General Debate 17 September 2014

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Nostradamus

Ste3e:

Good grief – none so blind as those who won’t see.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re not trolling. So here goes…

Did you see this bit in the article I linked to above?

Helen Clark said that a dedicated website containing more information about the FTA is being launched today [ie 7 April 2008].

The site, http://www.ChinaFTA.govt.nz , contains the full text of the agreement and a detailed guide to it. It features tools to assist New Zealand and Chinese businesses to take advantage of the FTA.

Are you with me so far?

So, just in case you’re not, the dedicated website (with the full text of the New Zealand-China free trade agreement ) was launched on the day that New Zealand signed it.

Now, just for fun, click here to see the full text. Then, for bonus points, point to some differences between this free trade agreement and the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership. To take one example (as explained on Wikipedia):

As of 2012, US negotiators were pursuing an investor-state dispute settlement mechanism, also known as corporate tribunals, which can be used to attack domestic public interest laws.[89] This mechanism is a common provision in international trade and investment agreements, that grants an investor the right to initiate dispute settlement proceedings against a foreign government in their own right under international law. For example, if an investor invests in country “A”, a member of a trade treaty, and country A breaches that treaty, then the investor may sue country A’s government for the breach.[citation needed]

See Articles 152 to 158 of the New Zealand-China free trade agreement. There you go – Helen Clark signed New Zealand up to an investor-state dispute settlement mechanism!

So your position can apparently be summarised as follows:

– Labour signs free trade agreement months before an election without public consultation – GOOD!
– National negotiates free trade agreement and hasn’t even reached the point of concluding those negotiations – BAD!
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September 17, 2014 5:16pm
tom hunter

When you were gaining your degree Nostradamus, you made money during the New Zealand summers by clubbing baby Harp Seals in the Arctic, no?
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September 17, 2014 5:28pm
fonctionnaire

Every country gathers intelligence from friend and foe to defend itself and its national interests (including military, economic). The world is a dangerous place and is getting more so. NZ is fortunate in that through the 5 eyes network it is is able to defend itself much better than if it was acting alone. Successive governments over many years, labour and national, have recognised this. This PM has a grave responsibility and is no different from his predecessors. What is different is the level of abuse, misrepresentation and ignorant comment he has had to endure. The media, especially the TV channels and the Dompost are not reporting the detail in a balanced way but giving us their views on what we should think. Many of the public haven’t the time to do the analysis themselves but fortunately have now developed a healthy scepticism of the broad brush messages from Gower, Vance etc.
In the end the secret services cannot carry out their work in public so the question boils down to how much we can trust them and the old dilemma of “who guards the guardians”. They are human and are not free from error but I trust them and I trust Key and past and future PMs to act in the national interest. This is bigger than party politics and after the election there needs be consensus building between the parties on defending NZ. If that needs a special judicial commission operating in private then so be it.
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September 17, 2014 5:43pm
adze

Re: Dirty Politics.

I had the displeasure of listening to Tim Watkin and David Slack opine on RadioNZ’s ‘The Panel’ this afternoon. Mr. Slack said that he could not recall any prior examples of a someone like Slater using public attacks to silence political opposition, and he spoke at length about how unprecedentedly awful it was.
Well, he’s got a short fucking memory; because I easily remember the Unite Union picketing the offices of Paul Henry after he made his ill-advised comments about the former Gov. General Anand Satynanand, calling for his resignation:

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/130033/calls-henry-be-sacked

Regardless of whether Henry had made a “sackable offence”, it’s highly irregular that a union would campaign for someone to lose their job; and given Henry’s well-known political sympathies it’s not hard to imagine there was a political agenda at play there also.

Slack also took the time to have a go at DPF because of the well-worn trope of Kiwiblog comments being literally worse than Hitler. No mention of The Standard or The Daily Blog comments, or pretty much anything about Bradbury’s blog, of course.
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September 17, 2014 5:47pm
Nostradamus

Tom Hunter:

I used to shred chicken feet for a living, too, but let’s not go there!

By the way, Tom, I note you’ve declared hunting season on Tom Jackson. He was last observed fleeing from a Kiwiblog thread with his tail between his legs. He came out of the blocks early, with solid declarations such as “game over” and “Key has to resign now”. Then, almost as if Mr Jackson realised he was standing on quicksand, he began to moderate his position, with several heavily-qualified questions (“If it is genuine”). And then… poof… he simply disappeared!

Though, to be fair, Mr Jackson briefly popped up on this thread to say:

I accept that the previous Labour government was knee deep in this as well. That’s why they all have to go. Not just politicians, but journalists, jurists and most of the “establishment”. They are all corrupt.

I’ve just checked, and that was the only comment Mr Jackson has made since his spectacular own-goal on the 14 September thread (the one he ran away from).

Should we send out a search party?
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September 17, 2014 5:48pm
tom hunter

By the way, Tom, I note you’ve declared hunting season on Tom Jackson.

Not at all. He’s on record as saying that he comes to Kiwiblog simply to gain as many downticks as possible. I therefore regard him as Kiwiblog’s premier performance artist of left-wing comedy, never better demonstrated than in this comment:

If she hadn’t married Bill Clinton, she would have had an even more stellar career. She gave up a lot of her own ambitions for love.

Now that is comedy platinum.

Although I do wish he’d taken right-wing stance as he would easily exceed Milk Me‘s efforts – though his line about driving down from Picton to Chch in an Audi V8 and trying to hit a seal on the road for its fur, was not bad.

Should we send out a search party?

Normally I’d say no as he has vanished before for days or weeks. But yes, he may well have overdone it the other day.

My bet would be on the US mid-term elections in November to mark his return.
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September 17, 2014 6:04pm
kowtow

adze I had a smile at how evil us kb posters are ,according to Slack.

That panel really is a cess pit of progs though.(with some very few exceptions)
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September 17, 2014 6:09pm
Nostradamus

Ste3e introduced himself to Kiwiblog readers on 31 October 2011. The timing (just before the last election) was no doubt purely coincidental.

His opening gambit:

The problem with National’s policy is that it is a punt.
…
Labour, on the other hand, have taken a far more cautious approach. Doing what they can ensure opportunities by supporting research, emerging business, and the social health of the country; prudently covering Government debt blow out by tax reform; listening to credit rating agencies’ critique and altering superanuation accordingly.
…

Translation: Labour good, National bad.

Then, after a flurry of posts, on 6 November 2011 Other_Andy felt able to say “Reason and logic goes way over ste3e’s head…”.

And, when one considers some of the more “out there” statements from Ste3e, such as “Right wing policies kill people and privilege, no matter how it is earned, does not alter that fact or make it acceptable”, I’m inclined to agree.
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September 17, 2014 6:12pm
Fletch

I notice that the Conservative Party have a Deborah Cunliffe on their list.

Any relation?
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September 17, 2014 6:18pm
Griff

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/roy-morgan-poll-shows-nats-extending-lead-labourgreens-fading-bd-162546
The last Roy Morgan opinion poll before the general election on Saturday shows the National Party gaining ground in the first fortnight of September, up 1.5 percentage points to 46.5 percent, while both the Labour and Green parties slipped in the rolling poll of 935 people taken between Sept. 1 and 14, one day before Kim Dotcom’s ‘moment of truth’ extravaganza in Auckland. (See graph below)

The poll shows the Internet-Mana party stuck on one percent support, the Conservative Party unchanged at 3.5 percent and unable to enter Parliament except in the unlikely event it wins a territorial electorate, and New Zealand First riding high at 8 percent support, up two percentage points on Roy Morgan’s previous poll, taken in the last fortnight of August.

Party vote ACT for a right wing government
or waste you vote on Colin if you want a Peters power play to decide the next government
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September 17, 2014 6:18pm
Nostradamus

A present for the loser holding the voodoo doll: click here to claim your prize.
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September 17, 2014 6:23pm
Nostradamus

A present for the ANGRY loser targeting me: click here to claim your prize.

The present was kindly donated by Nasska.
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September 17, 2014 6:25pm
big bruv

Nos

Are you talking about somebody with a well documented anger problem?
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September 17, 2014 6:36pm
Sublime

A little something from over at Whaleoil …

These stories aren’t new. And with 2 days before an election, it’s too little, too late. Even so, it’s nice that some of the media are finally willing to actually have a look behind Dotcom’s PR engine

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/09/3rd-degree-may-first-run-negative-piece-dotcom/

Very little very late. But even the best, well-paid PR engines can’t run at full speed forever.
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September 17, 2014 6:39pm
flipper

TV3 tonite says Nats down 2+ %, Labour down .5 %.

We all await revised Herald, One, and Fairfax.

On the nite –
Nats probably 47.5
Lab 24
Sounds likely
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September 17, 2014 6:40pm
Sublime

Fletch: I notice that the Conservative Party have a Deborah Cunliffe on their list.

Nah I don’t think she is. I’m sure I recall hearing that being discussed before; I don’t remember there being a link. Happy to be proven wrong though 🙂
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September 17, 2014 6:40pm
Sublime

Yes saw that, Flipper. Interesting. I think they had the Conservatives up near the magic 5 as well.

It seems that when one poll (say Reid, Roy Morgan etc … ) does/says one thing, there’s an inevitable swing the other way the next time there’s a poll. Or maybe it’s just media reporting. I think this [3 News one] was the last biggie before the election.
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September 17, 2014 6:42pm
Nostradamus

Big Bruv:

Are you talking about somebody with a well documented anger problem?

If I said yes, would that narrow the field of enquiry for you?
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September 17, 2014 6:43pm
Fletch

Fletch: I notice that the Conservative Party have a Deborah Cunliffe on their list.

Nah I don’t think she is. I’m sure I recall hearing that being discussed before; I don’t remember there being a link. Happy to be proven wrong though 🙂

She is their candidate for Bay Of Plenty.

Region: Bay of Plenty/Tauranga

Name: Deborah Cunliffe

Email: deborah.cunliffe@conservativeparty.org.nz

http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=Contacts

http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=Election2014

Probably no relation, but you never know!
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September 17, 2014 6:46pm
nasska

Fletch

You’ll note that on some levels there seems to be quite strong “connections” between Labour & Conservative candidates.
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September 17, 2014 6:54pm
Griff

http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/12-months-time-here-what-will-matter-jamie-whyte/5/202468

By Dr Jamie Whyte, ACT Party Leader

In three days’ time I will be elected along with a number of ACT MPs. I think the media will be surprised and ask how it happened?

Let me tell you.

First, ACT has been rising in all the polls. On the latest Colmar Brunton poll, David Seymour wins Epsom and I am elected.

Second, once a party wins an electorate, the number of votes needed to win a Party seat is very low. Each National list MP will take about 60,000 votes, more than the total votes of any one electorate. By contrast, just 28,000 votes will add me to David Seymour. And 44,000 Party votes will give ACT three MPs.

The electorates won by a party are deducted from its list MPs. That is why Labour may get no list MPs.

The ideal way to game MMP is to have a party that wins only electorates and a partner that wins only list seats. Labour and the Greens are now in that situation and may as a result steal the election from National, who would be recording the biggest win in our history if this were a first-past-the-post election.
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September 17, 2014 7:00pm
Griff

Strangely I see that d4j is lurking around on another thread
He has repeatedly denied being minus and this is only a pure coincidence as d4j would never lie
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September 17, 2014 7:02pm
Nostradamus

Griff:

d4j would never lie

I believe Big Bruv has a list that’s longer than Rapunzel’s hair.
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September 17, 2014 7:07pm
ross411

Watching the one news thing with Cunliffe and Key. Cunliffe looks red and squinty, like he is trying to squeeze a number one out. However, he isn’t giving as many empty sermons as he normally does. But he is overtalking too much, and Hosking is letting him.

There’s so much squabbling at times, that the show is almost pointless. Key needs to call Cunliffe out on his BS a lot more.
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September 17, 2014 7:09pm
Nostradamus

Griff:

d4j would never lie

I believe Big Bruv has a list that’s longer than Rapunzel’s hair.

Of course, as we now know, sometimes D4J prefers to run his comments through the “disappearing act” machine so his lies aren’t permanently on the record.

Speaking of which, Griff, guess who just deleted his comment from the “Two more polls” thread? 🙂
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September 17, 2014 7:10pm
Griff

Cun#liffe is preoccupied with planing how to rearranged his personal budget without the salary for being leader of the losers next month.
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September 17, 2014 7:13pm
dad4justice

“Speaking of which, Griff, guess who just deleted his comment from the “Two more polls” thread?”

Farrar are you Nostradumus? Why delete my comment on the poll thread? What is your agenda David? Do all you blue coats fight dirty?
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September 17, 2014 7:15pm
Griff

dad4justice (8,018 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 6:53 pm

Splendid the Conservatives at 4% .

Own goal
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September 17, 2014 7:16pm
Reid

Polies on debate are both greasing up to Winston.

Personally I want to barf and throw the TV out the window with extreme prejudice.

P.S. Hosking’s on his game but too fast for the average joe. Most won’t be able to follow the switches. He needs to learn how to speak in public.
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September 17, 2014 7:16pm
Nostradamus

Well done Griff – own goal indeed!

And I’ll just post this before D4J “deletes” it:

dad4justice (8,018 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 7:15 pm

“Speaking of which, Griff, guess who just deleted his comment from the “Two more polls” thread?”

Farrar are you Nostradumus? Why delete my comment on the poll thread? What is your agenda David? Do all you blue coats fight dirty?

Words fail me…
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September 17, 2014 7:17pm
dad4justice

I did not delete the comment from the poll thread you pathetic coward Nostra creep.
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September 17, 2014 7:19pm
nasska

….”Speaking of which, Griff, guess who just deleted his comment from the “Two more polls” thread?”…..

I think we may have to start taking file copies when we see one of his comments Nostra. Reminds me a bit of Baity when he wants to book a lead place (& maximise upticks) on a thread.

His ‘modus operandi’ is to post a one line comment then utilise the five minute edit time to put together whatever crap he intended to write.

Desperate men do desperate things to gild their egos. 🙂
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September 17, 2014 7:20pm
Gravelroad

D. Cunliffe lost the plot in the leaders debate.
Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
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September 17, 2014 7:20pm
Griff

You disappoint me d4j here is me saying you never lie and you have now lied to us.
There goes another one ! This is spooky.

dad4justice (8,018 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 7:19 pm

I did not delete the comment from the poll thread you pathetic coward Nostra creep.
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September 17, 2014 7:22pm
nasska

You mean this comment Dad? 🙂

dad4justice (8,018 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 6:53 pm

Splendid the Conservatives at 4% .
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September 17, 2014 7:23pm
Nostradamus

D4J:

dad4justice (8,018 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 7:19 pm

I did not delete the comment from the poll thread you pathetic coward Nostra creep.

Oh yes you did – just like you deleted more than one comment from this thread yesterday.

My personal favourite was the one (now deleted) where you said: (1) you gave me a thumbs-down by mistake and (2) the mistake happened when you reported my comment to DPF as abuse. That comment quickly disappeared after I exposed your hypocrisy (in labelling me a nark – for reporting a much worse comment from Rowan).

And what happened to the other comments on that same thread that you claimed (in yet another comment that is now deleted) had been put into moderation?

Your problem, D4J, is you can’t keep up with your own lies (even within a five-minute editing window).
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September 17, 2014 7:23pm
Reid

Believe Cunners just said wogs aren’t pulling their weight in the export market. Maybe wrong but probably another reason for knifing post-Saturday.
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September 17, 2014 7:23pm
dad4justice

Am I on permanent moderation Mr Farrar? My mentally challenged obsessed stalkers club will be most disappointed they can’t back-stab me day in and day out. Maybe I should issue these cowardly creeps with a d4j doll? Anyway why are you deleting my comments David?

EDIT – FARRAR Can you please explain to that psycho fixated creep Nostradumus who is removing the comments.

Thank you and can you get him some help.
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September 17, 2014 7:25pm
nasska

Nice try Dad! 🙂
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September 17, 2014 7:27pm
Sublime

A modeller who watched helplessly as his $2500 radio-controlled airplane climbed out of sight …

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/10506832/Model-plane-heads-up-up-up-and-away

How long ’til we hear the NSA seized control of the aircraft, forced it to make a pass over Coatesville at dusk then zip out to meet a a nuclear submarine off the coast under the cover of darkness? 😀
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September 17, 2014 7:28pm
dad4justice

I don’t expect a twisted creep like you nasska to believe me.
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September 17, 2014 7:29pm
Gravelroad

Are you old timers just going to use this blog to scrap amongst yourselves and settle scores?
Bit irrelevant for the rest of us who have no idea what you are on about.
Boring.
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September 17, 2014 7:32pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

I look at that “Delete” button that appears after you make a comment (and which remains during the five-minute editing window).

I then think of that scene in The Ring where Samara jumps out of that TV – except, in this case, it’s the “Delete” button chasing D4J!
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September 17, 2014 7:32pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i761fcx4sejhmjx/Wankstain%206%209%2014.jpg?dl=0
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September 17, 2014 7:33pm
dad4justice

To the biggest jellyfish on kiwiblog Nostradumus the spineless backstabber –

dad4justice (8,019 comments) says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 17th, 2014 at 6:53 pm
Splendid the Conservatives at 4% .

Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3
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September 17, 2014 7:35pm
big bruv

Nos

You can delete D4J’s comment?, you lucky sod.

Strange how he keeps denying that he is the minus monster, well all know that he is.
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September 17, 2014 7:35pm
dad4justice

Nostradumus, bigot blouse, narsekisser, gripper verse d4j. Sounds about right again.

What creeps you losers are.

Edit dad4justice (8,019 comments) says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 17th, 2014 at 7:35 pm
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September 17, 2014 7:37pm
Nostradamus

Big Bruv:

I’m fortunate indeed that DPF trusts my judgment.

I can send D4J’s comments to moderation, or if (as is frequently the case) a comment is abusive, I can permanently delete it (saving D4J the trouble of having to delete his own comment within the five-minute editing window).
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September 17, 2014 7:38pm
dad4justice

Oh well I will email David Farrar and find out what is going on.

Edit dad4justice (8,018 comments) says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 17th, 2014 at 7:37 pm
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September 17, 2014 7:44pm
Lucia Maria

Nostradamus,

Have you sent a number of my comments into moderation as well?
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September 17, 2014 7:45pm
Nostradamus

Lucia Maria:

Have you sent a number of my comments into moderation as well?

No. Why do you ask?
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September 17, 2014 7:47pm
big bruv

Nostradamus

Outstanding work my good man. I can see why DPF puts such faith in you.
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September 17, 2014 7:47pm
Lucia Maria

Because on the Putin thread, I have several that are in moderation. One after it’s already been replied to.
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September 17, 2014 7:52pm
Nostradamus

Lucia Maria:

Interesting – nothing to do with me.

I hadn’t looked at that thread previously, but I just have, and there are four comments from you.
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September 17, 2014 7:55pm
dad4justice

Lucia every comment I have made on this blog for two days are in moderation and then vanish but it gives time for my mentally unhinged stalkers and haters to attack my credibility. I guess that’s how these timid keyboard cowards get their kicks in what must be a sad life. Just have a look at the weakling antics of bigot blouse, Nostra , nasska and gripp. I feel very sorry for such spineless creeps.
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September 17, 2014 7:56pm
Lucia Maria

Nostradamus,

Thank you – they are out of moderation now. Were they there because of the “abusive comment” feature?

D4J,

That would be incredibly frustrating.
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September 17, 2014 8:06pm
Nostradamus

Lucia Maria:

Seriously, I didn’t have anything to do with your comments going into moderation, or coming out of it.

D4J:

dad4justice (8,019 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 7:56 pm

Lucia every comment I have made on this blog for two days are in moderation and then vanish but it gives time for my mentally unhinged stalkers and haters to attack my credibility. I guess that’s how these timid keyboard cowards get their kicks in what must be a sad life. Just have a look at the weakling antics of bigot blouse, Nostra , nasska and gripp. I feel very sorry for such spineless creeps.

Not true. See your 6:07pm and 7:24pm comments on yesterday’s thread as just two examples. Your modus operandi is a modified form of “Marry in haste, repent at leisure”. In your case it’s something like “Comment in anger, delete quickly”.
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September 17, 2014 8:08pm
dad4justice

Lucia Marie,

“incredibly frustrating” is the understatement of the year. My hate club are getting more spiteful by the hour. I can only laugh and wonder if my unhinged stalk club would attack me in person., face to face. I have lots of friends in real life and no enemies.

All the best
Peter
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September 17, 2014 8:11pm
Griff

If DPF is moderating comments without notice it would be totally against his usual well demonstrated policy’s
D4j’s comment on the two polls thread was unoffensive and has been posted by someone else since
I have seen one comment deleted without the note of [comment deleted] left by the moderator in its place in my time on kb
That was a intemperate reply I made to a particularly disgusting comment by a homophobic bigot.
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September 17, 2014 8:14pm
dad4justice

“In your case it’s something like “Comment in anger, delete quickly”.

See what I mean Lucia, this Nostradumus chap has a pathological hatred that is boarding on psychopathic. He stalks my every move and lies more often than bigot blouse. I wish I could ask him why all the lies and vindictive behaviour?
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September 17, 2014 8:16pm
Nostradamus

D4J:

He stalks my every move and lies more often than bigot blouse.

Oh this will be fun.

I can produce a thread where you jumped in as soon as I commented.

But go right ahead – give one specific example where I lied.
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September 17, 2014 8:19pm
Johnboy

I hope Lucia’s comments weren’t moderated cause she said them while wearing her leather boots and miniskirt and was showing too much flesh for a good God-fearing Catholic girl! 🙂
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September 17, 2014 8:19pm
dad4justice

“Not true. See your 6:07pm and 7:24pm comments on yesterday’s thread as just two examples”

This is lie number one Nostra the coward. I did not delete them ask Mr Farrar you liar.
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September 17, 2014 8:22pm
Lucia Maria

Nostradamus,

I believe you. It’s all a bit disconcerting. I’m back to 7 comments on that thread now.

I hope Lucia’s comments weren’t moderated cause she said them while wearing her leather boots….

Now, that’s the sort of comment that should be moderated!

No, Johnboy, I was bit agro in my comments. I tend to get that way over Russians, Communism and propaganda. Normally I can keep it together.
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September 17, 2014 8:24pm
Nostradamus

D4J:

dad4justice (8,022 comments) says:
September 17th, 2014 at 8:22 pm

“Not true. See your 6:07pm and 7:24pm comments on yesterday’s thread as just two examples”

This is lie number one Nostra the coward. I did not delete them ask Mr Farrar you liar.

Buzz – incorrect!

– Your lie: “every comment I have made on this blog for two days are in moderation and then vanish”
– My proof of your lie: “Not true. See your 6:07pm and 7:24pm comments on yesterday’s thread as just two examples” (with links to your comments).

Try again.
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September 17, 2014 8:25pm
dad4justice

Go away NostraDUMUS – you are so pathetic. Get a life you sad nitwit.
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September 17, 2014 8:26pm
Viking2

Enjoy

http://screencast.com/t/n1saHxBg
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September 17, 2014 8:27pm
Johnboy

Thank goodness Lucia darling!

Are you really 6′ 0″ in your boots? 🙂
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September 17, 2014 8:29pm
Nostradamus

So who watched the Key-Cunliffe debate?

Greg Presland thinks Cunliffe won. Is anyone surprised?

And the Herald commentators called it a draw. When this happens you know Cunliffe came out ahead.

Overall my impression was that Cunliffe was more confident and much more funny than Key. And he knew his stuff and had a vision. By comparison Key was much better at the snarky stuff but otherwise struggled. And I still have no idea about what National intends to do this term if they are re-elected. And this is scary.

Result? Clear win for Cunliffe but of course I would say this …

I can’t wait to see how Greg spins the Saturday night results!
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September 17, 2014 8:43pm
Johnboy

There’s no doubt Cunliffe is much funnier than Key Nostradamus! 🙂
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September 17, 2014 8:53pm
Reid

So who watched the Key-Cunliffe debate?

Personally I was saddened that at the last opportunity to inform the voters it turned into a shortened-shrift after the most divisive campaign in living memory which deserved in-depth analysis more than at any other time.

If the public needed a signal the media regard them with contempt, this was it.

Accordingly, fuck the media, you are serious scum. You’re shallow, you’re partisan, you’re useless, you’re unprofessional.

The story of this election to me is less about the govt than about the media and whether they’re doing a decent, trained and skilled job of it.

I think you know my opinion.
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September 17, 2014 8:57pm
wf

I watched it with a fascinated horror. Hoskings being useless, Cunliffe squinting out of one eye, and waving Key off. Key sitting there letting all the shenanigans fall where they may, and riding it out. I don’t think I’d play poker with him.

If I hadn’t made up my mind already, this circus would have sorted it out. Thank goodness it was only 30 minutes –
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September 17, 2014 9:02pm
Lindsay Addie

First the debate tonight. A waste of time like the first TVNZ debate, with Hosking very ineffective.

Second the polls. I’m always suspicious of polls and those two today do not take into account the Dotcom Monday night fizzfeast.

Third is a serious comment about Key. He needs for the last two days of the campaign get back on message. Letting the media ask endless questions about this GCSG/spy stuff is the road to nowhere. I cannot fathom why he is letting this happen. It can only be one of three reasons.

1. He’s naïve and too soft with the media.
2. National’s own polling is telling them that talking about it till election day is helping the poll numbers.
3. Key thinks he has to defend his record on the spying stuff because it is damaging (according to their own polling).

The weakness he has a campaigner is he is being far too nice to these trolls in the media. Key is much better than Cunliffe at explaining how complex policy issues are interrelated. He needs to get back to doing just that and how it relates to the future of NZ. Talking about this frankly boring spy stuff isn’t working as far as I can tell.
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September 17, 2014 9:03pm
Johnboy

Reid for Chairman of the Broadcasting Standards Authority say I! 🙂
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September 17, 2014 9:04pm
Nostradamus

Johnboy:

Seeing as you’re into comedy, and Cunliffe-style comedy in particular, I know you’ll appreciate this clip! It’s timeless comedy – and Cunliffe was thoughtful enough to serve up the comedy in a bro accent!

Reid:

I agree that we’ve been poorly-served by the media. My question, though, is how would you address the issue? Will blogs step in and fill the gap?

Wf:

I take it from your comments that you’re voting for someone other than Key or Cunliffe?
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September 17, 2014 9:08pm
Reid

It can only be one of three reasons.

Key’s not a natural politician, like Lange, like Muldoon, like Hulun, etc.

He’s a poll-driven fruitcake.

Like Hulun.

But unlike Hulun, he didn’t spend his lifework learning the intricacies of politics which is why he can’t fake it, like she could.

Key uses polls for survival, because he needs to because “that’s his “secret” to success.” Hulun used polls and probably still does, to take the pulse.
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September 17, 2014 9:09pm
Johnboy

The funniest part was Te Hamura Nikora’s ad popping up at 15 seconds Nostradamus!

How did Sergeant Schultz wangle that! 🙂
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September 17, 2014 9:17pm
Reid

I agree that we’ve been poorly-served by the media. My question, though, is how would you address the issue? Will blogs step in and fill the gap?

I’d have a public enquiry Nosty. I’d get people like Brian Edwards and Hugh Templeton to pontificate on just what a lousy crap job these morons are doing for us with their idiotic foci on all sorts of moronic pursuits and I’d make the state-funded channels cover it ad nauseum until the most disinterested voter finally got it through their sport and celeb-soaked psyche that actually, sometimes, some things are indeed important and even if they don’t want to, they need to pay attention when the scum get out of line.

Make an end-run in other words. Make an end run straight to their audience. Keep making it till signs appeared their audience were getting the message. Then back off.

Repeat as required anytime the media starts getting all mental again.

Never be partisan.

Objective is: how to think, not what to think. With the media as the medium.
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September 17, 2014 9:18pm
Johnboy

But will you have birds with big cleavages fronting the shows that ask the pollies the hard questions Reid?

That’s what we need to get the punters attention! 🙂
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September 17, 2014 9:25pm
Lindsay Addie

JB asked “But will you have birds with big cleavages fronting the shows that ask the pollies the hard questions/”

Surely you’re not thinking of something like this close to bedtime?? 😉

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKFY41HCKA
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September 17, 2014 9:34pm
Nookin

Tv3 on dotcom was interesting. First the first time a news medium put him under the microscope and he did not like it one little bit.
The employees seemed plausible enough but were given a reasonably easy time of it. Herr Com, however was seething underneath. It sounds like he had no regard whatsoever for NZ employment law and even less for his employees. His position over the certificate of employment was sheer and unbridled vindictiveness.

This guy is nasty.
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September 17, 2014 9:35pm
Nostradamus

Lindsay Addie:

That’s hilarious – I doubt many guys (including Johnboy) would remember a single thing she said about the news!
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September 17, 2014 9:40pm
Lindsay Addie

Nosty,

Well for some reason she’s much more interesting than Winston Peters or Russel Norman: 🙂
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September 17, 2014 9:42pm
Johnboy

Was she reading the news? I never noticed! 🙂

JK should get her to explain GCSB surveillance to the populace 🙂
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September 17, 2014 9:44pm
Lindsay Addie

Actually she could hold a press conference about the GCSB stuff. Be interesting to see which NZ media hack loses it first.
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September 17, 2014 9:50pm
Nostradamus

This format (from a US perspective) strikes me as a much better format for election debates than what TV1 and TV3 have served up.

One possible amendment to the format for the punters watching at home: have the well-endowed newsreader asking the questions!
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September 17, 2014 9:52pm
flipper

Nookin….

Quit agree.

I had sympathy for him over the OTT raid by the Molesworth Street Cowboys.

But that has gone, gone gone…. and will never return.
Tonight showed him to be nasty Jabba-like blob…somewhat, I regret to say, on the lines of Goering.
That upsets me because the German folk that I know, and know quite well, are nothing like those bastards.

I hope Davison has security for his likely exorbitant “costs”. Dotslob is Virginia bound…….. and that brings us back to my old mate Johnno Banks. I suggest, with due deference to the Judiciary, that you made a serious misjudgement Wylie J. Time for you to resign. No?
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September 17, 2014 9:54pm
Nookin

It would be rather interesting to see what wage records he keeps. I suspect that he may struggle with this particular concept of NZ employment law.
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September 17, 2014 9:59pm
RRM

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/379514/news/weirdandwacky/suicide-by-croc-thai-woman-perishes-after-leap-into-crocodile-pond

Suicide by croc. Well hard.
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September 17, 2014 10:00pm
Lindsay Addie

Going by KDC’s criminal record he struggles with most concepts of any sort of law.
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September 17, 2014 10:01pm

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