Easter Sunday ban on comments
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm by David FarrarSeeing that the powers that be have declared Easter Sunday so sacred, that shops can’t open on it (despite not even being a public holiday), then it is only fair I aso impose my personal wishes on everyone else and ban comments from appearing on Easter Sunday, so people will spend more time with their families.
However l’ll let comments start up again early afternoon, once everyone is back from church.
Tags: Easter, Kiwiblog, shop trading hours
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Since you’re a non-observant Jew DPF I’ll cut you some slack due to your ignorance, for mocking the most sacred period on the Christian calendar.
I look forward to your reaction to my mocking Yom Kippor in similar ways.
[DPF: You can mock Yom Kippur as much as you like.]
Vote:March 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Best I get in now then!
Vote:March 22nd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
First
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 12:24 am
Fair enough, it’s your blog you can do as you please.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 12:25 am
12:23, can I comment?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 12:58 am
What about bloggers not currently living in NZ? And for those of us in Muslim countries, well blogging on Easetr Sunday is probably required by law.
By the way, the fact that Easter Sunday is sacred – or rather a Holy Day and therefore a holiday – has nothing to do with the powers that be. Thank heavens.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 2:10 am
hah… stupid fucken law.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 2:13 am
snarky.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 3:14 am
Yay!
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 4:16 am
Aren’t you Jewish?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 7:19 am
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10499641&pnum=2
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 7:53 am
I won’t comment as I have to go buy my coffee, go to the market, then get to church. too busy to comment.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 8:01 am
Really ? Shops can’t open on Easter Sunday ?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 8:27 am
David.
As one who works in a retail outlet, let me tell you about how things are. Public Holidays are crazy in a shop. Foot Traffic is huge, and the turnover is double, or triple what you might have on a normal weekend day. As a result, the call goes out from management for all hands on deck.
Management leaves us in no doubt that we are required to work on these days. We can opt out of course, but such an action will be noted. Does it matter that some of us actually want to spend time with our families? Do shops really need to open 365 days a year instead of 361.5?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 8:31 am
Christ is risen!
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 8:59 am
If you can see this comment, then there must be a glitch in the ‘ban comments’ feature.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 9:09 am
DPF –I have to say that I am appalled by your action !!
I am being denied my human right to have my say – my right to free speech!
I ask “Who do you think you are?” Anyone would think that you own and control this website. You are as bad as those poor people in Alice Springs who think that they can decide who stays at their place.
I can hear people all over the country (perhaps even the world) bleating out that ‘My rights are being denied me – I should be allowed to post comments whenever I want to – 24/7’
Anyway – I am now off to church where I will pray for you, and if I am allowed I will sacrifice my first born to the God of Human rights in the hope that you will be cured of your wayward habits.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 9:21 am
You are kidding?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 9:26 am
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Down with the Zionist Crusader running mutant pig-dog fascist pinko-fag simp infidel censor!
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Um, what do you suppose makes all those people want to suddenly shop on public holidays, slightly?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
I got so much work done this morning.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm
slightlyrighty, your complaint isn’t about whether or not people should be allowed to work at Easter, your complaint is about whether people should be forced to work. I think we all agree that people should not be forced to work. Unless you can show that it is impossible to allow people to work without forcing people to work, then your comment is basically useless to this discussion.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Paul.
Go to a major store tomorrow. See how busy it is and try to guess how mad it would be if only half the staff were working because the other half wanted to spend the day with their family?
I know that if half our staff were not to turn up to work tomorrow, it would be a disaster.
Anyway Paul, given that shops are open in NZ 99% of the days available in a calender year, do they really need that extra 1%?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Tomorrow’s crush will come from today’s (and Friday’s) trading ban.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Paul,
What you’re talking about cuts to the heart, I think, of a lot of difference of opinion in political and economic issues. Here are two ways of looking at the same situation:
1. If low-wage workers aren’t forced to take any days off a year, they will work every day of the year and pocket any accrued holiday pay. Therefore, to stop legally requiring a few days off is to ensure they work every day.
2. If low-wage workers have the option to work on these days, whether they choose to or not, it will be their choice, and so they are responsible for whether or not they have any days off in a year.
The first attitude is a combination of assigning responsibility to the environment and responding with a paternalistic government response.
The second attitude is a combination of removing responsibililty from the environment and providing workers with an individual choice.
I think that this difference of attitudes underlies many traditionally (habitually?) left/right divisions.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Great idea! How about tomorrow as well? And Tuesday’s a “university holiday”, so could we squeeze that in as well? And…
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Are those who went to a vigil service allowed to comment?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
slightlyrightly
You make a good point. The answers to your questions, I would say, are 1) yes and 2) no.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I didn’t realise the internet was on on Christian holidays. When did they stop turning it off?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
slightlyrighty, the point is that you shouldn’t have the right to decide for them. If people don’t want to shop, they won’t. By your logic there are a whole lot of things we could ban. I personally get annoyed at people who drive SUVs around in the city when they don’t need one. It screws up my visibility in my little car, and puts me at risk if they drive into me. It would be great to pass a law saying that you aren’t allowed one unless you need one – need being defined by some combination of living in an area that requires 4WD, number of people you need to carry etc etc. But I recognise that is personal choice at work – part of living in a capitalist society. Why can’t you accept the same on shopping days? Or have you found that evidence that “allow” and “force” are synonyms?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 5:49 pm
PaulL
Your point seems to be that having one wrong or inconvenience justifies another.
As far personal choice and living in a capitalist society goes, I’m all for both as much as is reasonably possible. The question is: where do you draw the line, or, indeed, is drawing any line necessary? I think it would be a good thing if we had some days of the year when the shops are closed. The advantages seem to me to far outweigh the disadvantages.
The economy exists to meet the needs of people, not the other way around.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 6:11 pm
kiwitoffee: but I don’t understand why. You are removing people’s liberty when you prevent them from doing something that they might otherwise want to do. You are presuming you know more than they do about what they need, and presuming that if you leave them alone they will somehow make a choice that is “wrong.” To justify an intrusion like that into people’s lives you really should have a very good reason. I haven’t seen one, can you articulate one?
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Further
The economy isn’t a thing that can be served. The economy is simply the aggregate of a whole lot of people making individual choices. It sounds a lot less threatening when I rewrite it as ‘The (aggregate of all the people) exists to meet the needs of the people, not the other way round.’ In fact, it sounds vaguely silly.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 6:23 pm
“As far personal choice and living in a capitalist society goes, I’m all for both as much as is reasonably possible. The question is: where do you draw the line, or, indeed, is drawing any line necessary?”
A true Capitalist society is based on the recognition and protection of individual rights…these being Life,liberty,property and to purrsue your own happiness as you see fit provided you respect these same rights for others.
Any action or activity that violates another persons rights by force against themselves or their property is wrong and the state has the role of preventing it and punishing the offender on our behalf.Outside of this limited role the State has NO part to play at all….if it tries to it becomes itself a rights violator and an enemy of free people and must be fought.
Nearly all of the social ills and conflict we see about us can be traced back to the State exceeding its bounds and trying to interfere where it has no right to.Chain up the State and watch life get a lot better for all Kiwis as a result….
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 6:28 pm
PaulL
Well, I don’t consider having shops closed for a few days of the year (say, Christmas, Easter, ANZAC, Waitangi Day) is an intrusion. Quite the opposite, in fact. Having shops open nearly all the time is the intrusion.
There are limitations to the personal responsibility and personal freedom argument. Some people want to drink and drive, others want to avoid paying any tax at all and we don’t leave them to do this even if they themselves might enjoy exercising such a freedom.
Shopping appears to have become an end in itself. Of course, I need to buy much the same things as most other people. I’m neither a hermit nor an ascetic. But NZ seems to be awash in advertising and suffer from periodic feeding frenzies. Having the shops closed from time to time would help counter this trend and give us some time to stop and focus on other, more valuable things to do (starting perhaps with doing nothing).
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
PaulL
“Well, I don’t consider having shops closed for a few days of the year (say, Christmas, Easter, ANZAC, Waitangi Day) is an intrusion. Quite the opposite, in fact. Having shops open nearly all the time is the intrusion.”
Says you….but what right do you have to force others to obey your dictates? If you don’t wish to shop then fine…thats your right…but others have the exact same right to freely interact and trade…thats the balance we accept for having our own liberty respected. Personally I don’t feel the need to rush out shopping on Stat hols unless I need something but why prevent others who do from doing so? Everyone involved consents to the process….they may prefer to be doing other things but lifes about choices and making them.
“There are limitations to the personal responsibility and personal freedom argument. Some people want to drink and drive, others want to avoid paying any tax at all and we don’t leave them to do this even if they themselves might enjoy exercising such a freedom.”
A person’s individual rights are limited by the fact that other people have the exact same rights….all humans do by virtue of being born human.Wheather they are allowed to exercise them is another thing depending on their situation but they have them non the less.In other words your right to swing your fist ends where another persons nose begins…if theres no nose in danger then swing away.Druck drivers are violators of other peoples rights and its perfectly right and just to lawfully deal with them….they are swinging their fists with disregard to the noses of others about them as it were…Not so shop owners and shoppers who wish to consentually interact….no ones rights are violated by this so its none of the States business.
I wish to pay tax either….its wasted and brings me far less benefit than if I could spend it myself besides that its theft and I don’t consent to it.Im pefectly happy to fund volutaraly the State to carry out its legitimate rights protecting functions….and pay as a user of private sector services that I CHOOSE to use…
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Yeah, I’m with you Slightlyrightly. Frankly requiring shops to be shut goes against my ideology but in practice (having briefly flirted with the retail sector during my formative years) you are quite correct to say that the choice to work sounds nice but the practice is quite different. The world doesn’t end just because the shops are shut and most people have a day off three and a half days a year.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 7:53 pm
1. This is a juvenile thread, DPF you are acting like a spoilt brat who is upset you did not get your own way.
2 Those who support 365 day shopping seem to be motivated by the terrible inconvenience THEY suffer because shops are closed for 3.5 days per year, it comes across as extremely selfish and smacks of “how dare they close when I want to shop”
[DPF: No it was highlighting hypocrisy. As for (2) do you know I don't think I have seen anyone who has said they support a change because of personal inconvenience. I think you are inventing your own arguments to oppose.]
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 7:59 pm
I’m quite happy if someone can make an argument that allowing people to work is tantemount to forcing them to work. In the absence of that argument then really what your position boils down to is that you personally don’t want to shop or to work, and therefore you don’t see why anybody else should either. It would do them good to spend time with their family and friends (assuming they have either).
Since that is our position, for what reason do we allow service stations to open, tourist areas to open, brothels to open. Surely all those are unnecessary as well – and surely the people who work in those organisations equally should be allowed to stay at home with their friends and family. And I’m not sure why exactly 3 1/2 days a year is the right number. Why do we allow Sunday shopping – surely 6 days a week is enough? Why do we allow shopping on any stat holidays at all?
The point is that your argument is a conservative argument – what we have right now is exactly right, and any change to it would be bad. There are no other conceivable situations that would be preferable. I don’t see any logic to this at all.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 8:06 pm
big bruv: not at all, you are creating a straw man. It is a philosophical argument, not an inconvenience argument.
Personally I wouldn’t shop if the shops were open, except maybe at the garden centre.
To me the opposing argument appears very selfish – you personally don’t want to shop or to work, therefore nobody else should be permitted to. My argument is that if you don’t personally want to shop or to work then you shouldn’t be forced to. But if you want to do one of those things then you should be allowed to.
What problem does it cause to allow people to work or to shop? Who exactly is it inconveniencing? I’m not asking you to do either. Or are you arguing that you know better than these people what they should want – they think they want to go shopping, but actually you know that it is bad for them. Or they think they want to work and get triple time plus a day in lieu or whatever we pay these days, but actually you know that they are better not to do that, because you understand more about their personal circumstances than they do themselves.
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Paul
Great!..so we who can decide if we work or not have terribly civil “philosophical arguments” while some other poor bastard is made to work.
Vote:Frankly it is a waste of time, things will never change, should the Nat’s ever be so mind numbingly stupid as to introduce this into the house when the become the govt they will be hading the next election to the socialists on a plate.
March 23rd, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Its about liberty and human rights people……if you respect them leave the shop owners,staff and customers to trade as they wish…if you don’t role on the totalitarian state….
Vote:March 23rd, 2008 at 11:28 pm
big bruv: you’ve made no argument at all that some “poor bastard” is made to work. I think I have made an incredibly erudite argument that there are some people out there who might want to work that our current policies are preventing (actually, last year I made an erudite argument, this year I haven’t bothered). In short, you have no argument, you are just flapping your lips and saying “but I don’t personally want to go shopping.” By that logic, my father in law would have all the shops shut, because he doesn’t like shopping any day of the year.
Vote:March 24th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Paul
Your arrogance is breathtaking, do you really think the nobody will be made to work on those nasty 3.5 days per year…..really?
Some say it is about liberty and human rights and I agree, it is about the right to know that you will have 3.5 days a year when nobody can force you to work.
Is it really such a big deal?
[DPF: Under Jim Donovan's proposal, an employee will have the right to specify five days a year they can not work. Far superior protection. And you are also wrong when you say "nobody will be made to work" under current law. What you mean is "No body who is an employee in a retail industry who lives outside a tourist area". I would have to check but that is probably only around 10% of the workforce]
Vote:March 24th, 2008 at 9:50 am
DPF
So the party that says it wants to reduce red tape in business is going to introduce more govt regulations?
You cannot have it both ways DPF, either you go the whole hog and insist on 365 day trading with NO employee opt out of you leave it as it is.
Do you want the Nat’s to be the party that allows Xmas day trading?
One more thing, I fail to see why tourist area’s have an exemption at all.
Vote:March 24th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Indeed big bruv – imagine being the Party that stole Christmas. That would make “failed policies of the ninties” seem an easy tag to shake!
Vote:March 24th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
big bruv: I disagree. Your arrogance is breathtaking
My argument is that we should allow people to work if they wish, but nobody should be forced to work. I submit that it is possible to design arrangements such that this is possible. Your argument appears to be that it is impossible to do such a thing, and that therefore nobody should be permitted to work. Which of those two arguments appears the most arrogant to you?
Vote:March 25th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Found this too late but I’ve often thought that people are so desperate to get to the shops on holidays because it’s often the only time they can go there as a family unit and to more than one shop at a time. Shoppers seemed to get lambasted with a bad name because everyone assumes they spend their entire lives at the shops because they’ve gone there during a holiday. It think it is because our shopping hours are quite limited by the daily 9-5 which is when most people are at work or the kids are at school. This is some what solved by malls having late nights but often the shops that open are selective. I admired the Dutch method whereas retail doesn’t open till midday monday morning. This allows those retailers who worked friday night to effectively have their two sleep-ins like everyone else except a day later. The “lost hours” were then made available to shoppers on Tuesday night where all shops opened late to allow office workers to do their shopping then leaving the weekends free and placing less demands on public holidays as shopping days.
Vote: