General Debate 30 August 2014

August 30th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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173 Responses to “General Debate 30 August 2014”

  1. Tauhei Notts (1,724 comments) says:

    1st

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  2. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    I see TV3 is continuing its three yearly subversive attack on the present administration.

    Last year it was Bryan Bruce’s ‘poverty’ documentary programmed three days out from the election; now it seems Campbell Live – clearly just as a coincidence – is rebooting its ‘Kids Can’ free lunches in schools series of VT items. Just in case anybody forgot about the billions dying from poverty here in New Zealand. Last night they went to a high decile school in Auckland – all kids had proper lunches, then to a lower decile school, hardly anybody had lunches.

    As proper journalists, you’d think they would go round to the kids’ parents and ask them why they didn’t give their kids lunches. Jamie Whyte is right. Laziness.

    National only have themselves to blame. They should have let TV3 crash and burn when it was discovered Mediaworks had a 500 million debt. Don’t even get me started on the timing of Latta on TV1 either.

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  3. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    The best election outcome for the country is unlikely to happen, but it should be more carefully considered.

    Labour don’t yet deserve to lead a Government. They have performed poorly through two terms in opposition. They are yet to clear out dead would and look like seriously rebuilding. They need more time to wake up and shape up.

    National have done a reasonable job seeing the country through very difficult economic times. David Cunliffe conceded that in the leader’s debate.They have mostly competent ministers and a moderate approach and being far ahead of Labour in support (up to double) they are the logical option to lead Government again despite being under pressure from some quarters at the moment.

    Winston Peters has proven yet again that he’s prepared to smear and make unsubstantiated accusations to hurt parties and ruin careers. He is throwing his dirt now and has done it through his return term. This approach doesn’t deserve political reward.

    Conservatives, Internet-Mana and Act are all new and if they get into Parliament they need time to establish themselves and learn the ropes. They need time to earn a place in positions of ministerial responsibility Government.

    The other significantly sized party is Greens. They are overdue for playing an active role in Government. They are very well organised and as prepared as any party could be to step up.

    While many people like some Green input, especially on environmental and social issues, there’s a resistance to them having to much economic input. They haven’t been helped by Labour’s weakness – this has exaggerated the perception of how influential they would be. Hence they have struggled to raise their support since the last election.

    I think a National-Green combination would be well balanced. Greens have all but ruled out considering this but if they did it would be their best chance of increasing support.

    If Greens got 15% to Nationals 40-45% we would have a stable coalition. Most Green ministerial positions would be at associate level to let them gain experience at this level.

    National’s prudent economic management could continue, with the added benefit of a sizable and vigorous voice for environmental and social considerations.

    Greens more reasonable and principled approach would also help moderate the dirtier side of politics.

    National would probably include UnitedFuture, ACT and Maori Party as bit players if they survive the election.

    If this worked well and I see no reason why it wouldn’t this would benefit Greens in the longer term, to the extent that it could enable them to establish themselves as a political force alongside rather than subservient to Labour.

    When National are inevitably voted out (although a successful Green+National arrangement could extend their reign) the Greens would have the experience to transition to a new coalition in a very strong position.

    Greens have virtually ruled out working like this with National, but they made that stand months ago. Since then National have shown they need more holding to account for mistakes and dirty politics, Labour have slipped rather than recovered, Internet-Mana has injected a left wing component that is off putting to many, and Winston and his NZ First have proven less deserving of serious consideration than ever.

    Greens and National would both benefit if they reconsidered their non-association stances.

    And the resulting Government would be the best way for the country to benefit. What’s best for the country should be the primary consideration of the parties and the voters.

    I think this would be a very popular (with voters) way out of the current mess.

    If Greens reconsidered their current stance they could make a compelling case to go with National. Some of their activists may spit tacks but they should consider the Maori Party ethos of it being better to be influential at the table than perpetually frustrated out in the cold.

    If Tame Iti can learn and change and see the sense in this approach then surely the Greens could.

    This is by far the best election outcome I can think of. Likely alternatives are seriously concerning.

    Also posted at http://yournz.org/2014/08/30/the-best-election-outcome/

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  4. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    I say 12 months home D is an outrage. I wonder what the sentence would have been if he had of been offending against young girls. He should have got 5 years minimum but homosexuals are very good at playing the victim card.

    The article mentions his son’s suicide. I wonder what was the cause. I have no proof but I wonder what caused the son to commit suicide – his father’s paedophilia?

    I guess it could be worse. The homosexual pervert could have got Judge Cunningham and got discharged without conviction and permanent name suppression.

    Doctor who abused boys struck off

    By Patrice Dougan
    5:08 PM Friday Aug 29, 2014

    A doctor who was found guilty of indecently assaulting two young boys, who were the children of a family friend, has been struck off.
    Dr I admitted the charges in September last year and was sentenced to 12 months home detention on each of the two charges

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316250

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  5. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    ACT party leader Jamie Whyte says businesses are reluctantly opting for immigrant labour because New Zealanders are not up to getting out of bed and going to work.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/253361/nz-workers-not-up-to-job-says-act-leader
    ………
    As Bob Jones says: “immigrants are hungry”
    Of course they come from places where people are starving and want to get afoot in the door. Voltaire talked about history being full of the sound of silk slippers coming down the stairs and wooden shoes going up (not sure if that is quite what he meant?).
    I’f housing was cheaper they might have more incentive as motivation is a function of the value of a goal and probability of achieving it.
    Also we don’t (I don’t) know the situation down on the farm? I have heard that you share a house? I imagine it is a lonely proposition for a townie , unlike (say a mining camp where you have lots of company?).
    As a society with a bell shaped curve, using immigrants as a solution doesn’t deal with the bottom portion?

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  6. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Pete –

    ‘I think a National-Green combination would be well balanced.’

    Yeah, like a Hamas / Israeli combination!

    hj – Whyte is correct. Look around you; in hospitals all over the country, Filipino nurses, only too happy for the sheer drudgery and long hours. Dairy farms, especially down south, again, run by Filipinos and South Americans. Orchards; manned by PIs only too happy for the work. Kiwis want the dream job in the town they live and a good wage to go with it thankyou very much. Seen it all my life.

    A lot of the time, the difference between the haves and the have nots is the wills and the will nots

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  7. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Chuck Bird (4,750 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 8:05 am

    What was the degree of offending? Did it involve penetration, was it long term, were the victims traumatised by the experience, etc?

    Before one can pass judgment on the sentencing, we really need to know the circumstances. Sexual abuse of children is a very serious issue, however, the behaviours can reach from one end of the continuum to the other in severity. That is how the sentencing would be decided, along with any other punishment the offender would have had, such as being unable to practice etc.

    Do you know for sure the Doctor is homosexual, or are you again getting muddled between homosexuality and paedophilia?

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  8. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ duggledog (1,428 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 8:13 am

    Wonderful description!

    I reckon a coalition with National/Greens/NZFirst would be much better – make Winston the speaker! Peter Jackson would be able to use parliamentary sittings as a base for his next movie! We’d have it all, drama, comedy and maybe even violence!

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  9. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    Judith, did you read the whole story I linked to before you commented?

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  10. Scott Chris (6,150 comments) says:

    5 Applications For Graphene, The ‘Wonder Material,’ That Could Change The Way We Live

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/graphene-applications-2014-6

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  11. oldpark (338 comments) says:

    Labours dirty politics ambush that backfired.Labour dragged the Public servant Chairman of NZ Post, Sullen Michael Cullen,and another Labour ratbag, known as The Minister for Dirt Pete Hodgson.We could have expected the betrayal by Hodgson,living up to his name.Michael Cullen who John Key gave a lifeline to, when by promoting him to top spot in NZ Post.Cullen has completely bitten the hand that has helped feed him in the last six years.Seems for months Labour has been running a mock leaders debate,throwing all sorts of barbs at Cunliffe and Cullen acting as John Key.Labour knows that Cunliffe has a very short fuse,so they kept agitating him to the point of explosion,took at least three seconds.Sadly for Labours dirty filthy back street type of politics ,with the two faced Cullen on board the ambush failed.The result 61% to Our man for all reasons and seasons John Key.The mentioned motley crew of sycophants,hangers on ENDED UP SUCKING LEMONS WITH EGG ON THEIR DIRTY POLITICS FACES..Not forgetting Sullen Cullen who has breached the etiquette policy of the once proud NZ PUBLIC SERVICE,also bring them into disrepute.Looking forward to the blanket MSM trade union infested coverage of this type of Dirty Politics.Oh I forgot it is only dirty politics when National are accused of it.

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  12. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    ‘I think a National-Green combination would be well balanced.’They have certian similarities:

    Let me say clearly now: the housing crisis is not the fault of recent migrants; the unemployment rate is not the fault of recent migrants; and asylum seekers are not a threat to us.

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2014/06/03/immigration-the-green-party-perspective/

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  13. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Chuck Bird (4,751 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 8:19 am

    No, that is why I put the little ? at the end of the sentence – I was asking you questions. The fact is Chuck, I get sick of your homophobia – it’s kind of extreme, which is telling in itself. But you also have frequently in the past insisted on muddling the ground between homosexuality and paedophilia, therefore I thought I would save time and just ask you instead.

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  14. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Pete –

    ‘What’s best for the country should be the primary consideration of the parties and the voters.’

    ‘If Tame Iti can learn and change and see the sense in this approach then surely the Greens could.’

    You need a holiday my friend. When you get back, seek professional help

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  15. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    ‘Greens more reasonable and principled approach would also help moderate the dirtier side of politics.’

    That’s a long bow if you’re referring to the stuff which has come out recently about misuse of the OIA in particular. The only way the Greens could moderate that is if it were policy confirmed before going into any coalition. Moderating the ‘dirtier side of politics’ should be cross party policy and we should be hearing about it now with the expectation that all parties would be giving it endorsement. As Mathew Hooten is saying there is something rotten in the Beehive at the moment, examples of that are littered over the last few years – many times it’s the same players, and with the OIA in particular the same modus operandi despite different individuals being involved. That ‘seat’ of the political distortion is common and the candidates, and parties should be telling us now what they are going to do about it – the alternative is that it that the aftermath will continue on for years. JK has used it at least once according to Hooten’s (and many in the public’s) observations and Collins subsequently twice giving a fair indication that it isn’t random, and that its use is condoned from the very top. That may be the reason Key can’t or won’t move against Collins.

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  16. Nukuleka (332 comments) says:

    duggledog: I’ve posted before about my own personal circumstance in ‘parenting’ a secondary school relative- PI boy- attending a local school. Every morning I have to force him to eat breakfast, and if I’m not on the job he will choose not to eat. I give him money for lunch and he will usually choose not to buy any. Were I to make sandwiches I am sure he would choose to bin them! Not a question of poverty but of choice and culture.

    In the Islands it has not been part of their way of life to eat breakfast. Fact. Show me starving, emaciated kids in New Zealand and then I’ll think seriously about the issue of child poverty.

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  17. oldpark (338 comments) says:

    Heard a story the other day from a Labour Party insider, why Cunliffe had to go on holiday.Seems he was into too many Chinese Takeaways.He was told to give up Chinese takeaways until after the election.Something like if it was revealed,it would not look good.Who would have even thought that Chinese takeaways could be so injurious to Cunliffe’s political health.Perhaps he got a female legal opinion on it.

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  18. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    ” The fact is Chuck, I get sick of your homophobia”

    Judith, I am sick of you stupidity and bigotry. Rather than cut and paste the whole article like you do I provided a link. Your defending a paedophile without bothering to look at the article is even sicker than you lobbying the taxpayer to pay David Bain who on the balance of probabilities is one on New Zealand’s worse mass murderers.

    While he was staying at the family home he would creep into the boys’ bedrooms or into the bathroom while they were showering and indecently assault them, the HPDT said.

    “The offence relates to a health practitioner’s core professional obligation to avoid any unlawful sexual conduct as it fundamentally undermines the trust and confidence that the community must have in a health practitioner,” the decision said.

    “Sexual offending against young and vulnerable children under the age of 12 years must always be regarded as morally, ethically and professionally repugnant.”It said the offences were “at the more serious end of the broad range of indecent acts” and “amongst the most serious offending that this tribunal has to deal with”.

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  19. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    One thing the Greens are right about:

    The housing crisis is primarily a predictable result of successive government’s decisions to leave housing to the free market and refusing to institute a capital gains tax. The Green Party does however want to put restrictions on home ownership for people who are not permanent residents because offshore speculation in our housing market has contributed to the increased price. We didn’t support the National government’s decision introduce (25th July 2011) “Residential Property Development” to the list of acceptable investment types for wealthy overseas investors to apply for visas here.

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2014/06/03/immigration-the-green-party-perspective/

    “One mortgage broker spoken to by Investigate says the official figures suggesting only two percent of residential properties are being sold to foreigners are wrong.

    “It’s nowhere near that low. The reason the government’s official figures seem low is because they are only capturing foreigners who buy in their own names.”

    Asked what he meant, the broker explained: “A large number of foreign investors are structuring their residential property purchases here through New Zealand shelf companies with a New Zealand resident director. To all intents and purposes the properties are being bought by ‘New Zealand’ entities, and they won’t show up on lists of foreign purchases.”

    Economist Tony Alexander last year posted details on his website of what he told an inquiring Chinese journalist about the real levels of Asian involvement in the Auckland property market:

    “My survey of real estate agents indicates about 20% of dwelling sales go to people located in China. There is no information on foreign purchasing of houses in NZ beyond that survey and much more work needs to be done before one can say definitively what the actual proportion is. More than a simple survey is needed for that. There is no information on the proportion of the housing stock currently owned by foreigners and certainly zero information on any of the characteristics of any of the foreign groups buying houses in New Zealand.

    “With regard to Chinese buying of houses — I have yet to find a single person in New Zealand who agrees with the survey results. Everyone believes that the true level of Chinese house buying in Auckland in particular is much higher than my survey suggests. The issue is rarely mentioned with regard to any other part of New Zealand,” says Alexander.”

    http://www.itsnotok.net.nz/#!interest-rates/cqns

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  20. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    In less than a day Winston Peters went from…

    Winston Peters: I always keep confidential conversations confidential. I have never ever given a source away to anyone.

    …to encouraging journalists to take what he’d fed them to discover his source to threatening to produce witnesses.

    Winston Peters is challenging Judith Collins to sue him for defamation over his claims she plotted against the Prime Minister.

    Winston Peters: I bet she won’t, because then I will produce the witnesses.

    Trust Winston Peters? Peters admits he wouldn’t protect his source

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  21. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    A resounding majority of voters think Winston Peters’ joke that “two Wongs don’t make a right” was just harmless fun, according to the latest Herald-Digipoll.
    Just under a third of those polled found the comment offensive and racist.

    The New Zealand First leader made the joke at the party’s campaign launch in Auckland just over two weeks ago.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11314554

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  22. calendar girl (1,242 comments) says:

    Spare me the Greens in coalition with National. I would take “Winston First” in preference to that, any day.

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  23. Paulus (2,632 comments) says:

    Watching Peters on TV last night my wife passed comment about him, which I had not considered.
    She said that he is afraid of strong women which is why he got rid of (idiot) Williams in favour of his present deputy somebody Tracey Martin. As I have never heard her contribute anything to Parliament she is ideal for Winston.
    Williams is only a non compliant man remember. Ron Mark is a danger to Winston – I am sure Winston would rather not have him in which is why he is lowly rated.
    Martin is like the monkey on his string if you watch in Parliament – she nods and is no threat to his Worship, whereas people like some of the National MPs are well educated and strong women.
    Which is why he is obsessed with Collins.
    He saw the possibility that she could possibly be another women leader and in conjunction with his press mates he has succeeded in destroying her chances.
    Winston could not stand that – remember what he thought of Jenny Shipley – the audacity of a women leader upset him so he continually slugged her and still does.
    The Bolger weak style of leadership suits Winston best hence his dislike of Key – he is strong. Cunliffe he could have walking around behind him on string.

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  24. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    I cannot keep this a secret any longer.

    I was approached last week, by someone who is a highly credible individual, with connections deep into sitting members of NZ First. The approach wasn’t subtle, it was very blunt. Winston wanted to know (so the individual told me, I have no reason to think this would NOT be true) if he could (and I’m not going to reveal my source, but I will stake my life on it, AND swear an affidavit!) have carnal knowledge of Meteria.

    Now, Im not one to gossip, but surely this evidence – for thats what it is, even though I cannot corroborate it in any way whatsoever – means that Winston is entirely unfit to be a man, let alone an MP.

    Fuck off Winston, go back to cheating on your keeper of Herne Bay.

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  25. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Chuck Bird (4,752 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 8:39 am

    I never defended anybody Chuck. I am simply trying to point out to you a common mistake you often make. So you are admitting he is a paedophile. At long last you accept there is a difference between paedophillia and homosexuality – we are making progress, so you won’t need to mention homosexuality in connection with this case again.

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  26. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    hj – that was minor. Of bigger concern is:

    – one Winston doesn’t make a party
    – one Winston smear shouldn’t win an election
    – pissing outside the tent is piddling in comparison to one Winston inside

    If Greens or Internet-Mana tried to trash Labour as Winston has tried with National those promoting (clinging to) power at any stench would be whacking them with a stink stick.

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  27. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Down with the venal Peters (the chap who wont walk with the boysWhistle blower)!

    There is a danger that a sector of the economy is being augmented that is totally reliant on a
    small domestic economy. Not only do these industries have limited potential for per-capita
    growth but ‘deriving growth via factor inputs such as labour places pressure on infrastructure
    such as transport and land supply, and ultimately have a further negative impact on growth
    (ARC 2005). Finally, as the sector gets larger, it gains in lobbying/political strength and can
    lobby for immigration regardless if it is the best interests of the economy as a whole. This
    could be seen in Canada where the development industry has lobbied hard for high sustained
    immigration levels (Ley and Tutchener 2001).

    Government policies blamed for house prices

    “Immigration and tax breaks for investment in residential property are being cited as the underlying causes of steep increases in the cost of housing over the past decade.
    New Zealand now boasts one of the highest rates of home unaffordability in the world as a result of prices rising far faster than incomes, and the government’s Savings Working Group blames that squarely on the policies of successive governments.
    Although “the favourable tax treatment of property investment” accounted for about 50% of house price increases between 2001 and 2007, the working group said, there was also strong evidence that rapid swings in immigration brought about price-rise “shocks”.
    There was a sharp spike in immigration in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and, said working group committee member Dr Andrew Coleman, it appeared that property prices did not fall anywhere near as greatly when immigration fell again.
    The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit. ”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices

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  28. marcw (249 comments) says:

    I will believe there is true poverty in NZ when unemployed adults are moving to the Philippines to take up labouring jobs, and sending money back home to feed and house the family. Until then, will the MSM please grow up and get real about NZ’s position in the wider world. Honestly, blaming the Government for every feckless parent or layabout drug-addled adult out there is just gutless, and the fact that there are ANY farm job vacancies that can’t be filled by NZers is just pathetic. Why WINZ continues to support these people is one of today’s great mysteries.

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  29. flash2846 (287 comments) says:

    @ Judith – Given that the number of boys molested by men out-ways the number of girls molested by men I can see a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia. Obviously no all but clearly more than is politically correct to mention.

    I remember hearing the men’s changing room at the local swimming pool/gym referred to as a “buffet” by a group of male flight attendants so I guess the offending has a lot to do with opportunity. To be fair I believe the flight attendants were referring to more mature hunky males but pedophiles would of course sniff out the same opportunities.

    Any disease, virus and illness must be diagnosed correctly without preconceived bias before the right medication can be prescribed. The same goes for pedophilia; pinpoint the types of perpetrator accurately and then work towards prevention.

    Just my opinion

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  30. IGM (421 comments) says:

    flash: All homosexuals are potential child molesters (check statistical evidence of convicted teachers, there still being hundreds hidden by NZEI restrictions), this has always been the case.

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  31. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ flash2846 (220 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 9:02 am

    I am not quite sure where you get the statistics that form your opinion from but they are way out. The number of females sexually abused by males, far outweighs male/male sexual abuse. I think you might be basing your opinion on the number of cases that get reported in the media. Because male/female sexual abuse is so common, the media fail to report it any more.

    The paedophile is sexually attracted to the immature physique, as opposed to the sexualised body of an adolescent or older, therefore it is not a matter of sexuality of the child that is the attraction, which is why many paedophiles have had both male and female victims.

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  32. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ IGM (89 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 9:08 am

    If you must insist on making stupid statements like that, then using the statistics, which indicate that adults are the most common sexual abusers, we could also argue that all adults are potential child molesters too! Can you be any more stupid?

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  33. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Why WINZ continues to support these people is one of today’s great mysteries.
    ……
    I remember working on a farm at Hastings. Big fat lovable “Bub’s” would be out there at dawn picking the asparagus with her whanau. Anyone who has studied business management knows there are factors that motivate and demotivate leading to job satisfaction “experienced meaningfulness”, “autonomy”, “knowledge of results”, “skill variety” (working in a group?). We don’t know the circumstances of labour on these distant diary farms. I’m told there is friction between the new money which “tends to make them a bit arrogant” and the sheep farmer. They also say that there is friction in the pub when newcomers arrive “the dregs of society”?
    Anyway there is more to it that Alison Mau’s opinion “New Zealanders are too lazy for them” (Seven Sharp)

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  34. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    “I never defended anybody Chuck.”

    I know you seldom fully read other’s posts before commenting. It now appears you do not even read you own.

    You were clearly trying to defend the sick bisexual paedophile. You were saying his loss of being able to work in his profession should count as part of his punishment. I not know or care if penetration took place. I say 12 months home D is a totally inadequate sentence for anyone who sexually offends against children. I have no use for paedophiles or their apologists.

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  35. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    “therefore it is not a matter of sexuality of the child that is the attraction, which is why many paedophiles have had both male and female victims.”

    Judith show us proper research that confirms you opinion.

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  36. flash2846 (287 comments) says:

    @ Judith
    We are talking about children being molested; not adults (‘pedophilia’) and I thought it was common knowledge that most victims of child abuse were males. Certainly the shear volume of male sexual offenders who claim to have been molested would support that.

    You just keep your politically correct head in the sand, blame white heterosexual males for all the worlds woes and sit back while other innocent little boys are having their lives ruined forever. You might have guessed now that I have intimate knowledge of this subject.

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  37. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    @ Pete regarding National-Greens Coalition

    This possibility fails at the first hurdle. They are so opposite to each other on virtually every area that matters- Employment, taxation, justice, environment, agriculture, education, health… coalition partners need to have common ground.

    More likely would be a coalition of National-Labour. Their policies are closer, and the way Labour are trending they’re becoming a minor party quite quickly.

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  38. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    A paedophile can’t help himself lusting after children. It is a wiring issue. I always used to wonder what was meant in The Lord’s Prayer “And lead us not into temptation”? Before people condemn paedophiles they should thank their luck stars it isn’t them. It would be better if paedophiles came out so they could have a watch put on them.
    In the movie {?} Ringo Starr is given 3 wishes by the devil: there he is in the grounds of his magnificent mansion when when he has to duck as a machine gun opens up. The devil made him a drug lord. The devil might otherwise granted his wishes but made him a paedophile?
    Having said that some paedophiles rationalise that they can “have a (mutual) relationship with a child”.

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  39. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Christians are being slaughtered in Iraq and Syria. We might give them some priority on our refugee quota.

    Or would they need to be transgender?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316450

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  40. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Wine Oh

    Couldn’t have said it better myself!

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  41. jcuk (693 comments) says:

    Pete George 8.04

    As I consider how I add my miniscule donation to the latest Greens appeal for money, waiting for ‘next month’ on my credit card :) I think a National-Green coalition would be a great thing to try and less horrific than alternatives currently facing us.

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  42. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    @hj

    A paedophile can’t help himself lusting after children.

    A higher order of fuckwittery from hj than usual.

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  43. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    Christians are being slaughtered in Iraq and Syria. We might give them some priority on our refugee quota.

    What I don’t understand is why they don’t just use prayer.

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  44. minus (201 comments) says:

    Oldpark – Heard a story the other day from a Labour Party insider, why Cunliffe had to go on holiday.Seems he was into too many Chinese Takeaways …

    This seems to be a rumour, rumoured to being spread by Robertson, that Cunliffe has done a “Pants Down Len Brown”. Little comments popup here (on Kiwiblog) and there (on Whaleoil) but nothing substantial, so either it is nothing, or those with any evidence are waiting to drop it closer to where it will do more damage – just before the Election, which would be good rather than just after, when apparently nothing can be done about it, as in Len’s case.

    But at the moment there seems about as much in this as there is in Winston’s latest fantasy – just not quite so much publicity

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  45. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    What I don’t understand is why they don’t just use prayer.

    Ouch. Hardly fair. But I’m sure they are praying, maybe just praying even. Need to try harder. God is hard to please. I never win Lotto.

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  46. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Rather than yap about the absence or presence of a “rape culture” a scientific development that should discourage creeps who use drugs to stupefy potential victims. Hopefully available in NZ soon.

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d449m5brfb4dl9p/Useful%20Invention.png?dl=0

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  47. jcuk (693 comments) says:

    WineOh (599 comments) says: August 30th, 2014 at 9:24 am

    Comments like that are why I’d welcome a Nat-Green government to protect us from the extremism of the far right .. almost as horrific as the LabNZFgimp coalition.
    The Greens already co-operated with the Nats over house insulation so it is a viable solution for the future in other fields
    Just keep the extremist of both parties under control :)

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  48. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Pete George. If National had remained right wing then I would tend to agree with you, but National is only centre right by declaration. Observation shows it is left wing; Labour is flummoxed.

    The reason we have immigration with consequent high house prices and no real capital gains tax is someone is making a lot of money out of it.

    Nothing blinds people to reality as easily, quickly and deeply as a vested interest. Bias.

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  49. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Judith. You make a queer distinction between homosexuality and paedophilia. If the man is attracted to males he is still a homosexual, whatever their age. Homo means same. (I don’t care what the law says, by the way, I’m speaking facts, reality.)

    It’s interesting how homosexuality is seen as normal and paedophilia as a disease. In reality, this difference is rooted only in what is or is not acceptable to society. Moral reasons.

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  50. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    The reason we have immigration with consequent high house prices and no real capital gains tax is someone is making a lot of money out of it.

    High house prices are not the inevitable result of an increased population, they are the result of government restrictions on development.

    As for the absence of a capital gains tax, who here imagines that taxing housing is the way to reduce prices?

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  51. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    To follow up on my previous comment: There is no reason to believe that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to be paedophiles:

    Reflecting the results of these and other studies, as well as clinical experience, the mainstream view among researchers and professionals who work in the area of child sexual abuse is that homosexual and bisexual men do not pose any special threat to children. For example, in one review of the scientific literature, noted authority Dr. A. Nicholas Groth wrote:
    Are homosexual adults in general sexually attracted to children and are preadolescent children at greater risk of molestation from homosexual adults than from heterosexual adults? There is no reason to believe so. The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual (Groth & Gary, 1982, p. 147).

    In a later literature review, Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy (1998) similarly cautioned against confusing homosexuality with pedophilia. He noted, “The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women” (p. 259).

    Source:http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

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  52. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    wat dabney. All things being equal, an increasing population will increase house prices, and all things being equal, taxing increase in wealth created one way but not another will distort investment and effort. It is also deeply unfair.

    If you can’t see that then you have a mental block.

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  53. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Adze. Yes, the men who are not sexually attracted to boys are no danger to boys. Agree 100%.

    Anecdotally, homosexuals are attracted to younger men. Perfectly natural. I have absolutely no interest sexually in woman my own age. Half my age, maybe. (Sorry, Judith, I was really waiting for the right time to tell you. ;) )

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  54. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    adze, I do not care whether they are called peadophiles or hebephiles. Hebephiles are attracted and molest adolescents just around or after puberty and homosexual hebephiles if you prefer are greatly overrepresented compared to heterosexual hebephiles taking the number of homosexual in the population comapred to hetersexuals.

    If a man sex with a male adolescent be he 12 or 16 he is still a homosexual.

    The sick homosexual hebephile up north would not have had so many victims if complaints were taken seriously. Part of the reason they were not is the fear of the label homophobe.

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  55. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Dennis Horne
    “Adze. Yes, the men who are not sexually attracted to boys are no danger to boys. Agree 100%.”

    That isn’t what the quoted article said:

    The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women

    Chronophilia is not the same as homophilia, nor is there a reason to believe they are related in any relevant way.

    Chuck:

    homosexual hebephiles if you prefer are greatly overrepresented compared to heterosexual hebephiles taking the number of homosexual in the population comapred to hetersexuals

    Do you have a scholarly source for this?

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  56. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    This is kind of worrying. A Dell laptop, purportedly recovered from an ISIS hideout, with files talking about biological warfare, specifically the Bubonic Plague.

    AKYA, Turkey — Abu Ali, a commander of a moderate Syrian rebel group in northern Syria, proudly shows a black laptop partly covered in dust. “We took it this year from an ISIS hideout,” he says.

    Abu Ali says the fighters from the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), which have since rebranded themselves as the Islamic State, all fled before he and his men attacked the building. The attack occurred in January in a village in the Syrian province of Idlib, close to the border with Turkey, as part of a larger anti-ISIS offensive occurring at the time. “We found the laptop and the power cord in a room,” he continued, “I took it with me. But I have no clue if it still works or if it contains anything interesting.”

    As we switched on the Dell laptop, it indeed still worked. Nor was it password-protected. But then came a huge disappointment: After we clicked on “My Computer,” all the drives appeared empty.

    Appearances, however, can be deceiving. Upon closer inspection, the ISIS laptop wasn’t empty at all: Buried in the “hidden files” section of the computer were 146 gigabytes of material, containing a total of 35,347 files in 2,367 folders. Abu Ali allowed us to copy all these files — which included documents in French, English, and Arabic — onto an external hard drive.

    The laptop’s contents turn out to be a treasure trove of documents that provide ideological justifications for jihadi organizations — and practical training on how to carry out the Islamic State’s deadly campaigns. They include videos of Osama bin Laden, manuals on how to make bombs, instructions for stealing cars, and lessons on how to use disguises in order to avoid getting arrested while traveling from one jihadi hot spot to another.

    But after hours upon hours of scrolling through the documents, it became clear that the ISIS laptop contains more than the typical propaganda and instruction manuals used by jihadists. The documents also suggest that the laptop’s owner was teaching himself about the use of biological weaponry, in preparation for a potential attack that would have shocked the world.

    The information on the laptop makes clear that its owner is a Tunisian national named Muhammed S. who joined ISIS in Syria and who studied chemistry and physics at two universities in Tunisia’s northeast. Even more disturbing is how he planned to use that education:

    “The advantage of biological weapons is that they do not cost a lot of money, while the human casualties can be huge,” the document states.

    The document includes instructions for how to test the weaponized disease safely, before it is used in a terrorist attack. “When the microbe is injected in small mice, the symptoms of the disease should start to appear within 24 hours,” the document says.

    The laptop also includes a 26-page fatwa, or Islamic ruling, on the usage of weapons of mass destruction. “If Muslims cannot defeat the kafir [unbelievers] in a different way, it is permissible to use weapons of mass destruction,” states the fatwa by Saudi jihadi cleric Nasir al-Fahd, who is currently imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. “Even if it kills all of them and wipes them and their descendants off the face of the Earth.”

    When contacted by phone, a staff member at a Tunisian university listed on Muhammed’s exam papers confirmed that he indeed studied chemistry and physics there. She said the university lost track of him after 2011, however.

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/28/found_the_islamic_state_terror_laptop_of_doom_bubonic_plague_weapons_of_mass_destruction_exclusive

    Someone really has to stop these guys, instead of letting them go wild and exterminate people, and before something even worse happens.

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  57. Lindsay Addie (1,529 comments) says:

    Fletch,

    Do not expect any action to come from Obama, did he not say that he doesn’t have a strategy in place yet?

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  58. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women.

    Yes, the man who is sexually attracted to boys but not older men is a danger to boys and not older men.

    Assign any labels you like any which way.

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  59. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,718 comments) says

    As for the absence of a capital gains tax, who here imagines that taxing housing is the way to reduce prices?
    ….
    Land taxes would work. John Key admitted that,

    Prime Minister John Key reiterated later a land tax and broader capital gains tax were still off the cards. Asked whether the implementation of one or the other could allow government to reduce income taxes to give people more income to spend, he replied:
    “At the risk of repeating myself from last year, we looked at a land tax, and land taxes, one, reduce the value of land in New Zealand, by definition, and it has an impact on every single homeowner in New Zealand.”
    http://www.interest.co.nz/news/52737/imf-recommends-govt-broaden-capital-gains-tax-base-and-introduce-land-tax-your-view
    The down side of land taxes appears to be determining the value of land, but you have to consider the fairness (?) of income taxes (something we have just got used too). There isn’t necessarily a perfect system?
    I think Gareth Morgan is right; the big battery is wealth. For asset rich cash poor there will be swings and roundabouts.

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  60. 2clever4U (20 comments) says:

    Ebola for Africa. Nukes for the rest. Cut the population, take the oil.

    When are we going to get back to basics? We evolved this way. The global society has little to recommend it. Let’s preserve our values and expand Western Civilisation.

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  61. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    All things being equal, an increasing population will increase house prices,

    All things being equal, supply will increase in line with demand. New Zealand is, after all, very sparsely populated so it’s not like there’s a shortage of land. And as for particular hot-spots such as Auckland, the solution is to not live there.

    It’s the government’s artifical constraint on this demand/supply relationship which is the problem.

    …and all things being equal, taxing increase in wealth created one way but not another will distort investment and effort

    In the case of housing we’re talking about a distortion which encourages relative over-investment in housing, thereby inevitably lowering prices.

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  62. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    Judith Collins to resign.

    Did she willingly do a “Captain Oates”, or was she pushed?

    And does it make Joe Karam and David Bain the biggest potential winners?

    Sorry – couldn’t help asking the question. On your marks, Bainiacs, ready, set, go…!

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  63. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Kimbo. Welcome. Can you explain what “all things being equal” means and what happens if you have 10 houses in an area with 10 buyers one day and then 10 houses in the area with 20 buyers the next day.

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  64. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    Pete – “If Greens or Internet-Mana tried to trash Labour as Winston has tried with National those promoting (clinging to) power at any stench would be whacking them with a stink stick.”

    Is there really anybody that believes Winston will go with National. He s busy burning any bridges there may have been. Just a dickhead.

    Vote Winston, get Green/Mana/Internet/Labour. And don’t come whining here when that happens.

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  65. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    hj,

    Land taxes would work…

    What do you mean by “work”?

    Lower house prices? Probably But actually make people better off? Not really. They’d simply be paying the difference to the government. The question then is who would receive an off-setting benefit through supposed reduced income tax.

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  66. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    Fletch – “Someone really has to stop these guys, instead of letting them go wild and exterminate people, and before something even worse happens.”

    But we must encourage “diversity”.

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  67. eszett (2,417 comments) says:

    Judith Collins to resign

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11316644

    If you lie down with the whale you end up smelling fishy!

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  68. edd (157 comments) says:

    Collins had to go. Why did it take her so long to figure this out? Maybe she got death threats as well?

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  69. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Dennis Horne

    Umm, sorry, don’t know the background, and I won’t check the thread, so I can give you an answer that isn’t influenced by preconception.

    “All things being equal”= if all the expected and standard factors prevail in the envisaged scenario. So, for example, when National made a promise in the lead-up to the 2008 election that they would not raise GST, it was with the understanding there would be no “dramatic” and “unpredicted” events like the GFC, and Christchurch earthquakes. But there were. So the usual “all things being equal” did not apply. So they used it as a justification to act contrary to their previously-announced policy.

    National did the same in 1990 over repealing the National Super surcharge, which they said was de-railed by the BNZ financial crisis.

    And Labour did the same in 1984 when they took office and found out about the foreign exchange crisis, and devalued the NZ dollar, having previously said they wouldn’t.

    “what happens if you have 10 houses in an area with 10 buyers one day and then 10 houses in the area with 20 buyers the next day”

    An increase in demand without a corresponding increase in supply will result in a rise in house prices…all things being equal!

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  70. 2clever4U (20 comments) says:

    Has Collins’ resignation given Bain an ace? Well, Judith certainly manned up to the Karam gang. The pin-up-prime minister will do whatever is popular and easy. The process of moral creep.

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  71. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    what happens if you have 10 houses in an area with 10 buyers one day and then 10 houses in the area with 20 buyers the next day

    The real question is what will house prices be like a few years later, once the market has had time to respond (assuming it is allowed to.)

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  72. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Dennis Horne

    …and a question for you, Dennis (still haven’t checked out the thread, but I’m just guessing at what has prompted your question):

    All things being equal, which has proved over the long haul to be a better and more efficient provider of quality affordable (including the elimination of hidden costs to the economy) homes?

    The State, or Private Enterprise?

    Further, if it is the State, why don’t we have an entity called Kiwi Super Market?

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  73. gump (1,650 comments) says:

    I’m glad Collins is resigning.

    She showed exceptionally poor judgment and was seriously damaging the public perception of the National leadership.

    I wonder if Whale will add her head to his trophy wall? Because he certainly helped to destroy her career.

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  74. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    You won’t see this on the news. Michael Brown, the teenager who was shot by police in the U.S recently, causing a firestorm of protest, allegedly had a juvenile arrest record involving second degree murder.

    http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/172458-breaking-michael-brown-allegedly-involved-second-degree-murder-case/

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  75. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    Won’t see this on the news either. The local Tea Party in the town of Ferguson organized what they call a BUYcott – getting people to spend money at local businesses and stores that had been hit during the recent riots in order to help the owners.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/1493903794180978/

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  76. goldnkiwi (1,312 comments) says:

    Kimbo (723 comments) says:

    August 30th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    lol it was one of my first thoughts too amongst all the other distractions, of who would possibly benefit and been ‘helpful’.

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  77. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    @adze

    I could find one but it would be a waste of time as I know I would not change yours or Judith’s minds judging from the rainbow source you gave. Do you ever read the newspaper? Is so do some basic arithmetic. There less than 5% of the population who are either homosexual or bisexual.

    It is a fact that sadly that Maori are overrepresented in violent crime. Many on this blog like to point this out and blame all Maori for this fact. Similarly, victims of homosexual predators are very much overrepresented in the abuse of adolescents.

    Many of the public fail to accept this because of all the pro homosexual propaganda and this puts adolescents boys at risk. If James Parker invites girls to sleep over how many parents would agree? Why did the parents agree for boys to sleep over with a man living by himself?

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  78. fernglas (157 comments) says:

    What sound does a public outcry make?

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  79. G152 (349 comments) says:

    The jump in Nationals popularity will now negate all the Hager publishing stolen emails and Peters posturing.
    Collins will be back the day after the election and she will be gunning for the detractors with a newly elected National government behind her.
    Karmas a bitch

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  80. DJP6-25 (1,388 comments) says:

    Fletch 12:13 pm. Just the sort of thing you’d expect them to do.

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  81. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Craig Takes Aim at peters
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10440516/Craig-takes-aim-at-Peters

    where do we see the whole thing?

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  82. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Australia vs NZ in house prices

    We hear all too often that NZ house prices are amongst the most expensive in the world – they are certainly expensive but then you see this data from Australia.

    The latest data shows there are now 417 suburbs in Australia with a median price of over A$1 million. In NZ the last set of data from this time last year said we had 17 suburbs with a median over $1m.

    Then you look at their top 25 suburbs by price and there are 14 suburbs were there is a median of over A$3m – in NZ we don’t have any over $3m – we have one which is around $2m which would place it just inside the top 50 suburbs in Australia.
    http://www.smartcompany.com.au/finance/investment/43416-australia-s-top-25-most-expensive-suburbs-rp-data.html#

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  83. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Just how unique is the NZ Property Market?

    We are all too accustomed to articles stating that NZ house prices are “amongst the highest in the world” / “over-valued as compared to rents” / “driven up by tax advantages” / “being inflated by overseas buyers”

    It is worth remembering that the UK has capital gains tax, inheritance tax as well as stamp duty – none of which seem to have either depressed that market nor preferenced the NZ market by comparison.

    http://properazzi.co.nz/insights/

    Interesting graphs comparing Australia and england to NZ. You will be surprised how low our house prices are by comparison.

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  84. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    High Property Prices Drive New Zealand Immigration Debate WSJ

    It is difficult to know for sure how many nonresidents, including overseas investors, own property in New Zealand. Economists’ estimate the figure could be anywhere from 3% to 20% across the country.

    “Anecdotally, you would say they are the marginal buyer, but in terms of proving that, where the government falls down is in not actually having information to draw a policy conclusion from,” said Chris Green, head of research at brokerage First NZ Capital.

    http://online.wsj.com/articles/high-property-prices-drive-new-zealand-immigration-debate-1404366537

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  85. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird

    ….” If James Parker invites girls to sleep over how many parents would agree? Why did the parents agree for boys to sleep over with a man living by himself?”…..

    Probably their normal suspicions would have been allayed by the fact that he was a teacher & would have had background checks before being employed by the school…..not dissimilar to the abuse of boys by trusted Catholic priests. Paedophiles are first & foremost going to choose occupations & pastimes that put them in positions of trust & authority over their prey.

    Regrettably it seems that parents have to become much less trusting.

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  86. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird:

    I could find one [a scholarly article] but it would be a waste of time as I know I would not change yours or Judith’s minds

    I could quote you a number of posts here on KB where I have admitted an honest mistake. Try again.

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  87. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Election 2014
    Viewers judge TV3 to be winner in TV One leaders’ debate
    29/08/2014 at 3:28 pm
    Key says the poll shows that Labour is 4% worse than gouging your eyes out, while National is only 2% worse.

    Key says the poll shows that Labour is 4% worse than gouging your eyes out, while National is only 2% worse.

    A snap political poll taken after last night’s leader’s debate on TV One has revealed that most New Zealanders felt that, in the head-to-head contest between Prime Minister John Key and Labour leader David Cunliffe, TV3 emerged the victor.

    42% of respondents said that, after taking a careful look at both leaders, and then a different television channel, TV3 came across as the “most appealing choice.”

    http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/viewers-judge-tv3-to-be-winner-in-tv-one-leaders-debate/

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  88. Chuck Bird (4,895 comments) says:

    “Paedophiles are first & foremost going to choose occupations & pastimes that put them in positions of trust & authority over their prey.”

    @nasska

    I totally agree with your point above. However, that still does not address my question which was is James Parker invited girls to sleep over how many parents would agree? The would not cared now many background checks he had. Why did they allow their sons to sleep over? Was a part of the reason for fear of offending the manipulating homosexual paedophile?

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  89. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Chuck

    …” Was a part of the reason for fear of offending the manipulating homosexual paedophile?”….

    We’ll probably never know. Most parents make decisions like where a kid goes & who he/she associates with quickly, often relying on a gut feeling. By describing him as manipulative you’ve hit the nail on the head…..he had the ability to charm the kids & their parents.

    But I agree that parents tend to be more protective of girls than boys probably because they see potential dangers through their own heterosexual, non paedophiliac eyes.

    Few parents I know would hesitate to offend anyone if they thought that their child’s safety was at risk.

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  90. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    For Queen Sarah’s tea bagger pageboys and ladies in waiting ,

    Peddling Palin’s Snake Oil: More Duplicity and Deception from the Last Frontier,

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-dunn/peddling-palins-snake-oil_b_5429754.html

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  91. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Dennis Horne (2,198 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 10:38 am

    The reason a paedophile is attracted to the immature form, is not to do with any physical sexuality.

    I’ve tried to explain it on here before but it is complicated. But I’ll try again.

    In the sex offenders unit at one of our prisons there is a machine called a pleslimograph. It measures sexual response.
    The offender is presented with a number of things to try and establish what it is that causes sexual arousal.

    With paedophiles it was found that it is not the physical attributes (therefore not the sexuality of the child) that excites them, but rather other things that stimulate.

    One of the more common themes that arose was bath time cues – but not the nakedness – instead it was the smells ( e.g. a particular baby powder) or a particular sound, or behaviour that caused the arousal. Further investigation found that somehow between childhood and becoming adults, these paedophiles had muddled up the feelings associated with their own childhood experiences of bath time, and it had become a means of sexual stimulation to them as adults. The theory was that as children, bath time is often a close time between parent and child. The mother (or father) will often give undivided attention to the infant, playing with them, perhaps blowing raspberries on the backs, and giving them lots of closeness and cuddles etc. Within the subconscious the message is retained regarding the smells, sounds etc which is associate with , and translated as pleasure.

    Later in life, when placed in the same situation with a young child freshly clean, perhaps smelling of the same talcum powder or whatever, that pleasure response is activated, but somehow becomes faulty, and is activated as sexual pleasure.

    This is why children being molested during or after bathing is one of the more common situations of abuse – it is not because of the nakedness, but instead the deep rooted faulty memories of pleasure – according to the theory.

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  92. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    Here’s one for you stephie –

    http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/obama-kerry-clinton-and-u-n-secretary-general-sued-for-ra

    Obama, Kerry and Clinton being sued for money laundering & racketeering, providing material support to Hamas.

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  93. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Judith:

    With paedophiles it was found that it is not the physical attributes (therefore not the sexuality of the child) that excites them, but rather other things that stimulate.

    This isn’t my area of expertise, clearly, but the stimulants you mention (baby powder etc) don’t seem to account for the situation where a paedophile actively seeks out, and then grooms, a prospective victim. I’m thinking here of a paedophile who makes a targeted approach rather than taking advantage of an opportunity presented.

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  94. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nostradamus (3,120 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    Yep, a different situation, although the initial attraction could have arisen during something similar to what I just mentioned. Something about the child, perhaps their giggle, or way they spoke or whatever, set off this ‘faulty response’ (for want of a better description). The paedophile, then attempts to get close to the child, as you say grooming them. Many paedophiles say that they never intended for the relationship to become sexual, but just that something about that particular child made them feel ‘happy’.

    Of course then there are those who seek out child photos etc because they are turned on by looking at a young child – clearly their intentions are always sexual from the beginning. Strangely enough even those types will say things like it was the child’s eyes or crooked smile or whatever, that turned them on.

    Pretty hard to understand for the ‘normal’ person – damned if I understand it fully – but the brain is complicated thing, and obviously prone to being faulty!

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  95. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    Here’s one for you stephie –

    Larry Klayman huh….

    http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012/09/bradlee_deans_attorney_larry_klayman_allegedly_sexually_abused_his_own_children.php

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  96. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Judith

    Interesting theories but what of those attracted to kids who are post puberty?

    Are the motivations different?

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  97. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    I watched the Nation (f***ed if I know why, must be a gluten for punishment) this morning and I felt like smashing Paddy Gower in the chops over his interview with Nick Smith And Phil Twatford. If you want to see a biased interview then watch this one. Paddy continually interrupted when Nick was giving answers and I can’t recall one instance where he interrupted Twatford’s answers.
    Then to top it off, Gower asked Nick a question then cut him off midstream and went to a break. Gower didn’t even have the decency to let Smith finish when the ad break was over. Gower is just another leftie journo C***.

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  98. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Judith. No, it’s not complicated. Paedophiles are (mainly) men who are either sexually attracted to or have sex with children preferentially. The triggers for arousal alter that not one iota.

    Paedophilia is a failure to develop to sexual maturity. So is homosexuality.

    I would say the underlying difficulty paedophiles have is an inability to relate to adults in a sexual way. Founded in a fear to initiate sex with adults, especially women but also men.

    Once again you show your inability to see the obvious. You see the pieces of the jigsaw but you assemble them in your own idiosyncratic way. Nothing fits freely but some pieces almost fit. So if you ignore the small bits of the pieces that don’t fit, you know, those little bits that need to click in, you can get a picture but it’s the wrong picture.

    I actually saw a woman once doing a jigsaw once. She had a pair of scissors to cut those annoying little tongues off.

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  99. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Dennis Horne (2,199 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 4:35 pm

    But Paedophiles also target females, in fact their female victims out number their male victims – homosexuals are attracted to the same sex. Many paedophiles have both female and male victims.

    If you are trying to put together a jigsaw – you have some pieces missing if you do not include the most regular paedophilia behaviour, that of male/female and you will never get the complete picture unless you consider all parts. Therefore there has to be more to the ‘sickness’.

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  100. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,884 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 4:07 pm

    If they are post puberty, they are technically no longer ‘kids’ and are sexual beings, but not in law. That is they have the physical attributes that allow them to be sexual. Even though society has decided that despite a person being unsuitable to have sex post puberty, the body and the mind often are different!

    A male attracted to a post-pubescent male, is a homosexual. A female to a female is a lesbian – it is only our laws that (rightly so) make it illegal, and make it abuse. And that is right, because it is an abuse of trust, that targets vulnerability. Centuries ago there was no age limit – it was accepted that if a person was physically mature, they could have sex. But historically these people would also be working and living the life of an adult,and were arguably more mature than today’s child. Not all that long ago, unless the family was wealthy, children didn’t even have a childhood. As soon as they were able to, they were put to work – expected to contribute to the family’s living.

    Today they are not. They are emotionally immature in comparison, and therefore more prone to exploitation, so we have rules to prevent that from happening.

    So yes, their motivations are different – purely sexual in nature and they would recognise that immediately. However, there are some blurred lines, a child still developing, the extremely immature post-pubescent child and so on.

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  101. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    @ Nasska

    “Interesting theories but what of those attracted to kids who are post puberty? Are the motivations different?”

    Not really. The same process Judith describes above with bath time occurs, just with different stimulants. The onset of puberty and the immediate years after is a powerfully formative time, with craploads of chemicals flooding the body. Some males for one reason or another get psychologically stuck at this sexual age, and the focus of their attention remains on girls of the same age.

    So while the guy may physically grow up, his sexuality and sexual focus never does, and he will often become highly focused on the kinds of clothing girls at that age wear, which, like the smell of baby powder, become triggers. School uniforms are one common example. The guy who may never touch a child or a post-pubescent teen but who likes his partner (or prostitutes) to wear schoolgirl uniforms is essentially operating from the same type of age-focused trigger that a pedophile is.

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  102. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    Cripes, that Crewe’s thread is till running strong. I wonder what the record is for thread length?

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  103. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    ShawnLH:

    The guy who may never touch a child or a post-pubescent teen but who likes his partner (or prostitutes) to wear schoolgirl uniforms is essentially operating from the same type of age-focused trigger that a pedophile is.

    Why do I get the feeling you’re holding something back from us? :)

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  104. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    Kimbo – “Further, if it is the State, why don’t we have an entity called Kiwi Super Market?”

    How did you get a copy of the Green Party’s secret manifesto? We’ll have to change the name now.

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  105. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “Why do I get the feeling you’re holding something back from us?”

    Heh, it’s those damn knee socks! ;)

    No, I was a volunteer counselor in the 90’s and did some once over lightly study of psychology issues, including the origin of paraphilias.

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  106. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    ShawnLH:

    Cripes, that Crewe’s thread is till running strong. I wonder what the record is for thread length?

    The Crewes thread has someway to go – the record Bain-related thread is here – 4919 comments!

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  107. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I confessed to both series of murders just to save electricity Nostradamus?

    Some folk are fucking dumb! :)

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  108. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    The guy who may never touch a child or a post-pubescent teen but who likes his partner (or prostitutes) to wear schoolgirl uniforms is essentially operating from the same type of age-focused trigger that a pedophile is.

    Opps…

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  109. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Have you put your foot in it Judith ? Myself and JB are interested !~

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  110. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Stigie:

    I think Johnboy is more interested in an answer to this unsolicited offer:

    Johnboy (15,554 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    If Judith needs someone to lick her pus I’m not doing much for the next three weeks! :)

    Johnboy was uncharacteristically vague about which Judith he was referring to!

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  111. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    She’s too much of a woman for just the one of us at once stigie! :)

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  112. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    As I age I find I become more and more characteristically vague Nostra! :)

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  113. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    How Cullen helped Cunliffe stare down Key

    He spent much of his career taunting National’s front bench, famously dismissing John Key as a “rich prick” and developing a reputation as the sharpest politician of his generation.

    So Sir Michael Cullen can scarcely have imagined he would later play the role of Key, charged with winding up and unsettling Labour’s leader in a hostile debate.

    While critics are split on the outcome of Thursday night’s TVNZ leaders’ debate, most seemed surprised at how polished David Cunliffe was.

    This was no accident. Labour viewed the importance of the first televised debate as second only to election day. It had half a million viewers, most seeing Cunliffe on an equal footing with the prime minister for the first time.

    Believing this could provide a circuit breaker for Cunliffe, Labour has prepared for months. This included a series of mock debates, with political strategist Rob Salmond playing moderator.

    Cullen, who did not return calls yesterday, may face questions of neutrality on account of his role as chairman of state-owned NZ Post, a role which earns him more than $110,000 a year.

    A spokeswoman for State-Owned Enterprises Minister Tony Ryall said the minister was not told of Cullen’s involvement, but he wouldn’t have expected to.

    The Crown handbook for state-owned enterprises makes it clear that directors needed to be mindful of political conduct, especially during campaign periods.

    Interesting…

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  114. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stigie (986 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    Sorry, was busy getting rid of some old clothes out of the wardrobe! :-(

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  115. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Don’t worry too much about it JB…..we’re born naked, cold & hungry & it’s all downhill from there. :)

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  116. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Some might say she is pretty fussy is our Judith JB but im not in that group !~

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  117. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Fussy is as fussy does stigie. Sloppy seconds is fine by me.

    I’ll toss you who goes first! :)

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  118. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    No need to toss then JB if you arent fussy, me first, Nasska second and you last ?

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  119. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Seems fair stigie. A weapon the size of mine needs a well lubricated bore! :)

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  120. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gl0sdnoaxjy0zsk/Eke.jpg?dl=0

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  121. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Are all the natives in Wainui like you JB….gentle, kind, kinky and give the shirt off his back ?

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  122. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Thought you had a Fergie Nasska according to Reddy ?

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  123. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    We gave the Jubilee Cup to Milkeys mob stigie so it must be true! :)

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  124. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    That’s not Judith and her mum in the back of your Eke Corporate Cab is it nasska? :)

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  125. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Wainuiomata is a dank & dismal place stigie & many of the locals are, how shall we say it, a bit sus.

    Truckloads of sheep have vanished on moonless nights…..rumours of how they met their end are the stuff of snuff movies. :)

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  126. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    ….”Thought you had a Fergie Nasska according to Reddy”…..

    Times are hard stigie…..we make do with a second hand John Deere. :)

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  127. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Johnboy (15,561 comments) says:
    August 30th, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Fussy is as fussy does stigie. Sloppy seconds is fine by me.

    I’ll toss you who goes first! :)

    Seriously…You’re talking about roastbusting someone on Kiwiblog???

    Classy site you got here DPF !!!

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  128. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Big black mon are welcome to pop in BwaV! :)

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  129. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    We wanted you to feel at home Sootie. :)

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  130. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Time for dindins. Catch you later perhaps folks! :)

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  131. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Watching TVNZ news which has just done a broadcast from northern Syria.

    TVNZ calls ISIS “militants” while their piece relayed from the BBC calls them ‘fighters”.

    Why the hell do western MSM outlets not call them what they are “terrorists”?

    TVNZ has an editorial policy similar to that of Al Jazeera ,the Emir of Qatar who runs AJ also being a pay master of ISIS!

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  132. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Judith (8,402 comments) says: August 30th, 2014 at 4:46 pm

    But Paedophiles also target females, in fact their female victims out number their male victims – homosexuals are attracted to the same sex. Many paedophiles have both female and male victims.

    If you are trying to put together a jigsaw – you have some pieces missing if you do not include the most regular paedophilia behaviour, that of male/female and you will never get the complete picture unless you consider all parts. Therefore there has to be more to the ‘sickness’.

    If you’re trying to contradict me you’re not doing very well. I never said anything about a preference for males or females. But then you always try to sidetrack the argument, nitpick. Logic chopping.

    And NO again, paedophilia is not a difficult concept. What precisely causes paedophilia and homosexuality is an entirely different matter. It is complex, but reasonably easy to understand in general terms.

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  133. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    No, no, big black mon might outdo you JB…careful what you wish for ?

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  134. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Ughhh…Johnboy (15,564 comments) and nasska (10,889 comments)

    You two make me sick!

    No amount of smiley face bullshit can gloss over the fact that you really are vile, nasty, sick in the head fuckers.

    This site needs you two bottom feeders moderated the fuck outta here!!!

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  135. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Piles acting up again Sootie? :)

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  136. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    You need a good shag Sootie….but if the piles are acting up…..!

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  137. UrbanNeocolonialist (289 comments) says:

    How do you know you are not a paedo? Maybe you just haven’t met the right kid yet.

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  138. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Enjoy a bit of rape culture do you nasska ?

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  139. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    The only rape culture is on the left – @peace with his song about raping John Key’s daughter. Lovely. Just lovely.

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  140. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Black with a Vengeance:

    Classy site you got here DPF !!!

    And, of course, you’re the shining beacon of what’s “classy”, right?

    Oh hold on…

    Black with a Vengeance (1,646 comments) says:
    June 24th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Wimmin need to work like niggers eh boys ? then they might get paid more.

    Oh but hang on…niggers get paid even less and tend to be last pick in the employment stakes.

    Probably because they’re genetically dumber than your average whitey and inherently lazy too eh ?

    Sucks to be a dumb nigger woman then. Only job they’d be fit for is cleaning toilets. Isn’t that right lads ?

    Oh hold on…

    Black with a Vengeance (1,646 comments) says:
    April 4th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    You’re the fucking idiot if you think whitey has a monopoly on racism duggledog.

    Nothing principled about being racist regardless of your ethnicity.

    And yep, I didn’t get to where I am by being slow on the uptake. Even as a sperm I was wayyyy ahead of the pack!

    Oh hold on…

    Black with a Vengeance (1,645 comments) says:
    August 31st, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Amazing skill that you can type with his cock in your mouth cunningham!

    That’s just three random samples of your “classy” contributions to Kiwiblog!

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  141. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Nope…..don’t even believe such a culture exists Sootie. Read what I was commenting about.

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  142. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    So OneTrack…you think it’s cool for Johnboy to skite about gangbanging someone here and for the other lads to voice their support and chip in with some lively banter, as long as it’s follwed by a smilyface?

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  143. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    And nostradamus I take it you’re all for roastbusting as a well then ?

    Is that a righty of passage for joining the old boys club or something?.

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  144. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Oh i read what you were commenting about nasska.

    Egging John boy on with his gangbang fantasies.

    You’d be one of those cunts on the sidelines getting your jollies off just watching and trying to act out your mysoginist fantasies vicariously by suggesting things to do.

    Fuck you, you low life prick!

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  145. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Are you sitting comfortably, BWAV? Good, then let’s continue:

    Black with a Vengeance (1,649 comments) says:
    November 3rd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Lots of people like Key, think he is a capable leader, and you just hate it.

    In Hitler’s early days I’m sure most Germans thought the same of him and i don’t hate it that people think that. I’m just embarrassed that the average NZer is so gullible

    I’m afraid in the long run history won’t smile kindly on Key.

    [DPF: 20 demerits for Hitler comparison]

    How delightful.

    Black with a Vengeance (1,649 comments) says:
    November 3rd, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Oooh the smarm is strong with you Tom. I sense it oozing forth in copius amounts as you ponder Key’s next sideshow antics.

    Just hope you’re wearing a condom, wouldn’t want you to splaaart, damage your keyboard and spare us the joy of your razor sharp wit.

    I rest my case – you’re not classy at all!

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  146. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Shit Sootie, thats a hell of a thing to say about Nasska…can be fucking lonely where he lives but dont think he is like that at all !~

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  147. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    …”You’d be one of those cunts on the sidelines getting your jollies off just watching and trying to act out your mysoginist fantasies vicariously by suggesting things to do.”…..

    Telepathic analysis! What next? :)

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  148. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Speaking of telepathic, Nasska, can you sense D4J in the background?

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  149. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    I’m sensing something Nostra. :)

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  150. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    I rest my case – you’re not classy at all!

    Rest your case, you pompous twat ?

    I never fucking said i was classy. I’m strictly underclass and proud of it.

    But in highlighting some of my better posts from days gone by as some sort of defense of your mate Johnboy, you’re showing you are in support of his disgusting behaviour and attitudes toward gangbanging and the denigration of women.

    typical entitled patriarchal old right wing white man bullshit.

    You fucking disgust me also!!

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  151. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    BWAV:

    But in highlighting some of my better posts from days gone by as some sort of defense of your mate Johnboy, you’re showing you are in support of his disgusting behaviour and attitudes toward gangbanging and the denigration of women.

    You know, if you’re going to troll, at least try and be good at it!

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  152. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Meltdown cumming !!

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  153. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Stigie: Do you think he’s going to blow? Should we stand back?

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  154. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Dear Doctor BwaV,

    Thank you for your diagnoses. Is there a cure?

    (signed)

    Nostradamus, Johnboy & Nasska :)

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  155. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    FIGJAM !!!

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  156. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Just for you BWAV: click here.

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  157. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    “Thank you for your diagnoses. Is there a cure?”

    Yes Nasska, make hot lemon drink and hop into bed with a John Holmes movie !~

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  158. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    Did someone give bwav 3 beers?

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  159. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Stigie:

    From Wikipedia:

    John Curtis Holmes (August 8, 1944 – March 13, 1988) better known as John C. Holmes or Johnny Wadd (after the lead character in a series of related films), was one of the most prolific male pornographic film actors of all time, appearing in about 2250 adult loops and pornographic feature movies in the 1970s and 1980s.

    He was best known for his exceptionally large penis, which was heavily promoted as being the longest, thickest, and hardest in the porn industry, although no documented measurement of Holmes’ actual penis length has ever been confirmed.[1]

    Now, given his interest in matters big and small yesterday, that should get BWAV’s attention!

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  160. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    John Holmes also violently muttered a few people.. Died of aids before they got get him.

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  161. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Yes Nostra, he was a machine in his day, sadly in the last years of his life, lost all that big money he had made and of coarse contacted aids and died at a fairly young age !~

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  162. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Nostra

    At 7.26pm….”FIGJAM !!!”….

    Washed Out Brown with the Collywoddles might be gunning for an Oscar. :)

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  163. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Nasska:

    Johnboy knows someone who would be gunning for two Oscars – BWAV has competition!

    Edit: I wonder when D4J (instead of skulking in the dark shadows) will formally announce his appearance :)

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  164. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Even an honourable second would be an accomplishment to be proud of after facing that sort of competition Nostra. :)

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  165. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Dont think minus is out tonight, might be Dad ?

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  166. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Stigie:

    Just visualise someone sitting in their living room wearing only his underpants (which haven’t been changed or washed in over a week). The curtains are closed, as he doesn’t like contact with the “outside world” (too many feminazis). It’s pitch black. He sees the words “Big Bruv” on a Kiwiblog thread and, in a fit of instantaneous rage, STABS the thumbs-down button. The mouse breaks. He unplugs the mouse, and TRHOWS it at the dartboard with a picture of Helen Clark (which just happens to be next to a heart-shaped picture of Colin Craig).

    Does that sound about right? :)

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  167. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkkamw7z4iy3vkz/Wankstain%202.jpg?dl=0

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  168. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Nasska – you always bring the right drink for the right occasion!

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  169. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Shit, i thought you were talking about Reddy there for a moment Nostra !~

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  170. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Just taking stock:

    Thread title: Who killed the Crewes?
    Current number of comments: 1,126
    Current number of references to “Bain”: 885

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  171. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Just taking stock:

    You missed out the normalised count of galloping mentals Nosty.

    But maybe you were just being polite.

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  172. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    George Galloway has been smacked down in a UK street. Seems to be bitching about having a very sore jaw

    Would be a longline of people who would have been waiting for this to happen.

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  173. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Would be a longline of people who would have been waiting for this to happen.

    I’m picking though not as long as the line of people who’ve been waiting for this to happen to someone like say, Netanyahu, SR.

    But one assumes people like you would hallucinate that this mere suggestion would be… – gasp – anti-semitism – gasp……..

    All the while of course people like you ignoring what really happened to a fellow traveller.

    Your Israel-first hypocrisy knows no bounds SR. The fact you’re clearly blinded by it is an excuse – billions of Western fools are. But your continued obduracy in refusing to recognise it degrades your excuse on a daily basis. I don’t care, I’m not the judge. Just beware my friend, if someone as foolish as I notes it, others who really do count, have already done so as well.

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  174. Gulag1917 (930 comments) says:

    Henry Kissinger on the Assembly of a New World Order
    The concept that has underpinned the modern geopolitical era is in crisis
    http://m.asia.wsj.com/articles/henry-kissinger-on-the-assembly-of-a-new-world-order-1409328075?mobile=y

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