General Debate 18 February 2020

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AgainstTheFlow

If you are concerned about COVID-19 in China, you should be terrified of COVID-19 in Africa.

China has lots of investments and construction projects all over Africa hence lots of travellers between the two regions.
WHO reports zero cases in Africa, which is incredibly unlikely.

African nations have very weak health systems, with poor surveillance systems. Unlike China’s dictatorship, African nations don’t have the same level of control over people’s movement.
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February 18, 2020 8:01am
- cmm
  
  I agree that it is really hard to believe Africa, India, and a few other places have as few cases as they claim.
  
  Africa is particularly vulnerable to to all sorts of diseases given the HIV-damaged immune systems prevalent in Sub-Saharan Africa.
  
  On the flip side, the HIV meds might actually control COVID19 too, say maybe not that bad.
  
  As always, let’s see.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:33am
  - Raphael
    
    I was chatting to a work colleague who has just come back from visiting family northern India. Apparently they had a very bad outbreak of a different illness last year (she did give the name, can’t recall what it was) that was caused by human/bat contact. Because of that scare they still have some quite strict controls in place which will be helping.
    
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    February 18, 2020 8:39am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Interesting facts, live (or dead) bats were not present or traded at the Wuhan “wet market”; and the nearest significant concentration of bats is around 500 km away.
      
      So how did a virus said to be closely associated with Bats become an epidemic in Wuhan ? Is there another species acting as a “bridge”, or is the virus laboratory that sits within a few hundred metres of the market, implicated. Inadequate bio security on laboratory wastes could be a source.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:11am
      - Batman
        
        It came from the market. Just like how people in Japan and China can buy fresh NZ Paua and Crayfish, people 500km away from Bats can buy them at a market!
        
        This isn’t a conspiracy, it’s nonsense mate.
        
        Perhaps unsurprisingly, I am against eating Bats ???
        
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        February 18, 2020 9:22am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Batman, we have no idea where it came from. As I say, Bats were NOT present in the markets as either live or dead specimens. So if the virus has “hopped” from Bats (and the evidence is that it is very closely related), then one of four things must have happened
        
        1. A person was directly infected by a Bat, and travelled to Wuhan while infectious, possibly via the Market;
        2. There’s an intermediate species that can contract the virus from a bat and harbour it; and that species was present at the market (BTW, Civet cats were thought to have been a carrier for SARS);
        3. The virus was not naturally introduced and escaped from somewhere it was held (by far most likely the laboratory) by inadequate biosecurity on wastes;
        4. Not natural, and engineered virus that escaped either through wastes or by infecting someone associated with the lab.
        
        One confounding factor is that the person currently regarded as “Patient 0” (that is the very first person to be detected with the virus) has zero (none, nil, nada) connection with the market. That isn’t conclusive as he could have a 3rd hand (he has no known second hand) connection to the market, but does reduce the chance that the market is the point where the virus crossed into a human host.
        
        So what is it ? Not direct from a bat at the market, there were none; and not direct from a bat in Wuhan, they’re not local (though faintly plausible). Maybe an intermediate species – possible. Or an inadvertent release. It’s these last two that would be my best guess, but direct from a bat at the market, nope.
        
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        February 18, 2020 11:01am
      - GoVege
        
        How do you know bats were not traded at the markets?
        The Chinese sell all sorts of wierd foodstuffs, some of it from endangered animals.
        They’re hardly likely to have it all on display.
        
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        February 18, 2020 11:47am
      - Ed Snack
        
        GoVege, we can’t know for sure, but multiple reports state that bats were not available at that market.. There’s no nearby source, the nearest reasonable concentration that could be harvested is approx 500 km away it is said.
        
        But you’re right to a degree, there could have been bats for sale and that fact is being obscured or covered up.
        
        Bat Corona viruses though were most definitely being studied at the nearby Virology lab though, there are papers that list what they have stored/worked on.
        
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        February 18, 2020 3:31pm
      - Simon Arnold
        
        For a theory on how the transmission occurred see https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2020/02/china-bioharzard-lab-likely-source-of-coronavirus.html
        
        Suggests the lab had bats, staff had been bitten, but didn’t quarantine themselves for long enough.
        
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        February 18, 2020 6:52pm
  - mark15
    
    I find that (hiv drugs on coronavirus) a very sinister coincidence.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:21am
    - freethinker
      
      Early reports on Virus Spikes said HIV DNA was present so likely that it was a weaponised version of Corona virus that escaped somehow.
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:34am
      - Aunty
        
        There is no DNA in HIV.
        
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        February 18, 2020 11:06am
    - Aunty
      
      You needn’t. They are both RNA based viruses (HIV and Coronavirus) so they share a lot of biology. It’s not surprising that what works on HIV might also have some effect against coronarvirus, particularly if the drug is targeting a viral replication pathway that is common to both viruses. There is nothing sinister about that or coincidental, and nothing to see here.
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:41am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Aunty is correct, as the Corona virus is an RNA retrovirus there should be no surprise that medication designed to impede viral use of reverse transcriptase (to turn itself into a DNA strand that can replicate) would have some effect.
        
        The early pre-print scientific paper that claimed to have detected HIV related proteins in the Corona virus has been withdrawn, and there was wide-spread criticism of its methods and conclusions.
        
        However a new paper from 2 Chinese researchers makes a fairly strong suggestion that the most likely origin is the Wuhan viral laboratory, not as a deliberate release, but as a result of poor security over waste material. They leave open the question of whether the released virus is entirely natural or not.
        
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        February 18, 2020 11:18am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Seems most unlikely, Ed.
        
        “There’s absolutely nothing in the genome sequence of this virus that indicates the virus was engineered,” said Richard Ebright, a professor of chemical biology at Rutgers University. “The possibility this was a deliberately released bioweapon can be firmly excluded.”
        
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        February 18, 2020 12:18pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Ed Snack
        
        Ed you are correct, from the information originally given, including links on KB, claimed to have detected HIV related proteins or injections in the virus base. Or from a layman’s point of view, a human virus injection on a SARS type transport mechanism, rather than the other way around.
        
        According to Wiki, the corona virus base has been around for thousands of years, and dodgy humans have been eating dodgy food for millions of years, so why now?
        
        Late last year, one of the directors of the Wuhan lab was stopped by FBI trying to smuggle serum from the USA to China, along with some Chinese “Students” who turned out to be members of the CCCP.
        
        Where they trying to smuggle in a virus or an antidote for a virus? CCCP disguised as students? Let me think about that.
        
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        February 18, 2020 12:51pm
      - Batman
        
        I know it’s fun but spreading rumour and speculation about is really unhelpful.
        
        Don’t make the Mods have to be like the BFD and start culling misinformation.
        
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        February 18, 2020 12:54pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Batman
        
        The modern scientific method, based on inductive thinking, implores that no possibility be ruled out until it is ruled out.
        
        Given the history of coverups of major events since Adam was a cowboy, including by the Chinese government, and the information which questions both the Wuhan labs actions and contradictory information, I would say it is more than just rumours.
        
        Free speech being what it is, saying something is a rumour or is hate speech, just because it is not your opinion, smacks of of being very one eyed, and a hater of free speech. Especially when evidence exists that suggests of foul play.
        
        When lives are being lost you cannot afford the luxury of being biased and ruling out causes because you don’t like the idea.
        
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        February 18, 2020 2:44pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Mikenmild, I agree that the likelihood that it is an engineered virus that was deliberately released is extremely low, and I don’t take that hypothesis seriously.
        
        It also seems unlikely based on a genetic analysis of the virus that it is engineered, though there are some doubts around this and doubts around what material the various researchers are working with. Unlikely but experts have certainly been wrong before.
        
        What is well known and confirmed is that the Virus lab situated near the “wet market” in Wuhan does store bat corona viruses, and that those viruses have been “studied”. Whether any of those “studies” involved genetic engineering is unknown. Such engineering wouldn’t necessarily be for nefarious purposes, trying to work out why Corona Viruses can be so virulent and so readily cross the species barrier is a very relevant field of study and could involve engineering versions of the virus for study.
        
        It is certainly possible that an inadvertent release of the virus could have come from the laboratory. It is a Level 4 containment facility, theoretically supposed to be able to deal with the most dangerous pathogens in relative safety, but accidents can happen. That lab is the nearest known location for this virus to the apparent epicentre of the outbreak.
        
        Could be natural though, despite the supposed absence of bats and bat tissue some could have been present as could an intermediate host. Or someone could have contacted the virus elsewhere and travelled to Wuhan where they became infectious and it spread.
        
        We may in fact never be quite sure, but medical detective work is pretty good these days, given accurate information of course.
        
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        February 18, 2020 3:43pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Could the virus be highly specific to Chinese?
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:05am
    - SGA
      
      “highly specific to Chinese”. That would strike me as extremely likely. Besides which, China (like India, Europe, and Africa, say) represents a very diverse “genetic pool”.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:15am
      - SGA
        
        “extremely unlikely” – sorry.
        
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        February 18, 2020 11:53am
    - rangitoto
      
      Well others have caught the virus but so far the death rate outside of China seems to be much less. Assuming the stats are accurate which is far from certain.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:48am
      - SGA
        
        Hard to know what to read into that. The medical resources available for the rare coronavirus patient outside of China are likely to be better than the stretched Wuhan system. If it is more likely to kill those who are elderly or with pre-existing conditions, then there is likely to be fewer of them flying from China.
        
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        February 18, 2020 1:00pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Incubation period may be longer than 14 days
  https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3050893/coronavirus-death-toll-rises-1770-china-reports-100-new
  
  If the virus manages to kill the Director of Wuhan Hospital caring for patients, then it’s a worry.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12309350
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:39am
  - Lance
    
    It is not unusual for the fittest people to be the most vulnerable to an infection like this. Their immune systems react too quickly, attacking cells, especially in the lungs, leaving holes where they were killed off and allowing fluid to fill the lungs.
    
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    February 18, 2020 8:53am
    - freethinker
      
      One reason for the Pneumonia deaths in adults is the prevalence of smoking in males and the consequence is a compromise of their longs plus air pollution. Interesting that the reported 70% reduction in pollution in major industrial cities shows Chinese are treating this virus very seriously by self quarantining themselves which gives credibility to reports of much reduced production also corroborated by the plummet in the Baltic dry index. I feel sorry for the Chinese as this is a disaster however caused and the ramifications are global and probably not short term.
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:40am
      - Harriet
        
        I said here at the start that smoking would be amongst the factors for people dying. They’re mostly older Chinese remember, they smoke lots, which may also be why the death rate for Chinese is higher than those outside China.
        
        Here we go again … feminised NZ health boards enabling more armed robberies. While the immigration minister remains wilfully cucked. 😎
        
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        February 18, 2020 1:34pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      This one does seem to mostly attack people with underlying medical issues, or at least so it is said. But the quality of the data we are getting out of China may be misleading.
      
      It is certainly true that excessive immune system response can kill (the 1918 Influenza epidemic certainly did this, disproportionately affecting young fir people – it ran rife through army camps) – often called a “cytokine cascade” and it induces organ failure quite rapidly. That dynamic does seem to be at work in this outbreak as well, but it isn’t said to be the major killing mechanism – at least as far as we know.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:22am
- surfing
  
  It is like measles – here in NZ there were few deaths. Modern healthcare system etc.
  
  But in Samoa, it is a national tragedy.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:12am
  - Jack5
    
    Nine thousand people were killed by the 1918 flu epidemic in New Zealand, and the death toll in (Western Samoa) was estimated at 8500.
    
    The much higher death rate in Samoa was at least partly caused by poor actions, or lack of action, by the colonial administrator (governor) installed by New Zealand after it seized the colony from the Germans in 1914.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:52am
    - Jack5
      
      Given the NZ population of in 1918 was 1.15 million, the 1918 national flu death toll would be the equivalent of more than 39,000 deaths in 2020 New Zealand.
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:17am
      - Aunty
        
        The death rate from the Spanish Flu epidemic and COVID-19 is about the same. Sobering, eh folks?
        If this does indeed become a global pandemic, the world will survive, of that there is no doubt. But who among us may not?
        
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        February 18, 2020 10:51am
  - GoVege
    
    A preventable national tragedy, which is probably why the Samoan PM refuses to hold an enquiry.
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:20am
- pejhay
  
  The other one that I’ve noticed is that there is no reporting (as usual) from North Korea, one of the closest adjacent countries. They might already be wiped out for all we know…
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:52am
Ford Prefect

With the fight against the evils of colonialism, I assume we have to remove all influences the Europeans have had on our society.

Does that include rugby??
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February 18, 2020 8:02am
- MT_Tinman
  
  Of course it does, along with the wheel, agriculture, a written language and penicillin.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:39am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    And Ford Prefects.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:01am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      And all Holden’s?
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:26am
    - Komata
      
      MM@0901
      
      I thought there was only one and that Douglas Adams had him under control…
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, he is right here on Kiwiblog. Shall we ask him if he still considers Earth to be ‘mostly harmless’?
        
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        February 18, 2020 10:11am
    - JibberJabber
      
      But they can keep the Vauxhall Vivas, that`s a fast track back to the stone age.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:55am
      - Ed Snack
        
        I had a 1969 HB Viva 90 for several years. Not that bad for its time, engine was a bit fragile but the body was far more rust resistant than most of its peers.
        
        So leave off on sledging the Viva !
        
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        February 18, 2020 11:25am
- Ruawai
  
  And good health care and education?
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:45am
  - MCos
    
    The healthcare partially cancels out the introduced diseases.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:46am
- cmm
  
  Welfare?
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:32am
- freethinker
  
  Ford prefect – And better healthcare!
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:41am
- Lance
  
  And……………………………………………..
  
  KFC !!!!!!!
  
  Oh the humanity
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:44am
  - Harriet
    
    In other words Maori want to turn NZ into the Solomon islands. 😎
    
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    February 18, 2020 1:46pm
Raphael

Headline in the Herald

Police name Tauranga shootout victim as Anthony John Fane

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309321

I am flabbergasted that the Herald would call this cretin a victim. It appears he murdered his partner, he was involved in the murder of two other men, and then tried to kill some cops before they managed to shoot back and kill him.
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February 18, 2020 8:02am
- mark15
  
  He’s a victim of colonisation.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:18am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  The herald and cretin in the same sentence, like a hand in a glove
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:25am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Understandable, but dictionary.com does have the following explanation:
  
  a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:27am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    “a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.”
    
    I don’t think that definition stretches at all to the perpetrator. It suggests that a ‘victim’ must lack agency. The perpetrator doesn’t.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:22am
    - Harriet
      
      Policing and the judiciary are a white supremacy superstructure. Coloureds and whatnot who support that are traitors to the law-abiding. 😎
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:52pm
- surfing
  
  Is this guy an Australian deportee?
  
  I wonder what his background is like. No doubt, abusive family etc etc. . .
  
  I bet that meth is his primary drug of choice too. That is what powered antony dixon. Meth crimes are the worst.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:15am
- Aunty
  
  I agree. Suicide by cop. An uncommon but not exactly rare phenomenon, and hardly a ‘victim’. More like a perpetrator.
  
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  February 18, 2020 5:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I don’t think Jacinda Ardern has hitched herself and her party to a sure winner.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/409752/nz-first-foundation-trustee-was-lobbying-for-donor
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February 18, 2020 8:03am
- Raphael
  
  Soper finally put out an article up about the saga, first having a swipe at National then a small dig at our Glorious Leader.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309329
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:05am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh he gets 3 good digs at her with his final sentence:
    
    The monkey approach shows who’s really in charge, but she can’t forever remain deaf, blind and mute to what’s going on around her – the longer she floats above it the more she’s seen as a snowflake.
    
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    February 18, 2020 8:11am
    - Souvlaki
      
      “Despotic” / “corrupt ‘ would be better epithets than the slightly benevolent ” snowflake” to my mind.
      We have NEVER had such a dilatory moron “leading ” our country.
      How do journalists such as Audrey Young look at themselves in the mirror each day,supporting such unethical behaviour??
      
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      February 18, 2020 8:32am
    - Rich Prick
      
      As the Assistant Prime Minister, I doubt she has the authority to deal with Winston and NZF.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:01am
    - Jack5
      
      Barely Sober is pretty good at jumbling metaphors, Maggy.
      
      He has Jacinda not only as a hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no-evil monkey, but as a monkey that is levitating — and also looks like a snowflake.
      
      Kipling’s Gods of Copybook Headings would be shaking their heads.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:59am
  - pdm
    
    Soper was an embarrassment when talking to his wife on NewstalkZB at 16.50approx yesterday.
    
    Nothing more than a Peters apologist and sycophant.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:56am
    - RightFirstTime
      
      Soper is an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth.
      
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      February 18, 2020 5:47pm
  - Ruahine
    
    A good swipe at Bridges. A repeating of the known facts concerning NZ First. A swipe at Ardern also.
    All is still is good with his drinking buddy though.
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:35am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The really irony here is that Woolerton was lobbying on behalf of clients which were going to be affected by a policy being pushed by Winston Peters, a ban on foreign home buyers.
  
  What did they think they were buying from Woolerton?
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:17am
  - sooty
    
    Protection, from the Don!
    
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    February 18, 2020 12:37pm
- JackRabbit
  
  The plot thickens and the stench quickens.
  
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  February 18, 2020 12:54pm
JibberJabber

Heh Ardern, if she had any fewer braincells she`d have to be watered twice daily.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309337
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February 18, 2020 8:05am
- alex Masterley
  
  It is interesting that the Herald gave more prominence to JA’s meeting with Elton John than the thoughts of HDPA.
  Having said that the big news is that JA is called spineless by a member of the demographic that would ordinarily faun over her. Quite a seismic shift in thinking.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:49am
Scott

Coronavirus appears to be far worse in China than what we thought. According to Tom Cotton, a US senator, about 70 million people are under quarantine in China. He says that the Chinese have consistently lied about the virus from the beginning.

The origin of the virus is also mysterious as the biological warfare Centre used for military purposes is located in Wuhan, China. The story about the disease originating in the animal markets in Wuhan is also false according to Senator Cotton as some of the people had no exposure to the animal market.

NZ having a travel ban is the least we can do. NZ nationals coming back from China are told to self isolate. In America the health authorities isolate them. That’s the least we should do.
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February 18, 2020 8:10am
- Justitia
  
  I agree Scott. We should be interning all returnees in compulsory isolation. “Self-isolation” is a nonsense. This virus could well be an escapee from China’s biological warfare programme – no wonder Xi Xinping called it the “devil virus”. The government’s handling of the crisis so far has been incompetent.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:29am
  - surfing
    
    The genie is out of the bottle , I’m afraid.
    
    Given that it is contagious while symptomless, and is airborne – makes it hard to predict or stop.
    
    A vaccine is the only hope at this stage. Hopefully it is not a fast mutator, like the flu virus.
    
    I think it is unlikely this is from China’s biological warfare programme — it is simply not very effective at killing people.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:22am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      You don’t have to kill a lot of people to bring a country to it’s knees.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:35am
      - JackRabbit
        
        It is well known that creating causalities rather than deaths has a higher impact on resources.
        
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        February 18, 2020 2:48pm
    - Michael NZ
      
      surfing, unless it was a test to track vectors?
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:13am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Vaccine is a year away at best.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:26am
  - Michael NZ
    
    no Justitia, Jacinda’s handling of the risks oif the virus has been appalling.
    
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    February 18, 2020 10:13am
    - SGA
      
      From what I can tell, NZ has adopted very similar policies to places such as the US, Oz, Canada, and the UK. I don’t imagine that the last National government would have handled things much differently, tbh.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:22am
- SGA
  
  @Scott
  In America the health authorities isolate them. That’s the least we should do.
  
  In practise what the US is doing isn’t much different from here.
  
  American citizens, lawful permanent residents, and their families who have been in China in the past 14 days will be allowed to enter the United States, but will be redirected to one of 11 airports to undergo health screening. Depending on their health and travel history, they will have some level of restrictions on their movements for 14 days from the time they left China.
  
  more detail –
  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-china.html
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:53am
- DeepBlue
  
  Yesterday there was a ground zero article referring to a bat lab only 250m from the animal market. This makes sense as some sick workers from the lab could have infected the animal market for days before they fell sick, with other sick lab workers infecting elsewhere. This would explain the broader source cluster than the animal market.
  
  Has anyone seen a list of where the ‘first’ 50 patients worked and lived? We know not all were the animal market.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:19am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Scott
  I’ve also heard that biological warfare centre, located in Wuhan, being raised. My f****** ass it came from someone eating a bat.
  
  We have no reason whatsoever to believe anything the Chinese Government says. They’d be saying exactly the same things if either, a) all was accurate or b) all was totally fabricated.
  
  I see the NZ Universities now want to relax the travel ban, because they are losing millions. At least they have their priorities in order.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:28am
- Classic Liberal
  
  About self-isolation: on the news today people genuinely trying can’t even find a place to do it in (e.g. can’t go home to flats or houses that have only one bathroom, even when their families would provide them with food). When phoning motels and hotels they have been told they can’t come.
  
  Military and Health authorities need to help them: find a decent space, make it as comfortable as possible for them. If people say they can self-isolate, perhaps health authorities to check that it will really work for them and the surrounding people.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:35am
  - cmm
    
    I’s summer.
    If people are just in isolation (not actually sick), then tents at a campground would be fine.
    
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    February 18, 2020 10:22am
    - cmm
      
      Downtickers: What’s wrong with staying in a tent for two or three weeks?
      
      A few years back my family and I lived in tents for 4 months when we were between houses and that was inland Canterbury during end of summer/autumn- no worries.
      
      What’s the problem here?
      
      8 3
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      February 18, 2020 11:09am
  - SGA
    
    I’m not sure from where you are getting your information.
    Here’s what the powers-that-be mean by self-isolation
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/novel-coronavirus-self-isolation
    
    What does self-isolation mean?
    Self-isolation means staying away from situations where you could infect other people. This means any situation where you may come in close contact with others (face to face contact closer than 1 metre for more than 15 minutes), such as social gatherings, work, school, child care/pre-school centres, university, polytechnic and other education providers, faith-based gatherings, aged care and health care facilities, prisons, sports gatherings, restaurants, and all public gatherings.
    
    As much as possible, you should limit your contact with people other than the family members/companions that you travelled with. You should also avoid having visitors to your home, but it is okay for friends, family or delivery drivers to drop off food.
    
    If you are in a home where the other members have not travelled (eg, your home / flat, a homestay, student accommodation), minimise close contact with the other members by avoiding situations where you may have face to face contact closer than 1 metre for more than 15 minutes.
    
    You should not share dishes, drinking glasses, cups, eating utensils, towels, pillows, or other items with other people in your home. After using these items, you should wash them thoroughly with soap and water, place them in the dishwasher for cleaning, or wash them in your washing machine.
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:28am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      My information was summarizing what the news item on RNZ said this this morning, including the concern voiced by some recently arrived people.
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:56pm
      - SGA
        
        Perhaps the recently arrived people weren’t sure what was going to be involved and were imagining something much worse than the reality?
        
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        February 18, 2020 2:46pm
    - cmm
      
      That “15 minutes” crap is so out of date it is dangerous.
      
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      February 18, 2020 5:07pm
      - SGA
        
        It looked pretty odd to me too, cmm. 15 sec perhaps, but 15 min?
        
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        February 18, 2020 5:58pm
- Aunty
  
  It won’t be enough I fear. There is an outbreak in Singapore too, and Japan and Hong Kong, and we have no travel restrictions or requirements to self-isolate on people coming in from or passing through those countries at the moment.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:56am
artemisia

The Green Party. Back in 2014 they scored 11% of the vote and had 14 MPs. Scroll forward to 2017 – 6.3% of the vote and 8 MPs. Some of that was the Metiria Effect for sure.

But Greens have a higher profile now as a coalition partner. And have scored a few decent wins, if smacking Taranaki could be called decent. Yet polls are showing no great change from 2017, down a tad if anything.

Wouldn’t it be reasonable to expect the Metiria Effect to have dissipated by now? So why isn’t the Green vote heading back towards 2014 levels?

Enquiring minds …
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February 18, 2020 8:11am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  1. The media isn’t giving them much attention
  2. They’ve run out of money
  3. They’ve run out of relevance
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:19am
  - Ruahine
    
    I like No 3 the best.
    
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    February 18, 2020 8:33am
    - Sydney Alvarado
      
      It is hard to say. Probably lots of things. The communists in the Party don’t like James Shaw so may now vote Labour. The inner urban mums who want to save the planet actually drive giant SUVs and may have noticed the Green blocking of new roads.
      
      Would be an interesting research project.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:02am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        “The inner urban mums who want to save the planet actually drive giant SUVs”
        
        This. Boy, am I sick of my otherwise nice friends who claim they are ‘green’ because they ‘don’t have any plastic in the house’ while driving huge distances and actually have heaps of items in the house made of plastic (most of the kitchen cupboards and machinery, all paints, insulation etc), and do dozens of environmentally demanding things daily. But they no longer use supermarket plastic bags for their dog poo, so they consider themselves ‘green’.
        
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        February 18, 2020 9:44am
    - sooty
      
      When you look at the green MPs, they are all moulded in the image of a Twyford!
      Dead useless!
      
      24 2
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      February 18, 2020 9:03am
  - curry4me
    
    .3 Good point. ‘Reclaiming the C -word’ has so much to do with environmentalism. rolling over on the Kermadec sanctuary, and cameras on fishing boats didn’t help either. Then there’s the quality of their female MPs.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:53am
    - Michael NZ
      
      curry don’t forget the “faux feminista” ignoring the victims in Jacinda’s offices and the Iranina women (golrizs homeland) etc etc…
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:16am
      - curry4me
        
        Oh yes, there’s that too. Thanks for the heads up.
        
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        February 18, 2020 7:21pm
  - RiP NZ
    
    4. Shaw [ Mod : nah ]
    5. Jag and fox
    
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    February 18, 2020 5:23pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Supporters don’t see the coalition as working in their interests?
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:20am
- Tony Stuart
  
  What the Metiria Effect produced was a female co-leader even further to the Left than Turei, and a Green Party which uses the environment as an excuse to push for hardcore socialist policy. The addition of Ricardo Menendez-March to its suite of candidates does nothing to diminish that perception.
  
  I believe the Greens will lose some votes to Vernon Tava’s Sustainable New Zealand Party, which seems far more green-focused. Also Tava has expressed a willingness to talk to either National or Labour if elected, and seems far more moderate than the current Green Party extremists.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:24am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Tava’s party will go nowhere. There’s no opening for a “blue-green” party, at least not in contemporary NZ politics.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:14am
    - Hacked-Off
      
      But that does not matter if the Sustainable NZ Party does not make it to Parliament. As long as it takes votes from the Greens. The weaker the Greens in 2020 the better it is for NZ.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:25am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Precisely. Any party that dilutes the Green Party’s vote is OK by me 😀
        
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        February 18, 2020 10:50am
      - Ed Snack
        
        But a political one-off is of very limited usefulness. I just don’t think people will find them relevant. What are they going to preach, ecological salvation through market forces and nuclear power ?
        
        4 1
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        February 18, 2020 11:29am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  They haven’t been a proper Green party since the demise of Rod Donald.
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:27am
  - Simon
    
    Since Donald ….. They have never been green.
    
    Fertilising your own food with your own shit is a hallmark of communism not environmentalism.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:06am
    - Ruahine
      
      They do that in North Korea and nearly all the peasants are full of worms.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:39am
  - sooty
    
    The greens are going to bleed support to every party except NZF!
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:09am
- Simon
  
  “So why isn’t the Green vote heading back towards 2014 levels?”
  
  Because the Green MPs are shit scared that Cindy might frown at them if they spout their usual far left, anti human, society wrecking bullshit too much.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:10am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I linked to the IUSY website yesterday. Taxinda was the President of it, and its policies are about as far left as you can get. The only reason she’d frown is because she can’t push NZ in extreme socialism fast enough.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:56am
- Than
  
  The Green’s best results were in 2011 and 2014, both years Labour did extremely poorly. Labour’s vote has now mostly recovered, and it seems likely a chunk of this will be winning back left-leaning voters who switched to the Greens. This especially makes sense when Jacinda Ardern says stuff like “climate change is our generation’s Nuclear-Free moment”, which would appeal to potential Green-voters.
  
  Former Green supporters may also be disappointed in how little the party has been able to achieve now that they’re part of the government. NZ First clearly has much more influence over policy. The Zero Carbon Bill has been slammed by many climate-activists as giving too much to farmers. There has been virtually zero progress on rail and the announced infrastructure package is skewed heavily towards roads. About the only major environmental policy of this government that climate-activists approve of would be the oil/gas exploration ban… a policy which Jacinda Ardern gets the credit for.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:11am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Their only political tactic is to tell us everything’s going to shit and we have to elect them so they can clean it up. Much harder to do that plausibly when you’re in government.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:12am
- DeepBlue
  
  Could be the Metiria Effect worked both ways, some supporting Greens others deserting, so cancelled out. Now everyone’s headed to their natural home: Matiria who?.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:22am
- Ford Prefect
  
  Is it not like a vote for ACT?
  
  Several Kiwibloggers have complained that National are too far left on a number of topics and they’d like to vote for ACT, but feel that would be a waste of a vote. Therefore they are almost forced to vote National, as they are to the right of Labour, therefore the lesser of two evils.
  
  With the Green vote tanking, perhaps their non-core followers feel that a vote for Labour will still count and keep National out of power.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:31am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I believe it is because of Meteria that people have finally realised they are water melons. They should not be allowed to call themselves the Green party as its like false advertising and naive people vote for the name as it makes them feel like they care about the planet.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:15am
- Stephen Russell
  
  Being part of a Government, they have shifted form opposing things (which is really easy) to supporting things, which is boring. Labour – as the major party – gets all the credit for things Govt supporters like, but Greens share the blame for anything they do not like.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:44am
  - artemisia
    
    Good point, much more fun to oppose, especially when only talking points and a loud voice is needed. Supporting means actually doing some work.
    
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    February 19, 2020 7:34am
Happychappy

Barry Soper shows ,what a bitter twisted individual he is with this, Jacinda Ardern can’t forever remain blind to what going on around her , but immediately starts to smear Paula Bennett for saying that sort of behavior is not acceptable in the National Leaders book by referring back to Simon Bridges and how he handled Jamie Lee Ross and Maureen Pugh.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309329
This was supposed to be about Jacinda Ardern and the fact that she is Prime Minister and avoids the hard issues like the plague when questioned about her gutless stand and relationship with Winston Peters not Paula Bennett or Simon Bridges.
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February 18, 2020 8:14am
- Lance
  
  Barry Soper a lefty sock puppet?????
  I’m shocked!!!
  /sarc/
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:58am
- Souvlaki
  
  I am sensing some discord between Soper & his wife HDPA over Peters/BFD……Soper valiantly tries each day to trivialise the issue and defend Peters by deflection/minimisation and HDPA is steaming on the issue. Recall Whaleoil attempted to destroy HDPA in 2015 over her mail order acquisition of a rifle……something I think she is very mindful of with this latest ( ? pay per article ) collusion between Peters & the latter day WO .
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:59am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Yeah nah, they are running a tag team, I would take anything either of them said with a grain of salt.
    The last thing Barely Sober wants is to jeopardise his seat on the 757.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:33am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    They are an odd couple. Must be interesting pillow talk.
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:17am
- sooty
  
  Soper is pissed off, he hitched his wagon to Whinestone and is now seeing his career disappearing into the sunset, with Whinestone!
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:12am
kevn

[ Mod : very clever ] thinking person off.
[ I see a spell in the slammer coming if you keep it up ]
30 3
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February 18, 2020 8:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  And you too?
  
  3 25
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  February 18, 2020 9:05am
- rangitoto
  
  Or Golly G celebrating the murder of an 18th century explorer. These people are seriously warped.
  
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  February 18, 2020 12:21pm
- Tall Man
  
  [ Mod : no point whinging … we don’t do discussions]
  
  [ Mod : see above ]
  
  1 3
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  February 18, 2020 1:28pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I’m not whinging, I am asking why G unt is ok when other variations are not.
    
    [ Mod : you’re right. Missed it. Sorry ]
    
    If you think that is whinging you must have been a real whiner in school!
    
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    February 18, 2020 4:37pm
Minsk400

Still nothing on the Standard about the PM’s evasions on NZ First. I don’t know what I was expecting.
35 1
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February 18, 2020 8:28am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why do you even go there? I hope you’ve disinfected yourself.
  
  19 2
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  February 18, 2020 9:01am
  - sooty
    
    Yes you should isolate yourself for 14 days before coming here!
    
    23 2
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    February 18, 2020 9:14am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  They have no objective ethical standards is why. Only a subjective double-standard: “if the other guy does it, we’re up in arms; if we do it, nothing to see here.” It’s why they are fine with whitey being belittled, but never allow browny the same treatment. “Wrong” is not an absolute; it is contextual.
  
  Remember, they don’t think like normal decent people, who apply a universal moral code to all. That concept is uniquely an institution of the despised Western Patriarchy, so of course their values are amorphous and malleable. Political expedience and the gaining and maintaining of power is really their sole value.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:39am
- Bobba Fret
  
  They don’t like it when people disagree with them. Reading the comments on the Standard is funny as they often just ban people on sensitive subjects they do not like talking about.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:19am
Yvette

A stuff item which reports Winston Peters has repaid the electoral support of the racing industry with changes to the bloodstock tax rules and plans for an all-weather track … also says –

Peters regained the racing portfolio when he negotiated a coalition with Labour last year. This came after Ardern declined to give NZ First the fisheries portfolio, due to his party receiving significant donations from seafood magnate Peter Talley and others in the fisheries industry.  Although names like Baigent and Talley were disclosed as donors to individual NZ First MPs, the party itself did not disclose the source of any of its $550,000 in donations. [1]

Now that further disclosures have been made regarding the sources of many of New Zealand First’s donations, why has Ardern not reconsidered her acceptance of Peters being racing minister, given her earlier denying NZ First the fisheries portfolio, due to the party receiving significant donations from seafood magnate Peter Talley and others in the fisheries industry?

Why does no journalist question her own consistency with her earlier reported actions?

[1] https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/104046573/winston-peters-changes-tax-rules-for-racing-industry-that-backed-nz-first
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February 18, 2020 8:34am
- sooty
  
  Why do we have a racing minister?
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:16am
  - Komata
    
    sooty@0916
    
    So he can swipe the money and run?
    
    It seems reasonable…
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:32am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Well, someone has to be there to receive the industry’s donations.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:39am
    - Swifty
      
      Heh.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:40am
  - Swifty
    
    You know the answer already my dear sooty.
    
    And while we’re at it – just think about that. We have a ministry and associated bureaucracy for animals running around a paddock.
    
    FFS.
    
    12 1
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    February 18, 2020 9:40am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      MPI?
      
      1 12
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      February 18, 2020 10:13am
      - sooty
        
        If there is a minister for racing, why not one for rugby!
        Or one for all the commuting cyclist?
        
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        February 18, 2020 12:45pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, we have a sports minister and a transport minister.
        NZ has been long famous for its number of ministerial portfolios. I recall C Northcote Parkinson (of the eponymous law) had something to say about it.
        
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        February 18, 2020 1:31pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    So he can make the horses beautiful.
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:13am
Paulus

After some more investigation it appears that Grant Robertson may be “required” to stand as a List member. Despite his aspirations.
Understand that the new Labour Party President is looking carefully at the state of the party as their membership is declining.
It is her view, we have heard, that more women should be elected and that some of the current Labour Members are not conforming to her expectations and those who own and run the Party.
Which is why she got the job.
Perhaps Robertson no longer has expectations for his future having wriggled for year within the Parliamentary confines with his cohorts not under real Party control.
It is now being muted that the Party needs to revitalise itself as they are no longer seen to be a powerhouse for the Unions that they once were.
The Greens are predominantly a women’s party, with Shaw only as a token male, from whence they get their membership and money so perhaps Labour will turn more towards the woman’s vote as Ardern as a show pony has shown.
Should be an interesting few months.
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February 18, 2020 8:35am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The Greens are predominantly a women’s party, with Shaw only as a token male
  
  That’s a bit tough on Gareth Hughes!
  
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  February 18, 2020 8:41am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Who?
    
    21 1
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    February 18, 2020 8:50am
  - Two fish and a scoop thanks Cindy
    
    Who?
    
    20 2
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    February 18, 2020 8:51am
  - Tall Man
    
    Who?
    
    😉
    
    19 3
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    February 18, 2020 9:06am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      OK; maybe I gave Hughes too much credibility…
      
      23 1
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      February 18, 2020 9:19am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Isn’t Hughes standing down this year?
        
        3 1
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        February 18, 2020 4:37pm
    - sooty
      
      He’s there for the youth vote!
      But he’s leaving just as they want to bring in votes for his age group of 18yrs!
      
      17 1
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      February 18, 2020 9:21am
  - Random T Person
    
    Hasn’t Gareth retired?
    
    13 1
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    February 18, 2020 9:21am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Who?
      
      13 1
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      February 18, 2020 9:57am
    - alwyn
      
      Not until the election. He will get paid until then, plus pick up another 3 months pay after election date.
      I think Gareth is simply being a great deal more realistic than the rest of the people in the Green Caucus and in the Green Party Leader’s, and Ministerial, Offices in Parliament.
      He has decided, correctly in my view, that the Green Party will not get to the 5% threshold and there isn’t going to be a Green Party in the next Parliament. That is going to leave all the Green MPs and the Party staffers looking for jobs in October this year, Gareth is trying to get in first to snaffle one of the few jobs outside politics that he, and others of his ilk, are able to do. He and the others will be playing Musical Chairs and he is simply getting a head start on the others by looking for a job now.
      What will it be? Forty or fifty people chasing ten jobs? I think Gareth is displaying a great deal more intelligence than I credited him with.
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:11am
      - sooty
        
        He will not be going into any business, he can only survive in some kind of government supported trough, you know, lots of money, do little type of thing!
        
        6 1
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        February 18, 2020 12:49pm
  - tf78
    
    I thought Gareth left the party.
    
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    February 18, 2020 10:15am
    - stigie
      
      Who..?
      
      8 1
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      February 18, 2020 11:09am
- Classic Liberal
  
  “It is her view, we have heard, that more women should be elected”
  
  Yup, this is the problem that I think more Kiwis are waking up to: identity politics don’t select people on merit. Yet Greens and Labour run both their parties and would like to run the whole country on identity politics.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:07am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Let them turn towards the women’s vote. Women, except the unruly XR mob, know that if a PM can’t manage she can’t run a country.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:17am
RRM

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/119593887/heres-how-the-government-could-force-you-to-sell-your-house-for-state-housing

“special development projects will be the sort that the Government says developers currently struggle to complete, because of problems such as fragmented land parcels, uncoordinated decision-making, poor and aging infrastructure and restrictive planning requirements.”

Wait, what? Those are all problems government regulation caused in the first place!

McKay said the market had not delivered and action was needed. “We’ve reached the point where someone’s got to start to do things properly.”

LMFAO because people building what they can, within the economic climate and regulatory framework that actually exists, isn’t “doing it properly!!”

Cheerleaders for government just need a kick in the dick sometimes…
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February 18, 2020 8:53am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Dave Cull says: “There could be misalignment with local district plans, he said, and local communities’ desires for their areas, he said.”
  
  I’ll say! People aren’t NIMBIES for having swathes of developments, let alone social housing developments suddenly built in what was previously meant to be a moderately populated area.
  
  Here’s the solution: don’t overpopulate Auckland!
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:19am
Raphael

Holden vs Ford looks like Ford has won by attrition.
https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/what-holden-s-death-means-for-current-owners/

Is GM just stopping making any cars for cars for the whole LHT market, or just Aus and NZ?

It does make me wonder if some folk in Australia shouldn’t start investigating starting up a new car manufacturing company
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February 18, 2020 8:54am
- RRM
  
  GM Daewoo Australia finally concedes they can’t compete with Japanese engineering. A win for Australian taxpayers who no longer stump up to subsidise General Motors.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:04am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  New car manufacturing will never work in Oz as the market’s too small. GM only survived as long as they did because of massive taxpayer subsidies. When local manufacture ended so did the subsidies and when the fully-imported new model Commodore failed to sell that was the end of that.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:05am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    I thought Sco Mo getting all butt hurt was absurd.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/feb/17/holden-brand-to-be-axed-after-general-motors-announces-it-will-exit-australian-market
    
    “Angry Scott Morrison accuses GM of letting Holden ‘wither away’ after taking $2bn in subsidies”
    
    The writing has been on the wall for 30 years. And whose fault was it that GM got $2bn from Australian Governments?
    
    Holden went bust because they were making the wrong cars at the wrong price. The last few years they have been importing rebadged “Commodores” from Germany, and they have been widely ridiculed. Who is going to buy a weird Commodore when you can buy a Kia Stinger, a RAV 4, or a Ford Ranger (depending on your taste).
    
    Some things just send politicians to do crazy things. In Australia it was car manufacturing. Right now in New Zealand it is light rail. For local government it is airports and longer runways. And these boondoggles always end the same way.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:28am
- Jules99
  
  The UK gets a lot of European cars that are left hand drive. I owned a lovely little Renault when I lived there a few years back. The UK is a pretty big market so they won’t be stopping production any time soon.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:09am
  - mark15
    
    You dont get holdens in the uk.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:26am
    - Raphael
      
      you do get Vauxhall which until 2017 was owned by GM and used to rebadge some Holdens.
      
      (now owned by Groupe PSA)
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:35am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      But you get Vauxhalls and the supplier (Opel) is now owned by Peugeot/Citroen so I can’t see that lasting much longer.
      
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      February 18, 2020 9:38am
    - freethinker
      
      And most Renaults are in the repair shop.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:08am
- Jack5
  
  General Motors is now out of production in all right-hand-drive markets.
  
  A sad decline of a pioneering motor giant that played a big part in the American industrial muscle that won World War 2.
  
  One of the better business books, Alfred P. Sloan’s “My Years with General Motors” tells of the creation of GM, and the business model it pioneered.
  
  The motor business and GM’s foreign rivals could be in line for a still bigger shake-up with the rise of electric vehicles, or perhaps hydrogen-powered ones.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:06am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    This is a good read. It includes Sloan and GM:
    https://www.amazon.com/Rational-Leadership-Developing-Iconic-Corporations/dp/0198825390/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=paul+brooker&qid=1581975185&sr=8-3
    
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    February 18, 2020 10:33am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I’m sad that Holden is going and I’m a Ford man.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:27am
Maggy Wassilieff

Pascal has placed on ysb an interesting exchange of letters with our Chief Science adviser … and the evidence for our Climate Change policies
https://ysb.co.nz/have-your-say-308/#comment-55140
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February 18, 2020 8:57am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Pascal’s Wager?
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:06am
  - Than
    
    So, even if you don’t believe in god/that climate-change is real and human caused, the negative consequence of eternal damnation/climate-change is so bad that you should act as if it’s real, just in case?
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:28am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hah! Nicely done.
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:16am
- cmm
  
  Shocking. Science this is not.
  
  I see the new number for the CH4 multiplication factor is now 84. It used to be somewhere in the 30s.
  
  I’d like to see the actual derivation of the number, but I suppose it is just from some computer simulation that is tilted to provide “the right answer”.
  
  This number is hugely important to NZ, particularly the farming sector, as this multiplier is used to take our small CH4 emissions and expand it to the point where it makes up something like 40% of our emissions.
  
  I am prepared to believe there is some multiplier, but I think a number of less than 5 is in order. That would immediately reduce NZ’s emissions by 38%
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:18am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Please, please can you stand for Parliament to implement this one policy.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:28am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Wow, incredible. In their 16 October 2019 text the OPMCSA simply *lies* about what Peter Morgan had stated.
  
  He wrote “you have already tacitly conceded to me that there is no physical evidence that
  mankind’s emissions of carbon dioxide have, are, or will cause our planet to warm up.”
  
  The OPMCSA simply lies about this with: “We absolutely refute your claim that the PMCSA has “tacitly conceded that there is no physical
  evidence of climate change”.”
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:34am
JibberJabber

You know that house you`ve sweated blood to own, raise your family in, provide for your own retirement?
The commie scum that currently “run” this country want to take it off you to give it to the deadbeats that vote for them.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119593887/heres-how-the-government-could-force-you-to-sell-your-house-for-state-housing?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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February 18, 2020 8:59am
- greybeard
  
  This won’t happen before the election, and therefore won’t happen at all.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:25am
MCos

Simon Bridges announcement yesterday regarding income tax relief for the average was a train wreak as we all know by now.
He talked about people on the average wage paying 33% tax.
This morning listening to his Financial Spokesman on RNZ it became apparent who put him crook.
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February 18, 2020 9:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Well, that’s entertaining:
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-02-2020/good-news-for-simon-bridges-his-big-tax-idea-is-already-happening/
  Next trick, ask him how much a litre of milk costs!
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:26am
  - Batman
    
    Mike I’m surprised you’re pushing that nonsense argument from the left.
    
    It is scarcely believable and shows how willing some on the left are to score points over common sense.
    
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    February 18, 2020 9:37am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You don’t believe the quote?
      
      “People on the average wage shouldn’t be paying almost 33 per cent in the dollar.”
      
      Fake news, misquoted, or ‘taken out of context’?
      
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      February 18, 2020 10:19am
      - alloytoo
        
        Hyperbole?
        
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        February 18, 2020 11:10am
      - Batman
        
        Sorry been busy doing other things.
        
        No I don’t, it’s a selected quote from a speech which misses the context.
        
        He is clearly referring to average income which is much closer to 70k. And it is true that our top bracket is far too low.
        
        For example, teachers at the top step of their (stupid) salary structure are paying the highest rate of tax. It’s nonsensical and should be adjusted.
        
        Simon is correct and the mischief mongers on the left are being disingenuous. Of course they love to cite median wage because it’s lower and makes us look like a poverty stricken country that needs big minimum wage boosts and more unionism.
        
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        February 18, 2020 1:10pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The article does the sums for both median and average wages.
        Maybe Bridges just needs to be clear what he is talking about. Otherwise, commentators might feel entitled to assume he is proposing tax increases.
        
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        February 18, 2020 1:27pm
      - Batman
        
        That’s just playing smart ass games with it though. They know they’re playing word games with it
        
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        February 18, 2020 1:38pm
  - greybeard
    
    The writer of that article quotes the ‘median’ wage, not the ‘average’ or ‘mean’ wage. There is a hell of a difference.
    
    https://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/new-zealand
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:00am
- DeepBlue
  
  Not many people listened. Consider it a soft launch. I think National just wanted to get their election planks out before Labour could announce similar ideas, plus in case there is an early election.
  
  Simon can practise at home and relaunch in a few months. He must do better.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:35am
- Classic Liberal
  
  I think most people understand that he’s referring to the leap from 17.5 to 30% tax we pay when earning above 48K. 48K is not ‘rich’ in NZ.
  
  Running my own little business and with a disability and low energy levels I think very hard about taking on more business when I know I’ll be paying that heftier tax for all the extra, exhausting hours.
  
  Meanwhile Taxinda will be generously dishing out each of the 30% per dollar I’m forcing myself to earn.
  
  Of course the tax margins need to rise as inflation has risen!
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:41am
  - MCos
    
    Simon Bridges said
    “People on the average wage shouldn’t be paying almost 33% in the dollar,”
    That’s what most people heard and would no doubt agree.
    Of course, as anyone who earns around the average wage knows they don’t pay anything like 33% in tax.
    
    I note that an average tax rate of 30% requires an income of $245,000
    Note that at that salary our tax is less than the UK or the USA.
    Of course the USA has no gst or public healthcare for all. In the UK the vat rate is much higher than our gst.
    
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    February 18, 2020 1:24pm
    - Batman
      
      That average tax calculation is bullshittery by dicks who think they’re being clever and trying to get a burn on Bridges
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:40pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I would appreciate a fuller explanation. Surely, either the average wage is $64,650, as reported, or it is not. Surely, income tax on that is either $12,415 (19.2%), as reported, or it is not.
        
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        February 18, 2020 2:59pm
- Minsk400
  
  Look at Goldsmith’s record. From Newsroom:” But our productivity and thus our wealth has continued to lag badly. In 1990, we ranked 20th in the OECD in terms of GDP per capita, but only 21st in 2008 and 27th in 2018. We are still some 10 percent below the OECD’s average GDP per capita.
  
  How will doing more of what we’ve done for the past three decades finally make us wealthy? I asked. Goldsmith offered no explanation.“
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:05am
Happychappy

It looks like a link to the alledged corruption involving the NZ First Foundation has been established with one NZ First Foundation of the two Trustees alleged to have excepted tens of thosands of dollar in donations from a client of his lobbying business.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309351
Also asking National MP David Carter for a meeting on changes to the Overseas Investment Act as his clients are seeking a amendment to the bill.
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February 18, 2020 9:04am
- Tony Stuart
  
  There’s absolutely nothing wrong with asking for a meeting with an MP who is a member of a select committee. That’s what lobbyists do.
  
  What looks less kosher is the clients of the lobbyist then making donations to a Foundation of which the lobbyist was a trustee, conveniently just $0.01 less than the amount required to be disclosed.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:56am
JibberJabber

Watch Labour and the Greens jump on this Yakkademic bandwagon,
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/481011-old-age-who-disease/

‘OK, Boomer’ mentality: Academics want to label old age a disease, in case you had any respect left for the elderly

We have already seen the Gerontophobic Greens dehumanising anyone older than them in Parliament , this is just the beginning of the New World Order they are impatient to impose, a generation that will inherit more wealth than any other in history, too lazy to wait.
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February 18, 2020 9:06am
- cmm
  
  Perfectly happy with that, so long as youth is also classified as a different disease and 40-somnethings too.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:16am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Perhaps they’re hoping that by categorising old age as a disease, all persons over a certain age can be declared to be terminally ill, and therefore subject to the provisions of the End of Life Choice Act.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:58am
Captain Mainwaring

Did I hear this story right?
Apparently a developer is building an apartment block in Onehunga. Some private buyers bought some of the apartments then Housing NZ (which now has some ridiculous Maori name) signed up for some of the others. The existing buyers were told about this, then the developer sold the whole lot to HNZ and offered the original buyers their deposits back.
Message to developers: Don’t worry if it’s too hard to sell all your houses, the Govt. will bail you out (with our money).
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February 18, 2020 9:11am
- peterwn
  
  The sale agreements would have had the usual ‘sunset’ clauses which supposedly protects the purchaser if the development runs late eg resource consent holdups. However either party can invoke the clause if things run late.
  A developer needs to make a portion of ‘off plan’ sales to secure bank financing and because they are ‘off plan’ and occupation is some time in the future the selling price is less than for a similar completed ‘walk in’ dwelling. So if all goes well (apart from being a bit late) and there is strong demand for the unsold units the developer will look for any excuse to wriggle out of the ‘off plan’ sales contracts.
  Anyone purchasing ‘off plan’ should amend the S&P agreement to protect against this, but the vendor is unlikely to accept such an amendment.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:34am
  - rangitoto
    
    The private buyers dodged a bullet. The apartments will now be filled with ferals.
    
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    February 18, 2020 10:23am
    - MCos
      
      They’re empty
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:31pm
  - GoVege
    
    Apparently the Addison housing estate in Takanini is one of the worst places in Auckland for being burgled.
    A resident said she was sitting in her lounge when a gang member walked in.
    This is the problem with building anywhere near state housing areas.
    Thieves don’t like to travel far to rip off other people.
    My hubby was talking to a fella last year about the houses going up next to his HNZ house.
    He said he couldn’t wait until they were built, so he could go over and rob them.
    And this guy was at least 50.
    
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    February 18, 2020 12:50pm
    - MCos
      
      A relative a mine, my son, rented an ex state house for a year in the midst of Oranga, a post war state housing development & still predominantly state housing.
      No problems.
      Hot bed of Tongan patriotic fervour when their national league team was playing down the road at Mt Smart, but I doubt they care much for Elton John, Adele, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springsteen when they pop up in the neighbourhood.
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:44pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Sounds like one could turn this story aroud, Cap’n. How would you feel if you had bought one and then found out your neighbours were to be HNZ tenants? Would you change your mind?
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:54am
lastmanstanding

I never voted for MMP. Why. Because I like my Parliament like my boxing a contest between 2 men ( cough) or 2 women.

If we had MMP in 1984 we would never had the transformation to our economy which note is still mostly still in place 36 years on.

The changes that Labour Government made were very unpopular at the time and pissed off a large number of voters.

That Government could have enacted a CGT and I say if they had we would still have a CGT.

With MMP we are doomed to mediocrity with changes at the fringes rather than big moves that can improve the lot of the majority ( I point to the 84/87 Government again).

I hope this election as we seem to be seeing a move to the 2 major parties. On current polling they have nearly 90% well up on the early days of MMP when they had 80% or less.

Only a strong Government can make changes rightly or wrongly and the good news is as Rob Muldoon always said if you dont like what they do you can chuck them out after 3 years to minimise the damage.
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February 18, 2020 9:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I can see your point. But the changes in 1984-87 are frequently overstated. In reality, those changes had very litle impact on New Zealand’s relative economc decline since the 1960s. i don’t believe keeping the FPP electoral system would have changed that at all.
  
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  February 18, 2020 9:56am
- Classic Liberal
  
  If we had a CGT we would be taxing people on the inflation of their properties! So if you sell an investment property you’d be unable to buy another after paying CGT.
  
  Don’t tax inflation!
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:48am
  - Jack5
    
    Another poster countered this argument in recent times, Classic Liberal.
    
    As I recall it, the counter was that the property investor typically only needs to invest the equivalent of a deposit, borrowing the rest. Interest on that loan is then offset against income in tax assessment, reducing tax.
    
    Any inflation benefit on the deposit part of the asset value of the house is protected from capital gains tax to the extent that it is the rise in the total value that is is subject to the tax – not the difference between the deposit and the new total value.
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:38am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Older people don’t, in fact often can’t, borrow much money. Many Mum and Dad investors have their retirement savings in one or two investment properties.
      
      The idea of the government owning part of that value is a socialist one.
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:09pm
- Ian Boag
  
  And the cool thing about strong FPP governments is that they don’t need anything that remotely resembles 50% of the vote. Boris’s landslide was done with 43%.
  
  No need to even get the most votes (Muldoon ’81).
  
  Anyone under 45 or so has only known MMP …
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:02am
  - Jack5
    
    The electoral system of First Past the Post had its flaws. It was unfair to minorities. But MMP has given them disproportionate power.
    
    FPP didn’t completely disregard minorities. They tended to work as factions within the main parties.
    
    We need to keep looking for a better system than MMP.
    
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    February 18, 2020 11:22am
    - Ian Boag
      
      They tended to work as factions within the main parties.
      
      I remember Muldoon explaining that many of the Values Party ideas influenced the National Party. I think he had his fingers crossed ….
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:36pm
    - Batman
      
      It isn’t MMP that has given them too much power, it is our use of a stupid 5% threshold.
      
      If we did away with it, more people would vote Act or Conservative, and Winston wouldn’t be able to behave like a corrupt shit because he would get overlooked when it came to government formation time!
      
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      February 18, 2020 1:51pm
      - Two fish and a scoop thanks Cindy
        
        Genuine question;
        Given that the purpose of the threshold was to prevent McGillicuddy Serious or fringe/extreme type parties from holding any power, do you think there should be a threshold, if so where and if not, why?
        
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        February 18, 2020 1:59pm
      - Batman
        
        My view is that it should be just above the vote share needed for a single seat.
        
        In other words, you should have to get two seats worth of votes to get into Parliament. That’s about 2.5% or so
        
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        February 18, 2020 2:24pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Genuine answer to @TwoFish. I think the example that MMP designers were looking at was Israel where there is no threshold and a plethora of small (generally fairly extremist) parties.
        
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        February 18, 2020 2:45pm
      - Jack5
        
        My understanding is that NZ’s MMP was closely modelled on the German system.
        
        When the Western Allies returned democracy to West Germany, the West German people amended the proportional system of the 1930s, and, I am told, one of the amendments was the 5 per cent threshold.
        
        This was an attempt to prevent the chaos in the German Parliament leading up to the Nazi’s gaining power.
        
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        February 18, 2020 5:07pm
      - Batman
        
        That is correct, but it hasn’t prevented the German Parliament from having far more parties than here.
        
        They are highly regionalised and favtionalised. They don’t really have the big broad churches like we do here.
        
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        February 18, 2020 6:26pm
JibberJabber

Stop and Frisk Bloomberg, not content with showing his complete and utter ignorance of Farming,
https://twitter.com/PeterMentes/status/1228518467776761856

wants to neglect the elderly when he deems them to be a burden on society, unless of course, they are wealthy like himself,

https://twitter.com/CANCEL_SAM/status/1229127380402393088

Like one of the comments says, “fuck Socialism!”
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February 18, 2020 9:19am
Rodney Randall

Has Beecroft gone FULL RETARD suggesting the right to remain silent be stripped?

Beecroft should resign immediately.
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February 18, 2020 9:32am
- rangitoto
  
  Does he think that removing the right to silence will mean the crims are going to say “ossifer it was me what done it”. What a tool.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:20am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Probably like they think gangs will hand in their guns now that they’re illegal!
    
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    February 18, 2020 1:35pm
- mandk
  
  OK, but just to look at it from a slightly different angle, parents and other adult carer are 100% responsible for the welfare of their children.
  
  Doesn’t this mean that they are also 100% accountable for what happens to the children?
  
  Allowing the parents/carers the right to remain silent would mean that they are a lot less than 100% accountable.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:05am
- freethinker
  
  Should I be forced to speak I can rabbit on in unintelligible gabble for hours in a unknown language – learnt from Cindy & Robo!
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:18am
- greybeard
  
  He only came out with that view after thousands of people rang / emailed / texted radio talkback and posted online comments on sites such as KB.
  He realised on which side his bread was buttered.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:35am
curry4me

I hope this can be acheived ASAP. It’s well past time to leave. Same for the ME.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/02/14/pinkerton-peace-with-honor-in-afghanistan/
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February 18, 2020 9:34am
- MCos
  
  I don’t intend to read the article, but the headline has an echo of the past.
  America couldn’t wait to get out of Vietnam ‘with honour’. They got out, but there was precious little honour as the South was soon overrun.
  As sure as night follows day the Teleban will ignore whatever treaties they’ve signed and America will turn a blind eye.
  Peace with honour, this year.
  Next year – who cares?
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Also used by Cicero, Shakespeare, Edmund Burke, Disraeli, and Chamberlain.
    
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    February 18, 2020 10:23am
    - freethinker
      
      You missed off the Coalition of Clowns and Trolls.
      
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      February 18, 2020 11:19am
  - curry4me
    
    They invaded Afghanistan to get bin Liner. He’s dead. Time to leave. Nation building doesn’t work. It’s a total waste of blood and treasure. As for Vietnam, the Democratic congress would not release funds for President Ford to bomb the NVA when it invaded the south.
    
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    February 18, 2020 7:41pm
curry4me

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/02/angela_merkel_and_the_destruction_of_german_democracy.html
How Ms Merkel has compromised democracy in Germany.
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February 18, 2020 9:34am
- freethinker
  
  I note that AfD in Thuringa has increased its share of the vote considerably and that Thuringa was the first province that Uncle Adolf had his first political representation in – history repeating itself??
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:25am
  - curry4me
    
    No, this time it’s Merkel that’s being un-democratic.
    
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    February 18, 2020 7:42pm
TripeWryter

I’m listening on the radio to Kerre McIvor agonising over the case of a little boy in Hawke’s Bay who is in a bad way with severe head injuries.

The right to silence is being discussed.

I remembered that I have deep-seated doubts after I read Stuff’s giving space and words to two ‘uncles’ who said the little boy was seriously injured playing on a bouncy castle.

That’s preposterous.

The little boy has injuries such that a veteran cop says they’re the worst he’s seen in 30 years.

And yet Stuff gave space to two men who were obviously lying.
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February 18, 2020 9:42am
- Michael NZ
  
  that’s why I don’t read stuff if I can avoid it.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:23am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It can only be hoped that their nonsensical public statement are eventually used as evidence against them.
  
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  February 18, 2020 10:24am
  - Rodney Randall
    
    The police will use anything against you whether you are innocent or not, hence the right to silence, from self incrimination.
    
    Long may the right to silence live, lest we fall into a full blown totalitarian state.
    
    “Any lawyer worth his salt will tell a suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to police under any circumstances.”
    
    So said Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson fifty years ago. Strong words from a man who had served as the Attorney General of the United States and as the Chief Prosecutor at Nuremburg.
    
    9 1
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    February 18, 2020 11:00am
- Swifty
  
  A small point – I thought I read that the uncle said the bouncy castle was the excuse for the first uplift – not the most recent injuries.
  
  Might be wrong.
  
  6 1
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  February 18, 2020 10:50am
- hilaryt
  
  I read it that the bouncy castle incident was an earlier one. Either way it’s all disgraceful.
  
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  February 18, 2020 12:00pm
Michael NZ

This is fantastic, they’ve outed themselves.
Brilliant we have a list a little little list now to start with…..

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/02/1100_former_federal_prosecutors_and_doj_officials_demand_barrs_resignation.html
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February 18, 2020 10:28am
- mikenmildagain
  
  All 1,100 of them? Will there be prisons big enough for them all?
  
  3 7
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  February 18, 2020 10:35am
- SGA
  
  Brilliant we have a list a little little list now to start with…..
  
  Almost needs a “bwahahahaha” to round that out. 🙂
  The list isn’t so little, there’s over 2000 names on it now (there’s a link to it from your link).
  
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  February 18, 2020 3:01pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Some folks will just celebrate that as members of the so-called ‘deep state’ outing themselves, making the so-called ‘swamp’ easier to drain.
    
    1 2
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    February 18, 2020 4:54pm
RRM

Jacinda consoles Elton; she understands how hard public criticism can be when you’ve taken people’s money & not delivered on your promises.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/119589594/jacinda-ardern-caught-up-with-incredibly-unwell-elton-john-in-auckland
26 1
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February 18, 2020 10:45am
Hugh Pavletich

CORONAVIRUS … UPDATE …

Wuhan Hospital Boss Dies, Beijing Finally Accepts American Infectious-Disease Experts … Zerohedge

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/14-diamond-princess-passengers-test-positive-during-flight-back-us-tokyo-marathon

Summary:
• China finally allows US experts in
• Singapore reports 3 new cases, DP reports 90
• Beijing weighs postponing National Congress
• Japan delays Tokyo Marathon, raising concerns about the Olympics
• 14 Americans aboard evacuation flight found to have virus
• 5 virus-linked deaths rumored in Tibet
• WHO reiterates that signs of slowdown in new China cases doesn’t mean outbreak is slowing
• Wuhan hospital boss dies
.
.
Updates … Economic Disruption Costs …

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/02/links-18-february-2020/#comment-3674204
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February 18, 2020 10:50am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  “The disruption is enormous.” Coronavirus epidemic snarls science worldwide … Science Magazine
  
  https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/disruption-enormous-coronavirus-epidemic-snarls-science-worldwide
  
  By Robert F. Service
  
  Normal daily life has come to a virtual standstill in large parts of China as a result of the epidemic of COVID-19—and so has science. Universities across the country remain closed; access to labs is restricted, projects have been mothballed, field work interrupted, and travel severely curtailed. But scientists elsewhere in the world are noticing an impact as well, as collaborations with China are on pause and scientific meetings for the next five months have been canceled or postponed. … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  February 18, 2020 2:54pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    CHINESE RESIDENTIAL BUYERS … HOW ACTIVE ARE THEY ? …
    
    China’s Latest Data Fabrication: Home Prices “Increased” Even As Largest Home Developer Offers 25% Discounts … Zerohedge
    
    https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/chinas-latest-data-fabrication-homes-prices-increased-even-chinas-top-home-developer
    
    … and from Malaysia …
    
    https://themalaysianreserve.com/2020/02/18/chinese-hk-buyers-interest-in-local-properties-disappears/
    
    1 4
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    February 18, 2020 5:51pm
  - freethinker
    
    Don’t understand down ticks, more information from Hugh that is useful even if it proves somewhat inaccurate – we will never know but the links do confirm how serious the Chinese are treating the virus and so we .
    
    3 3
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    February 18, 2020 6:04pm
Happychappy

Winston Peters talks to the media this morning or would you call it a love affair that’s on the rocks
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=217013
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February 18, 2020 11:12am
Jack5

The plundering of Christchurch ratepayers by the spendaholic City Council is under fire from columnist Mike Yardley in the Christchurch Press today.

Yardley highlights the ongoing high running costs of the big projects the council plans, such as for the $20 million worth of suburban pool projects.

He cites the annual cost of running free city museums at $17.3 million and the art gallery at $13 million, but he is wrong in blaming suburban libraries for the $50 million a year of cash the city pays for its libraries.

The library cost is dominated by the grandiloquent new $100 million central library, which entailed hiring tens of additional staff, Disneyish sidelines such as a computerised wall, and facilities such as sewing machines ( used mainly by backpackers). The library is vastly bigger than needed for the number of readers who live nearby.

The suburban libraries tend to be small, and well used, though they, too, have been extended into community centres, in creeping local-body welfare-ism.

Bob Jones had it right when he suggested early after the earthquakes that the city centre should be more of a tourist, and Christchurch business (and presumably services) could grow in regional hubs. That seems to be what the market wants – it’s the pattern that has emerged.

However, good on Yardley for highlighting the spendaholic councillors and the plight of Christchurch ratepayers. Too bad he’s bewitched by the rather new central library – an attractive building but an ongoing burden for ratepayers.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/119575063/chch-ratepayers-being-egregiously-pumped-by-suburban-spendathon
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February 18, 2020 11:12am
TripeWryter

Swifty: I might be wrong. But I thought they were talking about the latest injuries.

Anyway, they seem to be a rather dangerous family to be around if you’re a small child.
15 0
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February 18, 2020 11:13am
- Swifty
  
  It’s not clear:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119589914/uncles-claim-flaxmere-boys-earlier-injuries-caused-from-falling-off-a-bouncy-castle
  
  I read this as bouncy castle caused earlier injuries not the most recent injuries – certainly the headline hints at this.
  
  Dunno for sure.
  
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  February 18, 2020 11:36am
Maggy Wassilieff

Serious Fraud Office (SFO) is opening a formal investigation into the New Zealand First Foundation donations scandal.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/serious-fraud-office-to-investigate-new-zealand-first-foundation.html
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February 18, 2020 11:23am
Maggy Wassilieff

Question time in Parliament:
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/order-paper-questions/list-of-oral-questions/oral-questions-18-february-2020/
11 0
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February 18, 2020 11:36am
- Tall Man
  
  I’ve just popped back into the office and I see this is the last comment posted, 11:36.
  
  Slow day?
  
  8 3
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  February 18, 2020 1:29pm
  - sooty
    
    Thanks moderation!
    
    3 1
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    February 18, 2020 6:42pm
DeepBlue

Publicly funding political parties/ donation declaration levels is coming to news again soon, as a deflection for Jacinda.

Is a solution to have all donations go through an independent entity such as Public Trust, who checks the donation level and identity against the existing law and then passes the anonymous amount to the respective party? That way the donors cannot curry a favour because no one in the party would know who had made donations.
9 1
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February 18, 2020 2:07pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  This would very likely result in a reduction of donations. Good news!
  
  1 0
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  February 18, 2020 5:08pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  What’s the commission rate?
  
  2 0
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  February 18, 2020 5:26pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    Not much. If political parties get $5M pa (my guess) at say 2% commission it would still be cheaper than all this fuss re he said, she said, Electoral Commission, Police and SFO enquires. And would take away a whole lot of work from the parties individually.
    
    It’d be cheaper than changing the law all the time too.
    
    1 1
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    February 18, 2020 5:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Taxpayers have paid out about $10M to clean up the mess resulting from Forestry slash left on the hills behind Tolaga Bay.

To date, 2 Forestry companies have been fined $531,000.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/119572453/hikurangi-forest-farms-fined-379000-over-slash-destruction
11 0
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February 18, 2020 2:37pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Bit rough. Sucks. What would you suggest? Is this a Labour govt problem or would Nats have done it different?
  
  4 0
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  February 18, 2020 7:13pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Na, in the short-term it’s the fault of the Regional and District Councils who are too slack to enforce the pretty basic rules (RMA) connected with clear-felling a forest.
    
    In the long-term, its the fault of green activists, Labour & Nats for disestablishing the NZ Forest Service and hocking off our production forests.
    
    4 0
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    February 18, 2020 7:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Our Prime Minister supports her Deputy unreservedly
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20200218_20200218_04
10 0
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February 18, 2020 3:04pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Of course she does, she`d be unemployed and unemployable if she didn`t.
  
  10 2
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  February 18, 2020 3:42pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    NO Labour, Green and most of NZF MPs are employable outside Parliament on anything about the av salary.
    
    They can only get a salary like that if they are employed by someone like Greenpeace, Forest and Bird or some NGO.
    
    8 2
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    February 18, 2020 5:05pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  In a fair and just world they would go down together.
  
  9 2
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  February 18, 2020 4:09pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    They would or will go down together?
    
    6 1
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    February 18, 2020 4:53pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Jacinda will go down in history.
  
  6 0
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  February 18, 2020 5:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Selected, not elected
  
  5 1
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  February 18, 2020 6:18pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/119575877/chinese-ambassador-hits-out-at-new-zealand-travel-ban-in-response-to-novel-coronavirus-outbreak

Stuff the Chinese.
5 3
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February 18, 2020 6:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Donald J Trump was driving ‘the beast’ 10 ton Cadillac and won the Daytona 500.
Fake News?
Well if the leftist Media can bullshit, so can I
6 3
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February 18, 2020 6:23pm
MrTips

3 of the 4 people going to court on Tues over the SFO charges relating to Nat party donations want name suppression lifted.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12309703

Interesting move. Motives will become clear in due course.
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February 18, 2020 8:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh dear,
we’ve lost two of our trolls for the next wee while.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/02/call_for_conservative_government_to_start_appointing_conservatives.html/comment-page-1#comment-2645487

How will we cope without their abuse and smears?
7 0
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February 18, 2020 8:33pm
- Biscuit
  
  I worry, Maggy…
  
  But I’m willing to give it a try, heh heh!
  
  2 0
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  February 18, 2020 10:15pm
- Harriet
  
  The original milkenmild never got abusive, we disagreed on everything and argued a lot but he always remained civil. We actually wished each other a good xmas for a couple of years.
  Maybe he now takes things a bit more personally, or maybe just with DG – DG doesn’t abuse anyone, he defends his name and character etc. but that’s fair enough.
  MM2 maybe someone different, but again I wouldn’t know.
  
  1 0
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  February 18, 2020 11:43pm
Hugh Pavletich

HSBC to axe 35,000 jobs in sweeping overhaul … UK Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/02/18/hsbc-announces-pre-tax-profits-drop-third-133-billion/

The bank has been hit by the US-China trade war, Brexit and now the deadly new coronavirus in China … read more via hyperlink above …
2 0
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February 18, 2020 8:49pm
Hugh Pavletich

Kerry Group sees 30% coronavirus hit to China Q1 revenue … Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/article/china-health-kerry-group-results/kerry-group-sees-30-coronavirus-hit-to-china-q1-revenue-idUSL8N2AI2UN

DUBLIN, Feb 18 (Reuters) – Irish food ingredients multinational Kerry Group on Tuesday warned its revenue in China was likely to be down 30% in the first three months of the year due to the coronavirus outbreak.

That is equivalent to around 0.5% of global revenue in its core Taste & Nutrition unit, which earned over 80% of its global revenues of 7.2 billion euros, Chief Executive Officer Edmond Scanlon told analysts in a conference call.

Kerry’s five manufacturing facilities in China are working with a skeleton staff and the firm was monitoring the situation closely, Scanlon said. … read more via hyperlink above …
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February 19, 2020 12:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

Yikes,

Looks like Ghandi is being trashed in India
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/17/mahatma-gandhis-killer-venerated-as-hindu-nationalism-resurges-in-india
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January 18, 2021 11:36am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  oh, woops..
  Gandhi: The nonviolent road to spelling reform?https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0010027784900052
  
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  January 18, 2021 11:41am

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