MH370

August 3rd, 2014 at 6:20 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah probably used Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 to commit mass murder/suicide, according to a book by two Waikato authors.

The captain of MH370 may have even glided the out-of-fuel aircraft to its final end in the southern Indian Ocean and sunk it intact, say Geoff Taylor and Ewan Wilson, authors of Goodnight Malaysian 370 – the truth behind the loss of Flight 370.

The authors suggest Zaharie, who prided himself on his technical expertise and methodical nature, may have got satisfaction out of making the Boeing 777 virtually impossible to find in what they described as “the ultimate post-mortem triumph”.

The book, released on Amazon Kindle on Monday and in hard copy on August 10, was written after extensive research in Malaysia and interviews with family members and friends.

Wilson, a pilot and former chief executive of two airlines, said the book analyses every possible scenario of what could have happened to the ill-fated airliner that left Kuala Lumpur for Beijing at 12.41am on March 8.

“We were able to completely rule out any possibility of catastrophic structural failure, rapid depressurisation, electrical failure, fire or being shot down as possible causes for MH370’s loss,” said Wilson, who also has transport air investigation qualifications.

“They simply couldn’t have happened. Through a process of elimination, we were left with the uncomfortable and very tragic likelihood that Zaharie – because of some personality disorder, depression or emotional breakdown – killed himself and everyone on the aircraft deliberately.”

I have no expertise in this area, but it seems pretty obvious that one of the pilots was responsible.

However Worldtruth.tv reckon they know what happened:

When it was first announced that flight MH-370 disappeared without a trace, there had been voices suggesting that the same plane will be later used in a false flag operation.

Personally, I tried to ignore the speculations thinking that no secret agency could ever conduct such an insanely-obvious operation, expecting that the rest of the world is stupid enough to buy it.

Boy, was I was wrong! …

If the US secret services got possession of the MH-370 jet, then it was a child’s play for them to set it up for a false flag operation suiting their needs. After the story of a passenger jet having been shot down by pro-Russian separatists broke loose, Russia lost a lot of credibility and support due to the US propaganda machine.

Conspiracy nutters are such fun.

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168 Responses to “MH370”

  1. Judith (8,526 comments) says:

    If the pilot/s were responsible, due to some form of mental degradation, and add to that the knowledge of the balloon pilot in the Wairarapa tragedy was a substance abuser, then what sort of reassurance do any of us have when taking to the skies?

    Whilst I’m not sure about ballooning, I always thought that airline pilots are closely monitored for signs of depression, mental illness, personality disorders etc but obviously that is wrong, going by these examples. One can just imagine the havoc that could be done should a psychopath gain a pilots licence.

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  2. mara (757 comments) says:

    Or an extremely political, Islamic pilot who is aggrieved?

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  3. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    I think the Airline knows more than they are letting on about this pilot and his religious beliefs…

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  4. Yogibear (359 comments) says:

    Judith – The answer to your question about confidence in taking to the skies is relative.

    Personally, I’d have a hell of alot more confidence in entrusting a pilot with my safety than the reliance on my wellbeing from the motorists that surround me when I get in my car

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  5. Yogibear (359 comments) says:

    ….and as for the book, last time NZ trusted anything to do with Ewan Wilson’s expertise in the airline industry, alot of people lost money, hard earned family holidays and jobs

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  6. Chuck Bird (4,818 comments) says:

    Does anyone know how many cases of strongly suspected case of murder/suicide of a commercial airline that the pilot was a Muslim? I seem to recall a couple>

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  7. Left Right and Centre (2,910 comments) says:

    Am I only the only one soaking in a vat of cynicism ? When these events happen it’s a race to crack out content and cash in before the next thing happens in this Bic Flic headspin msm whirl – no ?

    Oh yeah – it happened three months back and now there’s a book. Another thing that couldn’t drop out of the sky fast enough.

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  8. Vandalseed (2 comments) says:

    “Conspiracy nutters are such fun”

    Well, most of the time. Unfortunately sometimes they manage to inflict real damage. Just here in Hamilton we’ve had a minor measles outbreak (measles, in NZ, in the 21st century) thanks to anti-vax weirdos and we’ve had to fight to put fluoride back into our drinking water. The people who conducted a shock guerrilla campaign to take it out are the same people who believe in chemtrails.

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  9. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Best to get some sane comments in now before the usual suspects destroy this thread.

    I get your concern Judith, but while it’s a cliché, it is true that your far more at risk in a car than in an aircraft, and there are a lot more seriously depressed or otherwise psychologically impaired drivers on the road than there are pilots.

    Still, it’s a frightening thought. I find the idea of an accident more comforting than the idea that a pilot may just wig out and decide to ditch a plane.

    On the subject of conspiracies, a lot that happens in life is just shit happening. But shit happening is not sexy, and some folks, driven by their own psychological issues, need every major incident to be about some kind of conspiracy. Which is why, sadly, this thread will likely be useless for any rational discussion sooner or later today.

    The “Worldtruth” types strike me as vampires, feeding off the suffering and deaths of others, too afraid to confront their own psychological demons. It’s easier to howl at the moon and blame some conspiracy out there than look at the darkness within.

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  10. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I have no expertise in this area, but it seems pretty obvious that one of the pilots was responsible.

    How it is obvious that the BUAP wasn’t activated?

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22683

    Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot Buap, BUAP was installed on 777s and is being ignored-Why?

    Conspiracy nutters are such fun.

    Opinionated idiots are such a bore.

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  11. Scott Chris (6,006 comments) says:

    but it seems pretty obvious that one of the pilots was responsible.

    Pfft.

    So Wilson and Taylor think they know more than, say an qualified and experienced air accident investigator?

    Watch this if you want a more informed opinion:

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  12. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Well that didn’t take long.

    “Opinionated idiots are such a bore.”

    Yes, you certainly are.

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  13. itstricky (1,752 comments) says:

    I have no expertise in this area, but it seems pretty obvious that one of the pilots was responsible.
    Yeah.

    Let’s read that line again, shall we Scott.

    I have no expertise in this area, but it seems pretty obvious that one of the pilots was responsible.

    Just exactly how is it obvious to someone who has no experience in such matters?

    I’m not a plumber but it seems obvious to me that…

    Rubbish sentence DPF. Stick to politics.

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  14. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You still butthurt from having been shown that your Zionist state is a religious fraud, Shawn?

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  15. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    I actually won that debate hands down Ugly, but hey, whatever. You really need professional help. Bye.

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  16. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Still the same old liar, eh Shawn. But it’s off topic for this thread, I’ll follow up on today’s GD

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  17. eszett (2,387 comments) says:

    Not sure who’s worse, the consiracy theorists blaming this on the US or those trying to blame it on Islam/Muslims?

    As much as you can rightfully critises Islam for a lot of atrocious things in the world, blaming pilot suicide on it is just plaine nutty.

    Pilot suicide is very, very seldom, it more indicates the lack of proper screening processes and support measures of the airlines involved than anything else.

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  18. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “I’ll follow up on today’s GD”

    Don’t waste your time. Or mine.

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  19. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    Tragically laughable that Ugly Truth appears to be trying to stir up a ludicrously implausible Zionist Conspiracy with MH 370.

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  20. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    How do you get a Zionist conspiracy from BUAP activation, idiot boy?

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  21. Yoza (1,748 comments) says:

    I have no expertise in this area, but it seems pretty obvious that one of the pilots was responsible.

    How is it that ‘innocent until proven guilty’ can be sacrosanct one day yet, when convenient, can be casually dismissed?

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  22. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Because to many of the posters here, the state is “God”, and protects them from aircraft hijackings through regulation and international defence arrangements. Unexplained disappearances don’t fit into this paradigm very well.

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  23. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, try viewing the sane rational and sensible Horizan BBC documentary posted above as a preventive for your bizarre and screw ball Conpiracy theories that insult and assault the intelligence of all including those who lost their loved ones on MH 370.

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  24. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    In what way does the BBC documentary address the BUAP issue?

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  25. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    I should have made a bet with someone on how quickly this thread would turn to shit. Might have made some spending money. :)

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  26. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Looks like Shawn has switched from his “try to argue the point and fail” mode to “smear the opposition”.

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  27. Gulag1917 (849 comments) says:

    Malaysian Airlines are accident prone.

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  28. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    A hijacking isn’t an accident, it happens on purpose.

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  29. Rowan (2,065 comments) says:

    Great we have no idea what happened so these two idiots have published a book based on conspiracy theory!

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  30. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    We do have an idea what happened, a plane looking a lot like MH370 was seen approaching Diego Garcia. The timeframe would fit if MH370 flew low and slow rather than fly at normal altitude and cruising speed. DG was closed to visitors at that time IIRC.

    The special doppler radar evidence that was supposed to put MH370 south and far away from DG is wrong because it didn’t provide any new information to the investigators – you can get the doppler values simply by taking the differences of the signal transit times.

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  31. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    The Boeing uninterrupted auto pilot Flight system has been around for years.In fact it was invented in 1951, refined and installed on most modern Airlines.The BUAP has recently been a happy hunting ground for conspiracy theorists mingling myths and facts about it with their inane theories .
    .Its capabilities and what it can or not do are analyzed here including flight 370,

    http://www.reddit.com/r/MH370/comments/24or63/the_theory_of_boeings_uninterruptible_autopilot/

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  32. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    I assume the down tick is from Ugly Truth or his Conspiracy confederates .Let’s imagine for one moment that say the CIA and or the Mossad took over the 370 BUAP, where is the 777 precisely now.?
    BTW the current BUAP system was put out and installed by Boeing in 2006 as a means of thwarting hijackers.

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  33. Slipster (132 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, 8:51am: “Opinionated idiots are such a bore.”
    —-
    You poor thing, you must be bored stiff with yourself.
    No wonder you post all the cr@p you do.

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  34. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Massive irony alert! Ugly is; Opinionated. Certainly boring. Definitely an idiot! :)

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  35. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Crap like the fact that it isn’t obvious what happened to MH370, you mean, Slipster?

    If I’m such an idiot, Shawn, then why have you run away from the argument about the nature of Zionism?

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  36. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Because I have already won that debate, and because there is only so much time I feel like spending on a mentally deranged lunatic today.

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  37. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You’re such a liar. You parroted off some foolish doctrine implying Biblical inerrancy and then ignored the fact that the Bible has two contradictory descriptions of the fate of Judas.

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  38. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    So, can I get this conspiracy straight…the US intelligence agencies hijacked MH370 with its 300 passengers, and flew it “somewhere” for later use in a “false flag” operation…They then disposed of all the passengers, and somehow got another bunch of people to board that plane – rather than the right one – in Amsterdam. They had to have used the intending passengers on MH (the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur or wherever it was going) because inevitably dental records and DNA from the passengers killed in the Ukraine would be compared to the passengers who left Amsterdam.

    So, after somehow managing to switch planes in Amsterdam, dark forces within the US intelligence agencies then shot down the plane, killing another 300 odd people (plus the 300 killed when they took over MH370 and disposed of the first lot of passengers)..have I got that right?

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  39. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Educate yourself Ugly.

    The Death of Judas: A Contradiction between Matthew and Acts?

    http://www.tektonics.org/gk/judasdeath.php

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  40. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    That’s it in a nutshell David, emphasis on the word NUT.

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  41. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    D G , that would be a fair summation of where conspiracy theories take you.Another thing I have observed thet they often take something like the BUAP system claimed to be on 370 ( this has not been definitely established, I believe ) and dress it up in a lot of avionics technobabble to obsfucate and confuse..
    Thiere is nothing new about it and enables ground control to remote control the aircraft withIn some strict parameters and abilities .It’s installed on many Boeings, Airbusses and Sukhoi air craft.
    I understand it’s not correct to say that e.g ATC can simply take over the controls with a flick of a switch with the BUAP system.

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  42. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    So, can I get this conspiracy straight…

    Which one, the one that deals rationally with the evidence, or the irrational one which can easily be debunked?

    have I got that right?

    No, because the wreckage in the Ukraine wasn’t from a Boeing 777.

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  43. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Gotta love it when Ugly says things like “deals rationally.”

    Ugly’s version of reason is whatever irrational crap supports his delusional view of the world. :)

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  44. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, it would be helpful if you would souce the video. ?
    Paranormal or Paranoia Inc.?

    Possibly the long lost MH 370.?

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  45. MH (696 comments) says:

    the lack of chemtrails perplexes moi.

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  46. MH (696 comments) says:

    at least we know there are 2 people in Waikato capable of the written word, so it must be true. Never invade the Waikato in winter, another of life’s certainties to be avoided esp during Whitcoulls Book week..

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  47. lolitasbrother (615 comments) says:

    Have the aircraft manufacturers explained yet why the position of an aircraft can be seen at all times.
    And if not why not.
    As for MH17 above , people should read Russian embassy evidence, oh sorry I forgot ,
    President John K was killed by a lone assassin with a world war 2 Italian rifle

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  48. soundhill1 (157 comments) says:

    What was the source of Erebus flight co-ordinates?

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  49. wrightingright (148 comments) says:

    Why on earth would the US secret services steal an airplane when they could just BUY one????

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  50. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Ugly: I obviously didn’t quite get it right…so please do outline the theory for me..(there you are, no use of the “c’ adjective., so no pre-judging..) .Off you go Sir, the floor is yours….Perhaps you can begin with where the first missing MH went…and what happened to the people on it…

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  51. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    I think the flux capacitor just kicked in and these two aircraft were the ones that flew into the WTC! :)

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  52. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Shit Minus has popped forward in time to downtick me even before I’ve commented…Owesome! :)

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  53. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    I am just imagining a rather amusing scene at Amsterdam airport where not one but TWO planes are jostling for position, trying to get at gate 14…

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  54. hj (6,794 comments) says:

    I asked a Malaysian what people in Malaysia thought (pet theory). He was a bit defensive but he thought the “American FBI” would know. “why did they tell people to look in the Indian Ocean and then the Pacific”?

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  55. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Crew 1: “Get out the way! We have been chosen to crash in the Ukraine with the loss of all on board..”

    Crew 2: “Fuck off! this is OUR suicide mission…it’s MY passengers who are supposed to be found in pieces all over a field!”

    You can just imagine the Python team as the crews…

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  56. hj (6,794 comments) says:

    They don’t appear to have the ‘plane on satellite, but if you were to take a pee they would be sure to see you?

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  57. SGA (980 comments) says:

    wrightingright t 1:52 pm

    Why on earth would the US secret services steal an airplane when they could just BUY one????

    It’s no fun that way. Shoplifting, for example, isn’t limited to poor people, you know.

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  58. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Johnboy: the conspirators don’t seem to like either explaining how their theory would work OR being mocked!!

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  59. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Mock? …Me? Whatever gave you that idea? :)

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  60. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    I find it fascinating that the conspiracy theorists on KB insist that their theories just be taken as “facts” that are not in dispute (despite the giveaway in the term conspiracy THEORY). With Ugly in particular if you suggest his theories are just that, and in mos,t if not all cases, not terribly credible, he flies into a rage and starts throwing around personal abuse.

    I am convinced that there is a connection between the almost blind acceptance of these theories and poor mental and emotional health. Is there some attraction in these theories to people who are not well to begin with?

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  61. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    David,

    There are many different theories out there, the following is what I think is the most probable one.

    The theory is that the two “Iranians” were Mossad agents who were to carry out a hijacking in order to implicate Iran (i.e. the modus operandi was similar to the Lavon Affair). According to the theory the hijacking didn’t go to plan and the hijackers were locked out of the cockpit. The pilot then made a descending left turn to return to Indonesia. Soon after that the theoretical conspirators activated the BUAP and gained control of MH370. The plane then flew west, generally avoiding radar and populated areas, and also using the standard flight corridors, which would avoid attracting the attention of commercial traffic. In theory after clearing populated areas the 777 descended to low altitude and used the ground effect to save fuel and increase range. It was observed approaching Diego Garcia, where access had been restricted to keep unwanted witnesses away. Theoretically, once at DG the passengers and crew were unloaded and the 777 was refueled and flown out for destinations unknown. Fate of passengers unknown.

    The theoretical plan for MH380 was probably abandoned with the loss of the Iranian hijacking meme and the discovery of its twin in storage in Israel. MH17 was linked to MH380 by a photograph of a section of fuselage allegedly from the crash site at Donetsk, in which the window positions matched MH380, not MH17. Either the photo is a fake or the wreckage matching MH380 was dumped at Donetsk in order to encourage wild theories which would discredit the saner ones by association, eg the “no planes” theory of 9/11.

    The theoretical purpose of the MH17 hoax was to served as a distraction from the assault on Gaza which occurred at around the same time, and also to vilify Russia. This didn’t go so well when the BBC interviewed witnesses who said that MH17 was shot down by fighters. Russia claims possession of radar records which prove that other aircraft were accompanying the fake MH17. A german pilot also alleges entry and exit bullet holes in the wreckage at Donetsk.

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  62. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    he flies into a rage and starts throwing around personal abuse

    So, still no evidence to support your accusation that I hate Jews?

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  63. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    at least 65-70% of Jews are Zionists. You hate Zionists, ergo you hate most Jews. When you hate the majority of any group, you hate the group.

    The evidence is your own words.

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  64. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    That’s very interesting…but this “no planes” theory of 9/11 has caught my attention….was there some sort of mass hypnosis of all the hundreds of eye witnesses to the planes crashing into the towers, combined with an agreement with all the major news services to run some fake “green screen” footage?

    do tell…

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  65. SGA (980 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 3:48 pm

    at least 65-70% of Jews are Zionists. You hate Zionists, ergo you hate most Jews. When you hate the majority of any group, you hate the group.

    Sorry, I’m not sure that really follows.
    at least 65-70% of sports are ball sports. You hate ball sports, ergo you hate most sports. When you hate the majority of any group, you hate the group.
    I’m not sure that you could really say the person hated sports.

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  66. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The evidence is your own words.

    You haven’t quoted any words of mine which support your accusation.

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  67. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    was there some sort of mass hypnosis of all the hundreds of eye witnesses to the planes crashing into the towers, combined with an agreement with all the major news services to run some fake “green screen” footage?

    No, there wasn’t. The point of putting out theories like “no planes” is to discredit the saner theories. The same strategy apparently took place with Gaza, with the distribution of photos of fake carnage. The theoretical purpose is to set up talking points which discredit those who are opposing the conspiracy.

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  68. Ed Snack (1,824 comments) says:

    I know I spent a lot of time with the MH370 news as it broke and tried to provide a reasonably summary. I’m pretty much in agreement with what Taylor and Wilson are saying.

    Any other conclusion has to go into lala land with enormous conspiracies. The UT idea that MH370 could reach Diego Garcia by some “ground effect” is simply fantastical thinking; aircraft simply don’t get enough of a boost from this “ground effect” to counteract the thicker atmosphere unless they are very specifically designed to do so (I believe that the Soviets built a jet flying boat style machine with this in mind), but the 777 is designed for high level cruising for maximum range. Interesting to note that at 35,000 feet or so a jet actually gets worse fuel consumption than at near ground level because of the thinner atmosphere, but gains enough extra speed at height to more than compensate so they fly further. MH370 didn’t have the fuel no matter how you jigger it to reach DG.

    But I suppose if you postulate a big enough conspiracy the records could have been faked and it did have enough; or it was refuelled in the air (it was, you see, a special ops 777 with a hidden refuelling probe). All the passengers are either incarcerated somewhere special (maybe Guantanamo, in a super secret annexe) or they were executed/murdered which means it must be Mossad and the Jews because nobody else in this world could be so mercilessly cruel as to execute all those people but the Jews. And they’re in it with the US to fake the MH17 which was shot down by a special version of the iron dome missile. fired from Israel so it looked like it was aiming at a Hamas Katushka but really it went into stealth mode (special israeli/US joint research) and flew all the way to the Ukraine and intercepted MH17. Or did they simply send an undercover Iron Dome set to Ukraine because the stealth mode was a bit new and the range was doubtful.

    And Inmarsat was in on it too, and was persuaded to produce the fake “ping” data, and there’s a couple of moles in the Malay and Thai military radar personnel who were able too delay and fake the radar scans.

    Yep, I think we have a starter here for an entirely (in)credible book on this.

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  69. Ed Snack (1,824 comments) says:

    I like this “saner theories” idea. The US government (in league with the Jews, of course) deliberately killed over 3000 people in the centre of New York so they could blame it on Islamic terrorists. They did this by involving hundreds of people to lay explosives throughout the buildings, and also managed to get terrorists to fly planes into the buildings as well. Nobody involved in laying the explosives has ever spoken out about it…

    How could we possibly doubt such ideas, all based on the “fact” that burning jet fuel doesn’t melt steel and steel simply HAS to melt to cause a collapse…

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  70. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    UT: Help me out here…so “the truth” is that the CIA or some other organization within the American intelligence apparatus “did it”, but then also, as part of a dastardly cunning plan, put about theories including that no planes were involved in order to cover what they actually did because no-one would believe such nonsense?

    Is that roughly right??

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  71. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    The UT idea that MH370 could reach Diego Garcia by some “ground effect” is simply fantastical thinking; aircraft simply don’t get enough of a boost from this “ground effect” to counteract the thicker atmosphere unless they are very specifically designed to do so

    Wrong, WW2 pilots used the ground effect to get extra range when they were shot up and trying to get home.

    MH370 didn’t have the fuel no matter how you jigger it to reach DG.

    Wrong, straight line distance from KL to turnaround to DG is less than straight line distance from KL to Beijing. Also commercial airliners carry around 1-2 hours worth of extra fuel.

    And Inmarsat was in on it too, and was persuaded to produce the fake “ping” data

    … because you can’t get any more useful information from the doppler measurements than is already available from the ping delay times.

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  72. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (4,083 comments) says:
    August 3rd, 2014 at 4:22 pm
    The UT idea that MH370 could reach Diego Garcia by some “ground effect” is simply fantastical thinking; aircraft simply don’t get enough of a boost from this “ground effect” to counteract the thicker atmosphere unless they are very specifically designed to do so

    Wrong, WW2 pilots used the ground effect to get extra range.

    There is a huge difference between the wing design of a WW2 era piston engined aircraft and a modern jet powered airliner designed to cruise at 30,000+ feet
    Any comparison between the two is nonsensical

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  73. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT: Help me out here…so “the truth” is that the CIA or some other organization within the American intelligence apparatus “did it”, but then also, as part of a dastardly cunning plan, put about theories including that no planes were involved in order to cover what they actually did because no-one would believe such nonsense?

    No, the theory is that 9/11 was carried out by Israeli operatives who were not arrested and deported prior to 9/11. The FBI was certainly complicit in covering it up, Sibel Edmonds testimony clearly shows that proper procedures were not in place.

    The purpose of the “no planes” theory is like the purpose of the USAF dropping flares after the Phoenix lights incident. In the case of the Phoenix lights the relevant talking point was that the witnesses saw flares, not a huge craft that was a mile or two wide. It’s a case of setting up a straw man so that the gullible have an explanation for what happened.

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  74. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    There is a huge difference between the wing design of a WW2 era piston engined aircraft and a modern jet powered airliner designed to cruise at 30,000+ feet

    Sure, but they both operate by the same airfoil principle. Disrupt the vortices coming off the wingtips and you reduce drag and get more range.

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  75. G152 (258 comments) says:

    Wait until they find the aircraft before making comment.
    That way no-one will look stupid

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  76. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “That way no-one will look stupid”

    It’s a little late for Ugly on that front.

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  77. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Says the liar who can’t produce evidence to support his accusation.

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  78. freemark (552 comments) says:

    What is your profession or job or area of expertise UT?

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  79. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    They did this by involving hundreds of people to lay explosives throughout the buildings

    It doesn’t take hundreds of people to install micronukes, and engineers were seen in the towers in the weekend prior to 9/11.

    and also managed to get terrorists to fly planes into the buildings as well.

    The theory is that the planes were flown out or radar range and then BUAP controlled planes with the same transponder ID were flown into the twin towers.

    Nobody involved in laying the explosives has ever spoken out about it…

    Nobody involved in the Lavon Affair spoke about it – at least until they were caught out.

    How could we possibly doubt such ideas, all based on the “fact” that burning jet fuel doesn’t melt steel and steel simply HAS to melt to cause a collapse…

    The actual argument is that there wasn’t enough energy from conventional sources to produce molten steel, not that the steel structures had to melt in order for collapse to occur.

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  80. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What is your profession or job or area of expertise UT?

    Right now, being a general pain in the arse I expect.

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  81. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    UT: I think freemark’s question is a valid one…are you an engineer or an architect? A metallurgist perhaps?

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  82. Ed Snack (1,824 comments) says:

    I have to say that trying to put forward logical and consistent arguments is pointless when arguing with someone utterly delusional. Micronukes, remote controlled planes (and where are all the passengers, secretly murdered or what?), false flag US/Jewish operations to steal aircraft, it goes on. So many fake so called “facts” rolled out one after the other. And Lavon, an amateurish attempt that caused no casualties and was betrayed to the Egyptians anyway; it isn’t like an operation we’re just finding out about 60 years later, the Egyptians (who were targeted) for a start knew in 1954 ! Some secret conspiracy, which it seems had maybe a dozen people who were involved.

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  83. Odakyu-sen (552 comments) says:

    “Wrong, WW2 pilots used the ground effect to get extra range when they were shot up and trying to get home.”

    Ground effect doesn’t really come into play until you are…

    … wait for it

    …near the ground. (Like a couple of meters above it.)

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  84. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Quite right Odakyu-Sen.

    It was much different putting a Cessna (high wing) as opposed to a Piper (low wing) on the ground.

    Knowledgeable fuckwits ( as we constantly see displaying themselves on KB) wouldn’t know that of course! :)

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  85. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Most of the erudite folks that comment here wouldn’t even have a clue what spoilers are.

    They will try to pretend they are aviation experts of course! :)

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  86. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT: I think freemark’s question is a valid one…are you an engineer or an architect? A metallurgist perhaps?

    The question would be valid if I was expressing an opinion.
    Showing the truth doesn’t require any qualifications.

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  87. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    And if you asked any of them what the ceiling of a helicopter is if it is in or out of ground effect they wouldn’t bloody have a clue. But they are all know-alls…. on major plane crashes as we see! :)

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  88. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “UT: I think freemark’s question is a valid one…are you an engineer or an architect? A metallurgist perhaps?”

    No I would happily wager, and neither is he an aviation expert. His “facts” are all obtained from conspiracy web sites, the kind that also have articles about alien lizard people taking over the world.

    The truth is that he’s parroting what he reads (and uncritically swallows) from very shady and suspect sources.

    His 911 fantasy is ludicrous.

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  89. freemark (552 comments) says:

    Or VNE in a 206B…

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  90. SGA (980 comments) says:

    Johnboy at 6:18 pm

    Most of the erudite folks that comment here wouldn’t even have a clue what spoilers are.

    Pick me, Sir, pick me!
    It’s when you are reading a movie review to see if a movie is worth watching, and the stupid reviewer gives away an important feature of the plot.
    (To be more serious, “experts” abound on blogs)

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  91. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ground effect doesn’t really come into play until you are…

    … wait for it

    …near the ground. (Like a couple of meters above it.)

    Wrong.

    The Extent of Ground Effect

    … and reaches its free air value at a height above ground equivalent to the wing span of a fixed wing aircraft or the rotor diameter of a helicopter.

    http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Ground_Effect

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  92. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “The question would be valid if I was expressing an opinion.”

    You ARE expressing opinions. Daft ones, but opinions nevertheless.

    “Showing the truth doesn’t require any qualifications.”

    LOL!!! :) :) :) Riiiiiight!! :)

    It does when it involves highly technical engineering, chemical and metallurgical issues that you are not qualified to comment on.

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  93. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    If you’ve seen VNE on the ASI in any aircraft freemark I hope you reported it so that the next poor bastard that flew it didn’t die when the wings fell off.

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  94. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I have to say that trying to put forward logical and consistent arguments is pointless when arguing with someone utterly delusional.

    OK, can you identify any relevant delusion here?

    Micronukes,

    .. it’s also a fact that micro-nukes exist, and have since the 1950′s …
    http://www.intellihub.com/use-micro-nukes-takedown-wtc-complex-911-different-eyes/

    remote controlled planes

    There are FAA documents that prove that this is real:
    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22683

    false flag

    Operation Northwoods.
    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/northwoods.html

    US/Jewish operations to steal aircraft, it goes on.

    I never implied that Jews were involved, and I was talking about a theory.

    So many fake so called “facts” rolled out one after the other.

    Lets try that again, shall we?

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  95. freemark (552 comments) says:

    Johnboy (15,090 comments) says:
    August 3rd, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    Not quite..but we got to a very high rate of knots in a dive out the back of Meekatharra once..
    Not sure if that was connected with losing a tooth from one of the cogs in the transmission a couple of weeks later..East of Wiluna. The Pilot & Engineer went a bit white in the face when seeing what was stuck to the magnetic plug. But we swapped the trans out for a new one & kept on flying….:)

    UglyTruth (4,090 comments) says:
    August 3rd, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    Yeah, of course..a Triple 7 cruising along at 65M from the ground for many 1000’s of KM.

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  96. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You ARE expressing opinions.

    You’re lying again, Shawn.

    I’ve expressed some theory and some facts. I’ve endeavoured to explicitly state when I’m talking about a theory.

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  97. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Time for the Islamic asylum to close its doors. All crazy jihadists must check in now!

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  98. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Yeah, of course..a Triple 7 cruising along at 65M from the ground for many 1000′s of KM.

    Above the sea, not the ground. What is so difficult about flying in a straight line?

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  99. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Ah so you were talking shit freemark!

    That would be the Continental GTSIO-520. A few teeth off the cogs never made anything fall out of the sky much! :)

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  100. freemark (552 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (4,093 comments) says:
    August 3rd, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    I’ll correct..that’s a maximum of 65M, to even remotely possibly get the kind of range benefit you are talking about from ground effect I guess you’d be looking at 30m or less, at high speed.

    Comes back to my question about any expertise or experience you have in any field, because you need to show some kind of credibility – more than just reading or linking to websites full of theories from (to put it politely) eccentric internet warriors.

    Have you travelled or flown much, anywhere?

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  101. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    ““Showing the truth doesn’t require any qualifications.”

    “I’ve expressed some theory and some facts.”

    These two statements contradict each other. First it’s “the truth” then it’s “a theory” next it will be some other bullshit.

    Your the liar Uglynut. Your a fraud and a bullshit artist who lies to promote your sick hatred of Israel.

    Facts require knowledge of the relevant subject. You have none, just bullshit from conspiracy sites.

    When your called on this you change the meaning of words to suit yourself. In short, you lie.

    You have no credibility. Your sources have no credibility. You claim knowledge you do not have, in fields you know next to nothing about.

    Any moron can parrot crap from a web site.

    Claiming this is a valid approach is a lie.

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  102. Odakyu-sen (552 comments) says:

    Ground effect may indeed begin at an AGL = 1 wingspan, according to the textbooks, but in the real world it doesn’t really make itself useful (or a nuisance if your landing paddock is really short) until about a third to a half of that.

    Speaking from experience, my craft has a wingspan of 9.8 meters and I don’t really notice significant ground effect until I am 2-3 meters off the deck (with my landing gear down, ready to land).

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  103. freemark (552 comments) says:

    Johnboy (15,092 comments) says:
    August 3rd, 2014 at 6:54 pm

    Oh Johnboy, how could you say such a thing..

    Actually I’m talking about a Allison 250-C20B turboshaft powered aircraft, VNE of 130knots apparently (although I reckon we went faster)

    Retreating-rotor stall is the problem apparently – we tried to solve that by using the blades as axes to land or take off in tight, hot conditions…probably took a few inches off the diameter..

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  104. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Comes back to my question about any expertise or experience you have in any field, because you need to show some kind of credibility

    Really? Why do you think I need to do that?

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  105. Ed Snack (1,824 comments) says:

    Less the suggestion that “micronukes” exist, rather the doubt that such were used in the WTC. Nukes tend to have a rather noticeable isotopic signature, and even the smallest would leave enough evidence to make their use rather hard to conceal. Oh and yes, I’m sure you have some “unofficial evidence”, and lots of reports of radiation sickness and the rest.

    But, a waste of time trying to bring reason into it. Good luck with your world view.

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  106. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Speaking from experience, my craft has a wingspan of 9.8 meters and I don’t really notice significant ground effect until I am 2-3 meters off the deck
    (with my landing gear down, ready to land).

    Do you notice this effect as being like an air cushion?

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  107. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Jeeze that’s a worry freemark seeing as the 300hp Lycoming IO-540-ACA1A powered 206 has a max speed of 151 knots and a cruise of 142 knots. You must have been flying in a really slow turbine bastard. No wonder the cogs broke…..Wanker! :)

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  108. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    I’m not sure what it’s VNE would be but I’m fairly sure it would be a tad higher than 130kn! :)

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  109. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Really? Why do you think I need to do that?”

    When you strongly suggest that the real perpetrators of a crime (Islamic terrorists) are innocent, and you strongly suggest that the blame lies elsewhere (Israel and the US), you need to prove the credibility of your claims and sources.

    Otherwise it’s just lies and bullshit.

    Of course it IS all just lies and bullshit, which is why you refuse to say what your qualifications are.

    Did you take lessons in being a liar and a bullshit artist, or is just something that comes naturally?

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  110. freemark (552 comments) says:

    I’m guessing UT is an incredibly talented, qualified & experienced person. Degrees/Quals/experience in:
    1)metallurgy & structures
    2)ancient religions, history & geography
    3)aviation, avionics, aircraft technology & operations – probably 50000 hrs senior flying time on wide bodies as well.
    4)military hardware, modern weapons technology
    5)FBI, CIA, MI6, Mossad, GCSB..you name it..

    Unless of course all it has is a couple of average grades in stage 2 Sociology, an ADSL connection, a State funded income and a sticky keyboard…

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  111. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Less the suggestion that “micronukes” exist, rather the doubt that such were used in the WTC.

    Fair enough. It does explain where the energy came from to produce the molten steel, though.

    Nukes tend to have a rather noticeable isotopic signature, and even the smallest would leave enough evidence to make their use rather hard to conceal.

    Yes, there was a noticeable isotope signature in the water samples.

    Oh and yes, I’m sure you have some “unofficial evidence”, and lots of reports of radiation sickness and the rest.

    Yes, there was a high incidence of cancers for the first responders.

    But, a waste of time trying to bring reason into it.

    Not really. It’s the simplest explanation for the evidence, Occam’s Razor and all that.

    Good luck with your world view.

    Thanks for that, but luck isn’t something I’m short of right now.

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  112. Odakyu-sen (552 comments) says:

    It’s not exactly like an air cushion, but your rate of descent momentarily pauses while your forward momentum seems to continue. I bleed off the speed while I’m in ground effect. While I’m doing so (for maybe 3-4 seconds) my height above the ground will stay pretty much constant.

    Then, when I start to sink again, I know I’ve just dropped below trim speed, and my safe-landing window is on the threshold of opening.

    Then the fun begins.

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  113. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    When you strongly suggest that the real perpetrators of a crime (Islamic terrorists) are innocent, and you strongly suggest that the blame lies elsewhere (Israel and the US), you need to prove the credibility of your claims and sources.

    I don’t need to prove anything to you, liar.

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  114. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    You of course freemark are a Pilot. Aeronautical Engineer and Wanker.

    Not necessarily in that order! :)

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  115. freemark (552 comments) says:

    Johnboy (15,094 comments) says:
    August 3rd, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    Yeah, we could only get about 394 RPM out of the thing.. even when we had to mix a bit of diesel in with the kero..:)

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  116. BlairM (2,310 comments) says:

    I’m an Occam’s Razor kind of guy with this sort of thing. Conspiracies usually have a cast of thousands, all of whom miraculously keep schtum. No. Humans don’t work that way. If John Edwards couldn’t keep his penile adventures from public knowledge, despite every commiecrat journo giving him a free pass, then no real “conspiracy” of the modern age can stand. The real truth is that the lone gunman – in any situation – is what really happened.

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  117. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Jeeze BlairM you’re not going against standard KB belief that 911 wasn’t an CIA inside job then I hope? :)

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  118. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Ugly: I actually tried to give you the benefit of the doubt..

    “reporting truth”… FFS man, what do you think the earnest Jehovahs Witnesses think they are doing when they knock on your door? You wouldn’t be a fan of homeopathy as well would you?

    There’s a very old saying, I’m sure you’ve heard it “Better to keep silent and be thought a fool that to open your mouth and remove all doubt”…

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  119. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    You’re a wanker freemark. Your knowledge of aircraft is zilch. I suggest you add more diesel to your hand to enable the spurting of your stupid comments! :)

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  120. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    I see there are a couple of pilots here…I had a couple of lessons 100 years ago, but never more than some straight and level, slow turns etc. I think I did a supervised takeoff once…

    Am I right that when you are landing, what you are effectively doing is stalling the aircraft just above the ground??

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  121. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    If you get the stall warning buzzer just before the mainwheels kiss the ground you’ve done well David.

    All landings are semi controlled crashes.

    The old pilots saying is that if you can walk away from a landing it’s a good one and if the aircraft can be used again it’s a perfect one! :)

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  122. EAD (914 comments) says:

    I’ll still stand by my original comment:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/03/mh370_confirmed_crashed.html#comment-1295498

    “whilst I don’t think the US is involved, the most logical explanation is that it was shot down by an East Asian military plane (don’t know from which country) and this can’t be made public due to the international furore it would cause and if you’ve worked in East Asia, you will understand their culture of “saving face” and that governments will do all they can to bury this story and obfuscate on the truth. Does anyone really believe in this day and age you can just disappear a 300 tonne plane?”

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  123. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Blair M: Quite so…I find I simply cannot be in the same room as guys who are “the moon landings never happened” types…Even when you patiently explain how many THOUSANDS would have had to be in on it, and ALL of them kept schtum for 40 odd years…some of them still nod supposedly wisely and repeat their nonsense…

    The best response I have ever heard is from one Charlie Duke, an Apollo astronaut, and “Capcom” on Apollo 11…At the end of the doco “In the shadow of the moon” he says this in response to the naysayers: “We went to moon nine times….why the hell did we fake it nine times…if we faked it?”

    That’s game set and match for me…and I suggest for anyone who doesn’t have some sort of psychiatric disorder…

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  124. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I’m an Occam’s Razor kind of guy with this sort of thing. Conspiracies usually have a cast of thousands, all of whom miraculously keep schtum.

    Straw man. Conspiracies can be small or large, remain secret or be exposed.

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  125. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly: I actually tried to give you the benefit of the doubt..

    O.K. I actually tried to give you a concise summary of my argument.

    “reporting truth”… FFS man, what do you think the earnest Jehovahs Witnesses think they are doing when they knock on your door? You wouldn’t be a fan of homeopathy as well would you?

    What a JW tries to do any what actually happens aren’t necessarily the same. Religious belief and an argument that is supported by facts and reason are two different things.

    There’s a very old saying, I’m sure you’ve heard it “Better to keep silent and be thought a fool that to open your mouth and remove all doubt”…

    There’s another very old saying: if the watchman sees the enemy and does not raise the alarm then he will be held accountable for spilled blood.

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  126. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Oh dear me..You are a “watchman” for the western world then? Actually you’re an Islamist aren’t you… So you are a watchman for the Islamists? Credibility reducing exponentially…

    Do you think the CIA or at least the GCSB is watching you?

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  127. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    EAD, make an airline disappear inn this day and age.? Yes if you have a pilot of sufficient determination it is entirely possible.?

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  128. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Ugly: give me an example of a “small conspiracy”? One that immediately leaps to my mind is “the man who never was” In WW II…

    That was a pretty small conspiracy…but it still involved half a dozen Admiralty officers; Sir Bernard Spilsbury and his assistant; the Captain of the submarine that delivered “Major Martin…True, the guts of the story was revealed in the 50’s, but the fact that “Major Martin” was probably the victim of a submarine accident that was suppressed at the time, and not the body of a man who had died of pneumonia still came out eventually…

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  129. EAD (914 comments) says:

    Yes Stephie – someone knows where flight MH370 either landed or was shot down.

    Whilst being an unlikely ending, reading articles like the one below in the Daily Mail lends some credence to Ugly’s theory on Diego Garcia

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2686888/Secret-British-files-CIA-rendition-flights-accidentally-destroyed-Accusations-cover-minister-admits-documents-water-damaged.html

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  130. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth at 7.15 pm.Isotopes in the water supplies and increased cancers among first responders.?..

    Could we have an e.g epidemiological study of the alleged cancers that demonstrates this and can be independedly verified by a reputably by say the New England Journal of Medicine , the Lancet or Nature.
    Likewise with the New York water supplies.?

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  131. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    EAD: And what did “they” do with the passengers FFS? Murder all 300 of them?

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  132. EAD (914 comments) says:

    Yes DG,

    if it was shot down like I think it was then you could say “yes, they were murdered in a tragic accident”

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  133. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly: give me an example of a “small conspiracy”

    A pair of burglars hatch a plan to break into a store one dark night…

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  134. freemark (552 comments) says:

    Johnboy (15,100 comments) says:
    August 3rd, 2014 at 7:30 pm

    Fuck off Johnboy.
    I have given enough hints that I’m referring to a Bell 206 Turbine powered helicopter that you must be a bit thick ( or head up arse) to not see it.
    Which bits would you like me to clarify for you.. the diesel? We had to add that in extreme low fuel situations..perfectly safe at under 10%, but not ideal.
    FYI I spent about 1000 hrs in the air as crew in remote WA, we were looking for a diamond mine for DeBeers.
    Go back to your sheep (or Judith) shagging..

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  135. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    freemark: bit OTT old chap…do you and old JB have some sort of history??

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  136. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    EAD, please don’t get carried away with your Daily Mail.It’s as you say only a theory with little or no actual facts or evidence
    linking the island to MH 37O disappearance and the “alleged ” ” rendition ” prison.
    Rather like the 200 or so passengers and crew of 9/11 alleged to have been taken to Area 51 etc for their rendering.
    Quite bizarre really.!

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  137. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    stephie: Yes…I remember a mate of mine – sadly now dead – breathlessly showing me this DVD about “what really happened” on 9/11…I recall a shot of a 737 or similar aircraft parked…it was supposedly part of some plot by “them”…instead of crashing into the Pentagon (I think) it had been “taken”…I asked him what “they” did with the 200 or so passengers on board…which was a pretty fundamental question…he had no answer…so 200 or so people simply disappeared without a trace…none of their relatives asked where they went or what happened to them…

    I don’t think so…

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  138. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    So all your flying was as a passenger then freemark?

    Like I said the only hand on stick you’ve ever had is when you’re wanking! :)

    To an old fixed wing pilot like me this is a 206:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_206

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  139. All_on_Red (1,534 comments) says:

    Johnboy
    Nice truck but real flying is a C185. Even better is an old school Auster J1B

    Freemark
    I did a few hours in a 206. They can’t do 130 knts. More like 110 was the fast cruise speed

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  140. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Ah Johnboy…yes…I have been in light aircraft when you hear the stall warning just before it touches the ground…but some pilots seem to argue about landings being “controlled stalls”…odd,,,

    Just purely out of interest (I don’t have the spare money) how many hours does it take to get a PPL (if its still called that)?

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  141. freemark (552 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    If the occasional wank barred one from commenting here it would be a pretty lonely place.

    I spent a few hours on the duals, mainly flying out to drop off or pick up ships’ pilots to huge LNG Tankers off the coast – NW Shelf I recall it’s called. I’ve done little stick work on a fixed wing too, but I’ll bow to your superior experience & knowledge, I know it’s fairly straight forward until something goes wrong.

    You started with the abuse..I’ll always give it back in spades – but it was & should be that Ugly dickhead getting the shit here.

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  142. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I asked him what “they” did with the 200 or so passengers on board…which was a pretty fundamental question

    Another point to consider is that the two United Airlines planes, Flight 93 and Flight 175, were reported by news sources and by the Mayor of Cleveland as having landed in Cleveland, Ohio around 10:30 a.m. and were identified as such by United Airlines. To add to the growing threads of evidence, a search of federal records months after 9/11 found that Flights 93 and 175 remained listed in the FAA Aircraft Registry as operational aircraft under their original Boeing serial numbers and may still be flying under different N- numbers. Such discoveries support the theory that airliners did not crash at any of the four sites. No wreckage, luggage, personal belongings or bodies have ever been found at any of the sites.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/american-airlines-flight-77-the-key-to-the-9-11-enigma/10158

    This doesn’t mean that no planes crashed into the twin towers, only that it’s possible that they were swapped out for remotely piloted aircraft.

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  143. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Ugly: I have hitherto been very polite…but PFO…(an old law students acronym) you are a fucking idiot…

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  144. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    They are controlled stalls David. You fly down to the ground at about a 3degree angle and at the right height for the particular aircraft you cut the power and pull back gradually on the stick so it stalls onto the ground. If you get it right your passengers clap and stop shitting themselves! :)

    The real worry is when your looking out the side window of the aircraft at the runway due to a crosswind.

    That’s described as “character building” by flying instructors! :)

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  145. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Used to be 50 hours to get an unrestricted PPL in my day David. That was thirty odd years ago and I haven’t flown for over 20 years so it may have changed for all I know. John Banks still does it at 68 so it’s never too late if you can afford it! :)

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  146. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “I asked him what “they” did with the 200 or so passengers on board…which was a pretty fundamental question…he had no answer…so 200 or so people simply disappeared without a trace…none of their relatives asked where they went or what happened to them…

    I don’t think so…”

    Most conspiracy theories are riddled with holes like that David. At some point they almost always require a suspension of reason and commonsense, which is why I think there is some psychological issue at play.

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  147. All_on_Red (1,534 comments) says:

    DG
    About 40 hours in my day for fixed wing. 15 dual, 25 solo
    Rotary is a lot harder…and more expensive

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  148. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    JB; thanks…instinctively I always knew that…what is surprising is that flying instructors (some) don’t like the description of landings as “controlled stalls”…

    but you didn’t tell me how many hours (roughly) of instruction you need to get a PPL…

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  149. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Used to cost around $80 an hour solo and $110 dual in a C152 in those days plus other fees so you were looking at $7000 approx to get unrestricted PPL

    God knows what it would cost now, two or three times that I suspect.

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  150. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Semi controlled crashes is another name for landings DG! :)

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  151. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    50 hours is standard.

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  152. All_on_Red (1,534 comments) says:

    Just added up my old blue log book. 42, then converted to rotary 90 hours later. Can’t do that today, its done separately.

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  153. stephieboy (2,613 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, Flights 11, 175 ,77 and 93.did not crash into their targets.? More bollix from so called Global ” Research”
    Plenty evidence of both human remains ( 1,500 pieces ) with their identification ,aircraft components, passenger personal effects recovered at Shanksville for starters,

    https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/flight93page1

    Global research repeats an old canard that it was flight 93 that landard at Cleveland .In fact it was initially identified by media as such but actually was Delta Flight 1989 with a suspected / hijackers bomb on board.It was suggested by one Woody Box that Flight 93 had alll the 200 or so passengers and crew abroad.
    We await from him and Piilots for 9/11 truth the whereabouts and location of the missing 200..
    Thoughts where they might be .?

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  154. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Fuck me…I guess I will never be a pilot then…unless the Lotteries Commission finally comes to the party…

    I have a mate who I admire greatly…dyslexic, never got past the fourth form…doggedly studied privately until he could pass the theory for a PPL, and then got a helicopter licence as well…then he gave it all away after a couple of near misses in WA and now works in the mines over there…

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  155. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Jesus. Minus even down ticks me for being an information service!

    The bastards obsessed! :)

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  156. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    JB: surely you know not to worry about the downticks?? I get them for saying “it is a beautiful winter morning out here in the rural sector…the cows looking content…”

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  157. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    Yeah It’s Minus monster I think he’s a homo that want’s me to fuck his arse.

    If I knew who he was I would if I could find grandads old WW1 bayonet! :)

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  158. Johnboy (15,858 comments) says:

    So you did too David!! :)

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  159. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    there you go, look at that! At least three morons on here this late on a Sunday night…

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  160. David Garrett (6,900 comments) says:

    Let’s assume they are the same three…you have to wonder about the psyche of some joker sitting in his underpants in front of his computer…STABBING his disapproval whenever he sees even the name of some guy he HATES with a passion…I suppose we should be grateful that so few progress to be serial killers..

    Talking of which, where is Dr Judy?? (she’s almost certainly not a serial killer, but she is a good mate of one…)

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  161. V (704 comments) says:

    “I have no expertise in this area”. You can say that again.
    Stick to providing ratings of Koru club.

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  162. itstricky (1,752 comments) says:

    Talking of which, where is Dr Judy?? (she’s almost certainly not a serial killer, but she is a good mate of one…)

    Remember David, you (and everyone you speak for) don’t give a flying f* who she is (that’s a direct quote, apart for the flying bit which I added in to be topical ). Laughable.

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  163. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly: I have hitherto been very polite…but PFO…(an old law students acronym) you are a fucking idiot…

    I don’t serve a corrupt legal institution that lies about the common law, David.

    http://www.actsinjunction.info/

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  164. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “I don’t serve a corrupt legal institution that lies about the common law, David.”

    Neither does David, because your understanding of the law, like your understanding of the science around 911 and other issues, is just the ranting of an looney who has zero credible knowledge on any topic.

    David has a law degree. You only have the internet, you’re looney tunes conspiracy sites, and your mental disorder.

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  165. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You’re really into slander, aren’t you,Shawn?

    The corruption comes from the state’s secular description of the common law when the common law is inherently theistic.

    It is detailed here.

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  166. Recidivist_offender (27 comments) says:

    One thing is for sure, many tens of millions are being spent trying to locate the black boxes. Already i believe something like $65 million has been spent searching and $40 million compensation. Total waste of money. They should just stop looking.

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  167. Recidivist_offender (27 comments) says:

    Correction : $90 + $40 million.

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  168. soundhill1 (157 comments) says:

    http://911blogger.com/news/2011-02-03/technology-autopilot-override-pilot-control-boeing-aircraft-developed-circa-2001

    There’s been talk of a Boeing autopilot “going amuck” before and causing a plane to ascend.

    Do they really want to locate the black boxes?

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