2009 Freedom Forum
June 28th, 2009 at 9:18 am by David FarrarFrom Thursday to Saturday, DC time, I have been at the 2009 Freedom Forum – an annual event put on by the International Young Democrat Union.
Today we heard from Manda Zand-Ervin who heads up the Alliance of Iranian Women. They work with women inside Iran helping them to establish the foundation of a civil society and trying to publicise to media the plight of the women and children of Iran.
Women actually had equal rights in early Iran until around 623 AD when it become Islamic. Before the 1970s Islamic takeover women again had managed equal rights but now count as one-half of a man. Women do not get the custody of their children, do not have the choice in their clothing, residence, leaving the house, working, education or travelling without the permission of their husband.
Girls are “allowed” to marry is nine. Men can divorce the women at any time they wish and can marry several wives in addition to them. Girls inherit one-half of that which boys do.
One area of non discrimination though is hanging – around 200 women were hanged in 2008. And Iran sits on the Human Rights Commission dealing with women’s rights.
We also had a speaker from Cuba – a relatively young guy who left only a few months ago. He had been a pro-democracy activist so hadd been arrested and beaten up by the state on numerous occassions. Finally it got so bad he got out.
Chatting to anouther Cuban, I found out there is actually a law in Cuba which translated basically is for “pre-criminal social dangerousness”. Yes they actually convict you for pre-crimes – just like in minority report!
We do not realise how fortunate we are in the freedoms we take for granted – but the price for them is vigilance.
June 28th, 2009 at 9:44 am
“an annual event put on by the International Young Democrat Union.”
Yuk!….I cannot think of much worse than being stuck in a room with hundreds of pinkos chanting “yes we can”
[DPF: Democrat, not Democratic. The IDU is the federation of center right parties and was founded by Thatcher, Kohl, Reagan etc]
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Well thank god for that, for a moment I though you had gone over to the dark side.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Women actually had equal rights in early Iran until around 623 AD when it become Islamic.
The Sassanids were interesting folk, but women certainly didn’t have equal rights prior to Islam – they were chattel not people, could not own property, rich men had harems etc. And women under the Shah were certainly ‘equal’, in the same way that men and women under Saddam Hussein were ‘equal’. Sounds like there’s a bit of revisionism going around.
For a great book about women in Iran you can’t really go past Marjane Satrapi’s graphic novel Persepolis. It’s dedicated to Paul Wolfowitz!
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am
It’s hard to believe any societies pre 623 AD had equality of sexes, no?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am
‘freedom forum’..
..such a cia kinda name..
..eh..?
“we are the freedom forum fighters..!
..we battle the scourge of communism..!”
(has your de-briefing/new orders happened yet..?)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:49 am
all joking aside..dpf..
..have you ever been ‘approached’ by them..?
..and if not..why on earth not..?
i mean..they wouldn’t be doing their jobs..if they didn’t ..eh..?
i mean..how could you be more ‘perfect’ for them..?
(political influence/media..etc..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:54 am
623 AD those were the days.
Islam wasn’t all bad but it did turn to crap after Islamic leaders picked up left wing ideas of the one party state from the 1920s & 1930s onwards.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:57 am
‘freedom’ in this context..
actually means the (continued) ‘freedom’ of the rightwing elites..(in the ascendancy for so long..)
..to continue fucking the rest of us/the world over..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Islam wasn’t all bad but it did turn to crap after Islamic leaders picked up left wing ideas of the one party state from the 1920s & 1930s onwards.
Yeah, that really ruined the free, democratic pluralism of the divine caliphate.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 11:01 am
“..Chatting to anouther Cuban, I found out there is actually a law in Cuba which translated basically is for “pre-criminal social dangerousness”. Yes they actually convict you for pre-crimes – just like in minority report!.”
gee..!..that sounds so remarkably similar to the new ‘consorting with criminals’/association laws this govt is bringing in..
..(ostensibly to ‘control the gangs’..)
..i look forward to seeing you on the barricades..
..dpf..
..(and you played the ‘vigilance’-card..?
..brilliant..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 11:09 am
and at the ‘heritage foundation’..eh..?
wiki-sez:..
“..Heritage Foundation has actively pushed for privatization, deregulation, cuts in social spending, and pre-emptive military strikes.
It played a key role in the march to war against Iraq..”
quite a classy crew you are hanging with there..eh david..?
..getting down with the war-mongers..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 11:25 am
For chrissakes can’t this rambling bludging boring narcissist be banned.? The last thing I come to Kiwiblog for is to read his shit and this morning the whole damn site is full of it.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Phil is clearly deranged.
I think he should get a life-time ban.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
“Sounds like there’s a bit of revisionism going around. ”
To be honest, I don’t care if there is a bit of revisionism going on, what I care about is that in 2009 the women in Iran lack such freedom.
As usual however, there doesn’t appear to be any outrage from the left on this blog about that. I’d be genuinely interested to hear the views of socialists on this.
Show me your outrage…just this once…please?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 11:51 am
“..Phil is clearly deranged..”
have you ever seen/read reddy in full-throated roar..?
whoar..!
..and gee..!..i thought rightwingers supported free-speech..?
..is that yet another illusion i must bury..?
phil()whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
To be honest, I don’t care if there is a bit of revisionism going on, what I care about is that in 2009 the women in Iran lack such freedom.
As usual however, there doesn’t appear to be any outrage from the left on this blog about that. I’d be genuinely interested to hear the views of socialists on this.
Show me your outrage…just this once…please?
I don’t see how you can demand outrage from the left when you, yourself have failed to demonstrate your outrage over the 1941 Baatan Death March. I’d be fascinated to hear the views of fascists on this. Just for once why doesn’t the right have some self-respect?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
DPF I was interested on your statements regarding women in Iran.
I assume they apply for women in other islamic states nearby.
Anyone who has ever had anything to do with women knows that as a group women are revolting.
Why don’t they?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Hey Phil – have YOU ever been approached by ‘them’? You know, the little green guys?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
do you mean dick green..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Persian History
“, the Sassanids laid claim to all the territory once ruled by the Achaemenids They continued to whittle away at Roman territory for the next 400 years, eventually coming to control most of the provinces once ruled by Cyrus et al. This all fell apart, however, when the Roman emperor Heraclius launched a successful counter-invasion in A.D. 623-628, which threw the Persian state into total chaos from which it never recovered.”
Damn you Heraclius, damn you to hell!
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Coming from the dark side sonic you would know all about “hell!”.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
“L’enfer, c’est les autres”, Father Ted.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
“I don’t see how you can demand outrage from the left when you, yourself have failed to demonstrate your outrage over the 1941 Baatan Death March.”
Danyl, how do you know whether or not I have ever expressed my outrage at the 1941 Baatan Death March? I find any murderous behaviour outrageous.
Right, back to 2009. What are your views on the oppression of, and discrimination against, the women in Iran?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Yes we have freedom in New Zealand.. We just don’t have a written constitution to back it up..
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Today we heard from Manda Zand-Ervin who heads up the Alliance of Iranian Women. They work with women inside Iran helping them to establish the foundation of a civil society and trying to publicise to media the plight of the women and children of Iran.
Women actually had equal rights in early Iran until around 623 AD when it become Islamic. Before the 1970s Islamic takeover women again had managed equal rights but now count as one-half of a man. Women do not get the custody of their children, do not have the choice in their clothing, residence, leaving the house, working, education or travelling without the permission of their husband.
Girls are “allowed” to marry is nine. Men can divorce the women at any time they wish and can marry several wives in addition to them. Girls inherit one-half of that which boys do.
Women in Iraq also suffer like this. They didn’t used to, until the USofA decided on “regime change”, supported by the World Wide Right Wing Arseholes. Suddenly, Iraq went from a secular state to a clerical state and THAT, according to the right, is “freedom”.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Baathism, has corrupted Islamic codes and honour.
Iraq under Hussein, and its other client state Syria.
Women always seem to get a really bad deal under any of the many Islamic factions, and yet from the same area, tribe, and structure.
The ‘Special Ones’ of the Jewish faith evolved a Matriarchal society, very similar to the Greek way under Roman control.
Very mixed up, and difficult to understand.
As for womens rights to-day, my wife is always right!!
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
The Silent Majority (33) Vote: 5 1 Says:
June 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am
“Sounds like there’s a bit of revisionism going around. ”
To be honest, I don’t care if there is a bit of revisionism going on, what I care about is that in 2009 the women in Iran lack such freedom.
As usual however, there doesn’t appear to be any outrage from the left on this blog about that. I’d be genuinely interested to hear the views of socialists on this.
I am what you would call a socialist.
I have often spoken out about Islam and its treatment of human rights.
Have you noticed one of the groups supporting the No vote on the child beating referendum is the Islamic Federation of NZ? I have, and I know that if they succeed with this, they will also want the right to bash women.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Bork Bork
“Women in Iraq also suffer like this. They didn’t used to, until the USofA decided on “regime change”, supported by the World Wide Right Wing Arseholes. Suddenly, Iraq went from a secular state to a clerical state and THAT, according to the right, is “freedom”.
You been hanging out with Philu the Boring again?
What utter crap!!
You been sampling Ure’s home baking?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
are you so angry..gluty..
..’cos yr rightwing (bankrup)t ideology..
..is just that..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
I wonder why phool keeps talking. Everyone ignores him except for when the time comes for a healthy mocking.
By the way, a protip: the full word goes in between brackets.
..eh..?
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
So who pays for the Freedom Forum I wonder?
http://www.iydu.org/index.php
(oh and ps, how do they define “young”)
[DPF: Not sure about everyone else but Dick Cheney paid my airfare]
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
“I am what you would call a socialist.
I have often spoken out about Islam and its treatment of human rights.”
Billyborker, if I hadn’t already given you a negative karma for being a socialist I would have given you the thumbs up for speaking out against Islam and it’s treatment of human rights. Hopefully by that you mean the treatment of women and gays. Hallejulah!
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Hopefully by that you mean the treatment of women and gays. Hallejulah!
TSM, there are no gay rights. There are no women’s rights.
There are only human rights.
And Islam is not the only opponent of human rights. All religions are anti human rights.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
“All religions are anti human rights.’
Some more so than others, if you consider the severity of the consequences.
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Billyborker, perhaps you should meet with some Islamic fundamentalists, judging by your comments you guys would have lots in common!
Vote:June 28th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
sonic, I have nothing in common with the idiots of religion.
Marx was right about religion, as he was right about so much else.
Vote:June 30th, 2009 at 2:44 am
“Chatting to anouther Cuban, I found out there is actually a law in Cuba which translated basically is for “pre-criminal social dangerousness””
Plenty of laws like that here DPF.
Vote: