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September 19, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 September 2021

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General Debate

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Warren

Finance Minister Grant Robertson urged to spend Covid Fund on strictly Coronavirus issues as it gets a $7 billion top up.
After being caught out already over the last six months of using money from the COVID-19 fund , as a example to fund Camera’s on fishing trawlers and school lunches opposition Parties say this needs to stop and only should be used for Covid related issues.
Grant Robertson says NZ 2.8% economic growth is outperforming many of the country’s we compare ourselves against dispite the COVID-19 Pandemic, which has given the Government confidence to borrow more.
Ministers have decided to use the greater fiscal headroom to top up the COVID-19 response and recovery fund by a extra $7 billion. The $7 billion top up comes a week after Robertson was granted authority by Parliament to spend up to $41 billion over and above Budget 2021 as a contingency for “Unexpected Expenditure “.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/finance-minister-grant-robertson-urged-to-spend-covid-19-fund-on-strictly-coronavirus-issues-as-it-gets-7-billion-topup.html
When will this Country and its population wake up to this Government and its willingness to leave future Generations to come a debt of more than a $ 140 billion through incompetence and the need for power without thinking of the consequences.
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September 19, 2021 8:00am
- trout
  
  Question: Are the ‘economic growth figures’ a reflection of billions of borrowed dollars being flushed through the economy? Note that Government spending is included in the GDP numbers.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:54am
- Cinematic
  
  This debt fuelled economic growth is a mirage.
  
  Anyone with a basic understanding of economics will know this. Grant knows it but is willing to misrepresent things to further his party’s ideology.
  
  It has the potential to collapse horribly in on itself.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:59am
  - PhilBest
    
    Don’t worry, “The Great Reset” is already there waiting for when the inevitable end-game of double-down debt/QE fueled “stimulus” arrives, worldwide. Klaus Schwab and his mates have got our backs, relax.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:03am
  - Bob
    
    Grant knows it…..
    Highly unlikely that Grant ‘knows this’; even if he does, he certainly doesn’t understand the ramifications of what he and Ardern are doing to the economy and our grandchildren’s future lifestyle and standard of living.
    
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    September 19, 2021 2:59pm
  - Mongo
    
    I looked in vain for comments reflecting that view from you during English’s era .Nothing ,nada ,zilch zero.You really do need to learn how to spell hypocrite .
    
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    September 19, 2021 4:15pm
    - Bob
      
      Mongo, if your comment at 4.15 pm is aimed at me; you are barking up the wrong tree.
      I wasn’t contributing during the English era.
      I suggest that you go out to the café in Fraser House basement and make yourself a strong coffee!
      
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      September 19, 2021 8:13pm
- Nickc2
  
  Don’t believe a word Robertson says. IMO, he’s full of shit. If our economy is doing so well, how come the lying bastard borrowed/printed another $41Bn to pay for stuff?
  I believe we’re currently in debt to the tune of around $100Bn. most of which will have to be repaid by our offspring and their offspring.
  BTW, hows are our Free Trade Agreements going with the US and Britain? NOT eh?
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:00am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Sorry Nickc2 down ticked in error. I totally agree
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:13am
    - Nickc2
      
      Forgiven.
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:23am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Warren bro – The unwashed (which includes traitors and I won’t repeat who fit in traitor category) only read 2.8% GDP growth. They say we are doing exceptionally well due to economic wizards Cindy and Robber(tson). Game over for Judith and National.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:22am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Yep – right on the money
    
    I guess I’m one of your “traitors” though. Currently the govt is giving me $2,000 a week to stay at home and do nothing
    
    Meanwhile my overseas venture is doing very nicely and the house I live in (trust-owned) has increased in value by about 50% in 4 years
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:41am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Why else would Cindy invite Ribbo to talk about the economy at the Podium…?
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:46am
- JackRabbit
  
  Grant Robertson says NZ 2.8% economic growth is outperforming many of the country’s we compare ourselves against dispite the COVID-19 Pandemic, which has given the Government confidence to borrow more.
  
  Totally incorrect. After Labour took over in 2017, the rate of growth of our GDP plummeted like a stone, reaching -1.57% in 2019.
  
  https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/NZL/new-zealand/gdp-growth-rate
  
  Any apparency that that New Zealand has economic growth is on ‘paper’ dollar figures only, thanks to Grant’s ‘virtual money printing presses’ running 24/7. Hyper inflation caused by printing of money, increases prices while decreasing real value.
  
  Grant has caught the same ‘disease’ that spread through the Weimar Republic after the first world war. This serious ‘disease’ results in the severe delusion that you can get out of debt and fix a broken economy by simply printing more money. And when things get worse, they keep printing more and more money.
  
  https://www.businessinsider.com.au/weimar-germany-hyperinflation-explained-2013-9
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:29am
  - Prince
    
    Interesting how Labour voters now tote GDP as a measure of how well we are doing.
    Back in the ‘wellbeing budget’ era GDP was scorned as an inaccurate measure of success, and we were encouraged to think of poverty, homelessness, inequality, mental health, as better measures of Government progress.
    Funny how these have dropped by the wayside and it’s all GDP now.
    Plus ca change…
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:35am
  - Paulus
    
    Well done Grant and Cindy – our house, which we own, is increasing in sales value by something like $4,000 to $5,000 a weeks, tax free.
    Why should I work ?
    What the hell do you think you are doing ?
    
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    September 19, 2021 1:31pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Quarterly growth to June 21 was 2.8%. Which is fine. But that follows a list of quarterly growth figures that were negative. So, we’ve printed money hand over fist, inflation is heading up (and no, it won’t be transitory, that’s just a big lie out of America) we are starting to recover, so we spend more. What utter muppets. Grant Robertson can barely balance a cheque book let alone run the finances of a country.
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:03am
  - Mongo
    
    Yeh Yeh there was Joyces 9$Billion faux pas and then Goldsmiths howler .Will you guys with piss poor memories please stop embarrasing yourselves .Yous is bringing knives to a gunfight.
    
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    September 19, 2021 4:24pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      “Yous?’
      when it comes to pronouncing Te Reo Maori, I have noticed the lowest intelligence voices of all lamenting, poor Maori pronunciation, make use of ‘yous’.
      And yet you spell it, as might be spoken, so wearing the badge of extremely poor intelligence and knowledge deliberately.
      Well done, thicko!
      
      And by the way, ALWAYS bring a knife to a gun fight.
      A gun can miss, a gun can jam, a gun can run out of ammunition.
      You come to this battle of wits unarmed.
      
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      September 19, 2021 9:57pm
- surfing
  
  “Grant Robertson says NZ 2.8% economic growth”
  
  It is the drivers behind economic growth that really matter.
  
  Debt fuelled growth is terrible. Productivity powered growth is good. And, of course, we should be talking per capita numbers in real terms too.
  
  Grant Robertson’s growth is debt fuelled.
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:18am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Grant Robertson says NZ 2.8% economic growth…
  
  Where did Pooh Bah get that number from? I’m seeing businesses in distress or failing all over the place because of the lockdowns including the consequences. Are they counting the govts’ subsidies among the business income?
  Borrow, hope and explode.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:20pm
- peterwn
  
  Just look on this $7B as Labour’s 2023 re-election fund.
  
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  September 19, 2021 3:46pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    No thank you.
    
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    September 19, 2021 5:55pm
CJames

What ever happened to the last and current Government’s great plan to eliminate the road death toll? Remember how they weren’t going to build new roads, but fix existing ones to make them safer. This was by lowering speed limits and putting in median and side barriers. Arnco barriers for Africa stuff. No mention of fixing potholes or bad intersections.
The Minister has been missing in action for some months now. Are they also on witless protection? NZTA goes from press release to press release without achieving anything apart from trying to demand they are known by their Maori name. And the road toll has got continued to get worse. Still lots of fatals in Auckland, where no-one is supposed to be driving more than 5km.
I gather we can chalk this up as another government “success” story. Where are the press on this story – oh thats right, they are hanging out for wedding invites. Have the government actually got anything right?
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September 19, 2021 8:00am
- all true
  
  These clowns in the BS Tower so far have only done something right – generating buck loads of hot air and wasting the taxpayer’s money in a great rate.
  And the sad story in this all, is the 50% over agree with these clowns and so therefore 50% over must be the apprentices of these clowns.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:05am
- Waipuk
  
  Around the country the open road limited is progressively being lowered to 80 km.
  
  Years ago I read a couple of different studies about the speed limit reduced. With both the road toll went up. They put it down to people getting bored looking more at the scenery than the road.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:31am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Only an fool would think that in the year 2021 given the advances in automotive technology that the way to reduce the road toll is to reduce the speed limit. Much of the roading in New Zealand was outdated by European standards in the middle of the last century. There are hundreds of kms state highways that would not be classed as B roads in the UK however they are supposed to service a modern fleet of commercial and private vehicles. It’s the roads that are the problem.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:26am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Look beyond…
      
      Generally best fuel efficiency is achieved at c.50-55mph…
      
      Which just happens to be 80-85kmh
      
      More government nudging in the name of climate change
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:44am
      - Paulus
        
        And I read that the Climate Change conference with our Wonder Green Shaw Minister, and his huge entourage, is attracting 20,000 people to the Glasgow conference next week.
        
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        September 19, 2021 1:35pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      I agree with that! And don’t accept the excuse that we have a small population with difficult terrain. Just go to Sardinia. A fraction of our population yet four lane highways between all major towns. Very rugged country.
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:00am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Yup. I’ve driven all over Sardinia. Great roads. First place I’d seen road signs used for target practice 🙂
        
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        September 19, 2021 2:46pm
      - gtdriver
        
        Come on bro, to the best of my knowledge there are no expensive earthquakes or Taniwhas to appease in the working drawings for roading in Sardinia…
        
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        September 21, 2021 10:04pm
    - surfing
      
      I’d support a nationwide roading modernisation project, dual carriageways connecting major cities.
      
      Start with Auckland -> Wellington, and picton to invercargill.
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:24am
      - artemisia
        
        Sounds like a plan, but suggest include future proofing with a separate route for road trains, including self driving.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:17pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It would take a generation to reduce road crashes here. Seems to be two problems.
  
  Too many poor quality roads where mistakes result in fatal outcomes.
  
  Too many poor drivers.
  
  Before we got locked up I did a lot of driving in Australia. Both in cities and on long road trips. The overall standard of driving in Australia is noticibky higher than in New Zealand. Plus they have better roads. Hence fewer accidents.
  
  These are some of the behaviours I see in New Zealand that are way less prevalent in Australia.
  
  Poor driving on motorways. Slower drivers sitting in the right hand lane.
  
  Poor merging skills.
  
  Aggressive driving and unsafe following distances.
  
  Not turning headlights on in poor light conditions.
  
  Inconsiderate behaviour. Slow drivers failing to pull over to let others pass.
  
  Crazy and probably drug fuelled driving by young males in urban areas.
  
  …. Until the police focus on these causes of harm nothing will change.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:36am
  - Weetbix3ways
    
    But it’s always a result of going too fast, dontcha know?
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:00am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    This made me laugh, Australia has its fair share of idiots, son drives a 40 ton truck carries packaged milk, stuck for hours north of Brisbane last night, a ten year old had caused 4 car fatal pile up. The standard of driving here varies considerably from state to state, the regional roads are massively worse than New Zealand. I take the gravel instead of the bitumen on one route as better surface.
    Zero road deaths are like zero Flu deaths, just a thought bubble someone has had.
    You will not eliminate idiots, talk to any truck driver they sit and watch dozens of them a day.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:08am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Is there any actual data that indicates drivers in NZ behave more poorly in comparison with Australian states?
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:11am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      There is data that shows there is less road harm in Australia. Data on “behavior” would be difficult to compile. My views are based on driving 150,000 km in New Zealand since I arrived and about 30,000 km in Australia while living there and on subsequent visits.
      
      If you have a different view I’d like to hear it.
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:25am
      - Cassandra
        
        Agree, Benedict. I’ve driven extensively in both countries, too. Driving and roads much better in Oz. Fair share of idiots, of course, but one should not forget where the 501s come from, which might explain some of them.
        
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        September 19, 2021 11:09am
      - PhilBest
        
        Observant, thinking people who have had a range of experience outside of NZ, ALL seem to say that NZ has an unusually high proportion of brain-dead drivers. Take the length of time for a queue to get going when a red traffic light goes green. I would love to see comparative data between nations and cities on this.
        
        I’d also advocate emergency vehicles, ambulances, fire engines etc being fitted with some kind of camera and detection gear that reports vehicles that don’t get out of their way. I’d bet that NZ has an unusually bad incidence of this too. These drivers need to get sent a much fatter ticket than what mere speedsters get.
        
        I’d also suspect that many of these drivers regard themselves as the epitome of safety because they drive slow, and regard themselves as contibuting to the cause of safety by obstructing other and forcing them to also drive slow, the slower the better (the speed limit is “not a target”, they will piously inform you).
        
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        September 19, 2021 11:10am
      - Alwynn
        
        Current figures for deaths per hundred thousand inhabitants are about 4.1 for Australia and 7.1 for New Zealand. I believe that people drive larger distances than here so the result in Australia is even more impressive.
        I lived in Australia (Melbourne) for about 7 years about 25 years ago. During that time we did large distances including going right round Australia.
        Since then we have gone back to Australia, until Covid 10 hit, at least once a year.
        My experience is that drivers there are much more attentive to their surroundings, at least in the major cities. If you want to change lanes you can indicate, 3 flashes, and then change lanes. People will let you in to the new lane. In New Zealand, until recently, they either wouldn’t see what you wanted to do or they would and then speed up to stop you moving into “their” lane.
        Over the last five years or so things seem to have changed in Auckland. Drivers there have got much better. Sad to say that hasn’t happened anywhere else in New Zealand. I think it is simply the realisation that Auckland is getting larger. It isn’t a big city but it is large enough that drivers have to take note of what other drivers are doing.
        Auckland isn’t like Sydney or Melbourne of course but it is comparable to the second tier cities like Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. Like them people have to get used to the fact that there are a lot of other people on the roads.
        The main roads in Western Australia are the most interesting. North of Perth, heading toward Broome, there is a lot of multi-lane roads and even the simple one lane each way roads are very wide. That is to allow for the 55 metre long road trains. The tail can swing in quite a wide arc and the roads have to wide enough to allow for it.
        The same is true for the Perth-Adelaide and Adelaide-Darwin routes. A Road Train is a very impressive beast when you first meet, and pass, one.
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:39pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        My views are based mostly on watching Australian dashcam compilations on youtube.
        
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        September 19, 2021 1:40pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Yes but you have to make some assumptions
      
      Deaths per 100,000 vehicles
      NZ: 10
      Aus: 7.4
      
      Avge mileage
      NZ: 10,000
      Auz: 13,000
      
      Crudely put, you can add 30% to the NZ number for deaths per 100,000 vehicle (or take 30% off the Aus no) which gives you deaths per billion km driven of
      
      NZ: 7.2 (actual)
      Aus: 5.2 (calculated)
      
      TL:DR NZ road deaths are approx 38% worse than Aus
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:49pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Thanks for that. Can you also factor into the equation the affordability of decent roads (Australia is at least 25% wealthier than NZ) and actual data on different driver behaviour?
        
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        September 19, 2021 2:56pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I don;t know – is there? Why not have a look yourself?
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:39pm
  - ecco
    
    Another characteristic of NZ roads is the prevalence of police cars and speed cameras positioned on reasonably safe roads/ motorways that are there solely to catch people and ensure they meet their revenue targets. Meanwhile there are no cops around in areas where there are unsafe/juvenile drivers who end up in crashes. Probably because there’s not as much revenue to be gathered in those areas…
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:40am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Should re-brand these guys as IRD.
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:04am
  - Southern Raider
    
    The thing you notice driving in Australia is they actually know how to do roading projects.
    
    Drive from Melbourne to Canberra, there is bugger all vehicles but 4 lane interstate. When I went from Sydney to Brisbane they had about 6 huge motorway projects happening all in a parallel fashion. Not the NZ one stage every 10 years approach.
    
    Doesn’t forgive though when you have to drive into Sydney from the North or South and basically spend 1 hour on residential roads dodging parked cars and endless traffic lights.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:48am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I don’t know which way you drive south of Sydney. I drove from Sydney Airport to Canberra without encountering a set of traffic lights. And IIRC you can drive from Sydney Airport to Melbourne some 800 km without encountering any traffic lights.
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:28am
      - Alwynn
        
        Try Darwin to Alice Springs. You are on standard 2 lane roads, not motorways, and there is, or at least was the last time I did it, ONE traffic light in Katherine. It is a 1500 km trip.
        About 300 km of the road has no speed limit. Here is a quote from the NT Government about this piece of the road.
        “Over the past 10 years, there has not been a single speed-related fatality on this stretch of road.”
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:48pm
  - rockape
    
    You forgot failure to signal correctly. I have never seen less or worse signalling, even from NZ police cars.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:48am
    - PhilBest
      
      People who hang a hard right at roundabouts without signalling are the worst.
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:11am
  - Dr John
    
    I totally agree Benedict.
    As much as it hurts me to say this, Australian drivers are more considerate and careful drivers than NZ ones. Maybe because the penalties for poor driving would make your eyes water – like $1000 fine in some states for talking on the phone while driving.
    And I say this with a wee bit of experience – we have completed the ‘Big Lap’ around Australia in our RAM and caravan. And, apart from a $300 fine for not giving way at a roundabout [at a speed of about 10 kph] an unblemished record!
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:51am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Maybe it’s because the smiling zombies can release their repressed emotions once they are safely cocooned behind the wheel.
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:32am
  - surfing
    
    I’m not sure aussies are better drivers… i think it has more to do with the roads being better.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:24am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      You can count the number of “dangerous” roads in NZ on the fingers of one foot
      
      Drive to the condition of the road that you’re on and no road is “unsafe”
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:53pm
  - MCos
    
    I’ll think you’ll find there are few fatal accidents on the motorways.
    Almost all accidents are caused by bad driving; it stands to reason.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:28am
    - Ed Snack
      
      I think that is true, two lane divided highways are far safer as with horrifying exceptions, head-ons are eliminated. Good example is around Mercer South of Auckland, used to be the scene of regular fatal accidents, but with the motorway introduction, there are very few accidents at all now.
      
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      September 19, 2021 12:54pm
  - Bob
    
    The Police are far to busy at the Covid borders attending to much more important matters.
    
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    September 19, 2021 3:04pm
  - oc35
    
    Well said BY
    
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    September 19, 2021 8:30pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “The Minister has been missing in action for some months now.”
  
  It seems that for some months all current Ministers have been either MIA or put into witless protection unless statements have got something to do with covid/health or Local Body control.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:54am
  - Cinematic
    
    Yes but the problem is we’re still paying these inept politicians. For doing not much that I can see. Whilst businesses of hardworking talented kiwis crumble because they’re literally not allowed to go to work.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:11am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Agree – their staff get reasonably covered via the wage subsidy whilst many small businesses themselves get relatively little help from the RSP due to having significantly different wage/fixed overhead ratios compared to large business. Also fast lockdowns that drag on, like the current one, can exacerbate many of the small businesses cash flow through the loss effect of being caught with perishable stocks which isn’t really covered. The lockdown effect is also cumulative and it’s becoming evident that ongoing viability is becoming an issue which is being reflected in bank attitudes towards these businesses.
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:21am
    - Mongo
      
      Yes yes but we are slowly weeding them out .The Nats are down to 28 and following the last curia poll trending lower.They sure as hell are an endangered species .Any way you only have to look a the the specimen’s they have been putting up for election to see that they really have no right to survival.
      
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      September 19, 2021 3:51pm
  - kowtow
    
    MIA or just AWOL.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:27am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Take your pick 🙂 🙂 – either fits!
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:23am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Well the answer to your question “have they got anything right” is no – and yes.
  
  No, in that no policy that they have implemented has achieved its objectives; on the contrary, many of the problems they have sought to address have got substantially worse.
  
  Yes, in that they managed to be in government at the right time to be the recipients of not one but two galactically massive sacks of electoral gold, ie the Christchurch attack and covid. This is pure luck, but unfortunately luck is a huge factor in politics and in this case it is so huge that it is easily able to eclipse everything under the “no” paragraph. Everything that has got worse can be simply ascribed to covid, because this is easy to explain and understand. On the other hand, making the case that government policies are responsible for exacerbating or not solving the problems, or that National would have dealt with Christchurch just as well and covid better – requires grasping complexity and detail which just turns most listeners straight off.
  
  This is a really rough hand that poor old Judith has been dealt, and it is difficult to see that Jesus Christ (substitute anybody whose name is to you a byword for miraculous powers) would stand any chance of making anything of it. It’s desperately sad for New Zealand, but it does seem that for the foreseeable future actual competence in government is going to count for nothing election-wise and government incompetence is going to become the norm.
  
  Oh well! At least we’ll make for an interesting case study for political scientists in years to come.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:56am
  - artemisia
    
    Yes luck, but it was obvious at the 2017 election that the new leader was working well. Bit of stardust flaking off now, plus it’s a tough job even with all those PR staff. She will have plenty of other opportunities.
    
    The next leader will be Grant Robertson. He doesn’t have the same electoral heft, and if he takes over as PM before or after the 2023 election he will be in charge of fixing what he primarily has created. Double no fun. Karma.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:30am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Indeed; but he will still be able to say it was covid, not him, that got us into this trouble.
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:31am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I can almost guarantee it will still be ‘nine years of neglect’ rather than the ‘six years of incompetence ‘
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:32pm
    - Paulus
      
      Nah !
      Unions will not have him.
      Has to be another woman anyway.
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:38pm
  - Bob
    
    interesting case study for political scientists….
    and Economics students studying financial decisions cause and effect 101
    
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    September 19, 2021 3:06pm
- jedmo
  
  Driving from Nelson to Blenheim, used to be a simple common sense open road drive. 100kph but caution on the twistier bits. Now it feels like being in playschool with a different speed zone every 5km of the highway seemingly, mind distracted from the driving, by trying to monitor all the stupid changes in allowable speeds.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:02am
  - krazykiwi
    
    This drive has been ruined by the wowsers. Playschool is a good description
    
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    September 19, 2021 2:51pm
- Nickc2
  
  There are too many bikes on the fucking road with lunatics on them!
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:06am
- Ruawai
  
  So many potholes and poorly surfaced roads in Franklin area, much worse in last few years.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:46pm
greybeard

Sharon Murdoch continues her barrage of venom against Judith Collins.
This tells us more about Sharon Murdoch’s character than Judith’s.
Vicious. Spiteful. Sad.
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September 19, 2021 8:05am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Who’s Sharon Murdoch?
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:08am
  - DenisPurdy
    
    She has been the main political cartoonist for various newspapers related to Stuff for years. She was one of the many reasons, we stopped delivery of The DomPost.
    She has been voted NZ cartoonist of year multiple times by NZ ‘journalists’ which says a lot about their utter uselessness.
    One cartoon that I became aware of, after we cut off the DP, showed David Seymour with Hitler and a KKK person. It was the vilest, nastiest, most despicable piece of political slander I have ever seen.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:58am
- Paulus
  
  Who is Sharon Murdoch please !
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:09am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Don’t bother trying to find out. She’s the most vile, biased, vindictive ‘cartoonist’ in the Western World.
    And she can’t even draw.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:48am
- igm
  
  Don’t overlook the fact your taxes as diverted to pay for this anti-National crap.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:21am
  - ecco
    
    I found this article itemising where the media bribe fund had gone https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300279296/covid19-the-government-media-bailout–who-got-what
    
    A pity the Labour government doesn’t earmark $55 million to help out Auckland small businesses about to go bust if the vice like, and unnecessary, level 4 lockdown does not get lifted next week. It sure would save more people’s livelihoods than throwing it at the nz media to write nice things about Ardern and nasty things about Collins. Nz media truly descending into the gutter press that you see in the UK tabloids.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:57am
- RockyJ
  
  I look forward to the debates between Judith and Jacinda at the next election. In two years the press will still be predicting that Judith will be rolled next week.
  It’s a lot like predictions of climate catastrophe where the media announce that the irreversible tipping point will be “next year”. As they have been predicting for the last 40 years.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:22am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I’m hoping the debates will be between Seymour and Ardern.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:09am
- kowtow
  
  Same , again today from the Sunday Ferald , another anti Collins cartoon.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:28am
- jedmo
  
  It also tells us about her Editor’s view of their readers. Cartoons for simpletons.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:05am
  - kowtow
    
    You’d begin to wonder who they’re trying to impress , the punters who consume their product or their pay masters on the Ninth Floor .
    
    We do know there’s a weekly call between 9th floor and the kommissars at the news outlets who used to be called political editors.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Vicious. Spiteful. Sad.
  
  Whereas only two of those descriptors seem applicable to Collins.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:13am
  - marcw
    
    Looking in your mirror again mike?
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:58am
  - kowtow
    
    All three could just as easily be applied to the Prime Mangler .
    
    But $55 million buys a lot of compliance , and deflection to the Opposition.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:17am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    I felt it was more a synopsis of 90% of your comments over the last couple years Mike.
    
    Maybe you should join HOBM seniors for after matches… They would blow you sad and sarky nature away
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:29am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Generally only go for the bigger matches and just walk around the ground – it’s a lovely place for fresh air, exercise and dogs. Gave up binge drinking in the club rooms many years ago.
      
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      September 19, 2021 2:58pm
  - dcrane
    
    More like 0 out of 3 if you’re honest.
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:15pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Did your controller contact you to make sure you put in your bit of nasty and spiteful comment Mikey ?
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:57pm
- Prince
  
  Does Stuff ever consider their cartoonists show zero opinion diversity ? Do they ever think about doing something to correct it ?
  
  Or is ‘diversity’ just something you say to justify more left wing drivel.
  
  And you’re right Greybeard, that cartoon is actually very nasty and personal. What happened to the much-vaunted kindness and concern for other’s mental health ?
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:27am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    What happened to the much-vaunted kindness and concern for other’s mental health ?
    
    It is the fall-back position for those who abuse.
    
    They can’t run with the racist jibe at Judith.
    (How many middle-class white women in NZ have a Samoan-Chinese husband)
    
    They can’t run with the dumb-blond
    (Judith holds a Bachelor of Laws, Master of Laws with (Honours) and a Master of Taxation Studies from the University of Auckland. Judith has recently earned a Graduate Diploma in Occupational Health & Safety (GradDipOHS) from Massey University. She has completed an Executive Education Program at the Harvard Kennedy School in Leadership Decision Making.)
    
    They can’t call her lazy, or a drunk, so they end up with the old chestnut – she’s nuts.
    
    Happens time and time again, doesn’t it?
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:12am
    - Cinematic
      
      Yes JC is despised by most in the msm whilst Jacinda is given a status waaaaay beyond that which she has earned.
      
      Outside of carving a successful ‘political image’ what is it that Jacinda has achieved? By achievement I mean something tangible that requires sacrifice and persistent hard work.
      
      All show no go is not something I want my children to aspire to.
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:42am
    - oldfella
      
      Yeah, Maggy, but Judith hasn’t got a Bachelor of Communication Studies (BCS) in politics and public relations. That takes a real brainy woman to earn something like that, not like those things Judith hangs on her wall. ///s
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:46am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Case in point
      ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️
      ‘mikenmildagain
      
      Vicious. Spiteful. Sad.
      
      Whereas only two of those descriptors seem applicable to Collins
      September 19, 2021 9:13AM’
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:51am
      - Cinematic
        
        Yep, feral left or right will always play the person not the ball.
        
        I see a powerful achiever when I look at JC and I’m not personally challenged by that as clearly many are.
        
        Jacinda plays a narrow role very well but is not an achiever beyond that.
        
        I believe she failed to advance a single bill whilst in opposition? That is the mark of a person with very little aspiration and a light work ethic.
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Do you think the comment that this journalist was vicious, spiteful and sad was also an example of playing the person rather than the ball?
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:01pm
    - Mongo
      
      Yes yes but we are slowly weeding them out .The Nats are down to 28 and following the last curia poll trending lower.They sure as hell are an endangered species .Any way you only have to look a the the specimen’s they have been putting up for election to see that they really have no right to survival.
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:04pm
- redeye
  
  I look at the Stuff cartoon most mornings and I do not remember one single cartoon poking fun at the Prime Minister.
  This must surely be a first for any newspaper in any democracy.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:50am
  - kowtow
    
    As pointed out by many , now that we live in a country where there is a paid for and supine media ( it’s called the 4 th estate as it has a special place in a democracy ) we are no longer a true democracy in the most open definition of the word .
    
    We now display many of the signs of a soft totalitarian, authoritarian regime .
    
    A paid for , controlled, self censoring media , an electorate who is no longer properly informed of the real issues of the day , a parliamentary majority that has no effective checks and balances and an “emergency” being used to proscribe our ancient rights and liberties.
    
    And when we eventually get out of covid they have another emergency for us that is running parallel to this one , climate catastrophe.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:23am
  - All_on_Red
    
    You should enjoy this quite appropriate cartoon then
    https://nopunchespulled.com/2021/09/18/another-brilliant-tremain-cartoon/
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:36am
  - oldfella
    
    redeye, it was the ODT’s loss when they decided Garrick Tremain was too ‘un-woke’ for their sensitive readers. Now there’s someone who understands what it is to be a serious political cartoonist.
    https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/cartoon-of-the-day-52
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:49am
    - oldfella
      
      And just to show how embarrassingly pathetic our local cartoonists are, check out this week’s collection from the US.
      https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/09/the-week-in-pictures-met-gala-edition.php
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:51am
      - Papalazarou
        
        Thank you oldfella – these are my favourite start to the week.
        
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        September 19, 2021 6:57pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      That’s at least a reasonable cartoon (speaking truth to power and all that), but no where near enough slobbering to be remotely realistic.
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:00pm
- Hapuku
  
  Sharon Murdoch must be the unfunniest cartoonist in NZ. Cartoons are meant to have an element of humour in them but this requirement seems to have passed poor Sharon by.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:44am
gorse

Yet another of the endless Judith bashing cartoons in Stuff today. Is this non stop attack on a single political party becoming criminal?
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September 19, 2021 8:05am
- kowtow
  
  Same with NZME . It is literally across the board , so much so you’d wonder if it’s orchestrated .
  
  It’s as if the media is owned by the Labour Party …….oh wait , it’s called the Public Interest Journalism Fund or Project Pravda if you prefer.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:27am
  - oldfella
    
    kowtow, here’re the details of what you need to do to apply. Go all in for the TOW, or go away is how I interpret it.
    https://d3r9t6niqlb7tz.cloudfront.net/media/documents/210429_PIJF_General_Guidelines_f4RtoKG_cRdUBNy_cLXUAKM.pdf
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:57am
Maggy Wassilieff

Professor Gluckman thinks some tough decisions need to be taken.

It is much more challenging to ‘open up’ than ‘close down’.

I think we are in for some tough years ahead, because good decisions are not being made.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/peter-gluckman-beyond-science
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September 19, 2021 8:07am
- Frank the tank
  
  One trick ponies ride their one trick for all it is worth. The Blairite will be using “ restrictions” for the next 4 years of her terms or until focus groups and polling tell her otherwise.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:14am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  I agree we are in for some really tough times because we have a government comprised of student politicians who know everything in theory but nothing in practice.
  However until the ladies of NZ have lost their second home, SUV or ability to get their lashes done we are stuck with a shiny hood ornament on what is a rapidly disintegrating vehicle.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:16am
  - JamesP
    
    The problem with your analogy is that if NZ were a car it wouldn’t be a Ferrari or Mustang.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:22am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      If NZ was a car it would be a Trabant.
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:00am
      - Nickc2
        
        with rear vision mirrors on the boot (looking backward to go forward). This kind of describes the He Puapua Plan/Report.
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:02pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        A bit better, maybe a pre-VW Skoda, one of the rear engined ones. Or possibly a Trekka ?
        
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        September 19, 2021 1:13pm
    - oldfella
      
      James, more a rusty old Ford Zephyr 6. Hot old car back in the day, bro.
      I once owned the lesser 4 cylinder version which I remember being badged as a Zodiac, but Google says a Zodiac was an upmarket Zephyr. Not mine. Anyone here set me straight?
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:07am
      - greybeard
        
        6-cylinder = Zephyr
        4-cylinder = Consul
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:00pm
      - CJames
        
        Zodiac was the upmarket one – Consul was the 4 cylinder engine in the Zephyr body. All the Zephyrs and Zodiacs were 6 cylinders. The Mk 4 was supposed to have a V8 but it was never fitted, that was why they had the spare wheel at the front, to hide the massive gap.
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:08pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        With the Mk3, the Consul became the Zephyr 4 and the Zephyr became the Zephyr 6. Zodiac became even more upmarket from the Zephyr 6.
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:15pm
      - oldfella
        
        Thanks greybeard, CJ and Capt for setting me straight: I remember now it was a 4 cylinder Consul. 🙂
        
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        September 19, 2021 1:49pm
      - Joe Hunt
        
        Sounds like you had a Mk 1 Consul oldfella, no noise and no grunt, only 4 cylinders. I had a 56 Mk1 Zephyr back in my day, if you wanted to pull the chicks you needed the 6 cylinder models, you were top dog if you had a MK1 Zo-dee. I bought a Mk1 Consul when I got married.
        
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        September 19, 2021 6:31pm
- Ra Henare
  
  What Gluckman is proposing, as I understand it.
  
  Is an independent review “”red team”” based on the Simon Bridges led committee from March April 2020.
  
  I can only applaud the formation of such a team to publish facts and stop giving everything a political spin and to stop the Daily bout of propaganda at 1pm.
  
  Maybe the Swedish decision making model could be used. NO politicians involved.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:19am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    So, decisions to be made by people with no democratic accountability?
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:35am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Not decisions maybe, but possibly good unpolitical advice ?
      
      Fresh eyes can sometimes see what is in plain sight but cannot be acknowledged because of the political “sunk cost” fallacy ?
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:22pm
- RockyJ
  
  There is a ticking clock- the race to get all of us vaccinated versus the race to build and staff hospital ICU units (which have been completely neglected in the last 18 months) versus the public’s ability to tolerate lockdowns.
  The government has left action too late. Unfortunately I think the virus will win.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:25am
  - Okahu
    
    Except you’re wrong. It’s not a versus it’s a both.
    
    And then you’re wrong again because if you look at the stats that are publicly available you will see that our vaccine use has followed a trajectory entirely consistent with availability. That has been further enhanced by the recent acquisition of vaccines not from the manufacturer but nations with a surplus.
    
    Please feel free to tell us what you know about how we could have had more earlier. It’s a request that falls on deaf ears here at Kiwiblog, It’s almost as if people want to believe it’s a ‘stroll out’ so that’s what they tell each other af infinitum, but sans evidence. Bizarre.
    
    Then there is your oft repeated bullshit about nothing being done to ready ourselves for a significant outbreak. The attachment below suggest when you repeat this bullshit it is making it clear to all you have no need for the truth such as you are happy to distribute mis truths. I suppose if that makes you feel wanted…
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-information-health-professionals/covid-19-advice-all-health-professionals#ventilators
    
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    September 19, 2021 3:47pm
- Cinematic
  
  Reminds me of a talented super qualified (compared to our, ahem, experts) epidemiologist from Sweden.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:47am
- Yvette
  
  “I can’t put a number on it… no minister’s going to say ‘this number of deaths’ is ever acceptable,” said Little. “What we do need to do is make sure we have a response that manages outbreaks as best as possible and minimises the risk of harm, including fatality, to people as a consequence of any future outbreak.”
  
  How about 29 deaths? While performing this morning’s ablutions – what “came down with the last shower”: I wondered ‘What is the difference?’
  Government safety inspector numbers, corporate (ir)responsibility and other factors are blamed for the Pike River disaster, but then the miners – themselves a vital ‘starship” position in the safety chain, and supposedly those to initially recognise problems at the coal face – also had responsibilities.
  
  So perhaps the same with covid. Even under Treaty considerations (as some have already alluded to) the Government can make “protection” available – vaccination: the only option they have at present (plus reinforcing social distancing, and hygiene, and perhaps mask-wearing) – but it is up to the individual to make a personal choice. Except for those who for various reasons, like impaired immune system, have no choice.
  
  It is another reason, I would suggest, as Maggy Wassilieff does. to skim through the article “Sir Peter Gluckman: Beyond science, there are hard decisions ahead” – https://www.newsroom.co.nz/peter-gluckman-beyond-science
  (then return, of course, to Kiwiblog)
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:58am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Gluckman is spot on about opening up which definately has to happen sometime next year. When that happens there will be Covid deaths. Then Cindy can be asked how many Covid deaths are acceptale.
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:59am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Chuck what we need to do is state the Flu deaths and the covid deaths then there maybe some reality come back to the table.
    Biden Booster plan is in tatters, CDC has voted 16-2 against the boosters. There will be no shortage of vaccines in 2022, Australia has 126 million ordered two thirds will more than likely be thrown away if this keeps going the way it is.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How many unknown deaths caused by the lock down are reasonable? Lack of medical attention, youth mental health, school dropouts, small (and large) businesses crushed or floundering because of unwise decision making.
    Not costless.
    How can this govt be the fount of knowledge with this history of mayhem?
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:14am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      There needs to be an article done in mainstream media about how many deaths lockdown has caused. I guess Shaun Hendy and Jacinda would say they’ve saved 80,000 deaths as per his original model!
      
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      September 19, 2021 9:42am
    - Prince
      
      Interesting that annual suicide stats, always published in August each year, have not appeared this year.
      Frantic scramble to recode some incidents ?
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:46am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Ther was news the other day that attempted suicides had doubled during lockdowns. So no doubt there has been a large but hidden death toll (with huge delays in coroners findings being released)
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:40pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        The news the other day was an Auckland University study of attempted suicides in young people aged 10 to 14. There was an increase of more than 120% between 2019 and 2020, and I suspect this year’s numbers would be even higher.
        
        The Government hosed down stories of an increase in suicides last year, but I suspect the numbers, when eventually released, won’t lie.
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:46pm
      - Alwynn
        
        They did release a statement on 2/9/21 that said
        “The provisional suspected self-inflicted death statistics for the 2020/2021 period are expected to be released in late September.”
        Maybe we don’t have that long to wait. I really doubt that the Chief Coroner would go along with a serious fiddle of the numbers.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:08pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I believe Tova was trying to ask Andrew Little how many deaths would be acceptable in an interview. There have always been deaths and always will be. It’s only since Covid that we actually report on them. The last death was a 90+ year old …..for goodness sake, we should be celebrating a long life. I cant see myself making 90 unfortunately.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:34am
    - kowtow
      
      If the Nats had been in power Toxic would be grilling them about how many covid vaccination caused deaths were acceptable ,why they hadn’t apologised for it and why did they wait till a reporter asked about it before it was finally raised at the Podium of Truth ; as it is the paid for Media Pardy are singularly uninterested in taking their pay masters to task .
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:27pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    In my opinion, we should be opening up early next year, 1st of January even. As everyone that wants to get the vaccine should have got it by Christmas. I don’t want to live a long unhappy life locked down or living under a rock in fear.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:37am
- Deadly pony
  
  Early treatment protocols are needed to keep people out of hospital. Yesterday I watched this interview with an American doctor who has treated 1700 covid patients with only one death and one four-day hospitalisation. Really interesting https://youtu.be/fe1TqxvXKTs
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:07am
  - PhilBest
    
    These are the most-downloaded papers on Covid, in the world. Note the dates on them. Doctors anywhere who are NOT adopting these protocols are trapped in a system that keeps them working within a very narrow set of guidelines from above.
    
    https://rcm.imrpress.com/article/2020/2153-8174/RCM2020264.shtml
    Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection
    
    Further comment:
    
    https://rcm.imrpress.com/article/2021/2153-8174/RCM21022301.shtml
    SARS-CoV-2 infection and the COVID-19 pandemic: a call to action for therapy and interventions to resolve the crisis of hospitalization, death, and handle the aftermath
    
    See also: “The Reply”
    https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)31093-7/fulltext
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:38am
    - Ed Snack
      
      We commented on this before, as it is put, it is “anecdata” with no controls. It may be entirely accurate but we just cannot tell.
      
      However much of the treatment is kind of slam dunk obvious, and extremely inexpensive to implement. Both Ivermectin and HCQ are off patent and (as long as supplies are actually available) very cheap, and zinc supplements plus Vitamins D3 and C are also very cheap. The various anti-clotting agents and antibiotics (to deal with micro clots and opportunistic infections) probably less so but still not really expensive.
      
      So why don’t we implement these on a purely experimental basis, some medical intervention needed (HCQ for a start is contra-indicated for some people) but otherwise pretty simple and dirt cheap. If it doesn’t work at all it will undoubtedly have a placebo effect and will have cost very little.
      
      Yet Remdesvir is an approved treatment, and not only the original but also a recently completed study show that it is in fact a worthless despite costing something like $10K per person.
      
      One other thing NZ should be doing is obtaining supplies of the Regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment as that certainly seems to be very effective for those infected. So effective in fact that Joe Biden has had to stop Florida and Texas using it as much as they do because it is ruining the narrative that GOP run states killing their residents. So for “equity” reasons FL and TX cannot get all they want even though other states do not have the infrastructure in place to use the diverted antibodies. That’s Joe for you, like killing aid workers by drone, no deaths are a problem as long as they are not Democrat voters.
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:31pm
      - PhilBest
        
        I agree, it really is that bad. No-one has paid any political price for dumping Covid infectious patients into rest homes during early 2020 either – New York and Michigan
        
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        September 19, 2021 4:40pm
- All_on_Red
  
  I suspect the problem is more like neither Ardern nor Bloomfield want to be the one to say, ‘we have to open up and unfortunately some people will probably die’.
  So, in avoiding making a decision and doing their job, here we are stuck confined to our homes.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:09am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    More will die because of the lockdown.
    
    34 3
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    September 19, 2021 9:15am
    - kowtow
      
      Many will die because of lockdown and many more will die post lockdown of/with covid .
      
      What was the point? Beyond delaying the inevitable at huge cost .
      
      23 1
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      September 19, 2021 9:23am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Suicides (including unexplained disappearances and unexplained high-speed car crashes) will be up.
      
      What’s that?
      What you mean “The government no longer publishes suicide statistics”?
      
      25 1
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      September 19, 2021 9:26am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        All deaths are now Covid deaths. Gotta keep the fear porn going
        
        19 3
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        September 19, 2021 11:15am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The human mind naturally prioritises nearer term threats. So, decision makers will prefer the immediate certainty of avoiding deaths by pandemic to actions that possibly, perhaps even probably, will reduce overall harm from the pandemic in the future.
      Another good example would be the widespread agreement that countries need to act to mitigate the consequences of climate change, versus the reluctance by any country to bear the immediate costs of reducing emissions.
      
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      September 19, 2021 9:45am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘The human mind naturally prioritises nearer term threats.’
        
        That’s why there’s a scientifically pointless mask mandate . To make everyone fearful of those around us , a constant reminder that plague , disease and death stalks the land and can be standing next to you while you do your food gathering or sitting next to you on your trip to work .
        
        Fear , immediacy , the abnormal , distrust of those near you , nark nation to keep yourself and those you hold dear safe ……..
        
        0800 STASI , you know it’s for the good of the nation in time of mortal peril .
        
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        September 19, 2021 10:32am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Forget climate change. It’s not relevant.
        
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        September 19, 2021 12:38pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You are quite possibly correct. But the status quo is likely to prevail for at least the rest of this year, I suggest. But I should hope the ‘next steps’, can be set out clearly, and with the kind of bipartisan support we have seen so far for the government’s actions.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:17am
- kowtow
  
  ‘the role of public health science has informed Government’s decision-making.’
  
  says Gluckman , but the Prime Mangler herself told us it was done on foot of a scary phone call from overseas.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:15am
Jibber NO Jabber

It’s for your health…
https://twitter.com/_evelynrae/status/1439192750482616327
Never thought I’d say FTP in my lifetime but here we are.
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September 19, 2021 8:08am
- kevn
  
  @Jib… The ‘just following orders’ with some vigour.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:14am
Suze Wainwright

Labour Party MPs proudly showing the locations of vaccination centers – with the Labour Party logo – on Facebook
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September 19, 2021 8:12am
Vory v zakone

Wow. Here’s some info provided during the latest FDA Vaxx Meeting

Dr Rose states based on the VAERS data… the risks far outweigh the benefits especially for children

Over a 1000% increase in Adverse Events In 2021!

She questions if the shots are driving the variants

There is a clear failure of these products

https://youtu.be/hsVEbPgrhxA
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September 19, 2021 8:15am
- PhilBest
  
  https://wmbriggs.com/post/37095/
  
  Scroll down to “deaths by cause” graphs at the bottom.
  
  Note the extraordinary spike in “unclassified”
  
  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:46am
Yvette

Hopefully we will soon reach vaccination levels of perhaps 85-90 percent of New Zealand’s population over 12 years old. Yet this is only about 75 percent of the total population. – Sir Peter Gluckman [1] was science advisor to John Key, is Director of Koi Tū: The Centre for Informed Futures, President Elect of the International Science Council and chair of the International Covid Scenarios project – and not a dunce in logic or simple maths.

My back of an envelope scribbled calculation (even on statins), for 90% vaccinated of age above 12 years, is actually about 75.7% of the total population.

Or – see for yourself – using yesterday evening’s 1-News figure of “4.2 million being eligible” – divide that by the “team of Five Million” (4.2 / 5 = 0.84) to give those eligible as a portion of the whole, then multiply that by 0.9 (the ninety percent) gives 0.756 or 75.6% – close enough.

Can Jacinda please explain how this actual 75 percent relates to the now seemingly established Government vaccination target of “90 percent or more”?

For example – Andrew Little says he’d ‘be surprised if we ever see a level 4 lockdown again’ if vaccination coverage reaches 90 percent – Newshub headline this morning.

So 90% of who exactly?

And who in National (perhaps Simon Bridges or Dr Shane Reti) will point out this ~~spin, deception, ignorance (Ardern’s or ours)~~ simple oversight of the Labourless Government?

[1] https://www.newsroom.co.nz/peter-gluckman-beyond-science
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September 19, 2021 8:16am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Yvette, in NZ the percentage vaccinated is of the population 12 and over. In Oz, it is 16 and over.
  
  Even using 12 and over I really doubt we will reach 85%.
  
  We can say anti-vaxers are stupid. However, they exist. They are not all low IQ people. Some are medical professionals.
  
  As of yesterday we had 37.6 fully vaccinated and we are vaccinating about 60k a day. Once we get to 75% things will really slow down.
  
  Will this government look for vaccine passes to enter certain venues? That could get some backlash.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:51pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    On Saturday we had 53,386 vaccinated.
    
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    September 19, 2021 1:34pm
Andrei

Well the idea that the Government could eliminate deaths from viral pneumonia among the elderly and infirm triggered by one specific virus was a fools errand to begin with

And now after 19 months of major disruptions to the economic and personal lives of our citizens the architects of this fiasco need to find a way of climbing down without loosing face
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September 19, 2021 8:22am
- kowtow
  
  And they claim they wouldn’t put a figure on how many deaths are acceptable ……..while funding abortion and making it more “accessible” and later termed .
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:35am
- Surely Knott
  
  British Medical Journal: Tamiflu and Influenza More harm than good?
  
  “We hear so much about the vital importance of flu shots that it will come as a nasty surprise to learn that they increase the risk of illness from noninfluenza virus infections such as rhinoviruses, coronaviruses, RS viruses, parainfluenza viruses, adenoviruses, HMP viruses and enteroviruses. This has been shown in at least two studies that have received little attention from public health authorities: A prospective case-control study in healthy young Australian children found that seasonal flu shots doubled their risk of illness from noninfluenza virus infections.”
  “Overall, the vaccine increased the risk of virus-associated acute respiratory illness, including influenza, by 73%”
  
  “First infections in young children can provide this, a phenomenon known as “imprinting”; this is subverted by childhood vaccination. Furthermore, the protection in adults who still carry the imprint from childhood may be subverted by the seasonal flu vaccine. This was seen in middle-aged adults during the 2018/19 influenza A(H3N2) epidemic in Canada; vaccine recipients suffered a nearly fivefold risk of illness from a drifted strain of A(H3N2), compared with unvaccinated individuals”
  https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m626/rr
  
  Will be interesting to look at not just the single covid statistic but our overall mortality and health impact over the next few years.
  
  *I have all my normal shots. Not antivax.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:29pm
G152

Tv’s gone down. Not talking to the satellite so I booted up the steam driven radio…
Whats happened there? So much unreason and hate.
The ‘announcers’ spend their hour/s vilifying those they don’t agree with and suck up to them who promise much and deliver little…
Fortunately Monday 0900 the nice man is coming with tools, knowledge and once again I shall have TV news to laugh at
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September 19, 2021 8:23am
- kevn
  
  @G152… Go for online stuff via google like accuradio.com or boomradiouk.com.
  No adverts, minimum announcer time and great variety.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:05am
  - H. Upmann
    
    I often have this going in the background – https://somafm.com/ . Choice of 38 genres.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:23am
westernScientest

I think NZ can get to 90% vac, if we are aloud NovaVax. This is just from reading comments on various blogs, Interest.co.nz etc. and talking to the people I know who dont want Pfizer for various reasons. There are quite a few people who say no to MRNA, but would get NovaVax, or a traditional vaccine no problem.

Out of interest is there anyone here who would refuse to get NovaVax, or another traditional vaccine?
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September 19, 2021 8:25am
- kevn
  
  @western… I am part of the finale trial for Valneva. One final booster in 2 weeks and that’s it.
  Not a fizzer customer for life.
  Novavax here next year, maybe. Plenty of folk waiting for it.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:02am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    Good for you – it’s vitally important that people take part in these trials.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:59am
    - PhilBest
      
      I second that!
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:47am
- Cinematic
  
  If I can see a clear medical need to take a vaccine I will. I’ve never been anti MRNA.
  
  So for me they can flood NZ with every vaccine out there and it won’t change the basic question.
  
  Is this a virus I personally need to vaccinate against?
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:08am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    Depends – how old are you, how healthy are you, do you live with or look after elderly or unhealthy dependents ?
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:01am
  - PhilBest
    
    That’s an interesting position – never been anti mRNA? Most of us knew nothing about it until it was suddenly rolled out to the entirety of humanity for Covid. I’d like reassurance about the pivot from emergency use for people with terminal illnesses only, in one-off instances (almost always with mRNA addressing a deficiency that was killing them) and with utmost caution around treatment to avoid shedding to medical staff – to suddenly rolling it out as a vaccine for the entire public with insufficient time for anything that could fairly be described as “longitudinal trials”.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:53am
    - Cinematic
      
      Yes I get that. The basic premise for medicine and health care is to help people notwithstanding the aim for pecuniary profit.
      
      I’m simply saying the question of a vaccines efficacy or safety or effectiveness is not the primary question for me.
      
      In this case and until I see data that contradicts this I back my immune system to handle this one.
      
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      September 19, 2021 12:25pm
      - PhilBest
        
        Yep we are on the same page there Cinematic
        
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        September 19, 2021 4:42pm
- Fletch
  
  Yeh, I’m leaning toward Nova as well. If the govt want the 90% vaccination rate, they have to offer a traditional vaccine.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:30pm
Yvette

Scientific advisers to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have voted not to recommend a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine for most Americans, a potentially significant blow to the Biden administration after it announced a plan to “boost” adults before advisory committees had a chance to review scientific evidence in public.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/17/fda-pfizer-booster-shots-covid-vaccine-advisers
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September 19, 2021 8:27am
- Cinematic
  
  Pfizer is incredibly disappointed by this decision. What has it cost that company in future revenue? Billions.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:10am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    Pfizer is enormous while this will cost them some future profits it won’t make much of a dent at all.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:02am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Pfizer want to own even the 6 month-olds now:
  
  https://www.politico.eu/article/pfizer-us-vaccine-approval-children-6-months-5-years-old/
  
  They want you as their bitch from the cradle to the grave, which is a very profitable business model.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:20am
Sacha

Why aren’t Aucklanders in the ‘danger zones’ not being issued with prophylactic drug treatment? If Uttar Pradesh, with its 250-million population could do it, why not South Auckland?
Or is it because its INDIA and not Pfizer?
Or is our MoH really as bone-headed as it looks?
-Wait, no need to answer that
.https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/
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September 19, 2021 8:32am
- PhilBest
  
  Reiner Fuellmich has been making some interesting comments over his experiences co-ordinating global legal actions over all this; he says that so far, it is judges in India that most distinguish themselves for preparedness to buck the system and just do the right freakin’ thing. It is the old British colonial justice system, but working better (sometimes) than the original.
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:56am
kowtow

The NZME Sunday Herald editorial under the heading “To Boost or not to boost” has the following sentence :

“There have been hints of reduced vaccine protection against covid infection months after shots”

And that’s it , from the “news” organisation that has dedicated itself to a 90 % vaccination rate and that ‘s it , “hints” .

Hints , when it is now well established scientific real world experience that Pfizers’ efficacy falls off a cliff only months after the jab .

And then they expect us to trust them , these organisations that have signed up to so much tax payer largesse to do the govt’s bidding.
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September 19, 2021 8:34am
- Cinematic
  
  Why oh why does the msm have such difficulty communicating facts to their audience?
  
  The only conclusion one can draw is they think we all have the critical thinking of toddlers.
  
  Here’s some news for news outlets – people working in your industry are not the high point of human endeavour and intelligence.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:20am
- JamesP
  
  Boiling the frog. Stuff like this needs to be drip fed to the sheeple. Otherwise they might arrive at unapproved conclusions well before the gradual transition away from elimination is completed.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:31am
I remember when

No mention of the vaccination bus name in the media.
* Is “Shot Bro” an appropriate name with the Government being so strong on terrorism and guns.
* Would National have escaped criticism – for being ‘racist’ or ‘insensitive’, if they had used the name.
* Isn’t it just a little bit childish – ho,ho.
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September 19, 2021 8:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It is nasty violent rhetoric sanctioned by folks who think it is a clever pun.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:49am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How is the term ‘shot bro’ rhetoric, let alone ‘violent rhetoric’?
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:56pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      1. Rhetoric – Speech or writing that aims to influence or persuade
      
      The term is designed to influence /persuade folks
      (that it is “cool” to be vaccinated at the bus)
      
      2. “Shot, bro” clearly a play on words…which seem distinctly inappropriate when there have been numerous shootings in Auckland in the last couple of years. (Feel free to check the statistics, yourself).
      
      Including the very recent shooting of a terrorist by police…..
      
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      September 19, 2021 2:25pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I suggest you google the definition of ‘shot bro’ and its origin from sports rather than gun violence. I’d be particularly interested if you could quote the use of shot bro in any sense approving of homicide.
        
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        September 19, 2021 2:32pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        try this then…
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I21Z2H681ws
        
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        September 19, 2021 2:58pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I admire your persistence, but a clip from a video game? Really?
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:09pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I admire your persistence
        
        Thanks.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:31pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Do you really not know that “Shot, Bro” is a theatre performance by a Young Māori man who attempted
        suicide by Cop shooting?
        
        https://www.maoritelevision.com/shows/sunday-documentaries/S01E001/shot-bro
        
        http://www.onmag.co.nz/onstage-shot-bro-confessions-of-a-depressed-bullet/
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:41pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I know that now, but I also know that frantic googling to find scarcely known incidences of ‘shot bro’ as a term of violence may not be the best use of a Sunday afternoon.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:56pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I answered your questions politely, but you had to put in your little digs.
        
        I have no great desire to ever publicise violence or suicide, or folks being shot, but I’m not going to pretend that “shot bro” is acceptable terminology for a Government Health campaign in a community where gun violence is out of control.
        
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        September 19, 2021 6:13pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        If you were aware of that play and doco before 10.49 am today, and that your first thought on seeing the term used as a vaccination catch-phrase was that it would promote violence, then I sincerely apologise for mistaking your genuine concern for a cynical attack on a harmless phrase.
        
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        September 19, 2021 7:26pm
Cinematic

Good on you Sean. I will be listening to The Platform when it launches this summer.

I had been hoping this culling of talented radio hosts would create the critical mass needed for a new station. And so it has.
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September 19, 2021 8:45am
stroker08

Interesting article on Sean Plunkett’s next venture written by Andrea Vance in Stuff. No surprises that it was duck shoved into the “Entertainment” section…

https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/126414149/sean-plunket-putting-the-unfashionable-back-on-air
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September 19, 2021 8:53am
- Yvette
  
  Strokero8 – “it was duck shoved into the “Entertainment” section”
  That may be because it is about Sean Plunkett, or because it is written by Andrea Vance, or both …
  
  Plunket says journalists’ acceptance of money from NZ on Air is “fundamentally wrong.”
  He is particularly exercised that a new $55m public interest journalism fund [administered by NZ On Air] incorporates a commitment to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. However, many outlets already include this in their charters or corporate values.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:11am
- ecco
  
  That sounds exciting. I think he will struggle for advertising though from any big corporate as those corporates won’t want to be linked to a right wing station, especially with the woke leader we have in place at the moment.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:12am
  - Cinematic
    
    Who spends the money the advertisers are after?
    
    12 0
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    September 19, 2021 10:22am
    - Paulus
      
      The women are the targets for advertising in our so called media as is obvious as that is where the money to spend is.
      I know from the women in my extended family – any excuse to go shopping.
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:49pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Which section of Stuff should have featured this piece?
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:20am
  - Manu-Rau
    
    How about their ‘Crap Opinions Of Dopey Irish Journalists’ section I’m sure a world-leading media organization like Stuff will have one
    
    But, then again, I don’t bother visiting their taxpayer funded website.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:40am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      “I don’t know would have sufficed”
      
      1 7
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      September 19, 2021 12:57pm
Ruahine

I wonder if whilst chatting to Imran Khan concerning the cancelled cricket tour of Pakistan did Ardern bother to enquire as to how the Pakistani ‘Sisterhood’ is progressing and was he able to give any updates about the social progress occurring in Afghanistan right now.
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September 19, 2021 8:53am
CAKE FACE1

There has been one enormous lie repeated so often during this Rona crisis that it is now widely regarded as fact.

The widespread lie that is almost unchallenged is that New Zealand’s economic response to Covid has either been relatively good, or at least it hasn’t been that bad.

This is wrong. The economic effects of our Zero Covid folly have been ruinous. No one has tallied the total public and private sector hit, but it is probably over 100% of GDP, combining all public and private sector costs.

This is Third World territory of spending and wastage.

We are all responsible.

In particular, National and Act are responsible for collaborating with the potential ruin of our nation.

I was reading Mr Farrar appeasing the government yesterday, and I couldn’t help thinking – we are all to blame for this. Stop waving the piece of paper saying the 2020 and 2021 response was fine. They weren’t.

Lockdowns need to be stopped – now!

Every day, the country goes further and further into debt.

As I explained yesterday, no QALY calculation has ever justified any of this, and never will. This spending does not make sense, for the number of lives that it saves.

If we have a new virus, we cannot afford to take this road again.

Alas, the economic response was outsourced to a bunch of socialist medical “experts”. They wanted to vandalise the economy – Baker and Hendy have been open about this. Bogus climate crisis claims were made…

The collaboration must stop. National and Act need to say no. Enough is enough. Before it’s too late…
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September 19, 2021 9:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I would qualify this to suggest that the Government should simply say “by 31 December get vaccinated. Make your choice. On 1 January 2022 the border is open to all vaccinated travellers.”
  
  (Having said I will not comment on COVID, I have decided that I will not comment on the efficacy of vaccines and debate people on the data and science. I may still comment on the economic impacts and the overall government strategy.)
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:11am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Thanks for posting your agenda in advance. Probably best to give up on debating the data and science pertaining to vaccine efficacy anyway, given that none of it supports your strong vaccine advocacy.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:47am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Oh well. I analyse data for a living and I have spent 200 hours analysing data on the vaccine efficacy. Clearly I am in the wrong job.
      
      20 1
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      September 19, 2021 11:46am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Or not getting paid for the “right” job !
        
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        September 19, 2021 1:41pm
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        After huge amounts of pressure and media attention to get people to vaccinate a significant percentage of Kiwis have resisted.
        
        The long term efficacy of the vaccine is in doubt as is its ability to both protect the user and prevent vaccinated people from spreading the virus.
        
        Why not let people make up their own mind about getting vaccinated? If the unvaccinated end up worse off they can only blame themselves.
        
        Since being vaccinated does not prevent you from infecting others how can you criticize people not wanting to take an experimental vaccine?
        
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        September 19, 2021 8:34pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        Ah, the argument from authority. Many such instances. I really don’t care what your job is, only if you are right or wrong.
        
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        September 19, 2021 8:36pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        info@cruzpro.com
        Look, it has taken Benedict 200 hours, and endless KB posts on the matter, to reach the incorrect conclusion that the vaccines are effective, whereas it has taken me a fraction of that time (merely through logical inference) to conclude that, if booster shots are deemed necessary, then clearly the vaccine is not effective. And this is aside from the further fact that large numbers of ostensibly inoculated people are still contracting, spreading and being hospitalised by Covid.
        
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        September 19, 2021 9:01pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        And the neo-fascist’s argument would be?
        
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        September 19, 2021 9:11pm
- ecco
  
  David Seymour and Chris Bishop were on a ten minute slot on The Nation (far too short a slot unfortunately) on what they would do with the covid crisis. Both acquitted themselves well. Seymour in particular blitzed it. He goes from strength to strength.
  
  Seymour said having a vaccine target is just going to hold the nz economy to ransom. He would have a deadline by which everyone who wanted to could get vaccinated and then after that the nz economy needed to be opened up. Made a lot of sense to me. Of course this wouldn’t suit Cindy’s fear and control narrative.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:21am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Every week I am more and more pleased with my decision to join Act.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:49am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, in four short years, Comrade Cindy has taken NZ from Power House to Poor House ably assisted by her mates Robertson, Mahuta, Hipkins and Little with Mallard running defense for them all.
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:49pm
- Cinematic
  
  Yes I’d say collaborating with Labour on the covid response is the biggest blunder National has made in the last 20 years.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:24am
  - thirteenstars
    
    What’s new though? They mirror Labour’s policies anyway. How else do you explain the movement Left in this country for the past 20+ years under *both* governments?
    
    The heady days of Douglas and Richardson are long gone. Under Clark, Labour vehemently disavowed Rogernomics and cleansed itself, which was no surprise. National has done the same with Richardson, et al. preferring to be night watchman for the next Labour government and the next several steps Left.
    
    Don’t look to National for salvation. They just don’t have the guts to say and do what’s right, and they’ll deserve every moment of embarrassment of their sub-20% result come 2023.
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:39pm
kowtow

Oh the irony , Vance of $tuffed has a story on Plunket , free speech , media issues and funding and at the end the declaration ;

‘*Andrea Vance has worked on projects funded by NZ on Air.’

Surely now that virtually our whole so called fourth estate has signed up to regime funding then each and every story and item they purvey should carry the declaration that they have signed up to

“the media fund’s requirements being very specific about how the Treaty is discussed.

The section describing its goals recommends “actively promoting the principles of Partnership, Participation and Active Protection under Te Tiriti o Waitangi acknowledging Māori as a Te Tiriti partner“. And the first of the general eligibility criteria requires all applicants to show a “commitment to Te Tiriti o Waitangi and to Māori as a Te Tiriti partner”. ”

https://democracyproject.nz/2021/09/14/graham-adams-the-double-edged-sword-of-the-55m-government-journalism-fund-cuts-deep/?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=graham-adams-the-double-edged-sword-of-the-55m-government-journalism-fund-cuts-deep
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September 19, 2021 9:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Do you think that there is such a thing as public-interest journalism?
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:24am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Public-interest journalism is fine mikenmild. But it seems to be focused on the Opposition, which is constitutionally powerless, and not the Government, which should be held accountable for every dollar of taxpayer money it spends.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:07am
    - Bob
      
      Public interest journalism was once prevalent in NZ, in the days when Journalists began their career walking the community streets and events.
      Now NZ has a Propaganda Dept, purchased by Ardern for $105 mill of your Taxes.
      
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      September 19, 2021 12:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Your attention is probably always focused on criticism of your beloved National Party, either in office or out.
      It would be fun to actually study media bias here, as contrasted with perceptions of media bias, but I doubt there would be any takers here to crowdfund such an initiative.
      I don’t know how much research these people do, but perhaps it’s at least a starting point:
      https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-zealand-media-profile/
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:06pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    In NZ right now, no. What we have is propaganda enforcing a political hegemony.
    
    Do you remember “speaking truth to power” ? What a laugh, now we have “speaking for the people that pay us lots of other people’s money to do so”. The concept of truth is very malleable when money is involved.
    
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    September 19, 2021 1:45pm
- ecco
  
  I found that treaty requirement alarming. What sort of things have to be done to meet that treaty criteria? X number of maori journalists on your payroll? Announcers have to speak fluent maori? There has to be x % maori articles?
  
  Hope some sunlight is shone on these race based policies before the next election that are being slipped in by stealth by the oh so cunning Ardern. I guess it all helps for her woke CV when she applies for her UN gig..
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:26am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  The Treaty was between Maori and the Crown, not natural persons or private entities. It is only judicial opinions of Treaty principles in recent decades that have enabled governments ( particularly the present one ) to push these partnership requirements down to individuals or private entities.
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:49am
  - Nickc2
    
    What is this thing you call Partnership? There’s no mention of such a thing in the ToW.
    One needs to be very careful these days with the use of words. Aotearoa is such a word where common use especially by the MSM has made it acceptable to the point where it’s almost compulsory.
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:55pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      ” What is this thing you call Partnership? There’s no mention of such a thing in the ToW.”
      
      Perfectly correct. More a case of the successors to the treaty’s signatories pushing a “concept”, much as the judiciary opinions “created” principles.
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:38pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  These funding requirements appear very dodgy. The law is plain the Crown cannot have a partner in its sovereignty. To require affirmation to the contrary about Maori before handing out money is close to blackmail which is not proper for any govt agency.
  Is the PM implicated in this outrage?
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:48pm
ABS4EVA

If you are Serious about surviving COVID

Home GYM
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September 19, 2021 9:24am
kowtow

Amazing , the Media pardy still applying the blow torch to the so called Wanaka couple .

Nothing more on the Turoa Trio or Gadabout Gaston , or Wiley Wiles .
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September 19, 2021 9:32am
- Cinematic
  
  The msm – a smaller minded more spiteful group of people does not exist (with a few brave, and I mean brave, exceptions).
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:26am
- ecco
  
  What I want to know, is have the police investigated Wiles? Does her mate Gaston live alone? Wiles needs to come out and state this if she’s got nothing to hide. Wiles seems to have gone bush lately. Haven’t seen any of her preaching and patronising video clips of late on how we should all be behaving.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:29am
  - PhilBest
    
    Yes it is hypocritical behaviour on the part of the dictatorial class and their cheerleaders that would be REAL news. Joe Average getting lockdown fatigue and doing something naughty is not quite in the same league.
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:06pm
- PeeJay
  
  in my view, the wanaka couple are clearly idiots and deserve whatever comes to them under the law. They knew the rules and broke them – not even a debate. I’m constantly amazed with the volume of people on this blog that shout loud about the rule of law……until it’s a rule they don’t like! Don’t get me wrong, the lockdowns are a complete overreach and are a failing strategy but you don’t get to pick and chose the laws and rules that apply to you. That’s hypocrisy we usually expect from the left! However, the pile on over this wanaka couple is clearly disproportionate and the lack of action and silence from the same media on the numerous other breaches is ridiculous – arguably some of which could have serious health and economic consequences. One rule for thee and one rule for me……or potential voters perhaps!
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:11pm
Nickc2

If you ever wondered why we are what we are with regard to our views on life in general and politics in particular, here’s an excellent article by Harry Hunt and published on The BFD. It’s an enthralling and easy read.
https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/09/19/bipartisanship-a-ship-that-has-sailed/
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September 19, 2021 9:35am
Benedict Yu

I enjoy going for walks in New Zealand. I often come across geography and history of which I was unaware.

Last weekend I visited Onawe Peninsula. It was the site of a fortified pa of the local iwi.

https://www.historyhit.com/locations/onawe-peninsula/

In the early 1830s a hostile group of 1200 warriors sailed down from the North Island and killed all the people there. Somewhere betwen 600 and 1000. Many were tortured and eaten.

It brought home to me how brutal Maori society was, particularly after they acquired firearms. I know the prevailing wisdom of the government is that colonisation was terrible for Maori. But I have to wonder what would have happened to most Maori had the British just walked away, leaving New Zealand to sealers and gun traders. By 1900 there may have been few Maori left.
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September 19, 2021 9:53am
- cmm
  
  If the Brits had just walked away they’d likely have set up shop somewhere else eg. PNG.
  
  Then PNG would have the cities and be sending foreign aid to NZ.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:59am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t get why this bloodshed has been expunged. When the Maori party wails about colonisation, why don’t the media say ummm you were massacring each other?
    
    IIRC recently a National MP politely pointed out that colonisation had benefits and was smacked by Judith.
    
    How have we ended up in this ridiculous situation?
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:06am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Can you tell me why you think this bloodshed has been expunged?
      This is a genuine question: it seems that you believe that this history was recorded and then censored.
      
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      September 19, 2021 10:28am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I appreciate your question. It has not been expunged. But does it feature in the New Zealand school history curriculum? Is its cessation cited by politicians as a benefit of colonisation? Are the horrors of killing and torture openly acknowledged by Maori?
        
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        September 19, 2021 10:47am
      - cmm
        
        It has been at least partially expunged by blaming it on colonialism.
        
        Something along the lines of: If the Pakeha hadn’t come and disrupted things and brought muskets then everything would have stayed as it was – all kumbaya.
        
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        September 19, 2021 11:01am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Benedict, I suggest you have a look at the history curriculum and the comment over the proposed new curriculum.
        I’m pretty old, and very little NZ history was taught in my years at school. At primary school we got a little about “the Maoris”, all pre-European and no other specifically NZ history I can recall. At secondary school, history was a specific option for Forms 5 to 7 (years 11-13). NZ subjects were the welfare state and NZ in world affairs. The focus was completely European – nationalism in Germany, Italy and Ireland, causes of WWI, Tudor and Stuart England.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:26pm
    - cmm
      
      Reality is very messy, but they like to simplify “history” so that it can be used for messaging: white man bad, Maori man good.
      
      Just like the Pax Romana brought peace and stability to Europe and North Africa, the Pax Britannica brought peace and stability to Africa, New Zealand and elsewhere.
      
      I don’t know when Maori cannibalism and slavery ended, but when it did happen it was down to the Brits.
      
      I was recently reading about some of my grandfather’s exploits in South West Africa (now Namibia) from 1915 to the 1920s. He first went into South West Africa as part of the army to help turf the Germans out. He then stayed on for more than a decade in various military/administrative roles. He spent most of his time sorting out inter-tribal conflicts – bringing peace to the region for the first time ever. He also spent a lot of time dismantling slavery in the area.
      
      The Brits were a vastly superior colonial force than the Germans who were vicious bastards much of the time and did little to improve the lot of the people there – if anything making it a lot worse.
      
      It is telling that after the British took over South West Africa soon after the start of WW1 (1915 or so), masses of Owambo people voted with their feet, streameing down from Angola to SWA to move from Portugese control to British control.
      
      But the Brits are the bastards, right?
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:19am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I don’t know when Maori slavery ended
        
        Theoretically in 1840, when all Maori had the same rights (under Tof W) as Citizens of Britain.
        
        But in practice, not until the 1850s.
        
        http://www.theprow.org.nz/maori/slavery-in-colonial-times/#.YUaO6mYzbBJ
        
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        September 19, 2021 1:19pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Perhaps the research reported here will give you a more informed perspective:
        https://slate.com/business/2006/10/which-country-is-the-best-colonizer.html
        
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        September 19, 2021 1:54pm
      - cmm
        
        Thanks Maggy.
        
        So it seems that slave taking pretty much stopped at the time the British took over, then the few remaining slaves slowly faded away over the next 10-20 years.
        
        The same happened in SWA, East Africa and elsewhere at different times. The common thread though is that it was the British that achieved this in East Africa (a bit of gun-boat diplomacy with Zanzibar in 1870s and then with Army and Naval patrols in the area that would become Kenya), then later in SWA and around India etc.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:10pm
    - PeeJay
      
      Regardless of what others might argue, I think you are right to a degree. Perhaps expunged isn’t the right phrase, perhaps being air brushed? It certainly is happening though. From my experience (Scottish stock) it’s a fairly universal trait, particularly with smaller ethnic groupings that need something to cling to in terms of uniqueness. The past gets an air brush and the best bits are amplified and the worst bits dropped. The average scotsman I knew would rave on about tartans and clans and all the other bits without ever really studying the history. History was somewhat less ‘hollywood’. Back stabbers, absolute grinding poverty, highlanders v lowlanders, clan v clan, massacres of women and children, all the good stuff. But still the romanticised versions remains to a large part. Almost like there is a collective will to see what they want, reflected in the past. I suspect thats the same with Maori and all ethnic groups – forget the less glamorous aspects of the past, bit of air brushing etc and haven’t we always been wonderful.
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:21pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Agree PeeJay. History is not 1.5 to 2.0 hours long (the length of a feature movie). History is what happens over a long period of time sometimes with breaks/diversions for major/minor interruptions (side events). Some events are recorded and some not (or as you say, “airbrushed out of existence”) as is Maori Cannibalism where if it’s not recorded or talked about, over an extended period of time, it will be conveniently forgotten.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:04pm
  - PhilBest
    
    PNG is an excellent counterfactual, what reason do we have to believe that “Aotearoa” might not also still have jungle dwellers shrinking heads and eating each other?
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:08pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No it isn’t, because geography matters.
      
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      September 19, 2021 1:59pm
      - cmm
        
        How does geography matter?
        
        Both PNG and NZ were slaving, cannibal cultures until Western European pressures stamped these practices out.
        
        It is hard to define exactly what “basket case nation” means, but surely any that relies on foreign aid is.
        
        Exactly zero of the European-run former British colonies are basket cases. Almost all the nations that have not been colonised, or have reverted to their own control are. Every nation in Africa is a basket case. Every nation in Oceania (other than NZ) is a basket case. It is completely naive to think that NZ would be any different.
        
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        September 19, 2021 3:18pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Try reading Jared Diamond and then tell me that geography doesn’t matter. There are geographical factors that heavily influenced how societies develop (Guns, Germs and Steel) and why they fail (Collapse).
        
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        September 19, 2021 5:49pm
- Nickc2
  
  There are no true Maori in NZ today. The British idea (although not published) was to turn a blind eye to cross-breeding with Maori until such time as there were few if any remaining. I was taught this in school so it must be true.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:16am
  - cmm
    
    Most of the cross breeding is a natural result of the Maori warfare culture mixing with a predominantly male influx of white settlers/whalers etc.
    
    Why did so many Maori men have multiple wives? Basically because there were a surplus of women. Why’s that? Men were being killed in inter-tribal warfare (often executed after battle) and women were then raped or taken as slaves.
    
    Same basic deal as in Africa.
    
    When there are a surplus of Maori women and a surplus of horny sealers, whalers and settlers it is inevitable that the many women would end up settling down with white men or become pregnant through prostitution. Of course there will be massive genetic mixing.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:45am
    - PhilBest
      
      Simon Chapple (2000): Maori Socio-Economic Disparity
      
      https://www.nzcpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Maori-Economic-Disparity-Simon-Chapple.pdf
      
      Everyone should be aware of that paper. Maori have been intermarrying with non-Maori at a rate of more than 50% in every generation, for generations. Statistics for “Maori” are a joke because the people included in them are actually no different genetically and ancestrally, from a larger number of people NOT included in them.
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:46pm
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Benedict check out Michael Bassett on this, he knows a lot about the musket wars and much of it is not flattering to Maori.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:18am
- ecco
  
  The mind boggles at the cannibalism less than 200 years ago here. I bet that’s been erased from the history books.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:32am
- kowtow
  
  Te Rauparaha 1829 . Kaikoura.
  
  “The chief Rerewaka and the people of Kaikoura were expecting a visit from some of their southern friends, and when they awoke in the morning in question, seeing a fleet of canoes on the beach, they took them for their friends. They were, however, soon undeceived, for the visitors fell upon the unarmed people and made great slaughter. The pa was quickly taken. About one thousand of the Kai Tahu were killed and many more captured. The chief Rerewaka was one of the captives. The pa was plundered, the Ngati Toa feasted upon the dead, and the remaining captives were taken to Kapiti. Rerewaka was tortured and put to death.”
  
  http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-PybMaor-t1-body-d5.html
  
  Given his slaving and massacring surely the ka mate haka should be de platformed .
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:52am
- KevO'Brien
  
  That was the Maori’s conclusion too. The Treaty was for the Queen of England to extend her protection.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:51pm
I remember when

While we are feeling great about our anti-nuclear stance in the keeping nuclear submarines out of our territorial waters, might it be time to consider so other points.
Like the fact that the Chinese navy is now the biggest in the world.
Their fleet now numbers 350 warships as against a US total of 293. (11/9/20)
Also the Chinese fleet is expected to continue growing while the US is likely to grow smaller.
It’s not about being aggressive , it’s about having a deterrent so that you never have to fight.
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September 19, 2021 9:54am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Raw ship numbers, like raw numbers of troops, are not a great indicator of actual military capability.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:29am
  - cmm
    
    To an extent.
    
    As Stalin said: “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:47am
  - PhilBest
    
    So Mikey, what are you in favour of? Perhaps some strike jets armed with anti shipping missiles? Are you really about value for money in a REAL defence force, or are you unserious about defence, period? the latter is the problematic position with most on your side of politics.
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:11pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’d favour a maritime-based unified defence force, instead of the myopic pursuit of army capabilities (because they were cheaper and had more appeal for peacekeeping). Three or four frigates (properly armed, unlike our Anzacs), a tanker, two multi-role transports. Air capability to be helicopters (not sure if one type would suffice for maritime and mountain jungle work), maritime patrol (can include anti-ship missiles), and transport. Actual strike aircraft would be nice to have, but lower priority than the above.
      
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      September 19, 2021 5:59pm
- Cinematic
  
  Meh, the Chinese are hopeless at war.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:30am
  - Taieri
    
    Meh, the Chinese are hopeless at war.
    ————–
    
    That’s why their civilization is probably the oldest continuous one in the world…
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:07am
    - Cinematic
      
      Not saying they’re can’t survive losing wars and suffering from multiple occupations. But that’s different to starting and winning a war.
      
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      September 19, 2021 12:28pm
    - NoFax
      
      The CCP destroyed Chinese civilization with the Cultural Revolution. Taiwan is the only country that has traditional Chinese culture.
      
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      September 19, 2021 7:44pm
- Adroit
  
  It’s an overblow situation (so to speak). The US Navy has something like twice the tonnage of the PLAN, so even though they have more ships, they are smaller, less capable, and definitely made to a worse standard.
  
  While their ships are getting better, there is plenty of footage of their ships being swamped at sea because of the poor engineering work,
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:54am
  - cmm
    
    Tonnes of ships mean little if they do not match the threat.
    
    On 9/11, all the American aircraft carriers were no match for a handful of guys armed with $2 box cutters.
    
    I think China is playing a very long game here. I doubt there will be a war in the next 5 years. More likely it’s going to be in 15 or 20 years. In that time the picture of who owns what will be very different.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:25am
    - MCos
      
      That’s what people were saying 15 or 20 years ago.
      
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      September 19, 2021 11:47am
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Could be another arms race. Just what the world needs.
      
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      September 19, 2021 12:01pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      China prefer cyber war to physical. They seem to have captured the USA in a silent operation. Very clever changing votes remotely. It appears to have caught or compromised some of the top political strata previously so everything has gone moderately peacefully.
      
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      September 19, 2021 12:59pm
      - RichardX
        
        Very clever changing votes remotely
        
        Why do you still believe Mike Lindell’s version of events?
        
        How did you independently verify that what he is telling you actually took place?
        
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        September 19, 2021 5:08pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I’ve seen sufficient of the data packets with the MAC addresses. Those have been tested by third parties.
        Despite that, things may continue as they are. At least a nominal state of peace reigns.
        
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        September 19, 2021 6:01pm
      - RichardX
        
        So….the same method that led you to believe there is a new power source that defies physics.
        
        Good to know the standard of evidence required to convince you.
        
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        September 19, 2021 6:51pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Does anyone else appreciate Richard X’s dedication to refuting Kev’s ignorance?
        
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        September 19, 2021 7:28pm
Yvette

While we concentrate on covid, is all else “water passing under the bridge”?

“3 Waters” seems to involve a $65 billion “margin of error” (if you look at it that way) –
A ream of studies released today in the government’s drive to overhaul New Zealand’s decrepit and sometimes dangerous water systems, forecast $120 billion to $185 billion in extra investment would be needed by 2051.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443888/new-zealand-water-infrastructure-spend-could-reach-185b-by-2051-studies – dated 2 June 2021

How accurate is anything else regarding this issue?
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September 19, 2021 10:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  How accurate do 30-year estimates need to be?
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:30am
  - JamesP
    
    It depends if it’s something you care about (like the mortgage or retirement) versus something you don’t care about ($60 billion of other people’s money).
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:02am
  - Taieri
    
    How accurate do 30-year estimates need to be?
    ————-
    
    As accurate as estimates of global temperatures and sea level increases in 2100.
    
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    September 19, 2021 11:09am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

Word coming through from the Viaduct this morning ……
Ork will definitely be back to Lv3 on Wednesday.

Meanwhile….things are getting REAL ugly across the ditch.
Police in Melbourne attempt to repel hundreds of ‘Anti-lockdown Protestors’ with Batons and Oven Spray.

https://twitter.com/davidestcourt/status/1439070855418368000
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September 19, 2021 10:25am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Foolish police perhaps underestimated the depths to which those deluded fanatics would go.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:32am
  - kowtow
    
    Yes ,the Victorian gubbermint is notoriously extreme.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:55am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Beautiful. That’s what I call direct democracy.
  
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  September 19, 2021 10:37am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Meh. Knowing Melbourne it’s a fair bet that most of that crowd voted for their current government and Premier.
  
  The Proles, including the cops, getting it good and hard. Always love seeing that.
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:18am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  How will we tell the difference between L4 and L3? Apart from pick-up take-aways?
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:30pm
ABS4EVA

30 minutes on the Cross Trainer

Bla Bla Mongrel Mob

How much per member of the Mob
did they get as part of the
Kumbaya Koha?
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September 19, 2021 10:40am
cmm

The banning of antibody testing in NZ is really censorship – banning of the information it provides.

Antibody tests are not medicine. They are not ingested by a person. Therefore they should not be controlled by drug control agencies etc.

Antibody tests are information providing devices that provide information about the body. Would we tolerate the banning of Fitbits or home pulse-oximeters? So why are we tolerating the banning of antibody tests?

Antibody testing provides very different information from antigen testing. Banning antibody testing is stripping us of very useful information that can be used to determine whether the Fortress NZ policy is worthwhile and when to lift it. It also is vital in determining risk profiles (eg. whether a vaccination is warranted or not).

If we are denied antibody tests then we are being denied useful information. We certainly are not getting all the information that is required for informed consent.
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September 19, 2021 10:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I would like an antibody test. Not likely under these fear porn controlling socialists
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:39am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    All about the governments iterative control cycle. It will happen when “they’ve” got control of how the information used.
    
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    September 19, 2021 12:04pm
All_on_Red

https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-annoyed-his-mask-hides-how-smug-he-looks-for-wearing-a-mask

Steveee Todd is probably still at Church but when he checks in I hope he realises this is Satire…
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September 19, 2021 11:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The vid from that page about iPhones and vaccine id is hilarious.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR_2Von6EPI&t=5s
  
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  September 19, 2021 11:36am
  - artemisia
    
    Can’t wait for IPhone13. At last, subtraction.
    
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    September 19, 2021 3:52pm
kevn

We (NZ) need Steven Joyce and Ian Taylor to sort it.
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September 19, 2021 11:36am
lazza

Storm Clouds sighted

Covid Delta outbreak: Steven Joyce – Small firms bearing brunt of economic pain – NZ Herald as quoted.

What a revelation from Joyce.

Two things.

1. The existential economic pain we are facing, as Joyce portrays it is real! and yet it has to date been largely ignored in the public debate. The bubble/fool’s paradise we live in at present is merely a debt fueled priming of the pump which will end in tears. (see 2. below). Government actions such as wage and benefit mandated increases now appear to have been extremely unwise for an economy already on life support. The air of economic unreality at present, (a reported 2.5 GDP growth! for the last quarter for example) is about to “pop”.

2. We are close to reaching the time when borrowing just to stay afloat in a pandemic has reached its absolute ceiling ($100 BN is it?). Business failures and personal hardship seem inevitable. We can now expect some pretty unpalatable outcomes from the events of the past two years, many unthinkable up till now. They include pension reductions and or means testing, increases in marginal tax rates, capital gains taxes, a GST increase, death duties and maybe even import controls.

Before we write off the mere suggestion of these possibilities consider the possible reactions of a socialist government facing these issues. Their response is quite likely to be a command and control one … it’s in their DNA is it not?

And, as Joyce points out, with their complete ignorance of small business-SME (or any sized businesses for that matter ?), don’t expect to see them embark on any considered, constructive, innovative and strategic rebuilding and recovery programmes.

Of course an alternative less useless government, with any nous one hopes … would likely be “innovative”. Scanning the horizon that government is nowhere to be seen … yet?
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September 19, 2021 11:49am
- Tom Hunter
  
  They include pension reductions and or means testing, increases in marginal tax rates, capital gains taxes, a GST increase, death duties and maybe even import controls.
  
  I can’t see even Labour returning to import controls give how much we voters love all our imported goodies, and I really can’t see pension reductions coming in.
  
  As for the rest of that list? Absolutely. The trick will be to ram them all through before 2023 so that if National win they can be locked in place, ready for National to “manage” the basic stats of debt/GDP to a slightly better place before they, in turn, lose power in 2029 or 2032.
  
  I’ve pegged GST at 20% before the decade is out whether it’s a National-led or Labour-led coalition government, and the CGT is already achieved, if not pure, via National’s brightline test that now merely requires a reduction in threshold.
  
  Debt will drive all this, as Labour know, plus massive expansions in state spending on health and welfare. There’s no need to for them to pass tax increases to pay for it all when you can leave National between a rock and a hard-place as they try to be “fiscally conservative”.
  
  Were I a Lefty – as opposed to just tribal Labour – I’d be feeling pretty good about all this. They’re winning strategically, even if re-nationalisation is still out of reach.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:44pm
  - ecco
    
    Labour will probably resort to low rent wholesale immigration as well, to get the GDP figures up again. There’s always a supply of people wanting to move here, if you aren’t too fussy who you let in. Will just fuel the Auckland property market even more.
    
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    September 19, 2021 7:34pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  This is what I have been saying for some time.
  These amateurs must be called to account for the harm they have done.
  MMP has done a disservice to NZ. It has concentrated on representation not required skills.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:04pm
Centrist

I have an (albeit tall for his age) eleven year-old who got told off by a dairy owner for not wearing a mask when he bought some lollies earlier in the week. When he politely and sheepishly told her that he was under 12, she told him he should wear one anyway! She’ll be losing some business.
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September 19, 2021 11:51am
- PhilBest
  
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/fAKbo9vmNcoB/
  
  12 Year Old Girl Pepper Sprayed & Arrested in Australia for Not Wearing Mask
  
  Who would watch this and approve, and vote for the same crowd again?
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:14pm
- Ed Snack
  
  And given that masks are completely useless against Covid, it’s even stupider than it appears.
  
  Appeals to the fascists among us though, conform or else !
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:56pm
MCos

The French Ambassador couldn’t believe his luck when he was told he was leaving Canberra for a holiday in Paris.
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September 19, 2021 11:52am
- Nickc2
  
  Canberra is fantastic (in the rear vision mirror heading back towards Sydney).
  If Walter Burley Griffin set out to design the least attractive hell hole on earth in the most undesirable place in Aust, he’s earned a knighthood IMO.
  Add to that, the population there are so up themselves they could only be the offspring of politicians past and present.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:19pm
  - PhilBest
    
    A classic cautionary tale of urban planners being given too much agency
    
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    September 19, 2021 4:49pm
Fletch

So now, Dover Samuals wants the Crown to apologize for the caning of kids in school in the 1940s for speaking Maori.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/renewed-call-crown-apology-over-canings-speaking-te-reo-school

TBH, I wouldn’t mind seeing a few TV presenters caned for speaking it when presenting the news….
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September 19, 2021 12:03pm
- MCos
  
  Free speech, as long as it’s in English.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:23pm
- Nickc2
  
  What does Dover want now? If it’s relevance he’s looking for, he negated any claims to that years ago FFS.
  Yes, I’m aware he’s sniffing around Nania Mahuta for a job come the Great Maori Reset.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:29pm
  - kowtow
    
    He pissed away all his credibility when he was in the corridor ………of the long carpeted trough.
    
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    September 19, 2021 4:37pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think it was revelations about his sexual relations with a young woman under his “care” that finally put an end to his political career.
      
      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/07/nz-j10.html
      
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      September 19, 2021 7:18pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Soon they’ll be punished for not inserting approved Te Reo nouns into their English.
  
  Compelled speech is the hallmark of totalitarianism.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:33pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, before too long, we will have to have a sticker on everything we buy, including food stating that it has been approved for use by Aotearoans.
    This sticker will be rather like the Halal rort where a stipend is paid to the Muslim faith (in our case, to the Labour Parliamentary Maori Caucus).
    
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    September 19, 2021 1:08pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      What are these things you call Aotearoans?
      Google can’t find Aotearoan(s) anywhere.
      
      Maybe Pot/kettle/black rings a bell perhaps
      Then again maybe not 🙂 😉
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:51pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Update your search engine, we’re now in the 21st century.
        
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        September 20, 2021 4:35am
- Yvette
  
  Fletch, as a kiwiblog commenter linked recently, please see –
  http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-BIM873TeHa-t1-g1-t2.html
  PETITION OF WI TE HAKIRO AND 336 OTHERS
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:40pm
  - Fletch
    
    Astounding ?
    
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    September 19, 2021 1:11pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It was his own ilk that wanted Maori ceased. It was obsolete in the 1930’s. It had a small use for genealogies but that was a reserved right to the select.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:06pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Despite the downticks, this is exactly correct. Educated Maori lead by Sir Apirana Ngata reasoned that the children spoke Maori at home and needed to learn enough English to speak outside the home, so English was mandated at schools. At the time, being strapped or other physical punishment was the norm in school, you could have been strapped for getting too much of your spelling wrong, so it isn’t the extreme that it appears to people today.
    
    So this information must be expunged from memory and the “correct” interpretation provided – it was nasty YT that mandated this and therefore should apologise and pay even more money to a atone for it.
    
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    September 19, 2021 2:03pm
    - kowtow
      
      Indeed, across the Anglo sphere you got strapped for just about anything ;
      
      being left handed ( how unjust was that )
      not doing your homework
      not remembering your tables etc
      
      And as to the being bashed for speaking Maori ;
      
      ‘For many years the insistence on English was generally accepted by Māori communities, who were secure in their Māoritanga and wished their children to be prepared for success in the Pākehā world. ‘
      
      https://teara.govt.nz/en/maori-education-matauranga/page-3
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:06pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Most children arrive at school speaking a language.
      
      They don’t acquire their first language at school… They learn it at home.
      
      Hubby couldn’t speak English when he started school… but he could speak Russian and a little German.
      
      He has never had any interest in furthering his knowledge of Russian and German and stopped speaking in those languages as soon as he was exposed to English.
      
      His younger sister, by contrast, is fluent in Russian, German, English and French.
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:52pm
- Prince
  
  When do I get my apology for corporal punishment at school ?
  Money is not the issue, although a koha commensurate with my exalted standing would be appreciated, and some recognition of the mental anguish, pain, indiscrimate application and sexual grooming aspects should be taken into consideration.
  I’m thinking high $x,xxx, say $9,000 should help my recuperation.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:48pm
MCos

I see that rally in Washington in support of the Jan 6 mob drew a larger than expected crowd.
https://twitter.com/segravesnbc4/status/1439263677312557056?s=21
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September 19, 2021 12:03pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  True. By all accounts, most of the crowd in attendance were the Feds who organised it. The majority of active participants in any overt and organised right wing group in the US are federal agents, or at least paid informants. They create the appearance of the problem they want more resources and jurisdiction to solve. Nobody was going to take the obvious bait.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:28pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s a very convenient belief to hold.
    
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    September 19, 2021 2:10pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      It’s not convenient or inconvenient, it’s simply a fact. This is why nobody has been charged with any “insurrection” offences with respect to 6th January.
      
      https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/stewart-rhodes-oath-keepers-missing-link-fbi-unindicted-co-conspirator/
      
      https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/federal-foreknowledge-jan-6-unindicted-co-conspirators-raise-disturbing-questions/
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=187vrqpP7GE
      
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      September 19, 2021 2:47pm
- Adroit
  
  And the only person that was arrested for weapons was an undercover cop!
  
  That whole operation was clearly a false flag.
  
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  September 19, 2021 12:35pm
Fletch

Interesting article, “The More Israel Doubled Down on COVID, the Worse Things Got”. It makes a case that more shots and boosters = more Covid cases but that in areas of ultra-Orthodox Jews (who refused the shot and lockdowns etc) that infection rates are way lower.

Israel does have a COVID success story, which ironically occurred where its government most failed to implement its policies. Unlike most of the Israeli population, its ultra-Orthodox largely shunned lockdowns and vaccination early on, leading to a high rate of natural infection, followed by natural immunity and long-lived protection (pdf). The ultra-Orthodox represented 4 percent of Delta cases, according to Israeli Health Ministry data in August. Overall, Israelis with natural immunity represent 1 percent or less of Delta cases.

The same phenomenon of acquiring natural immunity appears to also apply to Sweden, which adopted policies diametrically opposed to those of Israel—no lockdowns to speak of, no shut down of the economy, few restrictions of any kind. As a result, Sweden’s population is believed to have acquired an early herd immunity, before the vaccinations became widely available, leading to only a modest hit to its economy, manageable loads at its hospitals—Sweden’s hospital system never exceeded its capacity—and, since June, an average of less than one COVID death per day.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-more-israel-doubled-down-on-covid-the-worse-things-got_3995451.html/
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September 19, 2021 12:36pm
Master Mariner

Well its nothing new. Just the obvious.
Mz seafood companies have a cool stores full and no way to get to market.
So all primary producers now struggling.

https://gcaptain.com/maersk-gives-bleak-operations-update-amid-unprecedented-supply-chain-chaos/
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September 19, 2021 12:39pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  It was obvious a year ago, The Perils of the Modern Supply Chain:
  
  One of the biggest impacts of JIT systems was that factories would no longer have to keep an inventory of parts for building things, or at least only a very small inventory. This produced huge cost savings; no longer were huge warehouses for parts needed; no worries about the parts or materials deteriorating while waiting to be used; forcing efficiency on the entire production line because there was no longer “slack” in the system. Every material and component arrived “just-in-time” to be used.
  
  And the system has been applied far beyond the world of factories making cars and other machines. You can apply the method to almost anything – including food production.
  
  Most of that post studied only the internal US food problems, but it was always going to be world-wide across almost all product you can imagine:
  
  A lot of things are going to be re-examined in the wake of this pandemic, which has revealed less a problem with human resistance to disease than a frighteningly thin level of resilence in many of our public and private systems. Turns out that reliability has a cost all its own.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:14pm
- kowtow
  
  And it’s not just int’l , now the link between the islands is tenuous .
  
  Amazing how little attention our team of $55 mil gave this.
  
  ‘New Zealand’s supply chain is in for a challenging few weeks with two out of three Interislander ferries out of service, the ferry operator says.’
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/126425203/challenging-few-weeks-ahead-for-nz-supply-chain-with-two-out-of-three-interislander-ferries-out-of-service
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:41pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Bluebridge must be doing a roaring trade, and being privately owned they are probably better at scheduling their maintenance because if somebody fucks up there are repercussions, unlike in Government entities.
    
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    September 19, 2021 5:12pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  And with all that unsold product sitting in cool stores the local prices have been going up through the roof. You would think that because supply exceeds demand that local prices would come down. Go figure!
  
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  September 19, 2021 8:01pm
Chuck Bird

I just watched the SpaceX with 4 civilian crew splashdown off Florida. Is not private enterprise great?
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September 19, 2021 1:09pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  John Glenn was reported to have said “as I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind – every part of this rocket was supplied by the lowest bidder.”
  Yes, private enterprise is great, but only a large and powerful government could marshal the resources required to reach the moon in the 1960s.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:39pm
  - greybeard
    
    You still believe they went to the moon in 1969?
    And back?
    With no problems at all?
    OK……..
    
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    September 19, 2021 5:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Good one…
      
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      September 20, 2021 7:02am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Not the way I would like to spend 3 days of my life, but great that the folks are back ~~on terra firma~~ in mari.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:42pm
Maggie Pie

NZH BREAKING….

Mt Roskill resident Mr. Ganesh Goundar peers thru pink lace curtains at what he thought was a ‘plane crash’ on top of his house….. (see pics).
Pleased to see clothesline still standing.

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1439361681776332801
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September 19, 2021 1:09pm
Cinematic

It’s clear now gangs are the reason for the long tail in Auckland. Jacinda says authorities are dealing with ‘large households’ and one of todays unlinked cases is a prisoner now in custody who came to Auckland from Thames.

L3 from Wednesday looking increasingly unlikely.
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September 19, 2021 1:21pm
- dcrane
  
  Do we know if he picked it up in Thames? Unless they find someone else from the family that just traveled there from Auckland, that alone would prove Level 4 in Auckland is not going to eliminate the virus, because it is circulating regionally at a low level.
  
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  September 19, 2021 2:55pm
  - dcrane
    
    OK from this evening’s news maybe we can guess he got it in Mt. Eden somehow, since that has been a region of interest for a while, although it’s odd that nobody else at the prison has tested positive.
    
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    September 19, 2021 10:31pm
Wired-one

24 new cases today. If Auckland goes to level 3 tomorrow, they could’ve been in level 3 many weeks ago. You can’t lock down the country for one traced case and then unlock Auckland for two dozen community cases, several that are not yet linked. Either its another week in level 4 for Auckland, or Ardern is going to have to spin this for all she is worth.
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September 19, 2021 1:25pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  She’s very good at spin, as we all know.
  
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  September 19, 2021 5:14pm
I remember when

Another yellow card for a dubious incident in the Wallabies v South Africa game.
Is it time for everyone to get together and work out exactly what they are trying to prevent, and how this is best achieved.
There are very few ‘shoulder’ charges in rugby and many of the “offences” are the result of players trying to ‘pull out’ of tackles.
Not wrapping the arm around the player being tackled is often because to do so would result in a damaged arm.
The tackler is often compromised by the attacker deciding the point of contact, rather than the tackler.
If it takes up to three or four minutes of watching replays at great reduced speed, with four officials adjudicating, is it just too hard.
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September 19, 2021 1:33pm
70andstilllearning

Just watched the 1 p.m. PM presser.
More cases but more importantly more new households. Can anybody here tell me at what point ” a very long delta tail ” ( her words) needs to be redefined as endemic. Or more importantly, if it isn’t endemic what is Level 5 going to look like to kill the tail?
Can’t help feeling that this is starting to look like Sydney/NSW.
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September 19, 2021 1:44pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Up to 24 today, higher than two weeks back. This is not getting better. If the govt truly want to eliminate they need to tighten up ‘leakage’ on the Auckland communities where it is still spreading, perhaps rigidly quarantine suburbs where virus is detected in the sewerage, and relax on those where it is absent – (for all the crippling ongoing economic harm it is doing).
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:54pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And if Auckland drops down a level this week, you really will have to wonder why it couldn’t have dropped 2 weeks ago when Sunday 5th September had only 20 new cases.
  
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  September 19, 2021 1:59pm
  - kowtow
    
    And if it does drop a level while there are still cases in the communidy why did we all have to wait for 14 clear days in the past , if we were following the science then , why doesn’t that science apply now .
    
    ( I stand to be corrected on the 14 clear days , but that’s my recollection)
    
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    September 19, 2021 2:13pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Perhaps they are starting to take into account the DEADLINESS of the infections?
      
      Asymptomatic spread is a plus, not a minus.
      
      I wouldn’t be surprised if NZ’s natural advantages started to clearly show up in an outlier-low IFR so that all the concern about “cases” starts to look a bit naff
      
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      September 19, 2021 4:54pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    It’s clear that if we are still aiming for elimination, then Auckland has to remain at 4. But there is considerable economic and political pressure on Labour to move to 3. The chances of elimination at level 3 look very remote. We could be in level 3 for ages – almost certainly until Labour decide the enough people in whatever segments of the population ghey deem important have been vaxxed. Which could see Auckland increasingly isolated from the rest of the country and more arrests of people travelling across the borders. My guess is that 4 is extended. If not, I expect level 3 for the rest of the year. If they do extend 4 I still think it is unlikely they will get to zero cases in the next week or so.
    Whatever happens I expect the next few weeks will be a disappointment to all. Seymour is saying we should name a date and recommend everyone gets their Vax shots before then. The only reasonable plan from here IMO.
    
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    September 19, 2021 2:29pm
    - Cinematic
      
      It’s such an obvious strategy perhaps it’s too obvious for Jacinda and her team to grasp. Get out the crayons.
      
      But no, it’s extreme health advisors such as Baker and Jackson that are running this show.
      
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      September 19, 2021 2:49pm
    - dcrane
      
      Seymour’s comment is spot on. Some of us will not choose to be vaccinated as long as we know the risk in the population will remain very low indefinitely.
      
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      September 19, 2021 2:53pm
    - ecco
      
      The chances of elimination at level 3 would be the same as at level 4. There’s clearly a subset of the population not complying with the rules when they have covid in their midst. Ardern and Blofield need to give more details on which suburbs the virus is circulating in and also a break down of the demographic of the people in hospital. Details of their BMIs would be helpful for the rest of us to know as well.
      
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      September 19, 2021 3:28pm
- Stu2
  
  Almost all the cases are in existing households, and isolated already. Fine.
  
  But what the never tell us is how covid got into those households in the first place.
  
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  September 19, 2021 2:20pm
  - PhilBest
    
    I suggest they often don’t know because they are looking for the wrong means. People should be asked where they spent a long time in a poorly ventilated environment, that would tell us a lot more than trying to trace every single person they were ever within 6 feet of for an instant.
    
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    September 19, 2021 4:56pm
    - greybeard
      
      People can be “asked” until the cows come home but if they tell lies to cover up their indiscretions or the indiscretions of their family members then we will get nowhere.
      
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      September 19, 2021 6:22pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Got into those households weeks after rigid lockdown was in place. Unless it is work related there is no excuse.
    
    Problem here is that you can’t punish people who get sick or noone who is sick will ever come forward. You can only punish people caught breaking quarantine.
    
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    September 19, 2021 5:37pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      You can catch the virus anywhere you are allowed to go. The supermarket, pharmacy, petrol station, etc.
      
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      September 19, 2021 5:55pm
Nickc2

Britain runs out of CO2 Gas
Where’s Wussell Norman and James Shaw when you need them? Come on guys, Britain’s run out of CO2 Gas and they’re desperate.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10005291/Meat-supplies-run-two-weeks-Christmas-dinne
Get your arses over there and show them how’s it’s made. You can cite NZ’s expertice in this field if necessary.
Oh, shit, James Shaw’s already on his way there isn’t he?
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September 19, 2021 1:48pm
Pheobe

6 years ago our daughter had a cochlear implant put in she said it’s been the hardest and best decision of her life. I thought I’d share her first experiences with you.

Some of you have been asking me how my implant going since my first switch on. Well! It has been almost two weeks now. The first day of my switch on, all I could hear was a beeping sound. Every time someone spoke it just beeped. I was warned that this might happen and it could take weeks before I start hearing voices. Fortunately for me I was able to hear voices within an hour of my switch on. I was able to recognise Brett’s voice and my dad’s but I struggled with my kids voices. It didn’t sound natural or normal.

The first week was really hard and everything sounded so loud. I get very tired as my brain has to adjust to the new different sounds. At first it’s just very noisy and nothing makes much sense.

After a second week, I’m starting to pick up new sounds and recognise what it is.

So, new sounds I’m hearing :

1. The water boiling from the kettle.
2. I can hear the click of my own keyboard. At first it sounded so loud and horrible. But I’m getting used to it.
3. I can hear the tapping on my fingers as I text on my iPhone. I never thought you could hear it.
4. The stirring from the spoon in a coffee cup. It’s so loud!
5. Yesterday, for the first time I can hear the blinkers signal in my car.
6. I can hear my kids voices as if they are in the same room as me. (Not what they are saying) Sometime I think they are being too noisy I turn around to tell them to turn down their voices but they are not even there.
6. At first I couldn’t stand the sounds paper or a plastic bag makes, but I’m getting used to it.
7. This morning I went for my hour walk and I often walk pass the ponds and the bush walk. For the first I time I could hear either a frog or a cricket. I can’t tell what but I know it’s something like that. Also I can pick up some kind of birds chirping in the tree. It’s not clear but I know it’s a bird.
8. I can hear my high heel against the titles. It’s so loud!
9. I can hear my own breathing sounds. I never thought you could hear your own breathing.

I still find it hard with just the implant for everyday conversation. I still rely on lip reading and still use my other hearing aid on my other ear. Because being deaf from birth and having a profound hearing lost and not being able to hear much for 40 years. It can take up to a year or more before I can hear sounds more natural and normal. Also I have been told that I will hear environmental sounds before I can understand speech sounds without lip reading. So I have still got a long way to go.
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September 19, 2021 1:57pm
- dcrane
  
  That’s fascinating, thanks for sharing. Can the implant signals be tuned/adjusted to de-emphasize the higher frequency sounds? These are less important to speech, and many of the sounds she describes as being loud are higher frequency.
  
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  September 19, 2021 2:50pm
  - Pheobe
    
    She has regular appointments, to have adjustments done.
    
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    September 19, 2021 3:37pm
- Cinematic
  
  Wow, fascinating! What an amazing experience she’s living. Please do keep on sharing.
  
  Such a nice break from the covid 🙂
  
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  September 19, 2021 2:52pm
- Jack5
  
  That’s one of the most interesting posts I’ve read on Kiwiblog, or any other blog.
  
  Thank you for describing a transition from the world of silence.
  
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  September 19, 2021 3:03pm
- kevn
  
  @Pheobe… Great she got the implant back then. I have an idea the funding for such was cancelled in recent times.
  
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  September 19, 2021 3:06pm
  - Pheobe
    
    Yes sadly that is the case, at the time it was suggested just to get the one ear done as in future years, further progress would be made and she could get an improved model, but at this stage who knows when this will happen. She is the first deaf deputy head of a high school.
    
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    September 19, 2021 3:40pm
- artemisia
  
  Thanks so much, very interesting and big ups to your daughter.
  
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  September 19, 2021 4:28pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Phoebe: That’s fantastic! Welcome to a full on world… how amazing. ? ??
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:30am
- GJM
  
  My father had a cochlear implant. After battling increasing deafness for years and becoming more isolated, it was a life changing thing. I can’t remember the cost, but it was money well spent.
  
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  September 20, 2021 4:50am
Yvette

Winston on Q A’ _
“The Prime Minister’s been great in formulating the concern, but the back up, the hard work on the ground and all the details seems to have shown some serious lapses,” Winston Peters said.
– Winston, complaining of some non-delivery of this bloody Labourless Government, when about all he is now noted for is his delivery of this bloody Government era (or error), despite the way the voters had voted – except for those who gave Winston their vote to use as he saw fit.

From the same item – As of Saturday’s Covid-19 update, there has been more than 4.63 million Covid-19 vaccine doses administered in New Zealand to date.
But – Media release – 19 September 2021 – Vaccines administered to date (total): 4,684,416; 1st doses: 3,078,338; 2nd doses: 1,606,078 – so those fully vaccinated (two doses) are only 32.12% of the whole Team of Five Million.

Thus we still have a little way to go to reach Winston’s target –
“Peters added that a Covid-19 elimination strategy is “not going to succeed” and that New Zealand now needed vaccination rates of 85 to 90 per cent to get the economy back on track. He said we should have those rates of a vaccinated population already.”

Well, Winston’s last sentence could be right.
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September 19, 2021 2:24pm
- krazykiwi
  
  A high vaccination rate won’t get the economy back on track. In fact, that rate has nothing to do with it. We have circa $150b in debt, and it will take consistently disciplined fiscal management for 20+ years for get our economy back.
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:05pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Care to rank that debt per capita or as % of GDP against other developed nations?
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:22pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    And our current useless Government has no idea how to make that happen.
    
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    September 19, 2021 9:53pm
Jibber NO Jabber

Get this guy into the Wallabies stat!
https://twitter.com/NewGranada1979/status/1439301302282977281

?
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September 19, 2021 2:26pm
dcrane

Life in a country that didn’t slouch its way into getting the high-risk cohorts vaccinated:

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1439410038423134210
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September 19, 2021 7:29pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  So the swing states are doing much better than the Democrat or Republican strongholds? Or was there some other message?
  
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  September 19, 2021 9:25pm
ABS4EVA

So glad Australia told FRANCE
where to stick their Subs

I mean a Country that had to be save twice
and then Attacked NZ.

Seriously
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September 20, 2021 7:57am

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