Analysing Police v Slater
September 17th, 2010 at 10:00 am by David FarrarHave now had some time to go through the 70 page decision, which I blogged previously. There’s a lot of interesting issues there – some of which may affect other bloggers – and even the media.
This case is about whether or not a person behaved in a manner that breached the law and in doing so utilised some of the communications technologies associated with the Internet. It is not a case about whether or not the law should allow nonpublication orders. That debate must take place in another forum.
Such as blogs! The furore over Garrett is another example of the fading power to keep names suppressed. It seems that just because he admitted it in Parliament, doesn’t mean one can repeat what he said with immunity. But myself, along with every media outlet in NZ, decided the risk of prosecution was nil as it was the defendant himself who revealed what he had been charged with and got name suppression for.
And even if he had not, it was inevitable it would have ended up in the public domain, We saw this also in another recent case regard issues around a failed marriage of a political figure – the media never stated who it was, but made it very clear from heir reporting.
It is also to be noted that postings on a blog may come from a number of sources and usually include the administrator or supervisor of the blog site. However most administrators or supervisors of blog sites must hold some responsibility for the comments that are posted.
This is a warning that a blog owner can be held responsible for comments made on their blog. Unlikely to be held responsible if you are unaware of them, but if a comment is pointed out to a blog owner – and you refuse to edit or delete it – then you may face some liability.
This poses some dangers to blog owners. Let us say it is announced a politician got name suppression for urinating in public. Someone in General Debate might say “I reckon that is the sort of thing Simon Bridges would do”. Now as blog owner I have no idea who the politician is. If it turns out to be Simon Bridges, then I may be liable for the comment. If Crown Law contacts me and says you should take it down as it is Simon Bridges, then I’d take it down, but readers might then take that as proof it was him. And it means Crown Law have also spread the identity of the person with name suppression.
SO there may need to be some way blog owners can check out details of suppression orders, if they are to be liable for comments made on their sites. But do you allow all 200,000 blog owners to access some register of suppression orders? That may be self-defeating!
However the “conversation” differs from that which may take place over a cup of coffee or across a dinner table. The first difference is that the material that is posted upon the blog is posted primarily in the form of text.
Thus, unlike a conversation, the blog becomes a record which is preserved and available on the blog site until such time as it is removed by the person responsible for administering it.
And presumably this applies to Twitter and Facebook also.
Even if the blog were to be accessible by means of subscription
with a login and a password it could well in my view be subject to the same constraints.
At first I thought this was over-reach, but I then compared it to the Trans-Tasman newsletter which you need a login and password to access. If they broke a name suppression order, they would certainly be deemed a publication.
The Court has jurisdiction notwithstanding the fact that the server hosting Mr. Slater’s website is located in San Antonio Texas in the United States of America. This is because publication of information takes place where the material is downloaded and comprehended.
I don’t like this interpretation, as it effectively implies that if you publish material on the Internet, you are a publisher in every country on earth. This means I may have broken the laws of dozens of countries with my blog.
I believe that it should only be deemed to be published in the country in which the person responsible resides and or where the servers used reside. Otherwise you risk an Internet which ends up governed by the most repressive country.
Of course I can avoid travelling to certain countries, but I don’t want to travel to (for example) Indonesia and find myself arrested for something I said on my blog about Islam (for example).
In addition the evidence is that Mr Slater posted material to the Whaleoil site from New Zealand thus performing an act necessary for the commission of an offence pursuant to s. 7 of the Crimes Act 1961.
Cameron did not deny he uploaded the material. If the site was registered to someone not in NZ, and the uploading was done by someone not in NZ, then there would be little the legal system could do. Lance Wiggs blogs on ths point:
What if the author of the overseas site is unknown? What if the site is hosted in multiple places around the world? What if the site that received emails and published names was Wikileaks.org? What if there was a global site called NameSuppression.org, with a nz.NameSupression.Org sub-domain? The owners could be shadowy, the location ever in doubt and the publisher untouchable.
It can’t be long before this occurs, and then what shall we do in New Zealand? Block the site as the Australians tried to do with Wikileaks? Go after anyone that links to the site?
The issue of links is also interesting. Back to that later.
Constable Traviss also gave evidence of a “posting” on Mr Slater’s blog which is known by his “nom d’internet” of Whaleoil.
Heh I think we have a new legal term!
The internet allows everyone to be a publisher.
I do wish people would capitalise Internet.
Many bloggers prefer to differentiate themselves from mainstream media and rather than post what may be described as “hard news” prefer to post comment or articles that put a “spin” upon a particular story or alternatively offer an opinion (which may be of considerable strength and sometimes of pungent articulation).
Did Judge Harvey just call bloggers hot and spicy?
One feature however that differentiates a blog from say, a newspaper, is that a blog occupies a continuum of comment where a particular posting or item may start on one day but may continue and develop over a period of time. In many respects this continuum may have an impact upon the context of the publication or posting.
This is an interesting observation, as it meshes with something I had been reflecting on. Newspapers tend to always write stories to be read “stand alone”. So they will mention background context in every story. So even after their 20th story on David Garrett, they will re-state how he is an ACT MP elected in 2008 etc.
Blogs tends to assume that readers have read what they have said previously, and/or that they follow current affairs closely enough, that they don’t bother to supply all the background detail. This may be one reason why blogs are popular – you get to the meat of the issue.
But it does mean, as Judge Harvey stated, that blogs are more a continuum of comment, and posts can’t be treated as stand alone.
That comment seems to suggest that the effectiveness of an order made pursuant to s 140 is limited to publication in New Zealand. That is perfectly correct.
To suggest that a non-publication order pursuant to s 140 would have extra territorial effect is nonsense.
Of course such orders can not have extra-territorial effect, but in terms of futility, a publication on an overseas blog (or even newspaper) is just as capable of undermining the suppression order.
In the present case the availability of the material from a server located in San Antonio, Texas in the United States has little relevance. The evidence before me is that the material was able to be read and comprehended in New Zealand (thus constituting a publication) and the material was uploaded on the Whaleoil blog by Mr Slater present in New Zealand at the time.
What would be interesting is if Slater had a co-blogger who was based overseas. Would Slater as administrator be liable for what the co-blogger writes on a server is Texas? What if the co-blogger was the domain name registrant?
Judge Harvey himself gets into this:
But what of the person (A) who makes a suppressed name available to a person (B) beyond the jurisdiction, and B posts the name on a his or her blog or website in a country other than New Zealand? Without specifically deciding the point, according to the decision of Hammond J in Re X the communication between A in New Zealand and B overseas could fall within the concept of a private conversation between individuals and may therefore would not fall within the scope of s. 140(1).
This is not a definite ruling, but an interesting indication that merely telling someone overseas details of a suppression order might not be an offence. Even if it was, it would be incredibly hard to prove of course.
The fact that the information is available on the internet and accessible to people in New Zealand who may subscribe to the blog or know of the webpage does not present any element of novelty. In 2000 the day after the non-publication order was made in the Lewis Case, Mr. Lewis’ name was published in the Australian newspaper which, a couple of days later, was available in newspaper rooms in New Zealand and probably on the Australian website of the day.
A case Judge Harvey is well acquainted with.
While not relevant to the finding of fact in a particular case, it is relevant to our law makers when reviewing the law.
Following from that is the New Zealand based blogger who may embed a link to the off-shore blogsite which contains the suppressed name. One should be cautious in such circumstances that one does not become involved in “publishing” by way of hypertext link. In the case of Universal City Studios v Reimerdes and Corley, a Court made an order that the defendant’s website was prohibited from directly providing files which contained the DeCSS code which enabled the circumvention of copy protection algorithms on DVDs. When the defendants posted links on their websites to other sites that provided DeCSS either by way of direct download via the link or by means of an extra few websites, the Court held that utilising this device was a “distinction without a difference” to offering a direct download. I have no doubt this point or something like it will fall to be decided in this country in some future case.
This is the aspect that may have implications for bloggers and media. I raised this issue last year also at the R v Internet seminar. Consider a case where say Whale Oil again breaches a suppression order, and this is reported on by media and/or other blogs. In order of decreasing risk, you have possibilities:
- You mention Whale has (allegedly) broken another suppression order provide a link through to the actual post which allegedly breaches a suppression order.
- You mention Whale has (allegedly) broken another suppression order and provide a link through his blog, but not the actual post which allegedly breaches a suppression order.
- You mention Whale has (allegedly) broken another suppression order and on your blogroll you have a link through to his blog.
- You mention Whale has (allegedly) broken another suppression order and have no links to his site anywhere at all.
- You mention a “notorious blogger” has (allegedly) broken another suppression order.
All of the above actions could lead to a large number of people finding out the name of a suppressed person.
(1) is something which to my mind does cross the line, and would be unwise to do. But how different is that to (2). If you provide a link to his blog, it will probably be on the front page and discoverable within seconds. So (2) may get you in trouble with the law also.
Then how about (3). The only difference between (2) and (3) is someone has to go from looking at the main body of your blog, to the sidebar with a blogroll, and click through to follow the link. (3) is not far from (2) and (2) is not far from (1).
So how about (4) and you provide no links at all, anywhere on your site. Well, 95% of people who do not know the URL of Whale Oil will go to Google, and his blog comes up first. Same thing if you search on his name only. So I am not sure (4) is very far removed from (3). This would mean that every media outlet that named Cameron or his blog, could be at some risk – especially if they have any links at all in their archives to his site.
But what if they don’t even mention his name, or his site’s name at all. Well even scenario (5) can lead to lots of people who will find out the identity of a suppressed name. You see in this example Whale Oil is so well know as the site which has breached previous orders, that there are probably 100,000+ people who upon reading in the newspaper “A controversial blogger has revealed the name of the /musician/politician/sportsman who did ….” that they will know exactly which site to go to to find out, and then of course tell all their friends.
So maybe the only way to stop it, is to have a law where it is illegal to even mentioned that a suppression order exists, let alone it has been breached. But that is draconian, and would not be accepted. So where do you draw the line?
Some of the charges have a name published under the heading “Interesting Name.” Mr Thwaite argues that this means nothing. Mr Burns responds by arguing that one must look at the context of that particular publication taking into account that further information is available on the blog site relating to the case involving the particular name which has been displayed in another place on the blog site.
Mr Burns argues that because the blog is in the nature of a continuum that it is clear to the reader that the name relates to another article on the site and it is merely a matter of marrying the two.
This brings up an interesting possibility. What if you never ever posted on the actual substantive story relating to a suppressed name, and just posted the name by itself?
Or you can find some other way to refer to the person with name suppression. The mainstream media do this quite often. In one story they report an entertainer has been granted name suppression, and in another they report that so and so has been dropped from TV. Will they get treated as a continuum or only blogs?
Similarly with the pictogram. The information can be decoded in the same way that an aggregation of information may lead to the identification of a person by way of a process of elimination – another form of interpreting a particular code or solving a puzzle. The use of phonetically coded information (which is how the pictogram resolves the name) is not unknown to Mr. Slater. I venture to suggest that the words “Whaleoil Beef Hooked” on the “masthead” of his homepage provides an example.
Ha. I wonder how many times the Judge had to try it out loud with an Irish accent before he worked it out – it took me a few goes
Mr. Slater also maintains a certain amount of control over the content that is published. He was asked “You’ll just publish it anyway?” He replied “If I agree with it. I won’t publish something I don’t agree with” – an ironic answer in light of the freedom of expression argument which his counsel has advanced.
Not really ironic in my opinion. In the comments section, Cameron does allow contrary views to be posted all the time – in fact I’ve never known him to censor a comment. His comments were, I suspect, referring to what appears on the front page or main posts of Gotcha.
The evidence is also clear from some of the posts by Mr. Slater that his campaign was going to go beyond legitimate protest and criticism and was going to enter the realm of “electronic civil disobedience” by the publication of certain names that were the subject of non-publication orders.
I quite like that term “electronic civil disobedience”!
The judgement answers a number of questions about our name suppression laws and will I imagine be cited often in the future.
It does however leave unresolved potentially larger questions for the future – such as liability for linking, and whether communicating suppressed details to an overseas blogger would be an offence. Of course that is because those questions did not have to be answered in this particular case.
I look forward to seeing what changes to name suppression laws are proposed by the Government, in response to the Law Commission’s report.
Tags: Cameron Slater, Judge Harvey, name suppression, Whale Oil
September 17th, 2010 at 10:14 am
“The Court has jurisdiction notwithstanding the fact that the server hosting Mr. Slater’s website is located in San Antonio Texas in the United States of America. This is because publication of information takes place where the material is downloaded and comprehended.”
This is a bit like saying when a book is printed in the USA it is only “published” when I read it in my home in NZ
Silly
Seems like a lot of the judge’s rulings followed a predetermined path
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:25 am
“This is because publication of information takes place where the material is downloaded and comprehended.”
Further to my above comment
Would this scenario be breaking name suppression according to Judge Harvey
Website is hosted by a New Zealand Server but the information is downloaded in Australia
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:26 am
“I don’t like this interpretation, as it effectively implies that if you publish material on the Internet, you are a publisher in every country on earth.”
This is the same sort of interpretation that English defamation courts has adopted. If someone in NZ makes a defamatory comment about someone in UK in a blog, web site etc, the NZ resident can be sued in England under England’s harsh defamation laws, and a New Zealand court will almost certainly enforce the judgment in the interests of ‘comity’. If any NZ resident receives such a writ, ignoring it is extremely dangerous.
USA (either through legislation or court decisions) will not enforce English defamation judgments against its residents. IMO, New Zealand should legislate in a similar manner.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:29 am
You’d never get anyone then, because the servers are almost certainly (for New Zealanders) in a different country.
(or did you mean “or” instead of “and”?)
Slater is a New Zealander, writing for a New Zealand audience, so it doesn’t surprise me that he was found to have published in New Zealand. I’m sure you could come up with corner cases where it’s not so clear, but this is not one.
Well, this could happen anyway. New Zealand law holds no influence over Indonesian law. They could make it illegal to defame Islam anywhere in the world, and what are you going to do?
[DPF: Yes I did mean or and have corrected. And I agree that Cameron was liable as he himself is in NZ. I was not arguing against the finding - just against the principle that you are deemed a publisher in every country you are read]
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:29 am
“Police v Slater”?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:33 am
one thing David, Crown Law doesn’t contact you and ask you to take it down, what happens is two cops turn up at 1130 at night, hammer on your bedroom window and then serve you a summons.
Unless of course you get special treatment.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:41 am
The overseas hosting is irrelevant: the domain name is a .co.nz , the author is NZ based, the material is all focussed on NZand the audience is NZ based.
If you published something uncomplimentary about Islam you wouldn’t have to worry about travelling to Indonesia, the religion of peace might come to you : “Molly Norris, former cartoonist for Seattle Weekly, has gone into hiding on the advice of the FBI after receiving death threats from an Islamic extremist.”
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/arts/artdesign/story/2010/09/16/norris-in-hiding.html#ixzz0zjdCkxvc
The Gotcha! campaign was always pitched to challenge name suppression: to argue that it wasn’t during the court case was a little disingenuous.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Or the contrary. It took until now for anyone to find out. Name suppression keeps things quiet for years – usually that will be enough.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:43 am
I’d be happy to be a test case for offshore publishing as mentioned – I am a resident of Australia, and I’d be publishing in Australia? I could take it one step further and have it hosted in the Islands (good excuse for a holiday in Vanuatu methinks). I could put a big disclaimer on the front of the page (like when you go to a porn site) stating that “this site may contain information that is illegal in some jurisdictions including New Zealand”. Is it illegal for Whale to then link to me? We should have covered our arses then.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:55 am
WHy would you want to capitalise ‘the Internet’? Are you a German? Or one of those who work in law or the government and thinks that putting a capital on the front makes it Really Important?
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 10:57 am
In a way it is a shame that we didn’t get a definite ruling on whether linking constitutes infringement – I am sure this will come up in a later case. I suspect that it will all come down to Intent – did the linker intend for the infringing information to become public.
For those interested, I wrote my own summary of the case on my blog a couple of days ago, but frankly this post is better. Judgements like this affect everyone with a web site in this country, it does us all good to keep up to date with this stuff.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:02 am
Capitalization of “the Internet” is to distinguish it from an internet (or interconnected network).
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:13 am
context will mostly give you that. A capital is clutter IMO
I read the judgement and I thought it was pretty clear – the law says you can’t publish and electronic media is a form of publishing, and no amount of shilly shallying can protect you from that. I thought it was all rather unsurprising and in line with accepted law.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:17 am
David capitalises the Internet in the same way christians capitalise God.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 11:27 am
@ gazza Nail meet head of hammer.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
As I read whats above I feel fear for anyone using the Internet. How big of a step before we have the net controls that China, Australia etc are in the process of using or installing.
In a connected world anything, anywhere, anytime will fall under the censors gaze.
In the end though the law cannot win. The internet is an open society and if they begin to build Berlin Walls around it all then the walls will be bought down along with the builders of those walls.
Just as satelites with TV destroyed clamp on freedom and expression in the Soviet States and the Internet is doing the same in China so will the Interent and its openess destroy those that want to regress to the mushroom age. Including eventually Islam.
More importantly this Judge didn’t write this judgement during lunch. It was predetermined and Slater should challange it on that basis and ask for a jury trial next time.
Vote:Given Lawyers penchants for rorting everyone as was discussed yesterday in Aussie the sooner they are opened to transparency the better.
September 17th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Add to that I just bet it won’t be the lefties and their followers that ever get attacked. Only those that are ouytspoken against injustice.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
This District Court judgment is not binding on any superior Court. The reasoning is fully set out, as is common with cases which are likely to appealed or cited in a higher Court. This judgment adds little, if any, to the law and at most is persuasive.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Anybody who is having trouble sleeping should read “Analysing Police v Slater”. Also did you know the police have a very high turn over? One guy I know said he left the force because he spent many hard yards catching the bad guys and the Judges would let them go.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I’m obviously no lawyer, but this is my guess:
Let’s say you are some foreigner and you blog something which has been suppressed in NZ.
If I, a kiwi, write on my blog: “Remember that case recently? Go check out this page, it has interesting information”, then it wouldn’t surprise me if I got in trouble for it, because I’m clearly directing people to suppressed information.
On the other hand, if I had a link to your blog in my sidebar, and suppressed info passes through your blog without me drawing attention to it, then I don’t think I’m breaking the law.
We may need more judgements (or a law change) to map out where the border lies. But my gut feeling is that you’re brekaing the law if you’re actively helping people to find out suppressed details. Whale Oil was; the White Pages is not.
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
The impression I got is that the judge had it mostly written up in advance, based on Slater’s lawyer’s preivous arguments. The lawyer didn’t advance any new arguments, so there wasn’t much more to do. If the lawyer had come up with something new, maybe it would have taken longer.
re jury trial — he’d better hurry up, if so, since Simon Power’s looking at cutting back on jury trials..
Vote:September 17th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Whale Oil Beef Hooked. Saying it out loud should not take too many trys to figure it out
Vote: