Blog Bits

June 10th, 2008 at 6:42 pm by David Farrar

Karl du Fresne calls the show on the Pacific immigration debate a gang-up on Dom Post Editor Tim Pankhurst.

Steven Price points out to the Ministry of Justice that their site for court decisions of public interest, is missing all the interesting ones. To be fair I think it is up to the Judge to tick the box on whether it should go there, but regardless someone in the Ministry should use their common sense and make sure the EFA judgements and the abortion law one go up asap. The latest EFA is here for those who want it.

JafaPete asks whether people are just voting for change for change’s sake. He agrees with Chris Trotter that the anti-smacking bill may have been a turning point. He also says the EFA may have had an impact on the Government’s unpopularity.

No Right Turn covers the abortion debate and High Court decision. I am not surprised with the High Court ruling – it has been apparent for some decades that we have a de facto abortion on demand regime, despite a legislative framework that reserves it for serious danger to physical or mental health. Now I support abortion (up to a certain date) on demand and even though it would probably be a very heated debate, the proper way to change laws is through public vote or the legislature – not through the back door. The issues were covered on this blog back in March, and in a sign of hope it was a reasonably rational debate with analysis, not just name calling.

Graeme Edgeler covers issues in the , and does a summary of each of the dozen or so changed. Excellent.

is not a blogger (in fact I would call him an anti-blogger!) but his op ed on inflation is worth reading.

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83 Responses to “Blog Bits”

  1. big bruv (14,163 comments) says:

    I find myself in the uneasy position of agreeing with the judgment of the court re Abortion for the simple reason that it is one in the eye for the hard left and the feminazi movement in NZ.

    I guess that I am also less liberal about these things as I get older, if we must have abortion then the very least we can do is make the cut off date a lot earlier, 26 weeks is diabolical and nothing more than murder.

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  2. jafapete (757 comments) says:

    Big Bruv,
    It’s not just one in the eye for the hard left, etc. Even back in the 1970s, I recall, most NZers supported some degree of abortion on demand, and I doubt whether the proportion of the population has declined. DPF is correct in principle about effecting legislative change on such issues after proper discussion, but the modus vivendi that quickly became established did seem to reflect the preferences of most people, so I’m a little torn about this, and not looking forward to relitigation.

    And thanks for the break, DPF. Very decent. And you didn’t even quote the bit beginning: “My view has long been that hubris would be Clark’s undoing.” Thought that would be irresistible.

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  3. thehawkreturns (162 comments) says:

    Abortion may be a messy business but an on demand service offers the following benefits:
    1. Rich and middle income women don’t have to nip off to Australia, Singapore, China to get one.
    2. Low/income women get one that doesn’t threaten their lives.
    3. On the whole the number of socialist voters is reduced more than capitalist voters.
    4. The number of violent criminals is reduced.

    (Points 3 and 4 take about 18 years to kick in so they are currently effective)

    The right to life lot are a bunch of nutters who get far more publicity than they deserve by the numbers who agree with them.

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  4. tim barclay (886 comments) says:

    Justice Miller has opened up a can of worms with his judgment. We do not have abortion on request in this country but that is the de facto position. For my part the pregnant woman should be allowed to make this decision though in practice I am sure most women in relationships will consult the father of the un-born child, but there should be no LEGAL requirement to do so.

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  5. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Abortion has and will always happen. The ony choice is does it happen in a hospital or in a backstreet.

    I know which I choose.

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  6. LabourDoesntWork (291 comments) says:

    The right to life lot are a bunch of nutters who get far more publicity than they deserve by the numbers who agree with them.

    If what you claim was true then legalising abortion would have been no trouble to do in the first place. It has been de facto on-demand precisely because a) they knew they would lose a debate on the facts, and b) the general public are far more conservative than your feminazi eugenicists are.

    4. The number of violent criminals is reduced.

    This promise was made decades ago by the likes of Margaret Sanger. However in the decades since abortion-on-demand was de facto legalised there has become more violent crime than ever. You may as well claim that Communism works.

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  7. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    “feminazi eugenicists”

    Is that the new definition of women who want to decide if they want to have a baby or not?

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  8. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Abortion has and will always happen. The ony choice is does it happen in a hospital or in a backstreet. I know which I choose.”

    Well, shame you couldn’t have somehow conveyed that message to your parents before you were born.

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  9. jafapete (757 comments) says:

    sonic, Ironically, I think that Labourdoesntwork — who I would take to be no great fan of Labour — mistook thehawkreturns’ left-directed sarcasm as a positive argument from a left perspective. It’s a bit like a feeding frenzy when these righties get going, and they start chewing their own tails off.

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  10. dad4justice (8,313 comments) says:

    Sorry jafapetra the huckster lefty dragons have the shitty tails not the right thinking lads .
    You and sonic been chewing the fat together for long?

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  11. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Indeed jafapete

    Interesting that our chum ratbleater cannot bring himself to make a proper comment, he wants small government, yet one that is big enough to control women’s reproductive organs.

    I can understand and respect that many people having moral objection to abortion however.

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  12. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Here’s a question for you Sonik. Thinking back to when you yourself were in embryonic stage, if you were at that time capable of making the choice as to live or die, what would have been your choice??

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  13. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Still no presentation of your position ratbleater, why am I not surprised?

    Tell me, if as an embryo you knew what a sad little man you would turn out to be, what would you have been your choice?

    Come on Ratbleater, tell us what the “small government conservative” position is on abortion. We are all vaguely interested.

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  14. Nicholas O'Kane (168 comments) says:

    I have already done a long blog post about the court descison.

    As for the morality of abortion, I have always held the belief that life starts at conception, and thus abortion constitutes murder. It is a far more logical belief than birth, because all that happens at birth is the unborn child has its umbilical cord broken and it changes its location (from being inside the womb to outside the womb). There really isn’t a big difference between a nine month year old unborn child and a new born baby.

    In comparison, at the moment of conception, the unborn child is formed from the sperm and egg, and has its own unique DNA, and is composed of living cells. And is a human life. If you ignore those who say they don’t know when life begins, there is a strong scientific consensus that life begins at conception.

    As for the arguement that the fetus is part of the womans body, while it is true that the unbron child is located inside the womens body, it is not part of the womens body. It has its own DNA, internal and even reproductive organs from early on in pregnancy. True, the unborn child may depend on the mother for food and all its needs, and can not survive outside the womb. But if this made the fetus part of the mother, than an astronaut located in and depending on a spaceship for oxygen and food and could not survive outside the spaceship would be part of the spaceship. To those who say a women should be able to do what she wants with her own body, i agree. But the unbron child is somebody else’s body, not hers.

    As for backstreet/overseas abortions, while some women may get these, not all do. And few would argue that as rape occurs anyway, it would be better to have rape legal in safe secure facilities where the victim can be tranquilised and put to sleep, than beaten and forced to experience the horrors of rape.

    I am well aware that those who oppose abortion are a minority, but that does not make abortion right any more than the fact most Americans once believed slavery was right, made it right.

    Oh yes, as for women being forced to get pregnant, they are not forced into pregnancy. Don’t want to get pregnant, don’t have sex. That simple.

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  15. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Sonic. You know more than half the world would have voted an abortion in your case. You are truly a sad little commie tosser

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  16. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    What about when the woman is a victim of rape or will suffer severe medical consquences from carrying a pregnancy to term Nicholas?

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  17. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Sonik- How many times have Kiwibloggers witnessed here your plaintive never ending child like whine to other posters about the need to answer your questions. At the same time as you persistently refuse to answer any asked of you. What’s the word that describes such behavior? Tell you what Sonik, you don’t have to answer this one, because we both know there is no such word in the Leftist’s lexicon.

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  18. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    sonic, care to hazard a guess as to the proportion of the ~18,000 abortions performed last year that would have been in response to such horrible situations? i’d be interested. especially since there’s now some evidence suggest that abortion can have a determental impact on the mental health of the mother

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  19. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Still no answer ratbleater?

    No surprise.

    Why not just push off and leave this thread to people who have a position on the issue.

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  20. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Probably a small percentage Getstaffed, however I’m always interested in guaging how far people like Nicholas would take their opposition to abortion.

    As I said I do understand people who have serious moral/religious objections to abortion, I do however think that people like Ratbleater and Patrick should be ashamed of themselves.

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  21. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Still no answer ratbleater?”

    Ha Ha hah, even too stupid to see how well you’re demonstrating the accuracy of my comments.

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  22. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Sonic. I hear you are a Scottish unionist who couldn’t’ quite cut it in your hometown. Is there any truth to that?
    because that’s very sad considering what a bunch of no hope commies live there

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  23. dad4justice (8,313 comments) says:

    sonic your chip on your shoulder is not a kiwi tradition. Go back to communist Cuba and smoke yourself !!

    Edit – haha Scotland kicked the commie cretin out , haha chronic sonic what a loser.

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  24. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I do however think that people like Ratbleater and Patrick should be ashamed of themselves.”

    ..and you imagine I or anyone gives a fuck what a little weasel like you might think? Get a life.

    …and you don’t know the meaning of the word shame you sniveling little hypocrite.

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  25. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Patrick, I know I’ve made a fool of you a couple of times lately, but showing just how gutted you are over it is not a good look.

    I know its hard, but put the shame behind you and move on. You don’t want to always look like such an angry and sad little prat do you?

    Any chance we could now get back on topic?

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  26. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Wow I’ve got three of the seven dwarves tag -teaming me now!

    Amusing, but slightly tragic.

    Perhaps you guys should get a room?

    Topic?

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  27. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Sonic. I’d have to ask when you believed that was?

    Answer the question Sonic? are you you are a Scottish unionist who couldn’t’ quite cut it in your hometown?

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  28. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Poor Patrick, he has been desperatly searching for a way to win a battle of wits when it is clear he is unarmed.

    Topic Patrick, argument, thats how you win debates.

    Not throwing mud at the wall and hoping a bit might stick.

    Or is it that you want to know more about me personally?

    I’m flattered Patrick, but I’m in a relationship.

    Topic anyone?

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  29. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    topic? yes, interested in your thoughts.

    (but not interested enough to stay awake. night!)

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  30. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    I’ve already made my position clear getstaffed, I believe in a women’s right to choose.

    Abortion happens, always has always will. Society decides if it is done safely or in the backstreets. I always find it instructive that many of the people (although not all I hasten to add) who talk about “the right to life” do not extend that right to young girls dying of septicemia:on kitchen tables.

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  31. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Battle of wits?.It’s not hard when you’re only battling against half the expectation

    I’m asking you because I really want to know why the fuck you believe you can come to this country and make it as sad as the one that kicked you out?

    Why don’t you fuck off somewhere else you unfortunate piece of bowel parasite.
    You are really a very sad fuck

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  32. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I believe in a women’s right to choose.”

    ..and you ignore the choice of the embryo, you pathetic trendy brainless little poseur.

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  33. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    A few too many tonight Patrick?

    Happens to the best of us. I’d suggest a couple of aspirin, a glass of water and off to bed.

    Perhaps, if you ask him nicely, Uncle David can delete some of your more colourful comments tonight.

    It’s not the drinking, it’s how we’re drinking eh Paddy?

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  34. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Embroyo’s making choices seems to be a theme of your’s tonight Ratbleater.

    Any chance you could tell us how we can find them out?

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  35. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    I feel a song coming on…

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  36. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    No Sonic, Redbaiter is right. You demand answers from everyone else but refuse to answer any.

    I hear you are a Scottish unionist who couldn’t’ quite cut it in your hometown. Is there any truth to that?
    if so I really want to know why the fuck you believe you can come to this country and make it as sad as the one that kicked you out?

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  37. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    “stop makin’ love to the bottle, patrick…
    why don’t you make a cup of tea?”…

    Ah, an oldie but a goldie!

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  38. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Any chance you could tell us how we can find them out?”

    You know already what that choice would be, and that’s why you refused to answer my question.

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  39. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    What’s the bet that all these outraged characters charging “MURDER!” are actually doing jack-diddley-fuck to stop this daily genocidal slaughter from actually, y’know, happening.

    Shucks guys, if I thought there were murders happening in my neighbourhood then I think I might stop blogging for a few minutes and actually try and do something to stop it… That’s if it’s MURDER we’re talking about and all…

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  40. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Fuck off Enema, your grovelling for attention is as pathetic as your smug delusion that you’re witty.

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  41. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    Shock horror! Redbaiter, with 2906 comments (most of them repeating the same kinda stuff each time), is accusing capills_enema, with 140 comments, of grovelling for attention! I’m outraged, sir!

    Yes, I rather suspected you’d react well to being told you’re a chickenhawk over the abortion issue too

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  42. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    enema, you may only have 140 now but how many before you were up Capills_ arse?

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  43. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Redbaiter, with 2906 comments (most of them repeating the same kinda stuff each time),”

    Those comments that you apparently can’t stop yourself from seeking out…

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  44. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    So you’ve done fuck all to stop all these MURDERS then, Patrick? Shame on you!

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  45. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    “Those comments that you apparently can’t stop yourself from seeking out…”

    How do you work that one out, Einstein? I’m not the one with 2607 comments.

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  46. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Notice Patrick how these sad commies have all got the comprehension skills of road kill? Its why I always describe them as brain damaged. They just never get it, have never got it and never will get it. Narcissistic dropkicks, and Enema’s just another one.

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  47. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Biological contraception aye? is that why you went up Capills_ arse?

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  48. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    Still no word from these heroes about what they’re doing to stop all these murders and stuff… How do they sleep?

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  49. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, they are truly very sad little warts on the genitals of mankind’s lower class

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  50. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “How do you work that one out, Einstein?”

    Its not hard Homer you narcissistic bore. Its quite plain that ninety percent of what you post is in response to Redbaiter’s posts, and are messages that are obvious, sorry and desperate attempts to get his attention. One only has to observe.

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  51. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    “Its quite plain that ninety percent of what you post is in response to Redbaiter’s posts,”

    Goodness me, don’t WE rate ourselves, Mr Baiter! Gosh, I had no idea you thought yourself so ‘stalker-worthy’… Tell you what, why don’t you post a little piccy of yourself, and then I’ll know whether you’re worth this ‘crush’ that I’m apparently supposed to have on you? (sorry, this crush that I’m supposed to have on ‘Redbaiter’ – now that you’ve taken to referring to yourself in the third person!).

    Go on, post a piccy. Promise I won’t call you a fat bastard, like you called Whaleoil!

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  52. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    Appears Sonic may have taken his own advice, – a couple of aspirin, a glass of water and off to bed – after a bitch slapping?

    Nah, money is on that dirty little toe rag coward will lurk until everyone else has signed out then put a spiteful little post.

    Shame he cant answer simple question though, after all, it’s what he demands of everyone else.!

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  53. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Goodness me, don’t WE rate ourselves, Mr Baiter!”

    Not at all. Merely pointing out the obvious, that is your obsession with Redbaiter. The one you’ve been exercising on this blog for some time and under numerous other names, but always , no matter what name, in the same smug narcissitic tone. It doesn’t even matter if its not always you. It might as well be. You’re all the same kind of brain damaged neurotic and boring losers.

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  54. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Shame he cant answer simple question though, after all, it’s what he demands of everyone else.!”

    Its interesting to observe their panic and distress as more and more people begin rejecting their doctrine every day.

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  55. Patrick Starr (3,674 comments) says:

    RB, You’re so right.
    Must be devastating for these sad little parasites to see their safe little havens of socialism crumble as the polls show the writing on the wall

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  56. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    ‘Baiter… Fook, you’re priceless!

    “The one you’ve been exercising on this blog for some time and under numerous other names”… bla bla… It doesn’t even matter if its not always you. It might as well be. “

    Are the voices in your head the same person each time, mate? Or they just “might as well be”? Ha!

    If it’s an obsession that I’ve got, shouldn’t I be jealous of these other likeminded people who are stalking you too, Redbaiter? Haha! Shit, you’re the best.

    Anyway, it looks like you blokes are right – Sonic’s probably gone to bed by now. So now there’s just two of you deliberately ignoring a question. Coincidentally the same thing you’re accusing Sonic of having done.

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  57. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    I’ll say it again: What are you people DOING to stop the thousand upon thousand of bloody MURDERS taking place in your country?

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  58. Mike (158 comments) says:

    Interesting that we are expected to take into account the wishes of embryos when it comes to abortion, but not children when it comes to smacking?

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  59. dave (988 comments) says:

    proper way to change laws is through public vote or the legislature – not through the back door.
    Well that’s the best way, but DPF how do you suggest this be done on issues such as abortion when CIRs are not binding and Labour refuses leave to allow such bills to be tabled in Parliament?

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  60. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Labour – those thieving bastards are at it again – see Monkeys with Typewriters

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  61. slightlyrighty (2,475 comments) says:

    Abortion has always not sat well with me, especially now that my wife is currently expecting our second child. But I do respect the right of those who wish to choose, in the knowledge that they will have to live with the consequences of this decision. But in the Abortion Debate there are a number of conflicting statements held by those against it.

    For example, I can understand being against abortion. It is a horrible solution to a preventable problem. But why is it that so many who are against abortion are also against contraception? Contraception prevents abortion by preventing conception.

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  62. dave (988 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t say that contraception prevents abortion entirely, given that 43% of women/girls who had an abortion in 1996 were using contraception. Slightlywrongy again! For more see my post on this.

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  63. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    I’ve already made my position clear getstaffed, I believe in a women’s right to choose.

    Yes, you did make this clear. But you didn’t answer the [quite reasonable?] question so i’ll repeat it: care to hazard a guess as to the proportion of the ~18,000 abortions performed last year that would have been in response to such horrible [rape pregnancy, serious health threat to mother] situations? i’d be interested. especially since there’s now some evidence suggest that abortion can have a detrimental impact on the mental health of the mother?

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  64. Hoolian (220 comments) says:

    Can we bring this thread back to abortion and off sonic’s scottish heritage or whatever.

    I don’t think we should have a debate about abortion – rather, we should have a serious debate about the status of the unborn. If we can determine (scientifically, not ideologically) that the unborn are either human or not, then abortion no longer become the issue. If the unborn are human, then abortion cannot exist as it is an attack on a human person; while if you think the unborn are not human, then there can be no problem in abortion because it is just a proceedure.

    I think NZ needs to grow a moral backbone and a nice pair of balls and stand up for what it believes in.

    Also, sonic: my dear and deluded friend from Scotland. I have no idea where you and your friends get the whole “If abortion is illegal, then it will be done anyway in the backstreet”. Firstly, that is not true; secondly, so what? P is illegal and it is done in the backstreets so should we legalise that? How about suicide? Its done in secret, so why not make Govt-funded suicide centres so people can die efficiently. See, your arguments are hollow and weak. They defy logic and they run purely on emotions but they don’t make sense and they don’t survive under universal scrutiny.

    There is no evidence to show that Poland, Ireland or Malta (all who have criminalised abortion) have backstreet abortions, rather the opposite – they just don’t have abortions.

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  65. Hoolian (220 comments) says:

    Can we bring this thread back to abortion and off sonic’s scottish heritage or whatever.

    I don’t think we should have a debate about abortion – rather, we should have a serious debate about the status of the unborn. If we can determine (scientifically, not ideologically) that the unborn are either human or not, then abortion no longer become the issue. If the unborn are human, then abortion cannot exist as it is an attack on a human person; while if you think the unborn are not human, then there can be no problem in abortion because it is just a proceedure.

    I think NZ needs to grow a moral backbone and a nice pair of balls and stand up for what it believes in.

    Also, sonic: my dear and deluded friend from Scotland. I have no idea where you and your friends get the whole “If abortion is illegal, then it will be done anyway in the backstreet”. Firstly, that is not true; secondly, so what? P is illegal and it is done in the backstreets so should we legalise that? How about suicide? Its done in secret, so why not make Govt-funded suicide centres so people can die efficiently. See, your arguments are hollow and weak. They defy logic and they run purely on emotions but they don’t make sense and they don’t survive under universal scrutiny.

    There is no evidence to show that Poland, Ireland or Malta (all who have criminalised abortion) have backstreet abortions, rather the opposite – they just don’t have abortions.

    http://politicsandprose.blog.com/3203873/

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  66. PhilBest (5,125 comments) says:

    It is a moral contradiction of our times, that there is so much obsession with the rights of all non-human living organisms (whales, trees, etc) (And look at the mess that regarding animals as sacred made of nations like India), yet such denial over the value status of human foetuses.

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  67. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    The judgment in Right to Life New Zealand Inc v The Abortion Supervisory Committee is now available online from the MoJ’s site.

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  68. pirrie (15 comments) says:

    Hoolian, that’s a fairly sweeping statement that Poland Ireland and Malta “just don’t have abortions”. Firstly a quick trip to google will show you that is highly unlikely. All three countries are a short drive to jurisdictions that allow abortion. So even if it wasn’t done illegally in their home country any woman wanting an abortion can take a drive across the border, and clearly many do. NZ does stand up for what it believes in, and public opinion is still in favour of the right to abortion in certain situations. I’m not trying to change your view which appears pretty set, but just to correct the information you use to back your beliefs.

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  69. RRM (10,034 comments) says:

    DPF you seem pretty clued up on this issue – so a question:

    Richard Worth has just ‘Friended’ me on Facebook. (I am not his friend, so I presume this is because I subscribed to his weekly e mail newsletter back when I lived in his electorate.)
    Does this sort of endeavour require approval under the EFA, or count towards the spending limit??

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  70. PhilBest (5,125 comments) says:

    One of the most absurd myths of the liberal left, is that back in morally conservative eras, teenagers still DID HAVE SEX (you can’t stop them), and almost all the pregnancies (those that did not result in an adoption) were terminated by a messy illegal backyard abortionist, and there has been no historical trace left by all that illegal abortion activity or of the deaths that resulted from the messier ones.

    People on the liberal left are unable to grasp the idea that teenagers in earlier eras actually DIDN’T HAVE SEX, as a rule, and those that did were the exception, not the rule, and society still attached ideas of shame to certain activities as society’s first line of defence against the socially destructive effects of those activities. But they will never admit this.

    Some old curmudgeon wrote a good letter to the DomPost the other day, in which he made the point that politicians who are into permissiveness on matters sexual have got a bloody CHEEK to tell people how they should learn to control their urges to eat tasty foods, or to smoke……..

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  71. chiz (1,164 comments) says:

    Nicholas O’Kane:As for the morality of abortion, I have always held the belief that life starts at conception, and thus abortion constitutes murder.

    This kind of equivocation seems standard for the anti-abortion movement. You don’t distinguish between ‘life’ and ‘a life’. Bacteria, tumours, and more significantly, teratomas, are alive. To say that life starts at conception is just a biochemical tautology. What you mean to say is that ‘a life’ starts at conception. The usual terminology to avoid this confusion is ‘personhood’, i.e. that ‘personhood’ starts at conception. This claim is known to be false.

    … there is a strong scientific consensus that life begins at conception.

    Sperm and eggs are already alive in the biochemical sense so it is no surprise that, after conception, the subsequently formed zygote is also alive. Again, what you mean to say is that ‘personhood’ begins at conception. This claim is false. The scientific evidence is categorical. There is no scientifically meaningful sense in which you can make a one-to-one mapping between zygotes and people. Unfortunatey evryone in the anti-abortion movement is poorly informed about the relevant details of human reproduction.

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  72. RRM (10,034 comments) says:

    Phil – I suggest you read Shakespeare on Tudor England, or Katherine Austin on Regency England, or ANY old fiction at all, and then come back and tell us all if you still stand by your 4:39pm statement about teen sex through the ages!

    PS: Or Thomas Pynchon on wartime Europe, if you want to REALLY get your rocks off ;-)

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  73. RRM (10,034 comments) says:

    OOPS – and I meant “Jane Austen” when I said “Katherine Austin” of course…!

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  74. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    PhilBest said: One of the most absurd myths of the liberal left, is that back in morally conservative eras, teenagers still DID HAVE SEX

    Phil – as usual you are talking shit. For a start, almost every woman was married as a teenager in the days you recall, so of course they were having sex.

    Second point, the sexual drive of the vast majority of people over puberty is such that very few will be celibate. Those who attempt to, against their biochemically induced desires, often lose the plot. The Christian church taboo against masturbation and oral sex don’t help in that regard either – that also encourages young people to seek sexual partners for intercourse ahead of satisfying their sexual desires either alone or through mutually satisfying activities with partners that will not result in pregnancy.

    Sorry, Phil, but celibacy is an unnatural state for human adults, and if you try to enforce it, as you seem to do with teenagers and the Catholic church does with priests, you get some very unfortunate outcomes.

    Bottom line, mate, is that man or woman, straight or gay, we’re all programmed biologically to want to have sex, and religious constraints that purport to suppress our biology will always fail.

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  75. dad4justice (8,313 comments) says:

    Toady nutbar, your utopian religion has failed New Zealand families, especially children !!!

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  76. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    d4j – sorry, mate, I ain’t got any religion! Have you?

    Only thing I have to say is that perhaps you should have considered condoms or oral sex so you didn’t find yourself in this predicament.

    But when there are children in a family, they do not deserve the bash or psychological abuse – WHATEVER they may do in their childhood innocence! Nor do either of their parents, for that matter.

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  77. dad4justice (8,313 comments) says:

    Is the greens social justice convicting a loving dad for stopping his children play chicken with a bus? You greens are rotten bullshit dangerous snakes.

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  78. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    “perhaps you should have considered condoms or oral sex so you didn’t find yourself in this predicament.”

    Yes toad, perhaps this would have improved D4J’s lot. However I think the rest of us would have been so much poorer if we didn’t have his distinctive ‘thwarted’ perspective to read, no?

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  79. dad4justice (8,313 comments) says:

    What kind of internet weirdo has capills enema as a bloggers name? What a crackpot bento wankster.Only in New Zealand the land of long running lies, Absolute Power and Utopian communists.

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  80. capills_enema (194 comments) says:

    And a very good day to you, my dear dear fellow!

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  81. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    lol

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