More money for secondary teachers

August 22nd, 2014 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Primary school teachers and principals have voted overwhelmingly to reject the Government’s flagship education policy.

The union has announced that it will not engage in collective negotiations in an attempt to shape how the reform will take shape.

If Labour was offering to pay the best principals and teachers up to $50,000 a year more, you can bet the NZEI would have called it the best reforms ever.

Quite hilarious to have a union reject massive pay increases for their best teachers and principals.

But that’s fine. The Government should just work with the more rational secondary sector, and use the entire $360 million on higher pay levels for new secondary positions.

That could mean either twice as many positions can be created in the secondary sector, or they could double the extra salary allowances!

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42 Responses to “More money for secondary teachers”

  1. tvb (4,513 comments) says:

    The Primary Teachers are a branch of the Labour Party. The Government should write off Primary Education and place all its resources into the Secondary Sector.

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  2. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Primary teachers should never have had pay parity with secondary teachers either, they grossly overestimate their importance in the scheme of things.

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  3. hmmokrightitis (1,595 comments) says:

    Have a friend who is a primary teacher. She has put herself through the hoops for this, along with others at her school. And the union rep there has been talking it down the whole time, yet the vast majority of teachers AND the principal are supportive. Wonder if its like that across the country?

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  4. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    Well, they need to remember they are civil servants. They are to carry out the instructions of the government of the day. So what if they vote overwhelmingly against what the government wants them to do? They should be made to do it, by the democratically elected government, on behalf of the majority of New Zealanders who pay their salaries.

    End of discussion. They are as bad if not worse than some of the kids they teach! Anybody like myself who has kids at primary will tell you the whole mindset and focus is that nobody is better than anyone else and this clearly extends to the faculty. I quote: ‘Every child a star!’

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  5. publicwatchdog (2,822 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  6. Tarquin North (360 comments) says:

    Ever thought of paying your rates Penny? Now that’s what I would call a public service.

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  7. Slipster (183 comments) says:

    Then they must serve the public Penny, not their unionist ideology.

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  8. OneTrack (3,229 comments) says:

    “Ever heard of the ‘public service’ model?”

    Yes we have. And as duggledog says, public servant means implementing the decisions of the legally elected government. Not ignoring the kids and doing their best to help the Labour party attack the government.

    Lefties don’t seen to really get this “democracy” concept, do they. Anything for the cause and who cars what the voters chose. The lefties know best.

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  9. IGM (527 comments) says:

    Typical unionised losers . . . must protect the useless unemployable at the expense of highly qualified and proficient members who are outnumbered by leeches of the profession. Thank goodness for Charter Schools.

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  10. flipper (4,218 comments) says:

    “public servants” ???

    “Civil servants” ???

    Bullshit.

    They are state employees, appointed to advise (in some cases) and implement (in all cases) Government (That is the Executive) policies and decisions.

    Everything else is an attempt to usurp voters’ decisions at the ballot boxes.

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  11. NK (1,257 comments) says:

    Give the $360 million to parents by way of vouchers and let them spend it at the school of their choice. Then the wages of good teachers will automatically increase as they will be in demand.

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  12. IGM (527 comments) says:

    Why doesn’t that horrid old crow get back to The Standard where bludging left-wing leeches belong.

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  13. The only red for me is that of Manchester United (62 comments) says:

    School teachers, both primary and secondary are the sacred cows of New Zealand.

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  14. Harriet (5,132 comments) says:

    WTF is National doing?

    National doesn’t have to go through the teachers union to implement this – as the union is not the boards of trustees. They’re simply bloody employees. All National need say is “Your not the school boards!”

    Teachers shouldn’t be dealing with the government – they should be dealing with the school boards!

    What other union is national going to support next? The fucken railways?

    National is too much like Labour and the next 3yrs will remain the same – Left voters having a HUGE say in a National government.

    National’s mistake is that they ALWAYS give the left oxygen. Pathetic!

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  15. mikenmild (11,750 comments) says:

    I don’t think it is a good idea to divert the entire $360 million to the secondary sector. Is DPF suggesting the money be spent on secondary because it is there? That’s the kind of spending for its own sake he is quick to decry in other areas.

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  16. Rightandleft (670 comments) says:

    The NZEI haven’t learned from their mistakes. They refused to engage with National Standards and ended up having the system imposed on them in an unworkable form. Once again they’re refusing to go to the bargaining table, hoping that Labour will win the election. But if National wins they’ll be able to simply legislate to force their programme on NZEI and they probably won’t be as keen to give them any compromises after the way they’ve behaved.

    The differences between the way NZEI and PPTA have reacted shows that not all unions are the same, and they don’t always side with one party over another. Those on the right who lump all unions together are no better than the lefties who scream that all corporations are evil. Things are not so black and white.

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  17. trout (944 comments) says:

    C’mon MM – ever heard of irony.

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  18. artemisia (254 comments) says:

    Devolving the proposed $360 million away from the primary sector would be truly karmic. Perhaps it could be used in the secondary sector to work intensively with the ‘long tail’ failed by the primary sector. Or for additional resources in the ECE sector.

    Be careful what you wish for, NZEI.

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  19. Rich Prick (1,729 comments) says:

    ‘public service’

    Penny the clue you seek is in the second word. Service: to serve.

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  20. OneTrack (3,229 comments) says:

    “Primary school teachers and principals have voted overwhelmingly to reject the Government’s flagship education policy”

    I’ll believe that when the union provides a real secret ballot, so that union members can express their real opinion without the risk of being ostracised by their colleagues if they vote the “wrong” way.

    But I know the union apparatchiks won’t allow that of course.

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  21. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Good balanced journalism once again. I’m sure the overwhelming vote count result came straight from NZEI and every paper was too lazy to ring some local principals for their opinions

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  22. ross411 (880 comments) says:

    Rightandleft (651 comments) says:
    August 22nd, 2014 at 8:39 am
    The differences between the way NZEI and PPTA have reacted shows that not all unions are the same, and they don’t always side with one party over another. Those on the right who lump all unions together are no better than the lefties who scream that all corporations are evil. Things are not so black and white.

    For the most part, they do side with Labour though. Take the CTU, which is a hard-core Labour supporter, to the point where they run sham vote enrolment movements which route all enrolment papers through themselves. Given that unions hold a stake in the Labour party, this is misrepresentative and unethical.

    Corporations are of course inherently self-serving, just in a different way to unions.

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  23. macdee (43 comments) says:

    Good ideas artemisia, the other thing to do would be to free up secondary schools to offer Yr 7 & 8 education, quite a cunning plan in Chch to disestablish intermediates and establish Yr 7 to 13 schools

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  24. mikenmild (11,750 comments) says:

    How do you know it wasn’t a secret ballot, OneTrack?
    And you think NZEI is lying about the vote, Southern Raider?

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  25. doggone7 (827 comments) says:

    Rightandleft: “The NZEI haven’t learned from their mistakes. They refused to engage with National Standards and ended up having the system imposed on them in an unworkable form.”

    What is this “unworkable from”? If the NZEI had engaged about them, what form would they have been in?

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  26. virtualmark (1,539 comments) says:

    National Radio has just had one of the primary school principals on. Paraphrasing, her message was “not invented by us, so no go”. Had several arguments about how this National Party policy wouldn’t help “her children”. (As the parent of two primary school age kids I’m pretty clear that they’re my children, not the teacher’s children).

    They then followed straight on with one of the PPTA leads. Who simply gutted her arguments one by one.

    I say press on with this policy in the secondary schools, and give the secondary teachers & principals a bigger-than-proportional share of the $360m(?) set aside to fund this policy. Leave the primary school teachers can fester by themselves.

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  27. doggone7 (827 comments) says:

    OneTrack: “I’ll believe that when the union provides a real secret ballot, so that union members can express their real opinion without the risk of being ostracised by their colleagues if they vote the “wrong” way.’

    My off-sider works in a big workplace where a secret ballot was held. (No offence but largely middle aged-women, comfortably off, conservative, probably going to give National two ticks in a couple of weeks).

    Tell me how it wasn’t a “real secret ballot.” Tell me how many hours of discussions on how to most effectively use that large amount of your money being put in they were involved in on over a period. Tell me how you know the same process wasn’t followed up and down the country.

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  28. G152 (385 comments) says:

    How about going back to the uncorrected pay system for teachers who think themselves above their employers (us).
    The good ones get paid with the updated working system

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  29. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    Fuck it, leave the primary teachers out of it.

    If the members really do want it, then this (rightly) will only damage the Unions authority.

    You get the Union you deserve.

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  30. howitis (15 comments) says:

    Both Sir Kiwi Keith and my grandfather from the same era left school at 12. Both went on to be successful.
    Good education at primary school is imperative. You have the one teacher for the whole year. It is important they are good.
    One weak teacher out of 8 in secondary school will not set you back much.
    I think it is important to not ditch primary schools because the unions are recalcitrant.
    Primary is where kids learn maths English and socialisation skills for life.
    Make it happen.

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  31. Ross12 (1,456 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    The NZEI have always been bullies. My wife is an experienced primary school teacher. Even back in 80’s they were bullying teachers to join up. She was told if she did not join she’d lose her job. She told them where to stick their union and has never been a member.

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  32. MH (817 comments) says:

    sacred cows because there ain’t that many bulls plenty of frustrated heifers and the rest you can steer well clear of.

    primary schools are where it matters to get the basics right. None have come up with the solution to bring men back into the profession.

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  33. Mark (1,493 comments) says:

    Another Parata fuck-up. She has consistently refused to consult with the education sector and her portfolio has been.a.festering.sore.for national since she was appointed.

    My daughter was told twice a year since it’s inception she was a failure by her school because the ministry insisted they do that. Despite teachers trying to assure her she was making progress she became cynical and. Demoralized by the.process. Fantastic policy. It has taken a year at secondary school to restore her confidence and she can see she is doing very well and making great progress. A totally unnecessary process to tell children they are not good enough.

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  34. lastmanstanding (1,302 comments) says:

    The problem with the teachers and their union is that none of them have a customer focus. They have no concept of a customer. Their customer are first the parents ( or the PC word for parents this week) then the kids then we who pay their wages and lastly the Min of Education.

    But no they don’t have customers. Because its all about them selfish moronic bastards that they are. Self centred self interested and don’t care a stuff about anyone else.

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  35. Paulus (2,667 comments) says:

    Have talked to friendly Primary Teacher and she is under extreme pressure, like all the others in the school, to follow what the Head Teacher – a women, tells them.
    The Head appears to have the power of total dictatorship, including not only the fortunes of the teachers but their whole future as teachers. She just dictates to the Board what they are going to do and when.
    I suggested that that legislation should be introduced where by teachers could elect to pay their union fees directly to the union and not via the employer. Her comment was that the Head would soon know from the union who paid, and who did not.
    Do I get the feeling that the union is so powerful among older teachers still, as the average age appears to be 50+, and of course women in primary schools.

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  36. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    A totally unnecessary process to tell children they are not good enough.

    Then why did you or her teachers tell her she wasn’t good enough?

    I mean, Parata didn’t tell her, right?

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  37. Wally.Anchor (21 comments) says:

    It would make sense for the rejected payrises to be applied to the secondary school sector – as they are the ones mopping up the mess and doing their best to improve on the encouraged mediocracy of teaching in the primary school sector. Performance pay works. Everywhere. Reward the best, and the standard of the rest will increase.

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  38. kiwigunner (230 comments) says:

    Where to start with the misrepresentations here!
    The PPTA members have not accepted the govts proposal yet. To date only the PPTA Executive have signalled that they will work with the govt on it. LIke the NZEI the PPTA members will have to vote on a variation to their collective agreement – we will see then what the PPTA members think.

    Teachers are not public/civil servants but employees of their local Board of Trustees.

    The majority of teachers/principals do not support IEA as the vote clearly showed.

    The vote was by secret ballot. I am a Principal I do not know how my teachers voted (but clearly it is likely they were opposed.

    In this case the govt does have to negotiate as they are attempting to make an amendment to the collective agreements (they can legislate I guess but not until after the election)

    Ross12 you contradict yourself but it is of course illegal to sack someone for not being a member of a union. I have a teacher at my school who is not a union member, never been a problem for me.

    Paulus the NZEI for some time now have been running a campaign to get teachers/principals to pay their union fees direct to the union. Try and keep up with reality please.

    This whole post feels like something from Dirty Politics but maybe not more probably simply the biased leading the ignorant.

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  39. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Sack the lot of the bastards and allow them to re-apply for their jobs under a non-union proviso.

    The dumbest of them that rely on being in a union to get employment could fuck off elsewhere and that would create some space for all the bright young trainees that want to be teachers because they regard it as a privilege to teach our youngsters! :)

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  40. Rightandleft (670 comments) says:

    Kiwigunner,

    The NZEI members voted against the proposal because their leadership misled them. I’ve seen one video they put out for their members and it was full of misinformation. I would be quite surprised if PPTA members, who have been properly informed about what the programme really means, voted against it. Why would they refuse a programme their negotiators worked hard to craft, which increases collaboration and professional development and creates new career pathways just as the unions have been asking for, for years?

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  41. Ross12 (1,456 comments) says:

    Kiwigunner

    It might be illegal now but I’m referring to the 80’s ( I’m not sure what the legal status was then) . But it was a definite threat at the time and as my post was about NZEI bullying I stand by what I said. But at the time as it is now the Union can easily make it hard for someone to get another job ( as opposed to sacking)

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  42. artemisia (254 comments) says:

    The 20 minute Radio NZ interview on 22 August is enlightening. Lynda Stewart the Principal of May Road School in Auckland and NZEI National Executive and Tom Parsons, the President of the Secondary Principal’s Association were given time to present their positions.

    One was emotional waffle, one was measured and factual.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20146698

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