Bob Jones voting National for first time since 1981

September 3rd, 2014 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

Sir writes:

When I wrote recently that this election was done and dusted, a storm of protest erupted on the New Zealand Herald’s website from Labour’s deeply unattractive, rabid tribalists.

Abuse aside, the common theme was that I’m a die-hard National supporter. That gave great amusement given that I last voted National in 1981. Excepting the New Zealand Party in 1984 and later Act twice, I’ve voted Labour ever since.

So in seven of the last nine elections, Bob Jones has voted Labour.

Policies, not parties are my guide. But while I’ve given financial support to Labour MP friends, I certainly don’t want to see a change of government.

I wonder which Labour MPs will declare donations from Sir Bob?

Aside from other disturbing considerations, a Labour government is currently only possible by incorporating the most abysmal line-up of no-hopers ever to have presented themselves in our history. The Nats’ rowing boat television advertisement is spot-on; consequently, this time National will get my party vote, although I’ll opt for the Labour seat incumbent.

A Labour-Green-NZ First-Mana-Internet Government propped up by Kim Dotcom makes many shudder.

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67 Responses to “Bob Jones voting National for first time since 1981”

  1. J Bloggs (241 comments) says:

    I’ve been a fan of Bob Jones’ writing since I stumbled across “Wimp Walloping” in the local library many years ago. I may not agree with a fair amount of what he says, but by god, I enjoy the way he says it.

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  2. dcrown (17 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  3. Colinxy (24 comments) says:

    I’m surprised anyone thinks Sir Bob Jones is a National Supporter. He is a commercial property landlord in Wellington, especially to government.

    IOW his commercial rent income improves under an expanding public service, and the more rapid the better for Jones; it drives up rent and therefore his income. The last thing Jones would want from an investment point of view is a massively reduced public service and thereby threaten his income stream.

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  4. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  5. David Farrar (1,899 comments) says:

    Dcrown: Any Govt with Winston in it makes me shudder.

    But there is a fundamental difference between a Labour-led Government where the major party is so weak they comprise only half the Government’s numbers, and a National led-Government where they make up 90% to 95% of the Government.

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  6. dcrown (17 comments) says:

    David Farrar: Point taken.

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  7. Lance (2,662 comments) says:

    @dcrown
    Oh FFS… Labour support is in the low 20’s. They are not really a dominant player anymore. It would need a numerous collection of what I personally would consider highly dubious multi-party support to possibly form a govt.
    Therefore those other partys have a significant amount of the vote compared to Labour and as sure as shit will want a BIG say in what policy is produced.

    Contrast that with National at close to 50% support who might need some support from minor partys who will at best have a slight influence of National Parry policy.

    That is how MMP works, if you don’t like it, maybe you could vote against it?

    EDIT;
    Bugger
    DPF beat me to it, in a much more succinct manner

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  8. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Re the Red Toad (12.10)

    NZ wasn’t an international pariah! What balls.

    As I recall Jones at the time explained his support for the Muldoon position as something on the the lines that street demonstrators should not be allowed to overturn the actions of a democratically elected government.

    That’s not evidence of poor moral calibre.

    I’m not a huge fan of Bob Jones, but the ball of Jones’s left thumb is worth ten thousand Leftist pricks like Minto, who Herman the German is trying to get into Parliament.

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  9. freemark (581 comments) says:

    @Toad. What is it with you Lefties who can’t get over an 33 year old minor event?
    The world has moved on, no one remembers. At about the same time Millions were dying of starvation & violent repression at the hands of your Communist mates, shall we talk about that?

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  10. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    So the idea of the Labour shambles scares him enough to forgo a decent amount of money. the dude makes plenty under labour governments.

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  11. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    That reveals something of the moral calibre of the man.

    It does. He felt that his civil right to watch a silly little game of rugby – a game he’s never been much interested in actually – did not deserve to be fucked over by people merely empowered by finger-wagging moral righteousness and high moral indignation.

    You never got that, and it’s frightening to think that three decades later you still don’t. One wonders what other civil rights you’d be willing to screw over in the name of whatever drives you now. Plenty I’d bet.

    After all, “those people” are your political and ideological opponents. What civil rights do those assholes have except to do what you tell them is the right thing to do?

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  12. Nostradamus (3,350 comments) says:

    Toad:

    So Bob Jones voted National a few months after Muldoon caused the greatest NZ civil unrest of the 20th century and made NZ an international pariah by supporting apartheid South Africa’s rugby team touring here.

    That reveals something of the moral calibre of the man.

    But what does your comment reveal about you, Toad? Did you miss the words “I last voted National in 1981″? And why is it that you and so many other lefties are stuck in the Springbok tour timewarp?

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  13. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Toad

    So Bob Jones voted National a few months after Muldoon caused the greatest NZ civil unrest of the 20th century and made NZ an international pariah by supporting apartheid South Africa’s rugby team touring here.

    Funny, I seem to remember Jones made a very public stance against legalised racism when he evicted the Fijian High Commission from his property after the 19787 coup…and noted the deafening silence of those who had marched against apartheid in 1981, despite the double irony that institutionalised racism was now in our own South Pacific back yard.

    Funny, Toad. I don’t remember anyone protesting Fiji’s presence at the 1987 Rugby World Cup.

    How about you?

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  14. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    If National is so cleaver why don’t they take the advice of Treasury, the Reserve Bank or the Savings Working Group with regard to the effects of immigration on “the well being on New Zealanders”?

    Ans = The Bob Jones (Colliers, Bayley’s, Harcourts Shanghai, The Property Councill, the Immigration Agency’s).

    P.S That goes for the Watermelon Green Party too Toad! Except that in your case it is a matter of “progressives of the internationalist tradition” with dollops of wreckers and haters.

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  15. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Jack5 (4,918 comments) says:
    September 3rd, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    Re the Red Toad (12.10)

    NZ wasn’t an international pariah! What balls.

    When we were supporting white supremacy in South Africa by maintaining sporting contacts with the apartheid state running the show?
    We were definitely international pariahs, everybody else frowns on overt displays of white supremacy. Your grasp of history seems to have been warped by a deteriorating narrative that needs to be swiftly dispatched to the handiest garbage receptacle.

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  16. Nostradamus (3,350 comments) says:

    HJ:

    … the Savings Working Group with regard to the effects of immigration on “the well being on New Zealanders” … Harcourts Shanghai … the Immigration Agency’s …

    You know, I hate to tell you this, but the Savings Working Group and immigration aren’t relevant to every Kiwiblog thread.

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  17. peterwn (3,277 comments) says:

    Interesting, there was a National hoarding on one of his buildings in 2008, but perhaps he got disenchanted with National at the last minute then.

    I think Bob votes Labour for a financial reason – he can make money out of Labour policies since he understands real estate and its financial implications far better than the average left winger. He gloated how property investors made money out of the ‘Property Speculation Tax’ brought in by the Kirk 1972-1975 Labour Government.

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  18. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Yoza

    Countries that had official representative rugby contacts with South African rugby in the same era:

    1980: Jaguars (Argentina, Paraguay and Chile) toured South Africa

    1980: British Lions (UK and Republic of Ireland) toured South Africa

    1980: Springboks tour Chile

    1980: France toured South Africa

    1981: Ireland (Republic and Northern Ireland/UK) toured South Africa in the month before the 1981 Springbok tour

    1981: Springboks tour the USA and play a game after leaving New Zealand

    1982: Jaguars tour South Africa

    1984: England tour South Africa.

    So how come the UK, Republic of Ireland, France, USA, Argentina, Chile, and Paraguay have witch hunts some 30+ years after the event, beating themselves up as pariahs?

    Answer: Only New Zealand has a bunch of self-righteous malcontents wanting to paint the moral ambiguity of the past in black and while for their own self-serving ends.

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  19. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Kimbo (759 comments) says:
    September 3rd, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    @ Toad


    So Bob Jones voted National a few months after Muldoon caused the greatest NZ civil unrest of the 20th century and made NZ an international pariah by supporting apartheid South Africa’s rugby team touring here.

    Funny, I seem to remember Jones made a very public stance against legalised racism when he evicted the Fijian High Commission from his property after the 19787 coup

    So it’s ‘funny’ that Bob Jones recognises racism by non-whites, yet is incapable of recognising overt in-your-face acts of racism carried out by whites? This is exactly the kind of behaviour we should expect from reactionary bigots.

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  20. waikatogirl (467 comments) says:

    Good on you Bob. Encourage your friends and family to vote sensibly/National as well.

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  21. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    So it’s ‘funny’ that Yoza recognises racism by whites, yet is incapable of recognising overt in-your-face acts of racism carried out by non-whites?

    This is exactly the kind of behaviour we should expect from reactionary bigots.

    :)

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  22. Harriet (4,990 comments) says:

    “….This is exactly the kind of behaviour we should expect from reactionary bigots….”

    So how’s the Fakestinian thing going for you this week Tom? :cool:

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  23. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Yoza

    So it’s ‘funny’ that Bob Jones recognises racism by non-whites, yet is incapable of recognising overt in-your-face acts of racism carried out by whites? This is exactly the kind of behaviour we should expect from reactionary bigots.

    And yet many of us have matured and developed, and in some cases changed opinions – or at least developed more nuance in our views, or the capacity to see things from other points of view. Ross Meurant is a case in point.

    Yet the likes of John Minto retain the same inflexible perspective.

    What does it say about people whose views remain the same and they want to continue to hit opponents over the head with epithets like reactionary bigots, long after the issue in question ceased to be an issue?

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  24. IGM (424 comments) says:

    toad: Aptly depicts the user.

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  25. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    tom hunter (4,576 comments) says:
    September 3rd, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    So it’s ‘funny’ that Yoza recognises racism by whites, yet is incapable of recognising overt in-your-face acts of racism carried out by non-whites?

    This is exactly the kind of behaviour we should expect from reactionary

    Sorry, I’m assuming you can provide a link backing up this latest little invention, Tom.

    And Kimbo, Thatcher and a bunch of teams from fascist South America is hardly evidence of our acceptable international credibility.

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  26. chris (647 comments) says:

    What I think is quite interesting about the whole Springbok tour thing is how Laila Harre brought it up at the Helensville debate (in a roundabout kind of way) like it’s somehow relevant today, and yet when people tried to question KDC’s hacking, the excuse was it happened a long time ago and isn’t relevant anymore, even though it was a lot more recent and a lot more relevant.

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  27. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Kimbo, when I was 12 during 1981 I was a Springbok Tour supporting rugby fanatic, I grew up. Bob Jones’ child like behaviour is his most irritating characteristic.

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  28. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Yoza

    Thatcher…is hardly evidence of our acceptable international credibility.

    You missed out Reagan (as per the 1981 Springbok tour to the USA). And I seem to recall they were highly respected in international relations when the Berlin Wall crumbled. Certainly there legacy is far more significant than the procession of tinpot dictators like Mugabe who criticised us over the 1981 tour…

    But then I could see, given your bigoted views, that that wouldn’t count as a major achievement…

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  29. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Vote for a government that allowed people to play rugby 33 years ago and you are a pariah for life.

    But support a communist government that murdered four million people in the killing fields and there is no problem being a senior Green MP.

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  30. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Yoza posted at 12.32:

    We were definitely international pariahs, everybody else frowns on overt displays of white supremacy.

    South Africa was isolated by trade boycotts etc, and that showed many countries regarded it as a pariah.

    But for merely playing rugby with South Africa, what embargoes, boycotts, etc were imposed on NZ? None that I recall.

    Kimbo at 12.40 nicely shows the hypocrisy and lies of your position on this issue.

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  31. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Yoza

    Kimbo, when I was 12 during 1981 I was a Springbok Tour supporting rugby fanatic,

    I was 14 and a rugby fanatic like you. I would have been heart-broken if the tour had not gone ahead…and if the All Blacks had lost!

    And I have also changed. Including being able to see the issue from a multiplicity of viewpoints.

    The tour was a series of competing rights and wrongs…no matter what your point of view, rather than succumbing to the emotionally satisfying temptation to see it as stark black and white. It could never be. It was all about South Africa, and nothing about South Africa. All about apartheid and nothing about apartheid. All about rugby and nothing about rugby. .

    Personally I don’t think it should have happened, but I nonetheless admire Ces Blazey and even Rob Muldoon (he was always consistent in his views on the non-interference of politics in sport/dissuading rather than intervening). I also admire John Minto’s zeal and courage, although I still think it was dangerous anarchy to allow illegal trespass and threats of violence to curtail the lawful freedoms of others.

    So why throw rocks about it when it is now nothing but a shibboleth of New Zealand domestic politics? South Africa, and Nelson Mandela moved on. Why not the NZ anti-tour die-hards?

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  32. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ jack5

    But for merely playing rugby with South Africa, what embargoes, boycotts, etc were imposed on NZ? None that I recall.

    The only one I can recall was that the NZ Cricket team’s tour of the West Indies scheduled for early 1982 was cancelled. As this was just a couple of years after their infamous tour here in 1980, and as their bowling attack consisted of Michael Holding, Joel Garner, and Malcolm Marshall all in their primes…I’m not so sure the cricketers were too upset!

    Oh yes. And Rob Muldoon was criticised at the 1981 Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Melbourne. Mind you, as Malcolm Fraser was intending to fawn and slobber all over a bunch of despicable dictators, it probably needed someone with Muldoon’s blunt honesty to expose it for the hypocrisy it was for Robert Mugabe to be lecturing us on human rights and racism,

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  33. publicwatchdog (2,626 comments) says:

    The thought of the return this John Key led National Government with its dirty, despicable ‘Wall Street’ ways makes me shudder

    The best way to get rid of the politically partial, ‘out of control’ Office of the Prime Minister, which is not subject to statute or regulation, is to get rid of the Prime Minister to which it is attached.

    Let’s have a big, fat CLEAN OUT – then a big, fat CLEAN UP of NZ politics, by dumping this John Key led National Government.

    I’m sure increasing numbers of DECENT New Zealanders will agree with me.

    (Quite possibly not so many Kiwibloggers will share this view ;)

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  34. radvad (767 comments) says:

    “Show us your Coalition”. Key to Cunliffe in the final debate.

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  35. UrbanNeocolonialist (290 comments) says:

    Kimbo: I new a guy who was involved briefly in anti-tour organisation. He was deeply disappointed to discover that the big names (Minto et al) were Socialist Unity Party and Stalinist crypto-communists (as the Greens are now) only interested in it as an anti govt vehicle. The leaders of the left don’t actually care about the proletariat.

    I am proud that so many average NZers in 1981 were principled enough to oppose the tour, I think the worldwide sanctions and pressure helped speed the end of apartheid. I am embarrassed that we tolerate ‘good’ racism in our countries laws (as Whyte eloquently pointed out recently) now.

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  36. Ed Snack (1,883 comments) says:

    Limbo, it’s all they’ve got ! One re-written bit of history to remind themselves of the glory days when “they” mattered.

    As for supporting genocide, you have to remember that those people that supposedly died really deserved it, and they weren’t of a dark enough skin hue to really count, and anyway the genocide was carried out by their own “democratically decided” (can’t stretch to elected) government so it was OK, and it was the US’s fault for bombing the place anyway, and LOOK, A SQUIRREL…

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  37. radvad (767 comments) says:

    Penny
    Do you mean the “despicable Wall Street ways” that have reduced unemployment and crime, delivered record low interest rates, held power prices to much lower increases than Labour ever managed and sold much less land to foreign buyers than Labour. This is of course not to mention many other achievements but ignored by those blinded by hatred like yourself.

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  38. Nookin (3,361 comments) says:

    “The best way to get rid of the politically partial, ‘out of control’ Office of the Prime Minister, which is not subject to statute or regulation, is to get rid of the Prime Minister to which it is attached.”

    Which of the other parties intends to subject the PM’s office to statute and regulation?

    As a matter of interest, what statutes and regs apply to DPMC but not the PM?

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  39. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Let’s have a big, fat CLEAN OUT – then a big, fat CLEAN UP of NZ politics, by dumping this John Key led National Government.

    Indeed – for a REAL clean-out of everything that’s wrong with NZ politics – vote for the independent candidate for Helensville.
    Because it takes REAL integrity to:

    :arrow: default on your council rates.

    :arrow: Make out that you’re the official media spokesperson for an Occupy movement that wants nothing to do with you.

    :arrow: get arrested for trespass, gatechrashing a conference you haven’t paid to attend, but think you should be given a free pass because you’re you.

    :arrow: Privately prosecute a past Mayoral candidate for improper donation declarations, whilst being a current mayoral candidate in the receipt of $10,000+ in anonymous donations yourself.

    For a REAL BIG FAT CLEAN-UP of NZ politics – vote for Penny ‘Free Ride’ Bright :-)

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  40. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

    and here it is. the fucking springbok tour thread. every election.

    let it go you sad old hippies. NO ONE cares.

    no doubt at the next debate, some grey haired asshole with a beard and standard issue lefty lisp will get up an ask the leaders about the springbok tour. give me strength.

    Dime just wishes he had been old enough at the time to dish out some hippy beatings

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  41. tom1980 (44 comments) says:

    Penny, I live in Auckland Central and every step I take outside my apartment I’m confronted by your Helensville campaign posters. You do realize that they’re two totally different places? And that Helensville voters are most likely to be located in… Helensville?

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  42. Redbaiter (9,123 comments) says:

    I’m surprised anyone thinks Sir Bob Jones is a National Supporter. He is a commercial property landlord in Wellington, especially to government.

    IOW his commercial rent income improves under an expanding public service, and the more rapid the better for Jones; it drives up rent and therefore his income. The last thing Jones would want from an investment point of view is a massively reduced public service and thereby threaten his income stream.

    That is very true. I don’t dislike Bob Jones and enjoy his propensity for speaking truth despite the efforts of The Guardians, but I wouldn’t let how he voted have any influence over my own vote. The larger the govt, the more he profits.

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  43. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    So Bob is voting for Mallard, and Party Vote National. That’s interesting.

    I guess you could say a ‘bob’ each way! :-)

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  44. Redbaiter (9,123 comments) says:

    DPF

    “there is a fundamental difference between a Labour-led Government where the major party is so weak they comprise only half the Government’s numbers, and a National led-Government where they make up 90% to 95% of the Government.”

    Dcrown

    “David Farrar: Point taken.”

    Yes its a valid point but the fact is the power of the minor parties is still just as great, and Key has frequently made the excuse that it is MMP that has stopped him implementing some changes he says he would have otherwise made.

    So even though its valid, its not all that significant.

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  45. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Nostradamus (3,160 comments) says:
    September 3rd, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    HJ:
    You know, I hate to tell you this, but the Savings Working Group and immigration aren’t relevant to every Kiwiblog thread.

    1) It is relevant because it shows an administration that is not acting in the countries interest
    2) It is relevant because Bob Jones represents a group who benefit most and are least affected by that slant of policy.

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  46. IGM (424 comments) says:

    Public Dog: Do you wish to see the country ruined by feral scum you are representative of. Go make a personal dollar, pay your rates, and give up your miserable crusade of envy. You and your ilk are losers, leeches, and disasters.

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  47. Shawn Herles (5,293 comments) says:

    From Yoza

    “So it’s ‘funny’ that Bob Jones recognises racism by non-whites, yet is incapable of recognising overt in-your-face acts of racism carried out by whites? This is exactly the kind of behaviour we should expect from reactionary bigots.”

    Like you? Given that you have a hard on for the Arabs finishing what Hitler started, you are in no position to be making accusations of racism. Your own racial hatred of the Jews and your overt support for Islamo-fascist groups like HAMAS who are dedicated to the annihilation of all Jews makes anything you say about Jones or the Springbok tour a total, hypocritical joke.

    Leftists like you have never been truly concerned about racism. Race is just another hook to advance the agenda of the far left, and increasingly that agenda is deeply racist in it’s attitudes towards Jews and Israel.

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  48. MT_Tinman (3,205 comments) says:

    Bob Jones voted Labour in 1990?

    I’m shocked!

    VERY shocked indeed.

    Or did he just not vote that year, deliberately abstaining given the abysmal options?

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  49. MT_Tinman (3,205 comments) says:

    Yoza 1981 was about the majority believing we could show SA the right way to live by inviting them here and showing them how we did it and a minority of vandalistic, communist, racist, scum, led, of course by the lowest form of life on the planet – the toad types – and the black power/mongrel mob, destroying things and removing peoples’ rights because they knew better.

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  50. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ MT_Tinman

    Yoza 1981 was about the majority believing we could show SA the right way to live by inviting them here and showing them how we did it and a minority of vandalistic, communist, racist, scum, led, of course by the lowest form of life on the planet – the toad types – and the black power/mongrel mob, destroying things and removing peoples’ rights because they knew better.

    And here’s the thing. While Nelson Mandela, the greatest statesman of the late 20th Century was obviously opposed to the 1981 Springbok tour, nonetheless he accepted the merit of the argument that when Maori and other Polynesian All Blacks played and excelled at the international level against South Africa…it did indeed have some effect in weakening the ugly edifice that was apartheid.

    So if Nelson Mandela, with the benefit of hindsight could see it from both sides, and accept with magnanimity that the past was past, and even if people disagreed, they usually did so in good faith…why can’t the remaining hardcore of the New Zealand anti-tour movement?

    Answer: Because Mandela was moral a giant…and they are ethical pygmies allowing their morality to be governed by the rest of their sad clique

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  51. MT_Tinman (3,205 comments) says:

    Kimbo I’ve found the mention of Timoci Bavadra and the 1987 Fiji coup sorts them out.

    Purely racist but not one of the vandalistic, communist, racist, scum who looked so beautiful running from the batons of the Red/Blue squad heroes even countenanced protesting it.

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  52. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    As a rentier, Jones is likely opposed to the capital gains tax.

    His complaints about the competency of the Labour caucus are idiotic and he knows it. Fact is that most people who will get elected to the next parliament are experienced, professional politicians. If you took half of parliament at random, you would still be able to organise a functional government.

    Oh FFS… Labour support is in the low 20′s. They are not really a dominant player anymore. It would need a numerous collection of what I personally would consider highly dubious multi-party support to possibly form a govt.

    That’s just stupid. The left vote in NZ has settled into a coalition of the Greens and Labour, Labour representing the union workers, social democrats and conservative working class and the Greens representing the urban liberals and environmentalists. The Greens haven’t been a minor party for some time now. Norman and Turei have turned it away from a hippie party. They’ll likely get 15% again this time.

    That means any left government in NZ for the foreseeable future is going to be a Labour/Green coalition. At present they have somewhere in the region of 40-43% of the vote between them. National is down to 45% in the latest Roy Morgan, and will likely end up in my view in the low 40s.

    You lot seem to forget that the National party got more votes than any MMP party in NZ history last time and still only barely managed to form a government by means of dodgy deals with ACT, Dunne and the Maori Party. The right vote is now National and some also rans.

    Those three are probably going to be down to 3-4 MPs this time. National is going to need to do better than it did last time if it wants the same government, or it will have to go begging to Winston (who’s decided he’s going to make unreasonable demands).

    So how is National going to win without Winston (who’s polling consistently above 5% now?

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  53. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    So if Nelson Mandela, with the benefit of hindsight could see it from both sides, and accept with magnanimity that the past was past, and even if people disagreed, they usually did so in good faith.

    Mandela was a politician and a diplomat. Those of us who don’t have to be so nice can call out your racism for what it was.

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  54. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Tom Jackson

    …”call out your racism”…

    What racism is that, tom?

    Starting with examples from what I’ve posted on this thread, thanks very much…

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  55. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    What racism is that, tom?

    I’m sorry. I misspoke. I meant your indefatigable support of authority come what may.

    The tour was a series of competing rights and wrongs…no matter what your point of view, rather than succumbing to the emotionally satisfying temptation to see it as stark black and white. It could never be. It was all about South Africa, and nothing about South Africa. All about apartheid and nothing about apartheid. All about rugby and nothing about rugby.

    Horseshit and sophistry, bro.

    You supported the tour, you were an enabler of racism. If you want forgiveness be contrite.

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  56. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    I don’t believe for a moment that Jones has voted Labour as often as he says. Jones is well know for making outlandish comments on a number of topics, and shifting his positions 180 degrees.

    For example, about 10 years ago he announced that despite having been a keen promoter of the sport, he would not longer have anything to do with boxing, since it was a barbaric sport which severely damaged many of its practitioners. A few years later he reversed his position, and today he is again closely involved with the “barbaric sport” he once condemned.

    As for his writing, it’s mildly amusing most of the time, albeit at a fairly sophomoric level.

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  57. MT_Tinman (3,205 comments) says:

    David Garrett, having re-read much of Jones’ work reasonably recently I disagree.

    While his recent columns are often re-hashes of old work his books, particularly the fiction (Ogg, Full Circle, The Permit) are great reading.

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  58. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Tom Jackson

    You supported the tour, you were an enabler of racism. If you want forgiveness be contrite.

    I admire Graham Mourie’s decision not to play in 1981. But he always maintained it was a personal conscience decision. So what gives you the right to dictate to the conscience of others, and suggest I need forgiveness? A typical totalitarian approach. And you accuse me of slavish adherence to authority!

    And just to clarify, seeing you have assumed the mantle of discerning and dispensing infallible morality:

    Was the All Black tour to Roumania and France a month after Marx Jones endangered the life of hundreds at Eden Park in 1981 a case of enabling the notorious Ceaușescu regime, and nuclear testing in the South Pacific?

    And as Fiji has not resorted to full democracy or completely purged itself of legalised racist elements in its constitution, does that make you an enabler for not protesting Fiji’s presence at the 2011 Rugby World Cup.

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  59. Colinxy (24 comments) says:

    “I don’t believe for a moment that Jones has voted Labour as often as he says.”

    Why David? I’ve long believed Jones has been a major supporter of the Labour party: it’s in his best financial interests to do so. He has now confirmed that belief. What I doubt is the number of times he has voted Act.

    I suspect the real reason he has shifted to National is the CGT push by Labour and every other reason is minor.

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  60. Kimbo (934 comments) says:

    @ Tom Jackson

    And as much as I admire Graham Mourie’s decision, he in turn had admiration for Bryan Williams’s decision in 1970 to tour South Africa, and despite being only 19 years old, stage his own spectacular one-man protest on the field to demonstrate in the heart of white South Africa the inherent folly of apartheid…

    Or was Beegee Williams also an enabler of racism?

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  61. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    MT: To be fair, I have not read of any of Jones’ fiction…I am basing my judgment on his columns and some of his very old non fiction…he’s as jealous as hell of his brother of course..

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  62. MT_Tinman (3,205 comments) says:

    DG, sorry for the delay in replying, dinner was served.

    I can recommend Joneses fiction, he writes well.

    I’m a fan of fiction. It’s often the most honest of writing, floating ideas and concepts non-fiction can not in a way that provokes thought and, eventually, investigation.

    Tom Jackson

    You supported the tour, you were an enabler of racism.

    You are at best deluded, at worst a liar and either way definitely a fucking idiot with no concept at all of what 1981 was about.

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  63. OneTrack (3,121 comments) says:

    “a fucking idiot with no concept at all of what 1981 was about.”

    Wasn’t it a reason to get out and throw bottles at the police? Sticking in to the man?

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  64. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    he’s as jealous as hell of his brother of course..

    Who’s his brother David?

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  65. Liberty (267 comments) says:

    “Answer: Only New Zealand has a bunch of self-righteous malcontents wanting to paint the moral ambiguity of the past in black and while for their own self-serving ends.”

    In 1981 the leftie Media perpetuated the myth . It was only NZ that had sporting contact with south Africa.
    Minto the urban militant. along with great unwashed fanned the fire.
    All part of the marxist agenda.

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  66. New Zeal (451 comments) says:

    Dotcom has just pledged / given $3 mil for a purpose whose most likely outcome is to get the National government back in. The left-wing multi-headed hydra consisting of Labour, Greens, NZ First, Mana and Dotcom is a truly a thing to avoid.

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  67. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    @Reid: Lloyd Jones

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