General Debate 23 September 2014

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IGM

Cannot wait till the memos between McCarten, Cunliffe”s”, Hager, Bradbury, Dotcom, Harre, Harawira, and Campbell are released . . . all hell will break loose.
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September 23, 2014 8:04am
hj

John Key wants to be remember for being Helen Clark

What do you want to be remembered for. Going back to that main point I think it was Muldoon who famously said said I want to leave the country in no worse condition than I found it, Isn’t that a low ambition, Yes I want to leave the country in better condition than I found it and if there’s something (I genuinely believe)

It would be lifting our confidence to a certain degree about how we see our selves in the world and

what we think we are capable of achieving. Now I think individually there is masses of ambition

there but can we actually take that and convert to take the opportunity that sits out there.

And I always thought what was happening in the opposition of politics (of course they would oppose national, that’s their job actually apart from everything else) but it was a bit negative about out place in the world. So we played a bit about whether people coming here was a good or bad thing whether people should invest here was a good or bad thing, or whether we have a trade agreement with parts of Asia was a good or bad thing, but actually in my mind, the reason that I
want to say yes to those things is because they are the opportunities that reflect our opportunities to both get wealthier (which is all about what you can do with that money) and then ultimately the opportunities about the opportunities for Kiwis. I’d like New Zealanders to feel (after my time as Prime Minister) they have become more confident outward looking nation more multicultural.

http://www.tv3.co.nz/CAMPBELL-LIVE-Monday-September-22-2014/tabid/3692/articleID/103019/MCat/2908/Default.aspx
Actually there was half hearted (one foot in. one foot out) opposition to “people coming here” and the effect on NZr’s with zero from Green-left.
He is at odds with Treasury paper 14-10
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September 23, 2014 8:05am
kowtow

Five years for mansalughter! With an extensive criminal record and propensity for violence.

Got credit for remorse but swore at the victims family in court.What was the judge thinking?

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/316805/killer-snaps-victims-family
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September 23, 2014 8:06am
kowtow

In other news from the south, more dirty politics,which won’t be given the hyped up treatment by the lefty compliant MSM.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/316796/attacks-two-national-party-offices-unfortunate
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September 23, 2014 8:08am
Nukuleka

Disappointed that John Key is determined to push ahead with his desire to change the flag. The last thing we need after what we’ve been through over the last couple of months is another circus- and that’s what this will be. A substantial number of hard core National supporters will not be happy with Key over this and will not be prepared to accept some sort of ‘marketing brand’ flag. Why create acrimony when there is no great push for any change to the flag in the first place? What if 51% support a change and 49% don’t? That’s a recipe for harmony, sure.

Incidentally, if the flag is a post colonial relic, why stop there? The name of our country is no indicator of our place in the South Pacific either- it too is a post colonial relic. ‘New Zealand’? What the hell is our connection to Zealand and why are we its new version? Hold a referendum to find a new name. Makes just as much sense a new flag.
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September 23, 2014 8:13am
oldpark

Heard the woman known as Materialistic Turei from the no electorates seats list Green Party.Turei had the temerity to put the boot into the Epsom Electorate seat winner ACTs Mr Seymour.She has the gall, to even comment on some benefit, John Key might bestow on one of his coalition partners.Talk about a Labour Party shake up.A shake up for the communist run Green Party with her and Russel Abnormal calling the shots.They will sit on their taxpayer funded backsides,to the tune of $200,000 minimum each year,pontificating on what they would do if they had conned the NZ people into giving them misguided power.They now have three more years to fine tune their Inheritance/Death taxes,as well as knee capping the farmers,the back bone of NZs economy.Green Party ,they have been around for close to twenty years in NZ ,Never been in Government,even though they tried to do a sneaky backdoor deal with Dotcon,hoping he might have a bit more influence in the General Election.He did, but not how the Green Party and Mr Norman ,had hoped.A shakeup for the waste of space Green Party is way overdue.
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September 23, 2014 8:15am
Griff

The Otago daily times is probably the best MSM outlet in the country at present. Two ticks… for balance and for its knack of being at the forefront at disseminating actual news .
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September 23, 2014 8:16am
ross411

Nukuleka (302 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 8:13 am
Disappointed that John Key is determined to push ahead with his desire to change the flag. The last thing we need after what we’ve been through over the last couple of months is another circus- and that’s what this will be. A substantial number of hard core National supporters will not be happy with Key over this and will not be prepared to accept some sort of ‘marketing brand’ flag. Why create acrimony when there is no great push for any change to the flag in the first place? What if 51% support a change and 49% don’t? That’s a recipe for harmony, sure.

What if only 30% of the enrolled public vote, which gives 15% of the population making a decision for the rest, to change the flag? Is that a mandate to do so?
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September 23, 2014 8:17am
hj

Labour leader David Cunliffe has taken his hardest line yet against immigrants, blaming them for rising house prices.

It follows a 3 News-Reid Research poll which shows almost two-thirds of voters say immigration should be restricted.

“It would take 80 percent of our housing supply just to accommodate this year’s migrants – and National is doing nothing,” says Mr Cunliffe.

The poll shows 62 percent of voters want tighter restrictions on immigration, while only 35 percent say leave it.

“I don’t think taking away the welcome mat is the right thing to do,” says Prime Minister John Key.

In the past year 71,210 immigrants arrived in New Zealand – the highest in 11 years.
“We reckon immigration should be at a steady moderate level – that’s where our housing, our schools and our hospitals can cope,” says Mr Cunliffe.

But it’s Auckland’s housing market where immigrants are really getting the blame.

“Barfoot & Thompson, top 25 agents – 24 are Asian, so who are they selling to?” says NZ First leader Winston Peters.

Unsurprisingly, 84 percent of NZ First voters want immigration restricted. Sixty-eight percent of Labour voters agree, along with 58 percent of Green Party voters.

Despite Mr Key being on the wrong side of public opinion, he won’t budge.

“New Zealand is a country that has been built on migration. We’ve done very well out of it and I think we should be very cautious about taking knee-jerk steps,” he says.

http://www.3news.co.nz/David-Cunliffe-blames-migrants-for-housing-crisis/tabid/1607/articleID/345855/Default.aspx#ixzz33jj2pF7w
The Standard

the right fear me
28 May 2014 at 7:23 am

DC was playing down imigration on the news last night….i like DC but he,s sending such mixed signals you have to wonder whose showing him how to blow a whistle……I know i,m being blunt but I feel this is a sad road to go down……
[lprent: This commenter has been on my watchlist as a probable right astroturfer for some time. He parrots anti-cunliffe lines with no argument underlying them. You’d think that they could find someone with better tactics. ]
One Anonymous Bloke 2.1
28 May 2014 at 7:30 am
I know I’m being blunt but your concern sounds false and insincere, and not only that, you seem to be parroting right wing lies.
Polly wanna cracker?
David H 2.1.1
28 May 2014 at 8:03 am
Cunliffe on Brekkie TV3 this morning finally got the message out that the immigration thing was a beat up. And all started because Blinglish lost the chapter on housing.
karol 2.1.1.1 [Greens]
28 May 2014 at 9:11 am
Glad to hear it. Can’t find the video of it online.
David H 2.1.1.1.1
28 May 2014 at 9:58 am
Here you go Karol.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Labour-not-anti-immigration—Cunliffe/tabid/370/articleID/346076/Default.aspx
karol 2.1.1.1.1.1
28 May 2014 at 10:04 am
Thanks, yes. Just found and watched it. Good interview – though his focus was on everyone owning their own home – nothing on state housing and affordable private rentals.

http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-28052014/

Burying the wishes of NZ for property investors and a liberal elite.
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September 23, 2014 8:18am
ross411

oldpark (266 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 8:15 am
Heard the woman known as Materialistic Turei from the no electorates seats list Green Party.Turei had the temerity to put the boot into the Epsom Electorate seat winner ACTs Mr Seymour.She has the gall to even comment on some benefit John Key might bestow on one of his coalition partners.Talk about a Labour Party shake up.A shake up for the communist run Green Party with her and Russel Abnormal calling the shots.They will sit on their taxpayer funded backsides,to the tune of $200,000 minimum each year,pontificating on what they would do if they had conned the NZ people to give them misguided power.They now have three more years to fine tune their Inheritance/Death taxes,as well as knee capping the farmers,the back bone of NZs economy.Green Party ,they have been around for close to twenty years in NZ ,Never been in Government,even though they tried to do a sneaky backdoor deal with Dotcon,hoping he might have a bit more influence in the General Election.He did, but not how the Green Party and Mr Norman ,had hoped.

Sounds like a lovely gig for someone who likes telling people what to do, but could never get a real job of consequence.
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September 23, 2014 8:18am
Lance

Herald cartoon was funny this morning (for a change)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11329478
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September 23, 2014 8:19am
hj

Seymour will be looking forward to high rises in Epsom. Good enough for goose, good enough for gander.
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September 23, 2014 8:22am
Newbie

Does anyone know where I can find the statistics on the those who were enrolled to vote in the election, but didn’t, electorate by electorate?
Thanks.
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September 23, 2014 8:24am
Griff

Look left for high risers HJ its Chocho Brown pushing the rail corridors for intensive development.
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September 23, 2014 8:25am
hj

Key had no intention of talking to Winston. He was telling a little white lie (not to stretch a point).
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September 23, 2014 8:25am
EAD

Interesting article in the UK’s Daily Telegraph examining how the Wizard of Oz is an allegory to US monetary policy and how the federal reserve got the USA of the Gold Standard (real money) eventually onto the fiat money standard where money literally “grew on trees” in order to fund all the Socialists wet dreams:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11096578/The-Wizard-of-Oz-a-tale-of-monetary-politics.html?frame=3039258

Gold is finite, precious and not easy to fake. It is a store of value.

This goes against socialist make believe that fiat money grows on trees and nobody has to acknowledge wealth or the causes of wealth. Socialists (like Stephie) are well aware that money doesn’t grow on trees, however they purposefully push this agenda to undermine the capitalist system. Don’t underestimate your enemy, they are well aware of what they are doing.
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September 23, 2014 8:25am
IGM

hj: You are a real left-wing loser . . . try getting a real job and support yourself!
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September 23, 2014 8:26am
EAD

Further to the above, the central bank usury system is a scam designed to chain us to unpayable debts, tax us to pay for it and eventually bankrupt us reclaiming our assets.

Left/right is nonsense its the monetary system that’s wrecking this country, the US, Europe, everywhere with a central bank.

We either take back the money power, issue it ourselves free of the banks or are their slaves, you cannot serve two masters.
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September 23, 2014 8:28am
Keeping Stock

@ hj – you’ve banged on about immigration and house prices all year. The people have spoken, and no one is listening to you. Give it a rest, for everyone’s sake 😀
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September 23, 2014 8:29am
kowtow

griff

ODT balance. Have a read of yesterdays’ editorial.

“That, of course, will not bother Mr Key. But while he is rapidly becoming one of this country’s most ”popular” prime ministers, there remains a gulf before he can go down in history as a ”great” prime minister. If that is Mr Key’s ambition, he is going to have to show that his role is, indeed, to serve all New Zealanders.

He and his Cabinet will have to strive to care for families, to try to ensure the poor are supported and not consigned to a demeaning and destructive underclass future. As well, alongside pursuit of economic development, this Government is going to have to protect the environment.”

Are families not cared for,are the poor not supported,is the environment being raped?

THe ODT has bought into the MSM thme that Aotearoa is overrun by poverty and somehow it’s someone else’s fault.
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September 23, 2014 8:31am
Newbie

Drat. Missed the edit time out.

Repeated for clarification:

Does anyone know where I can find the statistics on the number of those who were enrolled to vote in the election, but didn’t, electorate by electorate?
Thanks.
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September 23, 2014 8:32am
Kea

There is no such emotion as “offended”. There is only anger and a craving to control others. Real emotions, like: love, joy, melancholy, sadness … are not generally accompanied by demands to restrict the activities of others.

Even if such an emotion as “offended” was real, so what ? It is purely subjective and offence is created in the mind of the one demanding others comply with their demands. It is also totally unprovable. All laws that make reference to “offence” should be purged.

“A University of Canterbury student club has offended “everyone possible” with cars and costumes poking fun at women, Islam, Malaysia Airlines and the deadly ebola crisis.

The RoUndie 500, organised by the Engineering Society (Ensoc), has caused a stir with newly-formed feminist club FemSoc after its members saw a car showing images of about 30 women ranked by supposed desirability.

There were also teams using themes around ebola, Malaysia Airlines and Islam.

“They’re just offending everyone possible,” Moot said.

The feminist group would be taking their complaint to the students’ association and university management.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10531207/Student-costumes-offensive-to-everyone”
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September 23, 2014 8:37am
kowtow

nuku

Couldn’t agree with you more on the sideshow flag referendum. I mean why have a ref when it’s not needed when they ignore a ref on smacking and should have had one on mariage!

Talking of colonial relics, well our parliamentaryt sytem is one! Should we ditch that for some “sexy” new marketing brand?

Key is a succesful politician but by golly he’s a shallow one.
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September 23, 2014 8:37am
smttc

hj, why don’t you just shut it for a while. Everyone is heartily sick and tired of your trolling and rabbiting on about housing and immigration.
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September 23, 2014 8:37am
IGM

Where is the Public Dog? Hopefully taking the election results really bad, it deserves it!
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September 23, 2014 8:38am
flipper

The socialist Fairfax team at the Dominion Post is at it again this morning making the same mistakes, and providing undeniable evidence that they are as much out of touch with the public’s view of Labour/Green policies, as the parties themselves are. Cunliffe’s absurd election night speech was another nail in Labour’s coffin.

Like the activists from the left, the DomPost is arguing that they know best – that the voting public does not understand, and if they did, they would vote for Labour. There is only one group that knows what is best for them is that rather obscure group – the voters. And because the DP and the delusional left have failed see, I note that more than 75% of those voting, voted against labour. They are saying that the majority is wrong and the minority right?

For Labour to recover they need much introspection, they need to become relevant to mainstream thinking, and they need to return to the middle. The lesson learned from all western democratic elections is “he who controls the middle, wins the game.”
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September 23, 2014 8:39am
Ashley Schaeffer

Spot on Kea. Good post. I am sick to death of hearing what seems like every day about the next person offended by something or other. Cultural Marxism pure and simple.
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September 23, 2014 8:40am
hj

Stats Chat on the Alpine Fault

Based on this 8000-year history, it seems that the Alpine fault is relatively regular in how often it has earthquakes: more so than the San Andreas Fault in California, for example. Since the fault has major earthquakes about every 330 years, and the most recent one was 295 years ago, it’s likely to go off soon. Of course, ‘soon’ here doesn’t mean “before the Super 15 final”; the time scales are a bit longer than that.

http://www.statschat.org.nz/2012/06/28/alpine-fault-can-we-panic-now/
What is keys energy policy given the extreme shaking will have down flow effects for years in the hydro lakes
http://www.orc.govt.nz/Information-and-Services/Natural-Hazards/Great-Alpine-Fault-Earthquake/
Sciblogs

We must remember that while large parts of Christchurch were devastated by the recent earthquakes, one only has to drive an hour in any direction from the CBD to find areas that appear to be completely uneffected by the earthquakes; there simply isn’t any evidence of significant earthquake damage beyond about a 50 km radius from Christchurch City.

This will not be the case following a great (Mw 8) earthquake. An Alpine Fault earthqauke will be a very different beast than the Canterbury earthquakes, with a resulting truely national-scale disaster of much greater impact than any historical earthquake in New Zealand. The entire South Island will be effected in some way, with indirect, but profound impacts to the entire country.

While the intensity of shaking felt in Christchurch during an Alpine Fault great earthquake may be similar to that felt during the Darfield earthquake, the duration will be much longer (2-3 minutes compared to 40 seconds), so extensive liquefaction should be expected again.

New construction in Christchurch should benefit from updated building standards and a much-improved understanding of the effects of ground shaking on liquefiable soils, but other communities which are relatively distant from the Alpine Fault (e.g. Invercargill, Dunedin, Timaru, Nelson, Blenheim) are also at least partially built on liquefiable soils. Assets built on susceptible soils will likely suffer some damage during prolonged moderate ground shaking, especially unreinforced masonry buildings and underground utilities.

http://sciblogs.co.nz/shaken-not-stirred/2013/11/20/the-alpine-fault-is-new-zealand-prepared-post-1-of-2/
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September 23, 2014 8:40am
Griff

http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2014/index.html
Statistics The Electoral Commission aims to have the official results published on this site by 2.00pm on Saturday 4 October 2014. Detailed information to be presented to the House of Representatives (E9), including allocation of list seats, voting place information and special vote statistics, is expected to be available on this site in the week commencing 13 October 2014.

full results not in yet but a spread sheet some time and
http://www.elections.org.nz/research-statistics/enrolment-statistics-electorate Plus
http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2014/electorateindex.html
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September 23, 2014 8:40am
flipper

smttc (733 comments) says:

September 23rd, 2014 at 8:37 am

hj, why don’t you just shut it for a while
****

Amen to that.
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September 23, 2014 8:46am
Ashley Schaeffer

The wife and kids woke me up sometime between 2.30 and 3.00am this morning. Said that there was a bit of a jolt (we’re in Kapiti). Didn’t feel it myself. I think things would have to be dropping on me head to wake me up at the hour.
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September 23, 2014 8:47am
kowtow

Talking of left wing bias in the media and the ODT balance……

try this one,it was a screaming big headline in the middle of the page,accompanied with a huge photo of a cup ( presumably of potentially endangered) coffee.

And a much smaller headline below that story was the real business news ,about the market reaction to the election and electricity generators share rise.

Balance…….yeah right!

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/316766/union-bashing-expected
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September 23, 2014 8:58am
smttc

Ashley, the earthquake was centred at Pongaroa on the other side of the Island.
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September 23, 2014 8:59am
Newbie

Thanks Griff, for the 8.40am post. Will wait for the official results.
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September 23, 2014 9:00am
hj

Keeping Stck
@ hj – you’ve banged on about immigration and house prices all year. The people have spoken, and no one is listening to you.
…..
(Next to) no one in the news media is saying it.
The most I have heard on Radio NZ is Jim Moira “there are people who think immigration isn’t a good thing” and Mike Williams guardedly suggesting house prices might be associated with immigration.
Apart from that you would have to troll through all the media outlets and do an analysis which is beyond my scope. I don’t think I need make that case.
Then there are the main parties National, UF Act Green pro immigration. Labour, equivocal which leaves the under performing (apart from Winston) NZ First, but the media is hostile to NZ First (on most occasions).

The people have not spoken until a. they have heard the case
b. been asked

Is there a case?
The Savings Working Group says there is as does Treasury Paper 14-10 as does the Australian Productivity Commission.
What we are seeing here is domination of the public mind e.g “imi what?” Andrea Vance.
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September 23, 2014 9:00am
hj

Mars was once awash with water. With the arrival of Nasa’s Maven mission at the red planet, we may finally be close to working out where it all went
http://www.theguardian.com/science/across-the-universe/2014/sep/22/nasa-maven-spacecraft-mars-missing-water
Pretty smart these sdientists
Why oh why do they get it wrong on global warming? 😉
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September 23, 2014 9:05am
hj

hj (6,862 comments) says:

Criticism? I suppose you could say immigration was discussed in the election but it was a change of position for Labour and they were equivocal. The Greens said immigrants didn’t affect house prices.
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September 23, 2014 9:07am
Lindsay Addie

First Paddy Gower on RadioLive this morning ripping out what is left of Labour’s innards:
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/AUDIO-Paddy-Gower-with-The-Post-Election-Political-scene/tabid/506/articleID/55242/Default.aspx

Second some keywords and thoughts on the parties post election:

National: Stakeholder engagement. Key has already identified hubris, so this is a biggie. Also need to get off to a sound start in the first 12 months of the new term. The last two administrations (National and Labour) got into trouble early on in the third terms and never recovered.

Labour: Change management, integration management, recruitment, finance, leadership, strategy and operations management, marketing. Is there hope or is the mother of all bust-ups about to happen?

New Zealand First: Change management. Winston is surely getting closer to the end of his career. Ran a great campaign but other MP’s want to lay the foundations for some sort of working relationship with National.

Greens: Strategic planning, marketing. Do they really want to be in opposition for ever?

Conservatives: Marketing and strategy. Grown the vote for the second consecutive election. The marketing mix isn’t quite right.

ACT and United Future: Rejuvenation or wind-up. Unless they can become relevant again it could be kaput.
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September 23, 2014 9:09am
flash2846

I think I see why the PM has put changing our flag on the agenda now. We will likely only just get a flag representative of New Zealand instead of what we could expect with the changing population ten years down the track. Something Aotearoa no doubt, then to be changed to something Islam.
For this reason I back the move now.
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September 23, 2014 9:10am
Nukuleka

Further to my earlier post about the flag. John Key is in a lose/ lose situation by pushing for this ‘binding referendum’. If he fails and the majority vote for the retention of the current flag he will be accused of wasting taxpayers’ money and diverting the public away from more important issues. If he is successful and there is a majority for a new ‘branding’ flag it is likely to be a narrow majority from a low poll turn-out. He will be accused of hypocrisy for not having followed the overwhelming majority votes in earlier referenda and he will have alienated a significant number of his core conservative National supporters. He wants a ‘symbol’ that we can all wear on our backpacks when we go travelling. We already have one- the kiwi, just as the Australians have the kangaroo.

It is a foolish path he is taking and Joyce/ English and co should be advising him against it. His political nous is deserting him on this one. No wonder he wants to get it done and dusted in 2015. He knows that if it all goes pear-shaped he will need another 2 years to mop up the mess he’s created before the 2017 election.
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September 23, 2014 9:14am
dime

HJ – if you ever post anything not related to immigration and housing, can you put this up top

NOT ONE OF MY NORMAL POSTS

then ill read it. id hate to miss something interesting you post.
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September 23, 2014 9:25am
Redbaiter

“Everyone is heartily sick and tired of”

Who the hell are you to speak for everyone?

You’re a socialist whitebait but you sure as hell don’t speak for me.
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September 23, 2014 9:25am
Redbaiter

The lesson learned from all western democratic elections is “he who controls the middle, wins the game.”

Yes Flipper, but the question you and every other socialist mungbean who quotes that platitude refuses to address is “who or what creates the political perceptions of the middle?”
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September 23, 2014 9:30am
G152

The left leaning ‘reporters’ are gutting their pre-election heroes.
Not very supportive are they
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September 23, 2014 9:39am
nasska

….” “who or what creates the political perceptions of the middle?””…..

Easy. The fruitcakes at both ends of the political spectrum. The average person who has to live in the world shaped by politics looks at both of them, craps then votes centre right or centre left.
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September 23, 2014 9:45am
ross411

G152 (279 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 9:39 am
The left leaning ‘reporters’ are gutting their pre-election heroes.
Not very supportive are they

Does a pack of wild dogs turn on one of their own who has weakened pack status or injury, yet pretends to leadership?
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September 23, 2014 10:00am
Ross12

flipper @ 8.39

Well said. It is not only Labour and the Greens who need to be making big reviews of their positions and future but also the MSM.
Fairfax and APN are in for a thrashing if they continue on their current path. They are leaving the market wide open for a more balanced and intelligent online news outlet. I think blogs are in their infancy, but will grow and develop very rapidly in the next few years.
Similarly, there is a space for an online news outlet that buys a range of stories from independent journalists / writers / opinion makers etc. to make up a weekly ( for a start) online paper –I suppose this is what Huffington Post is but HP is not well balanced and seems to me to have become too big. There is a rural online service ( sorry forgotten its name) which advertises on radio which is going this way –has a wide range of topics from politics, sport , business as well as the farming basics.
All it will take for Fairfax or APN to be in trouble will be for one or two of the big advertisers to walk ( a super market or the big electronic/houseware retailers. )
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September 23, 2014 10:15am
Redbaiter

That’s funny- a lunatic hillbilly from the ends of the earth and who derives most of his income from the state and who suffers from obsessive compulsive disorder in irrationally but constantly believing he is under threat of being abducted and controlled by Christians and who simultaneously suffers from such a bad dose of smug self righteousness it would put the most ardent evangelist to shame postures as someone who can speak for the “average” voter.

Thanks for the laff Narsekissa. Deluded hillbilly.
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September 23, 2014 10:17am
Nukuleka

I see we are into the childish ad hominem Standard type attacks very early in the day. One or two folk into the cooking sherry a bit earlier in the day than usual.
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September 23, 2014 10:23am
Griff

Gee thanks redbaiter
It always makes my inbuilt smugometer rise when the insights I post of your behavior rattle around for a while in the echo chamber between your ears only to reemerge later in an inappropriate and deluded attack on some one else.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
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September 23, 2014 10:44am
itstricky

The left leaning ‘reporters’ are gutting their pre-election heroes.
Not very supportive are they

Does a pack of wild dogs turn on one of their own who has weakened pack status or injury, yet pretends to leadership?

Hold on a sec. Isn’t the MSM a massive left wing conspiracy? That’s what I hear here every second day. Oh, I see Ross has another conspiracy reason to explain it.
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September 23, 2014 10:45am
Kea

The whole flag debate is not a thing I feel strongly about. However I really like this and would support it 100%j

This is the only offering that has taken my attention right away. It looks bright and modern, while still acknowledging tradition and history.

It’s a real beauty 🙂

Let’s use the best of both for new flag

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/assignments/what-should-be-on-nzs-flag/10532780/Lets-use-the-best-of-both-for-new-flag
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September 23, 2014 10:49am
tom hunter

Hold on a sec. Isn’t the MSM a massive left wing conspiracy? That’s what I hear here every second day.

Conspiracy? No, a conspiracy would be a small group of people operating behind the scenes in secret. By contrast the likes of John Campbell are out in the open.

As far as them gutting the likes of Cunliffe that does not at all contradict the idea that most MSM journalists and editors lean left. After all, the prime killers of communists have been communists.
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September 23, 2014 10:53am
Griff

Good flag kea
Very different for anywhere else in the world, Doesn’t pick up the boof head black, Acknowledges our history and position in the pacific ,manages to looks forward.
I would vote for it over most the options I have seen.
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September 23, 2014 10:57am
ross411

Kea (12,048 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 10:49 am
The whole flag debate is not a thing I feel strongly about. However I really like this and would support it 100%j

This is the only offering that has taken my attention right away. It looks bright and modern, while still acknowledging tradition and history.

It looks tacky. I don’t mind the basic concept, but as is it looks like something a real estate agent would hang up.
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September 23, 2014 11:02am
Griff

ross411
Drop the red it makes it too busy?
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September 23, 2014 11:03am
ross411

Griff (7,398 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 11:03 am
ross411
Drop the red it makes it too busy?

I don’t mind the red. I think the shape of the fern and the cheap overcoloured nylon look do it no favours. If it looked more natural, I’d probably feel a lot more positive about it. Perhaps it is the red, but I think the colour contrast in general is an improvement over all blue.
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September 23, 2014 11:11am
ciaron

Having a bad day?
Sick of waiting for other people to get their act together and get the job done?

I sure was until a colleague sent me this link: http://www.419eater.com/html/letters.htm

I’ve found my happy place 🙂
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September 23, 2014 11:15am
Kea

Doesn’t pick up the boof head black

Agreed Griff.

The whole Black thing is about marketing and advertising a brand. It, and its violent booze soaked culture, has no place on our national flag.
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September 23, 2014 11:15am
wreck1080

Seriposis claims IRD are demanding child support for his 19 year old son.

Don’t get it.
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September 23, 2014 11:16am
Griff

The postilion of the southern cross are odd to far towards the boundary
A less styled less dominant silver fern .
Red fades badly to pink.
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September 23, 2014 11:22am
ross411

Griff (7,399 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 11:22 am
The postilion of the southern cross are odd to far towards the boundary
A less styled less dominant silver fern .
Red fades badly to pink.

Good point on the red. I’ve got a confederate flag (like the not as young of us used to see on Dukes of Hazard) that used to be red, now it’s a faded orange/ginger.
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September 23, 2014 11:44am
dime

This is from STUFF:

RENTERS FOR LIFE: Young people are applying for fewer mortgages, instead borrowing up a storm on the likes of personal loans and credit cards.

LMAO so im meant to feel bad cause these losers go on shopping sprees?

Dimes chick is 24, currently looking for a house to buy. She will rent it out. No help from anyone. it aint that hard.
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September 23, 2014 12:27pm
Viking2

When ate the Nats. going to put and end to this lkind of crap from the ERA. Disgusting stuff from a sloppy mediator.

The authority ordered Mitre 10 to pay Weber $5541 as reimbursement of lost wages and $3333 for humiliation, loss of dignity and injury to his feelings.

His time there was incident-free until an eight-month period in 2013, when there were four complaints from staff and customers about his behaviour.

The first was an allegation of sexual harassment towards a staff member, which was resolved due to insufficient evidence to support disciplinary action against Weber.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/10533189/Mitre-10-Mega-worker-unjustifiably-sacked
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September 23, 2014 12:29pm
Viking2

Dimes chick is 24, currently looking for a house to buy. She will rent it out. No help from anyone. it aint that hard.

Bloody cradle snatcher.
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September 23, 2014 12:30pm
ross411

Good pointer dime. Here’s the link.
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September 23, 2014 12:37pm
ross411

Viking2 (11,370 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 12:29 pm
When ate the Nats. going to put and end to this lkind of crap from the ERA. Disgusting stuff from a sloppy mediator.

Under Labour the victim of his alleged harassment would be able to claim rape without evidence, and the mediator would have to take it at face value with the burden of presumed guilt on the alleged harasser. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
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September 23, 2014 12:40pm
ross411

dime (9,801 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 12:27 pm
This is from STUFF:

RENTERS FOR LIFE: Young people are applying for fewer mortgages, instead borrowing up a storm on the likes of personal loans and credit cards.

I’ll list some of the choice comments from the article. It’s heartening to see that the voice of reason is winning out there.

The top voted comment and rising:

Jeko1 hour ago
I’m Gen Y and have a house. Guess saving and budgeting is getting too har…. ooh look new iPhone released

Hard “facts” laid down by a diehard fundamentalist from The Standard:

Lanthanide32 minutes ago
Nah, they won’t be renters for life, because when the baby boomers retire they’ll want to unlock the equity in their rental properties. That means they’ll have to sell them. Starting in about 10 years time there’s going to be a sustained excess of houses available on the market.

Right, there it is all laid out for us. We should give up on the dream of owning a house, and wait 10 years. Lathanide will reimburse us the difference in price, should this master scheme not pan out. Right? Lathanide? Lathanide? …tumbleweed…

I don’t expect this guy voted Labour:

keenhunter20 minutes ago
I’m 21. just a mechanic. worked 55 hours a week since I was 17. Have plenty for a house deposit without using my kiwisaver. Left home at 17 and haven’t had a cent from parents. I just don’t booze and party my money away like most young people and students yet I still have plenty fun.
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September 23, 2014 12:59pm
dime

“Dimes chick is 24, currently looking for a house to buy. She will rent it out. No help from anyone. it aint that hard.

Bloody cradle snatcher.”

im only 38 😀
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September 23, 2014 1:15pm
Kea

dime, you are okay, for a wanker prefect 😉
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September 23, 2014 1:18pm
dime

kea – im no snitch!

I may be Kiwiblogs MVP but im not a mod.
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September 23, 2014 1:20pm
Kea

Yeah I know.

I have emailed DPF telling him about the issue, after demonstrating by removing one of Lucies comment last night.

The only thing Kea hates more than narks is censorship.
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September 23, 2014 1:23pm
Griff

Dime dont tell d4j at lest thinking you are are mod gave the poor old sod a hope.
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September 23, 2014 1:31pm
dime

Griff – im not loved by D4J.

still kills me my handle Dime4Justice never made it past DPF
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September 23, 2014 1:38pm
kowtow

This is really big and our media who prattle on endlessly about GCSB etc say squat.

http://www.interest.co.nz/business/72064/nz-banks-baulking-global-fatca-style-initiative-combat-tax-evasion-lobby-group-says-l
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September 23, 2014 1:46pm
stephieboy

How Conspiracy theory works via this type of feedback loop as per tT M link below re Flight MH 17

Russia Today and related Kremlin controlled bases media agencies blame Kiev for the downing. >>>>>>> Conspiracy website like Global Research copy and paste and/ or repeat t>>>>>>>> David Icke >>>>> Zero Hedge >>>> Paul Craig Roberts >>>>>>> Information Clearing House >>>>> other Conspiracy sites >>>> More RT and Kremlin based propaganda rubber stamped and unchallenged by RT etc >>>> back to Western based conspiracy websites>>>>>>> and so on …

The key is to disengage all critical thinking putting your own biases and prejudices ahead of evidence and facts .

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1459688&p=17&topic=7

Note especially posts # 812, 815 and 825, 828.
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September 23, 2014 1:49pm
kowtow

While I welcome action against ISIL ,the west should be working with Assad on this.

Anyway I hope evry last foreign terrorist gets take out by this.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/09/us-begins-bombing-isil-positions-syria-201492313622252650.html
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September 23, 2014 1:49pm
stephieboy

kowtow, Basher all Assad lost all credibility back in 2011 when he cold bloodily decided to shoot dead protestors . These kind of actions are what triggered the civil wear and not “outsiders ” like Israelis/ Jews / the US etc.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/22/syria-protests-forces-shoot
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September 23, 2014 2:07pm
Bovver

Labour in the grips of an all out civil war, it only DC had done the honorable thing and fallen on his sword, still good times for the centre/right.
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September 23, 2014 2:17pm
kowtow

Nothing to see here ,move along please.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/qatar/11110931/How-Qatar-is-funding-the-rise-of-Islamist-extremists.html
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September 23, 2014 2:36pm
stephieboy

kowtow, keep yourself informed and up to date for a change,

U.S., Allies Step Up Efforts to Choke Off Islamic State’s Funding
Campaign Aims to Block Oil Revenues, Deny Extremists’ Access to Global Financial System,

http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-allies-step-up-efforts-to-choke-off-islamic-states-funding-1410307008
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September 23, 2014 2:47pm
Kea

“U.S., Allies Step Up Efforts to Choke Off Islamic State’s Funding” 😆

Obama seeks $500 million to train, equip Syrian rebels
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-seeks-500-million-to-train-equip-syrian-rebels/

stuuuupidboy, Obama sponsored these jihadists from the time they invaded and attacked Syria. He was warned he was funding terrorists, but did so anyway. Over a year ago Iraq was pleading with Obama to stop the funding, fearing they would invade Iraq. This is all Obama’s doing.

You will lie like a rug denying the black president did this, but sadly for you, any reader can conduct a few Google searches and see it all there.
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September 23, 2014 3:00pm
Andrei

Syria the latest in a long line of sovereign nations bombed by the USA
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September 23, 2014 3:03pm
Kea

kowtow (8,200 comments) says:
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:49 pm
While I welcome action against ISIL ,the west should be working with Assad on this.

WTF !!!

Katie what happened to you while I was gone ? 😉

I agree with you ! Assad is not the sort of guy we want running NZ, but Key could not run Syria. The fact is, it was a stable secular country that respected its ancient Christian traditions and was doing okay by the standards of the region. Look at it now the black “liberal” president has been “helping” !
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September 23, 2014 3:05pm
kowtow

Six reasons not to arm the FSA.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/6-reasons-why-the-u-s-should-not-arm-the-syrian-moderates/?singlepage=true
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September 23, 2014 3:08pm
stephieboy

kea , it a flagrant lie that Obama has directly or indirectly funded your Islamic Jihadists like Sunni Al Nursa and off shoot SIS.

Andrei. , The US bombing Syria and Putin not militarily funding and propping up Assad in way whatsoever.??

Yes Syria was doing kind of well under Assad’s Baathist dictatorship until he turned on his own and started a civil war as per my post

at 2.07 pm

And naturally,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10303007/Assad-regime-accused-of-string-of-Syria-massacres-in-UN-report.htm
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September 23, 2014 3:15pm
Kea

The FSA want to “free” Syria from not having Sharia law. They make no secret of the fact and never have. They do not want a secular Syria. A hint is them chopping off the heads of Christians. Syria is at the heart of Christianity, a place where they still speak the language of Christ.

Just as the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama supported, had no intention of bringing liberal democracy to Egypt. Who would a thunk it !

This violent black warlord needs to be put before a court and hung for what he has done.
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September 23, 2014 3:19pm
ross411

Stuff: Cunliffe battles Labour caucus

Really, this is just more of the same Cunliffe bashing, in terms of articles. But the highest voted comments are interesting, if only for the fact that the anti-Labour anti-Cunliffe motif is strong.

This isn’t the only place within the last 20 minutes I’ve seen people complain about feeling like the party was sold out and no longer represents the Labour voters.

Smollie36 minutes ago
Just call it the ‘Trade Union Party’ and be honest and open about what is going on. Pointless pretending it’s a broad-based party for all NZers. If the Trade Unions call the shots as to who the leader is they beholden to them – he/she can’t govern for all.

And yet another:

Penguin37 minutes ago
He’s now battling it? He’s been battling it since he got the job. New Zealanders don’t wasn’t a pm who is paid by unions and secret trusts. Take the hint, go already and saved whatever dignity is left of labour.

And another:

frankc40 minutes ago
The only thing left for Labour really is for the centrists to split off, and leave the far left and unions, led by Cunliffe, disappear into oblivion.

He just doesn’t get that he and the agenda driven by his union and activist backers is the full and only reason they have sunk to these depths. The party vote in electorates Labour won shows very clearly that their selection process is flawed, and that caucus support for the Leader is paramount. Cunliffe didn’t have that support and never will, as the caucus realise just how toxic he is

Sentiment expressed here also, more than once:

MrJolly32 minutes ago
This is pure gold! I really hope he remains leader of Labour.

RicardoVonChung34 minutes ago
You had your chance David. Its Davids turn now.

Any hard core denialists were voted down as far as any of the above were voted up.
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September 23, 2014 3:21pm
ross411

Stuff: Beehive Live: The waiting game.

Here’s where the taxpayer’s misappropriated $158K is being spent?

He may not be King Maker, but Winston Peters still took his newly expanded caucus and a couple of staff to The Royal on Wellington’s Lambton Quay for lunch in their first week back in Parliament.
To the left of Peters is Mahesh Bindra, then going around the table is Clayton Mitchell, Elizabeth Miles (Barbara Stewart’s EA), Barbara Stewart, Fletcher Tabuteau, Tracey Martin, Richard Prosser, Brian Jameson (NZ First chief of staff), Denis O’Rourke, Darroch Ball and Ron Mark. Absent is Pita Paraone who is a former MP.

More union blaming:

Comment From Ex-Labour voter

I come from a few generations of Labour voters – but I could not do it this time! Who wants half the union to be having a say in our country? I would vote for Labour again if they had decent policies and someone worth voting for – how about Jacinda Ahern backed by the older more experienced women of Labour,or alternatively – where is Shane Jones? I would consider backing him – but not another David…Goliath (National) is using your sling against you.. Wake up and get a decent leader

Why the anti-union sentiment? The unions are supposed to be working for the people.
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September 23, 2014 3:30pm
Lindsay Addie

Key and the Nats must be loving all this post election focus of Labour. They can continue as bunch of merry men and women setting up the new administration with no notice whatsoever being taken of them. Meanwhile the media and every man and his dog have a front row seat watching Labour tearing out their entrails from their own half dead rather smelly carcass.
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September 23, 2014 3:36pm
Andrei

Syria is the seventh country that Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama has bombed.
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September 23, 2014 3:40pm
Kea

Andrei, Obama put troops into 35 African countries last year. They are still there. Our liberal media forgot to report that [and stupidboy will lie to you that is it false], but you can confirm it on the official US Army website. Operation Dagger.

The War On Terror Spreads to Africa: U.S. Sending Troops to 35 African Nations

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/01/the-war-on-terror-spreads-to-africa-u-s-sending-troops-to-35-african-nations.html
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September 23, 2014 3:46pm
Harriet

Kea#

That’s old news.

Those African states are Israels new best friends at the UN. Most have been supporting the Israelis with votes. It makes sense – they both have muslims as their immediate danger.

And unlike Israel they can’t defend themselves in the real world. And Israel can’t defend itself in the UNreal world – so the Africans support them. And the US then supports the Africans on the ground – for supporting Israel.
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September 23, 2014 4:32pm
Harriet

ISIS will strengthen itself – and then head to Palestine.
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September 23, 2014 4:38pm
Kea

Harriet, that is a bit like saying Israel has Jews as its immediate danger. Some of those countries are majority Muslim and Obama is attacking them in support of Christian minorities who want to gain power. It is not as simple as you make out.

Either way, it is none of Obamas business.
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September 23, 2014 4:42pm
kowtow

harriet

A commentator, on Al jazeera I think ,said the next target is Jordan. That could make sense. It is now majority Palestinian so loyalty to the Jordanian crown may be weak. I don’t know.Western govt will not want to see the last hashemite ,who Britain put on the throne get the Shah of Iran treatment.
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September 23, 2014 4:51pm
IGM

Where are Corkery, McCarten, Bradbury, Public Dog et al. Maybe they are at the Slobcrim bunker awaiting their glass vials.
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September 23, 2014 4:56pm
unaha-closp

Dirty Politics.

David Shearer was the victim of Dirty Politics.

He was a Labour leader who took a party polling in high 20s, led for 2 years where Labour consistently attracted low – mid 30s. With the Greens support a Labour led coalition looked possible and it wouldn’t even have needed Winston. All it needed was Labour to have a little bit of cohesion.

However David Shearer fell victim of a smear campaign by several bloggers lead by Cameron Slater.

David Shearer is now damaged goods. Destroyed by Dirty Politics. Cameron Slater and the other bloggers that carried the smears have succeeded. Labour is unelectable.
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September 23, 2014 5:13pm
Milburn35

Labour should now come out and say they will have nothing to do with the Greens, but they won’t. This is a major reason why they didn’t come close last Saturday, together with far left policies of their own. Keep Cunliffe as leader and watch the Party deteriorate further. He was the Chief Executive and if he was in that role in private enterprise he would have been sacked months ago. However he stated that he is in a learning mode as this being a reasonable excuse in losing is nonsense. Blame the voters for getting it wrong and everybody else for that matter but DC will not blame himself.
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September 23, 2014 5:14pm
stigie

Well, who would have thought…The Honeymoon is still not over for Key !~
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September 23, 2014 5:15pm