General Debate 16 October 2015

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stephieboy

Reid,

Reid, the claim that ISIS was the creation of Israel and the CIA is thoroughly analysed and debunked here. It originated from Iranian sources and which have never ever been documented or verified. Simply – conspiracy propaganda rumour ville and dotsville Conspiracy theories flourish in the Middle East and we can recall the myth of the 4,000 Jews who did not turn up on 9/11. That originated in the ME too.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/19/blog-posting/edward-snowden-leaked-nsa-documents-show-us-israel/

and,

http://time.com/2992269/isis-is-an-american-plot-says-iran/
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October 16, 2015 12:15pm
Kimbo

@ Longknives

A lot of my favourite Test matches involve the French- they seem to have a flair for dramatic last minute finishes!

There is one even better than that French win over the All Blacks in New Zealand, and it happened in 1979.

Along with not picking Vic Cavanagh as coach in 1949, hounding Fred Allen out of the All Black coaching position before the 1970 tour to South Africa and forcing Grizz Wyllie and John Hart to co-coach in 1991, the NZ Rugby Union scored one of its biggest “own goals” by scheduling the All Blacks to play France at Eden Park that year on July 14…Bastille Day!

What a game! – Gallion, Caussade, Codorniou, Mesny, Averous, Costes, Joinel (who played the game of his life that day)…and Rives. It’s even better with a French commentator!: –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqltQ_f_QGY

And just to show things were different then, the crowd cheered for the French – as they had done when Greg Cornelson scored 4 tries for the winning Wallabies the year before: –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6S2YTg_ypI
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October 16, 2015 12:20pm
Griff

Rugby World Cup – France v All Blacks: Les Bleus ‘dismiss’ head coach Philippe Saint-Andre ahead of quarter finals
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11530264
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October 16, 2015 12:25pm
Inandout

Odakyu-sen 11.25: Yes, that is in my opinion her long term plan. It would stop the migrant invasion dead in its tracks, but the aftermath for Germany with the extreme Right in power is an unknown factor. Being Jewish in Germany at present can’t be easy, with Muslims on one hand abusing you, and the neos doing the same. Merkel claims she is a Lutheran.
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October 16, 2015 12:29pm
Kimbo

@ Griff

Rugby World Cup – France v All Blacks: Les Bleus ‘dismiss’ head coach Philippe Saint-Andre ahead of quarter finals

…as did the French with their coach in 2011…and England too for that matter in 2007.

And both teams made the finals those years, and arguably were both robbed of the title courtesy of poor reffing decisions on the day.

By the last two weeks of a World Cup there is stuff all a coach can do that will make any bloody difference. If the players have dumped their coach then they have taken on their shoulders the full responsibility for their decisions and play – so no one to blame. Plus teams like France (and South Africa too, although via the different laager-circling process) thrive on the emotional energy that comes from chaos/adversity.

Be afraid. be veeeery afraid. It promises to be one hell of a game – as are all of the quarter finals. South Africa vs Wales is no certainty, as are any of them.
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October 16, 2015 12:31pm
Odakyu-sen

Albert,

I meant that in a moral sense.

One of the reasons morals are important is because they are an internal control of an individual’s actions. The weaker the internal control, the stronger the external control must surely be.

I for one would prefer to live in a society where people know what is “good” or “bad,” “right” or “wrong” (note the use of quotation marks around these concepts) and can thus make their own choices. Otherwise, we hand over our control of our actions to the State, who will then exercise control through intrusive monitoring and punitive measures.
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October 16, 2015 12:33pm
cha

Russia, same as it ever was….

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/194211/russia-today-airs-bizarre-anti-semitic-conspiracy-theory-about-hillary-clinton
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October 16, 2015 12:39pm
James Stephenson

The best Centre was Danie Gerber (with Philippe Sella a close second..)

Probably have to agree re: Horan, but (possibly some one-eyed pommieness coming out, but hey I just rated an Aussie there) I’d have to pick Guscott at 13. Was ever so much talent so wasted by a team? Bloody Rob Andrew is at the RFU now and seemingly still doing what he did as a player…someone should give him the bullet in favour of Stuart Barnes, it worked a treat against Scotland in 1993.
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October 16, 2015 12:39pm
kowtow

Good piece from A Bolt’s blog.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/no_were_not_multicultural_or_shouldnt_be/
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October 16, 2015 12:41pm
Manolo

Cameron backtracks: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/15/david-cameron-bows-to-eu-pressure-for-list-of-demands

David Cameron bowed to pressure from other EU governments on Thursday and pledged to put his shopping list of demands for his in/out EU referendum on paper within weeks after previously declining to do so.
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October 16, 2015 12:42pm
Reid

Yet another extremely lucid explanation of what has happened in the ME and what has led to the current situation there. For the benefit of sillyboy, it does have a few Time covers in it, but I imagine that still won’t help him to understand what it’s saying.

https://medium.com/dan-sanchez/clean-break-to-dirty-wars-d5ebc5fda9f9
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October 16, 2015 12:49pm
Michael

I was actually listening to this game on the radio. Came as quite a shock to me when Peter Jones used the word buggered.
Caused quite a furore at the time.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/speech/40316/im-absolutely-buggered
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October 16, 2015 12:50pm
Manolo

Merkel spoke on behalf of stephieboy: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/15/angela-merkel-rejects-criticism-open-door-refugee-policy-germany

Angela Merkel roundly rejected criticism of her open-door refugee policy as she pressed for EU solidarity before a Brussels summit on the crisis.

“It’s no exaggeration to see this task as a historic test for Europe,” she told a packed Bundestag, adding that to “slam the door … is an illusion in the internet age of the 21st century”.
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October 16, 2015 12:50pm
stephieboy

cha, your correct . Russia Today is stark raving bonkers about it’s latest bizarre Illuminti based conspiracy theory about Hilary Clinton which no doubt Reid, EAD and coy will latch onto and salivate over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Keen5zqTacE

Talk about who the real steeple are that believe this load of garbage !
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October 16, 2015 12:56pm
cha

Oops, seems another source – Wayne Simmons, a former CIA officer who participated in the [The Citizens Commission on Benghazi] commission’s research is a fraud.

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/for_the_record/ph-ac-cn-wayne-simmons-charged-fraud-20151015-story.html
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October 16, 2015 12:58pm
DJP6-25

cairon 8:23 am. Try Kingsoft, it’s free.
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October 16, 2015 1:03pm
pdm

KS – I am with you re Mike Gibson. John Gainsford from the 1965 Springboks was no slug either and as I recall Jo Maso started at 12 before moving to 10 for France. If you want a good 10 to go with them Bev Risman from the 1959 Lions was the real deal and a better player than the much lauded Barry John

As far as New Zealand mid fielders are concerned Bruce Robertson sets the bench mark as JB Smith was before my time. Robertson and Bill Osborne would definetly rate ahead of Nonu and Smith with Nonu being one of the worst positional players I have seen in a Black jersey. A Walter Little Bruce Robertson mid field combination would have been worth watching.
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October 16, 2015 1:05pm
kowtow

“Talk about who the real steeple are that believe this load of garbage !”

Yep, with the traitor Mufti Merkel letting the barbarian hordes flood Europe, steeples will be a thing of the past. It’ll be all minarets.

This is a great example of why the Swiss direct democracy model is the best. Our politicians can no longer be trusted to represent their electorates .

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/29/switzerland-bans-mosque-minarets
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October 16, 2015 1:05pm
Michael

This bloke was a pretty good first five.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naas_Botha
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October 16, 2015 1:10pm
Michael

And this bloke was a pretty good winger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Lomu
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October 16, 2015 1:12pm
stephieboy

Reid, ah the penny drops re Dan Sanchez ,

“..Thank you for reading. I work at the Mises Institute where I run the Mises Academy, an e-learning program for Austrian economics and libertarian political philosophy. I am a columnist for Antiwar.com and my essays have appeared at Mises.org, LewRockwell.com, The Ron Paul Institute, and David Stockman’s Contra Corner. I have given lectures and conducted interviews for the Mises Institute and appeared on The Scott Horton Show and The Tom Woods Show. You can find all of my essays, lectures, and interviews at DanSanchez.me, you can follow me via Twitter, Facebook, TinyLetter, and Medium, and you can email me at dan-… “

Enough said !

kowtow, yet another who believes Hilary Clinton is a cover for Illuminati world domination ?

Wow !
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October 16, 2015 1:14pm
Kimbo

@ Michael

I was actually listening to this game on the radio

Funny you should mention that, because up until 1956 you could not say the All Blacks were clearly the best team in the world.

The 1905 All Blacks famously lost their “World Cup final match” equivalent against Wales.

Due to an internal British rugby administration dispute the 1924-25 Invincibles did not play the greatest Scottish team of all time – plus in 1921 and then 1928 they drew a series with South Africa home and away on either side of that 1924-25 tour.

They lost to Wales and England in 1935-36, and were clearly second to South Africa in 1937 and 1949.

So if you count the years when they were dominant/had the best record, especially in their encounters with South Africa before the 1971 Lions/Welsh temporarily swung things in the direction of the Northern Hemisphere for most of the 1970s, and then the era of World Cup champions from 1987 onward, the only years you could say we were clearly the best team in the world were

1956-1959
1963-1969
1978
1981-85
1987-1990
1996-1997
2005-2006
2008
2010-2015* (this year contingent on winning RWC)

So that is 30 years out of 113 since we played our first test match (in 1903).

Sure, we have a better win-loss record (but then the Springboks didn’t get as many opportunities to chalk up regular wins against Australia, who only became a consistent world class team after 1978.

Instead, South Africa would rate as the best from

1931-1955
1960-1962
1970
1980
1995
1998
2007
2009

…plus their great team of the 1980s only got the chance to show their wares against the 1986 Cavaliers.

Wales
1901-1909
1971-1976

England
2002-2003

France
1977

Australia
1979
1986
1991-94
1999-2001

…and in all the other years there were at least two teams at the top

1910-1930
New Zealand and South Africa

2004
New Zealand, South Africa and Australia

So how come we are historically regarded as the “best team in world rugby”?
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October 16, 2015 1:15pm
Michael

This bloke was a pretty good lock, and his brother Stan was almost as good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Meads
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October 16, 2015 1:15pm
kowtow

For the Obama worshippers out there. Hope and Change ? Nope, but he’ll get a free pass from the media on this. And they want us to believe he’s big on the law blah blah blah. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy to see terrorists vapourised . But Obummer is meant to be pure and white as the driven snow, which he ain’t ( like the colour joke?)

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/killed-drones-targeted-intercept-report-usa-afghanistan-somalia-yemen-151015193812970.html
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October 16, 2015 1:16pm
Michael

Kimbo
So far as I can recall South Africa and New Zealand were always the teams to beat.
The British Isles had some good teams but you can’t really count them because they are a combined team.
I don’t really follow the histories of teams, and have only seen the All Blacks play twice in the flesh, as it were, both times at Athletic Park.
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October 16, 2015 1:21pm
Reid

Reid, ah the penny drops re Dan Sanchez ,

The penny never drops with you, sillyboy.

Do you have anything to say about what he actually wrote? You know, pointing out where he’s incorrect, stuff like that?

No, of course not. You never do. That’s what makes you, you.
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October 16, 2015 1:25pm
Kimbo

@ pdm

Bev Risman from the 1959 Lions was the real deal and a better player than the much lauded Barry John

Risman scored a try of stunning team and individual brilliance down the blind side in the 4th test of 1959. Half back Mulligan had earlier engineered a try running blind from the scrum and passing to winger O’Reilly on the cut. This time Mulligan ran open and all the All Blacks covered O’Reilly, who they thought would come inside. Instead, no. 10 Risman, veering towards the gap O’Reilly had left took the scissors pass, and then, with bugger all room to move, swerved and accelerated down the blindside. He went past the defending All Balck winger, Bruce McPhail like he was a ghost. As a very knowledgeable rugby critic who watched that game once quipped – “McPhail’s future All Black career prospects vanished right there and then!”

https://www.google.com/search?q=bev+risman&tbm=isch&imgil=3dVHkdJqi1PCfM%253A%253BfEYS9Uy84AjDBM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.bbc.co.uk%25252Fsport%25252F0%25252Frugby-union%25252F22336923&source=iu&pf=m&fir=3dVHkdJqi1PCfM%253A%252CfEYS9Uy84AjDBM%252C_&biw=1280&bih=627&usg=__tLrpSuDRgfuqzLeiAhkURiQdXtI%3D&ved=0CDoQyjdqFQoTCIqQpZfcxcgCFUYZlAodZFAA4A&ei=xkIgVoqVHsay0ATkoIGADg#imgrc=3dVHkdJqi1PCfM%3A&usg=__tLrpSuDRgfuqzLeiAhkURiQdXtI%3D

In the photo that is fullback Don Clarke and loose forward Rex Pickering too late covering the corner flag – with McPhail forlornly getting to his feet in the background. No shame in that – he was beaten by a genius.

Along with Don Clarke’s goal kicking, Risman’s absence from the 2nd and 3rd test in 1959 due to injury was the significant factor in the series.

Risman’s effort rates alongside Welshman/Lions winger Ken Jones’ try in the 4th test of 1950, and the try from the end of the earth in 1994, as the most brilliant try scored in a test at Eden Park (with a favourable mention for the freakish Peter Jackson individual effort in that same 1959 game)
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October 16, 2015 1:28pm
Michael

O’Reilly was a pretty good winger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_O%27Reilly
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October 16, 2015 1:33pm
Michael

This bloke was a pretty good fullback.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Blanco
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October 16, 2015 1:37pm
mikenmild

It might be quicker just to list the players you thought were no good…
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October 16, 2015 1:38pm
kowtow

Hahaha.

More cowardice and hypocrisy from the world of “artistic” freedom of expression ,blah blah blah. No surprises about which “religion” the coward ‘artists” refuse to depict.

The headline is bollocks , as there will be no wrath coming from Christians.The others won’t give a shit and the you know who’s aren’t included.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/11933291/Argentinian-artists-risk-religious-wrath-with-Barbie-The-Plastic-Religion.html?frame=3473265
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October 16, 2015 1:39pm
Michael

You talkin’ to me, miken?
Another top winger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Habana
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October 16, 2015 1:40pm
Paulus

Some, if not many, who will be truthful,will be delighted when the Rugby World Cup is over – irrespective of the winner.
I am told that nothing to New Zealand is as important as New Zealand winning the cup again.
– is that all we have to worry about ?
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October 16, 2015 1:44pm
Odakyu-sen

kowtow

“No surprises about which “religion” the coward ‘artists” refuse to depict.”

People won’t dare criticize a religion that will hit back, plus the authorities will label such people as “troublemakers.” (It’s always easier to come down hard on the powerless.)
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October 16, 2015 1:46pm
Kimbo

@ Michael

The British Isles had some good teams but you can’t really count them because they are a combined team.

Well, the Lions were clearly the better than New Zealand and South Africa in 1971 and 1974 respectively…and Wales were the dominant team who supplied about half the touring party in each case (and also in 1977 – and that Lions team should have won that series against us) – JPR Williams, Gerald Davies, John Dawes, Barry John/Phil Bennett, Gareth Edwards, Mervyn Davies. They only lost twice at home throughout the entire 1970s (twice, arguably unluckily to New Zealand in 1972 and 1978, and also an unofficial test against us in 1974)

Only Mike Gibson, Ray McLoughlin and Fran Cotton from the other 3 Home Unions would have certainly made a Welsh team if available in that era. Not even David Duckham, Ian McLachlan, Willie John McBride, Gordon Brown, Fergus Slattery or Andy Irvine were clearly better than the Welsh alternatives. And of the All Blacks of that era, I think only Ian Kirkpatrick would have been an automatic selection if available to them.

And the French teams of that era, including the one that beat the All Blacks in Paris in 1973, and again in Toulouse in 1977 were bloody formidable – yet Wales dominated the five nations, winning grand slams in 1971, 1976 and 1978.

Plus it wasn’t just the Welsh winning record in that era. Their back play was light years ahead of us, until JJ Stewart and Jack Gleeson, learning from the 1971 Lions, planted the seeds that resulted in the All Blacks using their backs once more…
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October 16, 2015 1:46pm
SGA

Paulus at 1:44 pm

– is that all we have to worry about ?

Depends on who you are, I suppose. I’m worried that Jurgen Klopp may not be able to turn things round at the kop.
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October 16, 2015 1:49pm
stephieboy

Reid, I never do ?Well you give us a nice preciis about the what Dan Sanchez actually claims in his link including his blanket blaming of Neo Cons using e.g front covers of Time magazines over the complexity that is the Middle East !
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October 16, 2015 1:50pm
Griff

Kowtow we make fun of both head buts and zombie munchers
like here
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
Or here pointing out how much the same you godwhacks are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4
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October 16, 2015 1:52pm
Michael

This bloke was a little before my time although I see he was still playing rugby when I was.
He was rated as New Zealand’s first rugby super star.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Nepia
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October 16, 2015 1:52pm
Michael

Kimbo
Willie John McBride would have made any test team I reckon.
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October 16, 2015 1:55pm
Left Right and Centre

First ever KB comment while on a job. It had to happen one day – haha.
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October 16, 2015 1:57pm
Michael

Wales have only beaten New Zealand in rugby three times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_New_Zealand_and_Wales
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October 16, 2015 2:00pm
Griff

Concrats lrc
Hope your boss ain’t an arsehole.
Don’t do a miky and spend half the working week here.
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October 16, 2015 2:01pm
kowtow

grief, snort and giggle all you like.

The reality,as most know, is the danger does not come from some Confederate flag wearing shot gun bearing American.

Who raided Charlie Hebdo, who slaughtered Lee Rigby , Nathan Cirillo or Curtis Cheng. Who commit the attacks on Jews in France etc

Bigots like yourself like to conflate Christian and Muslim extremism , but sensible people know where the threat is.And who the liars and hypocrites are.
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October 16, 2015 2:01pm
Reid

Well you give us a nice preciis about…

sillyboy, if you wish to comment on something, the customary thing to do is first read what it says. So do that, and don’t expect me to precis something that’s not very long, so even you shouldn’t have any trouble with it.
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October 16, 2015 2:01pm
blazeoflight

@kowtow

Quite right.

And don’t forget Mei Lai, Haditha, Abu Grahib, Kunduz…

Yep, we know where the threats are, don’t we!
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October 16, 2015 2:08pm
Manolo

@Griff: The facts are different and the evidence clearly points to Muslim extremism.

The number of terrorist acts committed by the savage hordes of Boko haram, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and other Islamist barbarians, dwarf the rest.
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October 16, 2015 2:09pm
Griff

Yip Anders Breivik was a Muslim so was Timmy McVeigh and the unibomber
Hang on that is not quite right
They were your brand of stupidity
In fact Breivik was nattering on about cultural Marxism in his manifesto.
kowtow the best thing you could do for humanity.
Get a condom covered mary up ya .
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October 16, 2015 2:10pm
kowtow

“Mei Lai, Haditha, Abu Grahib, Kunduz…”

Correct me if I’m wrong but there is a constitutional bar to a state religion in the US.

So blazeofshight, what’s your point?
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October 16, 2015 2:11pm
mikenmild

LRC
It had to happen one day – getting a job. It needn’t cramp your commenting style.
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October 16, 2015 2:20pm
Odakyu-sen

“The facts are different and the evidence clearly points to Muslim extremism.”

Um, what if it’s not extremism but just what it says on the can (in the Koran)?
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October 16, 2015 2:25pm
Reid

http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/10/is-islamic-terrorism-a-myth/
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October 16, 2015 2:27pm
stephieboy

Reid, you provided the link and I would think the onus is on you to present a reasonable summary and apprehension of Sanchez arguments instead of :

“Yet another extremely lucid explanation of what has happened in the ME..”

Ok can you summarise what they are exactly ??
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October 16, 2015 2:40pm
Reid

I would think the onus is on you to present a reasonable summary and apprehension of Sanchez arguments i

Well you’d be dead wrong wouldn’t you, stupidboy.

Why is it unreasonable to expect that someone who wishes to comment on an article actually read the fucking thing?

What is wrong with you that you would possibly think otherwise?

Don’t you know anything at all?

I won’t be telling you this again, idiot. Either read it, or don’t comment on it at all. One of the two. There is no third option.
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October 16, 2015 2:47pm
Kimbo

@ Michael

Kimbo
Willie John McBride would have made any test team I reckon.

If the criterion was grit – yes. But even Colin Meads rated the Welshman of the 1959 Lions, Rhys Williams (and also Springbok Johan Claassen) as the best lock he ever marked. And that’s not counting Frik du Preez, who for sheer all round talent but alas, not application, rated as the most talented lock until John Eales.

I also mis-spoke above – Peter Whiting would have made a Welsh team of 1971-76. But not necessarily Bryan Williams, Grant Batty or (before 1976) Bruce Roberston. And they would have always picked Gareth Edwards ahead of Sid Going as he was both a Welshman and a better all-round scrum half. Although Going, being the cunning player he was, always went out to out-play his opposite number, especially if it was Edwards. Which he did on nearly every one of the 12 or so occasions they met (not counting the 1973 Barbarians game, when he – Going – was practically a cripple due to an ankle injury).

Yes – Wales beat us three times: 1905, 1935 and 1953, and we did not win a test in Cardiff until 1963. And we only moved ahead of them in the win/loss column until 1969 (not counting the Kiwis win in 1945 or the 1974 unofficial match).

The Welsh 1953 win was due to a lucky bounce after we dominated the game like we did against France in the 2007 quarter final. The 1935 match was a thriller, with a clever piece of obstruction helping them to score the winning try in the last minutes (we gave ’em pay back with Andy Haden in 1978!).

And of course the 1905 test had a famous reffing controversy…but the 1905 All Blacks were in agreement the better team won on the day..even if they thought Bob Deans scored.

And they blew it in both 1972 and 1978…
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October 16, 2015 2:50pm
Scott Chris

Fletch (7,847 comments) says:
October 16th, 2015 at 9:40 am
Well, it looks as though this “deal” that Obama and Western nations have claimed to have passed with Iran is nothing of the sort.

Whatever Fletch. Iran, like the USA has its conservonutters to appease. Let’s wait and see eh?
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October 16, 2015 2:51pm
Manolo

Personality cult that would do well in North Korea: http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/10/15/448968801/new-clinton-spanish-posters-hillary-or-evita

New Clinton Spanish Posters: Hillary Or Evita?
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October 16, 2015 2:56pm
Scott Chris

The best All Black teams I have seen in my short lifetime were the ’87-88 sides (World Cup winners/Unbeaten Run) and the ’95-96 sides (World Cup finalists/Historic win over Boks)

Yes they were relatively good sides within the context of their eras but personally, I’ve never seen a better side than our current one when you take into account both the player depth, experience and talent, coupled with the astute, experienced and progressive coaching staff.
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October 16, 2015 2:59pm
stephieboy

Reid from you other link at 2.27pm we get this claim from the interview ,

“LW: Let’s switch to “the” terrorist attack that happened on 9/11. Your book Hijacking America’s Mind on 9/11, in which you focused on transcripts of the telephone conversation, which the people on board the airplanes conducted with their loved ones. Because of the strangeness of the recorded voices you questioned that these calls were made by the people on board the airplanes. Could you elaborate on that?
ED: In my book, I did not indicate from where the calls had been made. According to the official account, they were made from hijacked aircraft, partly from cruising altitude. I do not consider this claim plausible. It is more likely that the calls were made from ground level, but have no definite opinion on that particular aspect. What I consider strange in the phone calls is (a) the contents of the calls; (b) the casualness with which callers reported murder from the plane; and (c) that none of the callers explained how the alleged hijackers entered the cockpit. After analyzing all 51 phone calls – an effort manifested by 150 pages of meticulous details – I concluded that no hijackings had taken place. In order to reconcile what some callers said with this conclusion, an explanation was needed. In my book I offer an explanation that I still consider the best hypothesis for these calls.”

Argueable on all counts .First of those calls only a couple on cell phones were made . The majority were made on air phones . The technology did not exist at the time to voice morph such calls in such a way to anticipate what either the caller or the receiver would say ,

“As Dr Papcun points out, while the voice morphing is difficult enough, it’s dwarfed by the challenge of managing the content of any conversation. How are any conspirators going to know how an individual is likely to behave in this situation, what they might say? There can’t be any guessing here, no slip-ups, you can’t afford to make a relative suspicious. You must have an “actor” who can react precisely as the passenger would, on reflex.

And as an example of the research required, consider the call by Linda Gronlund, who reportedly called her sister to pass on the combination of the safe containing her will (which suggests no-one else knew it, because otherwise why bother?):

Linda Gronlund, called her sister, Elsa Strong. Elsa Strong says, “She said, ‘Hi, Else, this is Lin. I just wanted to tell you how much I love you.’ And she said, ‘Please tell Mom and Dad how much I love them.’ And then she got real calm and said, ‘Now my will is in my safe and my safe is in my closet. and this is the combination.’ And she just told me the combination of her safe.
http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc090302.htmlsaid,

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Cellphone_calls_faked

Plus,

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/AK_Dewdney_and_Project_Achilles
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October 16, 2015 3:00pm
Scott Chris

The best Centre was Danie Gerber (with Philippe Sella a close second..)

Stirling Mortlock was one of the best centers I’ve seen- damn his Australian hide. Guy could kick too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG14vO-wtvQ
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October 16, 2015 3:13pm
Scott Chris

mikenmild (16,162 comments) says:
October 16th, 2015 at 1:38 pm
It might be quicker just to list the players you thought were no good…

Warrick Taylor
Alan Hewson
Andrew Mehrtens
Aaron Pene
Whatsisname Henderson
Ewen Chatfield
Jeff Crowe
Bruce Edgar
Paul Scholes
Gene Ngamu
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October 16, 2015 3:20pm
kowtow

Odyaku @1125

“The State loves a “crisis” because it gives the State the excuse to do extraordinary things and get away with them.”

Yep, this is the concluding paragraph from my link to the Speigel story. They have a tidal wave of jihad heading their way and the state response is against their own citizens’ legitimate concerns!

“In Bavaria, officials at the state chapter of Germany’s domestic intelligence agency, the Office for the Protection of the Constitution, which monitors extremist activity, are speaking of a “massive verbal escalation” on the part of the anti-Muslim scene. The agency found it of particular concern that that the right-wing extremists had clearly begun reaching previously untainted people with their “campaigns of hate.” This group, too, could become a future source of “xenophobia-inspired attacks,” they warn. The closing of ranks between right-wing extremist parties and German citizens irate over the refugee influx is a phenomenon that is worrying officials at virtually every domestic intelligence agency in the country. Now officials at the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution are hoping to find ways to track down ringleaders of the NPD and other neo-Nazi parties like Die Rechte (“the Right”) and The Third Way and to find ways to unsettle the scene.

“Something is heading our way,” says one high-ranking member of German domestic intelligence. “We need to try and stop it.”‘
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October 16, 2015 4:00pm
kowtow

Europe needs a lot more of Kaczynski and a lot less of Mufti Merkel.

http://news.yahoo.com/wing-polish-leader-migrants-carry-diseases-europe-131643107.html
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October 16, 2015 4:16pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

Has anyone else noticed the appalling inaccurate coverage by the herald of the Chris Cairns trial ? Reason ? The cockroach Jarod Savage is in London on some jolly to watch the AB’s….the latest report http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11530348 with the headline 3 News journalist Tova O’Brien arrested at Chris Cairns perjury trial….the actual story talks about her been given a caution. Surely Jarod Savage has to be the worst journalist in NZ ?
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October 16, 2015 4:24pm
SGA

Scott Chris at 3:20 pm

It might be quicker just to list the players you thought were no good…
…
Paul Scholes
…

Interesting member of your otherwise NZ-centric list 🙂
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October 16, 2015 4:41pm
Michael

Kimbo
I should have mentioned “nobody” aka John Eales as him team mates referred to him as in “nobody’s perfect ” . He certainly was a top lock. Colin Meads was still around in 1971 so he would have made the Welsh team in that year, surely?
I remember watching that game where McKechnie kicked that last minute penalty after Hayden and Oliver did a Hollywood.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/page/andy-haden-dive-saves-rugby-test
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October 16, 2015 5:11pm
Tauhei Notts

Michael at 1.37 made reference to Serge Blanco.
Team Serge Blanco nowadays have the “Quinze” clothing brand.
For those of you who were “feeding the chickens” during French lessons, quinze is #15.
I recall Serge Blanco leaving the field after a minor injury. The first thing he did, as he joined the others on the bench, was light up a gasper.
If a Frenchman does that on Sunday morning the anti-smoking zealots of New Zealand will name that player the Alain Marfart of the 21st century.
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October 16, 2015 5:18pm
Scott Chris

SGA (2,850 comments) says:
October 16th, 2015 at 4:41 pm

Paul Scholes
…

Interesting member of your otherwise NZ-centric list 🙂

Simple reason SGA. Couldn’t think of Garry Lineker’s name off the top of my head 🙂
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October 16, 2015 5:21pm
Longknives

The best locks I’ve seen in my era have been John Eales, Martin Johnson and Victor Matfield..
I always thought the Robin Brooke/Ian Jones combination was one of the best New Zealand have had as well, and Haden/Whetton were just outstanding v the Boks in ’81 (I used to have the series on Video)
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October 16, 2015 5:21pm
Longknives

Yep Tauhei- Blanco was a chain smoker, used to light up before the game and during trainings as well! Freakishly good player, loved seeing him carve into the line outside Sella..
Would be my fullback in Longknive’s Lifetime XV (Cullen would probably be my second pick)

I also used to love the big Scottish fullback Gavin Hastings- I used to watch a lot of Five Nations and even when Scotland were awful he was always a threat..just did everything so well
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October 16, 2015 5:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Wellington City needs the Public Watchdog to investigate the Mayor’s secret fund
http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=82782
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October 16, 2015 5:27pm
Dave_1924

@SGA your 1:49pm…..

Having just watched Jurgens’ pre Spurs presser I would have to say he will turn the mighty Reds around… might take little while, but he is truly inspirational and his focus is on getting the defense right first and building from there…..

YNWA SGA
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October 16, 2015 5:32pm
Reid

US analysts were aware that an Afghan hospital was a protected medical site days before the building was hit by an American airstrike, killing more than 20 civilians, according to the Associated Press.

So AP (i.e. Western MSM) tells us (only because they had to otherwise Medecin Sans Frontiers would have raised hell and we probably wouldn’t have heard) that US analysts knew, while the mission plans were being drawn up for the AC-130 Spectre Gunship to orbit over said hospital for 1.5 hours and shoot it up, that it WAS a hospital?

Imagine if Russia had done this.

Imagine what the global headlines would be screaming. Screaming. Literally. All of them. Wouldn’t they. Wall to wall. Banner headlines. In all Western MSM.

But no, nothing really. Happens everyday. Move on.

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151015/1028591799/us-military-hospital-bombing-afghanistan.html

And the sheeple go…

…of course they do, that’s why they’re called sheeple.
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October 16, 2015 6:30pm
Gabby

South Africa was truly great in the home-appointed referee era. Not so flash since.
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October 16, 2015 6:31pm
Viking2

There are plenty here who bag Kelsey and Penny.
Well have a wee read of this.

In the High Court earlier this week, Justice Collins – the former Solicitor General – handed down a significant judgement in an Official Information Act case. The judgement itself is a fairly easy read, and Otago University law professor Andrew Geddis has a nice summary of the issues and implications here.

The third audience for this judgment is the Ombudsman’s office, and the Chief Ombudsman Beverley Wakem in particular. Because it is fair to say that she does not come out of the judgment all that well. Not only does Justice Collins find that she apparently misunderstands how a quite key legal test under the OIA is meant to apply (at para. [139]), but her failure to pick up MFAT/Tim Groser’s ignoring of proper process is quite concerning.

After all, the Ombudsman is meant to be the primary check on those who hold official information failing to abide by their legal obligations. If that office is not noticing those failures – if it is basically waving through decisions that fail to comply with the OIA – then what is a citizen to do? The Courts are always there in theory … but in the real world this is a completely unrealistic avenue of redress because of the time and expense involved.

http://croakingcassandra.com/2015/10/16/justice-collins-the-oia-and-the-reserve-bank/#comments

Public Servants, paid by the TAXPAYER, WORKING FOR THE TAXPAYER.
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October 16, 2015 6:47pm
stigie

“Wellington City needs the Public Watchdog to investigate the Mayor’s secret fund”

No chance of that Maggy, the watchdog stays well away from holding the left to account. She’s not very transparent ?
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October 16, 2015 6:47pm
Manolo

To lure the rate-bludger to the capital, Wellington would need to have its own version of Kim Dot Com, once generous source of funds.
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October 16, 2015 6:51pm
Manolo

One invader is killed: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/16/afghan-refugee-shot-dead-police-turkey-enter-bulgaria

An Afghan man was shot trying to cross into Bulgaria from Turkey late on Thursday and died on his way to hospital, the interior ministry has said.

“A big group of illegal migrants attempted to enter Bulgaria from Turkey. One man suffered a gunshot wound in the incident and died on the way to hospital,” an interior ministry spokeswoman told AFP.
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October 16, 2015 7:08pm
Gabby

KO for Dung? What was the clincher for you – I’m against it because I’m against it, or there’s no profit to be made from it?
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October 16, 2015 7:10pm
nasska

The Catholic Church has a lot of credibility at stake right now and to help them when they next select a new Pope for the modern world I propose three essential criteria.

1. The Pope should be black. Being black worked wonders for the popularity of Barack Obama and Nelson Mandela.

2. The Pope should be out and proud gay. Gay characters are always popular in soaps, sit coms and Big Brother and a gay Pope would give Catholicism a boost in the fun stakes.

3. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, she should be atheist.
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October 16, 2015 7:41pm
blazeoflight

@Manalo

So Afghans are caught between murderous NATO forces, murderous Taliban forces, and now facing the latest murderous creation of western politics, IS, and you cheer when supposedly civilised Europeans adopt a policy akin to murderous Israel’s in its occupied territories.

I guess empathy and sympathy are concepts remote to your good self.
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October 16, 2015 7:50pm
Andrei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN76HA-oIqo
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October 16, 2015 7:51pm
Awww C-mon

Friday night and stupid arse comments arrive in a blazeoflight…. Excuse me while I check for a full moon
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October 16, 2015 8:00pm
Andrei

T’ís a waxing crescent moon tonight Awww C-mon you grumpy old shit
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October 16, 2015 8:02pm
Awww C-mon

Couldn’t see from current position so thanks Andrei, as to your description of me, have we meet previously? You couldn’t be more accurate if you tried?

Unless you added opinionated
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October 16, 2015 8:06pm
mikenmild

If it was a full moon we would have heard from D4J by now…
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October 16, 2015 8:20pm
Awww C-mon

He’s busy flying around in a chopper with Starboring
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October 16, 2015 8:23pm
Jack5

A female judge, probably living in some safe, leafy suburb, gives a light sentence that suggests she empathises with a thug rather than his innocent victims.

A gang member, Stanley Aholotu, 29, who has already done time, beat hell out of a man and his wife and took their car, but has been sentenced to just three years and four months in prison. Aholutu was at Auckland District Court on charges including two of assault with intent to injure.

From the Hooerald report:

Judge Anne Kiernan called it a physically and emotionally “life-changing experience” for the pair he attacked, who said the incident had cost them more than $20,000.

But because of Aholotu’s limited financial means, the judge refused to order reparation.

The newspaper reports that Aholotu was jailed for five years in 2010 on a charge of wounding with intent to do grievous bodily harm — one of his 40 convictions — and had only been out on parole for a couple of months when the offence occurred.

Aholotu’s lawyer said her client had “a huge amount of insight into his offending and a real desire to change”.

The malevictim told the Hooerald reporter that Aholotu should have been sentenced to 15 years in prison.

Perhaps the Crown could appeal against the light sentence.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11530377
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October 16, 2015 8:27pm
stigie

Hagley Park beckons Dad and Starbored !~
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October 16, 2015 8:28pm
blazeoflight

@Andrei

You need to be more specific to be taken to heart.
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October 16, 2015 8:36pm
mikenmild

I noticed this odd line in a story about Malcolm Turnbull visiting New Zealand:

Turnbull is a vocal admirer of the way Key has introduced major economic reforms with a minimum of fuss.

It reminded me that DPF promised a series of posts on those ‘major’ economic reforms.
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October 16, 2015 8:49pm
blazeoflight

@Mike

I think Turnbull is referring to the hounding of the sick and the sole parents, especially mothers, and forcing them off the rolls and into the black economy, without causing a huge ruckus, and that is a major triumph for the radical right. Turnbull is envious.

David Seymour, of course, is not amused. He prefers to see blood in the streets.
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October 16, 2015 9:05pm
Awww C-mon

Oh FFS….Seriously?? Do you engage any form of intelligence before typing these cliches???
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October 16, 2015 9:08pm
Scott Chris

mikenmild (16,169 comments) says:
October 16th, 2015 at 8:49 pm
I noticed this odd line in a story about Malcolm Turnbull visiting New Zealand:

Turnbull is a vocal admirer of the way Key has introduced major economic reforms with a minimum of fuss.

You mean the old trick of reforming the status quo? To his credit he seems more open to change than most imo.
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October 16, 2015 9:17pm
Southern Raider

Arsehole Palestinians have just set fire to Joseph’s Tomb which is nearly 3000 years old.

Once again the religion of peace and tolerance destroys another of the worlds greatest historical sites.
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October 16, 2015 9:21pm
Komata

SR

And will the Palestinian perpetrators be held accountable for their actions? No way, remember, the UN meme is that no matter what happens, and despite all the evidence showing the complete and utter opposite, it will ALWAYS be Israel’s fault.

So much for the much-vaunted UN ‘impartiality’…
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October 16, 2015 9:56pm
Southern Raider

Komata well the UN has told Israel off for using “excessive force” with no mention of average of 20 attacks a day over last two weeks on Israeli civilians.

The BBC TV feed actually had a ticker tape claiming Josephs Tomb was a holy Muslim site.

Imagine the riots in the streets and attacks globally if Jews set fire to a Muslim apostles tomb
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October 16, 2015 10:06pm
SGA

Dave_1924 at 5:32 pm

YNWA SGA

🙂 🙂
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October 16, 2015 10:06pm
Viking2

wehn, please tell us wehn this sloppy, lazy national govt. with its support partners like Dunne and the Maori are going to stop the constant flow of nearly ever organization in the country attempting to regulate our lives.

We have Bennet committee running around spending taxpayers money attempting to “CUT RED TAPE”.

Not working nor is anyone ;listening Paula Dear.

Backyard campers targeted in the Coromandel

Backyard camping in one of the country’s most popular holiday spots is under threat as the Thames-Coromandel District Council looks to tighten up rules around the tradition.

The proposal, which would see people getting out their measuring tapes to make sure they comply, has become heated with many telling the council to stop trying to red-tape the long-held Kiwi tradition and to keep their hands off private property.

Councillor Sandra Goudie warned the bylaw would have a wider impact than understood.

“When it was first raised with council, it didn’t actually register the degree it would affect all private properties not just areas that get inundated.”

Consultation on the proposal closes on Monday with hearings to be held on November 5.

If adopted, the bylaw would take effect from December 14.

The bylaw is made under the Local Government Act 2002, so

anyone who breached the bylaw could face a criminal conviction.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/73032792/backyard-campers-targeted-in-the-coromandel
=====================================
So plant your tent to close to the boundary of some obnoxious prick who calls the council and next you will have a criminal conviction.
Well that makes us all feel like we belong.

time some of this power was removed from the Nazi’s in councils.
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October 17, 2015 7:49am

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