General Debate 7 April 2017

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duggledog

Why Alan Duff Is Wrong

In his article this week about the perennial New Zealand problem –

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11830835

Duff says education is the key to turning back the tide of violence, resentment and poor outcomes for Maori.

Well, the modern New Zealand education system is largely the root cause of the problem.

As evidenced by many of us in our day-to-day lives, many Maori have been gradually inculcated over the years with the idea that their land was stolen, and all their ills can be laid at the feet of white Europeans.

Certainly, a portion was, hence the settlements, but when you’re an angry 14 year old Maori teenager, you may not bother with the specifics.

We will see an increasing number of Maori refusing to acknowledge the court system; refusing to engage with Police unless they’re Maori, and doing whatever they like wherever they like ‘because this is my land’. It’s too late to stop this.

In the same way National Radio’s entire discussion content on all its major platforms routinely gives voice to pro BLM, pro LGBT, pro gay marriage, pro Maori grievance, anti Trump, anti capitalism, anti Brexit matter etc there is cumulative effect.

Make no mistake, anybody who’s trained to be a teacher knows they must treat Maori differently, reverently, and infuse almost everything with Maori culture, all the better to ease their path towards good citizenry. With the best of intentions.

But – I believe modern New Zealand schools enable and engineer massive disappointment for young Maori when they’re spat out the other end replete with entitlement, resentment and unreasonable expectations.
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April 7, 2017 8:01am
- holysheet
  
  Appeasement never works for anyone. Better to be upfront and tell them exactly how it is and how it will be done. That way every one knows where they stand.
  
  Even kids understand right from wrong. It’s when they are let to get away with doing wrong that the trouble starts.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:08am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “…many Maori have been gradually inculcated over the years with the idea that their land was stolen, and all their ills can be laid at the feet of white Europeans.”
  
  Good. I have no doubt that industrious Chinese, Indians, Japanese, South Koreans, Filipinos, Cambodians, Vietnamese will be happy for Maori to continue to think this way.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:30am
- doggone7
  
  Surely the ‘modern New Zealand education system’ is the result of the efforts of the ruling classes over generations. The politicians they’ve elected, and kept accountable, the opportunities taken to be involved with developing curriculum, the direct involvement with the schooling of their own kids, the active participation in local school committee and board affairs and effort to engage positively in educational debate in meaningful ways.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:05am
- cmm
  
  “Make no mistake, anybody who’s trained to be a teacher knows they must treat Maori differently, reverently, and infuse almost everything with Maori culture, all the better to ease their path towards good citizenry. With the best of intentions.”
  
  It is certainly really bad in teaching, but it even comes up in engineering.
  
  Compulsory engineering courses with names like “professional engineering” end up using a semester on how to feed the taniwha and how to design buildings to fit in with Maori culture.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:11am
  - mikenmild
    
    Because engineering isn’t real engineering unless it fits completely within currently dominant cultural perspectives.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:13am
    - cmm
      
      Yup. Don’t worry about all that Pakeha bullshit about gravity etc.
      
      Bridges fall down because the taniwha is angry or you didn’t paint the right koru pattern on it.
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:23am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Almost right, it is pay the taniwai
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:28am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Just thought, now the Wanganui river is a living entity, does this cement the taniwai’s status as some form of parasitic tape worm
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:35am
      - mikenmild
        
        You deliberately misinterpret me. I wouldn’t want to overstate the case, but other cultural perspectives can be useful, even in quite technical fields. That doesn’t mean ignoring other sources of knowledge, just complementing them.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:37am
      - Longknives
        
        I’m always fascinated at how an Ancient Beast like the Taniwha can be so intelligent it understands the concept of ‘Bucketloads of the White Man’s money’ and will disappear once appeased!
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:08am
      - cmm
        
        mm: Please tell me of one or two of the wonderful Maori contributions to engineering which come through awareness of the taniwha etc.
        
        If they are valid engineering they are already incorporated in the “normal” engineering syllabus that uses maths, physics etc.
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:41am
      - mikenmild
        
        You are still missing the point. It is not that there are specific Maori insights into engineering, but that engineering, like other technical accomplishments, is at the service of humans.
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:50am
      - cmm
        
        So, mm, you say the taniwha and Maori need different bridges to white people?
        
        They did that in South Africa. It was called apartheid.
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:58am
      - mikenmild
        
        I didn’t say that, or even imply that. But keep on swinging at that straw man – it’ll be knocked over eventually.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:55am
      - cmm
        
        Sorry mm, I’m not creating the strawman.
        
        You’re the one insisting that “other cultural perspectives can be useful, even in quite technical fields”
        
        Just give me two examples in civil engineering, or electronics, or aeronautics, …
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:02pm
    - cmm
      
      Engineering isn’t cultural. Nor does it care about gender, feeling, etc.
      
      It deals in facts, maths, physics etc.
      
      The normal engineering syllabus is not Pakeha. It is not “pro-white”. It is not “pro-male”. It does not need to be balanced by femism, Maori studies etc.
      
      The only way you can “balance” facts is with bullshit.
      
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      April 7, 2017 10:56am
      - mikenmild
        
        You asked for an example. One would be the guidelines addressing cultural safety in medical practice. Another would be architecture referencing
        Maori or Polynesian traditions in the design of buildings.
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:08pm
- jims_whare
  
  Angry 14 year old Maori boys aren’t angry because their great grand dad had his land pinched.
  
  He is angry because for the past 14 years he has been sexually abused by Uncle Bully, beaten up by mum’s third boyfriend, has never had much food to eat, can’t read or write, and has been told that he is a piece of trash.
  
  Anger over historic land issues doesn’t even factor into his thinking.
  
  By age 14 he is damaged goods and if he survives to 30 without doing a long lag then he may be able to think for himself if he hasn’t already repeated the same damaging behaviour that he experienced.
  
  Education is part of the solution but not the current education treadmill.
  
  You need a separate curriculum that starts at the beginning again:
  
  Basic writing
  Basic reading
  Simple arithmetic.
  Life skills – paying bills, cooking food, driving a car.
  Confidence skills – how to talk to people, look people in the eye, job interview skills.
  Relationship skills – women are not just for rooting and bashing.
  Politeness/manners – simple things taught.
  
  Kind of like some of the charter schools do.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:41am
  - GoVege
    
    Careful Jim, you’ll have NW on your case, accusing you of having an “agenda” and “needing” to feel superior to Maori.
    Oh, hang on, you’re safe, she probably reserves her fury only for white females.
    I think they call it “horizontal hostility “. 🙂
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:17am
    - Northland Wahine
      
      Oh you are so wrong veg. I have buggar all patience for exaggerated statistics that never existed and embellished stories. ?
      
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      April 7, 2017 10:23am
      - GoVege
        
        My stats may have been out, but you’ve got to admit they’re pretty bad for Maori girls on the sole parent benefit.
        I put most of it down to the sexism in Maori culture and irrational beliefs like “every child is a gift from God.”
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:50am
      - Northland Wahine
        
        For the record veg, that wasn’t one.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:54am
      - GoVege
        
        Why, NW?
        Do you also subscribe to the belief that “every child is a gift from God”, and it’s a good thing that Maori girls aged 13-17 have 4 times the birth rate of any other ethnic group, as Dame Tariana apparently told Pakeha not too long ago?
        James Whakaruru and Lilybing had parents in their early teens.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:20pm
      - Northland Wahine
        
        Veg, you make yourself look petty, angry, sexist and racist.
        
        You assume your approval of my post validated my opinion? Why? Because you’re a male? You expect me to be responsible for another Maori wahine’s opinion? You think because I’m a Maori wahine, I share her opinion? Have I ever implied that teen pregnancies, Maori or not is a good thing?
        
        Calm down veg. Seriously, you make yourself look ridiculous plus all the things you accuse me of.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:30pm
      - GoVege
        
        When do I call you names NW?
        I just asked you your opinion on some of the attitudes of Maori that contribute to their negative stats.
        You’re a social worker aren’t you?
        You know you are not even permitted to mention contraception to your clients.
        Why don’t you and other Maori social workers protest being censored in this manner?
        How can Maori stats ever improve when vulnerable Maori women and girls are not even permitted to be advised on the benefits of contraception?
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:06pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Even I can call bullshit on that claim. Are all vegetarians, like you and Hitler, foaming racists?
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:11pm
      - GoVege
        
        It’s true, milky.
        I was told it by a social worker I rang because the solo mum of 8 next door was pimping out her 15 year old daughter.
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:37pm
      - GoVege
        
        BTW milky, Hitler only took up vegetarianism briefly in order to improve his health sufficiently to achieve his dream of world conquest.
        Why don’t you mention the true vegetarians who stopped eating animals for ethical reasons, such as Voltaire, Leonardo da Vinci, Tolstoy, Einstein, etc?
        Or would that invalidate your argument?
        
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        April 7, 2017 2:12pm
  - Northland Wahine
    
    Jim whare…those basic skills are what are missing. They’re not going to grasp anything more complex until the basics are dealt with.
    
    I have clients that come in wanting $300 food grants to feed a family of 3. That should feed them for a fortnight if budgeted right. But they don’t budget. They don’t know how because they don’t have basic math skills. Or cooking skills. I’d wager that the majority of families on a benefit don’t have a menu planned for the week and in reality there’s no point. Because the majority would not sit st the table as a family to eat dinner. I’d wager these kids would be lucky to get 2 cooked meals a week.
    
    By the time they’ve hit their teens, most Maori kids know how to drive a car. They’ve picked those skills up with console games. Do they know their rode code? Nope. Lucky to have a licence. You need a warranted and rego car for that. Sure, the Asian kid down the road has his own car coz his parents brought it for them. That’s their perception whether it’s the truth or not. It’s insured right? So it won’t matter if it gets stolen because the insurance will cover it.
    
    Duggle is right. The current education system is spitting out angry entitled and resentful young Maori. However they are actually better and more informed than previous generations. Trouble is too many are not employable. Which builds on that resentment. And if you can’t get what you need or even want because you have no money, you’re going to fall back on to entitlement.
    
    The best thing that could happen for Maori and New Zealand has a while, is to scrap any benefit until you’re 25. Put the onus back onto families, extended families.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:22am
    - GoVege
      
      Now that’s what I call a reasonable post, NW!
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:02am
      - Northland Wahine
        
        I’ll let you know when you do one too, veg.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:06am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Don’t be patronising.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:14pm
    - cmm
      
      NW: First off, my most profound apologies for getting your gender wrong the other day.
      
      I think you are right. The benefit is highly destructive of both families and individual gumption.
      
      I grew up in Africa and often interacted with people who never went to school, never had welfare and yet managed to budget (to the extent of figuring out their food needs) and feed their kids etc.
      
      The ability of people to interact as a group has diminished, particularly since the mid 1970s. It is much harder to get people interested in responsibility, all they want are their “rights”.
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:09am
      - Northland Wahine
        
        No worries cmm… I’m wondering if I got veg’s gender wrong. I was under the impression he was a Samoan male but his earlier comment today…
        “Oh, hang on, you’re safe, she probably reserves her fury only for white females.
        I think they call it “horizontal hostility “. ”
        
        Not sure what fury veg was referring to, but me thinks veg is an angry white female! ?
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:16am
      - GoVege
        
        I just get angry when I see Maori girls abused and Maori boys ending up in gangs because their parents took no interest in them, NW.
        Like a sweet little Maori girl I used to babysit who told me she wished I was her mum…and had a baby at 14.
        Samoan male!!
        Yes I know they make a few derogatory comments about Maori but I always see them helping Maori out too.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:03pm
      - GoVege
        
        That’s very interesting, cmm.
        Yonks ago I attended a talk given by a man from Africa.
        I recall him saying his people didn’t want hand-outs because they “destroy the moral fibre”.
        Don’t think that went down too well with my lefty friends.
        I used to dole out money to people begging at shopping centres.
        Lately I’ve noticed they are always there and getting more obese, so I don’t anymore.
        I reckon human society has to have a few basics right to function.
        Every able-bodied person should work unless they are caring for kids, elderly or disabled.
        When the British Labour party was established, they wanted a minimum wage that would support a man, his wife and two kids.
        Now we have people who expect other people to pay for them to have 10 or more kids.
        This can only be a path to national bankruptcy.
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:19pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Gee its hard when there is no reply button on a post, it was Govege whose comment was patronising to Northland Wahine, just in case there was doubt.
        Govege, being a vegetarian doesn’t seem to have given you a pleasant disposition, perhaps you are missing some key chemical elements that you would get from meat. We are omnivores by evolution I believe.
        You do seem to attack Northland Wahine a lot, just because she identifies herself as Maori that does not mean that she is responsible for all of their ills, nor is it easy to make yourself a potential target for any anti-Maori rhetoric.
        Northland Wahine I also appreciate that you do not need others to speak for you, and that is not my intention.
        
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        April 8, 2017 7:23am
    - jims_whare
      
      NW, I pretty much agree with you on describing much of the problem.
      
      The government has a monopoly on these kids lives for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week for at least 10 years.
      
      It is a waste that vulnerable Maori kids (especially boys) are basically earmarked for failure from day one due to their substandard family environments.
      
      Throwing an abused and neglected kid with no idea of how to write his/her name into a noisy class of 20 other kids already 10 steps ahead is to set them up for failure.
      
      The kid responds to bulling and mockery with defensive measures of anger and lashing out.
      
      This then pidgeon-holes them as ‘bad-uns’ and they get pushed to the back of the class/dunces’ class and everyone secretly can’t wait until they drop out.
      
      If Bill English really wanted to make a proper social investment work he would do the following:
      
      1 Use his social indicators to identify Maori kids at risk. (Benefits/involvement with WINZ/CYFS etc.) (Not just Maori either – of any ethnic background)
      2 Encourage/coerce these Maori kids to attend schools which are focused on teaching the basics to the kids as I listed above.
      3 Reduce class numbers in these schools to at least 1 teacher to 10 kids or so.
      4 Include a significant part of the curriculum to practical training – fitness, trades, verbal skills etc.
      
      I know a 9 year old Pacific Island boy who attends the Vanguard academy in Auckland.
      
      When I talk with him, he shakes our hand, looks you in the eye, and speaks with confidence and clarity.
      
      I ask him about his school work and he rattles off a list of things he has been up to. (No eyes down and muttering ’nuffin’) Video games have no part in his life.
      
      To me every Maori/PI/European kid has the ability to attain the same level of confidence – why they don’t is a stain on our education/social system.
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:24am
      - Northland Wahine
        
        agrees Jims whare… the investment approach needs to be invested BEFORE they leave school. Pick up on those learning disabilities that seem to plague Maori youth. The amount of drug/alcohol fetal syndrome in 18-24 year olds I’m seeing is scary.
        
        I had a young 22 year old last week, home schooled from 11 years old, supposedly achieved ncea level 1, has been on a numeracy and literacy course, passed that, 2 other service providers course and revealed at our first appointment that she can barely read or write. Her mother completed her school work and assignments. Investing extra money and time now when it should have been poured in at primary school.
        
        We have to have at least 3 discussions with a parent that brings her school aged child to interviews during school hours before we can comfortably broach the issue of truancy. And then we run the risk of the child being left st home by themselves.
        
        And too often introducing yourself, a simple hi, is met as you know, barely a grunt. I normally continue these interviews in complete silence until they ask why they’re there. And then I thank them for acknowledging my presence. Longest stretch of silence has been 15 minutes so far.
        
        It saddens me that teaching a young adult basic manners has been left to a stranger.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:44am
      - cmm
        
        NW: I am curious.
        
        When you say “homeschooled” was that proper homeschooling or was it correspondence schooling?
        
        The vast majority of real home schoolers are incredibly motivated to provide their kids with top education. There are unfortunately a few who use it as a way to opt-out.
        
        Most real home schooled kids go on to great things and far outperform their peers.
        
        Correspondence school is unfortunately lacking in any real testing etc and is a very mixed bag on outcomes. ie. It is possible to get a good education, but it is certainly not guaranteed. Like all schooling you only get out what you put in. Just with correspondence school there is no way to check what you’re putting in.
        
        We homeschooled both our kids and they have doe exceptionally well. They did, however, do chemistry through correspondence school. Both did really well in that but only because they were both highly motivated.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:14pm
      - GoVege
        
        Unfortunately there are some racist teachers doing a lot of harm.
        I knew one who bullied non-white kids and even teachers.
        He eventually left to become DP of a predominantly Maori school.
        Poor kids….
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:31pm
      - Northland Wahine
        
        Cmm, the client stated it was home schooling because her mother couldn’t get her to go. So some kind of agreement must have been agreed upon with the ministry. I also suspect she had been suspended multiple times from multiple schools and there are only so many schools in our area.
        
        and yes cmm, I know of many a home schooled child that excel in their chosen profession. With awesome social skills to boot ?
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:44pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        You can take a horse to water but not make him drink as they say.
        
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        April 8, 2017 7:37am
  - KevOB
    
    And no pot.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:36am
  - waikatogirl
    
    And, financial literacy, how to manage money.
    How to cook cheap, healthy meals.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:46am
  - Northland Wahine
    
    Sighs… veg…
    
    I’m a Case Manager and a foster parent (tho not for cyfs)
    
    If you think case managers sit meekly and mildly while policy and legislation is delivered, you’re mistaken. Being vocal in a meeting is one thing. Voicing your opinion to the public, is another. No if, no buts. It’s called instant dismissal.
    
    I actually do a lot of good in my job veg, as do many of my colleagues. There are rewarding days and absolutely shit days. And with it being election year, it feels like a free for all. However, there is genuine need out there and it’s those a good case manager wants to help.
    
    And veg, feel free to scroll as to why I think Maori have such negative stats. I’ve given my opinion many a time. Even directly to you. You choose not to read of acknowledge them. You appear more interested in being confrontational. Which is perfectly fine. But if you feel the need to butt heads please come equipped with a back bone. The …”she’s being mean to me”whine is tiresome.
    
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    April 7, 2017 1:34pm
    - GoVege
      
      I’m sure you do do a lot of good, NW, and I have acknowledged that.
      But the #1 thing IMHO holding Maori back is their failure to use contraception.
      In all my interactions with Maori, they all treat having umpteen kids as some incredible achievement to be supremely proud of.
      You are a strong and eloquent Maori woman.
      Why don’t you and others speak up more?
      I’m sure you “voice your opinion ” on some topics to clients.
      It’s election year…why don’t you demand the right to mention contraception?
      I’m sure Anne Tolley will back you.
      I think she mentioned it herself but predictably got howls of “genocide!!” from Maori organizations.
      As for your personal attacks that are too numerous to mention:
      Your inability to understand the difference between legitimate debate and personal abuse makes me wonder if this is the reason I have overheard some Maori mums saying such awful things to their daughters.
      
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      April 7, 2017 2:00pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @NW
      
      The best advice I ever had on this blog concerning one commenter was to step over him.
      There’s no need to respond to someone who is being deliberately rude and provocative. We can all see what is occurring.
      
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      April 7, 2017 2:08pm
      - GoVege
        
        Well it’s easier than answering a straight question anyway…
        
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        April 7, 2017 5:44pm
- Fletch
  
  One of my relatives made a remark the other day which could be taken as racist, but he has a point. That is, that Maori are not many generations out of living a bush/native lifestyle and are still not used to European ways and styles of living. For instance, many struggle when put in charge of anything where money is involved and often misuse the position, etc. As I said, it does sound racist but does have a logic. It takes a long time to adapt to a European society which has had many more hundreds of years of living and working a certain way.
  
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  April 7, 2017 11:42am
  - sam green
    
    “many struggle when put in charge of anything where money is involved and often misuse the position”
    
    Many Europeans struggle too. Who were those ACC managers in court recently?
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:22pm
  - cmm
    
    “Maori are not many generations out of living a bush/native lifestyle and are still not used to European ways and styles of living.”
    
    Sorry Fletch, I don’t buy that.
    
    Many, if not most, Maori have large % of European blood. Thus it is not a matter of giving Maori time to “evolve” to western ways. In fact it is the other way around: as Maori values have been put on a pedistal, things have got worse.
    
    We have the constant hammering that Maori ways are better and to be valued more highly than Western ways. That leads to Maori/PI kids being mocked for “acting white” whenever they try to do something useful with their lives (apart from sport etc).
    
    To be seen as a successful Maori means pushing the fact that you are Maori (if only 10% Maori) ahead of your Western values.
    
    This is something that has gone backwards in the last 60 years.
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:24pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I agree; I believe pre European Maori were either kings with their coteries, or slaves with not a lot inbetween.
    
    Forward 200 years and it looks pretty much the same although the titles may have changed
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:29pm
    - GoVege
      
      That’s because the Maori party want to return our country to the Polynesian Paradise that existed before the Pakeha arrived.
      For a while we were held back by some Uncle Toms who wanted Maori to become westernized (who was that Maori guy who used to be on one of our notes?), but now we are set on the right track…..back to the eighteenth century… (:
      
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      April 7, 2017 5:51pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Islamists want to take us back further than that.
        
        I think that the term ‘Uncle Toms’ is offensive.
        The use of it is purely provocative, why?
        
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        April 8, 2017 7:47am
stigie

Got a call from Roy Morgan last night to answer their political poll and various other questions…..

I reckon i’ve put Labour back one whole percentage point. Damn !~
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April 7, 2017 8:01am
- holysheet
  
  Only one?
  You didn’t do it right if that the best you could do.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:05am
  - stigie
    
    Steady as she goes as the actress said to the bishop holysheet..?
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:13am
- Biscuit
  
  I’m shocked, stigie.
  
  You mean you WEREN’T enraptured by:
  
  Angry Andy’s stunning ‘It were me vs. the Rich Pricks’ Court testimony?
  
  The Memorandum of Understanding between Labour and the Greens?
  
  That stellar front bench Labour parades in Parliament each Question Time?
  
  The incredible depth of talent their whole Parliamentary team offers?
  
  The prospect of that saint, Trevor Mallard, getting to be Mr Speaker?
  
  That pretty red fern logo they have?
  
  Jacinda’s smile?
  
  Like I say, I’m shocked, stigie!
  
  Heh heh …
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:16am
  - G152
    
    Why, one doesn’t wonder, there was no mention on TVs fake news as to the downward spiral in a certain courtcase?
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:21am
    - sooty
      
      Only tv’s fake news! What about the rest of them?
      
      17 0
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      April 7, 2017 8:30am
    - kowtow
      
      Interesting , as I haven’t been watching recently. Contrast with their obsession over all things Colin Craig.
      
      19 1
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      April 7, 2017 8:37am
    - oldpark
      
      Not forgetting there are 230 Liebour /Green Party sycophants in TVNZs so called newsroom.
      
      23 1
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      April 7, 2017 8:39am
    - VicParking
      
      The silence this morning at a MSM outlets is deafening.
      
      24 0
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      April 7, 2017 8:41am
      - RF
        
        Not quite correct. I was trolling through some AM radio stations this morning and one was having a laugh at Angrys new fairy land defence…. they actually called him Mr. potato head.
        
        Unfortunately I lost the station. It was around 9am.
        
        There is hope…
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:28am
    - howitis
      
      I recorded the 6pm news on #thre$#& to visually see the flooding.
      Poor coverage to be fair.
      I fast forwarded to see if there was coverage on randy Andy’s court case.
      The misleading toads stated clearly that Mr Little apologised two times and it was not accepted.
      There was NO statement let alone suggestion that it was too late and too low.
      
      Golly gosh I would like to think these toads are returned back to the creeks and swamps whence they came within 5 years when their toady little world collapses and inflated ego-related salaries dry up.
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:29am
      - GazzaW
        
        The worst and most biassed court reporting since John Banks. Can’t wait for tonights efforts. If Little loses he will be portrayed as a martyr of the system about to lose his home and if he were to win the news presenters will be truly orgasmic. There must be two versions of ‘Nation’ in the can.
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:55pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Stigie:
  
  You should pop over here:
  
  We’re ready to change the Government — donate now if you’re ready too.
  
  Select an Amount
  $4 $10 $32 $50 $100 $250
  Other $0.00
  
  My suggestion would be “Other $0.00” – but I don’t think you need any financial advice from me!
  
  20 1
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  April 7, 2017 8:23am
  - stigie
    
    You have always given the best of advice Nostra, but because it’s Labour, im short on cash anyway !~
    
    15 1
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    April 7, 2017 8:34am
  - Garbageman
    
    Ahh yes the socialist way to change the Govt is via cash donations screw all those pesky things like coherent policy intelligent MPs etc who needs those when you can dip into your ever decreasing supporter bases pockets & the unions of course
    
    10 1
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    April 7, 2017 9:55am
  - holysheet
    
    How much of that will be diverted to pay Angry’s bill from the Hagermans?
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:51am
Viking2

Nice day in the Bay. Wet one for some in Edgecumbe.
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April 7, 2017 8:03am
- Paulus
  
  As Bay resident, yes Edgecumbe is a disaster -worse that the 1987 Earthquake there.
  No rain currently or expected but as river bank collapsed – how do you get the water back over the stopbanks to the river ?
  Now I hear this morning – who is going to pay for our house ? – we have no insurance so somebody has got to pay.
  Don’t worry Uncle Bill is on his way this morning – he will pay.
  If it was the Whanganui River then it could pay as it is a person now.
  Guess what Taxpayers, of which there are probably few in Edgecumbe, you gonna pay.
  Somebody said it will be up to those insured that the Insurance Company will fix their repairs – up that’s not really the way it works – an insurance policy pays for damage it is not a builder, and there is now a top limit,decided by the policy holder, – Christchurch/Kaikoura are different as damage from Earthquakes with EQC fronting.
  Where are the builders going to come from – in the BOP they are snowed under with work – it is almost impossible to get a builder, plumber or electrician. Then there is the RMA, and of course the Council.
  So sadly good luck Edgecumbe.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:20am
  - ztev
    
    EQC does the flooding and landslips now. But you have to have some sort of insurance to pay the EQC levey
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:27am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Now I hear this morning – who is going to pay for our house ? – we have no insurance so somebody has got to pay.
    
    The next tragedy will be those people getting bailed out (no pun intended) by the government. It completely sends the message, that insurance is optional, resulting in fewer people taking responsibility for their own lives, instead assuming they’ll be looked after.
    
    Sadly most losses aren’t big public events, so when those people suffer a singular loss (fire, theft) there’s no public outcry, no bailout and the newly uninsured folks are completely stuffed.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:41am
    - howitis
      
      People that commit crimes against people or property and are caught and convicted may end up with jail time.
      They have chosen to not follow society norms and this is the result.
      
      Those who choose to not follow society norms for whatever reason and not take out property insurance MUST NOT be rewarded for anti social behaviour.
      
      They live in a flood plain and just as a house alarm is a layer against burglary, not a guarantee, a stop bank is a barrier to flooding but not a guarantee.
      There needs to be another path way eg was the stopbank of suitable standard and is there liability from another source that can be pursued.
      
      This paying out to the uninsured who choose not to contribute to society must stop.
      They are not paying to the fire service levy; they are not paying to the EQC.
      Bugger them. They opted out. No public money.
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:54am
      - GoVege
        
        Most people only take out house insurance because it’s a requirement of getting their mortgage.
        The moment it’s paid off, many of them don’t bother.
        The good thing is, they’ve now got a paid-off home.
        They just need to get a new loan to pay for the damage!
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:24pm
krazykiwi

The self-proclaimed activist heir, and obvious hypocrite, would do better to take trains, or drive, or use a bike given his fearmongering about a CO2-induced climate apocalypse.

Prince Charles takes a huge Boeing 757 with only 38 people for a ‘tour around Europe’

Extract:

The Prince and the Duchess of Cornwall have been conducting soft diplomacy on behalf of the Foreign Office to promote Britain in Italy, Austria and Romania in the run-up to Brexit. It is part of a long-term strategy to use the Royal family to win hearts and minds in the EU.

They are accompanied by an entourage of around 24 people, together with up to a dozen members of the media.

What little sympathy I have for Charles stems from his upbringing. Prince Philip, his father, noted in 1988:

In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving overpopulation.

If my father had said that I’d have gone through life feeling like an unwanted child.
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April 7, 2017 8:06am
- RF
  
  This is the same guy who aspired to be a tampax.
  
  God save the Queen and may she live forever just to keep this tosser off the throne.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:15am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes. While he was married to Di, and shagging Camilla he made some lurid comment to Camilla about “wanting to be her tampon”.
    
    9 2
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    April 7, 2017 8:35am
    - ztev
      
      What ‘ huge B757’, its the same size plane Key takes when he does diplomacy.
      
      You had a own goal
      
      3 32
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      April 7, 2017 9:29am
      - G152
        
        trev, Key is no longer the Prime Minister.
        You have to change your unhealthy fixation
        
        33 1
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        April 7, 2017 9:34am
      - GazzaW
        
        We can presume from your statement that Andy will can the VIP 757 if he becomes PM……………..Tui.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:57am
      - ztev
        
        The point was , its not a huge plane, for these sort of things.
        yes I should have used the past tense for Key
        Ill never reach my bonus points now that hes gone !
        
        1 11
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        April 7, 2017 11:13am
      - dime
        
        umm JK isnt a global warming nutjob like charlie.
        
        a 757 for 38 people makes him an asshole.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:30am
      - Biscuit
        
        ztev, ztev, ztev, ztev, I despair at you, I really do.
        
        A lesson in Grace for you.
        
        The ‘huge B757’ transports our elected Leader to wherever he/she wants to or needs to go to better the interests of the country.
        
        Whether that leader is an evil Tory or a wonderful leftwinger, our Leader deserves to have decent transport.
        
        I am reminded of the 2011 Royal Wedding when some left-wing nutter opined (in another chatroom) that Key should have stayed home (‘think of the millions starving’) and that ‘his whole trip was just more National PR. Key wants to stop being a movie star and start running the country.’
        
        I replied:
        
        Poor John wouldn’t have won with you under any scenario.
        If he’d ‘done a Richie’ and declined, you – and your Leftist pals – would have rubbished him for snubbing our Head of State.
        If he’d got all pally-wally with Julia Gillard, you – and your Leftish pals – would have rubbished him for politicising the occasion…
        There was no ‘PR’ involved. He is our elected Prime Minister, he was invited, he went. If Helen Clark were still Prime Minister, I would have expected her to have gone with her hubby – and for her to have represented us just as ably as Mr Key did…
        Our elected leader staying home would have helped the ‘millions of people’ starving how?
        
        Never got a reply!
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:32pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        broomstick one and broomstick (what the airforce informally called the two 757’s) were purchased for $220million in 2002/3 after Ms Clark’s 2001 flight though Australia was blockaded by unions after the collapse of Ansett causing her some hours of delay.
        
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        April 7, 2017 3:59pm
    - GoVege
      
      That was meant to be a private conversation.
      But Charlie should stay home.
      Nobody wants to see that rottie he drags around with him.
      
      2 1
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      April 7, 2017 1:32pm
- Paulus
  
  And he is a Greenie !
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:20am
  - sooty
    
    King Wingnut!
    
    9 1
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    April 7, 2017 8:33am
    - mikenmild
      
      It’s as if his mission is to discredit forever the concept of hereditary monarchy.
      
      8 1
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      April 7, 2017 9:15am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      No danger of that crown slipping from the royal bonce for sure!
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:41am
- stephieboy
  
  Should the heir to be used this for his whirlwind diplomatic tour ?
  
  https://www.greatnorthernex.com/image/old_bus.jpg
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:17am
MH

Why is it everytime I get my lotto ticket screened at the local dairy the music goes nah nah nee nah nah ?
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April 7, 2017 8:07am
- Lance
  
  The theme tune of the idiot tax
  
  14 1
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  April 7, 2017 8:47am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    That Lance, is very funny, so sad and so true at the same time.
    
    I will be down there tomorrow asking for my money back as the lotto ticket they sold me last week was not fit for purpose as I did not win and am still skint so am entitled to a refund under the sales of goods act.
    
    They will tell me to sling my hook, I will grumble, buy another yellow licence to dream, go home, loose and repeat. It’s what I do ?
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:49am
Nostradamus

A political wedding of sorts at The Standard.

Labour’s leadership team

The Woman’s Weekly piece is gold for Labour (and it has the added benefit of annoying Mathew Hooton). We’re going to be seeing a lot more of Andrew and Jacinda…

Complete with link to photos and a gushing write-up at nowtolove.co.nz (WTF?)

The photo of Andrew Little with his arm around/behind (hard to say) Jacinda Ardern is a bit off-putting!
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April 7, 2017 8:07am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I thought it was creepy and unprofessional…. but some folks over at The Standard love it.
  https://thestandard.org.nz/labours-leadership-team/
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:11am
  - Nostradamus
    
    Maggy:
    
    Alan’s comment caught my eye:
    
    “our special bond – road trips and whisky sessions”.
    Punters scanning the shelves will think they are shagging – doh!
    
    Lprent has been busy waving his ban-stick on that thread – I’m amazed that comment got through!
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:15am
    - pdm
      
      Perhaps they are shagging and Lprent has been watching.
      
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      April 7, 2017 8:23am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yee gods!!!
        
        if you read further on in the Standard comments.. this possibility is raised in terms of the daughter-dad jokes.
        
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        April 7, 2017 8:32am
    - Salacious Crumb
      
      Lprat and his ban stick.I wonder if the likes of ztev and marquess ever consider how that works on the labour organ that is the Standard, when they troll with impunity here.
      
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      April 7, 2017 8:25am
  - Rich Prick
    
    With all of Labour’s factional infighting we know that being nice to each other isn’t in their DNA. All I get from the Woman’s Weekly “love-in” is a creepy Uncle feel.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:02am
    - ztev
      
      Pony tails ! There I fixed the creepy bit for you.
      
      3 30
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      April 7, 2017 9:30am
      - GazzaW
        
        Late night ‘events’ at Auntie Annies, naked male students and Uncle Phil’s cover-ups if you really want to go creepy.
        
        23 1
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        April 7, 2017 10:04am
      - ztev
        
        Its all supressed but one of your Mps took the creepy cake award.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:09am
      - GazzaW
        
        ‘Suppressed’ is the right word. Suppressed by the media, suppressed by the party, suppressed by the beltway ‘establishment’ & suppressed by the cops. It was a disgrace.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:44am
  - Garbageman
    
    Oh gawd I had to go over for a gander something I rarely do these days the place is a ghost town with about 15 people either arguing amongst themselves or with the odd “rwnj” that bothers trying to get a word in although that hate filled OAB cracks me up he is the epitome of a nut job Greenie stalking anyone that doesn’t tow the party line, time for another shower
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:07am
- krazykiwi
  
  Their “it’s more than political” claim fails at the first hurdle.
  
  In addition to roadies and malt, the bond includes “avoiding pineapple on pizza”, a clear reference to Bill English liking pineapple on pizza.
  
  Even when trying to appear warm and casual, the Little-Ardern ‘team’ can’t tell the truth.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:26am
  - ztev
    
    Plenty of pizzas have pineapple, that story would be done a few weeks back, before Bills -Im not not a machine story-
    Your tinfoil ‘outrage hat’ is a bit too tight.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:33am
- Longknives
  
  Crowing about ‘Whisky Sessions’ on the cover of a popular magazine?
  Outrage!.. They are clearly promoting ‘Binge Drinking’ culture ..Wont someone please think of the Children?
  
  (*Can you just imagine if this was National’s Leadership Team?)
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:51am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    The difference when drinking whiskey with the Nats, is that the top stays on the Coke
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:56am
  - dime
    
    if they are trying to appeal to the waitakere man.. wouldnt these 2, full of shit, elites be better saying – bourb session?
    
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    April 7, 2017 11:32am
- Paulus
  
  Isn’t there a Department which looks into publically online pictures of old men with their arms round a much younger woman ?
  Have to laugh though – my wife thinks the whole thing is Ugh !
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:55am
  - ztev
    
    You mean the Hagamans ?
    
    2 29
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    April 7, 2017 9:33am
  - cha
    
    pictures of old men with their arms round a much younger woman
    
    Such a lovely couple.
    /
    
    1 13
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    April 7, 2017 9:45am
    - mikenmild
      
      You shouldn’t be allowed to post a picture of a guy with his granddaughter and pretend they are a couple.
      
      1 15
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      April 7, 2017 10:00am
- niggly
  
  Bwahaha The Standard’s credibility suffers again, let me see they would normally diss the likes of The Women’s Weekly as being lightweight read for vacuous readers, but when it features a creepy cover picture of their leadership and a weird puff piece story all of a sudden the magazine is promoted as being a good thing!
  
  It’s not like the Standard were being satirical by highlighting another vacuous article for vacuous people, were they? Hey maybe they were after all the key ingredients are there … an angry man trying to better himself being supported by an airhead? If so gee thanks The Standard good to let slip what you really think of Labour’s leadership team 🙂
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:19am
  - chris
    
    And imagine the sneering that would go over at The Standard if the article was about Bill English and Paula Bennett instead…
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:12am
- 4077th
  
  Ah yes, Jacindarella, the saviour of the dammed. Prince Angry will need to find the special shoe though it won’t be hard to find. A quick trip to the trotting track and he will find them all over the place…just need to find one that fits. All this aside, I’m surprised Angry managed to extract his feet from his mouth long enough for an interview 🙂
  
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  April 7, 2017 11:08am
Viking2

Ah so this will piss of a few today.

Internet mogul Kim Dotcom plans to launch a Bitcoin payments system for users to sell files and video streaming as he fights extradition to the United States for criminal copyright charges.

The German-born entrepreneur, who is wanted by US law enforcement on copyright and money laundering allegations related to his now-defunct streaming site Megaupload, announced his new venture called ‘Bitcontent’ in a video posted on Youtube.

“You can create a payment for any content that you put on the internet…you can share that with your customers, with the interest community and, boom, you are basically in business and can sell your content,” Dotcom said in the video.

He added that Bitcontent would eventually allow businesses, such as news organisations, to earn money from their entire websites.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/91262112/kim-dotcom-announces-new-venture-for-content-uploaders-to-earn-money

No doubt the card companies will now want to nobble him. Will the PM approve another raid?
Helicopters and Ninja’s.

Probably not as they are in the crap with their fair weather friends in the Maori Party. Handing NZ to a few.
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April 7, 2017 8:08am
- G152
  
  Turn off his internet link.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:24am
MH

There’s a rumour going round in the Edgecumbe that locals were aware there was a Charlton Heston lookalike ordering timber in cubits and pets were disappearing…..
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April 7, 2017 8:10am
Longknives

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11833459

“Kapa haka group leader Wetini Mitai-Ngaatai said group members were very unhappy about the use of the image, which showed them taking pride in their culture and connecting to their historical roots”
“you must have your own cultural identity. How can you appreciate other people, cultures, races if you don’t appreciate yourself?”

Quite right Mr Mitai Ngaatai- People should take pride in their Culture,Heritage and History!
Just like those young Students in Auckland who formed a European Heritage and History group!
Oh Wait..
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April 7, 2017 8:12am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Longknives, What they are really unhappy about is the John Ansell’s racist comments. I know professionals who are proud of their Maori history and culture.
  
  Don Brash has made a mistake having anti-Maori racist linked in with Hobson’s Pledge. One token Maori does not excuse the anti-Maori racist who defend a convicted rapist and arsonist because he is anti-Maori.
  
  I agree with you about young Students in Auckland who formed a European Heritage and History group.
  
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  April 7, 2017 12:50pm
Chuck Bird

I wonder how long the jury will take.

Little v Hagamans: Ailing hotelier centre of closing arguments
6:55 PM Thursday Apr 6, 2017

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11833421
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April 7, 2017 8:12am
- mara
  
  Will we see a “Give a Little” to Little?
  
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  April 7, 2017 10:00am
- ztev
  
  “Ailing hotelier ”
  
  Give him a blonde to lean on that should work wonders
  
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  April 7, 2017 11:06am
  - 4077th
    
    Or an attractive intern under the desk? Yeah, that’s right..I said it! Glass houses and stones anyone?
    
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    April 7, 2017 11:16am
- Chuck Bird
  
  The judge’s summation is interesting. I do not like Little’s chances. I feel a little sorry for Little but the jury are told not to and also not to take into account his ability to pay.
  
  Jury deliberating Andrew Little’s defamation trial
  
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/04/general_debate_7_april_2017.html#comments
  
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  April 7, 2017 11:53am
  - Rich Prick
    
    From the Herald article above:
    
    Little had said he would prefer to cover it personally rather than use public funds.
    
    He’d “prefer”? I get the distinct impression we are being readied for Little’s hand in our pockets.
    
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    April 7, 2017 1:45pm
    - Swifty
      
      If it ends up low, he may well pay – if it’s heaps, he’ll touch us up.
      
      That’s how I read it.
      
      3 1
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      April 7, 2017 1:54pm
rightoverlabour

Wilson’s parking facists need to be hounded out of the country…..
I don’t usually wish that companies go bankrupt, but you would battle to get the smile off my face if they did…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/91280245/shoppers-slapped-with-65-parking-fines-for-returning-to-mall-too-soon
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April 7, 2017 8:15am
- Rich Prick
  
  They are not “fines”. Parking companies do not have any statutory (or by-law) authority to issue “fines”. At the very best, they are unsolicited invoices. I’ve never paid one of these things in my life.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:06am
Inandout

Looks like Trump has just got out of bed, because the Dems are calling for his resignation. Shit, anything to keep Rice from getting fried. Divert, divert.
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April 7, 2017 8:16am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  And what has Susan Rice done to deserve” getting fried “?
  
  “President Trump’s wild charge that Susan Rice committed a crime, explained”
  
  “Susan Rice, President Obama’s final national security adviser, has all of a sudden become public enemy No. 1 in Trumpworld. In a Wednesday interview with the New York Times, President Trump suggested that she had criminally misused classified information for political purposes.
  
  “Do I think [she committed a crime]? Yes, I think,” the president told the Times’ Glenn Thrush and Maggie Haberman. “It’s such an important story for our country and the world. It is one of the big stories of our time.”
  
  Trump’s comments are in reaction to a series of recent reports — published in Fox News, Bloomberg View, and elsewhere — that have claimed that Rice asked the intelligence community to provide the names of Trump transition officials who had been caught speaking to foreigners who were under surveillance by US spies. Typically these names are redacted in transcripts, but high-level US officials can request them on occasion — a process called “unmasking.” Even if these reports these are true, there is no evidence that Rice’s behavior was illegal (it’s unclear what crime, precisely, Trump thinks she Rice committed…”
  
  http://www.vox.com/world/2017/4/4/15177640/susan-rice-unmasking
  
  Divert , divert ???
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:46am
  - Inandout
    
    You quote Vox, so how about balancing it out with Fox. This Rice story, as one commentator noted, makes Watergate (15 minutes of missing tapes?) look like a minor transgression. Democrats are thrashing around for anything to destabilise Trump – e.g. ‘Russian connection’and ‘sanctuary cities’. The latter is a vicious attempt to get drop kick Mayors to openly flout Federal laws, even though their citizens are left to face criminal illegals. Democrats are showing their true colours now, and it is not a pretty sight.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:15am
    - stephieboy
      
      Inandout ,
      
      “This Rice story, as one commentator noted, makes Watergate (15 minutes of missing tapes?) look like a minor transgression”
      
      Who was the “commentator” responsible for that piece of over bloated hyperbole ?
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:25am
      - Ross12
        
        The quote is from Dr Sebastian Gorka
        “Losing 14 minutes of audiotape in comparison to this is a little spat in the sandbox in the kindergarten,” Gorka replied.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:35am
      - stephieboy
        
        Dr Sebastian Gorka ? I see he is a member of Trump’s national security advisory and serves as a deputy assistant to the President
        
        hmmm.. !
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:44am
      - cha
        
        Dr Sebastian Gorka
        
        A pretentious fake with ties to Magyar Gárda’.
        
        http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2017/02/14/sebastian-gorka-boston-marathon-bombing-expert-witness/
        
        http://forward.com/news/national/367937/exclusive-controversial-trump-aide-sebastian-gorka-backed-violent-anti-semi/
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:59am
      - Garbageman
        
        Speaking of bloated hyperbole welcome back stephie
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:24am
  - cmm
    
    I’ve been storing up my downticks stephie.
    
    Enjoy!
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:17am
  - Scott
    
    Welcome back stephieboy. Well the investigation should find out whether Susan Rice did anything illegal by unmasking the names of Americans caught in the surveillance of foreign nationals and then leaking those names and that information through the intelligence agency and then on to the mainstream media. The investigation will then find out why Susan Rice unmasked those names?
    
    I would suggest that she was doing that at the specific request of President Obama who has a track record of spying on people he doesn’t like e.g. James Rosen of Fox News. I would suggest that information was gathered and leaked to specifically besmirch the Trump campaign and the Trump transition for political gain.
    
    Therefore what Susan Rice did was inherently political and an abuse of power. Now if it can be found that Obama ordered this then that is an abuse of power. For this he can be impeached. You don’t need a specific criminal act to be impeached, you just need abuse of power.
    
    This looks very bad for the Democrats.
    
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    April 7, 2017 11:06am
    - stephieboy
      
      Scott , I suggest the Democrats and the former President , including Susan Rice , will be unaffected.
      
      Please read more carefully from my Vox link this ,
      
      “….Typically these names are redacted in transcripts, but high-level US officials can request them on occasion — a process called “unmasking.” Even if these reports these are true, there is no evidence that Rice’s behavior was illegal (it’s unclear what crime, precisely, Trump thinks she Rice committed).
      
      The intercepts in question were first revealed to the public by Rep. Devin Nunes in late March, in what’s now widely seen as an attempt to deflect blame away from President Trump’s baseless claim that the Obama administration wiretapped Trump Tower during the campaign. And indeed, many in the conservative media are treating the Rice reports as vindicating the president.
      
      “She participated in the monitoring of the Trump campaign,” Fox News host Tucker Carlson said on his Monday night show. “Let’s drop the euphemisms: Monitoring the communications of your political opponents and then trampling measures designed to protect their identities [is] spying.”
      
      This is incorrect: Revealing the name of transition officials who were caught up in legal wiretaps of foreigners is not the same thing as illegally spying on the Trump campaign. But that has not stopped the Susan Rice story from becoming the dominant story on the American right.
      
      On Monday, Sen. Rand Paul called for Rice to testify under oath, speculating that Obama might have ordered her to unmask Trump officials for unspecified nefarious purposes. On Tuesday, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted that a story on the subject from men’s rights activist Mike Cernovich was worthy of a Pulitzer.
      
      Rice herself, in a Tuesday afternoon appearance on MSNBC, admitted that she had asked for US citizens to be unmasked on several occasions throughout her tenure — though she was cagey about whether any of them were Trump transition team members. But she insisted she had done nothing wrong.
      
      “The allegations that somehow Obama administration officials utilized intelligence for political purposes are absolutely false,” she said. “[Unmasking] is necessary to do my job. … Imagine if we saw something of grave significance about Russia, or China, or anybody else interfering with our political process.”
      
      So who’s right — Trump and his allies, or Rice? Well, the actual experts on intelligence and national security who have followed this story — regardless of their political affiliation — have nearly uniformly backed Rice. They believe there would have been nothing worrisome about Rice asking for the names of Trump officials to be unmasked while in her post as the administration’s top national security official…”
      
      http://www.vox.com/world/2017/4/4/15177640/susan-rice-unmasking
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:28am
      - Scott
        
        Nothing worrisome? Okay let’s move on, nothing to see. First of all we all agree that Susan Rice for whatever reason was involved in spying on the Trump campaign and the Trump transition team. They were spying on Trump! Trump is right, Obama was spying on him!
        
        We can give rationalisations, we can give reasons about Russia, but the fact remains and you have admitted it, that Susan Rice was using the intelligence apparatus to spy on Trump. Therefore Trump is correct. It is not a baseless claim, he was being spied on by the Obama administration.
        
        Glad we’ve cleared that up stephieboy. Should Hillary and Obama both go to jail?
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:09pm
      - mikenmild
        
        No one with any brains is agreeing with the deluded claim that Obama was spying on Trump. What happened is that routine surveillance of Russians collected records of contacts between them and people in the Trump campaign.
        Since information about who the Russkies were talking to would be vital context, it is unsurprising that this information was shared with senior officials.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:28pm
      - Scott
        
        Mikey – let me break down your statement. There was surveillance of the Trump team. You’ve conceded that. Now you can use words such as routine and incidental. But that remains to be seen?
        
        Or one could surmise that the surveillance of the Trump team about Russia was a nakedly partisan intelligence gathering exercise to smear the Trump team about supposedly being in collusion with Russia and to cast doubt on the election result as being hacked by the Russians. Names were unmasked at Susan Rice’s request to embarrass the Trump team and to feed the false narrative of Trump collusion with Russian hacking.
        
        As you know you have been wrong about Trump for 2 years. And I have every confidence that you will be wrong about Trump for the next 8.
        
        Intelligence officials surveilled the Trump transition team. Intelligence officials surveilled Trump for a year. That’s not intelligence gathering about foreign powers, that’s intelligence gathering for the purposes of smearing the Republican candidate and then casting aspersions on his subsequent election to office. This is bigger than Watergate and I look forward to the results of the investigations showing it to be so
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:50pm
      - cha
        
        Intelligence officials surveilled the Trump transition team.
        
        Arse. Members of Trump’s transition team were hoovered up during the lawful surveillance of perceived enemies of the state.
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:56pm
oldpark

Just an example of things to come,if the Lie-bour/Green Party win the 2017 election. Last night their little brothers the Lie-bour/Green Party Wellington City Council ,with Mr Spend other people money Justin Lester proudly announced the rates would only rise by 3.3% as against 5.5%. Whoobie Do. Then standing on his ratepayer gouging soapbox he announced a 12.5% increase per hour for car parking,and a 28% wage increase for cleaners,called the living wage.Last week the same wee flap jaw ,boasted a $90,000,000 earthquake upgrade for a town hall ,long past its use by date. To make things even worse he wants ratepayers in all other areas to pay their cleaners a wage increase of 28% to $20.20 dollars per hour . The ratepayer tax gouging mentality by the Lie-bour/Green Party in the toxiC Wellington City Council ,knows no bounds. When the traffic and car hating Greenie called Iona Pannet wished the council could put on a traffic congestion tax in Wellington as they have in London. Tax gouging schemes as desired by Pannett could be in the Lie-bour/ Green Party agenda, should they get control of the treasury benches in September 23 2017.
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April 7, 2017 8:19am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  And anti-car Pannett thinks the parking fee increase should be much more.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:51am
Happychappy

Will Matt be in Court to hold Andrew’s hand and explain how to beat the system even though you have made a right prick of yourself. Matt has beaten the system for thousands of dollars so his experience will be valuable to the Labour Leader. But just in case they have misjudged the situation I hope Labour can afford the handkerchiefs.
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April 7, 2017 8:19am
- Rich Prick
  
  I wonder whether my theory that bad news always arrives at 4.00pm on a Friday will hold true?
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:43am
  - Happychappy
    
    I would be happy with that, nothing better than watching the Left go apeshit over the weekend starting with Lisa Owen and then Paddy and followed by Corin Dann.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:13am
Nostradamus

A quick visit to the NZ Herald

‘Ungrateful’ teen’s response to mum’s Snapchat birthday gift angers social media

An “ungrateful” teen from the United States is copping backlash on social media over a message exchanged with her mother on her birthday. … The exchange has sparked a storm on social media as users grill the teen over her “ungrateful” response, with one user saying she should feel ashamed.

Serious question: do people sit around on social media and find things to be outraged about? How on earth do you stumble across some random parent-child tiff in the first place – and, having done so, why on earth would you feel the need to get involved?
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April 7, 2017 8:34am
- mikenmild
  
  I would have thought that would be unlike the sensible Kiwiblogger – they just go to the Standard and report here on what has outraged them.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:40am
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    I’m outraged by your lack of outrage Mikey.
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:44am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Given the few comments that actually get posted over on The Standard I think the Standardista should be grateful for any visitors they get from Kiwibloggers. It is very much a failing blog- but then that is what is happening universally to the progressive leftie purveyors of fake news these days.
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Hell, I wasn’t outraged by the comments I read on ‘The standard” this morning… just flabbergasted!
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:22am
  - Northland Wahine
    
    That gave me a good chuckle, cheers.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:48am
- VicParking
  
  The failing newspaper need hard hitting stories like this otherwise they would have to use stories from their award winning journalist team which will loose them more readers.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:54am
- kowtow
  
  Serious question; have our over self glorified members of the much vaunted fourth estate got nothing better to do than watch “social media” and repeat it as news.
  
  I suspect the feminisation of the workplace has a lot to do with this trivialisation of news and current affairs.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:06am
- Fletch
  
  This reminds me of growing up in the good old days without the internet. Yes, we didn’t have as much access to what was going on but that was both a good and bad thing. We didn’t get up into everyone else’s business because we often didn’t know about it.
  
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  April 7, 2017 11:51am
Huevon

The Dems have forced the GOP to go nuclear over Trump’s SCOTUS nom. So, so dumb. With 2 senators per state, flyover country firmly red state and Trump stopping future Dem voters crossing the border, the GOP is going to control the senate for….ever. The Dems have thrown away their leverage. Hooray!

MAGA!
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April 7, 2017 8:36am
- mikenmild
  
  I’m not sure how you equate the further decline of any pretence of bipartisan checks and balances with future GOP electoral dominance.
  In other news, Republican representatives return to their districts for a two week break having accomplished, um – nothing.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:43am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Except lay the ground for the confirmation of Gorsuch to the Supreme Court? That’s a pretty important accomplishment I’d have thought.
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:56am
    - mikenmild
      
      That was the Senate, if you call that an achievement. How has the House got on with implementing the agenda?
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:04am
  - Ross12
    
    No MM. A lot has been accomplished, it is just that most of the MSM don’t reported it. To find out you have watch someone like Hannity who puts up a list every now and then.
    
    5 2
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    April 7, 2017 9:10am
    - mikenmild
      
      But you can’t remember any of those legislative achievements right now and think I should watch Fox News to be told about them?
      
      4 12
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      April 7, 2017 9:17am
      - Ross12
        
        Yeah why not –you might get some balance.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:38am
      - mikenmild
        
        I was hoping you could tell me, b ut maybe you nly have the attention span and memory of the typical Fox viewer.
        But let me know when Hannity is on next so that he can tell me what you have forgotten.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:57am
    - cha
      
      A lot has been accomplished
      
      Yeah, lots.
      /
      
      Bannon out. Nunes out. Flynn out. Sessions recused. We won WH & both houses! Imagine if we lost. GOP would be picking up Dems dry cleaning.— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) April 6, 2017
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:24am
    - Fletch
      
      Trump is trying to roll back as many Obama-era executive rules as he can by the beginning of May when the CRA expires.
      
      https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/barack-obamas-seven-year-presidency/521928/?utm_source=feed
      
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      April 7, 2017 12:00pm
- cha
  
  The Dems have forced the GOP to go nuclear over Trump’s SCOTUS nom.
  
  Nearly 80 Obama nominees were rejected before Reid went nuclear but the first sign of opposition and the GOP snoflakes issue threats.
  
  http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/nov/22/harry-reid/harry-reid-says-82-presidential-nominees-have-been/
  
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  April 7, 2017 10:59am
- Tirebiter
  
  You’re ignorance about the political system in the US has just become legendary.
  
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  April 8, 2017 1:35am
lifesgood

The msm are going ballistic over Bill English’s pizza. Honestly you would think he had declared war on the world. For the record there is nothing wrong with a spaghetti pizza, I mean we eat spaghetti on toast, don’t we? Kids love it. Good on Bill for getting a quick meal together for the family, I bet they devoured it. Imagine the fuss if he’d put up photos of venison, truffles and champagne? The sneerers are not foodies they just hate Bill and National….Msm, surprise, surprise!
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April 7, 2017 8:38am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  Maybe they’re warming up before Andrew Littles serving of humble pie with a side of dead rat.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:40am
- Keeping Stock
  
  No one in the media seems to have realised yet that English was trolling them, and Little and Ardern. It’s all a piss-take on the “whisky and pizza” puff piece in this week’s Woman’s Weekly.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:42am
  - VicParking
    
    Its only “Trolling” if you are on the left.
    In the WW article I see Andry is sitting to the left of the next labour leader.
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:58am
    - Dafixeruppa
      
      and she is his right hand…
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:16am
- Nostradamus
  
  Lifesgood:
  
  The foreign media seem to have over-reacted.
  
  ‘Impeach that man’: US late night comedian responds to Bill English’s spaghetti and pineapple pizza
  
  New Zealand Prime Minister Bill English has copped a vicious mocking from US late night comedian Jimmy Kimmel – for, you guessed it, his controversial spaghetti and pineapple pizza.
  English posted a photo of the polarising culinary creation on his Facebook page on Tuesday, asking people to ‘like’ if they agree with tinned spaghetti on pizza.
  …
  The image made its way around the world, and it caught the attention of Kimmel, who called on New Zealanders to oust English during Wednesday night’s (Thursday NZT) airing of ABC’s The Jimmy Kimmel Show.
  …
  “We can be pretty hard on Donald Trump but they have a guy in New Zealand, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, a gentleman named Bill English, who I think is even worse and I’m going to show you why,” Kimmel said, before showing the audience English’s post. “He put canned spaghetti and pineapples on a pizza – this mother … can I say the F-word?. That is so offensive, that is an act of war. I think he just declared war on Italy. And maybe Hawaii too. I don’t know. Impeach that man immediately, New Zealand. This is why I’ve always preferred Old Zealand.”
  
  What a prize fuckwit.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:44am
  - SGA
    
    Nostradamus
    
    The foreign media seem to have over-reacted.
    
    … from US late night comedian Jimmy Kimmel …
    
    Aren’t you being a little thin-skinned? I’m sure his audience got a laugh out of it, and had forgotten all about it by the next morning.
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:58am
    - Nostradamus
      
      SGA:
      
      I’m sure his audience got a laugh out of it
      
      Ok, if you can find something humorous in what I quoted, then well done. Personally, I thought it was pretty childish stuff, but that’s probably why I don’t watch late-night comedy shows.
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:08am
      - SGA
        
        Nostradamus,
        Plenty of ex-pat Americans in NZ find the concept of spaghetti on pizza (or toast, for that matter) both strange and humorous. I’m not surprised that Kimmel and his audience might as well.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:15am
      - Nostradamus
        
        SGA:
        
        Plenty of ex-pat Americans in NZ find the concept of spaghetti on pizza (or toast, for that matter) both strange and humorous.
        
        Now I’m curious: what do Americans do with their spaghetti? Eat it Italian style?
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:23am
      - SGA
        
        Sorry, just reported you in error.
        Yes, Italian style. Canned pasta (often shapes, circles, etc, from memory) in a tomato sauce is more of a young kids’ food.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:28am
      - Nostradamus
        
        SGA:
        
        That’s interesting. I’m assuming that Americans probably don’t eat a lot of baked beans either, whereas (I think this is uncontroversial) that’s pretty much mainstream NZ food.
        
        A good friend enjoys fish and chip sandwiches. Now, in my book, that’s a category 1 crime against gastronomy. Just goes to show how we all perceive food differently!
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:34am
      - SGA
        
        Stuff like this is product is what I typically think of as canned pasta in the USA (see the related products below it too).
        https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/heinz-alpha-getti-alphabet-pasta-with-tomato-sauce/6000016940566?rrid=richrelevance
        And it would be unusual to use any of these as pizza topping, even for kids.
        The idea of putting beetroot in a hamburger tickles some Americans too, btw.
        (It’s not as though we as NZers find the habits of other countries strange and amusing as well)
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:42am
      - SGA
        
        That’s interesting. I’m assuming that Americans probably don’t eat a lot of baked beans either
        
        Probably more so than canned spaghetti, but some of the canned beans (e.g., Boston Beans) are a bit different from what we would call Baked Beans (thicker and sweeter, from memory).
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:49am
      - SGA
        
        A good friend enjoys fish and chip sandwiches.
        
        Not sure about the fish bit, but chip butties are not unusual in the UK.
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:52am
  - holysheet
    
    Maybe if he had the number of kids Bill has, he would feed them good wholesome food cheaply. Nothing wrong with Bills pizza topping.
    Old habits die hard.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The chef and I thought we would try a deep-dish pizza when we were in Chicago.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_pizza
    
    We found a popular joint and got a table.
    After about 10 min a waiter arrived and recommended the pizza with their home-made bologna. So we ordered that.
    We had a 40 min wait… and were pretty hungry by the time the Pizza arrived.
    It proved to be the worst meal we had tasted in the USA. …and that’s all we could do..
    Tinny tasting tomato sauce, bologna like rancid luncheon sausage and a thick cardboard pastry.
    
    .
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:56am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Our experience with pizza in Chicago was the total opposite; it was superb, but one deep dish between four of us was plenty.
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:01am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Sorry, that was my rouge fat finger. I agree. But the trick to getting portions in the US that we are more familiar with is ordering from the kid’s menu!
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:35am
  - Flash
    
    You should shut up. Showing your outrage only encourages them.
    
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    April 7, 2017 11:07am
- Longknives
  
  Sure it was not exactly ‘Gourmet’ but I’d take Bill’s Spaghetti Pizza over anything The Greens would eat any day!
  Double topping of Lentils and Mungbeans on your Organic Vegan Pizza? Mmmm..
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:46am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    The Greens want to allow only food that is animal-products-free, organic, gluten-free, sugar-free and taste-free.
    
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    April 7, 2017 8:48am
    - VicParking
      
      And paid for by the state.
      
      11 1
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      April 7, 2017 9:00am
      - ztev
        
        And live in his own house and be paid for it by the state, there fixed that for you
        
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        April 7, 2017 9:38am
- SGA
  
  The sneerers are not foodies they just hate Bill and National….Msm, surprise, surprise!
  
  You can’t possibly know that. In my experience, food, wine and coffee snobs come in all political flavours.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:52am
  - lifesgood
    
    I think you missed my point. They are not sneering because the are food snobs, they are sneering because they hate Bill and National. I too know foodies of all political persuasions.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:15am
    - mikenmild
      
      They are sneering because tinned spaghetti (in itself disgusting) is a horrible choice for a pizza topping, made worse (which I hadn’t thought possible) by combining it with pineapple. Nothing political about it – just a crime against taste.
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:20am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Amen
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:11am
      - Ed Snack
        
        I’d say that seems likely that you don’t have children mikenmild. When you prepare food for a family you often have to defer to some extent to what is popular with them.
        
        As an example, I’m not a fan of “Hawaiian” pizza (Ham and Pineapple in most places) but it was my children’s favourite version. So we make that for them – mind you no tinned spaghetti on it though they might have liked it that way, just never tried. They did appreciate tinned spaghetti on toast, but don’t like baked beans served similarly.
        
        They’ve mostly grown out of that, but still like pineapple on pizza.
        
        I reckon that Bill deserves a razzing for his pizza toppings, but it is a joke, some people seem to take both sides of the argument way to seriously. It was, as noted, a piss-take on the “whisky and pizza” love in media release.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:15am
    - SGA
      
      You can’t possibly know that.
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:21am
- waikatogirl
  
  Kiwi kids love tinned spaghetti. It is practically a staple, or it used to be. It is quick and an easy pizza topping for a crowd, throw on some cheese and bacon to make it a gourmet banquet.
  
  Good on ya Bill. More votes in the bag for a down to earth dad feeding his tribe.
  
  I do draw the line at cold spaghetti sandwiches on school lunches though. Ugh. One does need some standards. ?
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:28am
  - mikenmild
    
    Ah staple from the old days. Times were different then:
    
    Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o’clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
    
    But you try and tell the young people today that… and they won’t believe ya’.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:42am
    - waikatogirl
      
      lol, milky. “we had it tough” story, an oldie but a goodie.
      
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      April 7, 2017 9:51am
    - lifesgood
      
      Do you know what, milkenmild? You are booooooring!
      
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      April 7, 2017 10:02am
      - mikenmild
        
        Got any tips on how to be as interesting as you?
        Study accountancy?
        Enrol in a hot yoga class?
        Take a wine tasting course?
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:10am
      - GoVege
        
        Cut that cr*p life’sgood!
        We all love milky here…even when he’s mean to us…
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:54am
    - Garbageman
      
      any quote from Monty Python gains an automatic up vote from me MM
      
      7 0
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      April 7, 2017 10:32am
      - mikenmild
        
        Not Monty Python, strictly speaking – written by Marty Feldman for At Last the 1948 Show.
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:47am
  - Northland Wahine
    
    Cold baked beans are awesome tho!
    
    My 8 yr old moko makes bread baskets in muffin trays with canned spaghetti and sometimes creamed corn. And pizzas from naan bread and left over roast meat and vege. Good wholesome basic cooking and food.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:40am
    - waikatogirl
      
      Ah, NW, the description of your moko’s bread baskets brings back fond childhood memories. My dear old mum could make food stretch for miles. Not much ever got thrown out, but instead was turned into tasty meals, including bread slowly dried in the oven and filled with tantalising tastes… ?
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:03am
      - nasska
        
        My mother always used to say, “Give your food a rinse before you eat it.”
        
        Lovely woman, terrible sandwiches.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:08am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Ahaha, the old send money to the “make Aimee MacDonald a rich person” fund show. That, and the Ethel the Aardvark Goes Quantity Surveying skit.
      
      Dates you a bit Mikey although I also remember avidly watching that as well as The Frost Report; don’t think we had or if we did I didn’t see TWTWTW that preceded TFR.
      
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      April 7, 2017 11:23am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Baked beans are an abomination that sully and pollute all they touch. Though my kids seem to disagree.
      
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      April 7, 2017 4:09pm
waikatogirl

Mirror image with 2 GD’s today. ?
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April 7, 2017 8:45am
Keeping Stock

Is the Labour Party a special kind of stupid? Or is Andrew Little being hung out to dry over the alleged defamation of Mr and Mrs Hagaman?

I ask that, because as of just a couple of minutes ago, the alleged defamatory statement by Little from 16 April 2016 is still able to be found on the Labour Party website.

http://www.labour.org.nz/auditor_general_must_investigate_niue_deal_for_donor

If the jury finds for the plaintiff today, then could legal action be taken against the Labour Party as well, for continuing to facilitate the publication of a defamatory statement? Would one of our resident legal eagles be prepared to provide pro bono advice on this matter? We could even go down the lefties’ route, and crowd-source funding to sue the Labour Party in the run-up to the General Election 😎
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April 7, 2017 8:47am
- Nostradamus
  
  Keeping Stock:
  
  Would one of our resident legal eagles be prepared to provide pro bono advice on this matter?
  
  I’m only a purported lawyer, apparently, so you’re probably best to ask the resident legal eagle Penny for her thoughts. She’s an experienced defamation litigator – let’s not get too hung up on technicalities like the fact that she spectacularly lost the defamation case she brought against the Auckland Council CEO!
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:00am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Thanks for the offer of Ms Bright Nostradamus, but if you don’t mind, I think I’ll take a rain-check and hope a REAL lawyer comes along 😎
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:43am
    - alex Masterley
      
      I think I am a real lawyer. The practicing certificate on my wall suggests i am. Sadly however the law of defamation is not one of my skill sets…
      Although I would have thought best practice would suggest the allegedly defamatory statements should have been removed post haste to avoid issues arising from continued publication.
      
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      April 7, 2017 12:02pm
      - Shaun the Sheep
        
        Don’t be too hard on yourself AM – evidently defamation law isn’t one of the Angry lawyer’s skill sets either.
        
        And they appear to be in maximum sensitivity for legal protocols (complete denial) over at The Strangled anyway. Isn’t there a note from the moderator saying any mention of Angry’s legal predicament will result in immediate blocking?
        
        Like that will make it all go away Pfft
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:25pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It makes no difference if Little wins or loses now.
  
  He has publicly apologised to the Hagamans.
  The fact that the Labour Party website still carries his original statement shows bad faith and indicates Little has poor oversight of the goings-on in his party.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:35am
- Rich Prick
  
  We will find out soon whether the comments complained of are defamatory. What doesn’t need a lawyner nor a jury to decide is whether that website continues to publish them. Someone in Labour has either slipped up, or as is more likely, just handed Little two snapper.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:50am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    My sentiments exactly. And we all know who Labour’s white-anting Snapper King is, don’t we…
    
    7 0
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    April 7, 2017 10:41am
  - Paulus
    
    Listening where I could I am unsure as to the Judge’s direction –
    sounds like keep the settlement fair chaps if you think Little defamed the Hagemans.
    Sounds like also $200,000 plus costs against Angry.
    
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    April 7, 2017 2:31pm
zonic

what ‘s peoples thoughts on the RMA Reform Bill. How can national expect us to vote for them after this? Nick Smith is really killing the parties chance of getting re-elected.

http://www.interest.co.nz/property/86941/rma-reform-bill-passes-maori-party-supports-national-act%E2%80%99s-seymour-lets-rip-rma
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April 7, 2017 8:48am
- Nukuleka
  
  I have already written to my local National list MP to tell her that National will sadly not be getting my party vote in September. In spite of all his failings Winston will be getting my party vote-he is the only one calling this piece of apartheid idiocy for what it is.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:59am
  - VicParking
    
    I also wrote to my MP (Whanganui) but as he can’t read or write it was a waste of time.
    
    11 2
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    April 7, 2017 9:02am
    - ztev
      
      It will go straight in the bin, as they know the swivel eyed loon vote is so tiny
      
      2 18
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      April 7, 2017 11:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  Nick Smith is an idiot, and belongs in the Greens. He is the National MP I’d be happiest to see leave office.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:03am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Holding hands with munter McCully (my mp and I do know he is going)
    
    2 0
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    April 7, 2017 2:24pm
- Longknives
  
  This National voter is disgusted by it! You would have to be a halfwit not to see the disastrous long-term implications this has for NZ.
  Impressive comments from NZ First about getting it repealed.
  Unfortunately I will still vote National (by default) as the prospect of a Labour/Greens Socialist Coalition is too horrific to contemplate..
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:16am
  - howitis
    
    Stuff National
    actually they stuffed themselves.
    
    RMA;
    no reform of WFF;
    corporate grants/handouts to overseas entities;
    apartheid;
    excessive immigration;
    creation of Auckland council and all the disease that has created;
    tossing local body elections to Labour;
    inaction in reforming local bodies to reflect most work is now contracted out;
    not taking a stand on living wage communism;
    no indexing of tax brackets;
    inaction on allowing dirty Chinese money to swamp our housing market;
    never cleared the Maori gravy train by 2013 as they said;
    cock up of Easter Sunday trading et al……
    the list is long
    
    Can’t see myself voting these muppets in a long time.
    
    Winnie to win all the way.
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:45pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Nice list, but still leaves them way ahead of the coalition of losers and anything where the drunken dwarf and his band of hayseeds are involved.
      Winnie to win about 9% of the votes (the terminally bewildered).
      Not enough, especially when Liabore/Greens combined will struggle to get 30%.
      Might as well swallow dead rats and ensure we keep the strongest economy in the OECD.
      
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      April 7, 2017 12:58pm
      - howitis
        
        Capn
        
        I can’t see Winston teaming up with the Greens.
        
        I see him as a stabiliser for Gnats who have gone off the reservation with :-
        apartheid;
        the very destructive actions in the last 7 years of Local Authority councils which were not particularly relevant 20+ years ago and now adversely affect many in many ways;
        back door immigration of some filth via pretend education;
        the hit on our health system by bringing in some very low quality immigrants from backward crapola joints;
        allowing the house prices to run away with combined effect of immigration (a Napier stuffed in to Auckland every year)
        + Not allowing houses to be built via National/ACT created super ??? city.
        ..the result of which is to alienate our own young people starting out in life (watch the Chlöe Swarbrick effect even if you don’t understand it)
        
        I voted for Gnats the last 3 elections but last time ONLY because of the Mana/Dotcom risk element. They can stick their unsuccessful weetbix flag where the sun does not shine.
        
        A protest vote counts now – for the most part- unlike where more than 20% voted Social credit in 1981 to no effect.
        
        English is pretty useless and Nick Smith is, and has been since at least 2003, very toxic.
        
        Winnie for a Win
        Get us out of the apartheid pooh.
        
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        April 7, 2017 2:40pm
- wiseowl
  
  The whole National Party are responsible for this debacle.
  Smith is the vehicle but when you hear of the secret meetings with the iwi leaders and the on going discussions that have led to the introduction of a racist , flawed, anti democratic Act,the whole lot of them should hang their heads in shame.
  No doubt Smith heads off for the weekend to swim in a swimmable river and drink some pristine water oblivious of the fact that in the future the rivers and the water and all our resources will be controlled by unelected ,elite, special people.
  The worst legislation in our history .
  
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  April 7, 2017 12:40pm
stephieboy

This is going to be interesting as Trump will likely get off side with his allies and partners in crime , Putin and Assad .

“Trump Says ‘Something Should Happen’ to Assad After Chemical Attack in Syria”

“A day after President Trump said his attitude toward Syrian president Bashar al-Assad “has changed very much” following this week’s chemical attack, CNN provides an idea of what that actually means. In meetings with members of Congress, Trump has said he’s considering military action as retaliation for the attack, CNN reports.

Trump commented on Assad again Thursday aboard Air Force One, providing little detail, but insisting “something should happen.”

“I think what Assad did is terrible. I think what happened in Syria is one of the truly egregious crimes. It shouldn’t have happened. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen,” he said. “I think what happened in Syria is a disgrace to humanity. He’s there, and I guess he’s running things, so something should happen…”

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/report-trump-weighing-military-action-against-syria.html
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April 7, 2017 9:05am
- mikenmild
  
  Apparently, Assad’s new chemical attack “crossed many, many lines, beyond a red line—many, many lines.”
  Are we going to see so many red lines crossed that America will get sick of winning at red lines?
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:22am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well: “With the entire world furious over the use of chemical nerve agents against sleeping children in Syria, Dmitry Peskov, a spokesman for President Vladmir Putin, says Russian support for the Assad regime is “not unconditional.” Nevertheless, Peskov repeated Russia’s dubious claim that the nerve agents were spread after bombs hit a chemical weapon depot on the ground.”
    
    We’ll see how this plays out. Russia has backed off a little, we’ll see if this has repercussions.
    
    At least (so far) Trump hasn’t drawn a “line in the sand” only to have the “enemy” step over that line and say, well, big boy, what next – like Obama the fuckwit.
    
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    April 7, 2017 11:29am
    - stephieboy
      
      Ed Snack, so you don’t mind if Trump does his flip flops from , ” Removing Assad from power is no longer a priority “, to active intervention in the Syrian civil war which is bound to get him offside with his ally Putin ?
      
      http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/03/removing-assad-is-no-longer-a-priority-for-the-u-s.html
      
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      April 7, 2017 12:02pm
    - mikenmild
      
      You missed the bit where Trump said the attack has crossed many lines…
      
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      April 7, 2017 12:04pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Yes but just many, many lines. Not red ones.
        
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        April 7, 2017 1:53pm
    - Tirebiter
      
      “At least (so far) Trump hasn’t drawn a “line in the sand” only to have the “enemy” step over that line and say, well, big boy, what next – like Obama the fuckwit.”
      
      Obama was reluctant to attack Syria when it crossed the arbitrary ‘red line’ which if you remember, or even if you don’t remember, Trump supported. Americans are tired of war, particularly not clearly winning at war, even though the government never seems to find a war it doesn’t like. But war is profitable for some, though disastrous for others, and profits are what it’s all about.
      
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      April 8, 2017 1:49am
  - virtualmark
    
    Mikey,
    
    Trying to read the tea leaves here … apparently it’s okay for Assad to kill civilians just as long as he uses conventional weapons? Is that what the US is saying?
    
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    April 7, 2017 1:44pm
- Inandout
  
  The guy doesn’t cloud his statements with political bullshit; unlike your hero..you know the ex President who is now shadily pulling strings behind the scenes. I wouldn’t blame Hillary, because she is now completely useless without her sidekick Hamas.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:23am
  - stephieboy
    
    Inandout,
    
    ” ..you know the ex President who is now shadily pulling strings behind the scenes.”
    
    Still in Trumpet conspiracy la la land ?
    
    4 21
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    April 7, 2017 9:47am
- Dafixeruppa
  
  So Stephieboy,
  If you remove the first paragraph, then you would have a post that would get less down-ticks.
  
  Now I know you don’t care, you are trying to be a troll, but trolling only works when you can get people to read your ‘bait’.
  At the moment it looks like you just get down ticked as an automatic reaction.
  
  22 2
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  April 7, 2017 9:23am
  - stephieboy
    
    Dafixeruppa. I reserve the right to state a point of view and not satisfy possible Trump appeasers like you.
    
    Down or up ticks with an automatic reaction or not .
    
    4 28
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    April 7, 2017 9:30am
    - Dafixeruppa
      
      Actually I was trying to be nice and give you a way to present information without being down ticked all the time.
      But hey, attack me as much as you want.
      By the way, I have no opinions either for or against Trump, I think he is getting a hard time in the media, but brings it on himself a lot too.
      
      11 1
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      April 7, 2017 9:51am
- virtualmark
  
  Speaking of Syria … I thought the Orange God King knew more about ISIS than the generals did, and that he had a plan that would wipe ISIS off the face of the earth. Anyone???
  
  1 5
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  April 7, 2017 1:46pm
- virtualmark
  
  31 Aug 2013: The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!
  
  4 Sep 2013: What I am saying is stay out of Syria
  
  8 Sep 2013: President Obama, do not attack Syria. There is no upside and tremendous downside. Save your “powder” for another (and more important) day!
  
  Every now and then the Don speaks some sense …
  
  2 2
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  April 7, 2017 1:52pm
kowtow

A five year civil war in Syria is a disgrace to humanity.
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April 7, 2017 9:20am
- Inandout
  
  It was very effective though in getting many ISIS sympathisers into Europe. Stir trouble in Syria, get those fleeing Muslims to herd toward Christian Europe.
  
  https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/herd-of-migrating-african-buffalo-beverly-joubert.jpg
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:26am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  A five year civil war in Syria is an inevitable consequence of religious tribalism and severe overpopulation resulting from a misogynistic and backwards culture.
  
  15 3
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  April 7, 2017 9:35am
  - mikenmild
    
    Why are there not similar civil wars in all the other overpopulated countries affected by religious tribalism?
    
    2 18
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    April 7, 2017 9:45am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Because Islam legitimises violence on the thinnest pretexts.
      
      14 1
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      April 7, 2017 10:13am
      - mikenmild
        
        On that theory, all Muslims states should be beset by intractable tribal violence.
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:29am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Mikenmild, at least some Islam dominated states do exist in that state. Both Pakistan and Afghanistan have have significant insurrection at various levels. Yemen is beset by it, Somalia is another, Iraq has at times had such. Other North African countries have had insurrections at various times, some of the “stan” republics have had issues but news tends to get suppressed. Sudan is another but at present the worst in Sudan is in the South which is NOT islamic but is very tribal. Nigeria’s Nortern provinces which are islamic have had Boko Haram.
        
        It is easier to think of Islamic countries that don’t have issues, Bangladesh largely hasn’t although there is definitely some level of extremism present; Indonesia (same), Malaysia, maybe Bosnia (now) and Macedonia, Turkey (but has Kurdish issues), Saudi and the Gulf States, Jordan.
        
        It is probably related, Islam does tend to be anti-modernist and has no defined central authority, so tribalism can thrive. It is exacerbated by the Sunni-Shia divide where that exists. I would opine that Islam is not necessarily the base cause but is an important contributor to instability, violence, and tribalism.
        
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        April 7, 2017 11:39am
    - VicParking
      
      Because in those countries they dont prey to a Ped.
      
      6 1
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      April 7, 2017 10:34am
      - ztev
        
        Child marriage was common among medieval European royalty- but its Ok when westerners did it.
        
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        April 7, 2017 10:59am
      - rangitoto
        
        “Child marriage was common among medieval European royalty- but its Ok when westerners did it.”
        
        Not these days ztev. You might approve of what went on in medieval times but most of us are more enlightened.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:02pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Not these days, rangitoto? Just this year New Hampshire voted to keep the age of marriage at 13 so that molested girls would have the option of marrying their rapists rather than facing the shame of being unwed mothers.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:07pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Vic Parking , don’t “prey “to a ped ?
        
        Ed Snack , the Eastern Orthodox , Protestantism and Pentecostalism do not have a central authority.
        
        Kurdish nationalistic aspirations have nothing as such to do with religion .
        
        The reason for ferment and volatility in the Islamic world are complex but it might help if the West and Russia stopped meddling in the Middle East and elsewhere .
        
        One thing is for sure trying to ban a religion is neither sane or practical.
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:15pm
      - rangitoto
        
        “Not these days, rangitoto? Just this year New Hampshire voted to keep the age of marriage at 13.”
        
        One of the states that voted for Killery IIRC
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:25pm
      - mikenmild
        
        True rangitoto, but I wonder who controls the legislature there and wants to keep rapist-friendly laws?
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:32pm
      - cha
        
        One of the states that voted for Killery IIRC
        
        Robbed!.
        
        Serious voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California – so why isn't the media reporting on this? Serious bias – big problem!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 28, 2016
        
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        April 7, 2017 12:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Sir Geoffrey Palmer discovered that being a Prime Ministership is a very superficial job.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/91307590/geoffrey-palmer-found-being-pm-a-superficial-job

Thank goodness he didn’t put some effort into the role.
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April 7, 2017 9:28am
- Inandout
  
  Superficial, but financial rewarding for Palmer. He was even more useless than waffling Mike Moore.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:33am
  - Happychappy
    
    Even those two can’t reach the ignorance and lows of Andrew Little.?
    
    17 1
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    April 7, 2017 9:48am
  - Manolo
    
    But his pomposity reached stratospheric levels!
    
    17 1
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    April 7, 2017 10:36am
- Longknives
  
  As opposed to being a University Academic??
  
  5 0
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  April 7, 2017 10:21am
- Kimbo
  
  That’s fair enough. Despite his facade of legal and constitutional gravitas, I’ve always considered Geoffrey Palmer to be a superficial sophist.
  
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  April 7, 2017 10:45am
Manolo

stephieboy and other Chomsky fans will be disappointed in his hero:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-06/noam-chomsky-calls-democrats-obsession-russia-conspiracy-theories-joke
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April 7, 2017 10:16am
Jack5

There must be ~~someone~~ something out there.

Astronomers confirm radio signals are coming from space.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/06/mysterious-radio-signals-outer-space-say-scientists/
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April 7, 2017 10:43am
- thedavincimode
  
  Heh, love it:
  
  it emerged two years ago that a series of similar signals detected at Parkes in 1998 were actually caused by a microwave oven in the facility’s kitchen.
  
  I guess they realised that all the spikes occurred around lunchtime.
  
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  April 7, 2017 11:18am
Manolo

Glorious diversity dividend, isn’t it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4386354/Pictures-Calais-Jungle-site-completely-cleared.html
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April 7, 2017 11:35am
Manolo

Slippery she is:
http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/06/susan-rice-has-given-two-different-answers-in-the-last-15-days-on-unmasking-trump-officials/

Susan Rice has repeatedly changed her story over the last 15 days and given two different answers about the unmasking of Trump transition officials who were caught up in the surveillance of foreign officials.

Though Barack Obama’s national security adviser at first feigned ignorance, once it was revealed that she was the one who made the dozens of requests seeking to unmask the identities of the associates, Rice defended her actions by saying they were for national security reasons and not politically motivated.
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April 7, 2017 11:38am
Manolo

East meets West. Lovely ladies, by the way.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4388518/Trump-greets-Chinese-leader-wife-Mar-Lago.html
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April 7, 2017 12:12pm
- thedavincimode
  
  Here’s hoping he didn’t grab ‘er by the pussy Manolo.
  
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  April 7, 2017 2:45pm
krazykiwi

So the Jury retires. I read the Judge’s reported guidance as giving them plenty of scope to:

1: Dismiss defamation claim by Lani

As Lani Hagaman had not been named by Little in any of his comments, the jury had to decide whether an ordinary, fair-minded reader would identify her as being criticised

2: Consider that Little’s words may be protected

Clark said she had ruled that Little’s comments were protected by qualified privilege as he had a duty, “whether legal or social or moral”, to comment.

However, that defence could be “defeated or effectively negated” if the jury found his comments were predominantly motivated by ill will targeted directly at the Hagamans, or if he had taken improper advantage of his privilege.

3: Limit any damages awarded.

It was important that the jury “not get carried away” in terms of any sum, while they should avoid “doubling up” with general damages and exemplary damages.
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April 7, 2017 12:16pm
- mikenmild
  
  The qualified privilege aspect seems the most sticky part. Should the jury find for the plaintiff(s), I wonder if that would be the main point of contention on appeal.
  
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  April 7, 2017 12:36pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Yes the qualified privilege argument seems like a bad precedent to be setting. One law for all. Politicians already have the debating chamber for free discussion – though I would guess most politicians would love to have that extended to all the time and everywhere.
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:44pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I think it is qualified to the extent that it is speech with a public interest purpose, but one of our friendly lawyers will know more about it.
      
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      April 7, 2017 12:52pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Do you seriously believe Little would spend more of his own money (which he apparently doesn’t have anyway) appealing an adverse verdict mikenmild?
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:50pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    I wonder what the boundary on qualified privilege is. Logically, it ought to be acceptable to say: “the fact that a substantial donor to the National party has been awarded [this] contract etc ought to be investigated in order to ensure no impropriety”. Such a statement discharges any sense of moral or social obligation. It doesn’t require the pejorative language used by angry.
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:50pm
    - Swifty
      
      Exactly.
      
      They’re not going him because he raised it, they’re going him because of ‘how’ he raised it.
      
      He had no ‘moral’ duty to be as nasty and defamatory as he was.
      
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      April 7, 2017 1:16pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  On point 2, Justice Clark also said
  
  “…the jury could decide Little had lost that privilege if he had either been motivated predominantly by ill-will toward Earl or Lani Hagaman in his comments, or had improperly taken advantage of the privilege.
  
  She told the jury it was the Hagamans’ job to prove either of those had happened, referring to their lawyer Richard Fowler’s argument that Little had paid little regard to the Hagamans because they were National Party donors, had made no attempt to check with the Hagamans before speaking publicly and use of language such as “stinks to high heaven” and “murky.””
  
  *****
  
  I read that as suggesting to the jury that Little may indeed have overstepped the mark, and that he had been intemperate in his language. That would invalidate qualified privilege as a defence.
  
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  April 7, 2017 12:47pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I hope you’re right KS. Otherwise the message is politicians from any team can say pretty much what they like, doing as much damage as they like, and do it all with impunity.
    
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    April 7, 2017 12:52pm
    - Swifty
      
      That’s my concern too.
      
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      April 7, 2017 1:17pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      And that is precisely the reason why the defence of qualified privilege can defeated by establishing ill-will or malice.
      
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      April 7, 2017 2:03pm
Manolo

The poor (and coward) Swedes have almost surrendered:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3262595/swedish-muslim-girls-are-ordered-to-use-back-doors-of-a-school-bus-while-boys-get-on-at-the-front/

An Islamic school that segregates boys and girls as young as six has been branded ‘disgusting’ by Sweden’s Prime Minister.

Footage has emerged of girls being led to the back of a school bus while boys head to the front at the private school in Stockholm.
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April 7, 2017 12:30pm
- kowtow
  
  Funny how the world’s MSM is in BLM hyperdrive over the Pepsi ad blah blah.
  
  If they wanted to get into alleged “diversity” charged imagery why not be hyperoutraged by segregated school busses?
  
  But of course not , theMSM agenda demands that attention be deflected from , not directed to how Muslims have no intention of accepting the cultural norms of the countries they have moved to.
  
  https://www.thelocal.se/20160722/muslim-man-sues-over-handshake
  
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  April 7, 2017 1:33pm
rightoverlabour

Some keyboard warrior has written this on the SAS – Hager – English. Even the Stuff comments are telling him to naff off.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/91265886/english-has-treated-us-like-morons-over-sas-allegations
Only morons are the fairy tale writers.
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April 7, 2017 12:41pm
- Brigitte
  
  Well when you start with the premise that Hager has impeccable sources (which aren’t named) then that’s the only conclusion you can reach.
  
  Still, be a short inquiry if there are no sources to interview….
  
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  April 7, 2017 1:39pm
cha

Cruise missiles are go.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/06/us-launches-cruise-missile-strike-syria-after-chemical-weapons-attack/100142330/
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April 7, 2017 1:35pm
- Northland Wahine
  
  Hold on to your hats folks, things could get bumpy…
  
  9 0
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  April 7, 2017 1:38pm
  - RF
    
    Help is on the way. Trouble shooters and defenders of the down trodden, Deborah Manning & Hager will be catching the first flight to the Middle East.
    
    Should be at least 100 new clients and 2 books in this.
    
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    April 7, 2017 2:48pm
- SPC
  
  Seems a simple enough message – use chemical weapons lose an airfield, keep doing it and lose all of them/the air power to deliver chemical weapons attacks.
  
  And it gets around the problem of no fly zones when Russia is there (I note the irony of some US military person saying very very recently they had no defence against Russian cruise missiles and then they use cruise missiles in a theatre where the Russians have a defensive shield in place).
  
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  April 7, 2017 1:51pm
  - NK
    
    What? Kill your own people and we’ll react by killing your people.
    
    When did the USA become judge, jury and executioner in another sovereign state’s affairs?
    
    This is outrageous. It is little wonder those in the Middle East hate the USA with a passion and are intent on killing westerners. This makes matters worse, not better.
    
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    April 7, 2017 2:24pm
    - SPC
      
      What, maybe if the use of chemical weapons is an international crime, it supersedes national sovereignty.
      
      When, a long time ago, Monroe Doctrine etc/UNSC permanent member/NATO etc since then.
      
      Outrageous, would doing nothing just be enabling another attack… . Obama tried dialogue with the Russians and Assad getting rid of the stockpile, just found to have been ineffective.
      
      Presumptive, the Americans seem convinced about what happened. It did happen at least, whereas the Iraq WMD matter was murky.
      
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      April 7, 2017 2:40pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      “When did the USA become judge, jury and executioner in another sovereign state’s affairs? ”
      
      Since Trump got in. Obama pissed around with a red line. Trump will make the would a safeR place.
      
      TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP USA USA USA
      
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      April 7, 2017 3:38pm
krazykiwi

The French really do like a good protest don’t they?

In today’s example embattled Presidential candidate François Fillon was hit in the face with flour bomb while at a rally for the [remaining] faithful.

Fillon’s reaction wasn’t as dignified as Richard Prebble who took an egg while talking on camera, and calmly wiped it off, while continuing to speak as if nothing had happened 😀
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April 7, 2017 1:40pm
sooty

If Jon Stehpanson has gone to afganistan, how come Nicky Hager did not go? Is he scard? Should he be sent a white feather?
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April 7, 2017 1:45pm
Manolo

A shower of American missiles in Syria:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/06/us-launches-missiles-into-syria-in-response-to-chemical-weapons-attack.html

The United States launched dozens of cruise missiles at a Syrian airfield early Friday in response to a chemical weapons attack that killed dozens of civilians, the first direct assault on the Damascus government since the beginning of that country’s bloody civil war in 2011.

The missiles were launched from two Navy destroyers in the eastern Mediterranean. They targeted an airbase called Shayrat in Homs province, which is the site from which the planes that conducted the chemical attack in Idlib are believed to have originated.
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April 7, 2017 1:51pm
- Ross12
  
  This is absolute madness, Manolo.
  
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  April 7, 2017 1:55pm
  - Manolo
    
    War is always madness, dear Ross.
    
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    April 7, 2017 2:05pm
    - Ross12
      
      Fair enough Manolo but to act so quickly is what I was really referring to. Ron Paul had suggested earlier that it was not in Assad’s interest to drop the chemical weapons and that someone else did it. I think that is a reasonable suggestion and a little investigation before acting would not have hurt anyone’s position. Apparently they are doing some investigation work in Turkey on some of the survivors and they say they can work out a number of things from such work.
      
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      April 7, 2017 2:11pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Why. Direct response against Assad’s military.
    
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    April 7, 2017 2:06pm
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, oh dear Trumpets like you again caught with their pants down by your master the Trump I . Wonder who he will be targeting ?
  
  The Rebels ?
  
  ISIS ?
  
  Old past mates Assad and Putin ?
  
  LOL !
  
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  April 7, 2017 2:49pm
Captain Mainwaring

The dump was the best place for it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/91327102/massive-helen-clark-portrait-found-at-wellington-dump

Now it’s on Trade Me. Any advance on $1.50?
16 1
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April 7, 2017 1:54pm
- Manolo
  
  stephieboy has put a bid of $5,000. He is very keen.
  
  11 1
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  April 7, 2017 2:17pm
Jack5

The woes of America’s white working class, and criticism of the academics who research the problem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/06/how-dare-you-work-on-whites-professors-under-fire-for-research-on-white-mortality/?utm_term=.ef0f4f7e3c2a
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April 7, 2017 1:56pm
AgentBallSack

World War 3 when?
I note Killary has been calling for Trump to attack Syria all day.
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April 7, 2017 1:57pm
- SPC
  
  A little unlikely, the military price is to lose an airfield if aircraft from it use chemical weapons.
  
  Don’t expect action beyond that.
  
  The political price is the US now reverting to its former position of seeking a peace in Syria without Assad in government (it had been hedging on that recently).
  
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  April 7, 2017 2:04pm
  - AgentBallSack
    
    It will depend on whether Trump sought approval from Putin first.
    Although chemical weapons are outlawed under the Geneva Convention, so Assad is technically guilty of the same war crimes they assassinated Saddam for.
    
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    April 7, 2017 2:09pm
    - SPC
      
      ABS, and the sub-plot is
      
      1. NK WMD
      2. China’s airfields in the south China sea.
      
      You know who is with POTUS while he is doing this.
      
      And no he would not have told Putin first, how many planes would have remained at the airfield if he had?
      
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      April 7, 2017 2:14pm
      - rangitoto
        
        Us military claim they advised the Russians and told them to get any of their personal out of the base.
        
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        April 7, 2017 2:46pm
      - SPC
        
        Just noted, that they did not seek Russian approval, but as you say must have informed them.
        
        Not sure, if there were any Russians at the base, but if there were – a bit of a clue to the Syrians that an attack was coming.
        
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        April 7, 2017 3:31pm
    - NK
      
      Assad is guilty before trial and the USA is the executioner? How does that work out?
      
      2 7
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      April 7, 2017 2:25pm
      - rangitoto
        
        Yeah lets hold a trial. That will scare him.
        
        8 1
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        April 7, 2017 2:48pm
SPC

Flying high elsewhere, just cruzing alone on some THC chemical …

Uruguay strikes against the war on drugs.

From July 1 Uruguay citizens can buy marijuana from chemists, just register and one can buy (its grown in state supervised fields) up to a capped amount each month, people can also grow their own.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-39522345
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April 7, 2017 2:11pm
ztev

Wheres Gerry ?

Minister of Civil Defence has gone AWOL over the Edgecumbe floods
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/portfolio/civil-defence

He only got the job because Nikki Kaye was ineffectual for 3 years, but a few months later we find hes worse.

It seems Paula Bennett has been given the ‘public fronting’ part of the job to give her an edge over jacinda jacinda jacinda
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April 7, 2017 2:15pm
Viking2

HERE IS A CHANCE FOR YOU ENTERPRISING ENTREPRENEURS..

An enormous portrait of Helen Clark has wound up on Trade Me after it mysteriously appeared at the tip in Wellington.

“It was dropped off where people dump their rubbish,” Wellington City Council spokeswoman Victoria Barton-Chapple said.

“One of the chaps up there noticed it and said it deserves a better resting place, so they cleaned it up and put it on Trade Me.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/91327102/massive-helen-clark-portrait-found-at-wellington-dump

RAFFLE IT ON TRADEME TO PAT ANDY’S BILL.
SHE STILL HAS SYCOPHANTS THAT FOLLOW HER EVERY BREATH.
9 1
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April 7, 2017 2:29pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s had 53 bids so far… up to $205
  
  http://www.trademe.co.nz/art/paintings/portrait/other/auction-1298121921.htm
  
  4 0
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  April 7, 2017 2:36pm
  - GazzaW
    
    It isn’t signed so it has to be genuine.
    
    12 0
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    April 7, 2017 2:58pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      God forbid that is should have been a selfie.
      
      0 0
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      April 8, 2017 6:32am
  - Brigitte
    
    Do you reckon it could get up to a very useful $2.3m?
    
    9 1
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    April 7, 2017 3:43pm
    - ztev
      
      No sitting of the Court today for H v L
      Whats up, jury retired did it ?
      
      0 10
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      April 7, 2017 3:54pm
      - thedavincimode
        
        Done and dusted. Jury out for an hour and awarded total $1.060 m damages. Hearing on costs to follow.
        
        9 0
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        April 7, 2017 4:29pm
      - AgentBallSack
        
        Do you have a link DaV?
        Can’t see anything about it in MSM…
        
        3 0
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        April 7, 2017 5:11pm
      - thedavincimode
        
        It was bullshit Ballsack – for zbitch’s consumption. Figured it might induce a coronary whereas the only risk to everyone else was spilling beer on the keyboard. Sorry! 😳
        
        Edit: $1.060 seemed like a fair number, with a severe rogering on costs to follow. Sadly, I doubt that will happen.
        
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        April 7, 2017 5:34pm
- holysheet
  
  It’s so bloody toxic the dump didn’t even want it.
  
  14 0
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  April 7, 2017 2:39pm
- thedavincimode
  
  No use to me. Far too big for a dart board.
  
  9 0
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  April 7, 2017 2:41pm
- thedavincimode
  
  Maybe one of the Disneylands could buy it. Shove it in a haunted house ride.
  
  12 1
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  April 7, 2017 2:48pm
Kimbo

OK, I was not a fan of now-President Trump when he was a candidate (nor the Democrat’s alternative for that matter), and I’ve taken the attitude since 20 January that we live in interesting times, but

…good on him for following up on his rhetoric concerning Syria. It makes a refreshing change to his red-line-that-isn’t-a-red-line predecessor. He may have been POTUS over 100 years ago but Teddy Roosevelt had it right when it comes to American foreign policy…”walk softly and carry a big stick”.
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April 7, 2017 2:40pm
- SPC
  
  Trump opposed military involvement back in 2013 and in the end Obama went with an arrangement with the Russians whereby Assad was (supposedly) rid of chemical weapons.
  
  But he also criticised Obama for the red line thing and not backing it up.
  
  In this case, with the failure of the earlier approach exposed, he chose a one off strike (1/6 airfields) to back up his words. A warning but without any on-going military involvement.
  
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  April 7, 2017 3:38pm
- Manolo
  
  The unfortunare Obama wall talk but no actions. His policy of appeasement failed miserably.
  
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  April 7, 2017 5:11pm
- Tirebiter
  
  ‘…but Teddy Roosevelt had it right when it comes to American foreign policy…”walk softly and carry a big stick.”‘
  True. If you wish to be an empire. But most of the people in the US would rather be citizens of a republic than subjects of an empire.
  
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  April 8, 2017 2:07am
dime

why would Asaad suddenly use chemical weapons?

something dodgy is afoot.

russian agent trump bombs russias team?
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April 7, 2017 2:49pm
- stephieboy
  
  Trump repeatedly to Obama in 2013: Don’t attack Syria
  
  “As Donald Trump, the President, weighs how to respond to a chemical attack in Syria his administration blamed on Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, he may want to consult Donald Trump, the reality TV star and prolific tweeter, who had countless strong opinions about not going into Syria in 2013.
  
  Trump is by no means beholden to his past comments about military operations in Syria, and the President has often shown that what he said years ago on social media doesn’t necessarily reflect any deep held beliefs he has on an issue.
  Trump also said on Wednesday that the video of children suffering from the chemical attack has “changed very much” his view of Syria and Assad.
  But as Trump meets with his top military and foreign policy advisers in Florida to discuss taking action in Syria after this week’s chemical attack, Trump’s past opinions and comments cast doubt on how much he is behind action in Syria and whether he plans to go to Congress to get approval….”
  
  http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/trump-tweet-syria-obama/
  
  LOL !
  
  Dodgy ? Sure .Or is Donald just being Donald ?
  
  An idiot !
  
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  April 7, 2017 3:32pm
wiseowl

Strike on Syria is bloody stupid.
I bet Assad has been set up.
Why the hell would he use chemical weapons at this time?
Assad is looking after the christians and fighting isis and the US are helping the rebels .
The US should be helping Assad fight isis and rebels.
Trump has been sucked in by someone.
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April 7, 2017 3:34pm
- Andrei
  
  Anyone with functioning grey matter knows that Assad who is regaining control of his nation has nothing to gain by using chemical weapons, especially in front of the cameras.
  
  This stinks to high heaven
  
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  April 7, 2017 3:41pm
  - SPC
    
    Reminds me of the bombing of the aid convoy at Aleppo. Why?
    
    To be seen as tough and ruthless, to assist in getting the enemy to withdraw?
    
    Terrorism is what it is. And bad habits die hard.
    
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    April 7, 2017 3:48pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    This stinks to high heaven
    
    That’s what phil little said.
    
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    April 7, 2017 4:25pm
- SPC
  
  I would question how much the US is helping the rebels, their activism is now focused on helping a push on Raqqa, by Kurds and Arab moderates.
  
  It’s the Gulf states who have links to the Islamist rebels (part of a Sunni-Shia thing, that the US is neutral in if anything – working with the Shia majority government and Iranian groups to take Mosul).
  
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  April 7, 2017 3:44pm
  - Tirebiter
    
    The US got badly burned arming, training, and maintaining the mujahaddin in Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded. It led to a fairly-well-armed bin Laden and his associates committed to driving the Americans out of the middle east like they did the Soviets. It’s hard to know what the facts actually are these days in our new post-fact reality where there are no ‘gatekeepers’ anymore and everybody’s personal ‘belief’ is given the same weight as public ‘fact’ however absurd those beliefs are.
    
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    April 8, 2017 2:19am
- Brigitte
  
  Plenty of suspects, but I wouldn’t include Assad in that list. I note references to the gas attack of 2013 are being made. My recollection was that the UN came to the conclusion that it was the Rebels and not the Assad Govt that was responsible. Perhaps a reason why Trump acted so quickly (in order to avoid facts getting in the way of a good story).
  
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  April 7, 2017 3:48pm
  - SPC
    
    2013 use of sarin.
    
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-un-mission-report-confirms-that-opposition-rebels-used-chemical-weapons-against-civilians-and-government-forces/5363139
    
    post 2013 use of chlorine
    
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/25/un-proves-assad-regime-dropped-chemical-bombs-on-civilians/
    
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    April 7, 2017 3:59pm
  - VicParking
    
    Bullshit. You have been listerning to Moscow.
    The UN has come out and said it was Syria.
    The US even knows what airfield the planes came from. The one that no longer exists.
    The Russan air defences that protect these bases either did not work or were turned off. That is the interesting bit for me.
    
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    April 7, 2017 4:03pm
    - Andrei
      
      The UN has come out and said it was Syria.
      
      Bullshit!!!
      
      5 1
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      April 7, 2017 4:06pm
    - SPC
      
      The planes came from that airfield.
      
      Leading the Russians to speculate they bombed some chemical weapons in the area. This is or is not plausible (evidence etc).
      
      If they were not involved, there could have been a use of a weapon by another party under cover of the air attack to conflate the two events (someone who knew of the planned attack and had agents on the ground to synchronise the two events – someone with an informer working in the regime).
      
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      April 7, 2017 4:19pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Does seem suspicious and tactically silly move for Assad, but US military probabaly has good intelligence on actual culprits (satellite and signal intelligence) – and they are targeting Assad so perhaps it is not false flag.
  
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  April 7, 2017 4:02pm
  - Andrei
    
    Remember the babies chucked out of incubators or the WMD fiasco?
    
    I used to believe them but they have lied so often I no longer do
    
    6 5
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    April 7, 2017 4:05pm
- Fletch
  
  He wouldn’t have made the decision on his own. He has people like Mattis advising him now, who should know what they are doing.
  
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  April 7, 2017 4:57pm
- GazzaW
  
  Sixty Tomahawks on one facility, five Syrian casualties.
  
  Piss poor shooting or the Syrians were tipped off.
  
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  April 7, 2017 7:22pm
wiseowl

Best debate on RT.
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April 7, 2017 3:50pm
Inandout

A wise man would hold comment until such time as the White House presents evidence.
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April 7, 2017 3:52pm
VicParking

Its was Obama’s plan that he did not have the balls to undertake.
American MSM has gone mad, depending on who you watch, it the greatest thing that shows leadership of the highest order or a madman in charge.
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April 7, 2017 3:59pm
- SPC
  
  If Obama had taken out Assad’s air force/6 airfields in 2013 would the Islamists now be in Damascus or fighting the moderate rebels in a different civil war?
  
  And remember the 2013 attacks were found to be by rebels not Assad.
  
  The risk, if sarin was used here is that rebels had some of this back in 2013 and might still do so. Thus a risk that impulsive action might be misplaced, less than decisive, misled by …
  
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  April 7, 2017 4:10pm
Inandout

Obama and (Neville) Kerry did nothing but appease..and look what happened.
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April 7, 2017 4:05pm
Jack5

National’s controversial amendments to the Resource Management Act passed into law on Thursday night.

Any lawyers lurking on Kiwiblog who have the time and inclination to wade through the near-700 pages of the act to tell us whether the criticism of the former ACT MP’s Muriel Newman and Rodney Hide are justified?

They suggest it’s something of a sell-out to National’s coalition partner, the Maori Party, and institutes Maori-tribalism-preferenced apartheid in local body government and democracy.

If it’s as bad and undemocratic as Muriel and Rodney indicate, the PR gods have provided National with a publicity diversion with the Trump missile storm on Syria.

Here’s a link to where you can get a download of the report:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1991/0069/latest/DLM230265.html
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April 7, 2017 4:18pm
- Inandout
  
  Well, that has convinced many a strategic voter. National will bleed votes on this because it affects every aspect of a homeowners life. Costs will be passed on after the Muddies clip their ticket.
  
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  April 7, 2017 7:03pm
Nookin

Jack5
I have not read the amendments and do not propose to do so unless I really have to. What I will say is this:
Although the concept of the original legislation was good, there was a tendency for councils to engage planners with little practical real-life experience and who went by the book regardless of whether the “book” had any bearing whatsoever on what happens in real life.

We had stupid rules such as those that prevailed in Auckland about the width between palings on a fence and in this neck of the woods where, by way of example, a client needed to spend over $1000 on a consent to erect a $700 tin shed that just happened to exceed the two-metre lim by a knuckle or two and was of no concern to anybody else.
The government has been trying to change the RMA for years. All of the other parties have been playing cute.

National finally found a party that would support it albeit at a price. As far as I can see, Act has been playing stupid games and opposing amendments and is most disgruntled now to find that it was not needed.
Whether you like it or not, the Maori Party did exactly what it has been elected to do and did it well. If the others do not like it then they only have themselves to blame.
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April 7, 2017 5:03pm
- Jack5
  
  The Maori Party isn’t to blame for leveraging its 2 per cent of the votes, but if Newman and Hyde are correct in what the Maori Party has obtained, it will be interesting to see if there is any follow-on effect in this year’s general election.
  
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  April 7, 2017 5:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Little & Hagaman Jury to carry over to Monday.
6 and half hours deliberation so far.
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April 7, 2017 5:06pm
- Jack5
  
  Were they delayed because they had only a cheap calculator with insufficient digits?
  
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  April 7, 2017 5:21pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Perhaps they were attracted by the thought of another high-quality morning tea on Monday.
    
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    April 7, 2017 5:24pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    Were they delayed because they had only a cheap calculator with insufficient digits?
    
    We live in hope.
    
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    April 7, 2017 5:47pm
- stigie
  
  So the Hagaman’s have been awarded just over 1 mil and costs still to come. Is that correct..?
  
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  April 7, 2017 5:24pm
  - mikenmild
    
    That was a tease by the very naughty Davnicimode. The rascal!
    
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    April 7, 2017 5:33pm
    - stigie
      
      What a bitch he is, he needs a damn good…….???
      
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      April 7, 2017 5:37pm
      - mikenmild
        
        …defamation lawsuit?
        
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        April 7, 2017 5:40pm
      - thedavincimode
        
        Beer? (Sorry mate, I was trying to induce a fit (not yours!)). 😳
        
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        April 7, 2017 5:44pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Belittling?
        
        2 0
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        April 7, 2017 7:15pm
    - thedavincimode
      
      Shhh. Don’t tell you know who!
      
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      April 7, 2017 5:42pm
Michael

Re chemical attack.
What do we know?
We know Syrian warplanes were dropping bombs at the time that dozens of civilians died from chemical poisoning.
US intelligence apparently knows which airfield those planes came from and that is the airfield the missiles were launched at.
What we don’t know for certain so far as I am aware is were there chemicals in some of the bombs that were dropped or did one or more of those bombs hit some drums of chemicals that happened to be on the ground where those bombs landed?
Assad and the Russians are saying that it was the latter.
One would hope that US intelligence was good enough to rule that out.
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April 7, 2017 5:06pm
krazykiwi

Sigh. Kiwibank is getting another chunck of my money, ~$250m. Not from providing me services, but from undercharging their customers and then expecting the taxpayer to step in
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April 7, 2017 5:11pm
AgentBallSack

Let the mouse stew.
Labour leader Andrew Little will spend the weekend in limbo on the verdict of his defamation trial – the jury was still deliberating and will meet again on Monday to continue.

After a five day trial, the jury was sent out on Friday morning to decide whether Little had defamed hoteliers Earl and Lani Hagaman for comments he made about a $100,000 donation to the National Party a month before their Scenic Hotel Group secured a management contract over a hotel in Niue.

The jurors returned to the courtroom twice to ask questions during about five hours of deliberations.
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April 7, 2017 5:18pm
Jack5

India is beginning to seriously climb into the NZ immigration industry. This, from an Indian immigration site, is about New Zealand:

It is one of the few countries in the world which has a pro-active immigration policy that allows one to live, study, work and do business indefinitely after one migrates New Zealand.

On another page of the site are listed the Indian universities recognised by NZ for immigration, and there are 131 of them.

Perhaps New Zealanders should begin learning Hindi, right now.

Indian universities recognised by NZ for immigration purposes:

http://www.infoinic.com/nz1.html
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April 7, 2017 5:39pm
- mikenmild
  
  I understand that New Zealand, per capita, has the largest immigration programme in the world. Needs to, as it helps to mask economic under-performance.
  
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  April 7, 2017 5:42pm
  - Manolo
    
    No need to worry, mikenmild. Your beloved Labour’s Angry Andy will solve the problem and put us right.
    
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    April 7, 2017 5:45pm
- Stars And Stripes
  
  131 of them ah!
  Might pay to check some of those out as you might find the address is a cake decorating business.
  
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  April 7, 2017 6:13pm
  - Jack5
    
    The Westland District Council mess that Stars and Stripes alludes to has deteriorated further. Everyone seems lawyered up against everyone-else (links below).
    
    Let the West Coasters eat cake, as Marie-Antoinette is reputed to have said.
    
    (Now our culinary tastes have broadened to include tinned- spaghetti pizza, we are ready for what beheaded Marie actually said: “Let them eat brioche,” which, Wikipedia explains, is “a pastry of French origin that is similar to a highly enriched bread, and whose high egg and butter content give it a rich and tender crumb.”)
    
    I wonder how brioche makers would go at civil-engineering contracts. Making that sort of tucker they might even be able to handle computer systems and electricity reticulation.
    
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/91315250/beginners-guide-to-the-west-coast-mess
    
    AND
    
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/91352059/suspension-confirmed-for-westland-district-council-chief-executive-tanya-winter
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:59pm
- GoVege
  
  Great news!
  I love Indian people.
  They’re kind, intelligent, respectful, hard working, wonderful parents and even vegetarian.
  We are always over the moon when we get an Indian family in the rental next door.
  
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  April 7, 2017 10:17pm
nasska

The employer (female) from Hell:

https://qz.com/938670/thinx-founder-miki-agrawal-inspired-by-the-burning-man-ethos-forgot-offices-need-boundaries/
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April 7, 2017 8:00pm
Manolo

The markets react:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKBN179031?il=0
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April 7, 2017 8:29pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Uzbek imam calls for a ban on male gynecologists
https://www.rt.com/news/383774-uzbek-imam-ban-male-gynecologists/

(the comments are fun:
female gynecologists for females and male gynecologists for males!)
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April 7, 2017 8:43pm
- nasska
  
  Reminds me of a sign I saw on a ute the other day:
  
  “I’m a vet so I drive like an animal”.
  
  It was then I realised just how many gynaecologists we seem to have on the local roads lately.
  
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  April 7, 2017 8:52pm
Maggy Wassilieff

on second thoughts….
perhaps I was being insensitive to the gynecological needs of males.
I keep forgetting that they have hormones, gender dysphoria and menstrual envy.
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April 7, 2017 9:06pm
- Northland Wahine
  
  They have SR… sperm rentention. Clogs up both heads.
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:16pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Is that why ztev is brainless.
    
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    April 8, 2017 7:49am
  - holysheet
    
    Didn’t you mean “hands”
    
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    April 8, 2017 8:08am
- Rachael Membery
  
  and lots want to be women?
  
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  April 8, 2017 6:39am
nasska

We have it bloody hard Maggy.

With two daughters & the CEO there was a time I can remember when life was a daze of pre, actual or post menstrual stress.

I had some of the best back boundary fencing in the lower North Island. 🙂
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April 7, 2017 9:18pm
- Northland Wahine
  
  Oh quit ya whining. My foster dad was the only male in a house hold of 8 men starting females. He never got a day off! The man was a saint!
  
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  April 7, 2017 9:37pm
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    “… 8 men starting females …” That sounds quite interesting, even in this age of transgenderism, though perhaps it is merely auto-complete wreaking its usual havoc.
    
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    April 7, 2017 9:57pm
    - Northland Wahine
      
      Bloody auto check! Menstruating!!!
      
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      April 7, 2017 10:24pm
  - GoVege
    
    Poor bast**d.
    
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    April 7, 2017 10:13pm
Jack5

Kea! Here Kea! Kea! Kea! Here Kea! Good parrot, come out!

Has the clever parrot lost his/her nerve in fear of the capital punishment of strike ten?

Or, oh no! Have Mossad agents whacked the parrot and sold the carcase to a Tel Aviv taxidermist for a few miserable shekels? The anti-Semitism here has lessened.
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April 7, 2017 10:12pm
- GoVege
  
  Where is our dear Kea?
  I’m thinking of adopting a parrot after losing our beloved retriever at 16 years.
  Be nice to have a pet you can pass on to your grandchildren rather than go through the grief every 10-15 years.
  
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  April 7, 2017 10:21pm
  - Jack5
    
    Sixteen years is a good spell, GoVege.
    
    Wait a little while, then if it fits your age and health, think about getting another retriever. Great dogs.
    
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    April 7, 2017 11:41pm
    - GoVege
      
      Thanks Jack5.
      Yes, they are wonderful dogs.
      Unfortunately our pets often don’t pick the best time to peg it.
      It helps to be there when they go, but I was on my first ever trip to Europe and had to say goodbye over the phone.
      I’ll keep in mind there’s another homeless doggy waiting at the pound/SPCA.
      
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      April 8, 2017 9:19am
- GoVege
  
  I see another casualty of religious fervour has passed away in London.
  Such a beautiful city and lovely people.
  The first thing I thought, when I visited for the first time 2 months ago was, how could anybody even think of desecrating such an incredible place with a terrorist attack?
  And then the cretins did it again.
  Fortunately I see some Muslims from the killer’s hometown are stepping up and holding a march against terrorism.
  Good for them.
  
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  April 7, 2017 10:33pm
Inandout

How is Collin’s inquiry into oil prices going, as the Syria incident will be a wonderful excuse for fuel suppliers to lift prices before Easter?
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April 7, 2017 10:26pm
Manolo

The religion of peace strikes in Sweden:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/truck-crashes-crowd-people-stockholm/

At least three people are reported dead and many more injured after a terror attack that saw a hijacked lorry plough into pedestrians outside a Stockholm department store.

Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said it appeared the crash was “a terror attack” and the country’s intelligence service said there was “a large number of injured”.
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April 8, 2017 6:28am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Someone remind me again why Sweden should be a target?
  
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  April 8, 2017 6:51am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Because sharia law is not installed.
    
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    April 8, 2017 8:14am
- GoVege
  
  Oh f**k….not again!
  These immigrants have such an attitude of gratitude…
  
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  April 8, 2017 8:38am
- krazykiwi
  
  Finally.. some action. Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has laid a bouquet of red roses and lit a candle outside the Ahlens store.
  
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  April 8, 2017 9:15am
Manolo

Justice Gorsuch is confirmed by the US Senate:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-gorsuch-idUSKBN1791GR
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April 8, 2017 7:09am
- Inandout
  
  At last the tide is turning, and I see Trump’s Syria attack has some Dems favouring his action. They had to tow the line with Obama, and now the shackles have been lifted they can speak more openly.
  
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  April 8, 2017 8:38am

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