General Debate 30 July 2017

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duggledog

So the Whangarei cops visited the psycho murderer who killed two and nearly a third, just a month ago

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/336079/whangarei-shooting-police-recently-visited-killer

So, what do we know:

1: Neighbours would have told the cops of the enormous volume of shots fired on a routine basis at the killer’s property
2: The cops would have known of Patterson’s previous (surely)
3: The non-consenting structure complained about was for target practice

Like the welfare cheat Turei, this story ain’t going nowhere. Why didn’t the visiting officer ask to see a gun licence? Did he look up whether Patterson had one on the database?

Seen the aerial of Patterson’s property? No visible neighbours. Someone knew he had built an unconsented structure, like who does that when it doesn’t affect anyone?

The Police have a tough job, but personally I would have seen more red flags flying up there than at a Chinese military parade.
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July 30, 2017 8:00am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Take it easy on the cops. They have a huge workload lying in wait for drivers doing 110.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:57am
  - peterwn
    
    That traffic policing workload is paid for by NZTA and does not come out of the general policing budget.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:25am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Much easier to go onto NZTA’s tab than do real police work.
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:42am
    - kowtow
      
      So who do the police work for , the highest bidder?
      
      They’d do well to remember Peel’s Principles.
      
      ‘The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
      The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.
      Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.
      The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
      Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
      Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.
      Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
      Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
      The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.’
      
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      July 30, 2017 10:34am
- cmm
  
  Like you I’m pro-cop on a personal basis, but I do have some issues with policing as a system.
  
  On any call-out that is in any way firearms related, the absolute minimum should be to check the firearms license someone has.
  
  Pretty much like checking a driver’s license for any driving related issue.
  
  Cops cannot do policing on their own – particularly in rural areas. The community has to step up and report suspicious/concerning behaviour.
  
  If there really was sound of pistol/automatic gunfire, then those are of concern.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:10am
- VicParking
  
  The MSM’s work list:
  Its not the killers fault
  Its not the family’s responsibility to report
  Its not the neighours fault for not reporting
  Its first the cops fault
  Then they are forgiven because they are understaffed and have had their budget cut.
  Its the Ministers of police’s fault
  Then at last its John Key’s woops Bill English’s fault
  Liebours Law and Order policy will fix all these issues.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:12am
  - redeye
    
    Are the so-called friends, that knew he was losing it, and knew he had grenades, any worse than Muslims that refuse to report radicals?
    Just saying…
    
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    July 30, 2017 12:39pm
- Gabby
  
  Insufficient evidence.
  
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  July 30, 2017 10:44am
NK

I didn’t think the Lions would beat the Canes, and certainly not by wide margin. I still back the Crusaders to get the job done next week.
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July 30, 2017 8:04am
- Keeping Stock
  
  The Hurricanes simply hit the wall in the second half. The sinbinning of Beauden Barrett was the turning point in the match and really changed the momentum.
  
  Full credit to the Lions, but I hope the Crusaders kick arse in Jo’burg next Weekend.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:29am
  - VicParking
    
    The yellow card was expected just when the Canes were starting to make headway. Guess who the ref was.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:15am
    - G152
      
      Australian ????
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:32am
      - VicParking
        
        South African,
        
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        July 30, 2017 10:58am
    - Southern Raider
      
      How can you have semi finals between teams from different countries without neutral refs
      
      Even if they don’t make blatant mistakes everything is up for question
      
      SANZAR is a joke
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:14am
    - B.L.Zeebub
      
      I make a point of avoiding games reffed by Peyper the guy is a complete numpty, especially after ( a season or two ago) when Luatua offloaded the ball in a tackle he was penalised for obstruction, Peyper is the reason the refs are sponsored by Specsavers.
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:40am
    - GazzaW
      
      Not just one ref – all four were South African.
      
      It’s essential that the Final is reffed by Angus Gardiner.
      
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      July 30, 2017 5:35pm
oldpark

Message for NZ Rugby teams. Make sure the refereeing officials are not South African. Three glaring home town decisions ,robbed the Hurricanes in the semi-final.Crusaders are on a hiding to nothing, should the same officials be in charge of the final. Super Rugby is just a pathetic joke.
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July 30, 2017 8:15am
- dad4justice
  
  Indeed the Super Rugby competition is a sick joke how can the Lions be in the final after only playing one NZ side? The Crusaders are up against the cheating yarpies. I suggest they take their own food this trip!
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:03am
  - cmm
    
    jaapies.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:10am
    - Kimbo
      
      The day I see Saffers using “Maori” not “Maoris” for the plural, we’ll enforce culturally appropriate linguistic spelling equivalence. 😉
      
      Plus, isn’t “Jappie” a pejorative, implying something like “hayseed” or “yokel”? Hey, if you’re gonna be insulting on the Afrikaaners, go all-in and use…”hairy back”. But as I understand you are a roineck/sootpiel, that should be ok, eh cmm? 😉
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:26am
      - Pharmachick
        
        Come on Kimbo, you’re better than that. Those terms are really insulting. Additionally for a person so concerned about spelling and grammar, correct spelling of those is rooinek and soutpiel.
        
        I apologise to the South Africans reading this Blog for repeating those terms.
        
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        July 30, 2017 1:34pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Pharmachick
        
        I wasn’t the one who introduced the term “Jaapie”!
        
        But OK, Pharmachick – a retraction for any South African readers:
        
        1. I apologise for not spelling correctly what I gleaned from reading Wilbur Smith (a South African author writing about South Africa and South Africans, btw!) some 35 years ago.
        
        2. I apologise if I forgot, that, after Kiwis, you are the most irony-challenged people on God’s good green earth, and that was an attempt at good natured humour at your expense…and emotional payback for what your refs did to the 1949 and 1976 All Blacks. And Colin Meads’ broken arm in 1970. And the dodgy itinerary in 1960 when we had to go up to altitude suddenly to play the first test. And your pre-match catering services in 1995. And…
        
        Always remember – in the minds of a one-eyed Kiwi rugby supporter you never really ever beat a NZ rugby team. You just sometimes score more points!* 😉
        
        (* for both irony-challenged Kiwis and Saffers that’s a joke at NZ rugby’s expense, btw).
        
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        July 30, 2017 1:44pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        @Kimbo,
        
        Who doesn’t love Wilbur Smith? [rhetorical device KBers]. I’ve read them all too. Also, I think those terms were never great, and they’ve got worse/more pejorative in the last 50 years or so.
        
        Also, thanks for the Rugby history lesson/walk down memory lane (some I knew some I did not). My Poppa always said the Springboks were the hardest to beat, especially on the high veldt (sp?)
        
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        July 30, 2017 2:02pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Who doesn’t love Wilbur Smith?
        
        Yes, as literature, “his head exploded like a pumpkin” ain’t up there, but as pulp fiction entertainment Wilbur Smith delivers for the ordinary punter. 😉
        
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        July 30, 2017 2:15pm
      - Gabby
        
        Apparently according to pharmachick they are snoflake girlymen. I’m sure she’s mistaken.
        
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        July 30, 2017 2:53pm
      - holysheet
        
        Kimbo stop being such a fucking snob.
        You remind me of my FIL. Hes always trying to play one up man ship with all and sundry.
        When we cleaned out his house, (prior to him moving to a retirement village recently) and took a load of rubbish to the dump, he even said to the gate attendant that we had a load of very good quality rubbish.
        
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        July 30, 2017 2:53pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Pharmachick
        
        …and yes, your Poppa is right. Joking aside about their refs (who, like ours had “local interpretations” and emphases), they are always hard to beat, especially at altitude on the veldt – the kicked ball flies longer and the ground is hard as it doesn’t rain in winter there, so it was hard for our teams used to playing on wet grounds at sea level to adjust, just as it was hard for them when they came here. Which is why only two touring teams – the 1937 Springboks and the 1996 All Blacks – ever won an All Black vs Springbok series away from home.
        
        Although how the great 1970 All Black touring team, even with Colin Meads’ broken arm somehow managed to lose the series, and lose convincingly is an incredible upset of Donald Trump presidency proportions. And Don Clarke’s incredible goal kicking didn’t win it for us in 1960, and even the 1949 All Blacks, beaten 4-0 in the series were not a bad team, indeed they could have won the series 3-1.
        
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        July 30, 2017 2:54pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ holysheet
        
        Kimbo stop being such a fucking snob.
        
        FFS, kindly stop being a humourless arsehole (‘scuse language, Pharmachick), much less issuing orders you sad sack of shit (‘scuse language again, Pharmachick). Wasn’t meant as a criticism of Wilbur Smith or those who read and like him. I
        
        f you read my earlier post you would see I have read and enjoyed him, hence I quoted him. I suggest maybe it’s just your obvious sad misanthropic inadequacy that projects “one-upmanship” onto me.
        
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        July 30, 2017 3:01pm
  - Awww C-mon
    
    “how can the Lions be in the final after only playing one NZ side”
    
    By winning that game
    
    FFS Dad, try to keep up
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:16am
  - VicParking
    
    correct. All SA have to do is threaten to move to the Euro competition and they get everything they want.
    10 teams, five NZ, three AUS, one Pacific based in Auckland but playing games in Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, one Asian team with international players based in AUS but playing games in Japan, Hongkong etc
    This way travel is same for all.
    Only issue: can the AUS games get any more then a couple of thousand in attendence??.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:22am
  - Biscuit
    
    Unfair, dad, the Lions lost in the Final last year after playing the Chiefs, Highlanders, Crusaders, Blues and the Hurricanes (twice)!
    
    Okay, the conference-system draw this year meant they avoided New Zealand sides in the regular season, but, hey, if they win the Final they’ll have done so by beating the top two New Zealand teams of 2017 in the playoffs…
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:57am
- VicParking
  
  They are
  
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  July 30, 2017 10:59am
Paulus Gnome

Is it too early or did Hugh go the way of WoO?

I know I know, stingray don’t the Steve stick rearrange Irwin, poke
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July 30, 2017 8:19am
Southern Raider

Four arrested in Australia over plot to blow up a plane

No doubt they were Exclusive Brethen
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July 30, 2017 8:20am
- redeye
  
  4 lone wolves.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:46am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  4 lone wolves together
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:46am
  - simpleton1
    
    A pack of “KNOWN WOLVES’S” ideology
    
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    July 31, 2017 1:10am
- Inandout
  
  Aussie have terrorists to deal with, and our Labour want to ban online gun sales because of the Whangarei idiot who killed those two women. Wouldn’t they be better off banning explosives, trucks and knives to future proof us kiwis?
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:05am
  - Gabby
    
    Who’s murdered more people in NZ, islamoterrorists or Whangerei psychos with illegal guns?
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:49am
    - Southern Raider
      
      Okay let’s open the doors and let ISIS in
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:16am
      - Gabby
        
        Let’s not soddenranter. Let’s do something about the illegal guns.
        
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        July 30, 2017 2:54pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Is it a competition now?
      
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      July 31, 2017 4:30am
- VicParking
  
  Were is the Boy?
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:23am
- Pharmachick
  
  This is the only real “lone wolf” in the world today
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wolves-cotswold-wildlife-zoo-father-mother_us_597c9129e4b02a4ebb75bcd9
  
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  July 30, 2017 1:39pm
Southern Raider

Yesterday at a rally to support Al Asqa Mosque (yes where a Palestinian shot dead a Druze soldier) one of the protesters was photographed wearing a Hezbollah t shirt

Are these the kind of people we want in NZ who opening support terrorists?
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July 30, 2017 8:23am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Where was the protest?
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:25am
  - Southern Raider
    
    Aotea Square
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:42am
    - simpleton1
      
      Alaqsa Solidarity Rally – “Auckland Stands With Jerusalem”. Sat 2:00 PM
      It was yesterday, where the t shirt was worn.
      
      As we heard nothing from Susan Devoy, it would seem she must have enjoyed the day out of multicultural diversity, just another day for Auckland, with people wearing wonderful slogans.
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:48am
      - Viking2
        
        nah, been at the sqaush tournaments in Tauranga for a couple of weeks.
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:25am
    - simpleton1
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Hezbollah
      
      The slogan that Susan Devoy is ok with?
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:56am
    - simpleton1
      
      “Al-Aqsa Solidarity Rally Wellington Stand With Jerusalem”
      28 July at 16:30–17:30
      http://www.topix.com/nz/wellington/2017/07/wellington-protest-in-solidarity-with-people-of-palestine
      
      Sorry a bit late, as it was last Friday. 🙂
      So how did it go?
      
      In case Christchurch is missing it out on anything, they now have a “prayer room” at the airport.
      
      Thursday, July 27, 2017
      ….The room has a varied selection of holy books, both in English and bi-lingual to ensure people of all faiths feel welcome,….
      “While to start with, the room will be used by men and women both, in time, we are looking for separate rooms for the genders. https://www.indianweekender.co.nz/Pages/ArticleDetails/7/8266/New-Zealand/Christchurch-Airport-opens-multi-faith-prayer-room
      
      It does seem a wonder to eventually have separate rooms for gender, and will that be applied to other faiths?
      I hope they have the “wadu” requirements sorted soon. 🙂
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:54am
- kowtow
  
  “We” don’t want them but all our ruling class political masters seem to.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:13am
  - Gabby
    
    Do you not want them to have post-parliament careers backed by Arab money kobknob? Joiner rysy.
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:52am
    - sooty
      
      Penny there?
      
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      July 30, 2017 4:29pm
calendar girl

The short interview video of Meteria Turei within this this Stuff ‘opinion piece’ link is worth watching: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/95199733/metiria-turei-hysteria-blinding-us-from-the-real-welfare-debate

She says that she has been contacted by a fraud investigator from (she thinks) WINZ, and will meet that person next week. When the amount she owes has been established, she “will pay it back”.

Sorry, that does not meet the standards that I would expect. They would include:

1. Repayment of all welfare payments received that were above Ms Turei’s entitlements.
2. Interest on that total sum – at the then-prevailing rates – covering the entire period from her commission of criminal fraud on the State up to the present day.
3. A suitable punishment for the crime itself. While the sum involved might justify a jail sentence, I don’t think that appropriate in this instance – it occurs rarely for this kind of ‘white collar’ crime.

So what do readers think might be a suitable (non-Parliamentary) sentence by the State? Home detention (following a trial)? A ‘fine’ / further sum to match the sum that she misappropriated? Other thoughts?

Or is ‘the system’ going to tolerate her criminal activity going unpunished?
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July 30, 2017 8:29am
- Gruffydd
  
  Six months or so constrained within her castle grounds would be an appropriate length of time for her to contemplate her failed political career.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:34am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I have visions of a torch led, pitch fork holding, wooden stake through the heart, unwashed local village crowd descending on the castle myself, with a cameo by Vincent Price in there somewhere
    
    That is what castles are for, nobody real lives in a castle.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:11am
- Chuck Bird
  
  We can not guess at a suitable penalty till a proper Police investigation is done. Many of us suspect it involved much more that she has confessed to. I should hear back from the IPCA within 3 weeks – hopefully sooner.
  
  That was a appalling editorial.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:39am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    At the risk of repeating myself Chuck, I will repeat myself; the Police do not investigate benefit fraud; WINZ has its own in-house investigations and prosecution service.
    
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    July 30, 2017 8:43am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      If Bill English asked the Police to investigate her she would be investigated.
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:02am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        It would be totally improper for any Prime Minister to direct the Police to investigate anyone, but even moreso a senior MP. I thought you of all people would realise that Chuck.
        
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        July 30, 2017 9:14am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        After all Chuck, imagine if Bill English asked the Police to investigate the $158,000 that NZ First never repaid to the taxpayer/Parliamentary Service.
        
        Sure, Peters said he made “donations”, but refuses to provide any details. But he still owes the taxpayer and Parliamentary Service $158,000 that he spent unlawfully. It would however be totally improper for English to instruct or even ask the Police to investigate.
        
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        July 30, 2017 9:59am
      - Gabby
        
        He wouldn’t remember asking though.
        
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        July 30, 2017 10:54am
      - Liberty
        
        Keeping Stock
        NZF want to return to the draconian times of Muldoon and Clark.
        That is why Chuck thinks it acceptable. For English to let the hounds off.
        Fortunately those times have gone. The world has moved on.
        NZF lackeys live in a time warp.
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:29am
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Keeping Stock
        
        It would be totally improper for any Prime Minister to direct the Police to investigate anyone, but even moreso a senior MP. I thought you of all people would realise that Chuck.
        
        Really? You really thought Chuck would “realise” that?! We are talking a self-educated mine expert who thinks that Jon Key participated in a cover-up to keep the Pike River Mine sealed, and, has visions of striding into it shoulder to shoulder with Winston Peters post-election! Chuck has never been playing with a full deck…
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:35am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “It would be totally improper for any Prime Minister to direct the Police to investigate anyone”
        
        And who requested the reporter who left his recorder on when Key was talking with Banksie?
        
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        July 30, 2017 12:02pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Chuck Bird
        
        And who requested the reporter who left his recorder on when Key was talking with Banksie?
        
        FFS – Key requested an investigation</s? laid a complaint against the photographer, not as the PM, but in his capacity as a private citizen (yes, MPs, and government office-bearers do wear that hat at times!!) for an alleged crime of which he, John Key was the direct victim.
        
        I know you’ve tried to say that Turei robbed you personally, Chuck, but no, she didn’t. Nor did she rob Bill English personally. She robbed “us”. Hence, as English was not infringed against as a private citizen, it is inappropriate for him, in his capacity as PM, to “direct” the police investigate…a political opponent!
        
        And now for the depressing thought for the day for the average Kiwiblogger: Not only is Chuck Bird’s vote worth the same as yours, but he is about 50 times more politically active than the average Kiwi citizen! So time to sit back and have a stiff drink!
        
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        July 30, 2017 1:03pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Chuck Bird (and I’ll try again with correct formatting!):
        
        And who requested the reporter who left his recorder on when Key was talking with Banksie?
        
        FFS – Key ~~requested a police investigation~~ laid a complaint against the photographer, not as the PM, but in his capacity as a private citizen (yes, MPs, and government office-bearers do wear that hat at times!!) for an alleged crime of which he, John Key was the direct victim.
        
        I know you’ve tried to say that Turei robbed you personally, Chuck, but no, she didn’t. Nor did she rob Bill English personally. She robbed “us”, or even more precisely, the Crown. Hence, as English was not infringed against as a private citizen, it is inappropriate for him, in his capacity as PM, to “direct” the police investigate…a political opponent!
        
        And now for the depressing thought for the day for the average Kiwiblogger: Not only is Chuck Bird’s vote worth the same as yours, but he is about 50 times more politically active than the average Kiwi citizen! So time to sit back and have a stiff drink!
        
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        July 30, 2017 1:10pm
    - peterwn
      
      And WINZ is able to bring Crimes Act charges if need be using its in-house prosecutors or if serious using Crown Law.
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:28am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Peter will WINZ likely do this before the election?
        
        This is why I believe the police should investigate in parallel with WINZ as well as for reason KevOB gave.
        
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        July 30, 2017 12:05pm
  - KevOB
    
    Indeed it was appalling.
    I don’t know if this is a Police matter. These admin payment systems often have their own controlling provisions and it may be entirely Departmental. The Social Security law is a morass. As one skilled in reading complex tax tax law I cannot get to first base with our welfare provisions. A consolidation is needed of all their current enactments and regulations. Preferably with a Departmental administration guide as well.
    
    WINZ will be reluctant to act at present, as shown up elsewhere, with the voters deciding, as a crude justice may be being delivered at the ballot box. I believe that to be reasonable. However, time passes and if MT is re-seated in Parliament that may be short lived and very expensive politically for both her and other parties. She foolishly could compound her present damage.
    
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    July 30, 2017 8:59am
  - Kimbo
    
    We can not guess at a suitable penalty
    
    Um, possibly Turei’s appointment as Minister of Social Development in a NZ First-Labour-Greens coalition government, in a cabinet led by Prime Minister Winston Peters?
    
    If the numbers fall his way and open up the possibility, what can National offer to beat that?!
    
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    July 30, 2017 11:32am
- oldpark
  
  Their joined at the hip partners in crime ,Liebour Party,were caught cheating the taxpayer for almost a million dollars.It was called pledge gate. Liebour backdated the law,and made it legal. Same thing will happen to the welfare crook,and thief,Materialistic Turei,the wee corrupt green party mouthpiece,who virtually keeps saying, the taxpayers of NZ can kiss my arse,i am on $250,000 a year,beat that.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:45am
- stigie
  
  Seems that Alison Mau has a sense of entitlement the same as MeTu who ripped off the taxpayer !~
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/95239825/alison-mau-green-leaders-benefit-fraud-admission-divides-us-like-a-springbok-tour-for-a-new-generation
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:02am
  - Kimbo
    
    Told ya! Urban liberals think Turei is “edgy” and “Che Guevara chic”. And the more she is “martyred”, the more Turei will mop up in that demographic of soft-headed idiots in gated leafy-green suburbs. Criticise her all you want, and demand investigations, repayments and banishment from Parliament all you want, but Turei has understood what MMP is about, especially for the minor parties – targeting demographics.
    
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    July 30, 2017 11:40am
    - cmm
      
      Yup, Greens are winning all the twitter and Facebook wars with 26.8k twitter followers and 99k facebook followers.
      
      But how many do that boring old fashioned stuff of getting up on a Saturday morning and walking to a voting booth?
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:20pm
- VicParking
  
  Retire from politics should be a “Bottom line”.
  Shes a lawyer, she can earn good money defending drug cases and protestors in Dunedin.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:26am
  - Gabby
    
    She’s a ‘lawyer’ like Ponyboy’s ‘lawyer’ downandout.
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:58am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Would a welfare fraud amnesty be a vote catcher for every party?
  
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  July 30, 2017 11:30am
Happychappy

It sounds like some of the deadly synthetic cannabis on our street’s is not only killing people but is also creating more problems for mental health as well. Apparently after testing a batch that had been seized they found that it posed serious problems for the brain.
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July 30, 2017 8:38am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Then this synthetic herb mixture is not really posing a problem as the idiots who indulge in smoking this shit don’t posses a brain worth having in our society
  
  How many examples of the successful application of Darwin’s law do we need?
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:56am
  - Gabby
    
    Fair enough puller goon. They’ll probably not run amok and kill anyone you know.
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:59am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Can you just stop with the ad hominem attacks and nonsensical sentences please?
      
      I appreciate your stance is different from most (not all) that contribute on KB. Even so, I think you might have a valid counterpoint, and could be contributing valuable balancing arguments here that really makes people consider their own stances carefully.
      
      Unfortunately the vitriol and scrambled syntax with which you deliver your posts are very hard to support.
      
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      July 30, 2017 2:44pm
- cmm
  
  Synthetic cannabis probably has more in common with huffing than actual cannabis smoking.
  
  There is no control of what goes into the synthetic stuff.
  
  What is it made of? Recycled VCR tapes?
  
  You can get pretty stoned on just about anything: gas, petrol, burning plastic, nutmeg,.
  
  When I was in the army there was a bloke who systematically worked his way through cleaning products (injecting and drinking). He settled on Brasso metal polish – always available in the army. When they took away the Brasso be got creative with shoe polish. I’d guess he’s dead a long time ago.
  
  People who have taken the loser offramp from the highway of life will always find ways to get stoned. Miking products unavailable to responsible users does not stop them from doing this.
  
  Take away the dope or the synthetic cannabis and it’s back to huffing.
  
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  July 30, 2017 12:32pm
EAD_TWO

More ~~propaganda~~ “analysis” from Shaumubeel Eaqub in the SST that purports to be fair and balanced on the subject of immigration but when you strip it all back, makes it clear that only rubes and yokels could possibly be against immigration.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/95203769/shamubeel-eaqub-the-politics-of-immigration

The tone is set right from the start when it begins:

Immigration is firmly in the spotlight for the coming election. There is growing tension between two view points: one that embraces growth and diversity, and another that is less articulate, but demands a fair go for those already here, and an idea of first come first served.

See that reader? Diversity = growth & if you oppose that, your viewpoint is “less articulate”.

Here is a question for Eaqub – why is it only White Western Countries that have embraced the sure-fire economic tonic of mass immigration? If it is really so sure a bet, why aren’t any non-white countries keen to follow suit – are the Chinese missing out on the biggest economic ~~lie~~ secret of all time?

Eaqub also parrots the usual line that “immigrants are doing jobs at wages that no-one else will”. It’s time we shut the talking heads down about there nonsense. Perhaps it’s because Eaqub is a Lincoln educated Economist, he never talks about the marginal cost of capital & Labour. When our Governments bring in large pools of low cost unskilled labour – what incentive is their for business’s to move higher up the value chain? NZ has the highest educated diaspora of educated people in the world per head of population and the reason they leave is because there is not enough high paying jobs. Eaquab should visit Japan where a high marginal cost of labour has meant society and the economy has evolved to embrace robotics and average real wages are so very very high. When I come back from visits to Japan and Korea, I find it staggering how many people are doing low level “service” jobs in this country. Extra, previously unviable business will always be created when the marginal cost of labour is low

Also, the destruction of social cohesiveness and shared bonds caused by mass immigration has meant we keep employing more low skilled people to do jobs which shouldn’t need doing in a high trust society. Security guards, transport wardens, policemen, prison officers, ticket inspectors, street cleaners, translators so on and so forth are just simply not required to the same extent in a high trust society where people are bound together with a shared civic duty.

I can’t ever see “modern” NZ having headlines this ever again:

https://www.economist.com/news/asia/21722216-there-was-just-one-fatal-shooting-whole-2015-crime-dries-up-japans-police-hunt

As crime dries up, Japan’s police hunt for things to do as there was just one fatal shooting in the whole of 2015
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July 30, 2017 8:41am
- VicParking
  
  See the word Eaqub and turn the page. Reading his crap can damage the brain.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:29am
- Shawn Herles
  
  “There is growing tension between two view points: one that embraces growth and diversity”
  
  This kind of growth and diversity?
  
  Australia, December 2016
  
  ‘Melbourne terrorist plot: Four charged, one in custody over alleged Christmas Day attack plan’
  
  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-23/police-foil-alleged-christmas-day-terrorist-plot-in-melbourne/8143762
  
  Australia, July 2017
  
  ‘Four arrested in Sydney raids to stop terrorist attack’
  
  http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/29/four-arrested-in-sydney-raids-to-stop-terrorist-attack
  
  No thanks.
  
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  July 30, 2017 10:49am
- Gabby
  
  It’s the rubes and yokels who want the immigration.
  
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  July 30, 2017 11:02am
- KevOB
  
  This immigration push has globalists behind it. They want open borders for everything so they can direct work to where it is more profitable for them. Also to places where they can avoid taxes. The greedy rich seek to be super rich and leave the rest to the government.
  
  Another concern is shouldn’t those who have paid their dues in establishing a country have superior rights against wannabe new comers and their promoters? Compassion does not compel economic suicide nor an unmanageable disturbance to an existing society.
  
  Time was when immigration was severely rationed because while it does bring economic development that demands resources, particularly foreign exchange. Floating our currency has made exchange management easier; it does nothing to provide for demand. We still need to export to fund foreign exchange demand. The overseas students being educated here for a fee are contributing. But is that sufficient?
  The global asset bubble financed by foreign reserve banks is not helping either. Immigrants need accommodation and the bubble has made their demands more burdensome. We cannot magically ramp up exports to match and tolerance is a balancing act.
  
  This is not a party political issue: all parties have to face the reality of foreign exchange demand. That affects compulsory savings and national pension schemes too. Saved dollars don’t reproduce on their own. Interest and gain has to come out of economic activity which locally requires imports. If the investment is offshore that also requires exports to pay for it.
  
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  July 30, 2017 12:16pm
- cmm
  
  One thing the Japanese do is run “boot-camp” style prisons and have a 30% recidivism rate – less than half ours.
  
  Crims end up in prisons due to making many poor decisions over a long period. They are products of a broken environment. The way to fix that is to completely isolate them from their old environment and rebuild their thinking from the ground up.
  
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  July 30, 2017 12:37pm
MT_Tinman

I notice the Crusaders won without bringing the game forward by a day to disadvantage the opposition who were flying back from SA or having to apologize for non-playing personnel cheating.

See Waikato, you can win by fair means.
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July 30, 2017 8:51am
Fletch

Harry Potter author J.K Rowling tweeting out edited video that makes it look like Trump ignored a disabled boy’s handshake. Even when the entire video segment is pointed out to her, in which Trump does shake his hand, she still didn’t delete her tweet, which has now been retweeted thousands of times.

Even Piers Morgan attacked her on Twitter.

So @jk_rowling still hasn’t deleted her lies about Trump snubbing a disabled boy?
Why not?
She is all about honesty, right?
— Piers Morgan (@piersmorgan) July 29, 2017

http://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/07/28/j-k-rowlings-tweet-of-a-deceptively-edited-clip-of-trump-and-a-boy-in-a-wheelchair-has-58k-rts-and-counting/

The very first thing Trump does is shake the hand of the little boy –

https://youtu.be/g0u34c9orMc?t=2m15s
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July 30, 2017 8:52am
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
HOUSING … THIS GOVERNMENTS WATERLOO …

Poverty, gap between rich & poor and housing affordability, housing shortage, and homelessness dominate discussion in lead-up to election, says Roy Morgan poll | interest.co.nz

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/89038/poverty-gap-between-rich-poor-and-housing-affordability-housing-shortage-and-homelessness

Content sourced from Roy Morgan Research

In mid-2017, and only a few months before the upcoming New Zealand Election which according to Roy Morgan is too close to call*, the key Issues for the New Zealand Election are the inter-related issues of Poverty and the gap between rich & poor, House prices & Housing affordability and Housing shortages & Homelessness.

The overall picture across all issues was covered extensively in our release on broader New Zealand Concerns released a fortnight ago and available to view here. We look in this release at Economic & Housing-related concerns in greater detail.

A significant 50% of New Zealanders believe Economic issues (27%) or Housing-related issues (23%) are the most important problems facing New Zealand. … read more via hyperlink above …

2017 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

DEFINITION OF AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING MARKET

For metropolitan areas to rate as ‘affordable’ and ensure that housing bubbles are not triggered, housing prices should not exceed three times gross annual household earnings. To allow this to occur, new starter housing of an acceptable quality to the purchasers, with associated commercial and industrial development, must be allowed to be provided on the urban fringes at 2.5 times the gross annual median household income of that urban market (refer Demographia Survey Schedules for guidance).

The critically important Development Ratios for this new fringe starter housing, should be 17 – 23% serviced lot / section cost – the balance the actual housing construction.

Ideally through a normal building cycle, the Median Multiple should move from a Floor Multiple of 2.3, through a Swing Multiple of 2.5 to a Ceiling Multiple of 2.7 – to ensure maximum stability and optimal medium and long term performance of the residential construction sector.

Report: housing affordability out of sync with incomes

https://www.domain.com.au/news/report-housing-affordability-out-of-sync-with-incomes-20110202-1ad3m/

… No wonder Prime Minister English is in despair …

VIDEO: Bill English on affordable housing in Auckland | Radio New Zealand News

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/334786/video-bill-english-on-affordable-housing-in-auckland
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July 30, 2017 8:54am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Too early, too much, too often, please get your own space?
  
  Already got one? How is that working out?
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:02am
  - stigie
    
    Oh Fuck Hugh
    2 ticks blue.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:11am
    - VicParking
      
      Come on team are you late getting up today on 14 downticks after 30 minutes
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:31am
      - Colville
        
        one more needed!
        
        7 2
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        July 30, 2017 10:43am
    - Gabby
      
      Two Licks Poo.
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:31am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  8:54am and the Labour cheerleading team roars into action again.
  Two Ticks Blue.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:04am
  - Gabby
    
    Two Pricks Goo.
    
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    July 30, 2017 11:32am
    - B.L.Zeebub
      
      Looks like the Orderly has unfastened the straps on gabbys jacket.
      More evidence that the sufferers of Fetal Alcohol syndrome should not self-medicate or be given electro-shock treatment.
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:46am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  … WHAT HAS THIS GOVERNMENT ACHIEVED WITH HOUSING SINCE THE MAJOR OCTOBER 2012 ANNOUNCEMENT ? ….
  
  … with the focus on …
  * land supply
  * infrastructure financing
  * process
  * construction costs
  
  Read Prime Minister Bill English’s Introduction to the 2013 9th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey … at the time Nick Smith was appointed Housing Minister …
  
  http://www.demographia.com/dhi2013.pdf
  
  The October 2012 Housing Affordability announcement …
  
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/govt-responds-housing-affordability-report
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuCchEb-XOk
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:11am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    … WHAT HAS THIS GOVERNMENT ACHIEVED WITH HOUSING SINCE THE MAJOR OCTOBER 2012 ANNOUNCEMENT ? ….
    
    Well, apart from the fact that New Zealand is in the middle of its biggest and most sustained construction boom ever, not much, I suppose.
    
    I mean even here in little old Whanganui, there are 67 young people currently doing apprenticeships in the building and construction sector. One Whanganui building company alone was advertising yesterday for three carpenters because they are so busy.
    
    So yeah; not much happening, eh Hugh 😎
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:17am
    - VicParking
      
      Whanganui, thats the town who’s council thinks banning smoking, Vaping, plastic bags, liquor outlets and giving money to projects that are sure to fail rather than fixing roads and replacing the water mains which are failing because of spiral weld failures. Another Council great idea a few years ago.
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:37am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Things continue to happen in Whanganui IN SPITE OF the Labour-dominated District Council Vic, not because of it!
        
        Check out this video around the launch of Fuller’s new ferry Torea, which they will take delivery of soon for the Waiheke run. Part of New Zealand’s largest ever commercial boatbuilding contract between Fullers and Q-West Boatbuilders in Whanganui
        
        https://www.facebook.com/fullersferry/videos/10154751680781845/?hc_ref=ARREJDIiqxfXffkr9UwGN0B8zCdO5oAsUzgSOIr94x5WxKNXmCMFF4xxmO5mJcL5i5E
        
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        July 30, 2017 10:28am
    - EAD_TWO
      
      Well, apart from the fact that New Zealand is in the middle of its biggest and most sustained construction boom ever, not much, I suppose.
      
      @ Keeping Stock
      
      One persons “most sustained construction boom” is one persons “scrambling around desperately to house the “most sustained mass immigration” ever.
      
      Importing people to concrete over more productive land and clog up existing infrastructure to house even more imported people sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me….
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:53am
  - Chris R
    
    I understand that residential building consents in all but two regions of NZ are at an all time high. So, has the government germinated this passion for building, has it enhanced the prospects for those building and has it maintained a strong economy? Just a few thoughts for you to expend your impressive brain-power on. BUT: I believe the government could do more for building by shaking the nonsense out of local authority dictates and repealing the RMA in its entirety. I love living in modern NZ as it is close to being flawless economically and socially.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:26am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Hugh, have you checked which political parties are preventing the Govt. from making serious changes to the RMA to make land more available.
      No, thought not.
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:47am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Now look here Captain; countering Hugh’s irrational argument with something like facts is just not on!
        
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        July 30, 2017 10:43am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Capt Mainwaring … The Governments ;reform’ attempts in this area are a well known joke.
        
        In any event it is not the RMA that is the main problem. Sort that out AFTER land supply and infrastructure financing are sorted.
        
        Go a few posts down and check out the respective performances of the TA’s with building consents … the SMALLER Selwyn’s, Tauranga’s, Waimakariris of this world … and the LARGER bureaucrativc basket cases of Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Wllington on the other.
        
        I spelled out the solutions … crystal clear … within the front end of this mid last year …
        
        http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/definition-of-affordable-housing.html
        
        and to Heather du Plessis Allan on RadioLive around the same time …
        
        http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Talking-housing-affordability-across-the-globe-with-Hugh-Pavletich/tabid/506/articleID/122978/Default.aspx
        
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        July 30, 2017 10:53am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Check out what Stephen Franks had to say about the RMA … and a few associated matters … a couple of years ago …
        
        StephenFranks.co.nz » Blog Archive » Banal business naivete on politics (and the RMA and Councils)
        
        http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/banal-business-naivete-on-politics-and-councils/
        
        There is no sadder sight that I am aware of than Kiwis reinventing the wheel.
        
        On the land use law front, the likes of Palmer, Upton, McShane and others were way out of their depth. They were not grounded guys with experience.
        
        We saw the same thing again with the MBIE Housing Addordability Measure crap recently.
        
        Not surprising with the airhead Smith as the reporting Minister. Hes never had any real world experience. Way out of his depth.
        
        It sure as hell does get tiresome … to say nothing of the huge costs of these failures.
        
        Shamubeel Eaquab the economist is of the view that just about every major political initiative in the local government arena these past 30 years has been a failure. I agree.
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:12am
    - wiseowl
      
      You obviously have no understanding of the RMA or the way it works.
      It is there for a reason .
      The changes some want to make would totally stuff the country unless they relate to removing the race based parts and clauses.
      It is the Local Government Act and the Building Act that need changing.
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:07am
      - Chris R
        
        I agree that the LGAct and the Building Act both require dumping but it is the RMA which has created the issue of land shortages. Before 1991 there were a host of so-called environmental statutes all of which (as with the RMA) were completely unnecessary. The ecological safety society needs can be superbly provided by the tort of private nuisance. The RMA has allowed Councils to unleash armies of clipboard Hitlers, parasites and busy-bodies!
        
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        July 30, 2017 12:51pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Spain ramped up its “housing construction” too, in the early 2000’s. They even ended up “overbuilding” in time for their crash.
      
      Meanwhile in stable-price housing markets, it has been calculated that “the supply of housing” can be seen responding to fluctuations in demand within a matter of weeks.
      
      These regulatory chokes and long pipelines are a hazard on every level. The ramped-up construction we are talking about, is happening at least 7 years too late, and there is no chance at all that it is sustaining any sort of fine balance in the market.
      
      I can provide reading references on Spain’s slow-responding but late-snowballing “housing supply” if anyone is truly interested.
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:05pm
- Happychappy
  
  Hugh: Have you got a answer to why housing is not the top issue in the latest poll and the Economy is. TWO TICKS BLUE.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:13am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    It is … housing stress and inequality go hand-in-hand … a very lethal political cocktail indeed …
    
    ‘Completely broken’? Widening inequality fuels discontent among Kiwis | Stuff.co.nz
    
    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/93679813/completely-broken-widening-inequality-fuels-discontent-among-kiwis
    
    … extracts …
    
    … Are those in the Beehive today getting too smug and out of touch? Could similar things happen here? …
    
    … The Stuff.co.nz/Massey University Election Survey asked questions that other polls don’t ask, to find out how much political discontent may be simmering in New Zealand. …
    
    … Seventy-three per cent agreed that inequality is “too high and/or growing fast”, while slightly more (74 per cent) agreed that “there is a major housing crisis in New Zealand right now”.
    
    Health, housing and environment (in that order) were the three most widely chosen issues likely to influence voters at the election. … read more via hyperlink above …
    
    The risk is greater than the GFC if we can’t fix the housing crisis … (former Australian Liberal leader) John Hewson … The Age / SMH
    
    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-risk-is-greater-than-the-gfc-if-we-cant-fix-the-housing-crisis-20170309-guu4sf.html
    
    Inequality & Housing: through the roof … The Economist
    
    http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21647349-rising-house-prices-may-be-chiefly-responsible-rising-inequality-through
    
    Socialist Thomas Piketty’s Theory on Income Equality Wrecked by 26-Year-Old MIT Grad Student … Breitbart
    
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/26/socialist-thomas-pikettys-theory-on-income-equality-wrecked-by-26-year-old-mit-grad-student/
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:24am
    - stigie
      
      Seems like you would rather believe academics than whats going on around you Hugh..?
      
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      July 30, 2017 9:31am
      - VicParking
        
        Hugh stop please. I’m getting RSI from down ticking you
        
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        July 30, 2017 9:39am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        NEW ZEALAND’S OVERALL LOUSY RESIDENTIAL ‘CONSENTS RATES PER 1000 POPULATION PER ANNUM’ …
        
        Posted at … http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/06/general_debate_30_june_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1960805
        
        NEW ZEALAND: BASIC ‘NUTS & BOLTS’
        HOUSING PERFORMANCE INFORMATION REQUIRED
        
        The selected residential consent numbers May for the following territorial areas were …
        
        Building Consents Issued
        
        http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/industry_sectors/Construction/BuildingConsentsIssued_HOTPMay17.aspx
        
        New Zealand … 2794
        Auckland … 885
        Tauranga … 110
        Wellington … 67
        Christchurch … 225
        Waimakariri … 56
        Selwyn … 138
        
        The finance focused website Interest Co NZ rather surprisingly still just repeats these raw numbers …
        
        New dwelling consents are increasing but still lag well behind growing demand in Auckland where housing shortage continues to worsen | interest.co.nz
        
        https://www.interest.co.nz/property/88558/new-dwelling-consents-are-increasing-still-lag-well-behind-growing-demand-auckland
        
        The raw numbers on their own however don’t tell us much … unless they relate to the specific areas and population bases being discussed.
        
        Internationally, the accepted standard industry measure are the ‘consent / start / completion rates per 1000 population per annum.’
        
        So to get a real sense of the residential consenting activity each month, the raw Statistics NZ monthly numbers should be multiplied by 12 (annualized) and divided by the number of thousands of people within the areas being discussed.
        
        http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/population/estimates_and_projections/SubnationalPopulationEstimates_HOTPAtJun16.aspx
        
        For example (using Statistics NZ June 2016 population figures above) , let’s take Christchurch City with its population of 375,000 and its 225 consents for the month of May. Simply multiple the 225 by 12 to annualize it, which gives us 2700. Divide 2700 by 375 (the number of 1000 people living in Christchurch) which gives us a consent rate of 7.2 per 1000 population per annum. Hardly remarkable.
        
        Therefore …
        
        Pop (1000s) May consents / annualized Rate 1000 pop
        
        New Zealand 4700 2794 33528 7.13
        Auckland 1614 885 10620 6.57
        Tauranga 110 145 1740 15.80
        Wellington 208 67 804 3.86
        Christchurch 375 225 2700 7.20
        Waimakariri 58 56 672 11.58
        Selwyn 57 138 1656 29.05
        
        So … appropriately … based on the respective populations, the ‘star performers’ are Selwyn (as usual … by a country mile), Tauranga and Waimakariri.
        
        Not surprisingly, Wellington at about 3.86 per 1000 population per annum is the worst within the above table.
        
        What is the Wellington Council learning from the Selwyn Council ?
        .
        .
        Despite huge housing shortfall, Auckland consents per capita only middling … Michael Daly … Fairfax / Stuff NZ
        
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/83682402/Despite-huge-housing-shortfall-Auckland-consents-per-capita-only-middling
        
        NZ Government too late the hero on housing supply -Leith van Onselen … MacroBusiness Australia
        
        https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/nz-government-late-hero-housing-supply/
        
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        July 30, 2017 10:39am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Why is Selwyn the star performer Hugh? Might it have something to do with the fact that Christchurch East is basically stuffed since the forst earthquake in 2010, and people have moved out west, to places like West Melton, Rolleston, Lincoln etc? And to Rangiora, Pegasus etc, in Waimakariri?
        
        No wonder those jurisdictions feature highly in the figures.
        
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        July 30, 2017 10:46am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Keeping Stock … there are two types of local government in this world … the small and the bad.
        
        As they get too big … taking the ‘local’ out of them … they become incapacitated with bureaucratic bloat.
        
        Rodney Randall did a cracker job yesterday explaining this with respect to the Christchurch Council.
        
        Public satisfaction with local government ha crashed these past 3/4 years … 27% … 15% … then 8% …
        
        Pattrick Smellie reported mid 2015 on LGNZ’s own polling 2014 … which was never followed up on …
        
        Poll shows local government has a reputation problem | The National Business Review
        
        https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/poll-shows-local-government-has-reputation-problem-b-172979
        
        Lawrence Yule, LGNZ President and remarkably a candaidate for the National Party should be held to account fot LGNZ’s evasiveness with respect to its own polling over recent years.
        
        Where the hell is the media on this ?
        
        In large measure, this is why the seriously idiotic proposals of the (Anti) Local Government Commission for the amalgamations of the LGs in Wellington, Hawkes Bay and Northland ‘bombed’. The whole 3 of them.
        
        I vividly recall the non-performer Yule being shocked at the time. That at least was most amusing.
        
        We should of course be flat out de-amalgamatic these bureaucratically bloated disasters.
        
        The evidence is staring us in the face … and has been for a very long time indeed.
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:46am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        A couple of days ago here on Kiwiblog General Debate, Rodney Randall described aspects of the culture of the dysfunctional and bureaucratically bloated Christchurch City Council … read on …
        .
        .
        Rodney Randall
        
        Spot on Hugh.
        
        Lianne was apparently sick yesterday and couldn’t attend the C.C.C.meeting. It is most likely she was avoiding the South Shore residents who are furious at council inaction over coastal flooding mitigation. All councillors confirmed staff’s lack of action since 2014.
        
        The most poignant statement yesterday in the chamber came from Cr. Johsnson who stated we don’t even know who is running this city. We have so many organisations and if we don’ t know what is going on, how could the poor public possibly know!”
        
        The organisation is in a state of paralysis.
        
        There is one thing certain about poor old Lianne and that is she will stop at nothing to manipulate the media if the ‘message’ strays too far from painting her in a good light.
        
        Manipulation of the media by govt. Officials is of course nothing new, however it flies in the face of openess and transparency that politicians campaign on.
        
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        July 30, 2017 12:11pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Just in case any KB readers missed this extremely impotant post of a few days back. Further long overdue steps to get sorely needed PERSONAL accountability in to local government … and the public sector generally …
        
        Posted at … http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_28_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1977384
        
        Grenfell fire: Scotland Yard has ‘reasonable grounds’ to susect Council of corporate manslaughter … UK Telegraph
        
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/27/scotland-yard-says-reasonable-grounds-suspect-kensington-council/
        
        By Harry Yorke
        
        There are “reasonable grounds” to suspect that the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea and its Tenant Management Organisation committed corporate manslaughter, Scotland Yard announced yesterday.
        
        In a letter circulated to survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire, the Force confirmed that officers had notified the council that they may be charged for their role in the blaze which left at least 80 people dead.
        
        The Justice 4 Grenfell campaign group said it hoped the statement was a “precursor” to individual arrests, adding: “Any arrests made will be seen by all those affected as tangible evidence that they are valued members of society and are being listened to.” … read more via hyperlink above …
        
        … How could this start influencing local government culture ? …
        
        The Great Inertia Sector: A whistleblower’s account of council work where staff pull six-month sickies … UK Daily Mail
        
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1289702/Public-sector-inertia-council-office-employees-month-sickies.html
        
        Inquiry. The Great British Housing Disaster (Adam Curtis, 1984) … YouTube
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5VorymiL4&t=2s
        .
        .
        It really infuriates me how the centre-right is losing control of these issues to the centre-left … simply because of the gross incompetence of the centre-right.
        
        It should never have happened.
        
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        July 30, 2017 1:43pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Just a little further stuff on the RMA garbage law. Its not real law anyhow …
        
        Posted at … http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_21_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1972920 (with extensive further posts up-thread)
        
        Hugh Pavletich
        
        HOUSING & LAND USE LAW WILL FINISH OFF THIS GOVERNMENT 23 SEPTEMBER …
        
        To illustrate just how clueless Capt Mainwaring is on the RMA (New Zealand fatally flawed land-use law) legislation amendment management issue, do read what Pattrick Smellie had to say back in March …
        
        RMA reform – a lesson in how not to do it: Pattrick Smellie | Stuff.co.nz
        
        http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/90212062/pattrick-smellie-rma-reform-a-lesson-in-how-not-to-do-it
        
        … and what Business New Zeralnd (Chamber of Commerce) had to say as well …
        
        https://www.businessnz.org.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/124009/170324-RMA-purpose.pdf
        
        The Resource Management Act has been changed a lot over the years but is still not fit for purpose.
        
        The RMA should be a short, understandable Act that enables responsible development.
        
        After more than 25 years of reforms the RMA remains long, complicated and anti-development.
        
        The latest attempt at reform, the Resource Law Amendment Bill currently before Parliament doesn’t change this enough. … read more via hyperlink above …
        .
        .
        New Zealand First’s Ron Mark made it clear in the Parliament that in any coalition talks following the election, one of the few bottom lines would be that this RMA Amendment Act must be repealed.
        
        Bernard Hickey of NEWSROOM wrote around the same time …
        
        https://pro.newsroom.co.nz/articles/1629-newsroom-pro-s-8-things-at-8-trolling-millennials-is-easy-defamation-retrials-loom
        
        7. Just in case you missed it…
        
        One curious coda to the RMA debate that concluded last week was that the Opposition parties plus ACT and United Future all voted again during the third reading debate for amendments that would have abolished Rural Urban Growth Boundaries and allowed the financing of infrastructure bonds paid for with targeted rates.
        
        The amendments were defeated by National and the Maori Party.
        
        The irony of a Government that has railed against restrictions on land development by councils voting against removing those restrictions should be noted. And also that the proposal for infrastructure bonds was backed by the right-leaning New Zealand Initiative and voted for by the Greens and Labour. Strange times indeed.
        .
        .
        The Radio New Zealand Kim Hill interview with PM Bill English a couple of Mondays ago, on the Auckland housing fiasco, gave me the distinct impression he is happy just to throw this election … as the best way of getting rid of the political weapon of mass destruction … (Building & Construction Minister) Nick Smith !
        
        Study poor Prime Minister English in a state of despair …
        
        VIDEO: Bill English on affordable housing in Auckland | Radio New Zealand News
        
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/334786/video-bill-english-on-affordable-housing-in-auckland
        
        One doesn’t have to be too clever to figure out where all this is heading (general election day) 23 September .
        
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        July 30, 2017 5:11pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        … HAVE THE POLITICIANS COMPLETELY LOST CONTROL ? …
        
        Posted at … http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_20_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1971764
        
        LEARNING FROM THE IRISH 2007 HOUSING CRASH … THE SEVERE COSTS OF MULTIPLE STRETCH …
        
        Its high multiple lending that ‘does in’ the Banks and their customers … as they learnt with the Irish housing bubble collapse in 2007.
        
        The New Zealand Banks are in no hurry to repeat the 2007 Irish experience … when the housing bubble burst there … putting all its Banks to the wall and requiring bailouts exceeding 70 billion euro or about $NZ 109 billion.
        
        Irish housing across its metros on average went from 4.7 times annual household income in 2007 to 2.8 a few years later … refer the schedule of Demographia Surveys at http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .
        
        Australia is currently 5.5 times … New Zealand 5.9.
        
        Why should the New Zealand and Australian Banks be more resilient than the Irish ones ?
        
        What was the capital base of the Irish Banks in 2006 and 2007 ?
        
        If a 4.7 unweighted median multiple across its metros blew the Irish banks out of the water, how come ours are supposed to survive 5.5 and5.9 respectively with (in New Zealand’s case) a skinny capital base of just $NZ30 billion and a $NZ1 trillion (CoreLogic estimate) housing market with in excess of half it bubble value ?
        
        Following the bust, the Central Bank of Ireland found it was high income multiple lending that did the most damage to the Irish Banks … and it imposed a general lending cap of 3.5 times annual household incomes.
        
        A year earlier the Bank of England had capped at 4.5 times.
        
        In normal housing markets house prices should not exceed 3.0 times annual household income, requiring sensible mortgage loads of about 2.5 times (Demographia Survey).
        
        The days of housing inflation are over. That’s for sure.
        
        Welcome to the real world.
        .
        .
        A Government-commissioned report has found that land use regulations add about 56% to the cost of houses in Auckland; ‘prices far outweigh costs in most major NZ cities’ … Interest Co NZ
        
        http://www.interest.co.nz/property/88883/government-says-land-use-regulation-blame-56%C2%A0-cost-average-house-auckland
        
        By David Hargreaves
        
        A Government-commissioned report has found that a staggering 56% of the cost of Auckland houses may be due to land use regulations.
        
        The report, which looked at housing in seven major cities in the country, says that land use regulation is hampering the flexibility of housing supply. The report and summary are available here. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        July 30, 2017 5:26pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        … No longer are people willing to unnecessarily pay a million bucks (Auckland), $770,000 (Toronto), $590,000 (Christchurch) … for what should be $250,000 – $300,000 in local currency … refer …
        
        2017 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
        
        http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
        
        … Schedule of 13 Annual Demographia Surveys accessible at …
        
        http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/
        
        … AUCKLAND (10.0 Median Multiple – Demographia Survey) …
        
        New estate agent statistics show the Auckland property slump is getting real … New Zealand Herald
        
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11886141
        
        … CHRISTCHURCH (5.9 Median Multiple – Demographia Survey) …
        
        Christchurch leads cooling housing market trend … Chris Hutching … The Press
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/94418443/christchurch-leads-cooling-house-market-trend
        
        A helpful television discussion about the 2007 Irish crash …
        
        Prof. Bill Black & Vincent Brown – Ireland’s Bank Guarantee … Youtube
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7zd5dRILBw
        
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        July 30, 2017 5:39pm
  - Gabby
    
    Three Dicks Chew.
    
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    July 30, 2017 11:36am
- Notsofast
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  In July Labour/Greens now just ahead of National but New Zealand First again in the ‘box seat’
  July 14 2017 Topic: Federal Poll Press Release Public Opinion
  In July New Zealand’s opposition Labour/Greens has jumped 4.5% to 44% now just ahead of incumbent National on 43% (down 3.5%) following the scandal involving National MP Todd Barclay. However, in New Zealand’s September election the issues of Poverty, Housing and Homelessness and Inequality will be critical to the outcome.
  
  These figures demonstrate that Hugh is far more perspicacious than the common or garden kiwiblogger. Keep it up Hugh, educate the mean minded rabble.
  
  Note that Winstone will look for any excuse to kick boring Bill out of the ballpark, as long time henchman to John Key. Front running John insulted Winstone several years ago, bye bye Bill and good riddance.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:38am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Deputy leader of the Labour cheerleading team checks in.
    Two Ticks Blue.
    
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    July 30, 2017 9:48am
    - Gabby
      
      Four Hicks Stew.
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:38am
    - PhilBest
      
      You are prone to confusing “onetime National supporters vainly trying to hold National to principles” with “Labour cheerleaders”.
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:10pm
    - KevOB
      
      ☑️☑️
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:30pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    You been drinking the Koolaid at WOBH again Notsofast?
    
    And who the heck is Winstone?
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:47am
    - KevOB
      
      The winsome with a stone for a head who gets up Mr Speakers ire not infrequently.
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:31pm
- EAD_TWO
  
  Hugh,
  
  I remember you from your days at Interest.co.nz and found you quite interesting and made some good points.
  
  My advice – change your style as you’re not getting through to anyone. Link to one article, offer your perspective in under 3 paragraphs and invite a discussion. You might actually change a few minds if you change your methods but at the moment, you could be offering the cure to cancer amongst your diatribe but people would be scrolling past it.
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:50am
  - Swifty
    
    He won’t listen – he’s unwell.
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:04am
    - lifesgood
      
      What on earth is wrong with this Pavlovich character? He’s obsessed. I completely ignore his posts and just scroll past them now. But it’s annoying, he’s a waste of space.
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:26pm
  - calendar girl
    
    Well expressed, Ead – much more calmly and patiently than most of us could muster.
    
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    July 30, 2017 2:02pm
KevOB

Liabore propaganda.
We already have heavily subsidised housing for the lower income people: the accomodation supplement which is set to rise substantially in April.
Those in “social housing” have their rents limited to 1/6 of their income. Not much to complain about in this fair land.

Price affordability of housing stock is largely outside government control. In recent years the massive liquidity creation of the central banks has flowed into our prices. They can and will flow out again.
☑️☑️
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July 30, 2017 9:14am
Happychappy

Has Winston Peters apologized to Simon Bridges yet after the Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier found no evidence over QIA request, after Winston Peters had accused him of trying to influence officials behind closed doors.
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July 30, 2017 9:58am
- V
  
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/winstonno.jpg
  
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  July 30, 2017 11:33am
- Gabby
  
  Why chappy? He just said it was ok for Slimy Britches’ office to pull that crap. It’s still crappy.
  
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  July 30, 2017 11:40am
waikatogirl

Why are the Maori tribes not building low cost housing to sell to their people. They have Maori land to build on. Remove the banks from the equation and fund lower mortgage rates, with a longer pay period, with a low deposit.
As like all other home owners they would be responsible for their own property and costs such as rates, etc.
Perhaps the tribes know even home ownership is not a guarantee to stop some trashing their own home, so pass this no-win situation to the government.
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July 30, 2017 10:10am
- Jack5
  
  Maori land’s joint (tribal) ownership, and reluctance to risk alienation (loss) of it, means Maori in general can’t use their land as collateral for raising funds for housing or for enterprises. Who is going to lend on land as security when you can’t get your hands on the land if the loan turns sour?
  
  In housing, I think there has been some arrangement where at least some NZ banks will accept removable houses as collateral, but that won’t help the banks’ ratios which must have a certain proportion of land-mortgage grade lending.
  
  Communal land may have cultural benefits but it holds back economic development.
  
  This has been a problem for most indigenous peoples. Lack of land records and clear tradeable ownership act as an anchor on development.
  
  Mortgage type finance with land as collateral has been very important to Western development.
  
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  July 30, 2017 10:57am
  - VicParking
    
    What has happened to the settlement money other than being used to buy BMW’s
    
    16 2
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    July 30, 2017 11:07am
    - Jack5
      
      Maori groups are making profit. Of interest though, is their low tax treatment through group registration as charities.
      
      Ngai Tahu reported a profit for 2016 of $169.47 million. Tax totalled $739,000.
      
      The Ngai Tahu annual report notes:
      
      Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu is taxed on its business income at the Māori Authority tax rate, being 17.5% at reporting date. Certain entities within the Group have charitable status and accordingly have no taxation liability. Other entities within the Group, including Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, that are not charitable, are taxable.
      
      Waikato-Tainui reported a profit for 2016 of $82.26 million.
      
      This from Waikato-Tainui’s 2016 annual report:
      
      Due to charitable status of entities within the group, the profit subject to income tax is lower than profit before tax in the statement of comprehensive income.
      
      This in part reflects having some tax credits, but overwhelmingly is because of the tribe’s charity status.
      
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      July 30, 2017 11:35am
      - Gabby
        
        How does that compare with Ngati Aporo and Ngai Whetutia?
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:44am
    - PhilBest
      
      Muriel Newman in her latest newsletter:
      
      “…Over the years, New Zealanders have been deceived by the bicultural activists, who have claimed that the movement was a means to greater social justice for marginalised Maori. Yet, in reality, it has been used as a Trojan Horse to enable a rich and powerful tribal elite to grow stronger at a cost to disadvantaged Maori, who are little better off today than they were back then…”
      
      Hammer, nail, head.
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:14pm
  - wiseowl
    
    You should have a look at the Bill the murri Party have been pushing and I believe has been pulled.
    Many Maori are very upset about the control it intends to extend over them.
    Not much has been said about it.
    
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    July 30, 2017 11:16am
    - Happychappy
      
      Wiseowl: Will it be as toxic as what your fraudulent co Green leader wants for Social Welfare.
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:16pm
      - wiseowl
        
        Trouble is Happy, it’s supported by National and appears to give huge power over Murri by the murri elite.
        I haven’t delved in to it but my Maori mate who is a big farmer tells me it is of major concern.There have been a number of meetings to discuss its implications.
        
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        July 30, 2017 12:32pm
  - Southern Raider
    
    They can self fund.
    
    So it is fine for them to lose tens of millions in crazy ideas and Asian fishing JVs but they can’t build some cheap houses.
    
    A few million and it would provide local employment and the could then recycle repayments back into future builds
    
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    July 30, 2017 11:26am
  - KevOB
    
    There are trust arrangements which could be explored. Communal tribal land titles are not uncommon internationally.
    
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    July 30, 2017 12:36pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    Jack5, I understand some Iwi are building homes on Maori land for their people. If they can manage to do so, why can’t other tribes do the same. The Tribes have received $millons from the taxpayer. Home ownership would surely be a better investment than some of the awful financial decisions made by some iwi.
    
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    July 30, 2017 2:32pm
    - sooty
      
      Where, how many?
      
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      July 30, 2017 4:43pm
      - waikatogirl
        
        Sorry Sooty, I can’t remember the details. Quite some months ago in a Q+A report I believe. Auckland based iwi as I remember. Lots of happy maori have moved into new homes built in a suburb on maori land, and supported by their iwi.
        
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        July 30, 2017 5:40pm
- marcw
  
  Your final two sentences are correct – even the Iwi money minders can see the destruction of value that arises from “social” tenants. In a new 29 house HNZ development in Christchurch, more than half were evacuated after 2 years for ‘decontamination’ purposes. And it wasn’t just the rubbish they were taking away.
  
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  July 30, 2017 11:46am
  - Gabby
    
    Sounds like HNZ were being a tad hands off.
    
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    July 30, 2017 3:22pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  I believe that Tainui is doing something housing.
  
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  July 30, 2017 11:57am
  - waikatogirl
    
    I know Tainui are pouring their money into building the inland port at Ruakura (Hamilton). Tainui did turf all their tenants out at Te Rapa when building The Base shopping mall was begun, I wasn’t aware they were investing in new maori housing.
    
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    July 30, 2017 2:35pm
- pdm
  
  They also should have truck loads of cash from Treaty Settlements over the last 20 years.
  
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  July 30, 2017 12:03pm
- Peter
  
  Why don’t they make it leasehold with long terms and peppercorn rentals, like they do in the UK?
  
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  July 31, 2017 11:54am
EAD_TWO

After swearing not to, I’ve joined Twitter and some of the storys that “trend” are very interesting as it reveals insights without the filter of the on-message MSM:

https://twitter.com/yankifarber/status/887291428363276292

The one above came across my feed from a right wing Israeli foreign correspondent (with 7k+ followers) that shows some vibrant African migrants destroying a police car. The foreign correspondent tags the image with the following:

I don’t know which country it is & it really does not matter, Europe burned 6 million Jews who raised the economy & Got her punishment back

Anyone else notice the ol bait and switch?

So, it was Europe that “burned” six million jews, not “Hitler”, the “NAAAAZIS” or even “The Germans”? And it is “Europe” that “has to pay the price?”

This guy has just given the game away.

Fair to say the replies to this journalist whilst amusing have not been complimentary!
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July 30, 2017 10:37am
- EAD_TWO
  
  This journalist should have heeded Douglas Murray’s advice in his letter to the Jews about being so open in support of 3rd world immigration into European countries whilst maintaining a strict Jews only immigration policy into Israel
  
  In the article below he notes phrases like ”one law for the Jews, another for the rest of us”, ”It’s all very well for the Jews. They have Israel where only Jews can go and all the time they’re destroying our own religious and racial identity in Europe” and ‘rootless cosmopolitans’ are coming back into vogue:
  
  https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/the-real-refugee-problem-bigotry-1.62877
  
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  July 30, 2017 10:45am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Twitter’s full of Jew-haters EAD. You’ll be in your element!
    
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    July 30, 2017 10:50am
    - EAD_TWO
      
      There you go again Keeping Stock – using words like “Jew hater”.
      
      Are Jews like Gerard Menuhin “Jew haters” because they publish books pointing out the evils that some of those of the Jewish race inflict upon the world?
      
      https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Tuth-Shame-Devil-Recognize/dp/1591481724
      
      Is Jesus a “Jew-hater” because he pointed out the errors of some of their ways and the misery they caused?
      
      John 8:37-47
      
      37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[a]”
      
      39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
      
      “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[b] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
      
      “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
      
      42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
      
      That part I highlighted in 37 is interesting isn’t it – even the modern state of Israel will refuse to admit racial Jews if they are Messianic and believe in the teachings of Christ!! Don’t believe me? Read it below for yourself:
      
      https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/the-hateful-whispers-that-make-me-want-to-move-from-london-to-tel-aviv/
      
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      July 30, 2017 10:58am
      - Southern Raider
        
        What relevance does quotes from the bible have to do with Jews?
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:29am
      - Gruffydd
        
        So what is the solution to the Jewish problem EAD?
        
        You post two or three diatribes on Jews on this forum every day
        You must have an answer for the issue that so obsesses you.
        
        No the fact that Griff smokes pot or you don’t “hate” jews has nothing to do with it.
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:30am
      - Jack5
        
        EAD-TWO …
        
        But Jesus was a Jew, wasn’t he? And isn’t Christianity an off-shoot of Judaism?
        
        This anti-Jewish stuff is passé as well as being brutal and wrong. I thought it was settled at the Nuremberg trials.
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:44am
      - EAD_TWO
        
        “You post two or three diatribes on Jews on this forum every day?”
        
        Slight exaggeration much from someone who Hugh aside, is GD’s biggest one trick/issue pony.
        
        Was I even on Kiwiblog yesterday? Two or three postings? I might be blunt or even sarcastic but “Diatribes”?
        
        And finally, when has “Noticing things” been a crime?
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:50am
      - EAD_TWO
        
        Jack,
        
        we’ve got a Jewish journalist saying tjat all Europeans are “getting what they deserve”.
        
        I’ve bought into readers attention, and I’m the one who is “being brutal”?
        
        Sheeesh, tough audience ?
        
        PS: Nuremberg was perhaps the biggest Kangaroo court in all history!
        
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        July 30, 2017 11:56am
      - Shawn Herles
        
        “Is Jesus a “Jew-hater” because he pointed out the errors of some of their ways and the misery they caused?”
        
        This is bullshit. For a start, Jesus was a Jew. And contrary to your Biblically illiterate claim, he was not talking about Jews in general in this criticism. When you use “their” and “they” you are misquoting Jesus. His criticism was solely towards some of the Pharisees, not towards Jews in general. The Pharisees were only one movement within the broader Jewish population. Nor were they, as both you and Reid have claimed, the leaders of Israel at the time.
        
        Jesus’ dispute with the Pharisees was about theology and religious practice. It was similar to the dispute between Catholics and Protestants during the Reformation. Claiming, as you do, that this dispute was a criticism by Jesus of Jews in general that affirms your anti-Jewish conspiracy theories is both profoundly ignorant of what Jesus was actually saying and abusing Scripture.
        
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        July 30, 2017 12:03pm
      - Shawn Herles
        
        “we’ve got a Jewish journalist saying tjat all Europeans are “getting what they deserve”
        
        So what? I can trump that with hundreds of non-Jewish liberals saying the same thing, and produce Jews who disagree with that view. I can also produce Jews are pro-Western nationalists.
        
        Paul Gottfried. Stephen Miller (in the Trump admin and close to Steve Bannon) David Hororwitz and many others.
        
        I can also produce this, again. A defense of the West and of Western nationalism by a Jew in a Jewish magazine.
        
        https://mosaicmagazine.com/essay/2016/09/nationalism-and-the-future-of-western-freedom/
        
        Jews are not the problem EAD.
        
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        July 30, 2017 12:13pm
      - EAD_TWO
        
        Shawn, for a start, being an American, all of your biblical knowledge comes from the corrupted Scofield Bible http://www.rense.com/general60/zcre.htm which rather explains your curious interpretation of the bible.
        
        Jesus’ dispute with the Pharisees was about theology and religious practice.
        
        That statement really is a bare faced lie and gross omission of some very important detail. The whole point of Jesus life was to show both Pharisee and Sadducee Jews the errors of their ways. He called out their lies, wicked behaviour and showed the wider Jewish population that they did not have to listen to the evils of their leaders.
        
        They hated him for hoisting them by their own petards and united to have him killed for they feared losing their grip on power.
        See: John 11:48-50; Mark 14:53; 15:1
        
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        July 30, 2017 9:07pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      prevaricate
      prɪˈvarɪkeɪt/
      verb
      speak or act in an evasive way.
      “EAD seemed to prevaricate when Griff asked pointed questions”
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:07pm
Jack5

Morning Griff.

That was an interesting post you made yesterday about being self-powered off the grid. Good on you.

You didn’t mention any small diesel or petrol generator as back-up, so presumably you do without one.

How to you access the Internet? Are you on one of the wireless providers that are being promoted as an alternative to line-phone ADSL?
9 0
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July 30, 2017 11:40am
- Gruffydd
  
  Read it again jack 5
  I have a 3500kw petrol inverter generator as back up.
  The Genny has run the welder a few times and gets fired up once in a while for a maintenance run.
  
  Presently G3 cellular though a mobile wifi hot spot that takes an ariel jack.
  
  FWIW
  Going off grid is my idea of fun.
  I enjoy mastering the challenge of supplying my own power.
  Doing so has nothing to do with climate change.
  NZ has mostly renewable electricity generation already
  
  Edit,
  
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  July 30, 2017 12:10pm
  - PhilBest
    
    Ironically, urban planners hell-bent on “compact cities”, actually are a major obstacle to off-grid living as a significant choice. Environmentalists in the 1970’s were mostly about going self-sufficient, off-grid, back to nature, etc etc. But sometime around the collapse of communism, they morphed into some kind of haters of western humanity, determined instead to turn us all into urban battery hens.
    
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    July 30, 2017 12:21pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      The Values Party was a New Zealand political party. It is considered the world’s first national-level environmentalist party,[1][2] pre-dating the use of “Green” as a political label.
      ……
      Subsequent to the demoralising (1981) election result, the Values Party faced internal conflict between the “red” greens and the “fundamentalist” Greens, and it fragmented amidst quarrels about organisational principles.
      
      Griff is a neo Liberal.
      Closer to DPF’s politics than many commenters here .
      Don’t blame me if you have taken a political stance on a question of science.
      
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      July 30, 2017 12:37pm
    - realityczech
      
      Its well accepted that the environmental movement has been over run with hard left political zealots. They are not liberal in any sense of the word and don’t give a shit about the environment.
      
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      July 30, 2017 5:17pm
noskire

Must be about time for another poll to come out. I’m picking at least a 4% drop for both the Gweens and Labour. Of more interest will be where those votes have gone.
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July 30, 2017 11:49am
- RF
  
  TV1 are trumpeting a new poll that will be disclosed at 6pm. I heard Angrys name mentioned but missed the content.
  
  Hopefully crooked Metiria gets handed her fat arse.
  
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  July 30, 2017 5:26pm
Monique Watson

Overnight. Another ICBM lobbed over to the Sea of Japan. The U.S fleet had a standoff with Iran. And to add to the whole interesting picture, Facebook just shut down an A.I. program as the robots were quickly more interested in talking to each other than humans.
http://uproxx.com/technology/facebook-ai-language-research/
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July 30, 2017 12:50pm
Scorpion

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL
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July 30, 2017 2:02pm
- Gruffydd
  
  Hell no.
  Goat curry is hard find as it is..
  
  7 6
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  July 30, 2017 2:58pm
starboard

“Barry Soper said he was shocked that someone went to town armed with a knife”

Really? What planet has he been living on?
Shocked that someone took a knife into the city?
What a tool.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/95255616/newstalk-zb-broadcaster-barry-sopers-son-stabbed-on-a-night-out
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July 30, 2017 2:05pm
- kowtow
  
  The media , luvvies , courts , pollies , churches etc were all to the forefront of the hug a crim fashion ,soft sentencing, easy bail blah blah
  
  Then when it happens close to home they feign surprise !
  
  The loon who shot those two wimmin only got 18 months for maiming a cop way back in the ’80’s for GBH . He should have been up for attempted murder and locked up for the rest of his natural.
  
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  July 30, 2017 3:56pm
waikatogirl

Guess Barry missed the reports of a 16, 13 and 12 year old stabbing a Hamilton man checking the cars in his street, the night before.
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July 30, 2017 2:46pm
- Gabby
  
  He was shocked it could happen to one of his exalted ilk. Puller Goon take note.
  
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  July 30, 2017 3:25pm
Monique Watson

Coors Light is shit. Combo of cinnamon and donkey vomit. Still helps the taper process. Just saying.
3 2
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July 30, 2017 3:43pm
- kowtow
  
  Ha , reminds me of the old one where the lab report on a beer sample is returned to the brewery
  
  “Sadly ,sir, it appears your horse has diabetes.”
  
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  July 30, 2017 4:09pm
- Awww C-mon
  
  With the price and abundance of Bourbon over there why bother?
  
  3 0
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  July 30, 2017 5:27pm
  - Monique Watson
    
    Exactly. And not to mention the quality of the tequila here.
    Cigs are under $5, just like when I was sixteen. Not that I smoke of course,
    Just can’t get a good meat pie from a dairy.
    
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    July 30, 2017 5:41pm
slightlyrighty

Well, election time is upon us, and the billboards are up.

I always fined it odd that those on the right will leave the Labour and Green hoardings well alone, while those on the left will deface and destroy anything blue.
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July 30, 2017 5:02pm
- dad4justice
  
  The gween billboards are already defaced and destroyed – they have a smug criminal fat pig on them.
  
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  July 30, 2017 5:30pm
Gabby

I find my selective blindness gets worse round about now too slottyrotty.
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July 30, 2017 5:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Latest Terrorist episode in Oz is the 13th “significant disruption” since 2014.
70 ‘lone wolves” have been charged in the last 3 years.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/airport-security-heightened-following-sydney-counterterrorism-plot-to-bring-down-aeroplane-20170729-gxlk1f.html
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July 30, 2017 5:27pm
Happychappy

Apparently not so good news for Labours Andrew Little in One News Colmar Bruton latest Poll lets hope it is true.
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July 30, 2017 5:40pm
RF

Further to my post at 5.26 re Angry and poll out tonight.

Another teaser from TV1. I do believe Angry is in the shit…….
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July 30, 2017 5:43pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah… he’s on the big slide to oblivion…
  but can you really believe that the Greens have bloomed?
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:07pm
Captain Mainwaring

Stop Press.
Latest TV1 poll has Slavelabour at 24%, Angry is talking of resigning.
The surprise is the Melons up to 15%. That will surely change after the slow-learners wake up to Meteria’s recent adventures.
Combined, they deserve about 30% and the Nats can only go up from their 47%.
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July 30, 2017 6:09pm
- realityczech
  
  I suspect Winston will do even better this year. That should lead to some hysterical outbursts on KB from the vile haters.
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:15pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Winston will do real good this election. National are in for a nasty shock.
    
    2 14
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    July 30, 2017 6:19pm
    - realityczech
      
      Last time he polled up there with the Greens being only 2% behind them. Yet our crooked media treat the Greens like a major party giving them constant favourable attention and only report on NZ first to mock Winston. The media propaganda seems to work on the ignorant and feeble minded judging by KB.
      
      And the news is even better for the preferred leader with Winston only second to English. Winston Peters is the second most preferred leader in NZ
      
      It shows how far up their own arses many KB commentors are.
      
      http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/06/poll-labour-crumbles-falling-towards-defeat.html
      
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      July 30, 2017 6:29pm
      - Awww C-mon
        
        Shows the lack of options…
        
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        July 30, 2017 7:44pm
- Brigitte
  
  Angry might not need to resign – at this rate the voters could well take that decision out of his hands.
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:19pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Angry’s offer to resign was declined by the liarbore caucus. Anyone else guessing it is difficult to replace him with the unions anointed choice until after the election. Once Willy Jackson gets elected, lets see if he rises quickly to be the nominated head of the liabore crew.
  
  Sad to see the greens had a jump in the polls and it was after ME TU announced her fraud and loosening of the rules for other layabouts after the election. Sad, very sad for the country.
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:26pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I’m now starting to think that the Greens figure was a piss-take on the part of those polled.
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:27pm
  - RalphT
    
    I wish you were right, Captain, but I fear that is not the case. There is a solid core of voters who expect to be waited on hand and foot by the poor taxpayer. They see Meteria as the saviour who will lead them into the promised land; failing that a state house for life.
    
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    July 30, 2017 7:39pm
realityczech

I suspect only way National will lose the election is if an opponent discovers the reason Key stepped down.
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July 30, 2017 6:31pm
- Happychappy
  
  Another loser that has to pray for a miracle aye realtyczech John Key is your only hope, dream on.
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:40pm
  - realityczech
    
    “John Key is your only hope”
    
    Happychappy John Key is no longer a politician. So how is he the only hope ?
    
    ” loser”
    I voted for Key every time he stood as PM. Is that why I am a “loser” ?
    
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    July 30, 2017 6:50pm
    - Happychappy
      
      So if I Remember right John Key said it was for his Wife and family why he stepped down so why make out it was another reason.
      
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      July 30, 2017 7:16pm
      - realityczech
        
        Yes he said that. Maybe it was true. I doubt it.
        
        Do you always believe everything a politician says ? Are you a bit… simple ?
        
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        July 30, 2017 8:14pm
- Gabby
  
  Or what was on the Toddger Tapes.
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:40pm
Happychappy

So what is NZ coming to when fraud is rewarded in Politics on top of Dot Com, Nicky Hagar profiting from crime every thing stacked in the criminals favour now days.
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July 30, 2017 6:44pm
- realityczech
  
  I can’t stand Hagar but he revealed some dirty tricks. That is for real. You are ignoring that and going after the messenger to divert from the facts.
  
  I bet you also believe in the lunatic theories about Russians hacking Hillary’s emails, while ignoring what the emails actually revealed.
  
  It is people like you, and others on KB, who have turned me off National.
  
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  July 30, 2017 6:53pm
  - Happychappy
    
    It’s hypocrites like you that condone theft and fraud that makes me sick. Then on top of that you slang off people like John Key because he’s been a success.
    
    10 4
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    July 30, 2017 7:09pm
    - realityczech
      
      WTF !!! 🙂
      
      I voted for Key. Next time ACT. What are you on about you gibbering fool ?
      
      No one party is all good or all bad. Do you not grasp that ?
      
      3 8
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      July 30, 2017 7:13pm
niggly

Oh goody, just logged back on after a few hours and found 1, then scroll scroll no make that 2, scroll scroll scroll shit make that 3, scroll scroll scroll scroll unbelievable make that 4 Hugh posts all in a row one after they after, to down tick! Bonus!!!
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July 30, 2017 6:59pm
- realityczech
  
  It won’t maintain the grossly overpriced housing market though. It will collapse regardless. You should be fine as long as you didn’t pay to much (eg: you purchased the property 14 years ago) and you don’t sell. No need for the fear little man.
  
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  July 30, 2017 7:05pm
  - niggly
    
    I hear what you are saying!
    
    Confession time – I do actually read Hugh’s posts (before down ticking – I only do so because of his continual cutting and pasting and shouty-ranting writing style)!
    
    Now if only Hugh would take a topical housing issue, write about the issue in his own words for a paragraph or two (no repetitive cut and paste links), then ideally write a considered paragraph on how to deal with the issue in his opinion (instead of simply “playing the man” attacking eg the Minister or whomever), then surely everyone would be a lot more interested and enlightened!
    
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    July 30, 2017 8:33pm
stigie

realityczech and dad are voting for Winston…..is there anybody else..?
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July 30, 2017 7:09pm
- realityczech
  
  I’m heading towards ACT. I think Winston is NZ First.
  
  Tell us who NZ preferred PM is after English. Just to show your political opinions are informed…
  
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  July 30, 2017 7:11pm
  - Brigitte
    
    Who is the preferred PM *after* English? You mean in 2026 when he steps down; bit far away to make that call I reckon.
    
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    July 30, 2017 7:18pm
    - realityczech
      
      As preferred Prime Minister, Bill English is up to 26.2 percent with Winston Peters in second place
      
      Reality v Bias & Fake News
      
      http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/06/poll-labour-crumbles-falling-towards-defeat.html
      
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      July 30, 2017 7:23pm
      - sooty
        
        Where’s Angry?
        
        3 0
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        July 30, 2017 7:52pm
      - realityczech
        
        Sooty
        
        “But Labour is falling way back on 26.4 percent – a big and painful drop of 4.4 percent, the lowest on this poll since the last election.”
        
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        July 30, 2017 7:58pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  @ stigie:
  How much are you offering?
  
  I’m open to bribes.
  
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  July 30, 2017 7:46pm
  - stigie
    
    Please Maggy, do you have to tell all of Kiwiblog, they are smart people, lets keep it to ourselves..?
    
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    July 30, 2017 8:07pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think you’re a cheap-skate, stigie…
      
      I’m holding out for the highest bribe.
      
      2 0
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      July 30, 2017 9:40pm
      - stigie
        
        Johnboy could be along anytime soon Maggy..?
        
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        July 30, 2017 9:58pm
Sublime

I will be eating some humble pie this evening.

I don’t think I wrote it on here … I did not pick the Greens jumping in the poll like they did tonight. I thought they’d have dropped maybe one or or two percentage points or, if anything, stayed on about 10. I got it wrong.

… although this is just one poll. And the question is: will it last? This poll might’ve been carried out in the earlier stages of Metiria’s admission when fewer details were public knowledge.
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July 30, 2017 7:44pm
- Brigitte
  
  As I see it the parties have offered:
  
  Nats – tax cuts (everyone despite what Lab says)
  Lab – no tax cuts (even low paid) but money to hospitals
  Greens – welfare free-for-all
  
  How that goes into the actual poll results has got me completely baffled.
  
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  July 30, 2017 7:49pm
- niggly
  
  No worries it’s just the Left shuffling around (eg Labour down, perhaps the Greens attracted some of Mana’s disaffected vote etc).
  
  Interesting to see National and NZF steady, so that’s good for their respective supporters.
  
  Be interesting to see the next polls from TV3 Reid Research (must be due soon, no doubt Paddy Gower is itching to sharpen the knife) and Roy yo-yo Morgan etc!
  
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  July 30, 2017 7:57pm
stigie

Fully agree Sublime, remember the media were very soft on her for the first week and as you say, may not reflect in this poll to where they should be !~
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July 30, 2017 7:50pm
sooty

Winston Peters, leader of the Opposition!
Little out on his ear!
Labour fighting for relevance with the Greens.
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July 30, 2017 7:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Hey, all that effort RNZ and TV One put into the Todd Barclay non-story has paid off big-time for the Opposition, hasn’t it?
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July 30, 2017 8:03pm
nasska

I see the poll as confirmation that the Greens have got the bludger & no hoper vote sewn up.

Less clear are the voting intentions of those who will have to pay for the largesse. We see too many of them waffling about “giving National a backbone” or “teaching the Nats a lesson”.

Conservatives & losers to the bone.
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July 30, 2017 8:10pm
- Gabby
  
  The retailers and landlords among them are salivating at the thought of all that extra beneficiary money.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:18pm
  - stigie
    
    It won’t be happening Gobby i tells ya !~
    
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    July 30, 2017 8:25pm
- Gruffydd
  
  Margin of error stuff yet nasska .
  National are doing very well to still be 47% going into a forth term.
  NZF?
  Remember this blog is an echo chamber not a representation of NZ .
  The clamor of the Conservatives last time round was deafening. You would have thought they were a dead cert for 20+% reading KB. Many of the same malcontents and populists are backing black on here this time.
  
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  July 30, 2017 8:30pm
  - nasska
    
    You’re right Griff. The same group of malcontents are now backing NZ First after slagging them off ceaselessly last time.
    
    I was really concerned that the Conservatives would break the 5% barrier in 2014 put the support was all piss & wind.
    
    And Colin’s gone all quiet on politics of late. 🙂
    
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    July 30, 2017 8:39pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      Win or lose Colon was going to be entertaining.
      Unfortunately with labout imploding I would expect NZF to well.
      
      The man is a contemptible fraud. I would rather see national tell him to Foxtrot Oscar.
      
      The black pill is toxic, the red is shriveled and manky looking, the green one stinks of corruption.
      
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      July 30, 2017 8:56pm
simpleton1

I guess there would be no devout muslims at that night club, with alcohol and music.

…. One person has been killed and several others injured in a shooting at a nightclub in southern Germany.
Witnesses told German news agency dpa that the attacker had a machine gun and shot at the crowd inside the building indiscriminately, local media reported…
…. 34-year-old gunman exchanged fire with police before he was shot at the scene by armed officers.
The critically injured shooter was taken to hospital where he later died……
https://www.klfm967.co.uk/news/world-news/2342273/one-killed-several-hurt-as-gunman-opens-fire-in-german-nightclub/

Would that ‘machine gun’ be something like an AK47 on automatic?.

At least the Hamburg knife attacks whilst shouting “Allahu akabar” was considered to be possibly only islamist and not jihadi.
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July 30, 2017 9:26pm
- Don the Kiwi
  
  Allahu Akhbar
  
  2 1
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  July 30, 2017 9:32pm
- simpleton1
  
  Good on you, Don, for the correction.
  You and I are getting quite good in understanding Arabic.
  Just how much more Arabic are we expected to learn?, and by when?
  It could become quite a life saver, to be able quote a number of verses from some old 1400 year Middle East book. 🙂
  
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  July 30, 2017 9:38pm
- simpleton1
  
  A police-trained upright person, from Iraq. Will wonders never cease?
  
  According to the police, the perpetrator is a 34-year-old police-trained Iraqi. However, he had probably not come to the country as an asylum seeker, but had been living in Germany for some time. Whether the act is terroristically motivated, is still unclear at the present time. At the request of the German magazine “Stern” the police said that the man had only been in the club for a few minutes. There is so far no evidence of a terrorist background, it could have been a relationship act, a police officer said.
  
  Lap with machine gun around him
  
  The man is said to have shot a machine pistol. “Visitors could save themselves by escaping into the open or hiding,” said a spokesman for the police
  http://www.kleinezeitung.at/international/5260734/Deutschland_Zwei-Tote-bei-Schiesserei-in-Disco_Taeter-war [used google translate]
  
  That makes sense, a relationship act, so if you have friends like this, you sure do not need enemies 🙂
  Such a good game to play as you can hide or run for the open.
  Those jolly Germans seem to enjoy the game 🙂 ,and just a pity that it turns tragic for some.
  
  Perhaps I should not take the mickey out of the translation, but then again I am not laughing about the out-come.
  
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  July 30, 2017 10:00pm
Left Right and Centre

1)

The image is a long way from what the late pop star looked like in the later stages of his life.

Now – let’s see – how can we make that sentence a lot less firkin *grating* ?

The image is a long way from how the pop star looked in later life.

2) I unfortunately hear every now and then TV spam ads begging idiots to switch to TV3 news apps. Too funny. We asked Mr swiss cheese to try our crap news for a week etc Reminds me of firkin skincare ads – we asked Mrs scared of ageing to try new miracle breakthrough hope in a bottle for a week.

You watch TV news for the pretty pictures – and that’s it. You want to learn anything ? Read text online.
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July 30, 2017 10:52pm
Scorpion

NO MORE RELIGIOUS TAXES ON FOOD

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION

THIS IS A CRIMINAL SCAM

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL

BOYCOTT HALAL
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July 30, 2017 10:59pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuZEv4NKOIE

“Do NOT come to the UK!” Britain First team heads to Calais to deter migrants!

GOLD
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July 30, 2017 11:05pm
- Peter
  
  What is most telling is why they don’t go to Middle Eastern/Muslim countries.
  
  They don’t say, but I’m guessing it’s because those countries aren’t full of SJW guilt-ridden dickheads who will sacrifice everything rather than risk being called a bad name.
  
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  July 31, 2017 12:15pm

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