Labour and the Brethren
On Monday I got to inspect a couple of extraordinary documents. They were minutes of meetings between Labour Cabinet Ministers David Benson-Pope and Pete Hodgson, and Exclusive Brethren members.
The Brethren were so proud of these meetings that typed up notes of them. And I mean typed up. I presume they are banned from using computers so the minutes looked like they had been lovingly prepared on a manual typewriter – complete with uneven lettering, smudges and all.
Now it transpires that not only did the Brethren meet the PM twice (she claims they were not planned meetings, but the Brethren say there were) but they also met no less than five of her Ministers. And there is no doubt from those minutes these were planned, prepared meetings.
Now Clark would have you believe these scary Brethren were so bad she needed extra Police security to protect her from them. I’m surprised she hasn’t ordered the Police to taser any Brethren member on sight the way she goes on about them. The minutes tell quite another story with the meetings with her Ministers. The Ministers went out of their way to be receptive to the Brethren’s messages, agreeing with them on many issues such as Defence (pointing out the money they have spent on the Army) while disagreeing with them on others like civil unions and nuclear ships. No improper behaviour, it was a typical try and convince a group of NZers that they should support you. And the Brethren went out of their way to thank Ministers for previous policy concessions such as their exemption under the ERA.
Now it is interesting to contrast the helpful friendly Hodgson and Benson-Pope when they were trying to win Brethren support with what they now say (Hat Tip: Clint Heine):
Pete Hodgson (20 June 2006) “… a very strange group of white men who don’t even vote, who put a million dollars on the table to help the National Party…that is a very strange group of people”
DBP (22 Nov 2005) ” …they (National) tried to buy the election with its tax cuts and its underhand campaigns, financed by strange sects and shady deals with industry in return for favours that the voters were never supposed to know about”
So what do we take from all this? Well it destroys the myth that the Exclusive Brethren were somehow controlled by National and operating as a secret front for them. They were doing what groups interested in politics do – meet with MPs to advocate for policies they wanted.
Upon getting the go ahead from on high to start taking an interest in politics, they undertook a series of meetings to learn about the parties and politics. They met not just with MPs and political parties, but also with other people (Owen McShane has commented here on how they approached him) as part of their shall we say steep learning curve. Their wish list of desired policies is almost laughably naive. Former Brash Chief of Staff Richard Long has written about how appalled National was that the Brethren were trying to campaign on the nuclear ships issue, when that was the last thing National wanted in the public arena. All very clear that any influence National had was minor.
The Brethren did two major things wrong, IMO.
1) They should have called a press conference before the pamphlets went out explaining who they were, and what they were doing. If they had done that, the pamphlets would have been a big yawn.
2) Their hiring a private detective to spy on the PM was an appalling lack of judgement, which has rightly led to widespread condemnation.
But those two mistakes don’t change the underlying reality that there was no grand conspiracy. They advocated for a set of policies they believed in, met with MPs from almost all parties, and then advocated against the parties whose policies they most oppossed.
And it is a good sign of the tolerance of NZers that most NZers (see CB poll) are rejecting Clark’s attempts to muzzle the Brethren, even though very few would personally approve of what they advocate. It’s called freedom of speech, not just speech we agree with.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Dear Prime Sinister: open mouth, insert other foot?
April 26th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Only about a month ago Labour were targetting Bill English for having a meeting with some of his EB constituents. They are shameless.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:39 am
Further evidence of the arrogance that has overtaken the government. Helen would never have dropped such a clanger in her early days. She must have been aware of these meetings before going into full attack mode on the EB following the last election and ever since. If not, then her MP’s have stitched her up beautifully.
Helen said on Tuesday, that she felt she was being stalked by the EB. What a feeble attempt to down play the political significance of the revelations that her own crew had been meeting with the EB.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:02 am
David
c’mon you believe anything the Ex. Bretheren say ?
Shame on you
Obviously since they were typed you can’t check with the computer file to see when they were created (I suspect it was last Monday)
A phrase comes to mind, ..grasping at something.. um straws, that it…
April 26th, 2007 at 9:08 am
But why is it the Labour Party can gain traction on this issue making the National Party look bad when they themselves probably had more contact with them. If National MPs cannot turn the tables on Labour on this they do not deserve to be in politics. I am sick of the lazy attitude of National politicians who just seem to lie down and play dead. If they do not want to fight to win Government, then piss off and let other members of the National Party step in.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Yeah right Simon, Hulen is the source of all truth and honesty.
There’s some straw grasping going on here certainly.
Times up socialist boy. Your Dear Leader has successfully located New Zealands bullshit threshold.
She went past it at 170kph.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:16 am
A quick point and a question.
1. The evidence is from the Brethren themselves, Sorry but I’m not willing to accept their word as gospal truth.
2. How many millions of dollars did the Brethren spend running an anti-National campaign at the last election.
“there was no grand conspiracy”
So why did Brash have to resign Mr F?
April 26th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Simon,
c’mon you believe anything Helen Clark says?
Shame on you.
A phrase comes to mind, BUSTED!
April 26th, 2007 at 9:22 am
I’m still waiting for TV1 to find this story newsworthy, yet the accused EB sex offender was headline item. But I’m sure TVNZ knows best what the NZ public need to know.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:37 am
OMG…..Sonic! How can you defend the indefensible? Neither of the labour MP’s have denied the meetings. Helen’s only comment was that they’re allowed to meet whomever they want. No denial there. But they stalk her, so she’s off the hook for her numerous meetings.
Brash resigned because of the poor way he handled the whole mess following the election. It was the right thing to do. Which means that no labour MP or the Prime Sinister, will do likewise, because they have no honour.
Helen made this mess by her personal attacks on Brash, English etc. If she doen not come out today and criticise her own MP’s then Labour may as well just stand up and give the one finger salute to all NZ, in public, on TV.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:44 am
“I’m still waiting for TV1″
Yeah, exactly, and this whole thing shows what influence the Labour party has over NZ’s mainstream media, mainly in their concerted effort to discredit the Brethren with a smear campaign orchestrated by Labour’s back room boys and implemented by their journalist hacks.
Not once were any questions asked. There was no investigative reporting. and even now they’re refusing to address Helen Klark’s arrant hypocrisy. In true Marxist Stalinist propaganda style, it was just get the message out guys- Brethren bad, National bad by association.
Mind you the National Party were as useless as usual, with Bill English kicking the Brethrens just the way the Labour party wanted him to. If the Nats had got out some real alternative viewpoint on this, and known and publicised the fact that Labour also met with the Brethren, they could have neutralized the government/ mainstream media propaganda campaign.
NZ is in the grip of a Stalinist cadre extending from Helen Klark’s beehive office and her massive propaganda unit right down to the desks of the so called journalists writing pro Labour party bullshit for TV One and the Herald.
Its notable that most of the stuff on this has come via the internet and blogs. Keep it up guys, send those losers at the Herald and TV One to the wall.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:48 am
1.1 Million bucks Craig, still the elephant in the room.
I’m amazed none of you get the hint, every time you raise the issue you lose support, keep it in the headlines if you want, your loss.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Hahha, suddenly the creeping little Stalinist thug doesn’t want the Brethrens in the headlines.. ..read the poll results loser, you’re wrong, your scummy plans aren’t working..
April 26th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Could it be, The Hollow Woman!
April 26th, 2007 at 10:00 am
“David
c’mon you believe anything the Ex. Bretheren say ?
Shame on you
Obviously since they were typed you can’t check with the computer file to see when they were created (I suspect it was last Monday)
A phrase comes to mind, ..grasping at something.. um straws, that’s it…”
Should read:
Simon
c’mon you believe anything Nicky Hagar says ?
Shame on you
Obviously since the emails were stolen you can’t check with the computer file to see when they were recieved, from whom, and if they were read (I suspect you wouldn’t want to know)
A phrase comes to mind, ..grasping at something.. um straws, that’s it…
April 26th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Waiting expectantly for these documents to be published and then lets see how legitimate they are. Just because you say you have seen them david doesn’t make them genuine.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Ok, you want to see the minutes? Fair enough but the Ministers concerned should also release copies of their diaries to prove that no meetings were arranged for the times.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Hahhaha, suddenly the George Bush National Guard lynch mob is concerned about the legitimacy of the Brethren documents…
April 26th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Even if they are fake they’ll be accurate….oh wait, that is the socialist defense of documents.
Why do the Clarkists refuse to believe the word of a group who so far haven’t lied, against the word of a woman who has proven time and again to have been and therefore still is a liar.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:46 am
” group who so far haven’t lied”
Giving a false name is not lying now? fancy that.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Why didn’t this come out when Dr Brash & National were under such heavy fire from Labour about meeting with the Brethren i.e. during the ’05 election campaign.
I remember thinking @ the time that surely Labour ministers would’ve met with the Brethren even if it was inadvertently. It’s hard for a anyone to categorically deny meeting with someone from the Brethren because how do you know – they look like regular people after all.
So I reckon even if the Nats didn’t have hard proof, they should’ve just thrown the accusation out there & see what came of it.
If the Brethren attach was neutralised it would go someway to counter Labour’s stolen $820,000 worth of electioneering & we might have a Prime Minister Brash today. How how I wish it to be true.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:34 am
DPF. From your look at the minutes the EBs had written up, did it appear that these were scheduled meetings with Ministers, held in their Parliamentary or constituency offices?
Or were they ambush-type meetings as Helen Clark alleges?
I find it hard to believe that the EB would write up minutes of an “ambush” meeting. So I’m a little sceptical of Helen Clark’s comments. I’m inclined to think it’s an attempt at misdirection …
April 26th, 2007 at 11:48 am
” find it hard to believe that the EB would write up minutes of an “ambush” meeting”
Why not if they were running an organised campaign.
Of course who gave our host these “minutes” is another interesting question.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
The way that the Bretheren acted in the run up to the last election has rightly been called naive.
Many of their other actions have been rather clumsy too.
It would do well not to forget that there are some business men from some fairly successful businesses involved. These people are not stupid, and to expect them to continue to act stupid is probably not wise.
Larry Williams on Newstalk ZB on Friday was predicting that there was more to this story than meets the eye.
Whilst I in no way approved of the EBs use of PIs, it is also worth keeping in mind that Idour the PI said that he had found some very damaging stuff on some Labour MPs. We have heard nothing since, and whilst it is likely that was just hype, it may not have been. If anything of substance does exist, you can expect to see it released in the run up to the election (rather than mid-term, when the fallout is easier to contain).
April 26th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Just wait till it comes out that the Brethren met with the Greens sonic. U might have to change your party affiliations altogether!
April 26th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
NX, if they start paying $1.1 million dollars to try and get the Greens elected I’ll certainly think about it.
April 26th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
They looked very much like prepared meetings. To be fair to Clark I have not seen the notes from her meetings.
The minutes are very funny in some ways because they keep using the same arguments, such as against civil unions, by asking Ministers why they don’t allow people to do a civil union with their sister if they do allow it with a same sex partner. Quite batty, but genuine.
And no great mystery to my seeing them. A press gallery journalist showed me their copy. I assumed that most of the gallery have copies.
April 26th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
I was expecting a more unequivocal answer – but pot & kettle & all that.
I know facts get in the way of a good story BUT;
- $1.2 million was their budget, $500,000 is what they actually spent(IIRC).
- the Brethren didn’t campaign for the Nats, but rather against Labour & the greens. You may not see it but there is a clear distinction.
April 26th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Thanks for the clarification David.
NX, technically true but Hager’s book has the information that Brash knew about it and regarded it as a “parallel” campaign.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Hmm…parallel, ie meaning what parallel means Of, relating to, or designating two or more straight coplanar lines that do not intersect.
Do not intersect….Yep, not a bad comparison Sonic, well done.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Notice the little “quotation” marks Mr Oil?
Brash’s words not mine.
Of course that word has many definitions, I think Brash meant it in these terms
“having the same direction, course, nature, or tendency; corresponding; similar; analogous: ie Canada and the U.S. have many parallel economic interests.”
April 26th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
The Ministers involved could clear this up in five minutes by showing their diaries to the Press Corp. Why do they not do this? Perhaps because it is true?
April 26th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Klark knew about the $350,000 PPTA anti-National campaign & regarded it as a “parallel” campaign to Labours. What’s your point?
April 26th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
“I think Brash meant it in these terms”
Got that mind reading ability working again I see sonic.
Could we see something other than your assumptions as proof?
April 26th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
How could a decent, caring and truly wholesome, group of honest and hardworking democratic socialists, such as those key figures in the Labour Party, hold clandestine meetings with wierd, right-wing religious cults ?
April 26th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
“I think Brash meant it in these terms”
You have the comprehension skills of a sardine Sonic. If you “think” Brash meant one thing, its odds on he meant something entirely different. Anyway, Brash isn’t the issue. The most obvious outcome of this is that Labour with their illegal use of taxpayer’s money to fund their election spending, and their meetings with the Brethren are not only thieves, they’re utterly deceitful thieves.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
The EB have come out with this to make Labour look bad as they seen the damage caused to the National party. Why did they not come out with this before? Because it is a set up! The EB are out to destroy labour, that is their goal. They really are sneaky e.g anti green campaign.
Oh and I have typed up minutes of my meeting with Elvis so I must have met him aye?
April 26th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Sonic channelling Don Brash…Jeff typing up minutes after his meeting with Elvis…you leftoid boys are getting a wee bit rattled…eh!
April 26th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
“Klark knew about the $350,000 PPTA anti-National campaign”
And so did everyone else, thats the difference chaps, union support for Labour is public and open, they are not skulking around in the shadows using false names and hiring private eyes.
Keep raising the issue though, always such a vote winner for you!
April 26th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
$350,000 campaign, must say I didnt know that. Thats outrageous, and these guys complain about being poorly paid.
Tell me sonic, how much influence does this $350,000 bribe buy the PPTA from Labour. This sort of corrupt influence must be stopped.
I mean, its not even anonymous so there must be influence obviuosly. What a disgusting abuse of our democratic process. Surely the left will unite with all NZers to stamp this out.
BTW I view the zealots in the PPTA as bad as the EB’s.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
“they are not skulking around in the shadows using false names and hiring private eyes”
They are tho stealing money to pay for campaigning material. The Brethren money was their own.
They are tho putting out propaganda using taxpayer resources.. “you’re better off with Labour” The Brethren money was their own.
They are tho using taxpayer funds to finance a whole propaganda department (Klarks media division) The Brethren paid for the pamphlets with their own money.
What’s more, the Brethren never signed any paintings they hadn’t done either.
What I’d like to see is some investigation into Mr. Idour’s claims that the Labour Party hired detectives to dig dirt on National politicians. Any truth to this Sonic??
April 26th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Captain Crab, it’s open and public. Any voter can look at it and decide if it should affect their decision.
Hardly “corrupt influence” when everyone is aware of it.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
And everyone knew about Brethren activities from the media. Captain Crab is spot on with his assessment – it’s ‘cash for policy’. & you wonder why NCEA is screwed up?
But nice try @ changing tact sonic. Keep ‘em coming.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
“And everyone knew about Brethren activities from the media”
Only because they got caught, a burgler cannot claim to be acting in an honest way just because he got nabbed on the way out of the building.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
“And the Brethren went out of their way to thank Ministers for previous policy concessions such as their exemption under the ERA.”
That exemption goes all the way back to the Labour Relations Act 1987. So rather than initiating that legislation, labour has simply neglected to remove it. So it’s not so much a policy concession as an acceptance of incumbent policy.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
And a voter can’t decide whether a pamphlet attacking the Greens/Labour should affect their decision? Que squirming now.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
All those wars and all the struggle and sacrifice just to have one week day without the foreign invader sonic was worth it.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
No-one is squirming about a discussion of the Brethren old bean, well apart from the National Party that is.
There is a simple rule in our system, if you bring out material during an election campaign you admit who you are. This means voters can take into account the source of the material and the motivations of those publishing it.
All very simple really, surprised that you have a problem grasping it.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
You have to do something illegal (like stealing tax payer money to fund you campaign) to get ‘caught’. Seven individuals claimed responsibility.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
DO YOU LOT TRUST HELEN , i really started to dislike this women, years ago, while driving to a sports avent in Napier in the pouring rain,with my wife on a Friday afternoon,(PAINTERGATE) the police (AGAIN)had decided that honest helen had done wrong but they were not going to proceed. I spoke to my wife and said shes like a UNI educated P dealer from the RIGHT family ,untouchable ,HELEN LIES(stretches truth) with a smile on her face and i dont give a shit about saying it (SO THERE SONIC) nothing,you say will convince me this SHALLOW women should be respected ,( DO YOU LOVE THE DISGUSTING AIRBRUSHED PICTURES)vain shallow women ,Never be a cop protecting helen ,do wrong serving her and you are hung out to dry and sonic protects her ideology. .HELEN is bigger than the labour party ,is the future labour party bigger than her halftruths???
April 26th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
“you admit who you are”
Their names were on the brochure you smearing lttle weasel.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
I believe the name on the pamphlet was one of the Brethren seven & satisfies the legal requirements. But some argue that Exclusive Brethren should’ve been included.
For example ‘Joe blogs – Exclusive Brethren’.
Or
‘Sonic – homosexual train spotter’.
The question is where you draw the line?
April 26th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
HAhahah.. that’s quite funny Murray..
Actually, didn’t Helen Klark (or a spokesperson) threaten to withdraw the Brethren’s exemptions because they met with the Nats?? What utter stinking hypocrisy. What a Stalinist abuse of power.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
My understanding is that at least one of the pamphlets had a false name on it. Oh and NX, the personal insults do not win you any arguments around here, I am very upset about being called a train-spotter of all things!
April 26th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
“My understanding”
Come on then smearer- what was the false name?? Or are weak Stalinist false allegations and baseless smears all you’ve got??
April 26th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Sonic – did lester the child molester from the EB met with Klark bitch ? Lester had a yarn with panty slut boy !!
April 26th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Lester the child molester had alot of talks with many liarbour Mps !!
April 26th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
> Could it be, The Hollow Woman!
Sure as hell could be, as I’m sure she hasn’t been filled in ages
April 26th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
One more point, anyone claiming there was no plan, just a few individuals acting on their own, has to explain how exactly the same pamphlets were produced in Australia, and the same tactics used by our Brethren friends in both Sweden and the USA.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
I was talking about another sonic I know – which backs up my point perfectly. A name on its own it meaningless which suggests having ‘Exclusive Brethren’ after the name is important.
But there are ethnical considerations about forcing one to include their religious identification. Should a non religious person write ‘atheist’, or include sexual orientation? I’ll leave you to mull over that one.
And yeah, I wouldn’t like to be called a train-spotter either.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Sonic – have you had a session with the EB -lester the child molester ? That could explain alot about you !
April 26th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
I use a Microsoft Word template – does that mean I’m in cahoots with Bill Gates?
April 26th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Just a few individuals…
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/the-influence-of-hidden-prophets/2006/07/01/1151174401719.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2
April 26th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
There is a MS word template for anti-green propaganda?
Wow!
April 26th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
No answer.. thought so, just the usual leftist lies and smears..
April 26th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Would be if I emailed my copy to you
. But it would be entirely up to you as an individual whether you use it or not.
Oh & it wasn’t propaganda, the pamphlet had citations to the Greens website. So essentially is was a policy advertisement for the Greens – should be pleased sonic.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Sonic did lester the child molester from the EB have a yarn with you also ?
April 26th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Sonic – didn’t get the name of the Ms attorney general who signed off that other child molester that worked for crown law ??? what was his name again???? maybe lester the child molester from the EB club can share a cell with him . Lester does like panty slut boy !
April 26th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Redbaiter, to be honest I do not even read the rubbish you write anymore, same for your chum Dad4Justice.
So don’t waste your time addressing me, not worth it.
Propaganda can haev weblinks NX.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Sonic – haha what a weak person !!! Snake – frank wankster go play with yourself you git !!
April 26th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Can you please ban D4J? His posts are just embarrassing spam now and ruins an otherwise fine blog.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
I may ban myself as I am suffering badly from the effects of sonic alert.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
I think some people are missing the point. I do not think there is anything wrong with meeting the EB per se. There is only something wrong if you attack others for doing so or deny it.
It is much worse to let them fund huge propaganda campaigns to help you win and turn a blind eye.
They are a sinister bunch and should be avoided but they aere still Kiwis and they should be listened to nevertheless
http://redrasputin.blog.com/
April 26th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Sonic said “Only because they got caught”
Applying that logic, does he means that Paintergate was wrong “Only because they (She) got caught, or,
Speeding motorcade was wrong “Only because they (She) got caught”, or
Taito Philip Field’s immigration assistance was wrong “Only because they (he) got caught, or,
Rorts of the election funding rules and rules on use of the Leader’s budget were wrong “Only because they got caught”, or,
DB-P assaulting students was wrong “Only because they (he) got caught?
Clark and her cabinet have lied to and misled the public on this issue, and have destroyed the reputation of a group of religious adherents. Will they have the guts to ‘fess up and apologise, now that “they got caught” – I’m not holding my breath.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
I don’t like you red raspution – infact I think you should be called red wet the bed -raspusbrain.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
D4J, Forget your afternoon medication.
April 26th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Stupid John Dalley get up from the mud you gutless wimp, as it ain’t no disgrace for a man to fall, but to lay there and grunt like a pig is !!!
April 26th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Sonic
A quick point and a question (or two):
You’ve been in NZ about 4 or 5 years now, correct? Assuming the mandatory waiting for your Permanent Residence to arrive (two years), that would mean you’ve been eligible to vote in NZ for just the one election. Would that be right?
So when you say:
“There is a simple rule in our system…”
are you referring to NZ’s system or the system back in your homeland?
Thanks, ‘mate’.
April 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
SONIC (HELENS INFORMATION SPOKESPERSON) hell you must be jumping with joy, the bill will be passed very soon ( wait for the first blow by blow account of the first trial) of parents sitting side by side while the local CYPS rep,sitting ready to upload the poor beaten child and put it under the care of your local gay labour supporterAPPROVED CARER(it going to be great tv )crying parents,screaming kid ,pink shirted labour party member.( IS IT FANTASY,WHO,KNOWS IN OUR COUNTRY NOW,im sure you be there SONIC
April 26th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
BAN d4j and redbaiter, hell i think this blog site is been targeted by every card carring labour supporter, its just a BIG feeling things and the tone of the posts have changed, MORE STRENGTH TO THE ABOVE GENTLEPEOPLE(who knows)i dont, wind up sonic,and the labour supporters.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
BAN d4j and redbaiter, NO, hell i think this blog site is been targeted by every card carring labour supporter, its just a BIG feeling things and the tone of the posts have changed, MORE STRENGTH TO THE ABOVE GENTLEPEOPLE(who knows)i dont, wind up sonic,and the labour supporters.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Anybody think it slightly odd that the EB has taken this long to correct Labour? It all sounds very fishy to me. Perhaps the EB has finally woken up to the fact that they are masters of the own-goal universe and decided to send the ball downtown. Or something.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
The Labour/Socialist/Commie/Appeaser/Academic/Wankerati who infest this site seem to have forgotten the age old Chinese principle of Death By A Thousand Cuts. This is what your glorious leader is being delivered, courtesy of the Exclusive Brethren. There will be much more to be carefully dribbled out to the media.
Your scrawny leader has again totally mmiscalculated the reaction to her vicious and uunprinicpled attack on a groupf New Zealanders whose only crime was to campaign naively. Her arse and yours, sonic et al, is about to be chewed up and dragged through Dodge City before being ignominiously buried without ceremony in the Boot Hill of political has beens.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Nice, Adolf, nice
April 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
As I said the Brethren should have declared their campaign publicly, so it would then be like the PPTA. I don’t think many people dispute that they should have been public about it.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
ben
“Anybody think it slightly odd that the EB has taken this long to correct Labour?”
I think they have been giving Labour enough rope to hang themselves.
Seems to be working well so far !
Timing is everything in politics, as Adolf has suggested, I think all they have done so far is put the noose around their own neck, they will kick their own chair out from under themselves some time before the great lolly scramble of 2008.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Main point:
Helen is caught out lying again
April 26th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
“Redbaiter, to be honest I do not even read the rubbish you write anymore,”
So what’s with the response? Are you so conditioned to lying you do it this casually?
“So don’t waste your time addressing me, not worth it.”
You said one of the Brethren had used a false name. This is a lie. A cowardly smear. All you had to do was identify the false name, instead you wrote more lies. You’re as broken down and deceitful and as desperate as the Labour Party Sonic.
BTW, is this claim not to address Redbaiter going to be as worthless as the usual stuff, where you say you’re going away and turn up again five minutes later? What an abject loser.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Just what is it that gets under the skin of many people in this country about the EB? Is it because they are people of a certain religious belief and sect? Is it because the way their women folk dress? Is it because (in the main) they are successful and astute business people? Is it because as a group, they are fiscally competent and well resourced? Who knows? Im a atheist, but if I was to conduct business with the EB vs HC on a handshake, it would be the EB anytime.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Repeat post-
What I’d like to see is some investigation into Mr. Idour’s claims that the Labour Party hired detectives to dig dirt on National politicians. Any truth to this Sonic??
April 26th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
As Adolf said, the EBs are going to slowly release the dirt on Labour – from stealing emails thru to certain ‘husbands’ trawling for illicit sex with boys. Watch this space.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
We shall see Adolf, thats what is nice about reality, at the end it settles every political argument.
I think you underestimate the power of incumbency, especially in the last year of a Parliament.
All fun and games eh?
S
April 26th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Sonic, I was appalled at secret attempts to buy influence at the last election. Such as the unnamed person who offered the Maori party big bucks to go with Labour.
We definitely need to put a stop to this kind of thing. What about a public enquiry into electoral corruption?
April 26th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
A public enquiry into electoral funding?
Now that would be an excellent idea, where do I sign up?
April 26th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
“Where do I sign up?”
I doubt that anyone would want you signing up to any public enquiry.. a cheap and completely discredited liar.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Ah Sonic, there is a difference between “electoral corruption” and “electoral funding”.
Oops, my mistake – we were talking about Labour weren’t we. Perhaps there is no difference after all. Carry on.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Paul Marsden hits the nail on the head.
“but if I was to conduct business with the EB vs HC on a handshake, it would be the EB anytime.”
It’s shameful that Labour has made such a concerted and ongoing effort to denigrate them. The hypocrisy should be astounding…
April 27th, 2007 at 8:23 am
Clint Heine said;
Simon, c’mon you believe anything Helen Clark says?, Shame on you. A phrase comes to mind, BUSTED!
I believe some of Helen’s comments etc, I believe some of John Keys comments but I believe none of the EB’s lies and falseheads!
So I take it you are part of the underground EB cells taking over the National Party ?
This would explain the hand typed, smudged document i recieved in the post that appears to be minutes of a meeting (last tuesday) between the owners of the (national party front)website http://www.clintheine.blogspot.com/ and the EB discussing damage control on the issue of the exposure of EB and national party cooperation in turning NZ into a fundamentalist nation based on white right male (and compliant female) dominated values…
You are like a recently de-nutted dogs whom has one of those cones, funnel visioned, but with a funny side to the spectacle.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Lol – Clint has nothing to do with tories. He’s involved with act.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Labour have completely overplayed their hand on the EBs.
There is now quite a bit of public sympathy for the EBs because of the level of vitriol spewed out by Labour against them.
This battle is politics, and that is all about perception.
Helen Clark was caught out big time with the Bob McCoskrie interview- there is no question that her statements to him regarding S59 were, at the very least, a deliberate deception, and more likely a downright lie.
People do remember that.
Most people without strong party leanings tend to distrust politicians anyway.
The EBs have outmanoevered Labour on this one, and I’m not sure that Labour have realized it yet.
Labour are facing attacks on several fronts at once, and they are not coping well with any of them. TPF & Destiny in Mangare, the Greens bleeding off support with unpopular legislation requests (in exchange for votes in parliament), and National with things like Key’s “reasonable” mediation initiatives.
The fact that this stuff from the EBs has just surfaced is no surprise. Smart money says that there is more to come that is damaging for Labour.
The EBs got slightly smart. They shut up over the PI incident, took the insults from Labour, & waited till people started to think that Labour had gone over the top. Now, with some backing of public sympathy, and Labour (& Clark) not looking good, they have started to counter punch.
Labour is looking very weak and vulnerable at the moment. Yet another bill is in danger of failing (the one about limiting access to personal records).
Someone mentioned death of a thousand cuts. It is pretty appropriate. It is looking like something you would expect to see on the National Geographic channel.
Another problem for Labour is that, as their influence wanes, their ability to interfere in the due process of police investigations is also diminishing. They have gambled on timing charges against TPF to kill off his re-election bid, but they may have already left it too late to call the shots, Doon’s successor will be looking at what happened to Doon, seeing Labour on the ropes, and wondering how he can keep his job under a National government.
Interesting times.
April 27th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Sonic said “We shall see Adolf, thats what is nice about reality, at the end it settles every political argument.
I think you underestimate the power of incumbency, especially in the last year of a Parliament.”
So Sonic, please clarify – are you suggesting that Labour is worthy of our support BECAUSE it is the incumbent Government? Or are you saying that incumbency is the only thing that Labour has going for it any more?
April 27th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Yeah, that really helped them out in 2005.
~2% sonic or around 30-40,000 votes & most of those came from Mangere.
Good luck with that.
April 27th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Hey dad4Justice….i am sure you are a bit of a wanker and probably your ex does and thay is why she keeps you away from your devil spawn so you cannot corrupt them anymore.
See the eyes at our blog….they are looking for you!
April 27th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Simon wins the moron of the week award for thinking Clint Heine is a National Party supporter.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:49 am
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