The Jobs Summit

February 28th, 2009 at 10:22 am by David Farrar

will be pleased, I suspect, with the Summit. It appears to have indeed avoided being just a talkfest, and some actual initiatives have come forward for consideration.

What I also found interesting was the reports of how it engendered a sense of responsibility in participants that they all have a role to play. You had the Reserve Bank Governor and Treasury Secretary not just there to give speeches, but also actively working side by side in the sessions with participants.

The other interesting thing has been the almost unchallenged assumption that saving jobs is the foremost priority, as determined by John Key. So the Govt is willing to take on some more debt. The banks are willing to lend some more money, the unions (here at least) did not just press for pay increases, and the employers backed plans to reduce hours instead of jobs – despite the latter being a lot easier.

So what are the main ideas:

  • A nine day working fortnight, with the Government paying (but at leass than full wages) for training on the 10th day. Est to cost $320 million a year which is huge. However if it does keep up to 20,000 people in jobs, then you save a lot by not having to pay unemployment benefits and still collecting tax on their incomes.  Backed by Key, unions and employers
  • A $50 million cycleway from Cape Reinga to Bluff, employing 4,000 people (not sure for how long). Supported by Key as a tourism measure and Greens for obvious reasons. Not one of the formal top 20.
  • A multi-million or billion equity investment fund, with the Government and banks, designed to let companies access capital to grow.
  • A $60 million private-public fund to boost Tourism

Fran O’Sullivan praises the Summit:

Pairing Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe and Council of Trade Unions president Helen Kelly as co-chairs for the critical employment session proved to be a masterstroke.

Very decent of John, $60 milconsidering the anti-National ads that the CTU ran last year.

Well before the summit, Kelly and Fyfe had nutted out a range of policy ideas that are enticingly pragmatic.

One has to say also kudos to Kelly for her work.

Key’s decision to appoint Mark Weldon as summit chair also proved inspired, giving the talented NZX chief executive officer the opportunity to provoke other business leaders to be more creative in their thinking.

Weldon’s appointment was criticised by more than a few, but at the end of the day he delivered.

Colin Espiner blogs:

It’s been a very long day but I think a productive one.

I have to admit I was a bit of a cynic about the Jobs Summit. I’ve been to enough of these things to know that half the time they are a load of hot air, with competing egos and ideologies crowding out the room. At the time of the day some vague communique gets released and nothing ever happens.

Well, this summit was a little bit like that. But only a little. Whether it was the sense of impending crisis, whether it was the change of government, whether business and the unions are more prepared to listen to each other I don’t know, but I did get the feeling that for once, everyone seemed to be singing from the same page.

It is only a beginning. What will be interesting is how many of the ides get implemented in the Budget, or before.

Tags: , ,

88 Responses to “The Jobs Summit”

  1. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    Sorry for the double-post.

    Well, this idiotic cycle track idea should be doomed for oblivion, I would hope.

    I mean, what profound stupidity for the media to even talk about it as if it was a serious proposition, let alone for the Summit to waste any time discussing it.

    Duh.

    The sole criteria is the future productivity of the infrastructure that we build with our money.

    Duh.

    A fucking cycle track would only accommodate tourists who aren’t going to be coming and at most a few thousand people who rode it during summer each year. Resulting in an estimated ROI of negative eleventy gajillion%.

    Fucking duh.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    Sorry for the double-post.

    Have to say too that this 1 day in 9 spent on training is idiotic.

    Newsflash: Improving workforce skill set will NOT!@!%$^#@*& immediately address the issues we’re going to be facing over the next 5-10 years.

    Unless of course you want to re-train them to work in secure industries like health care and environmental technology. I doubt their current employers would be too keen on that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Here is Redbaiter’s suggestion-

    The organisers of the summit said leave your ideology at the door. They should have gone further and acknowledged that ideology is a prime factor in the current crisis. Leftist ideology that is. Mixed government as the left call it. I prefer Marxism. Or socialism. An ideology that has defined government in the West now for a number of decades. (except ironically when Douglas ruled for that blip in time and space)

    The bottom line is – you cannot continue to elect political zealots to government, and endow them with the right to turn that government from a function into a religion. Government has a role to play in society, but that role is limited to providing a defense force, law and order and recording births deaths and marriages and land transfers and a few other such functions.

    Government cannot be successfully used to shape political and economic outcomes, especially those based upon a religion dreamed up by some navel gazing German academic whose ideas are almost a century out of date.

    Its a concept that just does not work. The cataclysmic collapse that is coming is proof of this.

    Socialists attempt to use government to promote their religion. This is why we face social Armageddon today, and why that ideology should be left at the door of any real attempt to come up with solutions. Government has to function free of any political ideology, and will function successfully if that simple principle is followed.

    It won’t be. As I have already said, Marxism is too endemic. There’s probably not a person at the talk fest who is not convinced that socialism deserves another chance.

    Its a good system they say, it just was not done as it should be done.

    Yeah right.

    Where have we heard that before?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    The organisers of the summit said leave your ideology at the door. They should have gone further and acknowledged that ideology is a prime factor in the current crisis. Leftist ideology that is.

    Apropos of which, have a read of this idiot.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Its a good system they say, it just was not done as it should be done.

    Yeah right.

    Where have we heard that before?

    YOU everytime you preach your free market bullfuckingshit lies.

    Reagan is dead, and so is his discredited economics.

    Douglas may as well be dead, as no one with any sense listens to him, even jonkey was smart enough to keep him inside the tent, but without influence.

    The failures of your religion are writ large in the papers each day.

    This armageddon has come in spite of the best attempts of socialists, not because of it. It is all down to your heros with feet of clay.

    [DPF: Yeah free market policies are dead, except oh in almost every country on Earth.]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. davidp (3,572 comments) says:

    >A $50 million cycleway from Cape Reinga to Bluff

    I cycled a few thousand kilometers across Australia a few years ago. I was lucky if I saw one other long distance cyclist a week. NZ has more hills, and would likely attract fewer cyclists. But then the Australian summer is pretty oppressive. But, on the other hand, cycling in 35deg is a lot more fun than cycling in a NZ winter. So I’ll go out on a limb and predict that fewer than 50 people will cycle a significant part of the proposed route each year. At, say, 10 percent debt and maintenance charge each year, that is $5million a year, so you’d be subsidising each cyclist to the tune of $100k. Which doesn’t seem a great tourism earner.

    If you want to make life better for cyclists, then send a road sweeper buggy along the edges of state highways to sweep up all the loose stones and other crap that makes NZ roads so dangerous. And build them a meter wider on each side – both cyclists and drivers would benefit from a small hard shoulder.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    Reagan is dead, and so is his discredited economics.

    billy, you really should distinguish between reality that is and reality as you’d like it to be.

    Only idiots, morons and fools mistake the latter for the former.

    I’m sure you’re not like that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Apropos of which, have a read of this idiot.”

    Well thanks I guess for that link, but what nauseating hope crushing rubbish.

    Due to its sappy Marxist theme, it will resonate with many.

    She says-

    “Like many New Zealanders, I’m scared of losing my job.”

    Pity she’s too damn stupid to understand that every word she utters in the promotion of Marxism/ socialism makes that fear more likely of being realised.

    What damage these idiots do to the fabric of society. What prosperity we would experience if they were not about in such suffocating numbers, and not such a powerful but negative influence on social and economic outcomes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    So you’re saying reagan isn’t dead? Because if your saying his policies aren’t discredited, then you’re a bigger dope than I thought, and I’m sure you’re not like that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Viking2 (11,340 comments) says:

    I accept that we haven’t seen any definitive list yet but so far as an owner of 3 small businesses I have yet to see a single thing that will assist us.
    In fact I would go so far as to say that all the wrong people were asked. As usual all the intelligencey were paraded for all to listen but you know its the guys on the floor and mums at home who who need listening to.
    But this is just the usual feel good for the McKinsey Mob.
    Ask the Tauranga ratepayers how they feel about spending (wasting) a fortune on redeveloping roads to contain cycleways. Cycleways that are hardly used and create a danger for the motorists that the roads that were built for. Just rubbish.
    We have a no.1 State Highway that is falling to bits, roads around the BOP region that are over trafficked and we want to build a cycle way.
    A cycleway with a cost of $50 Million and 2 years to build which will employ 3700 people at an average rate of 3.50 per hour. (no allowance for anything other than labour.) Yeh right.
    Think that’s bad apparently DOC will be in charge, oh yaay, 10 years for consents? how many snails, kiwi’s , endangered this and that’s in the way?
    I must be having a bad dream; probably this socialist Govt again.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “I must be having a bad dream; probably this socialist Govt again.”

    Good post.

    The thing that puzzles me is this-

    You do have elections in Tauranga right??

    Why the fucking hell do people keep voting for this crap???

    I’ll tell you.

    Democracy has been utterly perverted by the left’s mission to insidiously integrate Marxist ideology into the fabric of society. They have to be driven out and democracy restored.

    We must take back control of the schools, the media, and our public institutions from these totalitarian bastards.

    We absolutely must.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Viking2 (11,340 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, have a look here.
    http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=514&p=19732#p19732

    http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135&p=19733#p19733
    Scoll down till you see a post on Local Govt. democracy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    We must take back control of the schools, the media, and our public institutions …

    So says redbaiter, once again proving that there is an insidious attempt by the Rogered Right to dominate thought processes and drive out anyone who is brave enough to question their discredited system.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Innocent bystander (163 comments) says:

    Perhaps the government could consider finishing the first harebrained scheme for a route between Capre Reinga and Bluff that no one will ever use before embarking on another one…

    http://www.teararoa.org.nz/

    Or they could just find a better use for the $50 million.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. grumpyoldhori (2,416 comments) says:

    A cycle way, for fucks sake there is plenty of bloody work that
    needs to be done and they want a make work scheme.
    No doubt it will be all pick and shovel because using diggers
    would be far too efficient and fast.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Read this and weep. Another fucken arrogant pretentious socialist without a damn clue.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/4858790a1861.html

    Here’s a clue Joan. Shut down your useless traitorous newspapers and allow a news media that brings us truth rather than politically correct racist and socialist crap to grow in the vacuum.

    Maybe if we’d had that ten years ago, we wouldn’t be facing the economic collapse we’re facing now.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    So you’re saying reagan isn’t dead? Because if your saying his policies aren’t discredited, then you’re a bigger dope than I thought, and I’m sure you’re not like that.

    Anyone who blames the application of Hayek’s economic theories for the GFC is a fool, an idiot, a moron and a plonker as well.

    The GFC occurred largely because of regulatory failure, the active participation of powerful vested interests that applied significant political pressure to prevent agencies like Treasury and the Fed from intervening appropriately, tremendous ignorance on the part of the lemmings in the markets, and pure unbridled avarice. There are other reasons but those are the big broad brush strokes.

    Nowhere in that broad mix is Hayek’s economics. You might as well claim that the reason for the fatal car accident was the fact its engine was providing power to the transmission at the time.

    So tell us billy, out of fool, moron, idiot and plonker, which of these best describes those who hallucinate the root cause of the GFC was the fact the engine was operating at the time of the accident?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Innocent bystander (163 comments) says:

    …And if they are going to make this sort of investment a better use of the money would be to invest in urban cycle ways and to invest in cycle tracks in areas that already have tourists and tourist infrastructure. No one is going to use a cycleway between say Taihape and Bulls…but they might use one between Clyde (at the end of the existing Rail Trail) and Cromwell which would enhance an existing asset. A more cycle friendly route between Cromwell and Queenstown or a route back to Dunedin so that cyclists don’t have to back track over the same route and scenery could also work. I’m not convinced this is the best way to spend $50 million as there are probably other ways to save or create jobs but if they are going to do this they could at least be a bit smarter about it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    “attempt by the Rogered Right to dominate thought processes ”

    what country /planet is this dickhed posting from? Earth to Borker -…or were you asleep for the last 9 years?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Shut down your useless traitorous newspapers …

    Here is redbaiter, once again at his best, attempting toclose down any discussion, any dissemination of views he doesn’t like. THIS, patrick Starr, is what I am on about, not the last 9 years but tofuckingday.

    The past is the past, and cannot be changed (as much as redbaiter likes rewriting it). What we have is today, and it is today we must deal with these control freaks. What next, redbaiter, tanks in the Square to suppress us?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Ruth (178 comments) says:

    What is so bad about the cycleway idea? Nothing wrong with it, and it would be good for tourism.

    Admittedly it is hardly going to kick start us out of a recession, but nothing wrong with the idea per se.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    What is so bad about the cycleway idea? Nothing wrong with it, and it would be good for tourism.

    Bang for buck, Ruth. Bang for buck.

    Critical at any time when you’re talking taxpayer money or anyone’s money for that matter, but in this particular time, utterly absolutely and paramountedly super duper no doubt about it really really critical indeed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. libertyscott (359 comments) says:

    $50 million wont build a cycleway from Cape Reinga to Bluff, it will be lucky to build one from Cape Reinga to Auckland. This nonsense should be consigned to the dustbin. Actually a better approach would be to use more abandoned and soon to be closed railway corridors for cycleways (Taneatua branch, and from Otiria to Okaihau for starters), but let’s not forget what this is about. When government spends money it takes it from someone else. Unless you can be sure the government can spend other people’s money better than they can, it is destructive of wealth. Making work when it doesn’t create wealth is destroying wealth.

    If that message wasn’t clearly communicated, the Jobs Summit will have been an enormous waste of time.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. goodgod (1,363 comments) says:

    How much did this job summit cost us? Because they fuckin’ wasted our money again! Socialist style government redisitribution via peasent workgangs. Utter brilliance. :evil:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    Don’t really agree it was a waste of time, gg. Yet. Let’s see what comes out of it.

    To me it’s one of the few things Key’s done that demonstrates he recognises the gravity of the GFC.

    I’m hoping for a helluva lot more like demonstrations in the immediate future, and once again advocate PhilBest’s point.

    Tell us the truth about it John, trust us with the information, don’t hold anything back, don’t obfuscate, don’t prevaricate, don’t try to “talk it up.”

    None of those things will work, John. So it’s pointless even trying. Instead, show us leadership by demonstrating by actions that you’re prepared to listen to anything, do anything and sprint a million miles an hour to take us through this thing.

    Personally I suggest you start with implementing my 5% tax-rate on redundancy idea by Monday lunchtime, but that’s just me.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Paul Marsden (991 comments) says:

    Another ‘ambulance at the bottom of the cliff’ panacea?? Too little, too late perhaps??. Though I applaud the proactive position of the Govenment, it really needs to be engaging with the back-bone of NZ’s economy ie.the small, business enterprise, amongst whom exist some of NZ’s cleverest and lateral thinking individuals.

    The summit should have also placed emphasis on goal setting ie. Priority and longer term. Priority is for small business to retain key staff. The paradox apparantly overlooked by the summit is that in any well run business, all staff are ‘key’. The ‘nine day fortnight’ does not go far enough. Small business needs the flexibilty to be able to reduce labour hours NOW, whilst consumer demand is low. Government could provide temporary funding/relief to qualifying small businesses, so that staff can work reduced hours without any reduction in pay.There are a number of ways this could be implemented and of course, covenants would apply.

    Only the primary, manufacturing, tourism, and now the film/computer programing industry, create true wealth for NZ. With the exception of say the film industry, the tyranny of distance is not overcome by computer. We still personally, have to travel from the furthest most point on earth to sell our products (and to the business owner’s primary, and significant cost). Then, having sold our products, they then have to be shipped from the furthest most point on earth to customers overseas. Even a business that has a sound, domestic market from which to springboard from, the cost in time, business and personal expense, and the other personal sacrifices, including family and lonelieness, can be sapping and soul destroying.

    NZ business people are generally a collabrative bunch, so (along with export incentives), how about relocating all our embassy’s and trade posts into strategcially located hotels in our key, and emerging markets throughout the world? The hotels would not only serve as NZ Embassys, but provide a focal meeting and subsidised accomodation place for NZ exporters operating in those markets. The benefits would be huge. In addition (and though I haven’t done the sums), my gut instinct in selling off NZ real estate currently occupied by NZ Embassys (not to mention maintenance costs), would be significant.

    In another the matter of ideas, a significant benefit would be for the NZ Patent Office to put ALL of its patent application records (from day 1), on-line.(From memory, their on-line records only go back so far)

    Also, changes need to be made to legislation relating to copyright law,specifically the legislaton regarding artistic works emodied in models of industrial design. Current law is insane, poorly understood and can be used as a mechanism to prevent legitimate market competition.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    So tell us billy, out of fool, moron, idiot and plonker, which of these best describes those who hallucinate the root cause of the GFC was the fact the engine was operating at the time of the accident?

    billy, yoo hoo. Are you there billy?

    Paul, excellent post.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. cha (3,920 comments) says:

    Rail trail

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. radvad (741 comments) says:

    Big ups for Key.

    The atmosphere in NZ has changed drastically since last November. Labour used to rabbit on about “inclusiveness” but has no idea what it means. Hence we were a very divided country. Key however, does not even talk about it, he just naturally operates inclusively. As a result the country comes together.

    That is why he is able to get stuff done and is why there will be constructive outcomes from this conference.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “Well, this idiotic cycle track idea should be doomed for oblivion, I would hope”

    You obviously have’nt connected the dots

    If National and the Greens work side by side, peole will be turfed out of their cars and made to cycle.

    The fact the govt is implementing this scheme shows that indeed we are going to see that common Nat/Green cause.

    This is why the anti smacking law will never be repealed and why John Keys is a centralist; to accomodate the Greens.

    This therefore must be a key strategy of Keysian socialism.

    If you know JK is a Keysianist this all make sense.

    Is there anywhere online you can see what a blending of colours looks like: ie, red, blue, green.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. PhilBest (5,120 comments) says:

    grumpyoldhori (679) Vote: 3 0 Says:

    February 28th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
    “A cycle way, for fucks sake there is plenty of bloody work that
    needs to be done and they want a make work scheme.
    No doubt it will be all pick and shovel because using diggers
    would be far too efficient and fast.”

    See what I’ve told you, Redbaiter, GOH is not an attention seeking leftwing troll, he’s got a lot of good sound common sense a lot of time.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “What is so bad about the cycleway idea? Nothing wrong with it, and it would be good for tourism.”

    I hear that in the North Island, it starts somewhere near Cape Reinga, and ends somewhere near Wellington with a gently upward curving launching ramp as one approaches Cook Strait.

    I’m all for it we force the bureaucrats, journalists and politicians whose alliance of lies brought us to this state to make the inaugural trip.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “with a gently upward curving launching ramp as one approaches Cook Strait.”

    Great line Red :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “$50 million wont build a cycleway from Cape Reinga to Bluff,”

    You’re right. Its basically just enough to pay for the lawyers, treaty specialists, union consultants, environmental consultants, equal opportunity consultants, health and safety consultants and their reports, and the application and licencing fees necessary to get it to the stage where the plan can be discussed in the over booked meeting rooms in the offices of the various councils it will pass through.

    Ask those who have been trying to build a marina at Whangamata for twenty years.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. PhilBest (5,120 comments) says:

    Viking2 (262) 1 0 Says:

    February 28th, 2009 at 11:06 am
    “I accept that we haven’t seen any definitive list yet but so far as an owner of 3 small businesses I have yet to see a single thing that will assist us…..”

    THAT is the crux of the problem, that is why we are in this mess in the first place, and we will not get out of it until that changes.

    Owen McShane had a list in a recent NBR column, of a few development projects that have been held up for years in the RMA process, and have now been canned completely because the people trying to do them have given up, gone broke, or their financers have gone broke or otherwise pulled the plug. The total value was tens of billions of dollars.

    This is the Kafka-esque situation we are in. We have prevented tens of billions of dollars worth of economic activity from happening (and that is just one man’s off the top of the head list) and now Nanny State is saying that it needs to borrow a few tens of billions of dollars at the liability of future generations of taxpayers, to spend on projects that will get the NZ economy moving again……!

    FFS. FFS. FFS.

    And we have John “Helen Clark Lite” Key wondering out loud about using more borrowed billions of dollars at the liability of future generations of taxpayers, to prop up “icon” businesses like F&P.

    Suggestion: how about regarding anybody that provide jobs for NZ-ers, as a “New Zealand Icon”? How about propping up each and every one of them with an impartial, non-economy-distorting fiscal incentive called a reduction in taxes and regulatory burdens?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. PhilBest (5,120 comments) says:

    I remember Mike Ward (hey, anybody else remember him….?) telling Parliament once that cycling was so efficient that sometimes he got from Wellington Airport to Parliament faster that way than the car that brought his luggage……!

    And to this day, I am not sure that he or any of his colleagues have seen the irony…….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Owen McShane had a list in a recent NBR column, of a few development projects that have been held up for years in the RMA process, and have now been canned completely because the people trying to do them have given up, gone broke, or their financers have gone broke or otherwise pulled the plug. The total value was tens of billions of dollars.”

    Damn right. Progress and prosperity halted by fucking socialist lemmings. Head is sand fucking morons. Navel gazing commie stooges. Truck loads of the bastards fucking our country while NZ’s media cheered them on and politicians fiddled. If ever a country fucking well asked for it, it was this one.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    Damn right. Fucking lemmings. Head in sand fucking morons. Navel gazing right wing stooges. Truck loads of the bastards fucking our country while NZ’s media cheered them on and politicians fiddled. If ever a country fucking well asked for it, it was this one.

    Redbaiter, that is by far the best summary of jonkey’s jobzummit I have seen.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Paul Marsden (991 comments) says:

    If a cycleway is the best idea that the creme de la creme of NZ’s intelligentsia can come up with to save our sorry arses, then we’re all doomed, I say.

    Of course, I shall change my position should my business be appointed the preferred supplier of the construction materials.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. AG (1,823 comments) says:

    RB:

    “Progress and prosperity halted by fucking socialist lemmings.”

    If socialists are lemmings, isn’t the problem self-regulating? When there’s too many, they scatter in all directions (often dying in the process)? Leaving room for very important voices like yours to be heard?

    Perhaps you mean sheep. Accuracy is important, you know.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Redbaiter, that is by far the best summary of jonkey’s jobzummit I have seen.”

    Oh yeah you sad narcissistic loser. So desperate for attention you’re even ready to stoop to the cowardly and dishonest device of altering the text written by others.

    See readers- here’s another example of why we’re up shit creek without a paddle. The country has a surfeit of unprincipled amoral buckets of slime like Borker, too psychologically damaged by leftist dogma to even know right from wrong. A dangerous and costly millstone around any society’s neck.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. maurieo (95 comments) says:

    I opened my Waikato Times this morning to find amoung other things two stories one about the job summit and another about what people (individuals) are doing about the recession. In stark contrast the people at the job summit are sitting around in suits talking about things to do to that might help while at the other end of the scale those at the sharp end of the recession are tightening their belts by amoung other things getting cheaper haircuts, DIY, brewing their own beer and growing their own vegetables. Apparently corpoate sector visits to adult entertainment venues are less in number but they are spending more per visit. This is a classic instance of theory versus practice. Rather than asking the people at the top of the heap what they think might help ask those at the bottom of the heap what help they want.

    In real basic personal terms those individuals at the job summit will not be affected by the recession, they will still eat well, have a roof over their head, an income of sorts, power, phone and an annual holiday. On the other hand the unemployed will in some cases struggle to achieve some of these essentials. Those at the summit may well have ideas on how to improve things, but these ideas will not be at the expense of their fortunes or lifestyles. Many of them will see this as an opportunity to put forward ideas that will be good for them and their companies, the possibility that the unemployed may benefit being at best an added bonus. The trickle down theory.

    In some instances those at the summit represent interests that could potentially fail if they are not proped up by the taxpayer. These so called experts were unable to manage their interests to cater for lean times for which they now blame everone else. They now want to be helped though the bad times without changing what they do so that they can take advantage of better times. Why back something that has failed in the past , it deprives everyone of the lessons one learns from having failed and purpertrates stupidity. This is flat earth thinking in a spherical world, creationist theory aplied to a Darwinian world. What about survival of the fittest and adaptation to met the changing environment.

    As a self employed contractor I am someone who is perhaps closer to the sharp end of the recession than most. All I want is work and I am prepared to work for less in order to pay the bills and fill the stomach. Many of the solutions to the economic situation in NZ can be found by looking at what people at the bottom of the heap are doing. Making do with what you have, using labour to achieve results rather than money, looking for other income streams, diversifying, doing things differently, and trying new ways to achieve the same end. One thing is sure, their is no one answer, the silver bullet has completely missed the target.

    I would like to see an initiative where any one who wants to work can work on community work for the minimum wage. Where work is available 24/7 for those who want it. Work of a hands on nature, work that otherwise would not be done and work that would improve the look of our country and benfit all of us. Work that we can all be proud of. Many will say as they have said about the so called boot camps that it will not work. If we really want it to work we can make it work. The nay sayers say these things will not work because they do not want them to work. Why do they not want them to work I wonder?

    Spend time to ask and analyse in a scientific way the people most affected by the recession. What do they want and work out from that strategies and initiatives, Do not assume you know what they think or need. Do not ask there employers or those who purport to represent them as they have vested interests and in some instances conflicts of interest. Ask the people themselves, I think all they want is the dignity that comes from worthwhile work. Show some respect for the people and they will respect you for it. Ask and you will receive!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    “If a cycleway is the best idea that the creme de la creme of NZ’s intelligentsia can come up with to save our sorry arses, then we’re all doomed, I say.”

    My thoughts exactly, Paul.

    Fuck it’d be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “My thoughts exactly, Paul.”

    Me too. Fucken idiots in charge of the asylum.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. AG (1,823 comments) says:

    Reddy,

    Stop pretending to have thoughts. It’s disingenuous, to say the least.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    I’d really like to ask those four people who gave my first post on this thread the negative karma just exactly why they think a national cycle track is such a super thing.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    They’re going to make money from consulting fees??

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    Rather than asking the people at the top of the heap what they think might help ask those at the bottom of the heap what help they want.

    maurio, that’s not a bad post, but I wonder if we don’t already know what the people at the bottom of the heap actually need. I’d suggest it might be something along the lines of a job and some money. That’s probably about it, really.

    Possibly we don’t need a summit to discover that.

    Re: the wider point as to whom should be asked for input, well I’d rather suggest that if you wanted the best outcomes, it would make a whole lot more sense to direct your enquiries toward those with a track-record of success in the field. See if I want to know about how to live a comfortable lifestyle, the people I probably wouldn’t bother asking are those who spend their lives on the street. So with respect to your suggestion that some of the summiteers should not have been asked to participate merely because their own businesses are currently struggling, I can’t agree.

    You’re quite right about vested interests, as I’ve said before, there is nothing so vigorously defended as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction. No doubt some of the ideas presented had that factor in them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Andrew W (1,629 comments) says:

    Why is it that, when we need a more efficient economy to get things going again, everyone is pushing hard to increase the amount of socialism?

    Nine day fortnight? Beyond stupid.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    I have as much hope of the job summit as I did of the knowledge fucking wave. Stop the world I want to get off. Politicians the world over are quick to tell all that will listen to their rantings that we are to be saved, fucking bullshit. The problem is and always has been those professing they can save us. If JK wants to create jobs, real jobs he must attack the very government he represents. In most cases government is the problem, they claim they have our best interests at heart, fucking arse they do. The trouble for any government including our own is they have mostly sold their souls for a piece of power. We need a sea change in government before we will see any change. We need government that are truly our servants and we are not servants of the government. If we want to create jobs we need government to stand by us, not above us.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Owen McShane (1,226 comments) says:

    What about income splitting for married couples with children.
    At present married women go to work to earn the net income needed to compensate for the taxes paid by their husbands.
    Many would prefer to exit the labour force to look after the kids.
    IF a couple could split their income for tax many working husbands would end up paying little or no tax.
    So their net income would be the same.
    In the fifties and sixties a couple on the average income with two children paid no tax.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Paul Marsden (991 comments) says:

    Actually SSB, I had zero hope for the ‘knowledge wave’. Hell, I didn’t even know what it meant! But it got me thinking that perhaps Sir Ernst Rutherford and his ilk of that era, perhaps weren’t such clever dicks after all.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Owen McShane (1,226 comments) says:

    In the meantime the officers are Manukau City Council have recommended that Building and Resource Consent fees be increased by about 20% because demand is down and so revenues are down.
    Just as well they don’t run the corner dairy.
    They would soon be out of business.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. reid (16,183 comments) says:

    Nah the knowledge wave was fucked because Hulun’s a propaganda freak and that’s why she did it. Give people the illusion. The ideas it generated weren’t implemented because they didn’t suit the agenda.

    Key’s different. He’ll make sure it’s not just a talk-fest.

    The real question is, which particular actions are going to be done and what are the benefits arising therefrom.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    There are 10,000 people recruited into the public service since the Evil Empire took power. Get them a garden trowel each and they could start digging that cycle track on Monday. They should head north and when they get to Cape Reinga, they could then cycle back to Wellington to be shipped across the ditch to start work on th South Island.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. maurieo (95 comments) says:

    I am suggesting that we train and employ people to go out and listen to those affected by the recession. Listen to and analyse what it is they need and on the basis of that research try to implement programmes and initiatives that address their needs in a simple and direct way. I too agree that it will most likely be jobs and money that they want however I believe that a number of differenet initiatives to suit a wide variety of people could come from this. I mean people who are trained specifically for this task to listen, not people think they know the answer already. If we want a solution to the problem we must work until we find one, not say it wont work and give up.

    We have a large number of skilled people in our workforce whose skills are not documented. Listening to those affected by the recession could reveal resources that we did not know existed and these resources could be put to good use.

    In regards to people on the street, I agree that asking them for solutions might not result in many productive ideas. Those that were on the street in the good times would be unaffected by the recession, their lifestyle will not change markedly just as the lifestyle of most of those at the summit will be largely unaffected by the recession. For some living on the street is their lifestyle of choice and they do not want to change, it is other people who want them to change because they do not like what they see.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Interesting to think about the political dynamics and how they change according to our economic situation.

    When everybody thought things were hunky dory, so many of the dull witted amongst us voted Labour, and in return for providing them with the power that is always their obsession, Labour stole money from the productive, and gave it to these lick spittle supporters.

    Some received it in cash handouts, others received it by means of work for the dole schemes in government departments. Where they busied themselves dreaming up laws and regulations and orders and licences and fees and levies to make it harder for the productive sector to generate the wealth that paid their wages.

    Eventually they brought the system to its knees. Just as so many writers on Kiwiblog and similar speakers elsewhere have been predicting for years. We were told to STF up. That we didn’t understand modern economics. That we lacked the intelligence to cope with the political and financial nuances of the neo-socialist society.

    So now the money supply has dried up. As I always knew it would. So what have we got now, but a lot of arrogant socialists all dressed up in the latest gear provided for them by Helen Klarkovich, and nowhere to go. Nothing left for these grasshoppers but the dole queue.

    So they’re still asking the productive sector of society to provide them with a living. Even after they voted for a system that was always going to go broke, and just to make sure it did, they attacked private enterprise in droves.

    If these ever been a pack of bastards who were the authors of their own misfortune its Labour’s work for the dole public servants. I reckon they should be denied any welfare for 12 months on the grounds that they made it impossible to generate the wealth necessary to pay the dole they now seek.

    Fuck em. Make the grasping greedy leftist bastards face the real consequences of their selfish power driven junket. It will do them so much good.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. brucehoult (199 comments) says:

    While hardly the kind of thing I’d expect to come out of a serious think-tank, if a cycle way the length of the country can really be built for $50m then it’s an absolutely fucking bargain. $12 a head? Wow.

    As for those who say it would not be used … they clearly have not driven the West coast of the South Island in summer in the last ten or fifteen years. The place is thick with touring bicycles.

    I reckon the section between Wellington and Kapiti would see a heck of a lot of commuters too, at least as far as Porirua.

    I motorcycle to work. I’ve often thought of bicycling, but the lack of a good route and showers at work has put me off. Instead I go out for a 30 or 40 km ride in the evening after work when I can. Those who know me will know I’m not the image of a typical cyclist. e.g. I’m 120 kg. If I can do it then anyone can (it’s far more enjoyable than walking or running).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Paul Marsden (991 comments) says:

    Building stats are the bell-weather of the economy. The Government could kill many birds with one stone by focusing on housing construction and providing low-cost loans to those most in need and/or, are able to contribute. One of the conditions of any Government assistance should be, that where ever possible, building materials must be of NZ orgin (providing that price and quailty criteria, are met). Burrowers could also help themselves (if able) by participating in the construction of their own homes (and perhaps learning new skills), such as painting/landscaping/concreting etc. Their labour input could be amortamised against their loan, on a quid pro quo basis. Building material manufacturers would work closely with Government in not only taking on the unemployed, but also would be teaching them new skill sets. Of course, as with any construction activity, all trades benefit. It would only take a Government led initiative to implement and to set up a pilot project (with interested participants) and from which all the nuts and bolts could be sorted. I can’t see any rocket science involved at all. Everybody works as team and everybody is a winner

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “While hardly the kind of thing I’d expect to come out of a serious think-tank, if a cycle way the length of the country can really be built for $50m then it’s an absolutely fucking bargain.”

    I explained above how the money will be spent. After all that’s finished with, to do the actual work, there will only be enough money to pay a couple of Ghanians with shovels and a Somalian on a bobcat. It’ll take them 200 years.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Paul Marsden (991 comments) says:

    To expedite matters further, all Local Authority employees engaged in building consents and the like, should be frog-marched at gun-point from their offices, and all matters relating to residential building permits etc, be taken over by one, central authority.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. AG (1,823 comments) says:

    Paul Marsden:
    “One of the conditions of any Government assistance should be, that where ever possible, building materials must be of NZ orgin (providing that price and quailty criteria, are met).”

    Unfortunately, this sounds like just the kind of protectionist measure that successive governments of both stripes have spent years agreeing they can’t adopt. Interesting dilemma … do we be ruthless free traders in an effort to boost our dairy/agricultural export industry, or do we be Kiwi-firsters in an effort to boost our construction industry? Discuss.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Viking2 (11,340 comments) says:

    It’ll take them 200 years.
    More if they find some Maori bones.

    Seriously for those of us from the baby boomer generation it looks like a great idea. When its finished in two years time and we all start to retire we will be able to rent a four wheel mobilty scooter and travel in style all the way from top to bottom of the country.
    We have a couple of requests. We will need recharging stations at appropriate intervals,(perhaps the same places as the internet plugs. Just so we can keep our kids informed you know.), We will need many designer loos’ (bladders aren’t all they used to be these days.),Lots of cafe and wine bars with beer because this is a lifetime experience and we now have plenty of time why rush. Chalets,(tents won’t cut the mustard), well provisioned, meals supplied,warm, spa pools for easing the strained mussels after an arduous day, again not too far apart ,with plenty of security, (we don’t want the underclass stealing our stuff ).
    Dr’s not too far away,(its the heart you see.)

    Sounds like a lot of fun to me so why shouldn’t we hock our grandkids future and live it up?
    Oh and one other thing. Labour voters not allowed. They can be the fetch and carry boys and girls since they made us poor.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Viking2 (11,340 comments) says:

    Ag easy answer. Stop trying to control the economy through the Reserve Bank Act. Dollar down imports too expensive to use.
    Just what we should have done instead of trying to stabilise pricing.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Owen McShane (1,226 comments) says:

    One of the benefits of the deregulation of the 80s was that the cost of building materials fell and so construction costs of houses fell.

    Sadly the bureaucrats drove up the price of land to more than compensate and so overall housing costs rose and delivered the mess we have today..
    This impact on construction was demonstrated in my report to the Reserve Bank in 1996.
    IT was not just imports were cheaper – our local monopoly manufacturers brought down their own costs and became competitive with imports and some even began to export..
    Remember, if cannot compete with imports in your home market you do not much hope of competing in export markets.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. JC (942 comments) says:

    Viking2,

    Good ideas for the Baby Boomers. Just one thing.. we’ll need to bring in a law to ban those cyclist hoons from using the same tracks..

    JC

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. richgraham (28 comments) says:

    I submitted to Mr Gerry Brownlee a proposal which would improve employment in NZ. Having looked over the ‘ideas’ from the summit, it seems to me my proposal has more merit than some of the summit ones.
    Background – I have worked in the IT industry for some decades and have extensive experience both in NZ and overseas, in all sorts of roles in IT development.
    In the early 1980s I worked in the Health Dept in St Lukes Auckland, on their infamous payroll system.
    The bureaucrats of the time decided to take on a US payroll system rather than a NZ-based one, and spent vast sums of taxpayers money installing, maintaining and running that system, incurring needles expense, AND employing American developers at appalling contract rates. NZ software was not deemed acceptable.
    Same again with the famous DSW Swift system, NZ systems and software services are not acceptable for the next generation, so they went with Oracle, and failed. The current replacement technology is foreign. NZ software not good enough.
    My proposal was for the new government to impel NZ government departments and related institutions to take NZ software services more seriously and report why they could not use NZ-sourced services.

    Consider the Christchurch City Council new system (still NOK) $100 million later. NZ solutions were available. NZ software not good enough.

    Wouldn’t this fit well across the political spectrum too ?

    and please no jibes about NZers not being up to it.

    Buy NZ-made – software and services.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. Paul Marsden (991 comments) says:

    AG. I am an avid supporter of free trade, but in part, what Viking2 said. And in part, because I am highly suspect of all local and central government tendering processes. When I see imported materials being used in local projects when similar (if not more or less, identical products), can be manufactured and supplied locally (and at substantially less price), I get suspicious. I get even more suspicious when tender notices are not advertised.

    Sometime ago, I once hand delivered a tender to a local authority which I knew for a fact, was by far the cheapest. When I followed up and ask why my tender was not accepted, they claimed they had not received it. Figure it out for yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. jarbury (464 comments) says:

    Surely one day we’ll have an intelligent comments thread on this blog. It’s a pity for a number of people on here that do want to share ideas that they get drowned out by the ideological nonsense and bashing that comes from both sides of the political spectrum.

    Surely we can all do better.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Viking2 (11,340 comments) says:

    Intelligent, nah, why would we? We thrive in a country thats run by the intelligency with disastrous results.
    Its good to be flippant occasionally.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. berend (1,699 comments) says:

    Paul Marsden: One of the conditions of any Government assistance should be, that where ever possible, building materials must be of NZ orgin

    Protectionism is a very bad idea. Better remove our zoning laws. All our inflated prices need to go down. And we need to prevent our Reserve Bank from destroying our dollar which they will do in March.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. big bruv (13,672 comments) says:

    So we have had the “Job Summit”, am I the only member of the VRWC who is brave enough to say…..IS THAT IT?

    A nine day working week and a fucking cycle track from one end of the country to the other????

    Come on guys, lets not be as partisan and blinded by ideology as those idiots from the left, we are all entitled to ask Key and the Nat’s “what was the bloody point” if you can only come up with these pissy recommendations.

    I suspected the summit was nothing more than a sham from the start, I have heard the odd whisper that any really radical ideas were quickly shut down by the Nat’s as being “politically unacceptable”, FFS!!!…we are facing a crisis and all those bastards are worried about are political considerations?

    It was always going to be a waste of time, you invite a bunch of middle aged big business men along and ask them to think about something that is not going to affect 99.9% of them, theses guys are captains of industry, they are never going to lose their jobs and even if they did it is not going to affect them in the same way as it will the heavily mortgaged and over taxed middle class chap who gets the push.

    If Key really wanted some ideas or solutions then he would have been far better speaking to those at the coal face, these are the men who run and own small business in NZ, they deal in the real world every day.
    Your big business chap has the problem that the further up the corporate shit ladder he climbs the more divorced he is from reality, sure he can read a balance sheet but he does not know what is happening on the ground, I would wager heavily that the chaps doing the actual work have a far better grasp of the real problems than some guy in a flash suit who sits in the corner office, of course there are the odd exceptions but from my experience these are few and far between.

    The “Job Summit” was a public relations exercise, nothing more and nothing less, it was (as Sir Humphrey used to say in Yes Minister) a case of being seen to do “something” without actually doing anything.
    What annoys me the most is that Key does not need to gather 200 people into a room to find the solutions when the very man that CAN provide them sits at a desk not very far from him in the house, it is time for Key to use the undoubted talents of Sir Roger Douglas, Sir Roger could offer in two hours what 200 men ins suits could not offer in eight hours.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Yeah!

    What Big bruv says!

    If they really meant business, the place would’ve been filled with successful Waikato business men who know how to get pissed in a brewery.

    The very peole who voted National in. Don’t tell me Waikato is the National parties South Auckland!

    Vote them in and in return get ignored.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. big bruv (13,672 comments) says:

    I agree Wiki; it is time for Sir Roger and ACT to start throwing rocks at the Nat’s, not little pebbles but fucking great big boulders.
    I want to see Sir Roger come out with another of his alternative budgets, lets get some real ideas on the table, I still firmly believe that Kiwi’s (the working ones not the Labour voting academic wanker types) trust Sir Roger and know that we face a shit storm of gigantic proportions, Kiwi’s respond well in a crisis we deal with the truth better than lies and cover ups, if only Key could see this, if Key was brave and took the really hard decisions the people of NZ would reward him.

    What a pity he is not.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. V (711 comments) says:

    A national cycleway, surely that is not the premier idea from the premier business leaders and thinkers in NZ…
    It’s making ideas featured in the Simpsons look great by comparison…
    how about a monorail, popsicle-stick skyscraper, giant magnifying glass or an escalator to nowhere … anyone?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. kiwi in america (2,495 comments) says:

    It is instructive to look at what got the world to the current state it is in. It can be summed up in one sentence: inappropriate government meddling in free markets. When the Carter then Clinton Administrations directing and encouraging the giant quasi federal government backed mortgage securitization entities (so-called Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) to buy as much sub-prime mortgage paper as could be offered, it sparked an orgy of bad lending that eventually collapsed – all done for the innocent sounding goal of promoting affordable housing. When you add the aggressive lobbying and advocacy of community groups like ACORN who bullied the remaining home lenders who tried to stick to normal prudent lending practices into these crazy loans that virtually anyone could qualify for, you get massive portfolios of Mortgage Backed Securities formally valued into the billions effectively worth zero in the current market.

    Now plenty of mortgage lenders and Wall St investment houses took advantage of these encouragements and racked up billions in fees from the many inappropriate loans whether as loan originators at the retail level or loan aggregators at the wholesale level packaging these loans for the big bond markets. It is important to note that in 2006 – actually driven by Sen John McCain – the Bush White House tried to reign in the tactics of Fannie and Freddie with tighter solvency requirements ostensibly to slow the juggernaut down and bring more sanity to lending policies. The Democrats by then controlled Congress and would have none of it. Sen Dodds (D- CT) chaired the Senate Banking Committe and Barney Franks (D – MA06) did the same in the House. Both are on the public record defending these profligate practices because they help low income earners and talking up the solvency and soundness of Freddie and Fannie.

    When property values turned, sales slowed and default rates rose and suddenly these sub prime packages of mortgages that were the darlings of Wall St became worthless. This dagged down the A paper MBS (or conforming/prime mortgages) and when that happened, suddenly Wall St went from a credit crisis to a liquidity crisis of the types not seen since the massive Depression era bank failures. New credit issuing ground to a halt and suddenly Wall St’s problem became Main St’s problem as the productive sector of the US economy couldnt borrow ANY money. Investors panicked and bailed on the Stock market and buyers slammed their wallets shut and presto we have a nasty global recession.

    Government has a regulatory role for sure. But the genesis of this crisis tells us that if you try to skewer markets with regulatory interference, you get bad outcomes. If you encourage and then bully banks and lenders into bad lending practices all in the name of helping the poor, then you reap what you sow. When someone tries to stop the runaway train you put politics aside and deal to the issue in rational and practical ways. The Democrats played aggressive politics with Bush seeking to do anything to embarrass and oppose him and perhaps had they been less ideological and more practical, the saner voices in their caucus could’ve prevailed so that Congress and Bush could’ve gradually turned this Titanic away from the iceberg.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. clintheine (1,570 comments) says:

    BB, you’re right and I for one agree that us evil VRWC members should be more vocal. But let me put this into perspective (and I did blog about this myself). Imagine that the left wing bloggers got their way, and they got their “representatives” into this summit. You think that a lame cycleway and a 9 day fortnight is limp wristed?

    Jesus, you can imagine what their prescription would be. They were all crowing about the crisis meaning the end of capitalism! Put it this way, the idea that there is a master plan to fix the economy is absolute nonsense. But it could be a hell of a lot worse.

    I think at last count the usual blogs, NRT, Bomber, Hand Mirror, Standard were all in favour of taking out all the white men and replacing them with more women, unemployed, unionist, maori people. This goes totally against even them, as they always say that rich white men control NZ, so of course they should be overrepresented at this summit :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,824 comments) says:

    Crisis averted?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. AG (1,823 comments) says:

    kiwi in america:

    There’s a cartoon based almost entirely on your post…

    http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/02/24/tomo/index.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    So KIA do you think Obama has the ability to save the US let alone the world?. I’m sure if Mr Obama had been the captain of the Titanic he would have stood on the bridge and told all the passengers that the ship’s workshop was busy building more life boats and the third class passengers would be the first to board them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. TimG_Oz (925 comments) says:

    Reid wrote:

    I’d really like to ask those four people who gave my first post on this thread the negative karma just exactly why

    Maybe they read some of your other posts also?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. mickysavage (786 comments) says:

    Good comment AG

    So kiwi in america, did FDR cause the current crisis with his god forsaken socialist liberal agenda which happened to pull the US out of the last depression? Should we have left it all to market forces then?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. tom hunter (4,665 comments) says:

    So kiwi in america, did FDR cause the current crisis with his god forsaken socialist liberal agenda which happened to pull the US out of the last depression?

    Rather than rely on a current Labour sycophant let’s turn to the people of that time for their comment – in this case Franklin Roosevelt’s Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau Jr. testifying to the House Ways and Means Committee in May 1939:

    We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started … And an enormous debt to boot!

    Hat tip to Not PC

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Hat tip to Not PC”

    Always amazing what these leftist dipshits like the immature fool using the handle Mickysavage don’t know. Like they wear intellectual blinkers.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. expat (4,048 comments) says:

    Good comment Tom Hunter.

    So sycophant Mickey, discuss.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. expat (4,048 comments) says:

    Well Red, they do say masturbating makes you blind.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. kiwi in america (2,495 comments) says:

    mickysavage
    WW2 hauled America out of the Depression. Unemployment was still barely below 20% 8 years after the New Deal had splashed Federal money everywhere as Roosevelt’s Treasury Secretary so eloquently put it. Obama proposes more of the same and will get the same result. His new budget proposes tax increases on the very sector of the economy that produces the very jobs his package is seeking to create. What did Hoover’s tax increases in 1932 do? They turned what was a nasty recession into a full blown Depression. The left have been mythologising the New Deal ever since because it so greatly elevated the level of government involvement in the economy that it was an ideological triumph for them. Economically, like most policies enacted by true lefties, it was unsuccessful.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. MikeMan (171 comments) says:

    Owen McShane (575) Vote: 9 1 Says:

    February 28th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
    What about income splitting for married couples with children.
    At present married women go to work to earn the net income needed to compensate for the taxes paid by their husbands.
    Many would prefer to exit the labour force to look after the kids.
    IF a couple could split their income for tax many working husbands would end up paying little or no tax.

    Hear Hear.

    I am an IT professional who is well paid but still finding life can be tough at times. My wife and I have been responsible and had one child in this marrige as that is what we can reasonably afford. We have one other dependant who is a child of my wifes previous marrige. I earn a good living being on approx $90K base, on that $90K I pay $26,370 in income tax. My wife is now having to return to work 1-2 days a week t omake ends meet if you will. We would prefer that she stayed home and looked after the little one and to be honest if their was income splitting we could do it, paying tax on 2 x $45K would save us $6930 a year which is more than she will be earning on one day a week at her job.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.