Sutch was a spy

August 11th, 2014 at 6:30 am by David Farrar

Phil Kitchin at the Dom Post reports:

Forty years after he was acquitted of spying, electrifying new evidence has emerged showing that top government official was a KGB recruit working under the codename “Maori”.

The Dominion Post has obtained copies of official KGB records that show Sutch was a 24-year veteran recruit of the feared Soviet spy agency when he was arrested while meeting a KGB agent at an Aro Valley park, in Wellington, in 1974.

I’m not surprised, but nice to finally have it proven.

But his daughter says the evidence does not match her father and maintains he was not involved with the Soviets.

Really?

The file with New Zealand material in it says the KGB recruited an “ex-high ranking official in state machinery” who was born in 1907, obtained a PhD and retired in 1965.

That profile is a perfect match to Sutch who was born in June 1907, held a PhD and retired as the head of the Department of Industries and Commerce in 1965.

The KGB thumbnail sketch says the agent was “recruited in 1950,” given the codename Maori and was “in contact with Drozhzhin”.

Sutch therefore appears to have been recruited in New York as he was secretary-general of New Zealand’s United Nations delegation there from 1947 to 1951.

At the time Sutch was working for  the Soviet Union, they were a totalitarian murdering regime that jailed and killed political dissidents. He was a horrible traitor.

I previously blogged:

However he was an apologist and supporter of a murdering Stalinist regime. That makes him a man of incredible flawed and warped judgement regardless of whether or not he was a spy.

The SIS files on him are worth a read. He once described himself as a “Stalinist” and opposed NZ entry into WWII (the speculation being because of the German- peace treaty) until the  became an ally.

Even after Stalin was denounced by Krushchev, Sutch defended Stalin’s actions on the grounds of economic necessity. He also disregarded instructions from the NZ Govt and voted in UN bodies with eastern bloc countries against his own Government’s wishes. He also thought the USSR invasion of Hungary was justified. …

So as I said, he may or may not have spied for the USSR. But he was a dedicated supporter of it and apologist for it. In my eyes that is like the difference between having worked for the Nazis, or defending what the Nazis did – neither are testaments of good character.

A very flawed man.

Tags:

83 Responses to “Sutch was a spy”

  1. Manolo (13,838 comments) says:

    In a few decades the same will be said of a Russel Norman, leader of the Green Party and fifth-columnist.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Brian Marshall (202 comments) says:

    The entire green and peace movements were started by communist money. Any close examination show how government control focused they are so you could be right Manolo.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    I was involved in the aftermath of that case, so I know more than a tad about it.
    Sutch was a guilty as hell.

    He was the most arrogant man in New Zealand….even after his demise.But his family, the Aro Valley mob, the student union apparatchiks could never seer that. Nor could the likes of Lewin and Datson his close buddies (disciples) at I &C.

    Sutch remains something of an icon with core Labour and other “socialists” such as Douglas (Ken) – his claimed “reform” not withstanding. Anderson was a believer until he entered his grave, and the nutty Locke family remained true believers, all.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “What we really wanted to know was what he’d done in the past. There was no desire to send him to prison. If he’d co-operated he would have got his knighthood and no-one would be any the wiser.”

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 17 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. tom hunter (4,895 comments) says:

    “What difference at this point does it make?”

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. IGM (423 comments) says:

    William Ball Sutch was, like some of the left-wing troublemakers today, protected by certain media hacks, who to this day, are still communists and treasonous unionists. “Truth” was ridiculed in those days for their editorial policy on this case . . . Russell Gault will be happy to hear of this report, even in the grave.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. thePeoplesFlag (247 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Unpopular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 41 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. EAD (1,128 comments) says:

    I find it curious how our media seeks to castigate and vilify people who can no longer defend themselves.

    Of relevance to modern times, I would like to know how much influence the UN has over current NZ politicians and what orders they are taking from them?

    Our MSM seem to be ignoring the fact that our government willingly subscribes to the UN. By so doing, they pay our tax money to the UN and sign treaties which obligate us, on pain of penalty, to comply with its diktats.

    Our Government has been very careful not to alert us to the fact that 80+% of the nonsensical laws and regulations which are daily being foisted upon us originate from this organisation.

    It’s time we kicked up a hell of a fuss.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. tvb (4,430 comments) says:

    It is a bit unusual for a spy to so publicly support the country that he was supposed to be spying for. Perhaps Sutch saw that as his main role after being recruited for the KGB. NZ does not have much of interest to the Soviets. BUT we were getting a lot of Americans intell through our Intelligence agreements but that has been scaled back. One cannot ignore the curious Jays case and Sutch and what Sutch was up to that night when he was arrested.. I believe Sutch was acting as a intermediary passing on material. But again this is not a very clever way of passing stuff on to the KGB. Sutch was being kept under fairly close watch by the SIS I assume.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    Ugly…

    Like most of your comments – uninformed. Just crap.

    We (Keith Holyoake, Bill Gilbert, and NZ as a whole) wanted the bastard in prison. Yes, we wanted to know what he had fed to the Kremlin (we were being urged to do so by both London and Washington), and there were suspicions that he had a hand in the (UK’s and US’s) Kroger case which had a significant Napier and New Zealand connection.

    But a Knighthood ??? Not before hell froze over. MI5 and the SIS (MI6 in UK) would have shot down any nomination by a (post Holyoake) Labour Government.

    The bastard was a traitor, and followed by that arch union criminal, Timothy Patrick Walsh.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 32 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. IGM (423 comments) says:

    flipper: Don’t like to be a know-all, but was it not Fintan Patrick Walsh of waterfront infamy, you refer to. He being a mentor of Kelly’s old man, Pat. They were all communist mongrels, not unlike the Green mob we have currently.

    Vote: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    What is the difference between a KGB agent and someone like professor Paul Spoonley who actively works to undermine Anglo Saxon Society (European New Zealanders) while palming himself off as a neutral researcher? Last night on TV1 item on the most common surnames in Auckland he claimed that more (of them will be coming and “we need those skills). Closer examination shows that is false (according to treasury; but he is the expert).

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Nostalgia-NZ (5,221 comments) says:

    How did he apparently operate so openly flipper, as tvb points out it’s difficult to reconcile a spy being so open with his or her views and not have every door or opportunity to gather information slammed shut on them.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Like most of your comments – uninformed. Just crap.

    It’s a quote from Phil Kitchin’s article, quoting the SIS.

    We (Keith Holyoake, Bill Gilbert, and NZ as a whole) wanted the bastard in prison.

    You don’t speak for NZ as a whole, flipper. Not then, and not now.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 21 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Traitors talking to KGB agents in Aro Valley parks?

    Sounds pretty fantastic, like something little leftie vic uni political science or thetre and film students would love to be true!

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    IGM…
    Quite correct. Thanks.

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Slipster (177 comments) says:

    United Nations – a festering sore long past its due date. Who’s surprised it’s a recruiting ground for spies, traitors and what not?

    But I am still puzzled about something: How could he vote against his government instructions and not be immediately recalled? After all, ambassadors, envoys and such both speak and vote on behalf of their governments. At the end of the day, they are just the government mouthpiece. If that mouthpiece begins to stutter or turns delirious – surely it must be fixed. Surgically if necessary.

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    Voting with the Soviets at the UN against his govt’s intstructions……….hmmmmm.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Andrei (2,664 comments) says:

    LOL this happened before most New Zealanders now alive were born

    Anyway the Queen Mother’s cousin who hob nobbed with the Royal Family was a spy one Sir Anthony Blunt

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. stephieboy (3,167 comments) says:

    Manolo, oh dear our antique reds under the bed vintage .Next you will be accusing, Uncle Joe style, the NZ Film Industry and !N Z Horticultural Society of communist infiltration !.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Could explain why his knighthood would not have been in jeopardy if he had cooperated, Andrei

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. stephieboy (3,167 comments) says:

    Kowtow and Manolo a paid up members of our local branch of the John Birch society.?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Odakyu-sen (678 comments) says:

    I look forward to an short article about this revelation to appear somewhere in the NZ Herald this weekend…

    …not holding my breath.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I was interested in flipper’s claim that MI5 could somehow have intervened to prevent a knighthood. Absolute fantasy.

    It always seemed more likely than not the Sutch had no innocent explanation for meeting with KGB agents. Now he joins the short list of New Zealanders confirmed as Soviet spies.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Slipster (177 comments) says:

    Ugly…: “You don’t speak for NZ as a whole [...]”
    —-
    Ever think of that point when you try to do that?
    Remember all your “we [want/don't want something or other]“, “OUR farmland”, ” OUR assets”.

    Nope, you are not “the people”, you don’t speak for them(us) and you certainly don’t own either the farmlands or the assets.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Andrei (2,664 comments) says:

    Ugly my friend his knighthood and reputation was safe for years after the powers that be identified him – it took an impertanant
    News paper story in the 1980s where he wasn’t named but was identifiable by the details before the public knew

    Then in the hue and cry that followed Margaret Thatcher let slip his name in Parliament – at that point the knighthood was a gona

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Remember all your “we [want/don't want something or other]“, “OUR farmland”, ” OUR assets”.

    No, actually I don’t. I think you may have confused me with someone else, Slipster.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. ShawnLH (5,286 comments) says:

    Stephie, in this case the Red really was under the bed, that’s kinda the point, so not sure why your attacking people.

    After the fall of the Soviet Union for a while the US govt had unprecedented access to KGB files. It turns out the people like Joe McCarthy were right. His methods were wrong of course, but not his concerns.

    “The opening of the KGB archives and the release of the VENONA intercepts (decoded Soviet KGB and GRU traffic) proved that in the 1950’s Senator Joseph McCarthy was absolutely right about the extensive Soviet penetration of the U.S. government in all the most sensitive sections and its danger to America. According to the KGB archives, the NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941 and the Soviet military GRU probably had a like number. He was proved right that the Communist Party, U.S.A., was an arm of the Soviet intelligence apparatus and the Soviet Union considered the U.S. as their “main enemy”.”

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/KGB%20Exonerates%20McCarthyism.html

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    Nos….

    The matters apparently related more to when he was a close adviser to Fraser and Nash – pre and post WW2..
    But there were also post Labour problems, and that was when he was put under the microscope….. with a leash designed to bag him. It didn’t work out, but eventually there was so much “smoke” that Bill Gilbert got Kiwi Keith’s consent to arrest and prosecute. The arrest was a cock up (forget names of the now deceased Police officers (As U know SIS does not have powers of arrest)

    Sutch had an air of seigniorial superiority that would amaze. He used that to march, unchallenged, where others feared to tread. He was ferocious in defence of his position within the bureaucracy and Government. It took Brig Gilbert quite some time, and the advent of Holyoake, to get consent. (Situation generalised for obvious reasons.)

    Sutch was suspected to have facilitated certain acquisitions from an official New Zealand agency in Napier that had a major bearing on the Kroger case, and their passport shenanigans. Cheers Nos…. F

    RRM…
    It was Kelburn, Salamanca from memory NO?
    There were also pies and Playboy mags No? But all that is a diversion from Sutch.
    And …. the Aro Valley left wing mob go back a long, long way.

    Ugly…..

    Not New Zealand? Well there were the paid students at Red Spark… at Salient and The Peoples Voice… some academics…. and the trade unions…. all opposed to the prosecution of their idol. So to that extent, yes, not all NZ. Sorry, missed U.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    According to the KGB archives, the NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941 and the Soviet military GRU probably had a like number. He was proved right that the Communist Party, U.S.A., was an arm of the Soviet intelligence apparatus and the Soviet Union considered the U.S. as their “main enemy”.

    By June 1945 some in the US intelligence community were actively aiding hard core Nazis in getting into the US intelligence apparatus and on its payroll. This is no minor matter, for later these same hard core Nazis would reach the top level of the US intelligence community, providing a complete distortion of information that would make its way to the president and others at the top level of the US executive. When this happened the president and others at his level wouldn’t in the least have any way to know that they were getting “information” from those with such fanatical Nazi ideology. Predictably such “information” would be that the USA and the rest of the West faced a “terrible threat” from Moscow’s “terrible Communists,” the same ones who had been such crucial allies for the Western powers fighting the Nazis.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-end-of-world-war-ii-did-not-lead-to-a-lasting-peace-operation-sunrise-and-the-onslaught-of-the-cold-war/20636

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    mikenmild (10,957 comments) says:

    August 11th, 2014 at 8:07 am

    I was interested in flipper’s claim that MI5 could somehow have intervened to prevent a knighthood. Absolute fantasy
    ****

    Get your time frame into focus milky.

    Would have been a certainty. B Palace would have been advised by MI5 to raise a query with Wellington where the hint would have been taken. If not, it would never have passed the royal bureaucracy.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. Steve Wrathall (284 comments) says:

    What? You mean Sutch wasn’t meeting Soviet embassy officials in the back streets of Wellington to swap borsht recipes?

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. G152 (350 comments) says:

    Common knowledge at the time.
    Media didn’t report it and I have my suspicions as to why.
    No doubt some-one will start releasing the embargoed news items now ?

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Odakyu-sen (678 comments) says:

    Whenever I read that something (or someone) has a name that begins with “The People’s …,” alarm bells start to ring.

    In almost all cases, a more accurate title can be obtained by substituting “Party” for “People.”

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Crusader (317 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (4,301 comments) says:
    August 11th, 2014 at 8:32 am

    By June 1945 some in the US intelligence community were actively aiding hard core Nazis in getting into the US intelligence apparatus and on its payroll. This is no minor matter, for later these same hard core Nazis would reach the top level of the US intelligence community, providing a complete distortion of information that would make its way to the president and others at the top level of the US executive.

    Many Germans were recruited by the USA from the intelligence and scientific community. And many by the USSR (willingly or forcibly). Few of them would have been “fanatical” believers in National Socialism. Most prepared to work for any regime that did not execute them, even the despicable regime that ruled the USSR with a grip of iron, and maintained a vast chain of concentration camps long into the 1950s.

    Pop quiz: name the biggest concentration camp in Europe during WW2. (Hint, it wasn’t the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex)

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Maggy Wassilieff (409 comments) says:

    @ Flipper
    Not Kelburn…

    Meeting in the public dunnies on Aro St just down from Holloway Road.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I don’t really believe, flipper, that MI5 would have been vetting royal honours nominations from NZ. Of course you have no evidence of this. I’m also interested in your other assertion, again for which you provide no evidence, that Sutch had something to do with the Kroger case.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. ross411 (842 comments) says:

    Yes, horrible traitor. How is our association with the Americans, with military bases, any different? Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib. Political dissent these days is looking like a towelhead.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    This is certainly most interesting for anyone alive and politically aware at the time…

    But I am also puzzled how he could have got away with voting against political instructions at the UN…as others have said, surely he would have been instantly recalled if he had done that? Some erudite and well informed chap here will no doubt know…

    Sutch was represented at his trial by Mike Bungay, who at that time was little known – Sutch’s case instantly shot Bungay to prominence since it was assumed by everyone that Sutch would be found guilty…

    There would seem to be only be two reasons Sutch would meet Rasgoverov in a toilet in Aro Street on a freezing winters night.. Sutch was apparently not a homosexual…and Rasgoverov was certainly no ballet dancer from the Bolshoi…

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    There was no tangible evidence DG, so just meeting the Russian in suspicious circumstances wasn’t enough (except in the court of public opinion).
    And I wasn’t aware that Sutch ever held a NZ representative position at the UN, so I’m not sure he would ever have been in a position to vote against instructions.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. Lucia Maria (2,468 comments) says:

    Ross411,

    How is our association with the Americans, with military bases, any different? Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib. Political dissent these days is looking like a towelhead.

    That is a disgusting comment. The Americans don’t ship women and children off to political camps because their families are a threat. However the Soviets were right into that sort of thing, and mass executions of military and political leadership.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Maggy Wassilieff (409 comments) says:

    W.B. Sutch Memorial Toilets

    http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/Ba26Spo-fig-Ba26Spo085a.html

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Mikey: Of course you are right…my memory is a little vague, but either Sutch ditched whatever documents he was going to pass when he realised the cops were about, or Rasgoverov took the documents and high tailed it out of there – as the press photo from the time shows…either way there were no documents to produce as evidence at trial…

    After 40 years I can’t remember what it was, but Sutch had some utter cock and bull story about what he was doing in Aro Street at that time…from memory it didn’t even involve Rasgov, which is part of the reason people assumed he would be convicted…his “explanation” was so obviously bullshit…

    Some above have asked why Sutch continued what he was doing when he must have known the SIS were onto him..I have read of Sutch that he thought he was the most brilliant man in New Zealand – if not the Commonwealth – and thus he thought he was far cleverer than any NZ plod or SIS man…That theory fits…

    Maggy: Hilarious…I can barely imagine going into such awful looking place for a pee let alone something more enjoyable…

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Few of them would have been “fanatical” believers in National Socialism.

    They were at war with Russia. They’re hardly going to be objective in their assessments of the threat to the US.

    Pop quiz: name the biggest concentration camp in Europe during WW2. (Hint, it wasn’t the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex)

    Andernach?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    Milky….
    MI5 would have known. The Royal bureaucracy would have been told. Period.

    Krogers…. I said “suspected”.

    I do not know the extent of all of the suspicions. But do I know what he was suspected of doing in Napier that had a direct bearing on the case, because I was involved in the aftermath. Beyond that, I will not say. But I have dropped a hint or two.

    David G….

    Yep, pretty much the Mike Bungay show. And in the aftermath, there were all the jokes that Bungay’s Alsatian (you remember, the one that owned the Mercedes Benz) would have done a better job than the Ds that buggered up the arrest.

    En passant, the trial Judge, Beattie J, later told me (after his retirement) that he thought Sutch guilty (he and I discussed the matter and my “involvement” while walking together one evening, in Whakatane of all places!), and had been surprised by the jury verdict.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Paulus (2,632 comments) says:

    Doesn’t the Australian Greenpeace Anarchist Party leader live in the Aro Valley ?
    Perhaps he bought Sutch’s house to revive the memory.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘Beyond that, I will not say. But I have dropped a hint or two’
    Ha ha.
    Special knowledge, dropping a hint or two. If you were really on the inside you would be more likely to keep your mouth shut for good.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. doggone7 (808 comments) says:

    The fine threads of naiveté, scepticism, truth and political motivation are woven into stories like this.

    David Farrar puts spin and suggestions out, throws out half truths and expects, hopes, that what is said will end up woven into a whole blanket.

    But “official KGB records” have something about them which make them the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If I’d been working for the KGB in the 60’s I’d have sought out people like Steven Joyce, David Farrar and some of John Key’s present back room boys. They’d do such a good job on constructing the truth that it would be incontrovertible.

    [DPF: Don't be an idiot]

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Nostalgia-NZ (5,221 comments) says:

    Cheers flipper. You’ve upset mikenmild so much he has no idea what he’s defending, apart from it being an uncomfortable notion.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    doggone: don’t be silly…Farrar is merely adding comment to the “Stuff” story…I suggest you read it.

    But I’ll play…Two questions: 1) Do you accept that Dr Sutch, a man who the SIS were so suspicious of they had him under surveillance, and Dmitri Rasgoverov, a suspected KGB agent, were both near a public toilet in Aro Street Wellington – not a long street – on a freezing winters night in 1974? ; and 2) If the answer to 1) is “Yes”, can you suggest what they might both have been doing there that did not involve some nefarious activity connected with espionage?

    I am all ears….

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Maggy Wassilieff (409 comments) says:

    @ Paulus

    Sutch didn’t live in Aro St.
    He lived in an Ernst Plischke – designed house in Todman St, Brooklyn.
    http://digitalnz.org/records/22335792

    I visited his widow there some years back.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. SGA (1,076 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria at 9:28 am

    That is a disgusting comment. The Americans don’t ship women and children off to political camps because their families are a threat.

    While it pales in comparison to what happened under Stalin, the US isn’t completely innocent in this regard.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    Nos….

    I am sure milky has an itch or two, probably in uncomfortable spots.
    They clearly disrupt his thought process.

    A nasty after-thought…
    Did I see a suggestion that the Sutch daughter is in line to take over as VC at VU???
    I would never wish the sins of a father (or mother) on a daughter. But…… that might raise some eyebrows. No? :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    A nasty after-thought…

    Yes, and a somewhat unnecessary one – not your finest moment in my opinion Flipper – you were doing well up until that point!!

    A daughter has the right to think highly of her Dad, as her father, no matter what his sins towards the country might have been. She certainly should not be judged, or thought less of, or have a career she has worked hard at, ruined because of what her father may or may not have done. Especially as at the time she had no way of preventing it, and probably knew nothing about it.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Lucia Maria (2,468 comments) says:

    SGA,

    No one is completely innocent. However, people are normally far safer, by an order of magnitude, associating with America than they are with Russia.

    This whole thing with KGB spies does warrant a full exposure as to just how deep and far it went, and whether it is still active. Especially since the current leader of Russia was the head of the KGB.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Lucia Maria (2,468 comments) says:

    Judith,

    I doubt she knew nothing about it. That sort of thing, an allegiance to a foreign power in that way, can’t be hidden. At the very least the daughter would be have to be pro-Communist, unless she has explicitly renounced it.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. SGA (1,076 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria at 10:56 am

    However, people are normally far safer, by an order of magnitude, associating with America than they are with Russia.

    I think I was careful not to imply anything different. Fair enough?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Lucia Maria (2,468 comments) says:

    SGA,

    Sure. Always important to put in those qualifiers, least people suspect you of doing an Ugly.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Lucia: Your post is all very well, but begs one very obvious question: The cold war having long ended, what about us could possibly interest Russia now? I suppose our involvement in the “Five Eyes” thingie could interest them…they may well make the mistake the dastardly French did in 1985 and assume our police and security forces were a bunch of bumpkins…

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    Heh Judith…

    Those eyebrows (not mine in this instance) have already been raised.

    But while I know nothing about La Sutch’s politics, others do, and do not like them.

    Sort of like the Banks thing turned upside down? No?

    Anyway, good luck to her.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    DG
    The attractive thing about NZ, from a Russian point of view, was always the possibility of back door access to American and British secrets. Makes you wonder why no one was ever caught…

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Lucia Maria (2,468 comments) says:

    David,

    Our influence and standing internationally would interest them. They are fighting an information war right now – any ally is an advantage. Look at all the useful stooges they’ve managed to garner that just comment here on KiwiBlog.

    All those intelligence operatives that were active during the Soviet years – they didn’t just pack up and go home.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    My thoughts on his contrary voting at the UN; getting onside with the Soviets in order to create a cover and then act as a double agent feeding disinformation to them.

    No,too obvious.

    The only answer is he had powerful friends in Wellington.Fellow travellers or subject to blackmail?

    There’s got to be more to it.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Lucia Maria (2,213 comments) says:
    August 11th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Rubbish – there are families throughout the world who had family members that were spies in all sorts of circumstances and knew nothing about the real work their loved one was doing or what they were involved in. When the United Kingdom finally allowed their records to be made public there were many families in total shock over the exploits of men and women they believed to have been employed in ordinary roles. That is the nature of being a spy – you don’t tell all in sundry and you don’t tell a young impressionable person anything more than they need to know.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    Maggy Wassilieff (288 comments) says:

    August 11th, 2014 at 9:05 am

    @ Flipper
    Not Kelburn…
    ****
    Oops..
    I misspoke, “mis-linked”… so to speak.

    I was not referring to Sutch, but to the case of the SIS brief case, pie, and Playboy (or was it Penthouse?) but that was the Bot gardens and Glenmore Street, was it not …or am I now adding to confusion??

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Mikey: Our comments crossed as it were…Yes, backdoor access through what is or may be perceived as second rate security services is a very real possibility I guess..

    If only they WERE so second rate, I might still have a parliamentary career! The police’s passport investigation which netted me and 42 others followed a bungled Mossad operation the previous year (2004) to obtain passports using the method I had used twenty years earlier…If they had made any sort of enquiry they would have known that that particular loophole had been closed some time before by data matching birth records with deaths…

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Lucia Maria (2,468 comments) says:

    LOL, Judith. You’ve been watching too many TV programmes.

    Children are far more influenced by their parents than anyone else, and if this guy obviously voted with the Soviet Union at the UN, he wasn’t hiding what he believed. Rather than outright denying that her father could have been a Soviet agent, the Sutch daughter, whatever her name was, would have been better off staying quiet. Shock is so easy to fake, yet she’s not shocked, she denies that it could be true!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. stephieboy (3,167 comments) says:

    UglyTruth (4,306 comments) says:
    August 11th, 2014 at 8:32 am

    The same global research that gives us this claptrap that prefaces your article,

    Obama’s New World Order.?

    http://www.antichristidentity.com/Bilderberger_2/Bilderberger.htm

    And more claptrap,

    HAARP

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/haarp-secret-weapon-used-for-weather-modification-electromagnetic-warfare/20407

    Not forgetting naturally Chemtrails ,

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/chemtrails-the-consequences-of-toxic-metals-and-chemical-aerosols-on-human-health/19047

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Lucia Maria (2,468 comments) says:

    Kowtow,

    Fellow travellers or subject to blackmail?

    Probably both. Normally there is a handler in a much less obvious position that was far more senior, at least that was the way the NVKD worked. Sutch is the obvious spy – who were the less obvious, more senior people?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    “A daughter has the right to think highly of her Dad, as her father, no matter what his sins towards the country might have been. She certainly should not be judged, or thought less of, or have a career she has worked hard at, ruined because of what her father may or may not have done. ”

    judith,you know little or nothing of the real world.

    Ever heard of “positive vetting”.

    Very common and with good reason.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    LM

    “who were the less obvious, more senior people?”

    That is the real story.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    No-one has yet explained how he was allowed to vote at the UN against our government’s instructions (see the original article DPF quotes from) and not be immediately recalled…

    Did he perhaps persuade the government of the day that the policy of voting with our allies was wrong? he was apparently a hugely influential figure at that time…I am as interested in that aspect of the story as the spying..

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    kowtow
    flipper will be along to drop some hints…
    DG
    I’m curious about that too. I thought he was in a non-representative post at the UN, UNESCO or something similar, so I’m not sure he would have been exercising any vote on behalf of NZ.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    Sutch defended Stalin’s actions on the grounds of economic necessity

    A contradiction, or a fundamental mistake. Economics is primarily concerned with human welfare, not production.

    Anyway, a truly abhorrent point of view: deliberately sacrificing even one person for something so trivial as “economic necessity”, let alone millions, is unfathomable to me. By economic necessity he must mean the glorification of the communist state.

    So much misery from confusing production as an end rather than as means.

    An important reminder to keep the socialists out on 20 September.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    You didn’t read the original article Mikey…”Secretary general of New Zealand’s United Nations delegation…” that is no low level no account official…

    Phil Kitchen is a very thorough journo…he is most unlikely to have got such a basic fact wrong…

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. doggone7 (808 comments) says:

    David Garrett

    What I wrote was intended to not be about the detail of what Sutch did or said or was or wasn’t involved in.
    It was about the process of stories, propaganda, theories, guesswork, conjecture, innuendo and motivation.
    DPF obviously thought the term “idiot” was reasonable thinking the comments related only to details and conclusions of this story.

    If the epithet came forth because of the observations of story telling and constructing of the truth that would at once be amusing and disingenuous.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    .

    The Americans don’t ship women and children off to political camps because their families are a threat.

    The CIA and British intelligence services had no qualms about rendering an entire family including four young children to Libya.

    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1553006/negotiations-libyan-put-cia-torture-flight-hong-kong-stalled

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/13/world/europe/uk-libya-rendition-payout/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    And in Australia…..

    Labor MP named as Soviet informant

    The former Labor member for the NSW electorate of Hunter, Albert James, is listed as an informant of the Soviet intelligence service in the papers of former KGB archivist and defector Vasili Mitrokhin, which were released by the Churchill College Archive in the United Kingdom last month.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/agent-albert-mp-listed-as-secret-kgb-informant-in-russian-archives-20140810-102jtm.html#ixzz3A20kpDM7

    And with the Venona project in the US ……….

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The Venona stuff all came out many years ago, identifying Ian Milner, among other sources.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. Hugh Pavletich (225 comments) says:

    It would appear the Wikipedia entry on WB (Bill) Sutch requires substantial modification …

    Bill Sutch – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Sutch

    It is disappointing to see that there is no scope for comments on today’s Fairfax Sutch article.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Maggy Wassilieff (409 comments) says:

    @ Flipper 11.25am
    (Just got in to see yr posting)

    Yep, you’re misremembering and blending some SIS history.

    The mislaid briefcase containing 3 cold pies, 1 penthouse, and observation notes on a German is from 1981. (SIS agent left briefcase on the fence of a journalist’s relly!)

    Sutch arrest was in 1974….. but he had been under watch by SIS along some of the Kelburn-Salamanca area (Upland Rd) as well as outside Karori Bowling Club and Hopper St (Te Aro).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. Maggy Wassilieff (409 comments) says:

    @ Judith 10:54am

    Everyone in Wellington of a certain age knows the Sutch story.
    This has not prevented Ms Helen Sutch from having an illustrious career in the NZ Public Service (Treasury Dept and Economics adviser to PM) and in private practice.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. ross001 (213 comments) says:

    Bill Sutch was a fine economist, by all accounts.

    http://www.eastonbh.ac.nz/1998/09/trying_to_understand_dr_sutch/
    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/5s54/sutch-william-ball

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote