General Debate 18 November 2019

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mikenmildagain

Not many international holidays today. But for Catholics, you can celebrate Dorset’s St Juthwara, the patron saint of round cheeses. She was also one of those entertaining cephalophores – picked up her own head after being decapitated.
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November 18, 2019 8:01am
- SGA
  
  Intersting – especially how the round cheese bit comes into it.
  From Wikipedia
  ” Upon the death of her father, she began to suffer a pain in her chest. Its source was ascribed to her sorrow and austerities. As a remedy, her stepmother recommended two soft cheeses be applied to her breasts, telling her own son, Bana, that Juthwara was pregnant. Bana felt her underclothes and found them moist, whereupon he immediately struck off her head. A spring of water appeared at the spot. Juthwara then miraculously picked up her head and carried it back to the church.”
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:16am
  - MH
    
    ended up in Wisconsin ?
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:53am
  - nasska
    
    …..”Juthwara then miraculously picked up her head and carried it back to the church”……
    
    I’ll raise you a walking on water fairy tale & a loaves & fishes fable. 🙂
    
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    November 18, 2019 4:13pm
Billy Collins

So, Marie Yovanovitch lied in her testimony, and either Taylor or Holmes, or both, lied in theirs.

Are any of these people going to be investigated?

Probably not.
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November 18, 2019 8:06am
- Billy Collins
  
  In her opening statements, Marie said:
  
  “Although I have met former vice president Joe Biden several times over the course of our many years in government service, neither he nor the previous administration ever raised the issue of either Burisma or Hunter Biden with me.”
  
  However, during the hearing, Rep. Elise Stefanik asked her:
  
  “The first time you personally became aware of Burisma was actually when you were being prepared by the Obama State Department for your Senate confirmation hearings, and this was in the form of practice questions and answers. This was your deposition. And you testified in this particular practice Q & A with the Obama State Department, it wasn’t just generally about Burisma and corruption. It was specifically about Hunter Biden and Burisma. Is that correct?”
  
  Marie answered: “Yes. It is.”
  
  No wonder Schiff is trying to stop Republicans from asking questions…
  
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  November 18, 2019 8:36am
  - fernglas
    
    Where’s the lie? She said that the “issue” of Burisma and Biden was never “raised” with her, which suggests something to be dealt with or considered in the context of her professional duties. Isn’t that quite different from having heard of them? I know many things, but not all of them have been raised as an issue with me.
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:31am
    - Billy Collins
      
      “Isn’t that quite different from having heard of them?”
      
      Being trained by the Obama administration on how to answer questions related to Hunter and Burisma during a confirmation hearing is not at all equivalent to “heard of them”.
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Perhaps Sondland, Bolton, Mulvaney, Giuliani and Trump himself should get over to congress and testify to clear up everything.
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:19am
    - Billy Collins
      
      The Dems and the media decided that Trump had called neo nazis “very fine people” in the exact same speech that he said “I’m not talking about neo nazis and white supremacists. They should be condemned totally”.
      
      Remember, the whole thing started on a false claim, that Trump had threatened to withhold aid in a phone call, which didnt happen.
      
      A guy said another guy told him that he sat next to another guy who was on the phone to another guy who said the word “investigation” from the other end of the phone, and his opinion is that it was Trump. The Dems and the media claim this is a bombshell claim.
      
      The point is, Trump could be crystal clear, and you know it will be twisted and used against him. They will turn the most innocent statement in to a weapon.
      
      Clear up everything? You mean give them ammo?
      
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      November 18, 2019 11:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Poor petal. Afraid to give his side of the story, especially under oath?
        
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        November 18, 2019 11:55am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Billy Collins. Help you out here.
    para 1
    “neither he (Joe Biden) nor the previous administration ever raised the issue of either Burisma or Hunter Biden with me.”
    para 2
    “And you testified in this particular practice Q & A with the Obama State Department, it wasn’t just generally about Burisma and corruption. It was specifically about Hunter Biden and Burisma. Is that correct?”
    Marie answered: “Yes. It is.”
    
    Repeat ‘it wasn’t just generally about Burisma and corruption. It was specifically about Hunter Biden and Burisma.”
    
    No mention of Joe Biden there. In fact the question was specifically about Hunter Biden and Burisma.
    
    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/ukraine-gas-company-burisma-holdings-joe-bidens-son-hunter-explained-2019-9?r=US&IR=T
    
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    November 18, 2019 12:18pm
    - Billy Collins
      
      “No mention of Joe Biden there.”
      
      Correct.
      
      “In fact the question was specifically about Hunter Biden and Burisma.”
      
      Right, which she said the previous administration never raised with her.
      
      ???
      
      Sorry, what point are you trying to make?
      
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      November 18, 2019 2:04pm
- Billy Collins
  
  On Wednesday, November 13th, Taylor said: “Last Friday, a member of my staff told me of events that occurred on July 26.”
  
  However, Holmes said:
  
  ““Upon returning to the Embassy, I immediately told the Deputy Chief of Mission and others at the Embassy about the call with the President and my conversation with Ambassador Sondland.. July 26 was my last day in the office ahead of a planned vacation that ended on August 6. After returning to the Embassy, I told Ambassador Taylor about the July 26 call. I also repeatedly referred to the call and conversation with Ambassador Sondland in meetings and conversations where the issue of the President’s interest in Ukraine was potentially relevant.”
  
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  November 18, 2019 8:55am
- IC5000
  
  Will they be investigated in the same way Roger Stone was for lying to Congress? If they lie I guess.
  
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  November 18, 2019 2:54pm
Gandolfo

The only reality in the MSM is the publication of the death notices which at my age, read on a daily basis, the rest is piffle. Even the date of publication is not true as usually the news are old and reformatted to make them appear new. I cancelled all subscriptions. Freedom!
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November 18, 2019 8:06am
Yvette

How Maori do you have to be, to learn Maori?

Did anyone yesterday comment on –
Mispronouncing Te Reo ‘like physical blow’ to Māori – language teacher
She says many Kiwis of European heritage don’t often grasp the huge impact that mispronunciation of indigenous names, place names and words has on Māori.
“It’s actually like a physical blow.”

Māori place names have a history and a meaning behind them, telling stories of real people who did great things, and they are people who held great prestige.
When the place names are mispronounced, the history and meaning is not honoured.
Because Māori culture is a very spiritual culture, the places, the land, the rivers, the mountains are all hugely significant.
“Those places deserve the respect of having their names pronounced correctly, just as people deserve the respect of having their names pronounced correctly.” [1]

So, she played up front the card that the first nations people are more spiritual than the rest.
How, really, do you measure that? People who mention a mountain, lake and river in relation to their birth, or survived Auschwitz or Bergen-Belsen?

“When you get to a certain age, you’re less likely to want to revisit how you think and feel, and change the way you think and feel.”

Ageism – but partly right. Although the language teacher does not mention it –
English uses one set of vowels, while other languages – Maori and Japanese, among them – use another set.
A, e, i, o and u, just do not have the same sounds in English and they do in Maori, or Japanese.
After 60 years of using one sound set, how easy is it to use the other – it amounts to almost asking someone to adopt another character or identity to pronounce the set any other way.
And then you are left with those who try that, and those who don’t, with the second group saying “What are you doing?”, “Hark at her!” or, in fact, an inverse racism because you have identified with pronouncing a vowel set differently to what is your heritage.
Think: Learn Maori, with Shane Jones.

Fortunately, alongside the article, in “Related News” there is reference to “The AI-powered chatbot that helps you learn te reo Māori”

“I want to speak te reo Māori and I want to practise every day. But with work and other commitments, it isn’t practical for me to go to classes every night. So I started looking at other ways to engage more in te reo Māori.” [2]
There follows discussion of a computer app which appears to not critic anyone learning the language.

And, helpfully and hopefully, that way does not involve an ageist judgemental pronunciation facist, so it may actually succeed.

Otherwise Maori as a language is pretty much fucked.
People will learn and preserve it in their own terms, or it will be dead in the ditched.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/11/mispronouncing-te-reo-like-physical-blow-to-m-ori-language-teacher.html
[2] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/04/the-ai-powered-chatbot-that-helps-you-learn-te-reo-m-ori.html
___________
Another factor of course is What the Government is spending money on to preserve the language? and various Google searches reveal there is a vast amount – anywhere between $200 – 600 million a year – but there seems to be no all-inclusive list or any agency ultimately responsible. Obviously a little more coherent knowledge in what people are trying to do, may actually assist in getting it done.
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November 18, 2019 8:08am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “Mispronouncing Te Reo ‘like physical blow’ to Māori.”
  I agree. When speaking Te Reo, one should try one’s best to match the officially sanctioned pronunciation of the language.
  When speaking English, there is no need to pronounce loan words as they would be pronounced in their language of origin. For example, when you speak of the capital of France in a sentence in English, do you pronounce the name of the city as “Paris” or as “Pah-ree”? Why should a native speaker of English in Auckland be forced to say “How-laki” when he talks about the Hauraki Gulf?
  
  To do so is to virtue-signal.
  
  “Mispronouncing Te Reo ‘like physical blow’ to Māori” is a phrase that authoritarian bullies will love. It expresses the notion that “language is violence” with the implication that it is acceptable to beat someone if they step outside the behavior that you have prescribed for them. This is very, very intolerant of other opinions and freedoms of expression.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:01am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    Being insufficiently woke, I thought my Pacific Island colleagues from 30 years ago were being friendly when they sometimes called me Tavita, as they still do, and likewise my Maori boss when he called me Rawiri. Now I know they were, if not violent, at least passive-aggressive; I should have punched them out.
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:01am
  - Michael
    
    Odakyu
    Language can be used violently both in suggestion and practice.
    
    Take Stephie boy and his treatment of Maggie for instance.
    
    Again and again in society and the media we learn of people grooming others by their words and concepts they push at them with.
    
    They also use words to destroy and break people over time.
    
    People denigrate and demonise people using words and phrases and innuendo.
    
    I am not happy with the level of denigration here, you wouldn’t do it in a pub or cafe.
    because of the anonymity here people don’t have the constraints.
    There is the “robust atmosphere” attitude, which I understand and have engaged in before now.
    
    Nether less all this is done to “assault” the person in the emotional and psychological realms.
    
    It is a slow slap attack designed to drag them down in those realms and to crush their spirit.
    
    It is what leads to depression and even loss of confidence.
    You may have seen this in the workplace used by bullies.
    
    it is bullying behaviour.
    Any one here with a modicum of common sense understands this.
    
    Then there is the sexual taunts and denigrating language against women on top of or along with the bullying.
    
    DPF understands this all very well.
    As do his Mods.
    As does Stephie.
    
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    November 18, 2019 2:59pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori language is being abused. I am seeing more and more posters, even from Govt sources, where mi-used isolated words are are appearing. Worse still the use of “Maori phrases” without any respect for or show of grammar.
  Te Reo is not adequate for our present modern society. It has too few root words and these have to to be tortured rather than being expressive.
  Another significant problem with Te Reo and Polynesian generally is the vast number of pronouns concisely expressing relationships.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:13am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    And I know what a physical blow is as regards the Maori language.
    When I corrected at Scotsman in a Glaswegian pub about his pronunciation of a Maori word I incurred a physical blow.
    I gather that correcting a person’s pronunciation of Maori is not good for my health.
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:52am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      My daddy was a Glaswegian.
      You would be hard pressed at times to think we were both speaking the same language.
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:28am
      - Swifty
        
        My mother’s father was Glaswegian, from High Blantyre.
        
        He served on The Somme and subsequently came out to NZ in the mid-20s.
        
        Over 70 years later, in the late 90s, as my parents stood across the road from his old stone house taking photos, the curtains moved in the house next door and an old dear subsequently tottered out to see was was up. Long story short she remembered as a young girl the locals all lined up on the street waving off ‘Jock’ as he sought his fortune in that faraway land of New Zealand – and she had remained in her childhood home ever since.
        
        Lots of tea and cakes later they shuffled off….. 🙂
        
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        November 18, 2019 10:51am
      - pdm
        
        In 1977 we stayed with my Aberdonian uncle in Glasgow – talk about a foreign language.
        
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        November 18, 2019 11:06am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        My late wife was the family interpreter when Taggat was on!!!
        
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        November 18, 2019 11:14am
      - Swifty
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dynAAX0hYQo
        
        There’s been a murder!
        
        🙂
        
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        November 18, 2019 11:21am
- Jack5
  
  Are Maori vowels absent in English, or does the challenge arise from the fact that English is a written language, while Maori, with no written English, used the English alphabet?
  
  Was the spelling of Maori vowels set by the current pronunciations of English at the time of New Zealand’s first contact with the modern world?
  
  English, and perhaps Maori, have changed since then. Could written-form vowels of Maori, a language with no alphabet of its own, be shackled to missionaries’ and whalers’ early 19th century English pronunciation, and to white settlers’ mid-19th century English pronunciation?
  
  The regional accents of missionaries, whalers, sealers, gun-runners, and later white settlers, would have been more evident in those times. Their spelling also was less uniform.
  
  Below is a link to an 1841 report about “kowri” trees. Could the “ow” vowel implied there be the writer’s letters for the vowel as in to “row” a boat? That would be closer to Maori pronunciation.
  
  https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZGWS18411006.2.6?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=kowri&snippet=true
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:17am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I grew up in Manuka St, Castlecliff…..
    and much of my PhD was on manuka and kanuka dynamics
    
    For 40+ years I only heard manuka pronounced as
    minooka, ma-nu-ka, …. with the stress on the 2nd syllable…. but nowadays, the pronunciation has swung to marn-ika….. the u has disappeared.
    
    My favourite quote for this:
    “North Islanders call this plant “marnaka”, South Islanders “manooka”, while the NZ farmers refer to it as a ‘bloody nuisance”.
    -L.R.C. Macfarlane 1948.
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:57am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      What is the Te Reo name for gorse?
      It seems to be a favorite plant on communally owned rural land in this country.
      
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      November 18, 2019 11:06am
      - Nickc2
        
        Anuvva f…..n nusance eh bro!
        
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        November 18, 2019 11:56am
      - sooty
        
        How high is the gorse on the Raglan golf course theese days?
        
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        November 18, 2019 1:30pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Jack5,
    English is not always phonetic.
    The “kow” in the “kowri” tree could have been pronounced like “cow” (“cowri tree”), which matches the common English name for Agathis australis.
    
    English name: kauri (“cow-ri”)
    Te Reo name: kauri (“koh-li”)
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:00am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The “au” when each vovel is pronounced “are”, “ooh” together when spoken quickly comes out like “owl” it can be softened to oh.
    
    There will be regional differences too. The language spoken in oratory on the marae will be different from regular use and from street Maori. Frequently English grammar forms are being substituted too.
    Te Reo now belongs on the marae where it embodies the oral history, genealogy and property rights. There it is essential. It also incorporates familial pronouns not in use in English but the use of English with its flexibility and adaptability more than makes up for the extra words required to express a personal relationship.
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:59am
  - cmm
    
    When the white bloke tried to codify these unwritten languages (Maori, isiZulu etc) he had the problem that there were no English or Western letter groups to describe the sounds some of these languages have.
    
    Hence he had to make up special letter groupss and we end up with a whole lot of things like “wh” etc. in Maori.
    
    The same is isiZulu and isiXhosa which has “ph” (a soft “p”), various clicks and “hl” etc.
    
    Add to that regional variances. In Africa these would have ended up being counted as different languages (eg. isiZulu, isiXhosa and a few other languages are similar enough to be variants of eachother), but here there is one-Maori to cover from Bluff to Cape. No wonder there are arguments as to correct pronunciation.
    
    This, and the fact that African languages are still actually used by millions of people on a day-to-day basis, means that African languages and pronunciations are relatively stable while Maori is not.
    
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    November 18, 2019 3:31pm
- alloytoo
  
  Sometimes, with a best will in the world, it is impossible to enunciate like a native simply because one’s palate has been shaped by one’s own native tongue.
  
  It is in effect a physical speech impediment and to complain about it is bullying.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I cannot easily pronounce Maori words with W and Rs separated by short vowels (rawiri, wiremu or Rere) and I’ve never been able to pronounce squirrel.
    
    (If I take the Maori names slowly and roll my rs.. I can get by)
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:44am
    - Jack5
      
      Apart from Southlanders and folk just to the north of them, New Zealanders aren’t good at pronouncing r’s within words or at the end of words.
      
      We say cah instead of car. Rhoticism is becoming a national speech feature.
      
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      November 18, 2019 11:10am
    - Nickc2
      
      How bit is your rs and how long do you roll it?
      
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      November 18, 2019 11:59am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Joke – lost in typo
        
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        November 18, 2019 3:45pm
Inandout

You would have to be a very brave person to want to continue being a domestic landlord.
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November 18, 2019 8:11am
- krazykiwi
  
  This is a slow nationalisation of assets.
  
  Not the old-fasioned, Stalin-approved jackboots and thugs at midnight method.
  
  But rather the slow annexation of private property rights by statute, using lofty public-good justifications.
  
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  November 18, 2019 8:58am
  - Liberty
    
    “Not the old-fasioned, Stalin-approved jackboots and thugs at midnight method.”
    
    Fortunately politburo once again didn’t think things through. To appease the Greens. New Mining has been banned. Resulting in the salt mine project being closed down.
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:35am
- artemisia
  
  On another site, a poster said that the Residential Tenancies Act is looking more and more like all rentals have to be social housing. Apart from the taxpayer rent subsidy that is.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:17am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “the Residential Tenancies Act”…
    
    I misread that the first time as “the Residential Tentacles Act…”
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:08am
- artemisia
  
  National’s housing policy is due to be released soon. Since the person responsible is Ms Collins I doubt it will be fluff and waffle, or social engineering by stealth.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:19am
  - Michael
    
    we’ll see Artemisa.
    she doesn’t get my vote by a long chalk.
    
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    November 18, 2019 3:04pm
Scott

On the impeachment enquiry most Americans are very sceptical of the media’s reporting. A full 53% of likely US voters think that reporters are trying to impeach Pres Trump. Only 32% believe that the reporters are just reporting the news in a fair and balanced manner.

To me it’s really gone way beyond the media holding the government to account and the Democrats being a loyal opposition. The media and the Democrats have declared war against the duly elected president of the United States. They looked around for any excuse to impeach him once the Russia hoax fell flat. They fastened on Ukraine and here we go again.

Can democracies survive when one side will not accept the election when the opposition wins office? Because that’s what’s happened. The Democrats and the media just never accepted the result of the 2016 election. They have been trying to undo it ever since.

The funny thing is that there is a presidential election less than 12 months away. So if the president of the United States is so terrible then wait less than 12 months and the voters can kick him out of office.

The Democrat congressman Al Green gave the game away when he said, if we don’t impeach then Trump might get re-elected. What an admission to make! If we don’t overthrow this guy then the people might vote him back in!

To Al Green and the rest of the Democrats and their allies in the media, it’s called democracy. They need to learn to accept that the other side can legitimately win elections. They need to learn to accept the results of those elections. Otherwise democracy becomes impossible.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/11/the-democrats-arent-fooling-anyone.php
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November 18, 2019 8:13am
- SGA
  
  The funny thing is that there is a presidential election less than 12 months away. So if the president of the United States is so terrible then wait less than 12 months and the voters can kick him out of office.
  
  Let’s put Trump specifically aside and think about that as a general principle. If a President has been abusing/misusing the powers of the office is it correct for Congress to hold him to account? If a President is facing re-election is it less or more important that such misuse or abuse of power be investigated?
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:02am
  - alloytoo
    
    In general principle, should the corrupt behaviour of a vice president be ignored?
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:20am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No, of course not. Is the FBI investigating?
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:23am
      - Michael
        
        MMM
        Even if the FBI did investigate, can the American people trust them?
        
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        November 18, 2019 3:05pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    I agree totally with your point.
    You know it’s also 100% relevant for Biden as well right? Your argument is actually a reasonable defense of Trump ironically.
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:02am
    - SGA
      
      Actually, no. In your scenario, they both abused their position, but only one is now in a postion to be impeached for his actions (impeachment, remember, is simply a removal from office – it’s not a criminal conviction).
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:13am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        If Biden had actually abused his position, he could presumably still be investigated by the department of justice for his putative crimes.
        
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        November 18, 2019 10:21am
      - SGA
        
        Yes and no, m&m. Yes, that is possible. But, hypothetically both Biden and Trump might have done things that wouldn’t technically break any laws, but be sufficient for impeachment (i.e., removal from office). In which case, the Republicans missed that supposed opportunity with Biden.
        
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        November 18, 2019 10:45am
      - SGA
        
        At least that is how I understand it, I am no expert.
        
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        November 18, 2019 10:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Not really a question Scott wants to consider, is it?
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:06am
    - Michael
      
      nor you truthfully.
      
      Trump was trying to sort out Bidens corruption.
      Biden was protecting his son’s corruption on his behalf…
      
      There is a difference.
      
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      November 18, 2019 3:06pm
      - SGA
        
        Trump was trying to sort out Bidens corruption.
        
        Even if that were true, it’s an odd way of going about it. Trump has plenty of agencies (e.g., DoJ, CIA (it is a foreign country), DoC and FBI) at this disposal (let me guess, NONE of these can be trusted 🙂 ). Sending superspy Guiliani is an odd backdoor.
        
        I suspect that Trump didn’t care whether the Biden’s were corrupt or not – the very fact the Biden was being investigated overseas would be enough for political purposes.
        
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        November 18, 2019 5:51pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Sigh
        Trump first said ‘I would like to have the Attorney- General call you or your people and I would like to get to the bottom of it (Crowdstrike)
        
        Zelensky raised the subject of Giuliani after Trump made that comment and said one of his aides had already reached out to Giuliani. This is because Zelensky wanted it to reach Trump he’s serious about reforming and changing the reputation the previous Govt had for corruption.
        Trump then said if that’s what you want Giuliani and the AG will work with you.
        Here’s an idea. Read the fucking Transcript
        Lol
        
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        November 18, 2019 6:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I guess some people have read the call record (not a transcript, btw), but not understood its contents.
        
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        November 18, 2019 6:28pm
      - SGA
        
        I guess, AoR, we will wait to have see what turns up in the impeachment investigation, Congress, and, if it goes that far, the Senate Trial (I can’t see them bothering with people like Guiliani and Bolton until then). I’m starting to wonder if it will go that far though.
        
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        November 18, 2019 7:17pm
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Al Green did not give the game away,
  
  Al Green??
  
  “Bristling at impeachment threat, Trump repeats false claim that Texan Al Green pushed it as Plan B”
  
  The Houston congressman has voiced concern that Trump might win reelection, but he has never used that to justify impeachment.
  
  https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/10/21/bristling-at-impeachment-threat-trump-repeats-false-claim-that-texan-al-green-pushed-it-as-plan-b/
  
  A Typical Donald Trump fabrication/distortion that is legion under his reign!
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:23am
  - Scott
    
    Hi stephieboy,
    here is that wonderful statesman Al Green giving the very quote that I mentioned in my last post. It’s on video and in the transcript.
    I’ll accept your apology now stephieboy 🙂
    
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/06/al_green_im_concerned_if_we_dont_impeach_this_president_he_will_get_re-elected.html
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:56am
    - Michael
      
      Ha! Scott
      don’t hold your breath.
      No morals that one.
      
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      November 18, 2019 3:07pm
Lee C

Winston and his cronies at it again?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/403335/nz-first-linked-forestry-company-pushed-for-govt-funds?fbclid=IwAR0aWnVBLnsA0dbr4KyFZ9nHymnMYMrGgqWNfnmeLYEnsyQJT51TJNGNY9s
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November 18, 2019 8:15am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Talk about a cosy and close arrangement.
  Unfettered power gives one almost “super” powers.
  The super powers didn’t quite cut the mustard.
  You get what you vote for in this world, MMP is just an bad exaggeration of this, will 5% be game to go another term.
  
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  November 18, 2019 8:32am
G152

Looks like the wankers on the hill have ‘found’ something to beat our
military about the head with.
Kids found an explosive device and played with it and got killed.
The country/area is full of unexploded ordinance.
Some of it deliberately set alongside roads to destroy vehicles and
troops.
Most of it got fired and forgot.
Especially where this is supposed to have happened..
On a firing range FFS.
What do they bloody expect…
And in the middle of a battlefield parents didn’t tell their kids to
not play with anything there ????????????
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November 18, 2019 8:15am
- chaos
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117411799/blast-from-new-zealand-firing-range-ammunition-kills-afghan-children
  
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  November 18, 2019 8:56am
- Inandout
  
  The Yanks and others had also used that range but there are some here who want to destroy our armed forces.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:03am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    The charge for that was not so much the opposition during the conflicts where our military have been employed but, by successive governments underfunding the armed services with the coup de grâce delivered by labours Helen Clark, a socialist for all seasons
    
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    November 18, 2019 1:12pm
    - sooty
      
      Army left in 2013!
      
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      November 18, 2019 1:35pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I wonder if this is connected to Operation Northmoor (investigation into British war crimes in Afghanistan)
  
  UK government and military accused of war crimes cover-up
  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50419297
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:14am
  - Jack5
    
    There does look to be international co-ordination, or at least copying, in Left-wing persecution of the military. Iraq, Northern Ireland, and now Afghanistan.
    
    Helen Clark has joined in. Did she send NZ troops to Afghanistan? She should take a squad of young Labour supporters over to clean up the range used by New Zealanders – and by Americans and Soviet troops. Clark could take with her Stuff’s soldier-hounding hacks and Hager the Horrible.
    
    The Daily Mail take on the campaign against British veterans of Afghanistan:
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7694065/UK-government-Army-accused-covering-war-crimes.html
    
    Helen Clark joins in:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117489366/helen-clark-deadly-unexploded-ordnance-left-on-firing-ranges-used-by-nz-reprehensible
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:43am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You will be pleased to see President Trump leading the way by paroning the US’s war criminals.
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:24am
      - Jack5
        
        ? Milky, that’s a rather slithery way of implying New Zealand soldiers in Afghanistan were war criminals.
        
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        November 18, 2019 11:00am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No, not at all. I have noticed in the past that you are keen on British war criminals from Iraq and Afghanistan evading justice. I’ve yet to be convinced that any New Zealanders have committed similar offences.
        
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        November 18, 2019 11:26am
      - toby1845
        
        Milky: the Maori Battalion committed atrocities on several occasions during WW2.
        
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        November 18, 2019 12:58pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Quite likely, Toby. I don’t think any Allied soldiers faced justice for war crimes committeed in WWII though.
        
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        November 18, 2019 1:37pm
      - Michael
        
        So you use language like Stephie, slithery one.
        Denigraying those who have served with your slime.
        
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        November 18, 2019 3:09pm
- Colville
  
  The explosion didnt happen on the range.
  One of the little Einstiens found the device on the range and carried back to the hills near the village where he got his mates to come have a look.
  Probably threw rocks at it.
  Boom.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:29am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    A blame the children game ?
    
    “NZ Defence Force say firing range was cleared before Afghan children died”
    
    The New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) says a firing range was cleared the year before seven children died from a device allegedly left behind on a NZDF firing range in Afghanistan.
    A Stuff Circuit investigation has revealed 17 civilians were either killed or injured in 2014 in connection with an unexploded ordnance left on New Zealand’s Bamyan firing ranges.
    This includes seven children, aged between 5 and 12, who died in an explosion near the Beersheba Range.
    
    But in a statement provided to Stuff prior to the publication of the story, NZDF said the firing range was cleared in 2013.
    
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nz-defence-force-say-firing-range-cleared-before-afghan-children-died
    
    Cleared in 2013!
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:30am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Or the kids were tasked with finding explosives either for their own villages or to sell to others to manufacture IEDs
    
    God protects the innocent. But no-one is truly innocent.
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:33am
    - stephieboy
      
      Including the “innocents” slaughterd by Herod?
      
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      November 18, 2019 11:55am
      - rangitoto
        
        How about the innocent Egyptian children killed by the god’s goons?
        
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        November 18, 2019 2:48pm
- Bell-47
  
  People in northern Laos are still having their limbs blown off from land mines set in rice fields and other non militarised area’s during the Vietnam war. Kids’s playing at a munitions range is a recipe for disaster regardless of who the ordinance belonged to.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:41am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I don’t know if any are still there, but for quite a few years NZ had engineers deployed to Cambodia and Laos to train locals in demining techniques.
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:26am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      I was bought up in Jersey in the Channel Islands and in the 50’s and 60’s people were being injured and killed by ordinance left behind by the Germans. They still find them and then are disposed of by the Local B&M Disposal bloke
      
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      November 18, 2019 11:18am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Farmers in northern France and Belgium still plough up unexploded ordnance from WWI:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest
        
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        November 18, 2019 12:05pm
    - Kabull
      
      Remember that NZ’s de-mining efforts in Cambodia and Laos were after the Pol Pot regime had been removed. The environment was relatively safe. Unlike Afghanistan which was, and still is, a very dangerous place to be. Not sure I would want to be involved in de-mining back in 2013/14, or even now.
      
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      November 18, 2019 1:05pm
    - Bell-47
      
      They are still there..in dwindling numbers fortunately. There are around 200 reported injuries every year. These days, believe it or not, very large African rats are trained to find them. Not by stepping on them but they can smell the TNT. These rats are used in Cambodia, Laos and a number of other countries specifically for this use. The jungles of northern Laos are largely unpopulated so there are still many places yet to be completely cleared of landmines and UXO’s. With almost 600k bombing missions it will take generations to completely clear the place and even then it’s almost impossible.
      
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      November 18, 2019 2:47pm
- Nickc2
  
  Agree G152. Our Cindy worshoping MSM are out to crucify our Military. They are not about to determine what type of device it was, who manufactured said device, what countries were using that type/batch of device, or even how long the device had been there. Its all about bagging the NZ Military.
  These bastards (MSM) choose to forget that it’s not the Military that go to war, it’s a government that sends it’s Military to war.
  
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  November 18, 2019 12:18pm
oldpark

Finally discovered what is worse than death in NZ.Yes being a residential Landlord in NZ.
After reading what the ex TVNZ reporter called Faafoi. Parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Porirua/Mana now masquerading as a Minister in the Winston Peters selected gang of no hopers to be the NZ Government,has come up with .
Soon to be enacted is legislation putting a stake through the heart of small business NZ.
Yes Landlords whose only so called crime is to provide accomodation for people looking to rent.
Really most of the attack on Landlords has had its Genesis activated by Peters when he selected a bunch of raging socialists to stuff up NZs Living and quality of business and life.
Between Peters Party /Liebour/Greens effing up the Residential Rental Market rents will rocket ,that is if there is anything left to be rented ,once it sinks into Landlords they are under attack and when they read the latest punitive attacks on their rental property in favour of renters.
Who the **** would be a landlord.
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November 18, 2019 8:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There have been legal work arounds in the past.
  Hoping for quick termination of the cabal of no-hopers.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:19am
- oldgolfer
  
  Exactly.
  Watch prices rise and landlords exit the scene, especially those with one or two properties.
  Faafoi is frequently held up as being one of the competent ministers.
  I have yet to see any evidence.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:20am
- Prince
  
  The coalition despise anyone wanting to provide a service at a profit.
  1) Rent freeze for twelve months will be counterproductive. Landlords will ensure they minimise risk by hiking the rent at the annual review as much as possible to cover damages etc over the next twelve months.
  2) The ‘three strikes’ rule is crazy. You have to wait for three instances of property destruction or worse before applying to the Central Committee for Rental Affairs to request termination approval. What is the timeline for that committee review ? Does anyone think the tenants, after three instances of wanton destruction, will sit around quietly waiting for the review ? This Government is totally out of touch with reality. They must go.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:50am
- Sideoiler
  
  Finally discovered what is worse than death in NZ.Yes being a residential Landlord in NZ.
  
  All is not lost, My last full time tenant terminated their tenancy approx 13 months ago, all my residential properties are now AirBnB, with one exception all are returning as much or better than a tenant, wear and tear is almost non existent, tenancy tribunals no longer needed.
  I am phoned regularly by property managers offering to find me a tenant, or prospective tenants offering to rent long term.
  Thank you labour for driving me to find a better and more profitable business model.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:43am
- artemisia
  
  Who would be a landlord? Actually it’s a great time to be a landlord. A growing population, a shrinking rental pool, rents going up, even slightly risky tenants turfed out before the new rules come in.
  
  Well not sure about a shrinking rental pool as Mr Faafoi’s department says there are estimated to be 609,700 rentals, up from 453,135 in 2013. That is an expanding rental pool. Small problem. 2013 numbers are from the census. 2018 numbers are not available yet, just an estimate.
  
  New actual number will be interesting, given anecdotally landlords are selling up and factually residential bank lending (new rentals coming in to the pool) remains very low compared to 3 or 4 years ago.
  
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  November 18, 2019 5:39pm
Maggie Pie

NO SWEAT!

We watched the Prince Andrew BBC interview last nite.
He looked to me to be sweating like a pedophile driving slowly in a school zone.
Yet despite what rape accuser Virginia Roberts had to say, the entitled twat maintained, “He doesn’t sweat”. [All due to a condition known as Anhidrosis.] Reckons he contracted it “….when he was a soldier and got shot at in the Falklands War”. LOL!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJj0SHJWwAAwS_U?format=jpg&name=small
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November 18, 2019 8:21am
- chaos
  
  He is just digging his hole deeper. He will go down for this, so will many politically and celebrities. It’s only just beginning
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:01am
  - Inandout
    
    chaos, the ‘many’ include half of Hollywood, and people still say Epstein topped himself.
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:05am
    - chaos
      
      One of the republicans did an interesting tweet the other day, I think it was 23 tweets that the first letter from each tweet spelled Epstein didn’t kill himself, lol
      
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/11/14/paul-gosar-jeffrey-epstein-tweets-secret-message/
      
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      November 18, 2019 9:39am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      inandout , according to the Chief New York medical examiner who did the autopsy Epstein did top himsef
      
      Whats the difficulty, eh?
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/16/jeffrey-epstein-cause-of-death-coroner-report
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:32am
      - atomic drop
        
        I’m sure the Chief New York medical examiner is beholden to someone for his position…
        
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        November 18, 2019 2:09pm
      - stephieboy
        
        atomic drop , beholden to whom?
        
        Qanon deep state?
        
        https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/how-qanon-conspiracy-is-moving-closer-to-political-mainstream-73267269798
        
        LOL
        
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        November 18, 2019 2:40pm
      - chaos
        
        Actually atomic, one of the people saying that the medical examiner got it wrong is the former medical examiner, who has far more experience than the current.
        
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        November 18, 2019 4:35pm
- Steve James
  
  Sorry Maggie but “rape?” really?
  So groups of young ‘hotties’ volunteer of their own free will to go on luxury trips to billionairesville. They have sex (their choice). They get pampered, paid and dropped back home.
  They come again and maybe bring that hot friend they have been boasting to since their last visit. They have a similar great time.
  A few years later, they are somewhat older and have been replaced by another generation of young hotties who are having the time of their lives.
  Now comes the bitching and wining followed by the inevitable money grab playing the victim card.
  There are real rape victims out there and every time one of these leeches mouths off fewer genuine rape victims are believed.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:36am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Many of these ‘young hotties’, as you put it, were under 16 years old. Epstein was in his 50s.
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:50am
    - Steve James
      
      So what if they are under sixteen (I read it was eighteen). What’s it got to do with you? It’s their body and they can do with it what they want. Butt the hell out.
      As President Obama said: “No-one has the right to tell other people who they can love”
      
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      November 18, 2019 2:38pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No age of consent worries for you, Steve? Setting aside whether these girls positively assented to have sex with Epstein and his fellow pedophiles.
        
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        November 18, 2019 6:31pm
    - toby1845
      
      Sounds like the gaps between David Benson-Pope and some of his former students. Not that I’m suggesting that he ever did anything, of course.
      
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      November 18, 2019 4:50pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    interesting article on economics of sex on quillette, putting aside all issues of social mores (human invented rationalization) and just considering what is happening in terms of traded ‘goods’.
    https://quillette.com/2019/11/14/the-price-of-sex/
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:37am
  - Nickc2
    
    Well stated Steve. Blackmail and a covert payout by the Royals to the underage hooker was probably an intention when Epstein bacame deceased. If she was raped etc as alledged, why didn’t she go to the authorites immediately it happened?
    Now where have I heard that before?
    
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    November 18, 2019 12:32pm
    - Paulus
      
      Why did he not ask her how old she was before having sex with her ?
      Assume she was a professional prostitute from a young age.
      Are any other men involved with her ?
      Like Clinton and many other prominent US acquaintances of Epstein.
      Cannot see the problem (Epstein’s estate or somebody else’s Money) is at the root of this fiasco.
      Andrew made a twerp of himself in being defensive. Useless w…ker.
      
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      November 18, 2019 1:50pm
- Bell-47
  
  I did not have anything to do with Virginia Roberts, I know this because on the day she said we were together I was “getting pizza” lol..what a twat.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:44am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I don’t remember Andrew being shot I the Faulklands war. He may have been but I don’t recall.
    
    One thing is for sure, he shot himself in one foot agreeing to be interviewed and then the other foot for not being able to sweat and doing a pizza run and, now is reloading to have a go at foot number one again with whatever utterance he comes up with like ‘I was dropping the videos back to Blockbuster after the sleepover’!
    
    At least Hillary only had the temerity to claim to being ‘shot at’ in Gaza or wherever the snipers were that day
    
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    November 18, 2019 1:27pm
    - Bell-47
      
      Seems to me those same feet are alternately occupying his mouth..
      
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      November 18, 2019 2:54pm
hullkiwi

This morning listening to Morning Report on my way to work I heard Chris Faafoi interviewed by Kim Hill about the CoL’s proposals for changes to tenancy laws. Many people (including DPF) have rated Faafoi as a Minister. Well listening to the interview I think Faafoi did his stock a lot of damage. Because he is pushing something ideologically driven, rather than based on fact, he sounded absolutely clueless and lacking the IQ to be a minister. Which doesn’t say anything for the rest of them.
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November 18, 2019 8:24am
- alex Masterley
  
  Faafoi was interviewed by Hoskin this morning on ZB. My initial reaction was if he is the best Labour have then we are truely screwed.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:09am
  - alloytoo
    
    Indeed, I found his argument that most landlords shouldn’t be worried about the erosion of their rights because they don’t exercise them very often, very shallow.
    
    I don’t exercise my right to self defence very often, but I sure as hell want to keep it.
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:24am
  - Nickc2
    
    Alex, no need to call for a second opinin on that!
    
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    November 18, 2019 12:34pm
kevn

israel (full of sh*t) folau at it again… A ‘brave’ man going down that path in the wake of the Aussie bushfires.
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November 18, 2019 8:29am
- SGA
  
  It’s a funny old thing – I remember someone (Brian Tamaki, perhaps) claiming that the Chch earthquakes were devine retribution of some kind too.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:28am
- Prince
  
  Can’t help thinking it odd that he is vilified for linking bush fires and a charismatic God, whereas others are worshipped for drawing a link between bush fires and the new charismatic religion, Climate Change.
  Same devotion, different pagan symbols.
  Plus ca change plus la meme chose.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:58am
- barnacle bill
  
  It is another case of the Spaghetti being spread to thin up in the brain box for Falou.
  He is proving himself to be a complete idiot.
  
  Even his own supporters must wonder about his mental stability.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:50am
Happychappy

It usually takes more than one term for a New Government to show their arrogance and disregard for Towns and Cities and people in our Country but this Coalition have shown it in bucket loads in their second year. You have Phil Twyford and Julie Anne Genter with their blackmail of the Wellington Council with the help of the then Mayor Justin Lester, Winston Peter’s with Utu on Anne Tolley with Paula Bennett over his Pension details leek in which he has now to withdraw with lawyer saying that it appears now they are not responsible for the leaks, Jacinda with Damien O’conner being invited to the Greymouth to listen and speak to West Coasted that think the Government is shafting in policies they are making that are not in the best interest of Coast business but never turned up to hear what problems they are creating. There are more stories of arrogance and you oy have to listen to Shane Jones to know that this Government is concerned about themselves not the Country or it’s people as Jacinda needs the attention to keep Labour in power.
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November 18, 2019 8:30am
RW Capitalist

I see they are attacking NZDF again re deaths of 7 children. Blown up by ordnance they took home from a firing range in Afghanistan.
Q: Do we know, in a country awash with ordnance of all kinds, that they got it from this firing range? or do we just have the parents word for it? Afterall, at the risk of sounding a bit sick, they weren’t there and the ones that were……are dead.
Q: Since this is a range used by both Russian and US forces, how do they know it was ours?
These “journalists” need to be careful, lest they break something jumping to conclusions.
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November 18, 2019 8:31am
- Lance
  
  I suspect NZ is the only place limp enough to give this ‘story’ any air. Unlike Russia and the US that would tell the reporter to stick their scribblings where the sun doesn’t shine.
  So will this open the floodgates for wicked old NZ being the cause of half the worlds problems?
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:40am
- curry4me
  
  Look on the bright side though. Some of these ‘journalists’ might be able to take a one year coding course for free, courtesy of Saint Jacinda. Thus they’lll have good job prospects when they finally get the DCM.
  
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  November 18, 2019 12:18pm
sooty

Gareth Hughes is retiring at 38 after qualifing for his pension!
His wife has been spending a year traveling with the kids on his travel points!
So that’s why he spends so much time in a plane!
With all these conferances he attends world wide, has anyone checked to see if he was there and not just registered and picked up the info pack.
He may have done a Hone Harawia and gone to visit the family, for all we know.
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November 18, 2019 8:34am
- TripeWryter
  
  I always objected to the fact that we paid him a Parliamentary back-bencher’s salary and all he could bleat about was 55 (or was it 35, 65, 75, …) bloody dolphins off the Taranaki coast.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:30am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes, he does seem rather obsessive about Maui dolphins..
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:05am
- alwyn
  
  I don’t think that Hughes has been of much use as an MP.
  He has however been a great deal more accurate in his statements than you are. I have never seen quite so many wrong claims in such a short space as you have managed. Every sentence is wrong.
  Their is no Parliamentary pension he gets. It was abolished for new members nearly 30 years ago.
  His wife has not been travelling. He is proposing to spend a year doing this after he retires as an MP next year.
  He doesn’t attend lots of overseas conferences on our dime. That is a claim that can be made about James Shaw but not about Hughes.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:31am
  - Tall Man
    
    Although he has managed to rack up $43,000 worth of travel expenses in a year!
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:30am
    - sooty
      
      Got to build up them airpoints!
      
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      November 18, 2019 1:49pm
      - sooty
        
        alwyn. So are you saying that Gareth Hughes gets no pension from parliament?
        Don’t the members pay into some scheme other than tilthing 10% to the green party?
        What about the perks of free air travel etc?
        Because he was not a PM or minister, I don’t think he gets a crown limo and such?
        Does his police minder finish as he goes out the door?
        I saw somewhere that Angry was secrity fencing all the properties. Have they done his? Will he have to pay a large percentage back?
        The way I read the stuff story was she and the kids are there now!
        How do you know so much, are you a green member?
        
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        November 18, 2019 6:33pm
- Colville
  
  For someone so high laced in the list to quit a gold plated job its a good sign that he expects the Greens to be outside the tent next term.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:32am
  - plc
    
    What does this do to the gender balance of the Green list?
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:22am
    - Paulus
      
      Greens will be all female now.
      Shaw is a covert woman anyway.
      
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      November 18, 2019 1:53pm
- srylands
  
  For at least 20 years, MPs have been provided with this guidance:
  
  “Members should use any Airpoints earned from their taxpayer-funded parliamentary travel to offset future parliamentary travel costs.”
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/media/4351/members-guide-20-sept.pdf
  
  However, reportedly compliance with this rule is zero. Of course, they don’t talk about it much. 🙂 MPs can accrue spectacular airpoints because they fly a lot, but more importantly most of their flights are the “full fare fully flexible” type, which attract premium points.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:51am
- Tricati
  
  I read the article on him over the weekend and his greatest achievement was to shut down the Oil & Gas industry. Why wasn’t he asked what he proposed in lieu in the way of jobs and government income.
  I still find it unbelievable that a 40,000 ‘on-line’ Greenpeace partition (Less than 1% of the population) can shut down a major industry, and pricks like Garth Hughes think its great – We really are screwed as a country.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:06am
  - sooty
    
    What happens to any airpoints when a member loses an election or resigns?
    
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    November 18, 2019 6:43pm
    - srylands
      
      They keep them.
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:30pm
RW Capitalist

Would like to post this again, in case you missed it on Sunday, PLEASE.
Here millennials, something for your edification and perhaps education.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/117392407/damien-grant-quit-whinging-millennials-boomers-built-your-houses-and-endured-actual-nuclear-war
We didn’t light the fire….
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November 18, 2019 8:40am
hullkiwi

On Friday we were discussing Twitford’s, JAG’s and Patrick Reynold’s “Fishy Meal” in Wellington. Well also on Friday was an article on Stuff which raises questions about the influence of JAG and Reynolds regarding NZTA transport policy in Auckland. Stuff reported that coming to the Nofth Western motorway soon will be “pop-up” bus ways using the hard shoulder of the motorway.

This because LRT to Auckland’s North -West is a “long way off” (let’s hope it is in the realms of the never never). However, in reality what it highlights is the (pi*s) poor understanding of Auckland’s transport needs are by Reynolds, JAG NZTA and AT, if public money is wasted on these sham exercises.
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November 18, 2019 8:48am
krazykiwi

Kudos to the French Government, however this is probably too little, too late, and the retaliation will be bloodthirsty. Woke multi-culturists and elite globalists have invited the impending tragedies on France.

The French government has shut down mosques, schools, and associations

The French government has shut down mosques, schools, and associations linked to the spread of Islamist ideology in fifteen neighbourhoods across the country.
French Secretary of State for the Interior Laurent Nuñez announced the closure of 130 drinking establishments, 12 places of worship, three schools, and nine associations linked to radical Islamism on Friday, Le Parisien reports.

“We fight against political Islamism that suggests that the law of God is superior to that of the Republic,” he told French media. He added that in his view political Islamism should not be conflated with the religion of Islam more generally.

Have not seen this widely reported in the media. I guess it doesn’t fit the liberal narrative.
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November 18, 2019 8:49am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  130 drinking establishments?
  I didn’t know that Islamists had drinking establishments.
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:12am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Hookah cafes I would suggest.
    
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    November 18, 2019 4:00pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hot chocolate
      
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      November 18, 2019 6:33pm
- stephieboy
  
  Being Breitbart I would take the report with due caution >
  
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  November 18, 2019 12:02pm
chaos

What an idiot. At least two little shits boy and girl were arrested for starting fires.

* Homophobic rugby star Israel Folau has blamed Australia’s lethal bushfires on gay marriage and abortion.

The former Wallaby – dropped over previous comments against the LGBTQ community – told churchgoers in Sydney on Sunday it was not a coincidence New South Wales was on fire after Australia legalised same-sex marriage in 2017.

“I’ve been looking around at the events that’s been happening in Australia this past couple of weeks with all the natural disasters, the bushfires, the droughts and all these things that are currently happening,” Folau said, 7 News reported.

“I’m doing this out of love for people to be able to hear this message and receive it with open hearts… I am speaking to Australia – they have changed this law and changed the ordinance.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/11/israel-folau-says-gay-marriage-and-abortion-to-blame-for-bushfires.html
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November 18, 2019 8:59am
- Yvette
  
  Chaos, indeed
  
  There may be a similar natural fault in thinking behind Israel Folau blaming Australia’s lethal bushfires on gay marriage and abortion, as there was in Brian Tamaki’s statements regarding earthquakes and homosexual behaviour.
  In the latter, movement of tectonic plates over eons of time – hundreds to thousands of years – determine the epicentre and that process meanwhile has to co-ordinate with above ground naughtiness.
  
  Likewise, with Folau thinking, the random growth of trees over sometimes decades, the amount of pruning slash (depending on preveiling Green attitudes even) and then the ignition: by natural lightning or human means – accident, power lines, farm machinery to deliberate lighting – all coincide, chronologically and location wise, to target either gays and people who mishandle their contraception?
  
  If God is involved in this way, why would He bugger around with such scatter-gun targeting, with such a wide margin of careless error, and disguising his authorship so much that wrongdoers, or those standing too close to them, have no bloody idea what is happening?
  
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  November 18, 2019 9:31am
- rangitoto
  
  The Victorians must have been especially naughty back in 1939 to be smitten with the Black Friday fires.
  
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  November 18, 2019 11:35am
  - stephieboy
    
    And there is Holy Roller Brian Tamaki and the Christchurch earthquakes !
    
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    November 18, 2019 12:03pm
- Michael
  
  Folau’s statements on this are rubbish
  
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  November 18, 2019 3:19pm
chaos

Interesting speech yesterday from AG Barr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NdbANrjFWE
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November 18, 2019 9:07am
backster

Has anyone else noticed the strong resemblance between Adam Shiff and Phil Twitford not only physically but also in his speech, mannerisms, and veracity.
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November 18, 2019 9:17am
- Ruawai
  
  More Lord Percy and Captain Darling from Black Adder.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:52am
Morrissey

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
17 civilians injured or killed by NZ troops in Afganistan

New Zealand has been urged to clean up its mess in Afghanistan and compensate the families of seven children killed by explosives left behind.

The deaths of seven children, among 17 civilians injured or killed in incidents connected to firing ranges used by New Zealand troops in Afghanistan, were revealed by a Stuff Circuit investigation, Life + Limb, on Sunday,

The New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) has distanced itself from the deaths, and the Defence Minister has said the claims linking the ranges to victims “have not been confirmed”. …..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117481443/new-zealand-urged-to-clear-ordnance-from-afghanistan-and-compensate-families-of-seven-children-killed

https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/10/review-of-he-toki-huna-new-zealand-in.html

https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/search?q=why+the+f***+are+we+in+afghanistan%3F
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November 18, 2019 9:20am
- Steve James
  
  If people really don’t like living in Afganistan they can simply walk accross the border in any direction.
  But they stay.
  Remove all foreign troops and let them have at it.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:53am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Precedent set, NZ a bunch of soft touches. Perhaps they would settle for resettlement?
  
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  November 18, 2019 12:36pm
  - cmm
    
    Send the Hug Team.
    
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    November 18, 2019 1:30pm
- cmm
  
  “Firing range used by NZ”
  
  This was a coalition firing range, so used by everyone. NZ probably fired less than 0.1% of the ordinance deployed on the range and – most likely – almost exclusively rounds which are inert after firing (rifle rounds, machine gun rounds). It would only be mortars, grenades and such which cause damage afterwards and I would bet NZ fired very few of those.
  
  “Green Party MP and defence spokeswoman Golriz Ghahraman said it was “heartbreaking” to learn New Zealand had caused such devastation in an already suffering community.”
  
  No Golly, there is no evidence to support NZ caused any of suffering.
  
  Show us some shrapnel that caused a casualty and prove it was fired by NZ troops before wagging a finger.
  
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  November 18, 2019 1:29pm
  - sooty
    
    Not as though it was last week the army left!
    It was 2013 after all!
    
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    November 18, 2019 1:55pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Apparently Cinders has now instructed the army to go over there and clean up ‘their’ rubbish.
    Christ on a bike, is there no end to this woman’s stupidity?
    
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    November 18, 2019 5:02pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Hopefully the army will tell her to get lost.
      
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      November 18, 2019 5:22pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      No. Regrettably. No doubt she’ll order tree planting as a carbon off-sett for each bullet. And anyway, it was a shithole to start with, we’ve probably doubled the capital value of the place by getting rid of their beheading fetishist neighbours.
      
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      November 18, 2019 7:05pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And who will she blame if one/some NZers get hurt?
      
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      November 18, 2019 8:01pm
    - Piniwi
      
      No Captain Mainwaring @ 5.02 pm as the bigger news today is the PTPM is about to have a wisdom tooth removed to help dumb her down further. Lol
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:59pm
- rangitoto
  
  Has this been dug up because Hagar the horrid’s smear attempt against the NZ army crashed and burned?
  
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  November 18, 2019 2:52pm
- Rich Prick
  
  It’s called war, end of. I guess we could send the bill to ISIS, but I hear they are low on cash and leaders.
  
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  November 18, 2019 7:00pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Or bill the Taliban. the advantage these is that they are in Afghanistan and have leaders and plenty of cash.
    
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    November 18, 2019 7:11pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Let me guess, this is Cindy’s Karbul Call? That UN thingie must be worth it.
  
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  November 18, 2019 7:31pm
  - cmm
    
    I hear she also refuses interviews on Afghan Radio until something interesting happens.
    
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    November 18, 2019 8:31pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      I was going to say something awful like [deleted – mod] probably wouldn’t get Cindy off the couch these days, but I won’t. Our dear leader isn’t so simple. She’s really simple.
      
      [Mod – some things are better left unsaid. That was one.]
      
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      November 18, 2019 10:21pm
Kiwi Investor

The Mt Albert cull of 345 exotic trees is shaping up to be another incident poorly managed by our PM and Labour. This time one in her own backyard.
The locals are not impressed with the communications from the PM in effect saying she has been too busy fixing mental health and poverty to visit them. Nor is the news that Jacinda does support what is happening as the removal of exotics and planting of natives will lead to the Auckland mountains gaining world heritage status from the UN. The plan is to roll out over all the Auckland Mountains e.g. Mt Eden, One Tree Hill. Someone is making lots of money.
The locals don’t like the approach, which will result in significant change in the landscape over the next 5-10 years, a barren waste land, disrupt naïve birds, and increase the potential for land slips on a very steep mountain.
What a web that has been weaved, and Labour is losing another group of voters due to their emptiness, lack of action and focus, and the lack of transparency shines brightly.
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November 18, 2019 9:21am
- Ruawai
  
  At least we will be popular in the eyes of the UN Gods.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:48am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    That’s the main thing, isn’t it?
    
    //
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:11am
- MCos
  
  It’s an Auckland Council operation
  Same thing happened on Mt Mangere a few months ago when the exotics were cut down and removed by helicopters making a fearful racket for a couple of weeks.
  The effect was a thinning out of the trees, but there are still a umber up there.
  
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  November 18, 2019 1:07pm
  - Kiwi Investor
    
    Not sure that is right. It is being driven by Tupuna Maunga Authority. And yes, they have plans for 14 mountains in Auckland. It is more a cultural exercise, rather than environmental, ridding the mountains of colonial influences, including the removal of plaques etc. Thus they justify the slash and remove approach to knocking down the exotics.
    
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    November 18, 2019 1:46pm
  - sooty
    
    Just think how much cheeper just to chuck them on a bonfire with a couple of tyres to keep them burning!
    
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    November 18, 2019 1:57pm
Maggie Pie

My partner just walked in, told the dog how cute she is and how much he loves her.
Held her face in his hands, stared into her eyes, and gave her forehead kisses.
Then he headed off to work.
I’m sitting right next to the dog.
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November 18, 2019 9:27am
- chaos
  
  smart man, knows who runs the house
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:33am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Does the dog have a “mole”?
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:44am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I’d have noticed if she did 😀
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:57am
    - sooty
      
      In future don’t sit on the floor!
      
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      November 18, 2019 3:58pm
- cmm
  
  But the dog didn’t eat the last Krispy Kreme!
  
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  November 18, 2019 1:32pm
Hugh Pavletich

CHINA / HONG KONG … Interest Co NZ this morning …

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/102610/giant-saudi-ipo-launched-trade-war-phase-one-deal-limps-ahead-us-gdp-growth-evaporates

… extract …

… In China, new data out for October shows that house price growth is now falling away in most Chinese cities. Officially, they are “stabilising” but in many more cities we are noticing small declines, and that includes for Beijing.

In Hong Kong, official data shows a sharp turn in their economy, and into recession. For all of 2019 they expect their economy to shrink -1.1%, but for the September quarter it shrank at a rate of more than -3% pa. New street violence has flared again overnight, and the Government is threatening its employees who support the protests, and indication of how widespread the support is for the demonstrators, who can still bring tens of thousands on to the streets. … view & read more via hyperlink above …

http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/zxfb/201911/t20191115_1709560.html
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November 18, 2019 9:32am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  U.S. Mortgage Rates Rise …
  
  US long-term mortgage rates rise; 30-year at 3.75% … AP
  
  https://apnews.com/1c4bbc2472244caba337cc1cbc9b674d
  
  U.S Mortgage Rates Rise as Sentiment towards the Economy Improves … Yahoo Finance
  
  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-mortgage-rates-rise-sentiment-010453160.html
  
  Rising Mortgage Rates Can Sink the U.S. Housing Market … CCN
  
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  November 18, 2019 11:22am
Odakyu-sen

The macronization of the English used in the New Zealand Herald is strange to me. The driving notion seems to be that “we love and honor Te Reo so much that we must eradicate all English loan words derived from Maori, and replace them with Te Reo directly.” (In much the same way that the new owners of the summit of Mt. Eden seek to root out the established non-native trees (symbolizing foreign impurity and colonialism?) and replace them with native ones.)

I assume that the Herald’s fawning adoration of the “pure native word” will only be extended to Te Reo. To be consistent, I demand that the New Zealand Herald stop using English loan words like Tokyo and Yokohama, and instead use the Japanese native texts of 東京 and 横浜. If you want to pepper your English with words from another language (as they would appear in that language) the why limit yourself to Te Reo? How about showing the same respect for other foreign languages?
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November 18, 2019 9:42am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Roma, Firenze, Napoli, Venezia, …..
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:46am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    rightoverlabour,
    
    Exactamundo!
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:55am
  - Jack5
    
    Odaku-sen and Rightoverlabour are correct. Here are a few more:
    
    España, Россия, Москва, Warszawa, Україна, नई दिल्ली, 北京.
    
    The most rational way for a country like New Zealand to have two languages is to speak and write in one or in the other, or in both serially – that is not at once, not at the same time. It is definitely not to Pidgin-ise one, as the woke folk are trying to do with New Zealand English.
    
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    November 18, 2019 11:24am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Jack5,
      
      No joke!
      English in New Zealand is broke, thanks to the woke folk!
      
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      November 18, 2019 12:48pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Puketifianau Pakeha. Polynsians frequently drop macrons as they are foreign and every native speaker knows the customary pronunciation.
  
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  November 18, 2019 12:11pm
- Straight arrow
  
  Australia’s State broadcaster ABC has introduced “Acknowledgement of Country” at end of news broadcasts.
  
  “And that’s the latest from the Canberra newsroom, proudly broadcasting from the land of the Ngunnawal people. As part of our ongoing commitment to Indigenous recognition, the ABC is partnering with the United Ngunnawal Elders Council and pays respect to them — the first people of this land. I’m Dan Bourchier, Yarra, Goodnight.”
  
  So no recognition of anybody else?
  
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  November 18, 2019 12:29pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Let me quess. Australia’s State broadcaster ABC’s new leaders are woke, are feminists, are soyboys, or marxists, or a combination of all of the above.
    
    Virtue signalling par excellence! (Who are the trying to impress?)
    
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    November 18, 2019 2:00pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “So no recognition of anybody else?”
    
    Only if they were higher up the intersectional ranking table than “the indigenous people.”
    
    //
    
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    November 18, 2019 2:11pm
- MCos
  
  Bangkok’s real name is: Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit
  
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  November 18, 2019 2:24pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Official communications in Thailand must be a pain in the arse.
    
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    November 18, 2019 4:40pm
    - alwyn
      
      No, no. It isn’t really as bad as you think. He has made a spelling mistake and put in one extra “a” into the name
      It is much easier to handle if you remove the error.
      I’d tell you which one it is but I can’t get the same number each time when I count along the letters to where the extra one is.
      
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      November 18, 2019 5:51pm
cas

If Winston got knighted and his first marriage is not legally finished ( if I read his evidence in the trial correctly) does that mean his ex wife will get the Ladyhood?
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November 18, 2019 10:11am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  That being the case, he’ll have to get a cab down to the benefit office next time because Trotman won’t be driving him.
  
  Actually that is something that did puzzle me about the recent benefit swindle, and that was, why did Winston Raymond Peters make his own way to the benefit office above East Tamaki?
  WRP well known for his like for the baubles of office, although he does say otherwise, when we also know his penchant for crown Beemers?
  
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  November 18, 2019 1:47pm
  - sooty
    
    Some one said he went past severn closer offices.
    So would he have gone down to Manukau?
    
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    November 18, 2019 3:56pm
    - barnacle bill
      
      severn, how do you link that to Manukau ?
      
      Severn
      [ˈsevərn]
      
      DEFINITION
      a river of southwestern Britain. Rising in central Wales, it flows northeast and then south in a broad curve for about 180 miles (290 km) to its mouth on the Bristol Channel
      
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      November 18, 2019 9:49pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    I understand WP was between parliamentary positions when the poor penniless sweetie applied for his superannuation.
    I note also that Jan was doing the driving which makes me wonder if Winston has a licence, or is he ever under the legal limit?
    
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    November 18, 2019 10:38pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  8. Separation
  In the event that a knight and his wife separate, the wife may continue to use the courtesy title of “Lady” so long as she uses her former husband’s surname. However, she may choose not to use the courtesy title. In the event that the wife reverts to her maiden name or another surname, it would be incorrect to use the courtesy title.
  
  https://dpmc.govt.nz/our-programmes/new-zealand-royal-honours/honours-lists-and-recipients/information-honours-recipients/titles-styles-knights-dames
  
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  November 18, 2019 2:12pm
  - sooty
    
    What happens after using the name, they divoice. Does the title go to the new wife?
    
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    November 18, 2019 3:52pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      9. Divorce and remarriage
      If a knight divorces and remarries, the current and former wife (or wives) who retain their current and former husband’s surname are entitled to use the courtesy title of “Lady”. There may be, therefore, several “Lady Smiths”.
      
      In those situations where there is more than one former wife living and entitled to use the courtesy title, a forename may be used; e.g.
      
      Mary, Lady Smith.
      When a man is made a knight a former wife, who has retained his surname, may not adopt the courtesy title of “Lady”. She continues to be styled as she was at the time of her divorce and before her husband was knighted; e.g. “Mrs”.
      
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      November 18, 2019 8:12pm
chaos

Why is it labour can’t really get anything but people with no experience. Would you like fries with your fish?

* A former assistant to Prince William has been selected as the National Party candidate for the safe seat of Ōtaki.

Tim Costley’s selection comes after the current Ōtaki MP, former Minister of Primary Industries Nathan Guy, announced he was stepping down from politics earlier this year.

Costley, a Wing Commander overseeing operational airworthiness at Ohakea, joined the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) as a pilot in 2001.

He served as an equerry to Prince William during the Duke of Cambridge’s 2014 new Zealand visit, assisting him with gifts and accompanying him around Wellington’s Civic Square.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12286038
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November 18, 2019 10:52am
mikenmildagain

Pelosi said Trump is welcome to appear or answer questions in writing, if he chooses.
“If he has information that is exculpatory, that means ex, taking away, culpable, blame, then we look forward to seeing it,” she said in an interview that aired Sunday on CBS’s Face the Nation.

Sick burn.
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November 18, 2019 11:31am
- barnacle bill
  
  I read in an American publication which described Trump as an teenage boy, locked up in an old mans body.
  
  Seems like an accurate description.
  
  3 16
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  November 18, 2019 11:56am
  - IC5000
    
    Psychologically he never really moved on from military academy. If he worked for someone else other than the family business he may be turned out to be a much better human being.
    
    3 6
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    November 18, 2019 4:52pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The DEMS should be indicted for sedition. What the they done but attempt to subvert the duly elected President throughout his term to date.
  Another soft coup attempt is underway.
  
  17 3
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  November 18, 2019 12:16pm
curry4me

The Brexit party vote appears to be collapsing. The Tories are surging, and Labour are a long way behind them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIjKvMqOaAM
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November 18, 2019 11:57am
- cmm
  
  I would not say Brexit Party support has collapsed. There has been a huge cup-of-tea deal between Tory and Brexit to prevent them splitting the vote. This would have cut down votes for Brexit.
  
  10 0
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  November 18, 2019 1:19pm
  - curry4me
    
    Yeah, that could be one way of looking at it. I guess we will have to wait for some more polls. Personally, I hope they need Brexit Party MPs to govern. Tories can’t be trusted on their own.
    
    4 1
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    November 18, 2019 6:45pm
chaos

Good to see this is being taken serious.

* One in five University of Otago medical students have had their qualifications withheld after an investigation into claims they faked their compulsory three-month training to go on overseas holidays.

The university says the “problem as much wider than first thought” and will now launch a wide-ranging inquiry after it found 53 final-year medical students in 2019 have failed – to a lesser or greater degree – to meet acceptable attendance requirements.

The scam, which involved students falsifying their placement documents, was exposed by Stuff in September. *

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/117498784/otago-uni-finds-1-in-5-final-year-med-students-faked-work-placement-records
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November 18, 2019 12:15pm
- cmm
  
  Committing fraud is not a good way to kick off a medical career.
  
  17 0
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  November 18, 2019 1:18pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I would interested to see if there were any patterns. For example:
  – The fakers tended to be from established “respectable” Kiwi families
  – The fakers tended to be from non-English-speaking countries where corruption is part of the culture
  – There was no discernable pattern to the cheating
  
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  November 18, 2019 1:57pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Actions have consequences
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403532/more-than-50-medical-students-to-be-denied-graduation-after-overseas-placement-rort
  
  Good to see Otago Uni taking this action to protect the good name of its honest medical graduates.
  
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  November 18, 2019 2:41pm
secondcumming

As was alluded to earlier in the year…..
*WATCH. THIS. SPACE.* 😎

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12286013
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November 18, 2019 12:34pm
jonnycomelately

The government claims their ban on rental bidding in a reset of rental laws will also see the end of no cause evictions. I rather think it will cause no end of evictions as landlords decide it is all too much.
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November 18, 2019 2:29pm
- chaos
  
  I keep thinking that labour are taking our rental market down the same the path the uk one is in, god helps us if that happen
  
  5 1
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  November 18, 2019 4:31pm
Jack5

Michael Reddell puts his powerful gaze on the immigration article by Liam Dann in the Hooerald.

https://croakingcassandra.com/2019/11/18/people-from-poorer-countries-will-come-if-we-let-them/#comments
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November 18, 2019 2:45pm
John Warren

After yesterday’s GD I recognise that I’ve been taking rather too much pleasure in firing potshots and insults at stephieboy. I think most around here wouldn’t blame me for that, but unfortunately it does nothing for the quality of the debate, or to discourage stephieboy. Quite the opposite. Stephie is a nasty piece of crap who, among other things, delights in his disruptive ways, and derives great pleasure from winding everybody up and receiving enormous numbers of downticks. He does not want to contribute to the debate. He simply wants attention. The more that he is paid, and the more negative it is, the more he feels like he’s achieving some kind of victory. There are only two ways of dealing with such a pervert. The first is to moderate him out of existence. However this has the potential to be the top of a slippery slope, one which this blog should never go down (and I don’t suggest for a moment that the mods would entertain it).

The second and far more effective way is simply to ignore him. We should neither respond nor downtick. Ever. The world’s Stephieboys shrivel and die from lack of attention. As soon as he perceives he isn’t provoking the reactions he seeks, he’ll get bored and go find new victims to persecute. Of course he’s welcome to show up with sensible arguments and points of view, but that is not Stephie’s modus operandi. Don’t hold your breath.

In the meantime I apologise to DPF, the mods, and everybody else for lowering the tone, even though the number of green ticks suggest I wasn’t entirely going against the grain. But it was unbecoming and I regret it. You will never see me mention, respond to, or even downtick stephieboy ever again.
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November 18, 2019 2:47pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Yup good idea, I’ll try as well.
  
  8 2
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  November 18, 2019 6:50pm
- Tall Man
  
  I advocated a similar approach some time ago but many seem to be triggered by steffy girl so respond which just gets her going again.
  
  6 4
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  November 18, 2019 7:20pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The problem with ignoring stephieboy, etc.. is that gives him free rein to post up lies and smears about other individuals.
  
  That’s what happened yesterday….
  someone put up a very ordinary post.. and stephieboy called him paranoid for no reason … later stephieboy tried to cast doubt on a poster’s Masterate degree.
  
  That’s the technique that was repeatedly used on this blog against me…I was menopausal, I was mad, deranged, an alt-righter, racist, etc.
  
  I’ve never broken any of DPF’s rules, but that’s been no safe-guard against me from being abused and repeatedly harassed on this blog.
  
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  November 18, 2019 8:29pm
  - John Warren
    
    I respectfully disagree Maggie – the more he’s ignored the less inclined he’ll be to post. He thrives on the reaction – no reaction, no interest for him.
    
    I’m entirely with Tall Man. I won’t let stephieboy trigger me anymore and I won’t respond to him in any way. I advocate you do the same (at least up to the point where he does something legally defamatory), and keep cool. Don’t even give him the satisfaction of a downtick. Downticks are a drug to him.
    
    4 7
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    November 18, 2019 8:41pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      So I should just suck up the filth, the lies and the abuse that has been published on this blog.
      
      Yep, I’ll go along with that.
      
      6 1
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      November 18, 2019 9:29pm
      - John Warren
        
        Pretty much, Maggie. If you feed the troll by reacting it just eggs him on. In this online environment, in the absence of the mods taking a stronger line against him, your greatest weapon is to ignore him, stone cold. Don’t let the fucker win by provoking a response from you. Can’t you see? That’s what he lives for.
        
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        November 18, 2019 10:47pm
  - chaos
    
    And the joke in moderation is that he was told to stop it or they would talk to David about a ban. This is despite the constantly calling people racists, alt right, attacking people. Considering that posts have to be approved by a mod none of these should be making it through moderation so the moderators are just as much a part of the problem for approving the posts
    
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    November 18, 2019 9:15pm
    - Michael
      
      yep you got that in one Chaos.
      
      2 0
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      November 18, 2019 10:44pm
  - Michael
    
    I’m sorry Maggy but it’s all in the history ignored by the mods or given a wet bus ticket.
    There is no excuse.
    
    What would he (stephie) get in the pub for repeatedly behaving in that lewd denigrating way.
    
    In all honesty I’m starting to suspect someone gets a kick out of it.
    Especially as I was threatened as I was for pointing out the deliberate behaviour.
    
    2 0
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    November 18, 2019 10:43pm
- Michael
  
  John
  I hear what you are saying.
  But NO.
  
  DPF has all the info.
  I jusr read back on what I could after one of Maggies posts asking him to stop.
  
  It’s way past that.
  Just go and read how and what he posts to belittle and traumatise her.
  
  That’s why I offered to be a witness for her.
  I am sure in the cold light of day but a third party DPF would be found derilict in his duty as owner.
  
  Which is a laugh in one qway even if sad, that the reason he has instituted the mods is to protect his Brand.
  
  Just go back and read steffie, what is said and the way it is said.
  
  I do understand what you are saying though and in other times I might agree.
  
  But this has gone on for far too long.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:38pm
  - John Warren
    
    I’ll concede on the Maggie front, Michael. I obviously haven’t been fully aware of the extent of stephie’s ugliness towards her. In this case the mods really should do something more than what they have done to date, but I also think it’s even more reason for the rest of us to completely ignore him.
    
    Apologies Maggie, if you happen to read this.
    
    2 0
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    November 19, 2019 9:40am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I was angry last night.
      The abuse against me has gone on for about 5 years.
      In that time one poster implied I had been suffering from sexual jealousy after being rejected by a prominent NZ Climate scientist.
      He also implied that “people like me” had caused that chap’s breakdown.
      I was also subjected to about 1 year’s non-stop abuse that I was mad, psychotic , deranged after I had written here of my mother’s suicide.
      All of this abuse followed my posts on climate change topics.
      He also posted that his intent was to ruin my reputation.
      
      Latterly stephieboy joined the fray and stated that I was a racist, and I had links to the alt-right, and posted links to Nazi regalia after one of my posts and has made nasty personal enquiries about my underwear.
      
      Of course I have requested from him, DPF and moderators that such abuse and harassment cease.
      It hasn’t, I suspect it wont.
      
      So I have rearranged my life that no-one can associate my name with any of the groups I advise on native forest regeneration and I have resigned from a number of organisations.
      
      I’m not interested in taking action against anyone for the abuse and harassment I’ve received here… I’ve sucked it up.
      
      It’s you folks that play & post on this platform that permits this unwarranted bullying and abuse that have to suck it up too, I gather.
      
      1 0
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      November 19, 2019 10:00am
      - Michael
        
        Not me.
        
        I think we should all not do drive by shootings as Mikemild and Stephie does.
        also directly attacking someone or their family is plain wrong.
        
        But I stand by what I wrote about Stephies deliberate sexual inuendo stalking of Maggie.
        and the ignoring of it by DPF and his mods.
        
        Saying you’re deleting stuff because it is so bad is dereliction of duty.
        If it is bad enough to delete then it is bad enough to ping!
        
        It has been too specific and gone on for far too long to be a mistake.
        
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        November 19, 2019 2:57pm
Jack5

Anyone should be able to choose their race as well as their identity, say Britain’s Left-wing university leaders.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7693927/Anyone-allowed-identify-black-according-Left-wing-university-leaders.html
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November 18, 2019 2:56pm
- chaos
  
  Sweet, I hope this is brought in here, I’m thinking I’ll go for being a Martian.
  
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  November 18, 2019 6:21pm
Happychappy

‘Yes I am calling you a psycho’-Winston Peter’s lashes out at Journalists after grilling over NZ First linked Company.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/yes-am-calling-you-psycho-winston-peters-lashes-journalists-after-grilling-over-nz-first-linked-company
Peters likes to taunt others when things go wrong and you only have to.look at what was said when Jamie Lee Ross accused Simon Bridges over the Chinese donations
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November 18, 2019 3:45pm
- sooty
  
  Will this prove to be his unravelling by upsetting the media?
  Who were the media at that interview?
  Simon Wilson is already getting his own back on Whiney, after been threatened with legal action by writing the truth about Whineys courtcase!
  
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  November 18, 2019 6:47pm
  - John Warren
    
    Exactly. When will the media turn on him good and proper? He was a bullying, threatening old [deleted – mod] tonight when put on the spot about his dodgy business links.
    
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    November 18, 2019 8:45pm
    - John Warren
      
      Sorry, I’ll refrain in future, but anything milder just doesn’t seem adequate to describe Winston.
      
      1 0
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      November 18, 2019 10:49pm
chaos

If what is happening in the northern hemisphere is anything to go on we could be in for a cold winter.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/11/16/611351/Tehran-Iran-snow-Hamid-Mousavi

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201911161077323809-huge-amount-of-snow-blankets-northern-italy/
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November 18, 2019 6:14pm
Hugh Pavletich

NEW HOUSING: GLOBALLY URBAN EXPANSION IS NORMAL AND ESSENTIAL … TO AVOID PLANNER INDUCED LAND SUPPLY STRANGULATION CAUSING DESTRUCTIVE HOUSING INFLATION AND POVERTY CREATION …

… Are the Aussies learning what the Kiwis have known for years ? …

Aussies still dream of a house with backyard … Leith van Onselen … MacroBusiness Australia

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/11/aussies-still-dream-of-a-house-with-backyard/

… extracts …

… Today, this myth has been comprehensively destroyed by academics from the University of Western Australia:

Around the world, the vast majority of people are flocking to cities not to dwell in their centres but to live in the new suburbs expanding their outer limits. Reflecting this, from 2000 to 2015, the expansion of urbanised land worldwide outpaced urban population growth. The result is unprecedented urban sprawl…

We love our leafy suburbs

The “Australian dream” of owning your own home is often automatically associated with a detached house on a block of land. It’s seen as a mark of having “made it”.

For instance, a study in Perth found that, if they had the money, 79% of people would prefer a separate dwelling and 13% a semi-detached option. Only 7% preferred flats, units or apartments.

Evidently, the suburban dream runs deep in the Australian cultural psyche. Australia is not alone in this. As a result of widespread preference for suburban living, globally we are not in the age of urbanisation but rather the age of suburbanisation.

A recent survey from New Zealand came to an identical result:

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/99890/westpac-commissioned-survey-suggests-many-new-zealanders-still-pine-quarter-acre

Grossly irresponsible urban planning fighting against peoples normal preferences, is both futile and highly destructive.

Local Government New Zealand …

Property owners and developers want more councils to be directed by Government under new planning rules … Marta Steeman … Stuff NZ

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116615782/property-owners-and-developers-want-more-councils-to-be-directed-by-government-under-new-planning-rules

… concluding …

… (Local Government New Zealand says …) … The real obstacles to development were a restrictive planning regime, too much risk on councils regarding building and the inability to open up land for development because of poor infrastructure funding and financing tools. (Note Pavletich / Paulson comment at bottom of comments thread)
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November 18, 2019 8:03pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Jesus, if feel black and blue after scrolling past it all.
  
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  November 18, 2019 10:12pm

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