Harawira on FSA
June 15th, 2010 at 9:10 am by David FarrarNZPA reported:
As Maori Party leaders hail the new foreshore and seabed legislation as a victory for their party, one of their MPs says justice hasn’t been delivered.
Hone Harawira said tonight he was “gutted” because the Government didn’t agree to give Maori title to the foreshore and seabed. …
“I’m disappointed, but not surprised, that the prime minister wasn’t bold enough to do the right thing and I’m disappointed he chose to pander to the rednecks rather than give Maori the justice we deserve.”
Mr Harawira said two Maori demands had been met — repeal of the 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act and restoration of Maori access to the courts to test claims to customary rights and title.
“But what Maori were really after was Maori title,” he said.
This indicates very well how difficult the Government’s job was, and the gulf of expectations between what some Maori wanted, and what the Government was offering.
Hone Harawira has a world view that Maori own the foreshore and seabed – always have and always will, and the only problem is the Crown turned up and took it off them.
This is a long long way from what the Court of Appeal found. The Court of Appeal found that an iwi or hapu could make a claim for a discrete portion of the foreshore and seabed if they could prove unbroken customary usage from 1840 to the present day. They stressed this was a high threshold to meet.
So getting an agreement in the face of such diverging views, is no small achievement. It’s one Labour tried to do, but failed at.
Related posts:
- HoS on Foreshore Act repeal
- Agreement reached on Foreshore & Seabed
- Goff flip-flops on Harawira
- Hone’s comparison
June 15th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Oh, the thuggish Harawira is “gutted” and nobody feels sorry for him.
Vote:His opinion is of little importance and to be discarded considering the barbaric individual it comes from.
June 15th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Well with Harawira the main thing he wants to retain is his status as a ‘victim of colonial oppression’, so to that end I believe he will be well satisfied. I have spoken to others of his ilk, after I asked what would make them grievance free was told ‘for the maori to get his land back.’ How much of it? I asked. ‘All of it’ was the reply… but I guess all the non-maori would have to leave NZ, I mean Aotearoa as well.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 9:29 am
According to Hone “the right thing” is to pander to brown necks.
He is the single most racist in New Zealand poltics today. He will never miss any oportunity to abuse, insult and threaten anyone who does not belong to his personally approved select racial group with approved attitudes that mirror his own.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 9:34 am
Well said Murray.
The thing that gets me about John Harawira is that if he was white and held the same racist views the media, the Greens and Maori would be screaming for his resignation.
It seems that only white people can be racists in NZ.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 9:39 am
bb if he was white he’d be a grand dragon.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 9:41 am
DPF, I have seldom read such a load of puffery and waffle. John Key didn’t have a ‘difficult’ job at all. All he had to do was to say “Fuck off, separatists, New Zealand owns its own foreshore and seabed in the name of the Crown”. He failed to say this and as result he has sold the whole country down the river….. not this time to foreign interests (which would be bad enough), but to the racists and separatists within. Next will come all the ‘conservation estate’ which used to be called ‘crown land’ and all the Landcorp farms, hill country leases and National Parks…. closely followed by all local reserves and ultimately private property. Cunt.
[DPF: 20 demerits. You seem incapable of rational dialogue without name calling]
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 9:47 am
Jeeze 20 demerits for an accurate description yesterday and 20 for a lucid evaluation today.
Unless it was for the bodypart reference. Ruling by fear there DPF, no one knows whats next.
[DPF: Calling someone a cunt has pretty much universally got demerits]
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Hone Harawira should look on the bright side, at least John Key continues to recognise the principle of one law for Maori one law for everybody else.
The next campaign Hone Harawira should be working “in partnership” with John Key on is to recognise customary rights of Maori to free tickets to the Rugby World Cup next year. 50% of all tickets including the finals could be reserved for Maori, free of charge of course. The other 50% go on sale as normal, only with an additional tax included to cover the cost of the free tickets. John Key’s National government could also contirbute to the costs by additional contributions for taxpayer funds. Maybe set up a Quango to administor it all. Sounds like something Smile and Wave would be into.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:11 am
John Key is a gutless prime minister and this process shows it. The National caucus thinks that we the blue voters are in full agreement with them and their maori policies. No, we are not in agreement with you, in fact we are fed up with the constancy of maori issues on the table and the bowing to the maori party. Perhaps John Key take note of this, after 41 years or national support I have now flushed it down the toilet for good, I will vote for whoever opposes you Mr. Key and I hope thousands of blue voters will follow my action. You are the worse leader we have ever had.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Hey DPF, its your blog and you have every right to award me as many demerit points as you wish.
However, this does not alter the fact that John Jey and the National led government are a pack of treasonous cunts who have done more in half a term to destroy the legal, social and economic fabric of this country than Hulun and her gang achieved in all its time in government.
You and many of your readers seem to approve of this, so please add up my demerits now and lets get it over with, shall we?
John Key is a treasonous cunt who is set to irreparably damage our country for generations to come by pandering to racist separatists within and internationalist carbon scammers without. What’s more, he has shown by his arrogant and dictatorial dismissal of the public’s referendum views that he is worse as a ‘cure’ than the socialist disease that he was elected to alleviate.
The man and his party are a cabal of slimy untrustworthy traitorous bastards and the tragedy is that the country will not wake up to this duplicity and racist scheming until it is far far too late.
[DPF: Another 20 demerits for cunt]
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:16 am
Yeah I think I see where the problem might be Dave. Excessive use of the c word.
Meanwhile phool is actually advertising is taxpayer sponsored daily drek report for free on kiwiblog. Its funny where some peoples boundries are set.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:29 am
I completely agree with David Mann!
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Mr Mann, you are entitled to your view, and to espouse it, but can you kindly refrain from using that language in a public forum. I’m hardly the sensitive type, and can exchange vulgarisms with the best of them, but your use of the C work is irritating and offensive. Plus it detracts from your argument.
As to the destruction of the Legal Social and Economic fabric of this country, I’d love to know where that comes from. From the repeal of the Foreshore and Seabed act comes the abilty for Maori to pursue thier rights within the existing legal fabric available to all, a right that the previous government saw fit to deprive the Tangata Whenua of. Regarding the Social fabric of the country, how on earth can a Government be held responsible for that? Steps have been taken to address the burgoning crime rate, more police are being recruited, and tougher sentencing as requested by the electorate requires the building of new and more appropriate prisons and other custodial arrangements. The economic fabric of this country was damaged by the global finaicial crisis, but effective management has resulted in this country being in a very good place to catch the resurgence that is bound to happen in these boom and bust cycles.
While I do not approve of the ETS, and the whole Carobn Credit fiasco, this is a continuation of the obligations that the last Labour Government placed upon this country.
And to refer to these people as traitors is a little excessive.
Why don’t you go and have a nice cup of tea and a lie down!
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:36 am
“John Key is a treasonous c… who is set to irreparably damage our country for generations to come by pandering to racist separatists within and internationalist carbon scammers without. What’s more, he has shown by his arrogant and dictatorial dismissal of the public’s referendum views that he is worse as a ‘cure’ than the socialist disease that he was elected to alleviate.”
I concur.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Bro. Key has sold out majority New Zealanders on the foreshore and seabed issue, IMHO. Minority Maori have won an apartheid-like right over the coast through the customary titles they will now win, as the courts seem hell bent on making them super citizens.
The Key-Maori deal has been cleverly managed. Take the run-up to the announcement. First, a cunning diversion with disclosure of credit-card spending by Labour ex-ministers, and then faux reservations about the deal from the Maori Party and Maori generally. A photograph on the front page of today’s Christchurch Press shows Maori leaders, including the rather pale Ngai Tahu leader, in the Beehive. They look pretty pleased. Almost trying to hide their smiles from the photographers.
As for Harawira’s “gutted” reaction: he’s the most dramatically theatrical of all the MPs and completes the scene.
The report on the front page of today’s Christchurch Press gives the nub of the deal:
Bro. Key can retreat to Hawaii if he becomes hated by the majority in NZ. I’m not sure about his Attorney-General and Minister for the Waitangi Treaty, list MP Christopher Finlayson. He might enjoy being loathed.
As Finlayson said in his maiden speech:
Finlayson is reported as indicating resource consent rules will protect NZ from “massive hotel complexes” on beaches. But isn’t Bro. Key’s Coalition in the process of relaxing the consent regime?
Finlayson also said in his maiden speech of Labour’s Foreshore and Seabed act:
Finlayson clearly doesn’t see legislation biased towards a racial minority as discriminatory. His first degree was in Latin and in many ways he reminds me of one of an early Jesuit. Let’s remember, no matter how clever they were at Aristotelian logic, they were hard to shake from the view that the Sun moved round Earth.
In a recent article, Finlayson was described as variously: waspish and charming, bossy and vulnerable. Anthony Hubbard in the Sunday Star Times wrote that Finlayson, whom he pictured as a gay but apparently celibate Catholic, had described himself to a a gay audience as an odd fish.
Finlayson’s certainly highly intelligent, but as a self-described liberal-conservative in the style of Gentleman Jack Marshall, I suspect Finlayson would give the whole country to Maori if it was in his power.
I doubt the austere Finlayson would be elected to Parliament under any system, proportional or FPP, other than MMP. MMP’s party lists gave him entry, as well as giving such as huge power to the under-5 per cent Maori Party.
If the Broederbund had known about MMP, it would probably still be running South Africa.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:38 am
What argument? He makes Hone Harawira sound moderate. Fortunately National represents more normal New Zealanders.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 10:42 am
So Dave…
Act would do better?
Yea right
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Funny, isn’t that exactly what Labour did with the FSA?
Maybe you should have voted Labour instead.
So Labours (over)reaction to Brash’s dogwhistling redneck politics is now being repealed, and guess who’s not happy.
Reaping what you sow is what comes to mind
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Nope Lance, I’m not an ACT supporter.
OK…. In view of the comments about my language, I am happy to take back my use of the word ‘cunt’. I stand by my use of the word ‘treasonous’, though.
So how about ‘prick’? How would that go down with you, dear readers?
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:21 am
….. or maybe ‘hijo de puta’? Actually, hijo de puta is a far better description, given the linguistic context of how it would be used. Yes… hijo de puta is perfect. Lets settle with hijo de puta.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:26 am
Dave Mann, by focusing the thread on what sort of obscene description best suits, you are helping the Key-Finlayson diversion squad to draw attention away from the colossal con. job they have pulled on the non-Maori majority of NZers.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:34 am
OK Jack5…. sorry about that. My apologies, but I thought it was DPF who started the discussion on which term of abuse is most suitable, but hey, I’ll butt out. Talk amongst yourselves and I’ll just read and fume quietly. Deal?
p.s. btw Radio Live is currently holding a great discussion on the subject.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:41 am
So National would have majority support if this was put to a referendum PG?
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Sorry, Banana I know I said I would butt out……. but I just cannot resist pointing out the obvious fact that whatever the result of a referendum might be, John Key (HdP) would take ABSOLUTELY NO NOTICE of it at all.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 11:58 am
the only problem is the Crown turned up and took it off them.
Hell… Maori were giving it away to any Tom Dick or Harry… untill the Crown stepped in… saying Maori land could only sold to the Crown… only if Maori agreed to sell… how do you think early whalers families and the churches got to own such vast amounts.
Hone Harawira should be “gutted” because the Government has only given Maori the right to go to court to prove customary rights and title… and then said they can’t have ownership title.
So they can now go to court to prove they owned it… but they can’t have it back… I would feel a little pissed too if I were
Hone… tough.. Good politics National.
I would have liked for all the seabed and foreshore including private title in time be put back into the ownership of all New Zealanders… not Private not Crown not Maori all New Zealanders.. Aotearoa Land for free public use only.. but we know that won’t happen… when there’s money to be gained from exploiting its minerials etc.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Law by referendum? That’s one of the best reasons not to use referenda. Especially if Rednecks First and Sensible Racism got in on the act.
How many are fizzing at the bung on Kiwiblog?
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
As I said yesterday, I can’t see what was wrong with it being owned by the Crown. It’s just going to stir up more trouble in the end isn’t it? Now we’ll get Maori going to court, making claims, and either of two things will happen –
1) The claim will be successful, and it will irritate the rest of NZ.
2) The tribe won’t be successful and they will spit the dummy and organize protests (ho-hum) up Queen St.
So much for a solution. It’s a temporary appeasement on both sides until the claims start rolling in and the arguments begin.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Because scribbling on paper and issuing decrees works so much better.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
I agree with Dave Mann’s sentiments.
On a side note, if anyone wants to drop a C bomb, try four posts down at “This would be a nice test for the BSA”. I think you’ll fine it’s Ok to let rip there.
[DPF: It can be acceptable when not being used as to describe a person]
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
If the Maori Party and their professional hori colleagues think it is a good deal for Maori you can bet the farm on the fact that this will not be good for the country.
Key appears to have totally forgotten about a certain speech at Orewa in 2004 that was largely responsible for the massive boost in Nationals popularity. One law for all.
Also, can anyone tell me if all the Maori tribes are registered as charities like Tainui. Charity = No tax.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
This is a red herring. Hone’s not happy,therefor its got to have an upside for the whitey.
In fact F&S should be in Crown ownership. The new customary title business will perpetuate the Waitangi gravy train.
Customary title=my ancestors killed and ate their predessors before whitey came along so I claim this bit of land and demand you pay for it today.
This is too important for a court or parliament to decide ,it should go to referendum…….oh sorry I forgot ,in this democracy we dont allow the people to decide matters important to their own futures.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
I often wonder what the Asian and other ethic communities think of the Maori thinking as regards TOW issues etc etc. as expressed by Hone.
I suspect they are 2 respectful to offer a public opinion as my contact with them as been they are reticent to criticise their new adopted country.
I wonder if they are a little tired of the endless bitching and moaning especially when they see the contrast in Maori childrens lack of achievement compared to the high level of children who come from a non English speaking country and very quickly excel to the extent they feature in school and university prize and scholarship lists.
Do they perhaps wonder at the upside down priorities of the Maori leadership and its lack of real concern and it lack of capacity capability and will to turn around the appalling statistics?
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Hone Harawira’s world view that Maori own the Seabed and Foreshore is correct.The Treaty is quite explicit in Article 2 and perhaps that is what Hone is referring to.
Vote:This government has not resolved the question of ownership amicably and as a consequence this issue will be revisited many times over in the future as the demand for resources intensifies globally.
June 15th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
How is he on article 1 Kev?
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Kevin H. in his 2.41 post makes some assumptions. He says:
There was no economic zone in 1840, and Maori had no technology for bottom trawling, and perhaps had never heard of it. So the seabed, if referred to in the treaty, could only have meant a chain or two from the low water mark.
We are told often that Maori concepts similar to Western ownership related to occupation of land. Well they didn’t occupy the sea floor, did they Kevin?
And Kevin also said:
Intermarriage between Maori and other NZers will likely resolve the issue within a generation or two. Maori identity is quite fragile in the long term, as it is for all minorities intermarrying with a majority.
Similarly, NZ’s differentiation from Australia will also decline with two-way migration and intermarriage. For example, how long until there are more ethnic Maori in Australia than in NZ? Australian Maori will in a generation or two be absorbed into mainstream Australia.
But at issue in this thread is Bro. Key’s opening the way for courts to give Maori bropartheid rights over the foreshore and seabed.
Are Brownlee’s pipe dreams of riches of gas, manganese etc on the sea floor driving the Maori beach-grab campaign?
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
I have no problem with ALL the foreshore etc being in crown hands.
Vote:They should pay those who have title over some of it what we hori got,oh we got nothing, well that sounds fair enough let’s spread the pain a bit.
June 15th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Grumpy, we can disagree on this one until the inevitable tsunami hits NZ and sends the rich-arses and the iwi inland.
Vote:June 15th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Finished having your rants yet?
Vote:All that is happening is that land seabed and foreshore that is current owned under CROWN Administration will be moved to the PUBLIC DOMAIN concept. This will have a no sale clause and all rights to use etc will be protected.
Presently the Crown and Crown entities own this and can sell it as they wish. Look at the horse trading that happens all the time with the Auckland Harbour.
I am happy to see all this locked up in a Statutory Public Domain that will prevent its sale. The Maori have actually gained nothing.
What they can do is go to the High court if the consider they can prove exclusive and continuous use of a piece of foreshore or seabed since 1840.
Now if you think about that there ain’t many places in this country where Maori could prove that exclusive and continuous use exists.
Sure there may be some mineral rights available for a mineral not yet thought of and Maori will get some say on the way the place is managed but I’m not so sure that’s bad. DOC for example have made a mess of a few places including Te Urewera National Park.
The devil will be in the detail but its going to select committee so you can all have a whine grizzle and moan there.
June 15th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Viking, I still reckon there will be Treaty claims on it now. The Maori party wouldn’t have been looking so pleased with themselves yesterday if they weren’t going to be gaining from the outcome. They would have made noises of dissatisfaction if it haven’t turned out in their favour.
Vote:June 16th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Viking2 at 7.32pm June 15:
Finished your PR plug for Bro. Key, Viking2?
According to the NZ Herald (link below), the Attorney-General, Christopher Finlayson, seems to be indicating the change is somewhat more than what you imply…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10652194
Vote:June 17th, 2010 at 11:45 am
The Green Party aren’t happy:
Ki ora [Fellow Hater and Wrecker]
Ownership of the foreshore and seabed is back under the media spotlight, with
the National and Maori parties reaching a deal to repeal the law. Sadly, this
new deal will simply replace Labour’s confiscation with a new confiscation, as
Maori rights are put into “public space”.
It’s disappointing that John Key has put nothing in the proposal to stop owners
of private title restricting access to or selling the foreshore into foreign
ownership, while undermining Maori rights so significantly.
We’d make sure our beaches could never be sold off to overseas owners, and
uphold the right of Maori to go to court to have customary title tested. Public
access would be guaranteed.
We think looking after our beautiful beaches has to be part of the solution, so
we’d also protect them from pollution and development.
Regards,
Metiria Turei
Vote:June 19th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Finlayson was suppose to travel around the country on taxpayers money to hear the views of the public. I was at one of those meetings. Key and Finlayson think the public is stupid. Finlayson spoke down to those who weren’t Maori and quite defensive with his answers. He kept reminding us that Maori and Sign Language are the two national languages in New Zealand. It took an older woman to get up and remind Finlayson that English, Maori, and sign language were the three national languages of New Zealand. He didn’t say anything. He had his mind made up before his tour which is why he should pay for his own travel. That night, Finlayson came accross as reprensenting Maori, but no one except the public with no power represented the rest of New Zealand. Key has forgotten that it was Don Brash’s Orewa speech that put National back on the map. Hopefully this will weaken National’s position in the next election.
Vote: