ANZAC parasites
April 21st, 2010 at 11:00 am by David FarrarThe Dom Post reports:
War veterans are angry that Peace Movement Aotearoa is running a white poppy fundraiser just a day before the annual RSA red poppy day street appeal.
Veterans’ Affairs Minister Judith Collins said the white poppy appeal was “incredibly disrespectful to those who served their country”.
“Peace Movement Aotearoa should be ashamed of themselves,” she said. …
Royal New Zealand Returned and Services’ Association chief executive Stephen Clarke said the organisation was concerned at the intrusion. Red poppies had been sold every year since 1922 to raise money for veterans’ welfare services. It raised $1.4 million last year.
It was a clear case of “trading off” on the red poppy brand, Mr Clarke said.
However, PMA co-ordinator Edwina Hughes defended its white poppy appeal and the timing. Her organisation was not competing with the RSA. There was nothing to stop people wearing red and white poppies together.
This is scummy parasitical behaviour.
PMA have every right to raise money. They even have the right to raise money the day before ANZAC Day.
But using a white poppy, the day before ANZAC Day, is designed to con people into thinking that it is somehow linked to the RSA poppy collection. The colour change by itself is not distinguishing enough.
In effect PMA, is stealing money from the RSA, so that rather have the money go on assistance to veterans, their widows and children, it goes to:
One of the first scholarships was awarded to Victoria University student Marianne Bevan to fund a visit to East Timor to study militarisation, violence and gender issues in the country’s recently established police force.
That is fine for those who wish to fund such stuff, but I suspect many people who buy a poppy the day before ANZAC Day will assume it it going to the RSA.
PMA should apologise for their behaviour.
Related posts:
- An 18 year old on ANZAC Day
- Poneke on ANZAC Day
- Nivea and ANZAC Day
- An ANZAC Day post from Gallipoli
April 21st, 2010 at 11:03 am
Yeah that is not cool at all.
Where is the respect?
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:14 am
I don’t think they’re looking to “steal” money from the RSA – I think they’re cynically timing this as a stunt to gain more publicity via the offence it has inevitably caused. Disgusting, shabby and disrespectful behaviour…
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:14 am
The real people that buy poppies for the RSA homes are not going to be fooled by white poppies being sold by young short haired moustachioed individuals (thats the women)
and watery sad males wearing Friends of the Earth T Shirts hanging around these dykes hoping to loose their virginity to someone ,anyone or anything if they are from Christchurch , before they are 53
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:16 am
Absolutely inappropriate timing….. Overwhelmed with anger – need to take a deep breath
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:19 am
Be sure to give these parasitical scumbags an earful if they dare to show themselves on a street near you
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:28 am
I propose a “fund-raising” effort the day before the day before Anzac day.
We can sell T-shirts featuring a picture of a dog crapping out the logo for the PMA.
I dont have time, so I am relying on you, The Internet, to make sure this happens.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:39 am
I’ve also blogged about this today (link posted on the GD thread) and PMA’s actions really anger me. Not only are they likely to dilute donations to the RSA, but they pay enormous disrespect to those who have fought for their countries. Like Put it away, I have urged readers to not only boycott these tossers, but to give them an attitude readjustment as well – they are parasites.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:40 am
“Peace Movement Aotearoa” says it all.
Quasi-communist scumbags who wouldn’t know what peace was if it bit them on the arse.
Simply out for a piece of the PC action.
should be renamed “Piece Movement”.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:48 am
Who are the people behind this pathetic stunt of the Peace Movement Aotearoa?
Sniff sniff, can anyone else smell Minto?
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:55 am
George Patton – I’d also nominate Valerie Morse (the Anzac Day flag-burner), Keith Locke and the Waihopai Three …
I don’t know if Minto would be included; he’s Global Peace and Justice. It’s all a bit Life of Brian-ish; the Judean People’s Front hate the People’s Front for Judea and all that!
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:57 am
Ms Bevan should be careful when she goes to East Timor. She might find she’s closer to violence than she wants to be and might even need the protection of those she clearly despises.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:00 pm
As always with these types its all about them and what they want, screw everyone else.
They never stop to consider that they free to be pricks of this magnitude becose of the efforts of others. Just don’t exercise that freedom in my face this week or I’ll exercise some of my own.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Love the scholarship study topic. I bet it’s the basis of a Victoria University PhD thesis.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Apparently, they are peddling their wares on the streets of Wellington tomorrow, just in case anyone crosses their path …
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:07 pm
The white poppy isn’t new, moving it ti Anzac day-ish is…
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:10 pm
I suspect these fuckwits sit around months before ANZAC day and think of ways they can upset as many of the old diggers as possible.
They are nothing but lowlife, I do hope I run into one or two of them this week…..
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:30 pm
I’m one of those (yes there are some of us) who is both a peacenik and an RSA member. I doubt that anyone is likely to be fooled into thinking the PMA white poppies are part of the RSA poppy day appeal (well, maybe someone who is colourblind might), and I think the language of some here re this is a bit OTT.
But I do agree that PMA are being a bit tacky in their timing with piggybacking their appeal on the RSA appeal.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:32 pm
If you look at it without any emotions, they have done a good job in advertising their campaign, getting their message out there. It is not the first time anyone has done something a little controversial to raise their profile, and since this is a relatively free country you don’t want to have to over regulate when people can and can’t try and raise money for charitable purposes.
And sure, you can let them know how you feel and vote with your $.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Edwina Hughes features prominently here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Waihopai-ploughshares-peace-activists-trial-Starting-8-March-in-Wellington/354520962532
And from the photograph on her FB page, she is the stereotypical leftie peacenik …
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:38 pm
toad said
A bit tacky toad? Bollocks; it is an affront to the men and women of the RSA, and to all those who fought. Still, it’s encouraging that your moral compass is at least quivering a little over this.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Meh…this is exactly the sort of coverage they are angling for.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:43 pm
As for people considering violence, lol!
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:46 pm
White – the colour of surrender. How appropriate for them.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Yeah but when you believe in peace then anything goes. Must be lonely up on the moral high ground. Wankers.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:08 pm
I have a feeling these are the same arseholes who disrupted the dawn service a few years back with air horns and pathetic crybaby wimpering of “Ow you’re hurting me”.
Scum.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Inventory2 (4243) Says:
April 21st, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Some of the supporters of this and the Waipo3 have the picture of the deflated dome on the FB pages.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Another interesting associated campaign – http://lestweforget.org.nz/
.
I’m not against promoting peace, and remembering peacemakers. There has always been more to New Zealand and New Zealanders than ANZAC. But using “Lest We Forget” grates a bit, surely they can come up with their own quotes.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:16 pm
I work in Central Wellington so no doubt will encounter a few of these PC w**kers tomorrow, the answer to there request for a donation will be met with a short & sharpe response. Timing is very disrespectful, but do they care (I really doubt it)
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Let me see… the real poppy day is to raise money for veterans’ welfare. Many of the veterans are very frail, so anything that decreases their welfare is likely to increase the chance of them dying. So if these borscht-eating surrender monkeys are out to take money that should go to the legitmate poppy day…
Vote:Claim of right ?
April 21st, 2010 at 1:18 pm
This one pisses me off somewhat.
One of my grandfathers ended up with a medal on his chest from WW I. And my other grandfather ended up with lead in his chest. There is plenty to criticise about the reasons for WW I and they way it was executed, but to denigrate the many many ordinary Kiwis who chose to risk their lives for what they felt was the right thing to do is piss poor.
Surely they can celebrate their heroes without rubbishing other’s.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Whaaaaaaaat?
Don’t be silly. The red poppies are iconic. We bought them at school every year. They’re always the same. Hell, I’d wonder what was going on if the shape of the plastic stalk changed. No one’s going to think that white poppies (along with buckets labelled Peace Movement Aotearoa or whatever) are fundraising for the RSA.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:49 pm
And of course the irony is that Peace Movement Aotearoa would likely not have the freedom to make their ‘appeal’ were it not for the likes of those that fought to preserve peace during the two great wars – those who we hold in respectful rememberance on ANZAC Day.
That these low lifes chose the day before ANZAC Day, and borrowed the symbolism of the poppy, albeit white, is beyond reprehensible. And I too will give them an “attitude readjustment” should I suffer the misfortune of encountering them in my travels. Words really do fail me over this.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:49 pm
I agree with you there. The path to war may have been easy, but the path through it was anything but.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Another assault on a long standing honourable tradition by leftist,anti west tossers.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:15 pm
It’s poor taste but FOR FUCK’S SAKE PRINCESSES come on, these white poppies aren’t going to detract shit from RSA fundraising.
Point out to me one adult, tax-paying, functional New Zealander who does not know what the red poppies mean. Just one would do.
I don’t know whether or not Peace Movement’s motives in doing this are meant to be a deliberate slap in the face of old soldiers. I wouldn’t assume it is. But certainly that is what most of the big mouths here are assuming it is.
In that respect it seems the way NZ society regards conscientious objectors, peace activists etc has not moved very far at all from the Straw-man reactions seen during WW1. I expected a Right/libertarian blog would have a more sophisticated attitude than labelling them as “parasites” for some reason.
Clearly in a nation of 20 million sheep, even in 2010 you shouldn’t say anything contrary or too subtle for the rest of the flock to understand.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:23 pm
I want to know –
Why does Australia get a holiday on Monday (because ANZAC Day falls on a Sunday) and yet we in NZ don’t?
I’m sure it used to be like this in NZ as well – if the holiday fell on a weekend, and actual holiday was given on the closest weekday.
I bet you’ll find it’s the influence of some business types who complain that the country will lose millions of dollars if we have an ANZAC holiday when it falls on a weekend (once every 7 years? 8?)
Suckfull anyway that we miss out. It’s the same with Labour Day isn’t it?
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:24 pm
^^^ Because ANZAC day is not really about giving you a paid day off work Fletch.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Fletch
It just shows that the Aussie’s respect their war hero’s far more than Kiwis do.
It is shameful that we do not respect them enough to make it an entire day and in the case of Anzac day falling on a weekend, move that day off to a Monday.
Mind you, all the 365 shopping wankers will only piss and moan about that as well.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Labour Day is always on a Monday. Anzac Day is always on 25 April, so if it falls on the weekend then Mon-Fri employees don’t get a public holiday. I don’t know what happens next year when Anzac Day and Easter Monday coincide.
The Peace Movement should move their significant date to November 19. Then they can raise awareness of the principle of Nunuku, a ban on warfare. They could also contemplate what can happen when “the law of Nunuku was not a strategy for survival, to be varied as conditions changed; it was a moral imperative.” when being attacked, killed, and virutally wiped out. They could ask the Moriori all about it, but it’s hard to find any that are left.
Violence is shit, war is shit, but sometimes it’s necessary shit.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:32 pm
ooh nanny bruv respecting the freedom that the ANZACS fought for unless that freedom means you want to shop or run a business. typical.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:33 pm
So getting up early on Sunday to go to the dawn ceremony is an effort that deserves the reward of a day off work on Monday? Exactly how much respect does that kind of mentality show the nation’s war heroes Big Bruv?
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Well, I think NZ SHOULD have a holiday to commemorate our fighting heroes – by that I mean that if it falls on a weekend then it should be put forward to the Monday. A Sunday doesn’t necessarily mean that people aren’t working. It needs to be a separate holiday where people can go to dawn services or whatever.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:08 pm
RRM
It is all about respect, not that I expect you to understand that, I appreciate how you and the rest of you 365 day shoppers get withdrawal symptoms if you cannot get your posh coffee.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:25 pm
This whole thread is downright moronic. But I do look forward to the Kiwiblog post damning Breast Cancer New Zealand’s pink ribbon appeal for being “parasites” on the brand established by the AIDS Foundation, that used to sell red ones (and still does, for all I know) around December 1 to raise funds for the care of HIV-positive people long before the BCNZ got on the scene.
I really hope everyon on this thread will be putting their chequebooks where their mouths are, and showing the RSA full “respect” in the form a nice fat donation.
And before the usual suspect start up, my father served in the 28th (Maori) Battalion, and I’ve been going to dawn parades my entire life — even before they came back into fashion.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Fletch 2:34 pm,
As far as I’m aware both ANZAC and Waitangi Days have always been observed on the 25th April and the 6th of February respectively, and have never been Mondayised. If they fall on the weekend you lose them (essentially). It’s not often we lose them both to the weekend, but we did/do this year. Waitangi was a Saturday and ANZAC is a Sunday (ie there is only one day separating them, except on a leap year when they are separated by two days).
By the way, the last time we lost them both was back in 1999, when they also fell on a Saturday/Sunday combo.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Craig, there is quite a difference between campaigns that are nearly two months apart (Breast Cancer is early October, Aids early December) and campaigns where a new one has been moved so it seems to be aimed at pre-empting the established one:
white poppy fundraiser just a day before the annual RSA red poppy day street appeal.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:37 pm
And Fletch,
Further to my 3:31 pm comment.
Vote:We don’t lose them both (ANZAC and Waitangi Days) again until 2021.
April 21st, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Craig
get real.
It is ambush marketing on the red poppy and the RSA pocket.
If it was even 1 month away, i wouldn’t care.
Vote:It is not.
April 21st, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Bruv – whereas apparently feel you “deserve” a day off work on Monday to enjoy your flash coffee while recuperating from the “effort” of getting up for the dawn ceremony on Sunday??? Pathetic.
If that counts as “respect” in your world I would hate/love to see you ever show disrespect.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Why does it surprise most of you when pondscum behave true to form?
cheers
David Prosser
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:50 pm
I presumed this would be the case, but took a bit of finding any reference to it:
New Zealanders have missed two statutory holidays in 2010: Waitangi Day, which fell on a Saturday, and now Anzac Day.
The same will happen in 2011 when Waitangi Day falls on a Sunday and Anzac Day occurs on Easter Monday.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3604584/Australians-take-extra-holiday-for-Anzac-Day
Apparently the “minister” in Aus is expected to grant an additional public holiday there for Anzac Day next year.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 3:56 pm
The International Day of Peace is on the 21st of September- it would be the perfect day for the poppy appeal. I made this comment today to a white poppy seller, and was explicitly told that the purpose was to link the events. Apparently this will “jam war celebrations”- although the person who said that was a local Otago Unite floozy, and not the poppy seller.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 4:40 pm
These so called Peace activists do not care one bit about world peace, their only goal is to emancipate the defense forces of western countries – all the while autocratic nations around the world continue to buy arms and build their armies.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 4:49 pm
What do you base that assumption on Bevan?
From what I have seen peace activists really do want world peace, an admirable aim but totally idealistic and unrealistic.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 5:05 pm
From what I have seen peace activists really do want world peace, an admirable aim but totally idealistic and unrealistic.
When was the last time you saw any protests regarding: Iran, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Syria, China, etc…? They only target western democracies like NZ, Aus, US and UK.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Kris K:
Heh, it is ironic.
I remember when there was that ANZAC day flag burning. The newspaper quoted some old coot:
It was such a sterling example of cognitive dissonance that I had to make a note of it.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Pete George:
If you’re colour-blind and/or so thick you can’t tell the difference, I’m not sure the timing matters either way.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Repton 5:10 pm,
Indeed.
Of course burning the national flag, etc used to be regarded as an act of treason. And it wasn’t that long ago that treason still attracted the death penalty – long after we removed the death penalty from the statutes for ALL other crimes, by the way.
I think it was only changed back in the 80s prior to successive governments flogging off the national silverware – a case of MP arse preservation, methinks.
I’m with the “old coot”, bring back the death sentence for acts of treason.
Vote:Tame iti, be warned.
April 21st, 2010 at 5:30 pm
These so called Peace activists do not care one bit about world peace, their only goal is to emancipate the defense forces of western countries – all the while autocratic nations around the world continue to buy arms and build their armies.
yes, Bevan. And isn’t it abso-fucking-loutely wonderful that our Government doesn’t treat people who disagree with it as follows: Run them over with tanks, send thugs to burn down their houses and places of business, detain them without charge or trial and torture them, or just put a bullet in the back of their heads and leave the scum to rot in a ditch? You know, unlike those “autocratic nations” you affect such disdain for.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Nice of you all to promote the White Poppies in remembrance of peace and peace activists. It really fits in with what the ANZACS themselves said about Gallipoli and WW1 – Never Again.
There’s a new book out by Australian historians Marylin lake and Henry Reynolds tracing the recent political revision of ANZAC Day to promote militarism in schools, and war-mongering generally (which is the real perversion of ANZAC Day, not the White Poppy). The book is called “What’s wrong with ANZAC”.
You can get a flavour at http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/fight-free-of-anzac-lest-we-forget-other-stories-20090422-afb5.html – an edited speech published in the Age newspaper.
One of the problems in this debate is the histrionic “hero” bullshit put about by American-style patriots expressing sentiments that were NEVER put about by the ANZACS themselves, and are being put about now by non-soldiers with an axe to grind. Get real folks.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 5:55 pm
With the same timing and choice of icon, and with reference to war&peace. I am sure that despite there being a colour difference in the chosen flower. This is a clear case of ‘Passing Off’.
The fundraising, collection mechanism is the same.
So many paid their own passage to put themselves in harms way to fight Tyranny. Just put aside the fact that all War sucks and really doesn’t resolve the underlying problems. So many paid the Ultimate price, or returned physically or mentally damaged.
‘Give Peace a chance’, was always a fabulous mantra. Unfortunately it simply doesn’t work when you are up against dogmatic zealots.
Jaw Jaw, and not War War was perhaps one of Winston’s best rhetorical quotes. If only fighting wasn’t necessary.
Drop your guard here, lose control of your borders. Stop defence spending, and we will lose the rights and freedoms, so many died for within a decade.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Why should we be suprised? Pissing on the graves of those who have fallen in defense of this country is a regular pass-time for left-wing extremists, Green Party activists and similar types. This latest ‘white poppy’ shenanigans is merely an extension of that.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Um Craig – that was kinda my point!
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 6:28 pm
It’s perfectly obvious that Peace Movement Aotearoa has chosen this date to cash in on the profile of ANZAC Day, which they have the right to do. What they do not seem to have is enough common sense to realise that antagonising the majority of New Zealanders to make this point will in no way assit them in achieving their aims.
The irony is that they can not, or will not, see that the freedom they enjoy has been won for them by those most offended by their actions.
And I speak as someone whose parents both lived in Holland during the Occupation, and as the son of a man who was transported to Germany and used as forced labour. I have also served in the military for the past 24 years, and continue to do so. I have medals for peacekeeping, and have done more to bring genuine peace to parts of the world than any of these idiots. Waving a placard, selling white poppies or popping a protective dome is easy. Actually serving and putting your life on the line, THAT’s hard.
Here are the 5 New Zealand Servicemen who lost their lives while bringing peace to East Timor, and the dates they lost their lives.
ATKINS Boyd Reagan Henare Private 14Mar2001 (age 19)
JOHNSTON Dean Russell Private 28Jul2002
MANNING Leonard William Private A997234 24Jul2000*
WALSER Tony Michael W/O Class II 30Nov1999
WHITE William Edward (Billy) Staff Sergeant 25Apr2000
* Denotes death in combat.
And PMA can stick their white poppies where they wont be white anymore.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 6:31 pm
It really fits in with what the ANZACS themselves said about Gallipoli and WW1 – Never Again.
Yet so many went back, (or allowed their sons) to defend the nation three decades later….
One of the problems in this debate is the histrionic “hero” bullshit put about by American-style patriots expressing sentiments that were NEVER put about by the ANZACS themselves, and are being put about now by non-soldiers with an axe to grind. Get real folks.
OH BULL SHIT! The problem with the debate is you and your ilk want to take a giant steaming crap over history and the day we all remember those brave soldiers HEROIC sacrifices, and remember what they did so we can enjoy the freedoms we do today. We dont go to an ANZAC service to glorify war – we go to celebrate the sacrifice. They were all HERO’s and I will respect them as such.
The fact that you cannot turn it into some anti US or anti war circle jerk is what really pisses you poofy so called peaceniks off.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 6:48 pm
IMO, this is merely the beginning of the 21/12/12 End-of-the-Fifth-Age-as-per-the-Mayan-Calendar calamity.
First: our holidays. Tomorrow: Poland.
You wait and see.
“The fact that you cannot turn it into some anti US or anti war circle jerk is what really pisses you poofy so called peaceniks off.”
Fucken-a, Bevan.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Bryla@5:38.
What you people don’t seem to get is that you’re disrespecting their sacrifice, which they did not so they could gain great riches or fame for themselves but merely so that we all could live in peace. Furthermore this wasn’t some isolated group but rather, an entire generation of 20-35 year olds, from all walks of life – the good, the bad and the ugly.
It’s like spitting on the grave of the fireman who died whilst saving your child.
I know you people don’t see it like that and you certainly don’t intend it to be interpreted like that, but the rest of us can’t see any other interpretation and that’s why you’ve generated such a national reaction, not just here but all over the MSM.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Bevan, old sausage, the ANZACS invaded Turkey (a country not threatening our freedoms in ANY way) at the behest of the British Empire, on behalf of Czarist Russia (hardly a democracy).
Get a grip – and stop changing history to glorify war.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:02 pm
ANZAC is very much an Aus and NZ thing, the US don’t have anything to do with it.
Reid, I agree with what you say to Bryla, but Mayan calendar calamity????
Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a New Age belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the first day of the 14th b’ak’tun.
Sandra Noble, executive director of the Mesoamerican research organization FAMSI, considers the portrayal of December 2012 as a doomsday or cosmic-shift event to be “a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in.”
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Bryla, WWI was a major balls-up in many ways and a huge waste of life, but it wasn’t the fault of the ANZAC soldiers who are being remembered. The war is not glorified by this remembrance.
You didn’t say if you had read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori
Following Nunuku was not a great success.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:12 pm
“Get a grip – and stop changing history to glorify war.”
Bryla you really don’t get it, do you.
Who is glorifying war?
The veterans? The politicians? The Defence Forces?
Obviously in an ideal world we’d all like there to be peace all over and everyone to not live on rubbish dumps and to have food every night and a nice home. But we don’t have that, do we and while we slowly move towards it unfortunately a little thing called human nature seems to get in the way of our progress re that direction.
It’s called reality.
If someone came to your house, bashed your door down, raped you, slowly tortured you, finally cut your throat, then did the same to your kids, what, precisely would you do?
Now you’ll probably say “that would never happen, we’ll never be invaded.”
But how the fuck do you know what’s going to happen in the future? 10-20-50 years from now. You don’t. You especially don’t if you insist on looking at potential future reality as if it was some kids playground where everyone would be happy and laugh and sing if only we would be nice to each other [frown and stamp foot].
Fact is, defence is about training, and its about liaison with allies. That’s what people who don’t get it, don’t get. By the time a threat heaves into view over the horizon, it’s already too late, because you can’t constitute a defence alliance sufficient to defend any nation, without decades of past experience.
So that’s your choice. Have a defence force and prevent yourself and your children from being raped, enslaved, tortured. Or don’t.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Yes Pete, I’m trying to position myself for the big ‘cash-in’ but don’t tell anyone.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Bevan, old sausage, the ANZACS invaded Turkey (a country not threatening our freedoms in ANY way) at the behest of the British Empire, on behalf of Czarist Russia (hardly a democracy).
Turkey was allied to a nation we were at war with and directly involved in that war. They were a valid target. Whether the operational planning was adequate is debatable. That is was an immense waste of good men is without question.
Get a grip – and stop changing history to glorify war.
Advice you would be wise to take yourself – I hope you didn’t take History at Uni, looks like you would have failed.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:26 pm
People who buy a white poppy should also get a free white feather.
Vote:Those of you who have studied early 20th century N.Z. history will see the significance in that.
April 21st, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Who is this stupid Bryla wimin?
Should she not be home cooking dinner for her husband?
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:40 pm
“Bevan, old sausage, the ANZACS invaded Turkey (a country not threatening our freedoms in ANY way) at the behest of the British Empire, on behalf of Czarist Russia (hardly a democracy).”
Ha ha! Bryla’s blinkered.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:42 pm
War is hell. Doesn’t mean you get to spread your anti-Western Third World class conflict muck though, you wanker.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 7:55 pm
reid at 7.12 pm “Who is glorifying war? The veterans? The politicians? The Defence Forces?”
Gee Reid, who do you think? Veterans no. Politicians and bureaucrats that create veterans through starting wars? Yup. Not that they’ll ever go and fight in one themselves. The only war that’s ever been fought in NZ was against Maori. The only war that’s ever been fought in Australia was against Aborigine.
When the ANZACS went to war the national character and aspirations of Australia were built on cooperation, mateship, equality of opportunity, and equality between sexes. “Freedom” wasn’t on the list. That was when we were appendages of the British Empire, and our lads died under their command in foreign countries.
Now that we’re appendages of the American Empire (for whom our lads and lasses die in foreign countries, ANZACS are said to have died for “freedom”. Bullshit.
Listen not to the voices of politicians and bureaucrats. Listen to the voices of the ANZACS themselves. War is a disgraceful slaughter. Be not in it. Cobber.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 8:05 pm
And here comes the agenda. Of course, more rather to cower at the hands of a Chinese jackboot, eh? It’s coming.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Oh no, it’s coming. Save me, it’s coming. The Chinese jackboot will get us all!
I know, let’s slaughter a big bunch of brown people! That’ll save us.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 8:50 pm
“Listen to the voices of the ANZACS themselves. War is a disgraceful slaughter. Be not in it. Cobber.”
Yeah, and whether you like it or not it has always been a necessary part of the human race.
Vote:So what’s your solution Bryla? How would you have dealt with the Empire of Japan’s territorial ambitions?.
April 21st, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Bryla are you related to Quisling by chance?
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 8:57 pm
You sound a little bit confused there, Bryan: Chinese Communism is not Islamism, though they have their problems with the lot in Xinjiang. Don’t worry, nurse will be around with lithium soon.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Bryla
Tell me, are you so mind numbing fucking stupid, or, so blinded by hatred of capitalism and by dint of that the USA that you think the west can negotiate with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists?
Oh…and while you think about a reply, if you could point our SAS boys in the general direction of some “brown skinned” terrorists that they might be able to blow off the face of the earth it would be much appreciated.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Bryla, you’ve ignored the central issue, which is your actions are pointless and achieve nothing.
War is a fact of life. It’s human nature. How we’re made. No thinking person likes it or approves of it, but none of us can deny that it happens amongst us all the time. It happens across all cultures, has happened throughout our entire known history, and as we discover more and more history we reach further back and realise it existed even back then.
It’s a symptom of our evolution, of the human condition. No individual or nation can control it because war doesn’t give anyone the choice. It will invade without permission or notice, it will be aggressive, it won’t stop until the target is dead.
Therefore the thinking person really has to conclude that anyone who appears to imagine they can halt, slow or prevent war simply by proclaiming it as bad, is naive in the extreme.
Newsflash Bryla: everyone, including the aggressive ones, already know that. What you are essentially taking on, is the worst of human nature. All the vices, all the lust, anger, violence, aggression, selfishness, envy, pride, avarice in the world, let loose, with no boundaries placed.
Why don’t all you people simply pack up and go to Afghanistan into the Pashtun region and try to sell your white poppies to the Taliban out there? Be sure to explain how it is that you just really really care about evewyone and you just want to help. Just see how they react. Go, and go now.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 9:23 pm
What a fucking moron.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 10:54 pm
That is an elegant post, Reid, beautifully put.
Sadly the morons such as Bryla will not the wit to understand it, nor the wisdom to learn from it.
I intend to give twice as much money as usual to the RSA this year, and look out sellers of white poppies. You will be abused.
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:11 pm
I might be a moron (and defo a wanker) but at least I know the difference between “human nature” and an industrial process. I guess the wing-nut intelligentsia of NZ haven’t noticed the changing nature of warfare, and the deliberate distance being put between the shooter and the victim.
ANZACS got the mud, the blood, the carnage and the immediacy of the slaughter they then chose to condemn. Today we get video operators in Nevada blowing up wedding parties on a colour monitor. This done to seperate human nature (in its compassion and pity) from techno-carnage.
If we can’t bring the industrial process of war under human control, we’re (what’s the expression?) totally rooted.
Oh, and heathcote…could you please, please escalate your abuse to a criminal level. Show your true colours (you banker).
Vote:April 21st, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Finally, I see where the Dominion Post has got a non-ANZAC veteran to say that white poppy day should be “at least six months away from ANZAC Day. A noble sentiment, sort of like having a war for peace. A bit problematic though.
26 or 27 October is exactly six months from the nearest Anzac Day to them. 25 October and 28 October are both only five months and 29 days away.
Poor old bugger.
Vote:April 22nd, 2010 at 12:16 am
Yo Bryla, toying with us kiwibloggers again eh (what’s up? The Cairns blog folks giving you grief so time to vent at us kiwis)? He he, just kidding, it always makes for interesting debates when you appear here!
Ok, just read The Age article you pointed out. But I’m sorry I can’t take the article seriously, the author’s biases come out in full view for all to see, nice of them to bare it all out. Are they preaching to their own likeminded folks or simply trying to manipulate the gullible into their groupthink?
I can see from Marylin Lake’s profile:
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/history/staff/lake.html
that she writes “on subjects ranging from labour history to land settlement, sexuality and citizenship, gender and nationalism, feminism and the politics of anti-racism”. How very nice and clearly very old school baby boomer anti establishment, yawn, yawn, can’t wait for those hippie generation protest types to fade away … their day is passing finally.
On a serious note, we kiwis remember the sacrifices of the young (and old) who went to war and paid the ultimate price. It was/is so unfair, what could have been if those men and women had lived, to raise children, to better their lives of family and community etc. A terrible price to pay. But that’s why we remember them. Not to glorify war. War sucks. But wars won’t go away, despite the ideals of the peace movement. But again we are not here to glorify war, nor glorify the peace movement. We wish to remember those who paid the ultimate price. It’s not about bravery, or heroism, it’s about remembering those who fell, who are not here today, who can’t be with us …..
Vote:April 22nd, 2010 at 12:27 am
And here is the website for people to complain: (they got the ‘con’ part right at least).
http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/
Vote:April 22nd, 2010 at 12:47 am
“The only war that’s ever been fought in Australia was against Aborigine.” What the fuck Bryla, I thought you were Australian ? Your ignorance of your own history is shameful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Australia,_1942%E2%80%9343
Vote:April 22nd, 2010 at 1:55 am
Lolz, there was no war against the aborigines in Australia, in fact it was the opposite. The early settlers invited the locals round for a bit of a piss up and model plane building evening for the kids.
Who knew?
Vote:April 23rd, 2010 at 8:55 am
As a self-confessed leftwing peacenik I find myself disgraced at what these people are doing.
Vote:Deliberately playing on the red poppy appeal for there own ends is truely low-life behaviour.
As a kiwi living in London I will be getting up at 4a.m. and travelling for an hour on the night bus to attend the ceremony on Sunday just as I would of attended if I was back home.
I just don’t get why people think you can’t be pro peace and pay tribute to those that fought and died so we didn’t have to.
@ Bryla: it really isn’t about glorifying war, it’s about paying respect to those that came before.
Personally I think that the concientous objecters were scum, but that’s another debate i think.