April 24th, 2013 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

A group is calling for the Government to consider legalising multi-partner marriages.

The group set up a Facebook page just before the Marriage Amendment Bill passed through Parliament last week, legalising gay marriage.

A statement on the page described multi-partner – or polyamorous – marriage as “responsible, adult, committed non-monogamy,” and said all committed loving relationships between adults regardless of number should be respected and given legal acknowledgement.

“Some Australian Greens have now got a lobby group going, there are several MPs around the world coming out as poly and poly-friendly and it seems the time is right to at least bring it to the attention of the New Zealand public and New Zealand parliament,” the group said.

“This will be a long-term project but with the rest of the world getting on the bandwagon legal multiple partner marriages/unions may one day be accepted.”

It’s an anonymous Facebook group. I’ll take this debate seriously when there are actual New Zealanders living in polyamorous relationships who are willing to step forward and say they want to be able to have multiple husbands or wives.

Most people have gay friends or acquaintances. I know probably a few thousand people and don’t know any of them who are in a polyamorous relationship. There was some Auckland celebrity who was in one a few years ago, but I can’t recall who they were.

Is this a debate that we may have one day? Possibly.

As it happens polyamorous marriages are already recognised in New Zealand law, if they were married in a country which allows them and now live here. I wonder if Stats NZ or DIA has any data on how many of these there are?

Polygamy more justified than same sex marriage?

March 18th, 2013 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar



Some free campaign advice from me.

If one of your major arguments against same sex marriage is that it will lead to polygamous marriage also being made legal, it’s not a great idea to state that polygamy is more justified than same sex marriage, as a natural institution.

Interesting of the three sorts of polygamy, polygyny is most common – a man with multiple wives. As Liz points out it is already legal in around 60 countries. Polyandry is not really legal anywhere and exists in a just a few far flung places.

Also of interest is that the Nazis looked at making polygyny legal because WWII killed so many men. Their reasoning was that with such a shortage of men, some men have to have multiple wives so that all German women could have children.

Polygamy and same sex marriage

January 10th, 2013 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Ms Wall provided research to the Herald which showed that all of the 11 countries that have legalised gay marriage have outlawed polygamy.

None of the 50 countries that recognised polygamy under civil law formally recognised same-sex relationships.

Ms Wall said that in most cases, polygamy was legal in countries that repressed women, not socially progressive countries like New Zealand.

“You have countries where you can be whipped, fined, flogged, sent to jail for the rest of your life [for being in a gay relationship] so to say that marriage equality is a stepping stone to polygamy completely misrepresents the truth globally.”

I have to agree with Louisa that the countries which have polygamy tend to regard women as chattels and homosexuals as criminals.

I wonder if any of those 50 countries that allow polygamy, allow polygyny (one man married to multiple wives) and polyandry (one woman married to multiple husbands) or just polygyny?

Interestingly NZ law does give some recognition under the Family Proceedings Act to polygamous marriages made overseas, if legal in the country they resided in.

Anyway I personally do not accept the argument that if you support same sex marriage you should support polygamous marriage. I don’t think people have any significant choice over their sexual orientation. I do think people have a choice about the number of people they want to be in a relationship with.

Secret polygamy agenda denied

August 13th, 2008 at 6:53 am by David Farrar

Colin Espiner reports that Social Development Minister Rith Dyson is denying any secret polygamy agenda, despite a speech on the Beehive website saying the Government was moving to recognise triples.

Dyson says she never even delivered the speech, and doesn’t even know what triples refers to.

To assist Minister Ruth, we provuide the following from Wikipedia:

  1. polygamy: the practice of multiple marriage (a Greek word)
  2. polygyny: a man who has more than one wife (poor bastard 🙂
  3. polyandry: a woman who has more than one husband
  4. polyamory: having more than one intimate relationship at a time with the consent of all involved
  5. polyfidelity: multiple romantic relationships with sexual contact restricted to specific partners in a group

Of course with same sex relationships, it gets even more complicated. What is the term for a trio of lesbians all joined in a civil union? No it isn’t pay per view 🙂

Asked what the Government’s policy on polygamous relationships was, Dyson said: “The social security legislation is very clear about what a relationship is you’re either single or a couple. A couple is in the nature of marriage, which includes civil union and de facto.

“It’s been the same for years. It’s been tested in court. There’s no interest in changing it.”

An interesting response. The first part is stating what the law is, and the second part is merely saying there is no interest in changing it. That avoids the question of whether the Minister thinks polygamy should be legal? I mean did this speech just appear out of a vacuum?

Finally they ask Judith Collins for comment:

Collins said she was “intrigued” that the Government’s new social development model “now includes something called triples, and my mind just boggles”.

Asked for her view on Government recognition of polygamy, Collins said: “I don’t worry about what consenting adults get up to. I just don’t expect the taxpayer to pay for it.”


A late link to TGIF

August 10th, 2008 at 10:36 am by David Farrar

Ian Wishart has released the first edition of his new weekly e-newspaper – TGIF. The first edition is available for free. As web designer Dennis Smith has noted, it is quite large (8.5 MB), but probably hard to have it much smaller and retain the quality.

The lead story focuses on this quote from Ruth Dyson:

“Shifting the focus from social welfare to social development is about considering the wellbeing of the whole population, and communities within that population, rather than solely focusing on the traditional family group. We must cater for the diversity, we know exists. By this I mean the range of relationships from single, couples, triples, blended, de facto, and so on. That’s where we’re going with social policy.”

Now this is not just something Dyson blurted out, or was secretly taped saying in a sting operation. This was in her speech notes on the Beehive website. They have since taken it down, which suggests the Government knows it is embarrassing. That is in itself worthy of questions as the Beehive website is meant to be a record of all Ministerial speeches, and not just selected ones.

Now I’m a fan of the TV series Big Love, but really I don’t think the Government needs to be catering for the polygamists. In fact in most countries they actually tend to discourage polygamy, while Ruth seems to want the NZ Government to cater for it.