National not to back compromise complementary medicines bill

August 1st, 2007 at 9:41 am by David Farrar

NOTE: See update below.

John Key has said that it was never asked by the Government to consider the compromise bill promoted by Winston Peters – that only the minor parties were targeted, and that having now looked at the proposal, they would support it.

I suspect the decision may not go down too well with some in the complementary medicines industry. I haven’t read the detailed compromise but if I recall only those who sell in Australia will need to go to the trans-tasman agency.

My concern is compliance costs on the very small traders. Australia historically over-regulates and adopting their regulatory methods and standards isn’t always desirable.

UPDATE: National is not backing the Peters compromise. It seems that John Key said he would back a bill with complementary medicines removed from the regime and the NZ Herald interpreted that as referring to the Peters compromise. It sounds like an honest interpretation mistake but there is the potential for a round of finger pointing between the Herald and on it. Not a great look.

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41 Responses to “National not to back compromise complementary medicines bill”

  1. sam dixon () says:

    With Downer coming to speak at the Nat party conference this weekend, Key was obviously feeling the pressure to grow up and stop playing politics with the issue – wonder if it had been hinted that Downer might become unavailable.

    “My concern is compliance costs on the very small traders.” That’s dumb. You’re saying if you’re a small company you shouldn’t have to go to the expensive of proving your products are safe, and consumers be damned.

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  2. helmet () says:

    Yeah go Sam! The prick’s concerned about compliance costs on small traders, what an asshole!
    I think he was saying he had a problem with the costs of compliance, not the issue of compliance itself, dumbass.

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  3. dave () says:

    I suspect the decision may not go down too well with some in the complementary medicines industry.

    Good. The sooner these charlatans and promoters of snake oil and costly placebos have controls placed on their activities the better for consumers.

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  4. phil u () says:

    think..’apples’..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  5. Henry Abbott () says:

    What a betrayal.

    Shame on you John Key.

    That’s my vote gone.

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  6. David Farrar (1,812 comments) says:

    Sam – the safety issue can be dealt with by existing law.

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  7. Charlie Tan () says:

    So – remind me – how was the initial rejection of the bill not National just playing politics?

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  8. Abel () says:

    Key looks like he might be falling into the DBP trap of being economical with the truth. Winston Peters said in the same Herald article that all parties including National, were sent the compromise, and that Gerry Brownlee received it for National.

    I think given Colin James’ attack on Key over his handling of this has seen him realise the damage he was doing. I wonder how Ryall is feeling?

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  9. sam dixon () says:

    no DPF – that’s the point, therapuetic goods are not properly regulated at the moment here – the deal Key has finally signed on to is:

    - The transtasman agency would regulate all goods destined for the Australian market.

    - Complementary medicines produced only for the New Zealand market could opt to be regulated by the agency or to come under a lighter domestic regime, yet to be established.

    That’s straight from your new employer’s article.

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  10. Abel () says:

    We all spoke too soon – apparently Key wasnt meaning he would support the NZ First compromise, he was saying he would support the removal of complementary medicines. Great so we’re back to square one.

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  11. CraigM () says:

    Given the UPDATE…..

    Waiting on apologies to Key/National for all the abuse & insults given. Any honest men out there who know how to say sorry?

    It may take a while for you all to get your feet out of your mouths as they certainly were forced in there hard…

    maybe I’ll go to lunch and give you guys some time.

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  12. Porcupine () says:

    The fundamental principle is that any product that makes a therapeutic claim should come under the same regulations whether it is a researched medicine or a so called alternative medicine.

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  13. Selma Bouvier () says:

    Its the ‘gone by lunchtime’ saga all over again.
    Someone takes notes from a discussion/interview and writes a report.
    Someone in national says they ‘cant recall saying that’ when it suits them.

    The first gap has opened up for Key – down which he will eventually fall completely.
    looks like Key is nationals DBP in waiting and he aint even a minister/PM yet.
    No wonder English and Brownlee are the ones really running the show

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  14. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,684 comments) says:

    Thermal, it was a blogsting and all the pinko apologist Labour trolls fell right in. Well done, DPF.

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  15. Selma Bouvier () says:

    ..pinko apologist Labour trolls …. like Audrey Young of the NZ herald.

    Fancy her not knowing National has an unwavering policy.

    Quick let Moonbeam decide

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  16. Selma Bouvier () says:

    Audrey Young has let fly in her blog:

    Blog: I’m bloody angry with Key

    John Key has just issued a press statement saying my story in today’s Herald on the transtasman therapeutics regulatory agency misrepresents him.

    I’m bloody angry because his press statement totally misrepresents what took place yesterday.

    He clearly suggested that if Labour presented him with a proposal like the one Peters put up – one that carves out complementary medicines except for those who export to Australia and have a voluntary opt-in – he would sign it.

    I can only suspect that Tony Ryall has gone ballistic and Key has had to back away from the clear and repetitive suggestion he made yesterday in the company of three senior Herald journalists that if he was presented with a proposal like the one Peters put up that he would sign it.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10455127

    Plus the gem :
    Naturally I had my tape running in the interview –
    plus other journalist who will back her up.

    As usual its the toxic Tony Ryall who threw the china at the fireplace when he found out Key shafted him over his policy.
    last month it was Gerry who got shafted over the sudden change in rules on parliament broadcasting.

    Remember guys the benson Pope rules now apply, NO LYING TO THE MEDIA and GETTING CAUGHT

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  17. Selma Bouvier () says:

    The money quote from Audreys tape recorder

    Key: It’s pretty straightforward isn’t it? It’s all very well people having a whack at us, but if they want to bring us a proposal in line with what Peters said on television, we’ll sign it. I keep asking for it. No one has shown it to me.”

    This will wreck two careers, Keys and Ryalls.

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  18. burt () says:

    Selma

    So why is it that all of a sudden you think Key should be subject to any form of checks on what he said. I thought DB-P was unfairly treated and you said he should have been treated like Shipley.

    Is it a rolling target you are wanting Selma, where each case is dealt with in the same way as the last one you remember. You are a sounding more and more unhinged as each post evolves.

    But I think I have worked out the real meaning of what you say: Labour=nice, National=nasty.

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  19. Boysmum () says:

    If complementary medecines and conventional (or chemical) medicines were to be treated equally, that could be a huge plus in cost saving. That is, dietary iron supplements produced in the US are subject to no duty if imported from a chemical company, by a chemical company. If produced by a natural health company and imported by a natural health company, they attract 7% duty. Is this wrong, or what? This affects a huge range of supplements – Vitamin C, iron, zinc, etc etc. It happens because the tariff item for chemical supplements is non-controlled drugs, but for natural ones, it’s dietary supplements.
    Conversely, the tariff item for such as Bach Flower remedies is under vegetable saps and is duty free also.
    There isn’t much rhyme or reason for this, it’s international, decided in Brussels.

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  20. Porcupine () says:

    Its called modern Western democracy – read Redbaiter’s Darymple article and weep for the country.

    But why are the lefties so interested in debating personalities rather than policies – could it be that their worried people might wake up and realise that quackery is healthfraud and it will get taken off the ACC?

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  21. Selma Bouvier () says:

    What policy is that porc.

    The new one John Key said to the tape recorder or the one they had last week that they have gone back to .

    The new one made sense, but the dead wood supports the old one.

    A flip flip is not unusual in politics, but to flip back again? A flip flop flip. Must be how they do things in wall street. Cant wait

    Tune in tomorrow for the latest episode of ‘ Desperate Politicians’

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  22. honey badger () says:

    Porc said: “The fundamental principle is that any product that makes a therapeutic claim should come under the same regulations whether it is a researched medicine or a so called alternative medicine.”

    Yeah good on ya Porc – I’ll just be competing with unscrupulous merchants who sell the same products with me, only they will withhold honest therapeutic truths / claims about them and so avoid compliance!

    Or, I could write & publish a book about their therapeutic uses, but make no claims about them on the shelf – so avoid compliance myself!

    I really thought we’d been through this. You have not read the legislation, you have not thought laterally about how detrimental and counterproductive it would have been.

    You really should too before you come out with all your kneejerk reactions about “quackery” bla bla bla, yet again.

    Please don’t start with all that “left – right” stuff with me either – you will never guess my politics yet how ironic that you accuse “lefties” of being into personalities only – I’m debating an issue here not leftie or rightie personalities – how about you?

    I am PRO REGULATION as you know, and was only turned against this legislation when I started really reading it and the rules and regulations –

    Riddled, I tell you, riddled with inconsistencies.

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  23. sam dixon () says:

    Key’s been caught out straight lying in his press release now that Young has releaseed the interview transcript. Is this how honeymoons end?

    fasinating to watch a political disaster unfold as we have this morning – lucky Farrar told us about the nat press rleease so quickly, so we could see the first stages of this debacle unfold in real time.

    There’ll doubtless be more to come from this – obviously Key won’t be stepping down over it, although a spokesperson would have to. Can’t see how Ryall could make himself the scapegoat, although it was probably him throwing a tantrum behind the scenes that caused that lying press release to go out, besides Ryall’s not the kind to go to the wall for the greater good.

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  24. Porcupine () says:

    Yes honey I know there’s some reasonable people out there. As I’ve said I think it has a place, so you have convinced me that this particular legislation was no good. As long as things meet certain safety standards I don’t really care too much what people do as long as I don’t have to pay for it. But I do resent it being added to my tax bill and ACC levy.

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  25. Ross Miller () says:

    Well Selma … methinks you protest too much but I guess anything to take the heat off what by any stretch of the imagination has been a less than perfect week for Labour.

    Have just finished reading the entire blog … the salient point to me was the comment that a Press Statement by Peters did not constitute a proposal. Peters has of course continued to maintain the fiction that NZF is not part of the Government. So, what have we … a Press Statement by (supposedly) a non government party … and nothing to back it up. An arrogant Government not prepared to take National into its confidence and paying the price for that, and John Key saying that if the Government can come up with a compromise Bill (something more than a Press Statement) that meets National’s objections then maybe progreee can be made.

    Much ado about nothing.

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  26. Michael S () says:

    Does John Key actually know what he stands for? Ever?

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  27. Greg Spark () says:

    Unbelievable;

    Kedgely crusades on high standards and accurate contents labelling of processed foodstuffs. But when it comes to complementary medicines the wild west rules apply (or east, if produced by a cottage industry on the Coromandel!)

    And National support this position. As if the hypocrisy and political expediency of this is not enough Key now flip flops on what he said – this is quite clear from Young’s transcripts of the interview (if they are indeed transcribed correctly of course). Best spin would be that he was being DBPesquely economical with the truth.

    And I am a National supporter (at least up to now??)

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  28. Selma Bouvier () says:

    More fool Key if he is on record supporting Peters proposal without knowing what it was- “put it in front of us and we will sign it”

    Audrey did a double take and gave him a chance to correct himself but no he was firm , until Tony Ryall bitch slapped him and dictated this morning press release.

    I think we have a new moniker
    Compromise Key

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  29. sam dixon () says:

    Michael S -

    That’s the big question.

    So far, all he will tell us is that he doesn’t stand for some of the unpopular things that Brash stood for. Is it any wonder some of us worry that he might not be up to the job, or that he’s got the same old agenda but is hiding it?

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  30. sam dixon () says:

    His name’s John Key, and he’ll be whatever he needs to be

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  31. John Dalley () says:

    And the unravelling of John Key and National begins.
    14 Months to go, what fun.

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  32. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,684 comments) says:

    Troll alert!!! The combined wisdom of Thermal Bloviate, Sham Dixon and the Drunken Golfer. You blokes couldn’t even piss sitting down, let alone brew up a storm in a tea cup

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  33. Inventory2 () says:

    Adolf said “Troll alert!!! The combined wisdom of Thermal Bloviate, Sham Dixon and the Drunken Golfer.”

    Well said Adolf – all that’s needed is McSonic to complete a quartet of trolls.

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  34. sam dixon () says:

    Adolf – just because we’re saying stuff you don’t want to hear doesn’t make it trolling.

    Key has been caught in a big lie and its all come aobut because the Nats wanted to embarrass the governemnt rather than pass a good law. Got any defence for JK? No? Didn’t think so, that’s why you’ve resorted to the namecalling.

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  35. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,684 comments) says:

    Sam, you’re pissing in the wind. Go home and have some Bovril.

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  36. Selma Bouvier () says:

    By the way Im a blokette!!

    We are just faithfull followers of dear leaders wisdom

    .. if they want to bring us a proposal in line with what Peters said on television, we’ll sign it. I keep asking for it…

    Will they sell this quote as a ringtone!!

    Watch out ,the right wing clobbering machine will have to gear up for this one.

    1 August 2007 The day the music died!!

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  37. Peter Cresswell () says:

    “Does John Key actually know what he stands for? Ever?”

    No.

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  38. AGJ (552 comments) says:

    By the way Im a blokette!!

    Is that some kind of Shemale?

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  39. honey badger () says:

    Good one Porc

    Hey what does one call someone who simply comes along to heckle the trolls, and does not / cannot comment on-topic himself?

    I await more witty plays-on-words

    *yawn*

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  40. Selma Bouvier () says:

    If the Keystone Kop hadnt made such a big deal about DBP he could have got away with his misrepresenation ( or lie).

    It all comes around.
    The faithfull will stick their blinfolds on but the media wont wear it one bit.

    Trying to con three journalists with a tape recorder..

    I suppose we will have English back chaperoning Keystone Kop at his interviews like he did for the first 6 months.

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  41. frederico () says:

    For the terminally confused on the left. Here are some examples of lies.

    “I had my head down and didn’t notice we were travelling at 170km/h”

    ” That is my painting, look I signed it”

    “Of course this pledge card thing is legal Margaret”

    “I have never heard of Madelline Setchell”

    ” I have never had a complaint against me as a teacher”

    ” We will return to the top 10 of the OECD”

    A misintrpretation over semantics over a bill which the lame duck government cant pass, is admittedly clumsy, but hardly the stuff political collapse!!! But still, they are very very desperate at the moment…. so let them have their fun

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