Labour joins National in promising a flag referendum

September 3rd, 2014 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

would also review the design of the New Zealand flag, with the party saying “the time has come for a change and it is right for the issue to be put to the public”.

“We would however support the ability of the RSA and similar organisations to continue to fly the current flag if they so wish. New Zealand changed its national anthem from ‘God Save the Queen’ on a gradual, optional basis and that process worked,” the policy statement says.

Prime Minister John Key has also already announced a referendum would be held on the flag in the next parliamentary term, saying it was his personal preference to see it changed.

This is good. It means that New Zealanders should get to have a vote on the flag, regardless of who wins the election.

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78 Responses to “Labour joins National in promising a flag referendum”

  1. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    The mask has slipped on our one party state and their common agenda.

    At least they are making noises about giving the plebs a vote this time unlike previous radical changes. Although, once the Nat/Lab party gets 75% of the vote, they will say, “you voted for this” and will go ahead and change it anyway…….probably under a “conscience vote” to prove to us it isn’t a rigged game

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  2. tvb (4,494 comments) says:

    Having two flags could be confusing, but I assume officially it will be the new flag if there is a change. Providing we retain the Southern Cross in some form I do not care what we have.

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  3. Jack5 (5,145 comments) says:

    National and Labour should merge – fuck them.

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  4. wiseowl (928 comments) says:

    Who the hell says ‘time has come for a change’

    Further progressive moves to dismantle the very glue that holds New Zealand together.

    It is not time to change the flag.It is time to rally round the flag and sing the National anthem in English with gusto, mean it.
    Be proud of our bloody country .Patriotic.

    Dismantlers piss off.

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  5. Sublime (295 comments) says:

    Damn. Wish I was in the AstroTurf business! :D

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  6. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    “Having two flags could be confusing, ”

    We already effectively have too flags, it’s just that the most popular one is unofficial.

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  7. unaha-closp (1,179 comments) says:

    Lets have a black flag with white symbols on it, just like those guys in Iraq.

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  8. Griff (8,153 comments) says:

    Good we are well past the point where England means “Home” to kiwis. Having the union jack on our flag is a throwback to the time before England joined the EEC and cut our apron strings.
    Hopefully the change will be to something we can all identify with not just some Maori based symbolism crap.
    Can we please delete the funeral dirge that is our national anthem at the same time.

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  9. Harriet (5,110 comments) says:

    But if Mr Craig ever dare mentions referendum on something serious…..

    …meanwhile Key and Cunliffe will take the piss out of the gullible.

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  10. ChardonnayGuy (1,211 comments) says:

    I’d far rather have a written constitution or entrenched Bill of Rights than changing the national flag. Still, to each their own. I would support any such change, but it’s not a political priority for me.

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  11. tvb (4,494 comments) says:

    Yes I think the black flag idea (which John Key favours) is a dead duck following ISIS.

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  12. Gulag1917 (982 comments) says:

    If It ain’t broke why fix it.

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  13. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    This is good. It means that New Zealanders should get to have a vote on the flag, regardless of who wins the election.
    ……
    we allow a vote on the flag but not on immigration policy (Helen Clark). It is acknowledged (Spoonley) that it would be some time before the consequences became known to the wider public. The result was a complete undermining of the national identity (and it has made a lot of people rich).

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  14. Jack5 (5,145 comments) says:

    The black flag – not just ISIS, but the uniform colours of Pol Pot, the SS, and pirates through the ages. For NZ, leave it on the rugby field.

    Do politicians want to change the flag, to give their terms in Parliament a sense of permanence – like school kids carving their initials on a desk?

    “I changed the flag, you know,” to those who will listen in the retirement village.

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  15. Tarquin North (352 comments) says:

    I’m quite happy with our flag. Why fix something that isn’t broken? I realise plenty of people will disagree with me on this one which is a good thing as long as it’s for the right reasons and not to appease some politically correct, single issue, turn back the clock pressure group. As for Labour making promises, they would promise free candy floss to get a vote – so nothing new there.

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  16. Scott1 (575 comments) says:

    The taxpayers union should come out opposing a referendum to decide if we want to have a re-branding of the country for no reason other than some people think it would be “cool”.

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  17. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    Note the hip (anti western?) “Aotearoa”. Mt Cook > Mt Cook/Aoraki > Aoraki/Mt Cook > Aoraki?

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  18. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    98% of the world dont know who they are or dont give a fuck about ISIS.

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  19. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Fc*k them indeed Jack. In Britain they call them the LibLabCon but the people over there have woken up to their agenda and it is literally now the people party vs. the politicians if they want to survive as a nation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

    John & David should just come out now and declare it – “this is the Peoples Republic of Aotearoa, formerly known as New Zealand”

    They will say of this country once called NZ was that it was a country where rugged, self-reliant individuals travelled from all around the world to create their new home. We created the Worlds best farms from swampland, they climbed Everest in the days before guided tours, their soldiers were known as the bravest an most ingenious in the world. They combined an indigenous Maori culture of self-reliance with European wisdom, culture and inventiveness to create Paradise in the South Pacific.

    Now in our modern Republic of Aotearoa, you can’t so much as fart without a politician imposing a regulation if you should be allowed to do that. The only choice you are allowed is the choice on which Socialist gang will rule over you.

    This will one day be a history lesson on how a free people became enslaved to an ideology and that very few could understood just what had happened.

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  20. lazza (382 comments) says:

    ” This is good. It means that New Zealanders should get to have a vote on the flag, regardless of who (huh?) wins the election.”

    Sooo … if Hone, Dot Com, Greens and Lab become the gummint? …

    Picture this …

    “A Maori confederation theme linked to a skull and crossbones coupled to a MegaUpload logo entwined within a fern and Hectors dolphin motif on a red background, with a border of rampant winged flying Kiwi dollars.

    Yepp … Should work!

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  21. thedavincimode (6,867 comments) says:

    Finally, we’re back to the issues that count.

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  22. KiwiGreg (3,259 comments) says:

    “This is good. It means that New Zealanders should get to have a vote on the flag, regardless of who wins the election.”

    Because the government of the day has always followed the majority in the referenda we’ve had to date?

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  23. insider (1,028 comments) says:

    Yay a chance to kill off the silver fern flag idea for a generation or two. I’d rather my flag be confused with that of Australia than with that of some goat herding medievalists (no I’m not talking about the Greens)

    our flag should represent important aspects of our history and our physical place in the world, much like this example – http://tinyurl.com/p223j2l

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  24. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    in my view the idea of a three stage referendum is sound.

    1 – Do we potentially want a change.?
    2 – What do we want the potential new flag to look like?
    3 – Vote between existing and potential new option.

    Wont be cheap tho. But shit Lab/Green are up to about $50 Bil in bribes by now so what is another ten or twenty mil?

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  25. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    The Greens want to fast track climate change refugees and Labour wants to up the number. The nation is becoming more of a free- for -all.

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  26. kowtow (8,730 comments) says:

    Shocking that we allow our masters in Wellington to dictate the trivia that can be put to referendum. The flag as opposed to marriage?

    As noted above ,Labour / National what’s the differnce? Merely that one manages th books a wee bit better than the other.

    Bread and circus 21st Century style.

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  27. Mark (1,489 comments) says:

    Hopefully someone comes up with something a bit more imaginative that the fucking All blacks logo

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  28. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Why do our political elites from the legacy parties hate our country so much that they want to change its culture, change its flag, change its laws and traditions?

    Like many things that require intuition to solve, clues can be found in what is left unsaid. In the below article on Kiwiblog, both Cunliffe & Key did not comment on the question “Should the family, rather than the government hold the primary responsibility for families”. Their silence on this, despite answering most other questions, tells you all you need to know about how they think. At least Turei was honest enough to come out and say that she thought families should be governments responsibility.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/09/party_leaders_on_family_issues.html#comments

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  29. Scott (1,817 comments) says:

    Agree with you kowtow. The changing the flag is a bit of a Trojan horse really. As someone else on this thread mentioned – well if we are changing the flag let’s change the national anthem too?

    And since we are getting rid of the union jack and all of that tiresome British/colonial/Western civilisation thing why don’t we get rid of the Queen as well?

    And while we are doing that why don’t we change the name to something cool like Aotearoa?

    And since we are doing that why not have a Bill of Rights and entrench things like gay rights and Maori rights and transgender rights and any other rights of any aggrieved group that we can think of apart from people that are heterosexual or male or white or Christian?

    And pretty soon we will end up with the socialist People’s Republic of Aotearoa certified by the UN as LGBT friendly and a world leader in the fight against global warming. What could be more excellent?!

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  30. kowtow (8,730 comments) says:

    “socialist People’s Republic of Aotearoa certified by the UN as LGBT friendly and a world leader in the fight against global warming. What could be more excellent?!”

    Doubleplusgood!

    Just a matter of time. Then it will be usurped by the South Seas Caliphate .

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  31. Ashley Schaeffer (508 comments) says:

    Under the Labortional Party, the progressive parade just keeps marching on.

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  32. lazza (382 comments) says:

    Scott Maate… Is it just me or do I detect a smidgen of T in C/Sarky?

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  33. wiseowl (928 comments) says:

    Dead right Scott .That’s how it works.
    The most disappointing aspect is that Key and National are leading the charge.

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  34. Inthisdress (292 comments) says:

    Why not a red flag with a tiny yellow star on it – to save time later.

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  35. mcardnas (84 comments) says:

    meh ~ the flag discussion is a distraction from REal issues .
    i like the southern cross and the st Andrews cross, they non negotiable for me.

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  36. Redbaiter (9,503 comments) says:

    Just remember people, neither of these two slippery socialist scumbags have said they will abide by the referendum. They just said they will hold one. Key has ignored them in the past. When asked on the Nation what his main ambitions were if given a third term the first item on his list was changing the flag.

    This is a Progressive idea.

    Key is a Progressive.

    So is Cunliffe.

    If you’re sick of Progressives changing things like flags and marriage and family responsibilities and constantly attacking the traditional patriarchal family unit then vote Conservative. Its the only option that exists to register a vote against Progressivism.

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  37. Ashley Schaeffer (508 comments) says:

    Key is a Progressive.

    Agreed, but do you think Key has any clue that he is one? I don’t think he does. I think he’s as politically unaware as every other prog drone.

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  38. Mr_Blobby (189 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy

    “I’d far rather have a written constitution or entrenched Bill of Rights”

    Would you really? The constitution committee is loaded with Maori and no other input is being sought. The Question is how are they going to get their Maori biased constitution past, probably not by referendum it would be voted down, but then it is non binding. How about a quick shove through Parliament under urgency.

    Pete George

    “Having two flags could be confusing, ”

    We already have multiple flags one NZ flag and several bullshit Maori flags, one Maori independence flag that has official recognition. Allowed to fly from the Harbor bridge on National Day.

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  39. Yoza (1,906 comments) says:

    At the very least we need to scrap the Union Jack. I know it is only symbolic, but getting away from symbolically expressing our subordinate status to foreign authority would be a good way of beginning the process of ending our subordinate status to foreign authority.

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  40. Redbaiter (9,503 comments) says:

    Agreed, but do you think Key has any clue that he is one? I don’t think he does. I think he’s as politically unaware as every other prog drone.

    Key proudly described his government as progressive.

    I think you’re right Ashley in that the man does not know what he is. For one thing he describes himself as “center right” and also says that moving National out of this sector of the political spectrum “is just not going to happen”.

    On any real political spectrum Key is not center right, and on any reasonable assessment based on size of govt, taxation rates, government spending, welfare spending, govt regulations, govt interference, separatism, racism and other Marxist influenced strategies he would be at least far left rather than center left.

    I think he really does not know he is a virtual communist, and I also think he does not know that the real battle has shifted to an offensive between the progressive forces of the elitist govt/media/academic bloc and the conservatives force of the traditional patriarchal family unit.

    He doesn’t realise it because like most progs he lives in a political bubble. Its well known he surrounds himself with ex mainstream media political advisers, (even been criticized for taking their advice over the advice of his National Party colleagues) and their views are probably the views he uses as a benchmark for “normal”, without even knowing that media people have been shown in surveys to be far more liberal than the man in the street.

    The National Party has been infiltrated by Progressives and taken far from its conservative roots. John Key is the leader of the progressive faction and is most responsible for his party’s ideological surrender, but the real tragedy is the damn vacant fool does not even know what he has done or what he is doing.

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  41. Nukuleka (346 comments) says:

    Totally uncalled for.

    If we’re going down that pointless tack why not couple it with a referendum for us to change the name of the country whilst we’re at it-‘New Zealand’ – how Eurocentric and inappropriate is that! Surely we can come up with something more appropriate to our post colonial place in the South Pacific!

    Maybe DPF, Cunners and Key would like us to ditch ‘New Zealand’ as well.

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  42. Mr_Blobby (189 comments) says:

    Yoza

    And a good way of beginning the process of beginning our subordinate status to tribal authority.

    Get ready to swear allegiance to the bullshit Maori King so he can extend his realm past his letter box.

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  43. dime (10,095 comments) says:

    such an important issue ffs

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  44. Griff (8,153 comments) says:

    vote Conservative. Its the only option that exists to register a vote against Progressivism.

    All you retardists can have your very own squalid little wingnut party that the rest of us can totally ignore.
    Colon crags conservatives keeping the retardants away from any power by their own not negotiable binding referendum stupidity.

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  45. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    @Red,

    It isn’t an accident, it’s deliberate. If it were an accident, why is every single country in the West adopting the same suicidal policies?

    “The individual is handicapped by coming face to face
    with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists” J Edgar Hoover

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  46. Mr_Blobby (189 comments) says:

    Redbaiter

    “the damn vacant fool” has money, the support of the US, has accommodation their, probably citizenship and is subservient to big business interests.

    I think he knows exactly what he is doing.

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  47. backster (2,184 comments) says:

    I think a green hammer and sickle on a red background would be a revealing and appropriate symbol if we are governed by Cunliffe’s coalition.

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  48. Yoza (1,906 comments) says:

    Mr_Blobby (151 comments) says:
    September 3rd, 2014 at 10:26 am

    Yoza

    And a good way of beginning the process of beginning our subordinate status to tribal authority.

    Get ready to swear allegiance to the bullshit Maori King so he can extend his realm past his letter box.

    I am Waitaha Tuturu, we are Kingitanga. The Maori King only represents Maori who are descended from the original Kingitanga movement, well less than half of those who identify as Maori. If you are trying to insult people it would help if you began from a position of having at least a passing acquaintance with this country’s history.

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  49. Redbaiter (9,503 comments) says:

    Colin Craig makes a good case for binding referenda. I think even those who do not like Craig will have to admit this is a reasonably good ad.

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  50. Redbaiter (9,503 comments) says:

    “If it were an accident, why is every single country in the West adopting the same suicidal policies?”

    Yes, perfectly correct, but the real question is “why are they so determined to destroy their own cultural heritage and their liberty?”

    The answer is they do not know what they are doing or who they are helping or what the real political objectives are because half a century ago the left shifted their offensive to our culture, and they have used our culture as a vehicle to subtly introduce left wing ideas, so subtly that gape jawed low IQ morons like Grief and other gullible and manipulated citizens have adopted all of these ideas without even recognising them for what they are.

    You know how Gramsci planned it.

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  51. Griff (8,153 comments) says:

    Is that a gargoyle you posted redtwit?
    You are aware that New Zealand as a whole is a progressive country and you precious binding referendum will do more for progressive policy than for the retards.
    Legalize pot will be the first of many progressive victory’s if binding referendum ever eventuates..
    All good
    A massive Own goal by the retards as it were.
    Vote ACT for party as I will if you want more right leaning governance.. Colon is not even measurably right wing in his proposed policy’s.

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  52. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Q) Why are they so determined to destroy our own culture?

    A) Year zero – like a Phoenix from the ashes…..

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  53. Redbaiter (9,503 comments) says:

    Funny how Grief has so much to say about the CP.

    When it comes to understanding what its about, he’s light years away from getting it.

    Everything he writes here, as shown by his desription of ACT as “right” ignores the fact that the real conflict lies between Conservatives and Progressives, and trying to explain that to him is like talking rocket science to a gerbil.

    Try listening to the above ad one more time Grief, and in particular the closing sentence about families.

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  54. Unity (609 comments) says:

    Since when did the Government listen to overwhelming referenda on a particular subject? That is why we need binding referenda so that the people can have their democracy back. Those who suggest referenda will be held on absolutely everything have no idea what they are talking about. Just look at how successful they are in Switzerland who have had them for over 140 years. They hold very few because their Government knows a referendum will be triggered if they don’t listen to the majority of the people, so they do listen. However, if a referendum is held on our flag and the citizens overwhelmingly don’t want it changed, Key will still do so because that’s what he wants to happen. He will just make it happen regardless because that’s what he does. He doesn’t give one jot about what the citizens think on anything. His views are paramount.

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  55. Harriet (5,110 comments) says:

    Smacking or flags ?

    Why is Key being such an insulting fuckwit to every mum and dad across the country? — As the people who will mostly benefit from a flag change are Maori — the same people who STILL beat the crap out of their children.

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  56. Shunda barunda (2,985 comments) says:

    Is that a gargoyle you posted redtwit?
    You are aware that New Zealand as a whole is a progressive country and you precious binding referendum will do more for progressive policy than for the retards.

    No, NZ is actually far more conservative, don’t confuse the election options of “progressive A or progressive B” with what NZers actually want.

    Legalize pot will be the first of many progressive victory’s if binding referendum ever eventuates..
    All good
    A massive Own goal by the retards as it were.

    No it won’t, it will never get past decriminalization through a referendum, and even that could be a big ask.

    Vote ACT for party as I will if you want more right leaning governance..

    Ha!!, you mean the party that NZers REALLY don’t give a shit about? you should thank the good Lord for Epsom every single day, ACT is nothing but a curious political anomaly.

    Colon is not even measurably right wing in his proposed policy’s.

    No, he is conservative.

    We will see who has the last laugh.

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  57. Tautaioleua (309 comments) says:

    I don’t buy the bullshit argument that the Union Jack is a hat tip to our colonial past. In case they haven’t noticed, the name New Zealand is too; along with the names of most of our cities and regions. Almost everything kiwi has roots to Britain or Australia.

    If they had their way, would they change it all? there’s no hiding our past, it determines our present and future. Don’t let the progressives reinvent our history.

    God save the Queen.

    :-)

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  58. Random Punter (77 comments) says:

    I’ve always thought we should change the language. After all, English is just a relic of our colonial past which no longer reflects the vibrant multicultural society we’ve become. And so are Westminster parliamentary government and the judicial system. There are alternatives. Those ISIS chaps have some pretty interesting ideas. Sharia law, anyone?

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  59. Padriv Ustoev (85 comments) says:

    I’m loving this thread. So much support for the Califate. I will vote for the black flag with white writing. Insha’Allah, we are finally moving to a stable government.

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  60. Inthisdress (292 comments) says:

    I’m sick of whoever it is giving me a thumbs down all the time no matter what I say so I’ve been through and given everyone else a thumbs down just to even it up. However, looking back I now realise I mistakenly gave some people a thumbs up accidentally, so now my system is completely in chaos.

    Just thought I’d share that with you all.

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  61. gump (1,660 comments) says:

    @Scott

    The purpose of the LGBT movement is to obtain rights that are equal to those of other people. Which seems entirely reasonable.

    I don’t know why that scares you.

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  62. Harriet (5,110 comments) says:

    “……..The purpose of the LGBT movement is to obtain rights that are equal to those of other people. Which seems entirely reasonable.

    I don’t know why that scares you…..”

    Hardly the truth Gump.

    The gays took away the right of hetrosexuals to retain the very important hetrosexual title of Marriage.

    They have been reduced to now having a hetro/homo title of Marriage — and they’re not even fucken homo!!!!

    That’s how disordered the homosexual community is —- they take away the rights of others believing it is ‘equality’ —- so of course the gay community is going to be seen as being of concern to civil society.

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  63. Laksa (16 comments) says:

    Would I like the flag changed – Yes!

    Would I vote for it to be changed – No!

    Reason for that is the solution will be a trendy,new age, Maori friendly, politically correct, bland flag designed to offend the minimum number of people.

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  64. kowtow (8,730 comments) says:

    “designed to offend the minimum number of people.”

    Laksa,make no mistake they don’t care about offending the silent majority.That’s why I believe in direct democracy.Can’t trust the bastards anymore.

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  65. gump (1,660 comments) says:

    @Harriet

    You sound just like my Grandfather – who has dementia.

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  66. kowtow (8,730 comments) says:

    gump

    Obviously hereditary in your case.

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  67. Paulus (2,657 comments) says:

    Surely it will be the Combined Tribes Flag -that will show who we are !

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  68. hj (7,060 comments) says:

    Thinking back over this period (MMP and social change), one of (or the) Tariana Turia’s legacies: “my people”. As I head to super and I see an open door immigration policy with ma and pop’s from China etc (“welcome this is your home now – Green Party), I’m inclined to think “go for what you can get”, because it them and us now and I think this will be the effect on a lot of people.

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  69. SJM (84 comments) says:

    Ahhh, democracy New Zealand style; the people shall have change whether they like it or not.
    Is it not about time that the public were foisting change on politicians and not the other way around? We can start by making politicians accountable 24/7 via recall mechanisms and the nations symbols changeable only at public initiative.

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  70. mandk (1,015 comments) says:

    I wonder what proportion of foreigners could tell the NZ flag from the Aus flag.

    For that matter, I wonder what proportion of Kiwis could do the same.

    And I wonder how many Canadians regret changing their flag to the maple leaf. It’s probably one of the most distinctive flags in the world.

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  71. SJM (84 comments) says:

    mandk (892 comments) says:
    ———————————————

    I suppose one might have difficulty with the NZ and Australian flags if one could not tell a larger number from a smaller one and were colourblind………….

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  72. Unity (609 comments) says:

    I totally agree SJM (3.49pm). The politicians instil their will upon us all the time no matter how much we protest or what we request. It’s time to take our democracy back and insist they do the bidding of the majority. At the moment the only time we have a democracy is once every three years when we (those who can be bothered!!) vote. Then it’s back to dictatorship before we can blink an eye.

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  73. kowtow (8,730 comments) says:

    ‘I wonder what proportion of foreigners could tell the NZ flag from the Aus flag.’

    Who cares what thick foreigners don’t know. These flags were for reccognition principally at sea.

    Do the Belgians and Germans get worked up about similarities, the Irish and Italians, the Slovaks and Slovenes.

    If someone is too thick to know the difference ,it’s not up to the people of New Zealand to change their flag to suit some raghead.

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  74. Odakyu-sen (732 comments) says:

    Why do New Zealanders so easily discard their culture?

    They did away with 1 cent, 2 cent and 5 cent coins. (The Americans still have their pennies and the Japanese their aluminium 1-yen coins.)
    Now they want to change their flag. (I think they should wait until they become a republic before doing so.)
    (Next, they will want to change the very name of “New Zealand” into something the indigenous people never had a traditional name for but was invented by linguists in later years, no doubt).

    I guess if you don’t value your culture and heritage, you won’t think much about changing it.

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  75. FeralScrote (224 comments) says:

    Maybe they should run a referendum on getting rid of that funeral dirge we call an anthem instead.

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  76. Odakyu-sen (732 comments) says:

    FeralScrote

    Funeral dirge?

    You want a funeral dirge? Well you couldn’t do much better than the Japanese national anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcujBUxZg1A

    ;-)

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  77. kowtow (8,730 comments) says:

    “I guess if you don’t value your culture and heritage, you won’t think much about changing it.”

    Thing is odak ,that maintream New Zealand culture ,history and tradition has been under attack by nearly all for the last how many years. This is just another part of the same. No wonder so few feel they can or should stnd up,it’d just not fashionable and we all so want to be ‘innovative” popular and with it.

    Progressive is the thing to be, conservative are old fahioned ,nasty and on the wrong side of history ,or so we’re alwys being told.

    Bring on the referendum so we can tell them to FUCK OFF and leave the flag alone.

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  78. Odakyu-sen (732 comments) says:

    I guess if New Zealanders cared for their culture, they’d fight for it.
    But they don’t, so I feel that deep down, they don’t really value it.

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