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April 12, 2016 1:00pm by David Farrar

Houston we may have a problem

This is the Preferred PM rating of the four Labour Opposition Leaders. Rather speaks for itself.

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Comment63

NZ Politics
Labour
Labour Leadership
Polls

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Comments (63)

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RRM

I like your colour coding. Getting redder and redder!
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April 12, 2016 1:10pm
stigie

Where does Little go for shelter, who does he turn to with these results…?
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April 12, 2016 1:11pm
hmmokrightitis

It depends on your definition of “problem” 🙂

I suspect they could only do worse if they appointed the mad woman in Littles place. Oh god what a day that would be…
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April 12, 2016 1:11pm
Nostradamus

RRM:

Sson to become invisible ink – if Little falls below the margin of ~~error~~ relevance!
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April 12, 2016 1:12pm
burt

Who next ?
9 0
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April 12, 2016 1:13pm
Manolo

Angry Andy is a fine man and even better opposition leader.
Now is the time to stop the nonsense and vain attacks to this distinguished exponent of NZ socialism.
25 1
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April 12, 2016 1:13pm
Brigitte

No problem yet for Little. It seems that a burst in popularity is what does you in. He’s safe for another couple of polls at least.
15 1
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April 12, 2016 1:14pm
alex Masterley

Damn,
That is funny.
14 0
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April 12, 2016 1:14pm
JMS

I suspect they could only do worse if they appointed the mad woman in Littles place.

Which mad woman do you mean? It’s just, there are so many in the Labour caucus.
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April 12, 2016 1:15pm
Nostradamus

Meanwhile, at The Standard, they have a plan:

For a PM who is so embarrassing, who is clearly a sleazebag with women/girls, who has done NOTHING for the ordinary New Zealander, who just loves to play around with the big wealthy VIPs, and who deals in corrupt behaviours, and who has started to get booed in public, there must be something screwed in the way the questions of polls are asked, for his seemingly continuing “popularity”.

Yes. We’ve gone from rogue polls to the polls are rigged!
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April 12, 2016 1:15pm
Hajji

Best strategy for Labour ‘leaders’:

“Fart and Flee” ©Hajji 2016
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April 12, 2016 1:17pm
PhilP

Question time could be a blast today and again tomorrow in the General Debate!
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April 12, 2016 1:18pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

This rapid fire cycling of leadership is actually good for the future of labour – as it is churning through all the wannabes and establishing that they are all not up to it. Might actually result in some departures and renewal (though failed left wing leaders do tend to hang around to keep their noses in the trough unless shown the door)
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April 12, 2016 1:18pm
hmmokrightitis

JMS, I meant the mad woman of Auckland, she who will become mayor.

Oh thats right, she’ll have a job already, what was I thinking!

Mind you, the delicious irony of Penny as mayor, discussing the enforced sale of her own house with her CEO. I would pay good money to listen to THAT conversation!
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April 12, 2016 1:21pm
Nostradamus

Meanwhile, at The Standard, they have a plan!

For a PM who is so embarrassing, who is clearly a sleazebag with women/girls, who has done NOTHING for the ordinary New Zealander, who just loves to play around with the big wealthy VIPs, and who deals in corrupt behaviours, and who has started to get booed in public, there must be something screwed in the way the questions of polls are asked, for his seemingly continuing “popularity”.

They seem to be even more unhinged than usual…
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April 12, 2016 1:21pm
wreck1080

You’d be forgiven for thinking the unions are being secretly controlled by John Key. He couldn’t have asked for more from them .

Why on earth aren’t the unions interested in actually trying to win an election? They’d certainly get more progress for their cause.

The only people who might have had a chance to win for labour , perhaps Shane Jones or John Tamahere, have been given the old heave ho.

I’m guessing labour has an actively enforced culture of failure. Any meerkat who dares put their heads above the rest get quickly decapitated.

And you couldn’t get too excited about the calibre of people lining up for the next stab at the labour leaders job.
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April 12, 2016 1:23pm
srylands

It is actually a bad state of affairs.

When Corbyn was elected UK Labour Leader, The Economist pointed out that he was unelectable. That would deprive the UK public of a contest of relevant ideas. Further, it would make the Government complacent and reduce the quality of public policy.

I see the same thing happening in New Zealand.
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April 12, 2016 1:23pm
tom hunter

“Failure is not an option!”
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April 12, 2016 1:24pm
Igotta Numbum

Houston we may have a problem

Well that depends on what side of the fence you’re on… from the right side of the fence I don’t see a problem at all 🙂
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April 12, 2016 1:25pm
PhilP

Meanwhile, at The Standard, they have a plan!

“For a PM who is so embarrassing, who is clearly a sleazebag with women/girls, who has done NOTHING for the ordinary New Zealander, who just loves to play around with the big wealthy VIPs, and who deals in corrupt behaviours, and who has started to get booed in public, there must be something screwed in the way the questions of polls are asked, for his seemingly continuing “popularity”.

They really do live in a bubble over at the Stranded. They have no idea of the actual reality!
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April 12, 2016 1:26pm
tom hunter

Oh… I’m on a roll now:

Andrew Little: All right, we’re not doing this, gentlemen. We are NOT going to do this. We’re not going to go bouncing off the walls for ten minutes, ’cause we’re just going to end up back here with the same problems! Try to figure out how to stay alive!
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April 12, 2016 1:27pm
Hajji

@ wreck1080
“Why on earth aren’t the unions interested in actually trying to win an election?”

Because the first principle of trades unionism is… union dues.
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April 12, 2016 1:27pm
tom hunter

Andrew Little: [pointing to a large “NO” note on the control panel] What is that?

Grant Robertson: Oh, I was getting a little punchy and I didn’t want to cut the LEM loose with you guys still in it.

Andrew Litte: That’s good thinking.
Grant smiles
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April 12, 2016 1:31pm
TMC

Never mind the direction/trend lines of the various leaders, the fact that your graph tops out at 16 and not one ever surpassed it is probably something they should be alerting Houston to…
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April 12, 2016 1:32pm
tom hunter

Andrew Little: EECOM, is this an instrumentation problem, or are we looking at real power loss here?

Nigel Haworth: It’s, it’s reading a quadruple failure – that can’t happen! It’s, it’s got to be instrumentation.
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April 12, 2016 1:37pm
burt

What is this graph actually showing ?

I think it shows the support for unions in NZ. The astounding thing is that labour are so f##king stupid that not only do they put their heads in the sand that they haven’t produced a sustainable economy for over 60 years but they actually think the unions are the right people to pick the party leader. Astounding !
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April 12, 2016 1:37pm
Kimbo

@ tom hunter

Andrew Little: This could be the worst disaster Labour’s ever faced.

Grant Roberston: With all due respect, sir, I believe this is gonna be our finest hour. (winks at Jacinda)
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April 12, 2016 1:39pm
Rich Prick

Little is headed towards becomming a one percenter. But at least he can claim to be more popular than herpes.
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April 12, 2016 1:42pm
stigie

. “Astounding” !

And outstanding Burt, from another way of looking at it !~
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April 12, 2016 1:43pm
RalphT

Rich Prick: But there’s probably some fun involved in catching herpes. With Little it’s pain before and after.
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April 12, 2016 1:45pm
Ross Miller

The problem isn’t Little or Labour. Rather the fact that the great unwashed don’t understand them … then again, perhaps they do.
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April 12, 2016 1:50pm
tom hunter

Andrew Little: [David has just killed himself, Andrew and Annette in the 2014 election simulator during a failed attempt at election] So what happened?

David Cunliffe: [morosely] Came in too far left. We’re dead.

Annette King: [even more morose] No shit.

This stuff just writes itself!
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April 12, 2016 1:50pm
Nostradamus

Tom Hunter:

This stuff just writes itself!

Not at The Standard – it’d disappear without trace, and you’d be banned for moral thought crimes, before you could say 7%!
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April 12, 2016 1:52pm
keysersoze

Makes you wonder why they rolled Goff? At least his approvals were on the up!
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April 12, 2016 1:57pm
Kimbo

@ keysersoze

Makes you wonder why they rolled Goff? At least his approvals were on the up!

He resigned, like Helen, after the election loss. They were actually doing ok with David Shearer, until they got impatient and surrendered to this sort of “pick a telegenic leader because that is all John Key is” distorted analysis and “Deweys defeats Truman” false optimism:

http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2013/09/congratulations-david-and-karen-from-brian-and-judy-and-why-john-keys-days-are-numbered/

…Now, as it happens, I don’t think John Key is a particularly good communicator at all. Not at least in the sense of being verbally adept or impressive either as a speaker or in debate. But the absence of a charismatic opponent who had all those qualities has allowed Key to play to his greatest strength – that he is a man comfortable in his own skin, seemingly at ease with the world and himself, enjoying his life and his job, not too fussed about anything, a multi-millionaire most people could imagine as a mate, seemingly without side or pretension.

And where it matters most – on the box? Well, Key’s recent interview with John Campbell gives you your answer.

But today the picture changed. John Key has some real opposition. David Cunliffe has a brilliant mind, is a brilliant speaker and debater and there is no politician to match him on the box. Cunliffe is the game-changer.

And the proof of the pudding will lie where it has always lain – in the polls. And particularly in the Preferred Prime Minister poll. No party leader permanently registering under 15% in that poll, let alone dipping into single figures, can hope to enjoy the confidence of the electorate or lead their party to victory. And that has been the situation for every Labour Leader since 2008.

But all that changed today as well. Under Cunliffe’s leadership, his and Labour’s poll rating will begin to rise, slowly but inexorably.

John Key no longer has the game to himself.
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April 12, 2016 2:02pm
stephieboy

tom hunter , it might be a good idea to get out of your little glass house given the similar parlous state your beloved GOP now finds itself
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April 12, 2016 2:02pm
wreck1080

goff was awful.
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April 12, 2016 2:02pm
AgentBallSack

And the proof of the pudding will lie where it has always lain – in the polls. And particularly in the Preferred Prime Minister poll. No party leader permanently registering under 15% in that poll, let alone dipping into single figures, can hope to enjoy the confidence of the electorate or lead their party to victory. And that has been the situation for every Labour Leader since 2008.

Labour obviously sacked Brian Edwards shortly after.
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April 12, 2016 2:07pm
tom hunter

Jacinda Adern: Annette, Annette, these nice young people are going to watch the television with you. This is Chris Hipkins, and this is Kelvin… Davis.

Chris Hipkins: Hi.

Annette King: Are you boys in the Labour Party too?
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April 12, 2016 2:07pm
wreck1080

Little cannot win on charisma or policy, so now he’s trying to win by scandal….ie, trying to implicate John Key with tax evasion in the panamas….
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April 12, 2016 2:16pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Stigie
He’ll turn to Mat McCarten, that serious tax evader, who will tell him everything is just fine and it doesn’t matter anyway because nobody will be the slightest bit interested in his tax returns.
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April 12, 2016 2:18pm
Kimbo

@ wreck1080

Little cannot win on charisma or policy, so now he’s trying to win by scandal….ie, trying to implicate John Key with tax evasion in the panamas….

Yes, it worked for Helen Clark against Jenny Shipley’s administration in the lead-up to 1999. Or at least Calrk was smart enough to delegate the “death-by-a-thousand-cuts” task to Trevor Mallard…while Clark herself stood apart from the fray looking “presidential” and a leader in waiting.

But that is too subtle and goes against every instinct of two former-union scrappers like Little and Matt McCarten. Plus, Labour being what it is, they can’t trust the “dirt-digger” not to use their resulting profile to snatch the leadership for themselves.
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April 12, 2016 2:21pm
ciaron

tom hunter (6,626 comments) says:
April 12th, 2016 at 1:50 pm
…

This stuff just writes itself!

The only problem I have, Tom, is that the Apollo XIII crew got back safely. Not sure this particular Labour crew will be that lucky.
But don’t let that stop you, really enjoying this remake! 🙂
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April 12, 2016 2:26pm
tom hunter

Election Night 2017 at Labour HQ.

Annette King: Jacinda, Chris is asking for you

Jacinda enters Chris’s bedroom, to find him under a tent made of old Labour Party banners, holding a flashlight.

Jacinda Adern: Chris?

Chris Hipkins: Why are so few people here?

Jacinda Adern: Well, you know, your dad’s flying his election mission.

Chris Hipkins: He said he was going to get me a piece of John Key’s flesh.

Jacinda Adern: Right. Well, something broke on your daddy’s political party. And he’s going to have to turn around before he even gets to the election.

Chris Hipkins: Was it the leadership election process?
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April 12, 2016 2:35pm
Steve Wrathall

Andrew Little: Ladies and gentlemen. What are your intentions?
[Caucus turn around and stare at Little]
Caucus: We’d like to go home.
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April 12, 2016 2:59pm
Steve Wrathall

David Cunliffe: [David sits down in the Leader’s seat on the front bench] Sorry Andrew, it’s an old habit. Kinda used to the skipper’s seat.
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April 12, 2016 3:01pm
Satantango

@Kimbo

The article by Brian Edwards is a great find. Egg meet face, Brian. And even better are the comments. Some people reading what they wrote back then should cringe with embarrassment, while others, such as yourself I may add, will rightly be able to say, “I told you so!”. What is even more intriguing to me is that those building up David Cunliffe as the saviour of the Labour Party and signalling the end of days for John Key back in 2013, sound remarkably like those on The Standard today. Delusion remains strong among the Left.
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April 12, 2016 3:03pm
tom hunter

Sheesh – this movie is a goldmine for Labour 2016 mockery …

[Andrew and Annette are trying to get control of the Labour module]

Andrew Little: We’re all out of whack. We try to pitch to centre but we yaw to the left. Why can’t I null this out?

Annette King: She wasn’t designed to fly attached like this. Our center of gravity is the Green Party.

Andrew Little: It’s like flying with a dead elephant on our back.
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April 12, 2016 3:05pm
Hajji

What the fuck do you mean “Andrew Little: Ladies and gentlemen. What are your intentions?”

That would NEVER EVER be said at a Labour meeting.

Andrew Little: Freaks, whores, gays, poofters, cross dressers, bisexuals, asexuals, lesbians, weidos, perverts, sickkos, bathroom bandits, airport toilet escape artist [sic], commies, tyrants, hypocrites. What are your intentions?
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April 12, 2016 3:05pm
lolitasbrother

I think Jacinda would raise the Labour figures, but in the end she is a mad horse. We need to look further into the future for even deeper failure. The collapse utter and complete of socialism in advanced democratic countries
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April 12, 2016 3:08pm
Steve Wrathall

Voter: Andrew, did you know the candidates in 2014?
Andrew Little: [pause] Yeah, I knew them. Knew all of them.
Voter: Could that happen again?
Andrew Little: Well, I’ll tell you something about that election, a lot of things went wrong. The …umm… couldn’t get it open …um… needed to get out, that was one thing. Well, a lot of things went wrong.
Voter: Did they fix it?
Andrew Little: Oh, absolutely, they fixed it. It’s not a problem anymore
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April 12, 2016 3:14pm
Kimbo

@ Satantango

What is even more intriguing to me is that those building up David Cunliffe as the saviour of the Labour Party and signalling the end of days for John Key back in 2013, sound remarkably like those on The Standard today. Delusion remains strong among the Left.

Yes – and bear in mind they are likely the same ones who foisted on Labour that cluster-fuck of a constitutional change whereby their parliamentary leader is now elected with direct input from unions and party members, and not just the caucus – who have the day-to-day experience of knowing if a potential captain has what it takes. The same system which gave them Cunliffe, and now – after winning on the 3rd round of vote counting and like Cunliffe with minimal support from the caucus he has to lead! – Andrew ‘7%’ Little.
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April 12, 2016 3:21pm
Satantango

@Kimbo

I often wonder if the more dispassionate members of the Labour Party don’t sometimes sit down and say, “How are we going to fix this? Three terms in Opposition, a lacklustre leadership, low poll ratings and no traction with the broader public. The only way we can get into government is in a coalition with The Greens and New Zealand First which will at best be difficult and at worst impossible.” Their best and brightest must really wonder if there is any point in continuing with the party. The stalwarts and ideologues will remain of course but as you observe, they are actually a large part of the problem.
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April 12, 2016 3:35pm
Kimbo

@ lolitasbrother

I think Jacinda would raise the Labour figures, but in the end she is a mad horse. We need to look further into the future for even deeper failure. The collapse utter and complete of socialism in advanced democratic countries

Is that a push for Lizzie Marvelly as next Labour leader?

I’d suggest Bryan Gould, courtesy of this “blame the rich-prick system for John Key’s success” excuse-making, but he is certainly “back to the future”! (That’s your cue, tom hunter, for a new vein of inspiration once you’ve exhausted the Apollo 13 quotes)!:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11621171

Bryan Gould: Rich private donors a threat to NZ democracy

2:46 PM Tuesday Apr 12, 2016

Those fortunate enough to have visited Huangpu Park, alongside the Bund in Shanghai, will know about the sign that was supposedly displayed in the Park in the early part of the last century, at a time when the British had taken over Shanghai. The sign was said to have read “No dogs or Chinese allowed.”

Most historians now regard the story as apocryphal, at least in its detail; but whether true or not, it epitomises and justifies a sense of outrage and grievance felt by Chinese at the humiliation imposed on their country by their unwelcome occupiers.

However much we may sympathise with this Chinese sentiment, it was still a surprise to see that the issue – understandably important to the Chinese – had somehow become a significant factor in the debate about our national flag.

We have it on the authority of Lewis Holden, the chairman of the Change Our Flag campaign that, at a dinner arranged for the Prime Minister and his National Party colleagues to solicit substantial contributions to the campaign from a group of Chinese businessmen, the donors agreed to pay up because they wanted “the Union Jack gone from the New Zealand ensign.”

The dinner gives the lie, of course, to the story that the flag campaign was non-political. And, as the media reports made clear, John Key was repeating a ploy that had involved a dinner with Dong Hua Liu – an experience from which he seems to have learned little.

Of much greater interest, though, is how what was surely a minority preoccupation in New Zealand terms became a key factor in the flag campaign in a way of which most people were completely unaware and did not in any case have the resources to match.

The RSA’s flag preference was just as strongly felt and their allegiance to our current flag was shared by many more than the Prime Minister’s dinner companions; but the RSA did not have the cash to throw at the campaign and would have been alarmed to know that they were being outgunned from such an unlikely quarter.

The revelation from Lewis Holden, a former National candidate, about the motivations of his benefactors, however, was not the only revealing point he made. He sought to justify the pitch to his Chinese colleagues by saying, “That’s the necessary evil of the democratic process – money plays a part… .Democratic processes are costly. The more democratic they are then the more costly they are.”

Mr Holden clearly has a curious concept of what democracy means. In his mind, it seems, it is simply a process, in which rivals compete to manipulate public opinion – a competition that costs the participants a great deal of money and where victory goes to whomever can raise and spend the most money.

We see a graphic demonstration of this view of politics unfolding before our eyes in the United States as millions – perhaps in some cases even billions – of dollars are being spent by rival candidates for the Presidency.

In New Zealand, however, we have always regarded democracy not just as a process, expensive or otherwise, but as a form of government that actually represents what people want and that serves their interests accordingly. The true purpose of democracy is not to win the propaganda battle but to elect a government that is accountable to the whole community and not just to a few with money to spend.

Mr Holden’s belief that democracy is like wallpaper – the more you spend the more you get – runs directly counter to that view. It is, however, rapidly gaining ground and taking over our public life. We have fairly sensible limits – at least by comparison with the Americans – on how much can be spent on elections but there is still a huge advantage to those who can tap large resources from private donors to fund their campaigns.

That disparity in funding is increasingly a threat to our democracy – a threat that will go on growing for as long as we allow only minimal public funding of political campaigning and leave the running to those with access to the deepest pockets.

It is only occasionally that the lid is lifted on what is really happening. Mr Holden has done us a service by revealing the truth – and alerting us to the very real danger that completely unrepresentative minority views can exercise a disproportionate and hidden influence on how our country is run.

It might have been hoped that the National Party would be particularly alert to the dangers. They have, after all, been burnt in the past by their willingness to take money from donors with a purely sectional interest. Have they so quickly forgotten Don Brash’s disastrous flirtation in 2008 with the Plymouth Brethren?
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April 12, 2016 3:39pm
tom hunter

Kimbo (5,583 comments) says:
April 12th, 2016 at 3:39 pm

(That’s your cue, tom hunter, once you’ve exhausted Apollo 13 quotes!:

Yeah …..

…. I think I’m done flogging that horse.

The only trouble is that Back To The Future is kind of done as well since commentator Waihana pointed out that

“We are living in an alternate timeline where Biff Tannen is rich, powerful and running for President.”

You can’t really get past that to the hopelessness that is the NZ Labour Party.
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April 12, 2016 3:45pm
waikatosinger

Houston, we are venting something out into space. I can see it outside window 1 right now, it’s definitely a gas of some sort, it’s got to be the missing millions.
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April 12, 2016 4:18pm
waikatosinger

These guys are talking about bangs and shimmies up there; doesn’t sound like a polling error to me.
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April 12, 2016 4:19pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Just leave chicken Little alone. He is National’s ticket to fourth term.
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April 12, 2016 5:09pm
sooty

Dead man walking!
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April 12, 2016 5:17pm
tvb

We are witnessing the strange death of the Labour Party as all the weirdos take over.
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April 12, 2016 8:56pm
deadrightkev

Nostra

The Standard (who I never read because their opinion is all so ghastly and predictable) has a point regarding John Key having done very little for NZ in seven years.

Of course a Little Labour would have achieved as much and with the help of the Greens a tad more to sink us as a nation a bit faster.

Few on KB will agree with my comments. I would just love one sycophant to tell me what John Key has done for NZ.
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April 13, 2016 12:20pm
Benoni

Nostra

I will bite.
1 John Key has led a stable , corruption free, government in a MMP environment while accruing a personal popularity that is a record under NZ’s mmp electoral system and is probably an NZ record outright.
2 John Key has led a government that has balanced national income with spending, has freed up an economy to achieve both economic growth and increasing employment with very low inflation, introduced spectacularly successful charter schools, funded a close but ultimately unsuccessful america’s cup series, and was in charge when we won 2 rugby world cups.
3 John Key donates his Prime Minister’s salary to charity and serves NZ for no personal gain. This simple act so infuriates his political opponents that they have been rendered totally impotent and futile and there is no serious challenge to a fourth John Key national government.
4 John Key is a really nice personable guy, he is an excellent debater in the house and has no challengers to his excellent leadership of the national party. The major drawback to his leadership of a democratic country is his lack of a credible opposition which he has engineered by encroaching on more and more of the centre left political spectrum.
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April 13, 2016 3:39pm
deadrightkev

Benoni

I’m serious about John Key. I don’t make comments to piss people off. I don’t have time to respond right now but I will.

You are a good example of someone that has no real clue when it comes to understanding what real leadership entails.
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April 14, 2016 9:50am

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General Debate 19 April 2024
imalwaysright
General Debate 19 April 2024
Flossie
Are those with access cards the problem?
the deity formerly known as nigel6888
Are those with access cards the problem?
WorthwhileAucklandInitiative

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Breaking Views Update: Week of 14.4.24
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No Right Turn
"Under a better Resource Management system [sic], there would be no need for fast-track approval processes."
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Daily review 19/04/2024
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Again, hate crimes are not necessarily terrorism.
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Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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