A punishment that fits the crime
Stuff reports:
Five Auckland schoolboys who made a tearful apology to war veterans for worshipping Nazi symbols will now teach museum visitors about the horrors of the Nazi regime.
The five students caused outrage when they kissed a swastika, bowed before a Nazi banner and gave a Nazi salute during an Auckland Grammar School visit to the Auckland War Memorial Museum.
What a good idea. Don’t expel or suspend them, but make them teach visitors to the museum about the Nazis. A real case of a punishment fitting the crime.
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Tags: Auckland Grammar
October 21st, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Punishment for doing what exactly. I would be much happier if the horrors of the treatment of Arabs by Israel were exposed.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:17 pm
It was bad taste, but I do not understand why this is such a big news story. Nazi history is freely available and well-enough understood in this country. I don’t think anyone could seriously believe fascism is on the rise in inner-city Auckland?
Sorry for the repost, but again – all those enjoying (or participating in) the vilification-by-media of these silly schoolboys might like to stop and consider that in fighting the swastika, our fathers were fighting for the survival of the kind of nation where the freedom to be silly schoolboys exists.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Are we allowing off topic posts now? I would be much happier if the All Blacks started winning, and we instituted a 4 day working week.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I don’t think anyone could seriously believe fascism is on the rise in inner-city Auckland?
I don’t think that’s the point.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Stephen – then what exactly is the point? That boys will be boys?
October 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pm
“A real case of a punishment fitting the crime.”
What crime sorry?
October 21st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
They should have been caned.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:54 pm
You’re hosting another nazi I see David. You know the rules.
October 21st, 2009 at 2:58 pm
The media was grossly over the top – but if these guys do some museum work teaching about about Nazism it actually may end up doing them a lot of good, even if it seems far more of a punishment than is warranted.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Punishment for exercising freedom. Punishment for being self-centred. Punishment for insulting someone else.
They should have been allowed to do whatever they wanted. If they refused to apologise, then the public could form their own opinions and they’d realise there are real consequences to insulting people. The school punishing kids for this kind of thing is taking precious feelings too far.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Stephen – then what exactly is the point? That boys will be boys?
Jews are the reason Germany lost WW1!! I mean – being exceedingly offensive while representing AGS. While boys will be boys is probably something that AGS subscribes to to some extent, punishment needed.
Will be glad when this is over, yech.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Probably a much bigger scandal and greater insult to the memories of our war dead is the move to rename the Auckland War Memorial Museum as just Auckland Museum. Is nothing sacred?
The outrage over what these schoolboys did at the Museum becomes somewhat hypocritical. IMVHO their biggest crime was not having the intelligence to make mature judgements over what should go on Facebook.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
There’s been a development in the slightly earlier case of Lincoln University students going to a party in Nazi costume.
In a name-withheld letter in the Christchurch Press today a person who says he/she was the person who tipped off the the MSM about the incident in the first place says:”…what the university is doing to the students is deplorable.”
“They are facing steep monetary sanctions and other punishments. This will only breed anger and resentment.”
The whistle blower says:”… it boggles my mind how anyone can justify imposing a monetary fine on them. We should nto forget they were allowed to attend the party by university employees.”
And adds: “…Lincoln must not fight ignorance with injustice.”
October 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I’m hoping that we will see kids giving lessons on the evils of communism if they wear a Che Guevara T-shirt.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:19 pm
“A real case of a punishment fitting the crime.”
Didn’t know you supported ‘thought crimes’ DPF. These boys were acting stupid on purpose to take stupid photos. Even if they were serious, no ‘crime’ has taken place here.
“I’m hoping that we will see kids giving lessons on the evils of communism if they wear a Che Guevara T-shirt.”
I’m sure at least one of these kids will be seen walking around with Che Guevara shirt in less than a month.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Fuck, give it a rest Murray.
I’d pull out the old “My grandparents fought in WW2″ story, but its wasted on someone as trollish as you.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:32 pm
The fuss about this is just sickening, these silly kids are being exploited by adults using this nonsense to promote their own self-righteousness.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:40 pm
David: Not sure where you are getting the idea that there is a move to rename the Museum. This is entirely untrue, and is otherwise legislated by our Act of Parliament, 1996.
There are three official titles for the Museum. Those are Auckland Museum, Auckland War Memorial Museum and Tamaki Paenga Hira. The museum’s longest-serving title, Auckland Museum, has existed since 1852. The title Auckland War Memorial Museum came into use almost 90 years later, in 1929, when the new building was constructed in the Auckland Domain. The title Auckland War Memorial Museum is used most often when specifically referencing the war memorial aspect of the museum. Auckland Museum has always been used when talking about the museum generally. We are extremely proud of both our names.
To clear up one other thing that David didn’t mention, but other commentors in other threads have: the Museum never asked for an apology from the boys or the school. We simply offered to facilitate a meeting between veterans that had taught the boys that day they were in the Museum, and the boys themselves. Museums and War Memorials don’t need or require apologies. All we want to do is be a place of discourse about issues like this, so young people can learn. We hope that a bit of that took place yesterday.
Thanks for listening.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:17 pm
For the punishment to have fit the crime we should not know about it. This whole story has been a massive beat up. Don’t get me wrong they were silly kids and I have no doubt they will regret their actions but did it really warrant the muesem being staked out by photogrophers and breathless tv articles? Get a grip.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:41 pm
tvb gets bad karma for questioning the awful treatment of the Arabs by the occupants of the Occupied Territories.
Does anybody read Kiwiblog on Yom Kippur?
October 21st, 2009 at 9:18 pm
The irony in all of this is that many of those most noisily getting into a moral panic over a bored schoolboy prank would be the first to take the money and collaborate with the forces of an occupying dictator – whereas rebel nonconformists like the boys would be risking their lives and dying in the Resistance.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:35 pm
The boys may have preferred something more traditional – but that woud have upset Sue Bradford.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Great, humiliating teenagers who know they’ve fucked up.
October 22nd, 2009 at 5:34 am
Cha, Andrew W and Alan W are right on the money.
A bunch of boys who thought they were funny when they weren’t. Gee, that’s never happened before.
In the good old days they would have got six and been told not to be fuckwits.
Now they get handed over to the Department of Mind Control and are on the receiving end of a media frenzy/ambush extravaganza that used to be reserved for serial rapists and child botherers but is now extended to silly boys and cats stuck up trees. A wonderful opportunity for the PC Sanctimony Police (should that be Nazis?) to make themselves feel good.
peterwn
An alternative to the more traditional treatment might have been to actually get 5 mins locked in a room with the formerly green gargoyle.
October 22nd, 2009 at 6:25 am
Punishment and crime? FFS !! What a stupid beat up over nothing. No wonder this country has appalling social issues that the spineless media never highlight. New Zealand is fast becoming a country run by a demented media who adore pathetic beat ups. Get a spine MSM you deranged creeps. Blut und Oden you wimps.
October 22nd, 2009 at 6:53 am
I have seen photos from WWII showing NZ soldiers goose-stepping and doing stiff arm salutes to a Nazi flag. I wonder if they should have apologized? This has been blown out of all proportion. Meanwhile, a government minister meets with gang members with swastikas tatooed on their faces.
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 am
child abuse by media.
will the childrens commissioner take it up with the media council.
ha
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 am
Tauhei Notts
October 21st, 2009 at 6:41 pm
“tvb gets bad karma for questioning the awful treatment of the Arabs by the occupants of the Occupied Territories.
Does anybody read Kiwiblog on Yom Kippur?”
There are no Arabs in the “occupied territories” Tauhei (well, apart from the “rent-a-jihadis” fighting with Hamas). The people that live there are called Palestinians, and they’re not Arabs at all. Many would be offended if you called them Arabs. You ignorant git.
Rufus
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 am
Brian Smaller talks about photos of NZ soldiers in WW2 goose-stepping and saluting a Nazi flag.
I have with me, right now, a photo taken on the quarterdeck of one of Her Majesty’s ‘little ships’ in the Marlborough Sounds in the mid-1980s. It shows three ratings of the Royal New Zealand Naval Volunteer Reserve, in RNZN AWD uniform, who have pulled down the brim (or visor) of their black berets and flattened them so that on their heads they looked like the caps of Kriegsmarine officers. Each has his arm raised in an extravagant Nazi salute.
Another photo I had showed one of them saluting while he held his forefinger and index finger horizontally under his nose, a piss-take of Der Fuhrer’s toothbrush moustache. His face, and the others, are very mock-stern and Teutonic.
Offensive? It comes down to motive. There was no intention to offend or be disrespectful to anyone.
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:23 am
I always like to listen to Spike Jones and Hi sCity slickers singing their famous song “in Der Fuhrer’s Face” – one of my favourites frmo my WWII music collection. By my reading of things if a bunch of kids dressed up as Nazi’s and sang this they would be pilloried by the media and have to apologise.
When der fuehrer says we is de master race
We heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Der Fuehrer’s Face
Not to love der fuehrer is a great disgrace
So we heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Der Fuehrer’s Face
When Herr Goebbels says we own the world and space
We heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Herr Goebbels’ face
When Herr Goering says they’ll never bomb dis place
We heil (pffft) heil (pffft) right in Herr Goering’s face
Are we not the supermen Aryan pure supermen
Ja we are the supermen (super duper supermen)
Is this Nutzi land so good
Would you leave it if you could?
Ja this Nutzi land is good
We would leave it if we could
We bring the world New Order
Heil Hitler’s world New Order
Everyone of foreign race
Will love der fuehrer’s face
When we bring to the world dis order
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
I agree with many of the above — we used to give them six of the best and tell them not to be so stupid again. Then it was over.
Now they face a long drawnout punishment and humiliation. I can’t see the kindness in that.
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
John Minto is right.
Did I really just say that?!
Edit: Brian – I’ve got the Donald Duck version of that song on DVD!