Historical treaty claims due in by midnight

September 1st, 2008 at 8:00 am by David Farrar

The deadline for filing historical (prior to 1992) Treaty of Waitangi claims is at midnight tonight.

Claimants have had over 20 years to file their claims, so the deadline is far from hasty as the Maori Party claim. Indeed as says, there needs to be an end to litigation at some stage.

The Waitangi Tribunal has been publicising the deadline and has generated several hundred claims. I honestly doubt a single genuine claim has not managed to be filed.

The good thing about today, is that from tomorrow on the number of unresolved historical grievance claims can only start reducing. God knows how long it will take to consider and hopefully resolve them all, but we will have a known number of claims for the Tribunal and Government to work through.

Dr Cullen has done a sterling job in advancing Treaty settlements since he took over from Mark Burton. If National win the election, they should aim to match Dr Cullen’s pace. Luckily they have considerable resources to call on:

  • Chris Finlayson, who speny many years as Ngai Tahu’s lawyer and is very knowledgable in this area
  • , one of NZ’s top negotiators (and the settlements are very much a negotiation)
  • , a former member of the Waitangi Tribunal

Of course premature to speculate on what portfolios, MPs may get, but just wanting to show that the work of resolving historical grievances should continue, and settling such grievances in fair, full and final settlements is a win-win.

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31 Responses to “Historical treaty claims due in by midnight”

  1. pushmepullu (686 comments) says:

    Follow Cullen’s example? Are you high DPF?

    Cullen has excelled alright – excelled in handing out taxpayer money to a bunch of scheming lawyers and lazy welfare bludgers in a fake ‘tribal’ organisation to ‘settle’ some kind of grievance which was already settled sixty years ago and which said bludgers and lawyers will continue to complain about even after their pay-off has been recieved (and pissed away on booze and drugs before the weekend is over)

    The incoming National government should pay close attention to what Cullen has done – and do the exact opposite! Cullen is not a role model for anybody except other academic slackers aiming to secure a place on the public teat, let alone a conservative government.

    Goodbye Sullen Cullen, hello accountability and prosperity

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  2. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,752 comments) says:

    Another victory for Don Brash. He leads and the rest of New Zealand follows. At least the country got one thing right. If they had voted him in as PM then the country might not be in a deep recession with house prices falling through the floor.

    At least in a democracy the voters get what they deserve. Poverty without hope in this case. ;-)

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  3. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Dr Cullen has done a sterling job in pissing away millions of New Zealanders money on bribery and shameless vote buying and a massive effort to try and get votes and to ensure that there’s no money for the next National government because he’s knows they’re out on their arse anyway.

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  4. pushmepullu (686 comments) says:

    I’m hoping onice in power National do something about getting back the money that has been unjustly given on ‘Treaty claims’ scams

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  5. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Historical grievances. Historical damn bullshit. Even members of the Waitiangi Tribunal have described the process as a farce. IMHO, the comments above are completely correct. The idea that this generation of taxpayers should pay for some alleged wrong doing by the crown or whoever during some misty period of time is completely unfair and irrational. ..and National should have done more to bring this appalling country splitting farce to a conclusion. What’s more the pay outs under this massive deceit have gone into the pockets of racist government cronyists, or separatists working behind the scenes to further the cause of Maori Sovereignty.

    NZ’s wholesale embracement of socialism has been a serious impediment to progress and our standard of living. The Waitangi Tribunal and the historical grievance scam has been another nail in the coffin of this country’s prosperity.

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  6. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    The closure of lodging new claims will simply open a new chapter in the history of racially motivated conscience extortion. Those teensy weensy problems of inflation and intergenerational wastage will lead to a redefinition of ‘full and final’ by the grievance industry.

    All of NZ needs to stand up and say ‘No More’. I do not want my children’s futures plundered by people who want sovereignty but will take billions while they wait indefinitely for it…

    I say this noting that my father’s family arrived in NZ in 1840, my mother’s family here in 1852 and having 95% of my forebears being born and raised in our country. Yet I don’t regard myself as any more entitled to special treatment than someone who received their citizenship yesterday.

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  7. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Hands up everyone else who thinks this is meaningless.

    Even the full and final settlements mean dick with previous settlements coming back for another suck on the sav because others got more than they did.

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  8. pushmepullu (686 comments) says:

    Clearly the people have spoken and demonstrated they regard the Treaty industry as one enormous con job, not to mention a disgusting attempt to re-write history and impune the innocent and dead who defended their homes as genocidal warmongers.

    DPF sadly you and the Labour Party who agree with you are an outlier on this issue

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  9. getstaffed (9,186 comments) says:

    Murray – me. The very idea of land ownership in perpetuity is just nuts. Take any square kilometre of Europe… it will have had 1000’s of sovereign and private owners over the last 10,000 years.

    Sovereignty comes and goes, and I’d have to suggest that England was a dam sight more accommodating to Maori than Maori were to Maoriori before them. It’s time the handful of agitating racists re-join the 99.9% who want to make our country a better place for all NZers.

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  10. homepaddock (408 comments) says:

    “If National win the election, they should aim to match Dr Cullen’s pace. Luckily they have considerable resources to call on:”

    The ones you mention plus Hekia Parata who is fluent in Maori has a background in business and policy work and will be one of few (maybe the only but I stand to be corrected on that) in parliament of Ngai Tahu descent.

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  11. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Maori attacked and murdered the first Dutch tourists who visited New Zealand with Abel Tasman. Clearly this is a violation of international law. Has the tribe involved paid compensation to the descendants of the murdered men yet?

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  12. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    …not to mention a disgusting attempt to re-write history and impune the innocent and dead who defended their homes as genocidal warmongers.

    That’s all very well, but what about the Europeans ?

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  13. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    Ah, do you need a tongue in cheek emoticon sign davidp?

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  14. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    Natural justice suggests that all historical grievances be settled, Stephen. Or are you saying that compensation for the murder of innocent people is less important than a few fish?

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  15. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    Ah I see davidp. I’m a little surprised to find out that current compensation has nothing to do with murdered people, just the concept of loss of ‘economic base’ and ‘property’ but i’m sure there’s a good reason. Well ‘natural justice’ is different to the ‘international law’ you cited before, I think, but i’m no lawyer. After a tiny bit of digging it was Ngati Tumatakokiri that committed the murders, so i’m sure the descendants could press for compensation to the value of a typical seaman’s life earnings if they wanted.

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  16. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Stephen – in case you haven’t noticed, we favour the rose-tinted view of New Zealand history** here. You’re going to have an uphill battle!

    **You know, the one that goes (nothing bad ever happened to any Maori people / nothing was ever taken from any Maori tribes that they deserve to get back / they were all cannibals anyway weren’t they? / Maori voided their future rights by defending themselves / But the Treaty of Waitangi doesn’t REALLY mean what it says…)

    So the settlements are therefore all election bribes. Nothing whatsoever to do with rights and wrongs that are bigger than the recent tax experiences of individual (ignorant) people!

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  17. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    I would like to lodge a claim.

    I want historical abuses recognised by the government and I also want compensation paid, many of my people have been brain washed by a succession of govt’s into believing that each and every “ill” suffered by the Maori people is he result of colonisation and the arrival of the white man.
    The very worst examples of this brain washing seem to be suffering from a self abuse syndrome, for some unfathomable reason they insist on wrecking their posture and backs by affixing a heavy piece of bone or rock around their necks as some sort of misguided penance.

    These people need help!

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  18. PaulL (5,987 comments) says:

    We don’t usually give compensation for murder, we prosecute the individuals involved for a crime. Of course, at the time it wasn’t a crime, since there was no treaty bringing the Maori under the jurisdiction of Britain. Shall we leave aside davidp’s diversion?

    The point of the treaty claim process is that laws were broken by the Crown. If someone breaks a law I have the ability to prosecute them for that. Of course, if they are dead I cannot prosecute them, but it is reasonable to seek redress from their descendents if those descendents are benefiting from that crime. So if your father stole a car off me, then he died and left the car to you in his will, it is reasonable that I might ask for my car back. You cannot avoid this by saying that it was your father, not you, who stole it. If, however, your father stole my car and burned it, then I have no redress on you. You did not profit from the crime.

    So, the government of the day established a Treaty and some laws. They then broke those laws, and illegally took possession of some lands and other assets that the descendents would otherwise enjoy today. Those lands and other assets are immensely valuable today. Having said that, there is some doubt that the lands would have made it down an unbroken chain to the current claimants. In recognition of that doubt, the claims are being paid out at a fraction of the value of the assets that were lost.

    As I understand it, the claims are largely (if not wholly) in respect of actions that happened after the Treaty was signed, some of those actions as recent as the early 1900s. In order to succeed in a claim the claimant needs to show clear law breaches by the Crown.

    I don’t see what is wrong with this process – compensation for loss should have nothing to do with the moral character of the claimant, the colour of their skin, and whether you like their politics. It has to do with whether they suffered a loss, whether that loss was illegal at the time, and whether there is a valid claim against some entity that benefited from that illegal appropration. The Treaty Claims process seems to meet those tests.

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  19. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Nothing whatsoever to do with rights and wrongs”

    Damn right. Your idiotic statements have nothing to back them up but trendy left wing talking points and shallow propaganda. Its not to do with right and wrong because the crimes are not proved in a real courtroom and even if they were, the perpetrators are long dead. There is nobody to try.

    I committed no crime. I should not be convicted in the kangaroo court called the Waitangi tribunal and made to pay the penalty these cronyists and racists determine. I say again- I committed no crime. I am in no way responsible and I should not be paying for these perceived and unproven injustices. The reason I am is because the cynical and racist Labour party perceived the whole scheme as an excellent method to garner the votes of the parasites that are always their supporters, and to exercise a bit of the old Marxist divide and conquer strategy. Utterly corrupt.

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  20. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I don’t see what is wrong with this process”

    Well visit the damn optometrist then.

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  21. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    ‘Cos an optometrist might actually be able to explain why that process is wrong! :-)

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  22. stephen (4,063 comments) says:

    It was a bit of a diversion from ol’ dave…

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  23. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    PaulL>I don’t see what is wrong with this process – compensation for loss should have nothing to do with the moral character of the claimant, the colour of their skin, and whether you like their politics. It has to do with whether they suffered a loss, whether that loss was illegal at the time, and whether there is a valid claim against some entity that benefited from that illegal appropration.

    What? Compensation for loss can be handled via the normal court system. Adjudicating disputes is what courts do all the time, and politicians are excluded from the deliberations of the court so that the adjudication is impartial. But this Waitangi Tribunal exists ONLY for claimants with a single skin colour, and there is significant political involvement. It is a political process based on racial identity, rather than anything to do with proper legal compensation.

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  24. pushmepullu (686 comments) says:

    If these so-called ‘crimes’ were provable in a Court, they could be taken to Court. But they can’t, so this bullshit kangaroo court ‘Waitangi Tribunal’ is set up with the explicit idea that Maori people are not held to the same standard of proof as other people. Disgraceful, New Zealand not only has a racist justice system, the government is actually proud of it and touts it overseas as a model fro other countries to follow – to the enthusiastic acclaim of third world dictatotrships and the restrained horror of wealthy western states.

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  25. PaulL (5,987 comments) says:

    The Waitangi tribunal is now part of the court system. It is a specialist court with expertise in this area. Which seems like a reasonable response to the situation. Everyone in NZ has access to a justice system for the purposes of compensation for loss.

    The Waitangi process is different because of the historical nature of the claims, and the fact that previous governments have denied the claimants justice. Once that historical fact was recognised, it is also reasonable to acknowledge that those claimants have been disadvantaged by time, and that some allowances will need to be made.

    I have quibbles with the detail of the process, the way some evidence is accepted, and some of the things being claimed. But I do not, overall, believe that the process is a wrong one.

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  26. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “But I do not, overall, believe that the process is a wrong one.”

    Well as usual, your beliefs and reality don’t have much in common. The Waitiangi Tribunal is a farce. Who appears for the defendant? What real tests are there on evidence? One Tribunal member has stated that one particular $2 million claim was finalized on the basis of a “a pile of photocopying”. The TOW industry is riddled with nepotism, cronyism and corruption (as the Assignment show called “the Treaty Train” showed so well.)

    Leaving that all aside, the money that has been spent on this backward looking exercise in navel gazing and guilt manufacturing could have been spent on so many other things (roads for example) and the mental energy that has gone into dealing with the issue and the legislation and the lawyers and the payouts and the negative social outcomes have all cast a desperately depressing pall over the NZ psyche now for more than a decade.

    Your blasé acceptance of the status quo Paul typifies the approach of too many in NZ, especially our politicians, who if they had had a bit of character, a bit of spine and a bit of common sense, would have nipped this destructive farce in the bud a long time ago and this country would have been so so much the better for it. As usual, the good of the whole has been sacrificed at the corrupt alter of political power.

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  27. PaulL (5,987 comments) says:

    The good of the whole. So, you’re saying that the people should be able to vote to overturn private property rights. We don’t need the rule of law, we need rule of the mob. Do you see any need for consistency in your arguments? I thought private property rights were something you cared about.

    As for the administration of the Waitangi Tribunal – abysmal. That is different from saying that it is the wrong thing to do. Like the war in Iraq – conducted incompetently, but I still believe was the right thing to do on the evidence available at the time. Pity Bush is such a poor poster child for the right – better than the oxygen thief that the Democrats put up, but still an incompetent big government conservative.

    It may have been easier to get to a payout much more quickly so that we could move on. But without some authoritative list of claims, some sort of investigation of the size and evidence for those claims, and some process to weigh relative merits, I wouldn’t have been very comfortable with any government spending my money more quickly. Particularly a Labour one.

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  28. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I thought private property rights were something you cared about.”

    Its nothing to do with private property rights, (other than an attack on my own by means of a taxation department enforced assigment on my annual earnings). These sponging collectivist racist bastards all have their hands deep in the taxpayer’s pocket. For every damn thing. This is all about leaching off government. This is all about robbing the hard working middle classes of NZ so that some stinking racist socialist politicians can rub noses on some flea bitten taxpayer funded Marae. Get some perspective for fuck’s sake.

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  29. baxter (893 comments) says:

    CULLEN sure has David fooled…..The rush of settlements are part of his scorched fields plan to make sure there is nothing left in kitty for National when they take over. The settlements he has made are so extravagant that all the researched earlier settlements will be claiming catchup to ensure their payments remain in ratio.

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  30. serge (108 comments) says:

    The Treaty of Waitangi is the biggest hoax ever concoxed in this country, a way of robbing hard working New Zealanders of the values we have created through hard work and giving part of it away to a bunch of canibals. Cullen and the rest of this red bunch will be out to pasture soon.

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  31. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “The Treaty of Waitangi is the biggest hoax ever concoxed in this country”

    Maybe. I think its between the TOW and the climate change scam/ ETS.

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