. Central banks are lenders of last resort to both governments and the private banking system.

    Smell the money – It’s pretty simple and very logical.

    The constitutional Republic formerly known as America died in 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve Act. The takeover of America was complete after the great Wall Street crash in 1929. America was forced into bankruptcy in 1930. Ownership of all gold bullion and coins was banned and it was seized by FDR’s government to pay for the bankruptcy forced upon the Republic by the bankers. The final nail in the coffin happened in 1971 when the dollar was decoupled from gold by Nixon.

    Like NZ and the UK, the USA is a political illusion of choice oligarchy. It is why the Tea Party, UKIP, the Conservatives/Act must be attacked and smeared all the time by the lap-dog media so people don’t choose the wrong option.

    “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.”

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  216. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    The Case Against Gold: Why Ron Paul is Wrong About The Gold Standard by Gregory Hilton.

    https://diplomatdc.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/the-case-against-gold-why-ron-paul-is-wrong-about-the-gold-standard-by-gregory-hilton/

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  217. Tauhei Notts (1,715 comments) says:

    Completely off topic, I know, but here goes.
    Sort out your My Sky for 8 a.m. Thursday morning when Al Jazeera on channel 90 have a piece about a disposessed indigenous people. The preview shows scenes in black and white of the Wanganui River. I wonder if they will spell it Whanganui?
    The show is timed for 2000 hours GMT Wednesday but that is 8 a.m. Thursday here.
    I await Kiwibloggers’ comments thereon. Penny Bright; spare us your (?) wisdom, please.

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  218. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Wat is denying every thing based on a couple of wingnut blogs.

    Its here wat the page 2k published paper in Nature Geoscience
    http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ngeo1797.html

    Nature Geoscience
    6,
    339-346
    (2013)
    doi: 10.1038 / ngeo1797

    Received
    09 December 2012
    Accepted
    11 March 2013
    Published online
    21 April 2013

    Abstract

    Past global climate changes Had strong regional expression. To elucidate spatio-temporal Their pattern, we reconstructed past Temperatures for seven continental-scale regions falling on the past one to two millennia. The most coherent feature in nearly all of the regional temperature reconstructions is a long-term cooling trend, Which ended late in the nineteenth century. At multi-decadal to centennial scales, temperature variability shows distinctly different regional patterns, with more similarity within each hemisphere than in between them. Therewere no globally synchronous multi-decadal hot or cold Intervals did define a worldwide Medieval Warm Period or Little Ice Age, but all reconstructions show gene rally cold conditions in between ad 1580 and 1880, punctuated in some regions by hot Decades falling on the eighteenth century. The transition to colder conditions synthesis occurred Earlier in the Arctic, Europe and Asia than in North America or the Southern Hemisphere regions. Recent warming reversed the long-term cooling; falling on the period ad 1971-2000, the area-weighted average reconstructed temperature higher than what any other time in nearly 1,400 years.

    Here is the site with all the data you claim is hidden
    http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.pages.unibe.ch/

    as I said wat a twat wingnut published !
    Where do you get such dribble from Wat a twat such a gullible idiot its surprising you manage to not eat your self.
    screen licker.

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  219. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    wat dabney, I wish I could give you two ticks for your 6:01.

    Spot on.

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  220. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    Who the fuck is the Irish correspondent One News uses for all their Gaza updates?
    My God she is biased- She is constantly choking back the tears for all those ‘innocents’ Israel has killed.
    She needs to watch Johnboy’s head-sawing vid….

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  221. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    :lol:
    Oh look Ugly tinfoil boy is your fan Wat a twat
    You know you are on the money when ugly wingnut agrees with you …
    how cute two tinfoil wearing wing nuts having a bonding experience.
    :lol:

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  222. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    wat a twat…… LOL Griff :cool:

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  223. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Griff,

    Wat is denying every thing based on a couple of wingnut blogs. Its here wat the page 2k published paper in Nature Geoscience”

    Er, yes Griff. That Geoscience piece is the pre-release. It’s what’s technically called a ‘progress article.’
    The finished study has yet to be published. It’s still very much pre-review.

    And no, for the Page 2K work I didn’t say the data was hidden.

    You really do broadcase your complete cluelessness for all to see, don’t you.

    Perhaps you should try adding some more of those smiley faces? You are, after all, a 50 year old man. Although for some sad reason you display the mentality of a teenage girl.

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  224. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    EAD, explain exactly how each nation on this earth will obtain their Gold reserves if the Gold standard is adopted or will” gold ” paper money come into it.?
    You see and think about it that is an impossibility .
    Right.?

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  225. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    It is a published work. That the are still researching further so what that’s what scientists do wat a twat
    Yes they are continuing to amass more information.
    but their work to-date as published confirms the hockey stick as does many other similar works Wat a twat
    love it that you and ugly agree. :lol:
    Keep on trying to prove the mwp
    Do you know what the result is if wing nuts did prove the mwp wat a twat ?
    you prove climate sensitivity is far higher than the IPCC range
    The smiley
    because you are a joke wat a wing nut who reads rubbish blogs and thinks they are science
    :lol:
    wingnuts are so funny

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  226. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    how cute two tinfoil wearing wing nuts having a bonding experience.

    Hey Griff, care to explain why, when the data gets adjusted, the adjustments typically increase any warming trend?

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  227. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Shawn,LH, I see like say the Somme or Verdun casualties are totally meaningless to you and the cock up that was 2003 Iraq is worth it..?
    I think history will judge Obama kindly who has kept American troops out of remote centers of engagement that actually helped destroy the Roman Empire among many things.

    Live in the US. ? No.!
    I take it you do.?
    Yea.?

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  228. tom hunter (4,859 comments) says:

    Many individuals like Sowell have made silly and crazy claims bout his fellow Afro American. The dumb comparisons with Hitler are but one of them.

    The immortal phrase “BushHitler” that echoed across left-wing blog sites, comments, cartoons, and god knows what else for almost eight years is now far down the memory hole apparently. I don’t remember any left-wingers sniffing about the dumbness of such comparisons. On the contrary the ones I saw here on Kiwiblog, NZ lefty blogs, and of course the US blogs, thought it was just so brilliantly funny.

    As I pointed out a while ago, I figure we’re about ten months or so away from Stephieboy dropping the whole “racist, racist, racist” line and falling into full War On Women mode in support of Hillary’s bid for power. It will be at that time that it will be appropriate to bring up all the incredibly vile things said about Republican woman, especially Palin in 2008/2009. I recall few left-wing objections to such, the few – such as noted left-wing intellectual Camilia Paglia – being notable for their rarity.

    And just as a side-note on some pseudo-psychologist labelling Obama as insane and Stephieboy’s outrageously outraged outragism about how dreadfully offensive it is, here’s another story from the memory hole that I’m sure he has not a clue about:

    The most famous and thorough couching of all time took place prior to the 1964 election, when 1,189 psychiatrists declared Barry Goldwater mentally unstable and paranoid. One can assume that these psychiatrists presumed such attributes made Goldwater unfit for office. None of these shrinks had met Goldwater, which provided them the added bonus of not being liable to a malpractice suit for their armchair diagnoses.

    Unfortunately, that same fact left Fact magazine, the public benefactor responsible for informing the voting public of Goldwater’s instability, liable for a libel suit from Barry himself, which he handily won. So much for freedom of the press, free speech, and the moral imperative of an informed electorate!

    “Fact” magazine eh? Sounds like it was made for the Internet Age.

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  229. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Remember, the next time you`re thinking of replying to one of those
    “Married couple seeks single male for Threesome” Ads….

    Sometimes its the Woman who just wants to watch.

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  230. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    :lol:

    Your support is probably the most damming evidence possible on KB for the stupidity of the rest of the wing nuts ugly tin foil boy.
    keep it up

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  231. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Obama and Kerry behind one of most strategic mistakes in military history.

    “The obsession by the Obama-Kerry administration with imposing a cease-fire on the warring parties in the Hamas-Israel war will go down in history as one of the most strategic mistakes in military history.

    Here is a fact the administration deliberately and maliciously ignored: In the history of modern warfare, no terrorist group has ever honored a cease-fire. Hamas has broken every cease-fire it ever said it would honor. Every single one.

    Even the Israel-Hamas 2012 cease fire, brokered by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, was simply agreed to by Hamas to give it an opportunity to restock its military arsenal, pressure Israel to lift its restrictions on the import of cement and steel into Gaza – material that Clinton said would be used to build hospitals and schools, but in fact was used to build a network of underground tunnels into Israel and build a subterranean network of underground bunkers, weapons storage facilities and launching pads.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/08/01/barack-obama-and-john-kerry-carried-out-most-historic-strategic-blunder-in/

    The West’s retreat is fueling the aggressors.

    “U.S. disengagement under Obama has created a power vacuum and emboldened the boldest actors to carve out pieces of the world for themselves and redraw maps, as there is no powerful deterrent anymore. While the last decade of Western engagement in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya has been messy, it has still been controllable, because we had some influence on developments.

    Now, after having withdrawn from the world under President Obama’s “leadership,” we have no control, no influence and can only watch the mayhem unfold.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/31/wests-retreat-is-fueling-aggressors/

    Is President Obama incompetent or lawless?

    “President Obama has taken the concept of discretion and so distorted it, and has taken the obligation of faithful enforcement and so rejected it, that his job as chief law enforcer has become one of incompetent madness or chief lawbreaker. Time after time, in areas as disparate as civil liberties, immigration, foreign affairs and health care, the president has demonstrated a propensity for rejecting his oath and doing damage to our fabric of liberty that cannot easily be undone by a successor.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/31/is-president-incompetent-or-lawless/

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  232. wat dabney (3,769 comments) says:

    Oh dear Griff,

    It is a published work.

    Oh bless.

    Publishing some aspect of an unexamined piece of work automatically means it and the rest of the work is correct does it Griff? Publishing is like magic, isn’t it Griff. And everything on TV is true.

    I repeat, it is what’s technically known as a ‘progress article.’ It’s a puff piece. It has absolutely no scientific credibility until its data and methodology have been examined. You didn’t understand this, obviously. You desperately googled so you’d have something to post in reply and you ended up making an even bigger fool of yourself.

    but their work to-date as published confirms the hockey stick as does many other similar works

    That would be the same Hockeystick which was so thoroughly discredited that even the corrupt IPCC dropped it, would it? And the me-to charts which were also thoroughly debunked once the charlatans who created them were finally forced to hand over the data? Charts which, incidentally, contradict the vast mass of inter-disciplinary studies showing a Little Ice Age and Medieval Warm Period.

    Do you know what the result is if wing nuts did prove the mwp wat a twat ? you prove climate sensitivity is far higher than the IPCC range

    Good grief. Your cluelessness knows no bounds does it Griff. Sometimes even I am astounded by the sheer ignorance and stupidity of your statements. Let me explain it to you: The point of alarmists trying to erase the MWP from history is to try to demonstrate that natural climate variation is minimal and that recent (sic) warming must therefore be anthropogenic. In other words, the complete reverse of what you just claimed.

    I don’t wish to be rude, but you say you are a 50 year old man yet you seem completely unable to grasp the simplest argument.

    Stick with the teenage girl smiley faces, mate, if they help you feel good about yourself. Just try not to interrupt when grown-ups are talking, eh?

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  233. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Shawn,LH, I see like say the Somme or Verdun casualties are totally meaningless to you and the cock up that was 2003 Iraq is worth it..?”

    Don’t be such a dickless liar Stephie. Casualties are not meaningless to me, but they do not define whether a war was worth it or not.

    “I think history will judge Obama kindly”

    That’s delusional.

    “Live in the US. ? No.!
    I take it you do.?
    Yea.?”

    Born there, grew up there and on US navy bases in various parts of the world, and have family living there, including three in the US military, two of whom are in harms way. So I can safely say I have a helluva lot more understanding of the country and military issues than you do.

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  234. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “The immortal phrase “BushHitler” that echoed across left-wing blog sites, comments, cartoons, and god knows what else for almost eight years is now far down the memory hole apparently. I don’t remember any left-wingers sniffing about the dumbness of such comparisons.”

    I pointed this and other issues out to Stephie earlier today, but when you do he tends to run away like a coward and won’t respond. Utterly gutless.

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  235. Don the Kiwi (1,758 comments) says:

    I’m just waiting for the day when a comment of Grieff’s does not include the term – “wingnut” or “wingnuttery”

    I actually enjoy Griff’s comments, except when he talks about climate change (or not)

    Actually, I tell a fib – I enjoy the CC comments too, because they make me burst out into incontrollable laughter – and previously, they used to make me weep.

    So I must thank Griffith – ith – ith for brightening my days. :-)

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  236. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    In the northern Hemisphere, the period 1983-2012 was likely the warmest 30-year period of the last 1,400 years (medium confidence).

    The original 1999 Hockey Stick study (and the 2001 Third IPCC Assessment report) concluded that recent northern hemisphere average warmth was likely unprecedented for only the past 1,000 years. The 2007 IPCC Fourth Assessment extended that conclusion back further, over the past 1,300 years (and it raised the confidence to “very likely” for the past 400 years). The new, Fifth IPCC Assessment has now extended the conclusion back over the past 1,400 years. By any honest reading, the IPCC has thus now substantially strengthened and extended the original 1999 Hockey Stick conclusions.

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  237. Don the Kiwi (1,758 comments) says:

    Griff.

    You forgot to tell those who disagreed that they were the wingnuttest wingnuts with their wingnuttery that put all wingnuts on the wing. ;-)

    BTW – you don’t have wingnut ears do you? :-)

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  238. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    :lol:
    grown up you wat a twat
    By your insistence that a couple of random blogs over the worlds scientific bodies I thought you were around six.
    :lol:
    You are obviously upset by the laughter.
    Guess you like your Friend ugly should get used to it then.
    :lol:

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  239. Maggy Wassilieff (396 comments) says:

    @ Griff; Wat Dabney; Ugly Truth et al.
    One of the reasons I follow CC/AGW postings here is that I can read them. (Albeit with some difficulty at times).
    I am a sensitive soul and find most of the CC /AGW blogs to be absolutely repellant. The vitriolic outpourings on “Hot Topic”, for instance, leave me with a tainted aura.
    I would hate to see Kiwiblog’s climate experts/wingbats adopting the level of invective that pollutes other blogs.

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  240. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    I just had a thought, it don’t happen very often.
    Moneywise investing with those who say you should invest with them is a crock, so
    I decided on GOLD. Gold foil hats, so once I get some Gold I can sell the hats.
    Unlike a Gold ring, these hats can protect you from having an opinion.
    Waiting waiting waiting

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  241. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Shawn L H so you’ve lived in the USA etc and this gives you special qualifications to comment about and understand the country to the exclusion of the rest including say Alex Jones, David Duke , Jeff Resne , Ray Griffen , Richard Gage and numerous other Conspiracy theorists.?
    You accept their beliefs and understanding about US affairs.? They after all were born and live there right now.!

    What a load of condescending and patronizing twaddle.

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  242. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/report/WG1AR5_SPM_FINAL.pdf

    Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, and since the 1950s, many of the observed
    changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia. The atmosphere and ocean have
    warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, sea level has risen, and the
    concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased (see Figures SPM.1, SPM.2, SPM.3 and
    SPM.4).
    Each of the last three decades has been successively warmer at the Earth’s surface than any
    preceding decade since 1850 (see Figure SPM.1). In the Northern Hemisphere, 1983–2012
    waslikely the warmest 30-year period of the last 1400 years (medium confidence.

    Continental-scale surface temperature reconstructions show, with high confidence , multi-decadal periods during
    the Medieval Climate Anomaly (year 950 to 1250) that were in some regions as warm as in the late 20th century.
    These regional warm periods did not occur as coherently across regions as the warming in the late 20th century
    highconfidence

    Dear dear Wat a twat seems you have been caught telling fibs yet again

    Maggy love
    I taunt Wat a Twat for fun
    I am never going to change his mind and the time for actually taking him seriously and treating his junk as worth serous discussion passed around eight thousand post ago.

    Ps Griffith’s posts makes up the missing ones.

    )

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  243. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Shawn L H so you’ve lived in the USA etc and this gives you special qualifications to comment about”

    Compared to you specifically, hell yes!

    “What a load of condescending and patronizing twaddle.”

    No, that would be you responding to any anti-Obama statement with screams of “RACISM!!!” and posting articles claiming Republicans are white supremacists.

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  244. Reid (16,472 comments) says:

    The vitriolic outpourings on “Hot Topic”, for instance, leave me with a tainted aura.

    You need to protect your aura Maggie.

    Personally I’ve always found it most useful to recognise the simple truth that it’s not what happens to you, it’s how you process what happens to you, that counts.

    If you learn how to do it right, your aura becomes bullet-proof, even when you or more importantly your loved ones are being tortured and killed in front of you and trivial matters like words on a blog site are of course thousands of miles behind that.

    Very few people have even started on the path toward learning that and even fewer know that potential exists, but it does. But the rarity of that explains the world we see, which is filled with hate, because it is founded on fear.

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  245. Griff (7,728 comments) says:

    Dog removed after critically injuring boy
    Had me wondering were they removed the dog from
    but its just another case of Darwin at work
    get a lovely little cuddly pit bull to protect the family
    result
    it eats your kid
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10341427/Dog-removed-after-critically-injuring-boy

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  246. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Shawn LH, where specifically have I responded to anti Obama comments claiming Republicans etc. are white supremacists.?

    Am glad you’ve apparently backed down on your claim that your American origins somehow gives you somehow exclusive rights to make informed comment about your place of birth.
    That am sure Alex Jones and coy would agree even though I find their politics and ideas rather distasteful
    .Hope you do too.?

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  247. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    “Shawn LH, where specifically have I responded to anti Obama comments claiming Republicans etc. are white supremacists.?”

    Look at the article you posted first thing today. And I have seen you do so on many occasions.

    “Am glad you’ve apparently backed down on your claim that your American origins somehow gives you somehow exclusive rights to make informed comment about your place of origin.”

    Again, don’t be a dick Stephie, I never made that claim. I was talking about you specifically.

    “That am sure Alex Jones and coy would agree even though I find their politics and ideas rather distasteful
    .Hope you do too.?”

    What does Alex Jones have to do with anything we are talking about?

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  248. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Your support is probably the most damming evidence possible on KB for the stupidity of the rest of the wing nuts ugly tin foil boy.
    keep it up

    Still no explanation from you as to why the data adjustments typically favour the AGW camp, Griff?
    Or comments on William Connolly’s stint as gatekeeper at Wikipedia, making it a bastion for the AGW crowd?
    Or the Climategate2 emails, which include Jim Salinger trying to get Climate Research journal editor Chris de Freitas fired when Salinger was working for NIWA?

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  249. stephieboy (3,102 comments) says:

    Alex Jones is an American who like you makes various claims about US affairs and especially Obama..I doubt even he would agree with your line of reasoning about in a superior position to comment about his country
    Which article are you specifically referring to ?.Even if a certain article made such a claim it does not necessarily follow I agree with all this comments and conclusions.
    Finally I believe many comments made about Obama, including by some Republicans, are I believe largely racially based
    .I stand by that claim.

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  250. RF (1,399 comments) says:

    Bloody precious Daniel Carter is off the field after injuring his leg. For Christs sake… What happened to the cotton wool.

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  251. Tauhei Notts (1,715 comments) says:

    C’mon Crusaders’ Lift your game!

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  252. ShawnLH (5,128 comments) says:

    Oh dear Stephie, you really don’t do honest debate do you? You have to misrepresent people. That is sad.

    “I doubt even he would agree with your line of reasoning about in a superior position to comment about his country”

    My ability to comment about the US compared to YOU PERSONALLY is because I understand the country better than you do.

    The fact that you think Alex Jones is representaive of the Right in the US is proof you have no clue what you are talking about. Millions of people on the Right have valid issues with Obama’s policies, but rather than treat them seriously you stick them all in your little “far right” box and associate them with fringe people like Jones. That’s just plain ignorant and lazy.

    “Which article are you specifically referring to ?”

    The same one I have been talking about all day. If you don’t know by now it proves you are not an honest debater, becauee you’re not listening to anyone but yourself.

    It was this one: http://defendingthetruth.com/current-events/41250-obama-forced-clean-up-another-republican-mess.html

    Look at the first paragraph. It’s total crap.

    “Finally I believe many comments made about Obama, including by some Republicans, are I believe largely racially based
    .I stand by that claim.”

    Of course you do, it’s a lazy and dishonest way to attack people when you cannot think of a valid argument.

    I’m done with you. Your not interested in open and honest debate. You’re clearly ignorant of US domestic politics. You deeply, deeply bigoted towards the right and repeatedly show no understanding of the varieties and differences between people and groups the right, and you don’t want to know because it’s easier just to insult people with claims of “far right” and “racism”.

    Bye. Life is short and you are not worth wasting time on.

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  253. Tauhei Notts (1,715 comments) says:

    The Waikato Times report that a truck carrying 400 bobby calves left the road on Piako Road amd a vet had to euthanase 60 cows.
    Remember the old days when the Waikato Times had an ounce of knowledge about the dairy industry.

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  254. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Tauhei Notts:

    What knowledge are you referring to – the 400 cows or the 60 bobby calves? :)

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  255. RF (1,399 comments) says:

    McCaw has cost the Crusaders the game. It will be a quiet flight home for him. Maybe people will wake up to his professional fouls that he gets away with over here.

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  256. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Bruv will have just lost his lolly.. Sir Richie costs the Cantabs a championship.

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  257. Nookin (3,345 comments) says:

    I wonder if dad just did $20,000? He may have to ask the church for a loan

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  258. Nookin (3,345 comments) says:

    I missed the penalty. What was it for?

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  259. Tauhei Notts (1,715 comments) says:

    Nostradamus, you could be the farming correspondent for any paper.
    If a truck is carrying, at this time of the year, 400 bobby calves it is obviously a truck and trailer unit with two decks.

    Therefore, unless you know as much about dairy farming as Russel Norman, you will realise that any truck and trailer unit with 400 bobby calves will have no room left for any cows, let alone any Green Party activists.

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  260. Colville (2,269 comments) says:

    Six months ago I would have defended Sir Ritchie but now its on the brink.

    The game was likely to come down to a penalty, just a pity we had to wear the last one.. But Yeah likely Ritchie was there to give the last one away.

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  261. Colville (2,269 comments) says:

    nookin.
    Entering from the side and or playing the ball on that ground as he was not the tackler.

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  262. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    I wonder if the best ever 10 playing at 10 would have helped..

    Maybe dagg should have played centre!

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  263. Colville (2,269 comments) says:

    Dime.
    he went off at 30 mins. didnt matter much.
    I think he is in his last months of top tier rugby too.

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  264. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Coalville – they used doc as a battering ram and he got hurt.

    Blackadder should buy a new world

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  265. Nookin (3,345 comments) says:

    They need Crotty at 12 and something big, fast and ferocious at 13. Freuan was an option but health issues stood in the way. Blackadder realised for the first time this year that big and fast on the flank works.

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  266. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Too funny – Kieran Reid giving the loser’s speech. Poor little fella. Started repeating himself giving credit to the opposition again and something else. Painful to watch – he was like a socially awkward tongue-tied deer-caught-in-the-headlights young teenager. He should try out for Labour leader – perfect. He’s already had a go at a losing speech.

    Super Rugby is gay using conference format. Totally gay. Bring back S12/14 round robin.

    Bullshit soft streak of piss Aussie conference means racking up easy peasy home advantage competition points. Fuck – why not just play the Rebels ten times in a row and top the table with a million points ? That’s not far off how it actually is. Dumb.

    Well done Crusaders – 60 000 pairs of brown underdaks is not a bad effort. They’ve won a final by one point in Canberra in 2000, and now lost by one point in Sydney in 2014 in similar fashion. The circle of life or irony or some such. What goes around comes around. Charming working class moronic phrase from America evolved from unevolved sirloin saturated slapstick tacky saps tick-tapping circus freaks who reek of deep-fried chic hot-wired not-desired and short-circuited who are limited to communicating only in T shirt / text / twitter sloganese.

    Dan Carter is cursed in Big Matches. ’07 and ’11 RWC play-offs. 2014 Super Rugby final. Who does he think he is . . . Rafael faeking Nadal ? I’d keep Stephen Donald’s cellphone number around just in case old glass jaw goes down on cue in 2015 – after all – Stephen did score 37.5% of NZ’s points in the 2011 final. He’s clearly got a proven record of getting it done then. You want dudes who bite the bullet – not the dust.

    Here’s a stat – Crusaders 0-4 in last four away finals. That would look ok embroidered into some red and black cushions at the artist formerly known as ‘we are the greatest but we don’t like to shout about it’ newly renamed ‘close-but-no-cigar’ headquarters. Oh well – let’s look for a positive. ‘One more year’ isn’t much of a sledge in Super Rugby, eh ? Just choking. Ooooo – that’s them again. What am I like ??

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