House in Extraordinary Urgency
The House has just gone into extraordinary urgency. This type of urgency is so rare, it needs the permission of the Speaker under Standing Order 56(3) . He must be convinced “that the business to be taken justifies it”.
Normal urgency only has the House sit until midnight (and only from the day after it is moved). Extraordinary urgency has the House sit until the law has been passed – even throughout the night.
Normally this is granted only for stuff like excise tax increases, and indeed it is for that – an increase in tobacco excise tax. Normally this is done at budget time, but it doesn’t have to be.
The bill calls for tobacco excise to be increased in three steps over two years. It is proposed that the excise on cigarettes will rise immediately by 10% with a further 10% increase next January and a third increase of 10% in January 2012.
Also proposed is a 24% increase in the excise tax on loose tobacco followed by the same 10% increases in 2011 and 2012 as for cigarettes.
“We know that putting up the price is a powerful tool to reduce smoking. It forces people to cut back, but more importantly it provides a strong incentive for smokers to quit and helps dissuade young people from ever starting to smoke.”
“This represents a huge investment in the future of our country. Helping smokers to quit is a priority of this Government and one of our health targets,”
I guess this helps explain why they so quickly ruled out increasing the alcohol excise tax.
April 28th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
I am not sure why this needs urgency to pass. I cannot see why it cannot be part of regular house business. I cannot see how such an initiative will meet resistance.
April 28th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
“..I guess this helps explain why they so quickly ruled out increasing the alcohol excise tax…”
you are being ‘dry’/ironic there..aren’t you..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
April 28th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
why the urgency .. smoking is a killer so job job .. now alcohol is different (hic) .. just received our $99 doz from the wine-club .. great offer. It was advertised in Skywatch. Does that make me a bad person (philu can abstain).
April 28th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
I guess they wanted to pre-empt a run on stock – the first tranche of tax will probably apply as from tomorrow. Remember the days of Nordy’s black budget etc. etc. when taxes were hiked by late night sittings prior to opening of business the next day.
April 28th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Yes they do extraordinary urgency to minimise people bulk buying in advance.
April 28th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
I wondered that … I guess if they signalled the increase in advance, smokers would go out and stock up hugely, and they want to avoid that.
April 28th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
tobacco tax should go trough the roof..
..alcohol tax should also go through the roof..(for the same reasons/imperatives..)
(and all advertising should be stopped fr both..and plain packaging for both.. will do..)
..and pot should be legalised/taxed..
lets get sensible here..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
April 28th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
“tobacco tax should go trough the roof..
..alcohol tax should also go through the roof..(for the same reasons/imperatives..)
(and all advertising should be stopped fr both..and plain packaging for both.. will do..)
..and pot should be legalised/taxed..
lets get sensible here..!”
All to finance you whore, you fucking leech
April 28th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Ah, this is the Government that campaigned against “nanny state”!
The Greens will support it, but it is extraordinary hypocrisy from National, who seem to support the “freedom” to use energy inefficient light bulbs and opposed a tax to fund research to reduce agricultural methane emissions, but now decide to tax the shit out of anyone who smokes tobacco.
Apparently a 30g packet will go from $21 to $24. Where’s bruv, he keeps referring to Key as “Neville”. I think “Arnold” might be a better name now. Not that I am old enough to recall the infamous Nordmeyer Budget, but it destroyed the Second Labour Government.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Increase in Tobacco will only cause more crime. Can’t afford to pay, then steal. Just think where the high percentage of smokers are, an increase will cause problems.
I don’t smoke so the tax can go up all they like, but I do not want any more violence than there is now.
Bulk buying in advance? yeah, but only those who know and can afford a few cartons.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
Outstanding.
Keep those regressive taxes coming.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
Shit, I hit 1000. Where is my chocolate fish?
April 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
DPF. This morning you were bleating about how long it would take to cancel the ETS which Smith is going to hang on to until death do the electorate and the National party part.
This makes a mockery of everything you said (not your fault) but really can you support such a bankrupt regime as this lot are turning out to be.
What next at budget time.
Well all owners of property are going to be lined up and bankrupted at dawn.
What a cowardly undemocratic bunch of non nondescript
lousy bastards they really are.
Govt sticks to guns over ETS
Wednesday, 28, Apr, 2010 4:25PM
The New Zealand Government will continue with its plans for an Emissions Trading Scheme, despite other countries softening their stance.
Political and industry pressure is being put on the Government, to change the implementation of its ETS, after Australia’s carbon reduction scheme has been delayed by three years.
ACT is continuing to demand we follow Australia’s lead, but Climate Change Minister Nick Smith believes the changes made to New Zealand’s scheme last year were in the country’s best interests.
“I would much rather be in the position New Zealand has, of a settled ETS legislation, than the uncertainty that exists in either Australia or the United States in this important area of public policy.”
April 28th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
DPF said: Yes they do extraordinary urgency to minimise people bulk buying in advance.
Doesn’t work though, because the law doesn’t take effect until tomorrow. Someone I know (whose politics I do not support) is onto it has just gone out and bought $15K worth of tobacco. Will make a tidy little profit on that.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
As much as I’d applaud this as a tax on “not me”, even the hard core healthists admit that collected tobacco excise taxes massively exceed the costs on the health care system. See here.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
FUCKING BASTARDS ALL OF THEM!!!!
I think I’ll give up smoking and starting smoking pot again!!!
TAX FUCKING FREE
April 28th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
FFS what do they take us for? This clearly has nothing to do with health, and everything to do with a quick spreadsheet calculation showing an instant lift in tax revenue. Forget the spin and call things for what they are. Zero respect National.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Well considering the fact that the government already collects enough tax to pay for the associated health costs I see this as nothing else but a huge attack on my freedom.
I wonder what I should do to cover these costs? I am seasonal worker, on my own personal morals I’ve not touched the dole since i was a teenager and grew out of that stage bla bla. But I feel things are about to change, it is my perception that I am being blatantly ripped off with this extra tax should it pass. If it does pass I am going to seriously consider getting the calculator out and seeing how many weeks I should go on the dole per year to recovering my extra expenses/stolen money. Being a seasonal worker I can grab some dole any time I like once the seasons of X is over and I wait for the next seasonal job and I fucking don’t.
The costs are covered, either tobacco is legal or illegal, this adding tax’s to deter/revenue collect is totally wrong.
I will think long and hard about this! It wont be a decision that’s come to easily should I go ahead, but it seems at this point as if I would be perfectly just in doing so???
April 28th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
I smell a rat here.
When people buy smokes now they are paying a tax. If they stock pile now then they are just paying tax in advance. There is no reason to rush it through now under urgency.
However the government has taken a bit of flak for not rescinding the ETS. Could this be a tax grap from the smokers to cover the loss of the tax taken from the ETS if JK was to cancel our ETS???
National has been at pains to keep the ETS in place. Why? Because it is a tax windfall for the government. They have already spent the income the government was expecting. To cancel the ETS they need to make a tax grap from somewhere else.
This is it
April 28th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
I have no particular problem with taxing tobacco – so long as we continue to have a state funded health system then we need some way to appropriately reflect the costs that some people impose through their choices. Personally, I’d rather an insurance-based system, under which those who smoked would just pay more for their health insurance. Given we don’t have that, it makes some sense to load the cost into the tobacco cost as a tax.
Having said that, the same logic would also lead us to:
– unhealthy food taxes. The argument I guess is that an “unhealthy” food doesn’t cause problem in moderation, where there is no safe amount of tobacco
– risky lifestyle taxes – people who do extreme sports, people who sit around at home too much
Leaving all that aside, there is an efficiency curve for tobacco taxes. Actually, there are two efficiency curves. One is about maximising cost recovery (of health care) and minimising consumption. Once you reach a point where people are buying or growing black market tobacco, you’ve gone too far. The other is the political efficiency. Unfortunately, that curve seems to have a constantly increasing slope – you can always provide the illusion of doing something about smoking by increasing excise on tobacco.
I wonder why the government doesn’t remove the duty free threshold for smokes? If they’re a huge health crime, why do we let them in duty free?
April 28th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
@menace – did your mum ever tell you that two wrongs don’t make a right? Dipping into an ‘entitlement’ because you’re pissed off is really just punishing taxpayers – your next door neighbours for example.
@Lipo – interesting thought
April 28th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Investment? Sorry, that’s politics-speak for “expenditure we don’t want to call expenditure”. Yet Nationa’s spin goes beyond even this doublespeak.
If it was an investment in helping people stop smoking then there’d be a parallel announcement of free (or heavily subsidised) pathches, gum, hypnosis and whatever else works as of tomorrow.
What do they take us for, indeed.
Rudd is on the way out simply because he can’t stop the bullshit gushing every time he opens his trap. If there’s any justice in the world, Key is on much the same path.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Since they are in Extra-Ordinary urgency how about they kick the ETS to touch while they are at it.
I note how parliament is never put into extra-ordinary urgency to give tax cuts, though with this government that will never be the case.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
The government are no better than drug dealers when it comes to upping the tax on tobbacco – they know that only a very small majority will give up as a result of the increase, most people will just eat the extra 50c – $1 per pack. This is not about encouraging people to stop smoking, its just another tax grab.
I wonder what results an OIA into tax generated off the sale of Tobbacco would yield. Then possibly another for the yearly figures of health expenditure in relation to smoking related illnesses.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
I don’t get it…..
Smoking has pretty much been stigmatized now in society. Do we really have a problem with it? Even kids know it’s bad and I think you would have been looked down upon if you did it. Isn’t binge drinking by young people more a problem?
April 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Rudd is on the way out simply because he can’t stop the bullshit gushing every time he opens his trap. If there’s any justice in the world, Key is on much the same path.
The only hope is that someone like Power rolls Key – then kicks all of the soft cocks in National as far out of the party as possible. Either that, or next term we have to put up with Goff – makes me feel all sick inside.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Krazikiwi, health costs are covered by the current tax levels, i would only recuperate the extra tax and nothing more.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
In light of this, what’s their reason for not raising the tax on alcohol? Doesn’t it have enough negative impacts?
April 28th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
This is just Calvinism writ secular – the hypocritical rich denying the poor their simple pleasures.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Tariana Turia wins again.
I’d love to see those secret photos of John Key she has got hold of. They must be dynamite!
April 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
tax tax tax…fags to go up and they mention excise tax on piss maybe up by an average 10%…bastards..thieving scum bastards the whole lot of ‘em..
April 28th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
What a hoot National are. Yesterday we had a huge raid on legitimate businesses selling legitimate products, because a few of their customers may use the products to grow dope.
We have the alcohol report recommending tax increases based on harm minimisation where most of the addiction experts put alcohol in to the same class as a Class B drug (morphine, ampetamine, ecstasy, etc) but Key rukles that out instantly. Yet all the evidence shows alcohol to be far more harmful than dope, and tobacco harmful in the extreme but it doesn’t even make it to the drug schedule.
Ban tobacco, make alcoholprescription only (ecept for Barossa Valley shiraz) and make dope available in dairies.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
National – the tax cut party.
PML
(As long as they don’t tax my bloody beer… )
April 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
It would be like a mini annual compulsory kiwi saver.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
“When people buy smokes now they are paying a tax. If they stock pile now then they are just paying tax in advance. There is no reason to rush it through now under urgency.”
Because the marginal tax is more once tax has risen? I don’t see that it would make that much difference if people stockpiled, what with limited resources to do so and all that. I assume its more so they can get it through as quickly as possible – thus avoiding significant publicity over an extended period of time?
“Smoking has pretty much been stigmatized now in society. … Isn’t binge drinking by young people more a problem?”
Probably not from a numbers perspective (but I’m not sure about this), and it’s not just a young person’s problem, but yes, something probably does need to be done about it. However, as you’ve noted smoking has been stigmatised implying it’s the cultural shift that’s made the difference, not the taxes, etc. What needs to happen with drinking is a cultural shift, probably on two fronts: binge drinking needs to be stigmatised and why so many people need the escape of getting blitzed/fucked up on drugs/alcohol needs to be considered.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
I must be odd for the lefties who hang about here. The people they believe to be filthy right-wing acolytes are resoundingly criticising a ‘right’ government. The pain felt by these lefties, as they agree with we filthy ones must be almost too hard for them bear. Quick! Invent a benefit.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
FFS. Piss off back to NY Key.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Meh stockpiled up on ciggies today. . Governments need to be careful. The more restrictions they put on tobacco the more the illegal industry will increase. And forget what you see with Marijuana, Cocaine or any other illegal drug. In the next 10-15 years as laws around tobacco become increasingly restrictive you will watch the illegal selling of tobacco increase ten-fold or more. Nothing beats addiction of tobacco after all.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
lol
books looking a bit bare in the current global climate no doubt.
booze will be next once the dust settles and palmer the old prunes leaves the picture.
April 28th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Ooohhhh LRO,
Have you been at whore’s cache?
Speelchika man 5 mistakes
April 28th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
I think you’ve missed the point though, Fletch. This tax isn’t about solving any problems. It’s a blatant grab for revenue. Because of the social stigma against smoking it’s a relatively acceptable tax to the majority of society so there won’t be much fuss about it, and as I noted above the speed at which it’s being pushed through will diminish the reaction. I’d be much happier if they just banned smoking in the majority of public areas, much like they do with drinking, culled the majority of the taxation and refused treatment to all smokers in the public health system who have problems linked to smoking. Treatment would get partial subsidisation under the public health system the further away from having given up smoking one gets. Plus allowed smoking houses as establishments, but applied the same sanctions to those who worked in them. Won’t happen because it’s an unrealistic idea, but I’d support it. If there is to be a public health system.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Yadda yadda yadda.
You will notice there is no excise increase on cigars. (well none that I have seen.)
Only us rich pricks smoke cigars.
Laaarrrf my arse off!!!!!!!
All you dumb arse beneficiaries, public servants and WFF rorters will have to get off your own fat arses and become rich pricks so that you can afford to buy a decent smoke.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Another day, another broken election promise from the gutless wanker we call our PM.
Forget all the bullshit about smoking being a killer, we all know that (apart from Phool) this is only about raising taxes, this from the man who promised “a series of ongoing tax cuts”.
Unless I see a change in Key over the next 18 months I think I will seriously think about voting for Labour, being bent over and fucked by the party you hate is slightly more acceptable than being bent over and fucked by the party you worked to get elected and the party that is supposed to be about less tax and less government.
At least with Labour I will know what I am getting, my dislike of our current PM has now reached the same level of dislike I held for his predecessor.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
BB = Ren’n'Stimpy.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
what ‘industry ‘did you get rich-pricked in..adolf..?
a productive-one..?
or a leech-one..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
April 28th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
@PaulL: Note that collected tobacco excise taxes exceed greatly the health costs associated with smoking. By lots and lots. And even the anti-tobacco lobby agrees.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
And I thought we’d got rid of fucking Liarbore!
Bye bye National …. no vote from me.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
You guys have missed the pint. This is not about a tax grab, that is an unintended consequence.
\This is all about the Maori Party and Hoone and Pitsa and Turiana. They campaigned on this and this is a quid pro quo from Key for their support in slapping down ACT the other night.
The NZ National Maori Paty and Its close affiliates own Parliament and now make the rules. Add it up for heavens sake. The Maori’s are in control of NZ. More of them in Parliament than any other group.
They will determine the results from hence forward.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Fuck and to think I use to think the suckholes could crawl under a snake’s belly. So much for free and open debate, so much for democracy. I don’t give a fat rats prick about smoking but if the slimy bastards can do this in a few hours why the fuck should we have any respect or trust in them, ever. We have released the Gennie from the bottle and the Gennie is not going to grant us three wishes, we have now become the enslaved.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
“I guess this helps explain why they so quickly ruled out increasing the alcohol excise tax” And also why is no excise duty being imposed on unhealthy food?
The tax increase is outrageous. It is fair to tax smokers to pay the health costs they incure, but smokers should not be singled out as they currently are with there being an excise on tobacco and none on fast foods. The tax increase only makes this injustice worse.
One can not help and wonder if the real reason for the failure to push alcohol taxes up 50% and introduce an excise tax on fast food is because smokers are not only a small minority on the population but disproportionately low income people who don’t vote National.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
I’ll bet 10 bucks to a pinch of possum poo that the dairy owners are shitting themselves about now. The gangs of the bros will be looking at how they can get fags in by the container load. Unfreakingbelievable that we have ended up with a national socialist party. If need be I will vote for Winnie. It won’t be National.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
What a pile of self absorbed bullshit. Extraodinary urgency. Wankety wank. Jack boots yesterday, tax boots tomorrow. This is no longer just worryingly amusing, it’s downright treacherous. Enough is enough.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
in germany i can buy a 50 gram for five bucks, but john boy will make me grow me own. urgent business ffs. blow smoke in the blue pc creeps.what a croc of crap.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
“..We have released the Gennie from the bottle and the Gennie is not…”
heh..!
you are really ‘giving’ today/night..aren’t you..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
April 28th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
viking has got a part of it.
Me???/ I don’t give a fuck, put em up to $100 I will still buy them along with my lovely cigars.
Wanna smoke???? well get off your fat arse and make enough doola to pay for em!
Nats vote? nah not again.
Any party??? not at this stage.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Nutional should go up in smoke. F the pricks make me vomit!
April 28th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Pity that there isn’t a narrow gauge, decrepit, smoke belching, useless, country-wide train set to buy anymore.
There must be something else that money can be squandered on?
Aha, how about building some canals?
April 28th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Smoke the hive.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Its now a given that blood alcohol will go down to 0.5
By the way, what’s the intended consequences of this. Longer lived Maori, for they are the people the Maori Party represent therefore and whom the consider need the most motivation.more Maori votes.
They’re not stupid.
Higher priced cannabis coming; more demand.
Home grown tobaccy.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Viking has it spot on @7:16pm, this is another sop to the apartheid party and their racist MP John Harawira.
I wonder how much of the extra income has been quietly promised to help fund the whanau ora programme?
April 28th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
John Boy Wee puts smokes up so he can hand more money to the magpie Maoris who always got the hands out!!
April 28th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
“While there are concerns that a tax increase will hit low income earners, and in particular Maori and Pacific smokers hardest, after consulting with our members and reviewing the evidence we believe that short-term hardships are far outweighed by long-term health gains from expected reduced smoking.”
No doubt they will all be given extra benefit money to help them through this crisis.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
This could be considered ‘political suicide’…
If I was National, I wouldn’t rely on the support of kiwi smokers any time soon.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
National getting rid of the ETS then?
Or is it passing into Law a Bill preventing Bill English passing off diverted spending as cuts.
$240 million a week in Government borrowing people and you don’t even have the decent weather of Greece.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
What does that make it now? 75 -80 percent excise tax as a percentage of retail?
April 28th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Amid all the anger you have to smile at Toad pretending to be uneasy about the Greens voting for a tax increase, according to the melons raising taxes is the answer to all of our problems.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
The term “urgency” should be dropped. It should be regarded as routine for the House to sit extended hours from time to time. Indeed it needs to so as to get its business done. The term should be changed to “Extended sitting hours”. The fact of the matter by the time legislation gets to the House it has been well picked over by the select committee process indeed such legislation chould be processed under an extended sitting hours motion WITHOUT debate – but with a vote if leave is denied. Legislation that does not go to select committee can be handled differently – maybe a debatable motion. Legislation for “extraordinary” urgency – now renamed “urgency” can remain as it.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
tax grab!
NZ problems are not going to be solved by more tax.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Well, I’m clearly in the minority here, but I am fully supportive of the legislation being passed tonight.
My mother was a 40+/day smoker. I cannot remember her not smoking. Unsurprisingly, she died of smoking-related lung disease a few years ago. Because of her smoking, I made a decision early in life NEVER to smoke, and I’ve never regretted it. I still have respiratory problems, due, I’m sure, to growing up in a smoke-filled house. When mum moved to a rest home we took stuff from her home. Seven years on, some of it still reeks of tobacco smoke; no end of cleaning has helped.
If taxing tobacco off the market is what it takes to reduce smoking, and to reduce the burden on the health sector, then let’s do it. It’s the ultimate in user-pays I guess. If this legislation causes people to give up smoking, so much the better. For some, it might just be the spur they need. A friend recently quit; he’s been smokefree for just over a month, and reckons he’s saved over $200. He feels much better too, and all power to him!
Congratulations to the MP’s from all parties who are supporting this Bill.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Yes, I2, but it’s like me coshing you on the head (after gaining entry to your house sincerely promising I’d never do any such thing), stealing your wallet and then telling you I only did it because you were clearly getting a bad back from sitting on all that money.
You may indeed receive improved health and less chiropractic bills as a side effect.
But I’d still be a lying scumbag thief.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Inventory2 (4268) Says:
If taxing tobacco off the market is what it takes to reduce smoking, and to reduce the burden on the health sector, then let’s do it.
Now we know why we have ‘Nanny State’ …. people want it.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
IV2,
Good stuff. I stopped for a reason (surgery and bone fusion) I would still be smoking 25 daily without that reason.
Nothing worse than a reformed smoker .. right
The smoke is wonderful, smells good, tastes good and that is why it addicts.
Geeze I hate to advertise, but “Champix” makes the smoke taste like dead rotten fish.
18 months and the smell of others smoking does not bother me, and saves money, woohooo, now I buy better wine
April 28th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Inventory2 / Steve
Your clearly in the minority..
The problem is National pandering to Maori… not so much the nanny state bill.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
RKBee
Not so, we were promised ongoing tax cuts and an end to the nanny state, we have received neither.
The pandering to Maori, while just as despicable, was not something that the National Socialists campaigned on.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
I2 don’t be so naive. It will only force people to grow their own or buy it for non taxable sources, dealers gangs? What’s the next step…………oh even I know that one, criminalise it. Shit you will have whoar.com posting thousands of items promoting the benefits of tobacco. This may stop a few smoking but if the government believe they can boost the piggy bank with increased taxation they’re dreaming. It will only give birth to a black market and a increased interest in the science of horticulture.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
More store burglaries.. More work for MR Plod. More money for the gangs. Shit this would be more lucrative then cannabis and fags are not illegal.
Even the Chinese will be stuffing chair legs full of fags rather then pseudo or ecstasy.
What a cockup.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
big bruv/RK Bee – on this issue (just this issue mind!), I don’t have a problem with National allowing Turia to advance this legislation. This may have been part of the confidence and supply agreement between the MP and the Nats.
Smoking is a huge Maori health issue. I worked with a large number of Maori at my last job, and almost without exception they smoked; and mainly rollies too. I commend Turia for challenging Maori to quit, even if she’s going a roundabout way in doing it.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
BB…So it’s a National Socialist government pandering to Maori … and broken promises.. I agree…. but you and I both know the real problem is.. and always will be the voters..
April 28th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Look there’s more. FFS what will they try next.
Cigarettes to be sold in plain packets from 2012
CIGARETTES will be sold in plain packages from January 2012 as Kevin Rudd introduces the world’s most draconian anti-smoking laws in a move likely to spark a legal challenge from big multi-national tobacco companies.
The new laws will prohibit the use of tobacco industry logos, colours, brand imagery or promotional text of tobacco product packaging.
Brand names and product names will have to be displayed in a standard colour, font style and position under the new laws.
The government is planning the measure to cut the attractiveness of the packaging to young people to further cut smoking rates.
* Sid Maher
* From: The Australian
* April 28, 2010 6:41PM
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/cigarettes-to-be-sold-in-plain-packets-from-2012/story-e6frgczf-1225859582341
April 28th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
@ side show bob – surprisingly, much as I detest smoking, I think banning it would be a step too far. If people want to kill themselves, knowing the risks and the negative health outcomes, let them. At least they’re paying for it through excise duty. As I said earlier, it’s the ultimate in user-pays!
April 28th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Inventory2
As you said yourself.. your clearly in the minority..
April 28th, 2010 at 8:58 pm
This isn’t National’s idea it’s the Maori Party behind this.
Their constituency are the main group who’ll be most affected by a price rise, most other demographic groups who smoke won’t be so much.
John Key’s political naivity is showing however because from the way it’s been gone about – dead of night and all that – just exactly who does he think is going to be taking the lion’s share of the blame here?
The irony is, Maori will just move to cheaper alternatives, which will be worse for them. Turia’s initiative won’t make a blind bit of difference to the stats, either in the short or the long term. Meanwhile the Nats have just painted on themselves a giant bullseye.
D’oh.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
With the price of smokes going up the switched on gardener will make a good profit from selling lights from people now growing indoor tobacco…
April 28th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Viking2 @ 8:52 pm
… what will they try next.
Baning Free Thinking..
April 28th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Oh no, oh Nooooo. cigarettes in brown paper bags, and they will still pay for those who don’t smoke. The tax on tobacco pays well over their needs in health (they die early) A new form of tax is needed huh???
ETS
ETS
ETS
April 28th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
RKBee,
It is you are, not your
10 years in standard 2
April 28th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
I can see a new underground political party starting up from all this…. their supporters being all those that have had their few vices focused underground by todays nanny state laws.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
I’m beginning to think the govt should legalise pot and start taxing that too.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
nana thy name is hone key
April 28th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
It’s pretty simple. National need money, hence maintaining the ETS and taxing tobacco harder. Easy targets, and both for the benefit of the people obviously!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
FFS Key and co haven’t got the balls to do what is required, slash the public service and slash welfare in that order. Gutless bastards. No – expect more bullshit and smoke and mirrors as they “help” us become model people. As in the USA, it has become irrelevant who heads the country. We have a machine that needs a lot of money to maintain and we are the suckers getting bent over and fucked up the arse. I resign.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
what kaya said. me i’m over the apologises for these fwits. i didn’t vote for one dictatorship to be replaced by another. when are these fwits gonna repeal the local govt act n the rma. lol
labour in another colour?????????????? yep
April 28th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
I have just done the numbers on how much more this will cost me per annum. Approx $300. As a locum pharmacist i get to choose when i work. I will now be working one less week a year. The tax i pay on a weeks work about $450, so the treasury lose. I may lose my net pay for that week but i don’t need it so i won’t miss it. And those of you that think a pharmacist shouldn’t smoke, well it’s the only thing that stops me from wanting to choke the fuck out of ignorant c**ts that blame me personally for everything that Pharmac does. This is all a bit of a academic exercise really coz i leave this fucked up country on 1 July and I am never coming back.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
slash the public service and slash welfare in
Yes Yes !!! Thats why we voted Hone K in !!! To slash the dole…to slash the DPB !!!…to slash the scum in Wellington !! But you have failed us Hone K ! You have spoken with forked tongue ! You can fuck right off !!! You and the Nats are toast 2011.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
If the Maori party were serious about saving Maori lives, then they need to try exercising their rights to have an indigenous health policy that only applies to Maori:
Ban smoking for those on the Maori Electoral Roll.
It’s a great approach – doesn’t add taxes, it helps Maori the way the socialist Maori Party want to help Maori (because they know best), and we’ll soon see how many Maori are on the electoral roll because it’s important to them
April 28th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Zen are you out of your mind. Nothing Maori do is thier fault, it’s the fault of the white man and that Chinese man, SumCunt. It is never, I repeat never, thier fault.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Those wanting to grow their own tobacco might be interested to read this
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3634270/Police-to-monitor-hydroponics-sales
specifically,
Yes I know it only applies to the “switched on gardener” stores at present. But how soon to all stores?
Easier to get a gun license?
April 28th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
Cheeky bloody darkies, putting the price of my pipe tobacco up, fuck all of us cultured types left as it is.
But hey, just look at the opportunities to park a couple of Chinese flagged ships twelve miles offshore selling duty free fags, tobacco, and booze.
No,no, not those type of fags you hopeful buggers
April 28th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
When are we ever going to get a political party who understands that you need to incentivise people to create and produce, not tax them into oblivion? You kill motivation that way. I know I lost mine under Labour and expected to get it back with National. Hahahahahahahahahah!!!! What a pathetic joke. Mission in life, do the least required to pay the bills and do no more. I don’t even smoke but this is bullshit.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
Hey Gerrit, pharmacies have been doing this shit for a long time. I bet the mark up on hydroponics is a hell of a lot better than the mark up on a packet of sudafed.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
MMP, under Labour we had an unproductive bludging bunch calling the shots, under National we have ditto. Tail wagging the dog.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Again.. another Labour missed opportunity to have a real point of difference from National.
When will Goff stop agreeing with Key’s… and start being the opposition.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
RKBee, because I suspect they are both still taking orders from a certain individual in NY.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
Since he first entered politics Key has been riding on an extraordinary circumstantial wave. The reason he’s risen so fast is not because he’s brilliant but because he’s lucky and while he has lots of impressive skills, he’s not superman and he’s not infallible and unfortunately whatever his sycophantic National-band want to think, he’s not, I repeat, brilliant.
Therefore he’s making fairly significant and far-reaching mis-calculations but it would appear that none of his more seasoned and experienced political veterans have been able to prevent him.
I’ve personally never had much respect for McCully for I’ve always regarded him as a clumsy bungler since every operation I’ve ever seen him direct has failed miserably. I can’t help thinking that Key-the-lucky has not been getting the advice he needs from his lieutenants because the foreshore, the UN declaration, the ETS, this doomed anti-smoking initiative are all leading to one end. The end of his ability to get a third term.
Recall Hulun who did barely a thing in her first term. Personally I could almost feel the controversies being physically held in check merely through force of will despite the pressure from her caucus to do all sorts of mad things. But in the first term all she did was absolutely nothing but placate mildly her strongest supporters – the unions. It was in her second term she became daring and by the end of that she’d lost control and her third term was a complete cock-up.
Key has none of this understanding and has let his ideas loose on what he sees as a political market. It is, but the problem is John, it’s not like currency trading, not in any way, my friend. And he hasn’t learned that yet.
So I’m expecting the polls to start tanking and then we’ll see whether Key really understands or whether he really is what some already say: an empty wunderkind who at the end of the day, achieved very little.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Smokers should never be truely encouraged to stop. It is Darwinism at its best. May they drop dead before 65 and save me from paying their pension.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
I see Viking 2 has already noted it but there’s a strong rumour out of Canberra tonight that the move to plain packaging will occur within days rather than in 2012 as that earlier report suggested.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
(cont’d from previous) …which would be a real fucking shame because
(a) we’re talking about all of our real lives here boys and girls and
(b) there is so so much to be done, esp after almost a decade of Hulunism
April 28th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Muzza M (28) Says:
April 28th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
This is all a bit of a academic exercise really coz i leave this fucked up country on 1 July and I am never coming back.
Don’t let the door slam you on the arse as you leave.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
..maybe you could tag along with him LRO…you wont be missed asswipe
April 28th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Thanks LRO, I will avoid doors as i pick up my carton of duty free smokes.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
ah, go fuck an ape, you big drop kick
April 28th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
The main reason I reckon the Nat’s numbers are holding up is for no other reason than nobody wants Labour back so bloody soon.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
wow a whole carton. Howlong will that last? The rest of your life, I hope.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
Key’s is brilliant … when the polls show the voters have had enough of him pandering to Maori…. he will merely change tact and start pandering to Act… and so on. He’s got us Phucked..
April 28th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
LRO “ah, go fuck an ape, you big drop kick”
Not very nice boyo. The carton will last me about a week. Where I am going smokes cost $1.20 a pack, so maybe I’ll give the carton a miss. Why are you so pissed off that I am leaving, you don’t even know me. Is it my contribution to the consolidated fund that you are worried about?
April 28th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
“ah, go fuck an ape”
You are pure filth billy borker scum.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
d4, crawl back under your bridge you twisted, gnarled and angry little impotent troll. Get thee back to dark ages and worship your evil creep Jeshua and his minions from hell. But keep a close grip on the rock by the cave, there is a greater power than you on its way to exact revenge for the evil you have done and are yet to do.
It will take more than the blood of Alex to wash you free from your sin.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
As I said fugley, you are pure filth. You make most sick.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
and that from the guy that tells people to commit bestiality
April 28th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Hearing voices again, Petey? Time for another visit to the clinic, methinks. Keep taking your meds, they will work in the end.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
How come David Farrar lets you post under LRO when we know by your stench that you are billy borker fugley cake.? No doubt your keyboard is crawling with maggots.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Muzza M… dad4justice…LeftRightOut
Pull your heads in… sort it out.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
And don’t forget, I’m also Stan, sonic, tonic, satan, santa, kristie, greenfly, dragonfly, donkey dick, and everyone else who gives you night tremors.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
RKBee, I’d love to, but daddio is just such fun.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
LRO, I think I know a lot more about medicine than you do so you should stop giving unqualified advice. In my professional opinion it is you that needs either medical or psychological assistance. So far tonight you have been abusive, derogatory, offensive, and blasphemous. I sincerely hope for your sake that you are just some young troll having a bit of fun, if I am wrong, please seek appropriate help.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
But back to the topic, just what has Blinglish got up his sleeve in the budget that he needed to get this one out of the in advance. It’s not that long to budget day. Or have the Nactionals stuffed the treasury so bad that they are desperate for cash for this week’s payroll?
How are we going on closing the wages gap again?
April 28th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
abusive, derogatory, offensive, and blasphemous
Yep, about par for the course for me, and none of these things are illegal, as yet. But no doubt NannyKey will see to that soon enough too.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
What a cock you are LRO!
Just another loudmouth peabrained idiot lefty with anonymity and a keyboard… yawn
April 28th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
Oh look, Nickb wants a pissing contest. My cocks bigger than yours and so on.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
“But back to the topic, just what has Blinglish got up his sleeve in the budget that he needed to get this one out of the in advance. It’s not that long to budget day.”
On this sentence I agree with you, well done.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:54 pm
You seem grumpier than usual LRO, crack open some chemical happiness and relax.
mmmmmm…… beer
back soon.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
I would Shunda, but the cops got to Linwood SOG before me and my order “was lost”.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:57 pm
SB what brand do you partake of?
April 28th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
I was planning on becoming a 20 a day man tomorrow, but with the tax increases on smokes I’ll just channel my funds in to drinking more.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
probably better for you 2boyz
April 28th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
2boyz? 3 Boys make a great Pils and a not so bad wheat beer.
But ya canna beat a Coopers Pale Ale or Vintage Ale.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
“SB what brand do you partake of?”
Just this minute returned from fridge and “exported” myself!
April 28th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
Export, the beer for people who like the taste of tap water.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Export, the beer for people who like the taste of tap water.
so they say, still, feeling happier already!
April 28th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
I’m a Monteiths chap, but will spring for one or two scrummy Belgium drops when the opportunity presents itself
@LRO – Yup, the 3 Boys are yummy too. I like their Porter
April 28th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Yes Monteiths is good, they make a good cider too.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Eyve nivvir bin acyydr man m’self Shunda. Eachs t’thir oown ey spose. Aye
April 28th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
LRO you just can’t help yourself can you. SB can drink what ever brand he prefers. He doesn’t deserve your pathetic criticism.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:14 pm
Muzza, go stick your head up a dead bear’s donga.
Learn to tell the difference between criticising the beer and the drinker. You truly are the biggest moron here tonight (at least now d4j’s gone back under his bridge).
Hurry up and fuck off OS, you’ll only raise the national IQ.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
“Eyve nivvir bin acyydr man m’self Shunda. Eachs t’thir oown ey spose. Aye”
Recent convert to the cider, my wife got me on to it (women love the stuff, even the bad over sweetened crap) hopefully I still count as a Kiwi bloke.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
fair enough fuckwit, good night. You really should sort out this fixation you have with performing deviant acts on animals dead or alive.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
and don’t forget to pick up your methadone tomorrow.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:56 pm
I love it, hopefully we can get the smokers to pay for everything. Some new air-force jets would be nice.
April 29th, 2010 at 12:26 am
What a pack of thieving assholes, if i say anymore i might have the plod at the door.
April 29th, 2010 at 12:47 am
I never wanted to say this BUT
FUCK NEW ZEALAND. and i was born here!
April 29th, 2010 at 12:58 am
I think that’s the campaign slogan John Key’s National will use for the 2011 election menace.
April 29th, 2010 at 7:16 am
A tax on poor addicts. A group who already over contribute for their health and diminished welfare. I’m assuming some sort of bizarre sop to the Maori Party so I await with eagerness the other shoe to fall (special $200m spending fund anyone?)
April 29th, 2010 at 8:16 am
Think of it as a stupidity tax, guys. Thanks for contributing.
April 29th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Final proof of how morally bankrupt the National Party is, caving to the racist Maori Party to keep itself in power.
So much for lowering taxes and reducing the burden on the population.
Will never cast a vote fot these bunch of spineless traitors!
April 29th, 2010 at 8:19 am
I expect every single one of you who support the increase tobacco tax to be consistent and demand that Neville Key increase the tax on alcohol immediately.
April 29th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Agreed with many of the posts above:
- tax on ciggies more than covers the cost on the public health system.
- this is just an inititative to fund the upcomming budget
I agree, tax on increase generally works as a disincetive… For smart people! 80 percent of smokers are lower class workers/bludgers whilst 50 percent of smokers are maori. Smart people understand the health effects of smoking and can rationalize cost. For dumb people they will fail to understand this and will continue to prioritize cigarettes over their childrens shoes or worse steal to fund their habit. Great news for the gangs though.
Fuck this country is dumb.
April 29th, 2010 at 8:23 am
Extraordinary urgency to raise a fuccking tax, VERY good use of our parliamentry system national.
You’re as bad a labour and there is no reason to vote for either of you.
April 29th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Looks like John got confused pre-elections, was meant to say tax increases for everyone – north of $50.
April 29th, 2010 at 8:38 am
Viking2 (1589) Says:
April 28th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Yes it is a tax grab. to pay for stuff we haven’t the money for. like whanau ora. & the maori party is the tail wagging the dog.
But why the urgency? There is no national disaster or looming crisis.
I thought Labour’s use of urgency was both lacking in integrity and obscene. I didn’t think National would be the same.
Give Key and National a smack next election
Vote Party Vote ACT.
April 29th, 2010 at 9:37 am
VOTE NATIONAL FOR TAX INCREASES!
Bet all of you who put them in are feeling pretty silly now?
[EDIT]: Mike, urgency was discussed near the start of the thread. It stops people hoarding smokes before the new tax comes into effect.
April 29th, 2010 at 11:54 am
I bought a whistle at the $2 shop. Today I posted it to PM John Key.
Instructions – start blowing now, you’re gonna need to get back a lot of votes
April 29th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
So the Nats. think they will shift the blame tothe Maori Party for this by having the change concluded away from the budget. But I doubt it. Shit sticks even if I do agree with increasing the tax. Its the ways it was done.
Worse than that though it now puts the very person who has excelled so far in the Parliament in a very poor light.
I am referring of course to Mr Speaker for he is required to give his blessing before this tactic can be used.
Lockwood Smith, who I have admired as a politician for years has let us down. He has undone in one foul swoop all the good he has created this parliament.
Sad really.
Mabe he has cause a dose of Nicksmith itis!
April 29th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
If you are stupid enough to smoke then you are stupid enough to pay this voluntary tax.
April 29th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Voluntary tax?
Okay lets apply this logic, if you are stupid enough to live in this country then you are stupid enough to pay a voluntary tax.
April 29th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Not silly. Betrayed.
Party Vote ACT !
April 29th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Jeff83
Do you apply the same “logic” to an increased tax on booze?
April 29th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
I heard a man say today;
“The amount I have to cheat on my GST and income tax to get square on the tobacco excise duty…the sum is becoming ridiculous!.
April 29th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
Death and Taxes – nothing more certain…………………………and smoking provides a platform to both
I’d support it ….except its another maori party demand (like ignoring the spanking referendum ) that John Key gives into.
Why not an increased excise on alcohol again?, oh of course, because all of cabinet drink piss and don’t smoke……
April 29th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
many opinions,
I listened to the debate last night and Parliament made it sound as though they were delivering a panacea forr all Maoridom problems, it was sickening , we tax you and you will get better.
I agree with Big Brov somewhere above when he says
big bruv (6027) Says:
April 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Another day, another broken election promise from the gutless wanker we call our PM.
Forget all the bullshit about smoking being a killer, we all know that (apart from Phool) this is only about raising taxes, this from the man who promised “a series of ongoing tax cuts”.
Unless I see a change in Key over the next 18 months I think I will seriously think about voting for Labour, being bent over and fucked by the party you hate is slightly more acceptable than being bent over and fucked by the party you worked to get elected and the party that is supposed to be about less tax and less government.
At least with Labour I will know what I am getting, my dislike of our current PM has now reached the same level of dislike I held for his predecessor.
“
April 30th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
If we lived in a truly democratic country then people should be able to smoke drink, hey even do drugs. Health would be privately funded and you would be charged a rate depentant on your behaviour. BUT OH NO the RED FEDS (and there are no differences here bewteen the 2 major shades) are telling us whats best. Do they think we thick. We get it smoking,drinking and pot bad. But who has the right in a truly democratic society by introducing “sin Tax” and steppin on another person liberty. Smokers more htan subizdise. I smoked and I do not breed like a rabbit. YET THEY TAX THE F out of me to pay for people to have babies. I would like to charge this govt with steppin on my democarcy, theft and tression. Only 4 MPs from The ACT party belive in libeties (don’t know whats wrong with the fifth) and are worthy of any respect. For you lefties I respect your right to belive in (I used to be left but have seen the light) my goodness I could almost write a book, but stop treading on my rights please…… To those on the right, the only way you will get a society based on democracy, liberty and equality is to vote ACT, as evident in the voting parten (dont know whats up with that John B who also voted to be a nanny state). Yes how nice it would be.
PS I am giving up smoking and I thinking about giving half of the savings to the ACT party just as a way to say well you know I won’t swear to the rest of the blood thirsty tax humping, political correct, freedom stealers and thefts