Born in the USA
April 29th, 2011 at 9:59 am by David FarrarStuff reports:
Responding to critics’ relentless claims, US President Barack Obama has produced a detailed Hawaii birth certificate in an extraordinary attempt to bury the issue of where he was born and confirm his legitimacy to hold office. He declared, “We do not have time for this kind of silliness.”
By going on national TV from the White House on Wednesday (local time), Obama portrayed himself as a voice of reason amid a loud, lingering debate on his birth status. Though his personal attention to the issue elevated it as never before, Obama said to Republican detractors and the media, it is time to move on to bigger issues.
Maybe now people will STFU on this issue. It has been the right wing equivalent of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists on the left.
I suspect Obama finally released his long form record as Donald Trump has started championing the birthers claims.
April 29th, 2011 at 10:05 am
I wonder if he get’s beaten up by Da Kine when he surfs on the North Shore.
He has to teach his kids how to surf…at Pipeline, outa way, I da pressie’s son.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Ok, alright, but WHERE’S THE PLACENTA? EH? EH??
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am
I very much doubt the Birthers will STFU on this issue. I fully expect them to start claiming the document to be a fraud.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am
Well its all good then everyone vote for Obama for another four years of not changing one single Bush policy like he got elected to do.
America is able to produce lemons just as well as Kenya.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:09 am
You mean like Dan Rather did Arthur?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:09 am
No, I can’t really see it happening either.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:10 am
After the secret service covered up 9/11 forging the birth certificates and going back in time to insert the fake birth notices would be easy. Anyone can see that Obama is actually black and therefore can’t be a “natural born” American.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:13 am
Murray said:
“You mean like Dan Rather did Arthur?”
Oh God, has it started already?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:16 am
My comment was fake Arthur.
But accurate.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Still so many other questions and as Fletch showed elsewhere..yes the latest edition is a fraud..he was born long before the hospital was built. He was known as Barry Soetoro till his late teens. When and why the name change? He was a muslim in Indonesia..but says he has always been a Christian. Mullahs paid for his education…Why? And what of his trip to Pakistan on a non-American passport? What country’s passport was he using? Indonesian? Kenyan? His father was born in Kenya therefore he does not qualify as a natural born American citizen therefore he should not be President. Why no release of his travel and other records? Why has he spent millions trying to cover things up if he has nothing to hide?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:19 am
And I thought I was joking.
And I thought Dan Rather couldn’t let it go when he was demonstrably wrong. Oh well.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:20 am
I’d much rather see a movement seeking to expose what that thing on Trump’s head REALLY is. I think it’s an alien symbiant cleverly disguised as a toupee.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:20 am
I’ve just been to Pak n Save, they’ve completely sold out of tin foil!!!! Fuck, will a strategically placed aluminium baking tray folded appropriately do the trick? Help anyone?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Its a tribble adze, don’t wake it up or we’ll be knee deep in the damned things.
Hey hows that policy thing coming kaya? You like Bushes work because thats what The One has delviered.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Not only is Obama clearly born in a muslim country despite the forged birth certificate.
He plans to turn the US into a religious fundamentalist country. So fundamentalist that no one could claim not to be of that ilk and be elected to public office. Just a second they are already there clearly a successful plot.
PS I understand that in Albania joana is a Islamic name
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:24 am
OK birthers are such fruit loops I need to confess – I have no idea if joana is carrying on the parody or is the real deal.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:25 am
@ kaya the baking tray will be fine so long as it is aluminum, it’s actually thicker gauge than the foil so should perform even better.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:25 am
Anyone can see that Obama is actually black and therefore can’t be a “natural born” American.
Actually one of the criticisms of the latest version of the birth certificate is that his father is noted as “African” rather than “negroe” and that proves it is not authentic. Along with every other reason under the tin foil.
The ex blog birther in chief is going frantic on his Falsered blog.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:26 am
ROFLMAO
These are the most desperate straws you are clutching at, and you know it.
IMHO – Obama decided to sit on this for as long as possible, the minute he saw that freaks like you were willing to waste enormous amounts of time and energy on this ridiculous non-issue, when you could have been ripping into him on stuff of actual substance instead.
I know I’d be angry too if I found out I’d been played like that…
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:31 am
I dunno, What do any of you regard as having more integrity: family members that say they witnessed a birth, or a layered pdf?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:33 am
His father was born in Kenya therefore he does not qualify as a natural born American citizen therefore he should not be President.
That would also exclude Donald Trump, Mitt Romney, Bobby Jindal.
But the clincher, the most solid reason why the BC must be false is this:
“I remember that even David Farrar once stated quite unequivocally that the Birth Certificate had been produced.”
I don’t miss RB, much better without him here, but it’s good to go and remember the old days sometimes.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:39 am
Who cares anyway, its a stupid law.
The president should be elected on his policies and ability to do the job. Not looking so good now is he.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am
Joana, do you agree with other birthers that Obama’s dead mother should be dug up for DNA samples to be taken to prove he is her son ?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:44 am
Well said, pathetic tangent and simply detracts from legitimate policy criticism.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:47 am
@ kaya “will a strategically placed aluminium baking tray folded appropriately do the trick? ”
I think the only sane response to the whole ‘Birther’ issue is hysterical laughter accompanied by repeatedly banging your head with the baking tray until it is moulded into shape. Failing that, at great expense, you can have an aluminium prosthesis made that bears a passing resemblance to human hair: it works for ‘the Donald’.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Of course I am the real deal , just not as brainwashed as some of the rest of you..and no I am not Albanian.
Vote:Even the Obaminations sisters can’t agree on which hospital he was born in. Noone ever answers the question; why has he spent millions trying to keep things covered up if there is nothing to hide?
April 29th, 2011 at 10:49 am
In all fairness to the fruitloops, it would be incredibly easy to mock that birth certificate up should someone have a desire to.
But I agree, Obama should be voted out based on his failures to live up to his pre-election promises.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:50 am
Because he hasn’t?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:52 am
No James, of course he won’t have financed it himself, it will have been bankrolled by the
Vote:Secret Organisation for LifeLong Birthplace Faking.
April 29th, 2011 at 10:52 am
“I’m not the messiah”
Vote:“Only the true messiah denies his divinity”
“Alright I AM the messiah”
“He admits it! He is the messiah”.
April 29th, 2011 at 10:55 am
The democrats were campaigning against the legacy of the least popular Republican since Nixon. Do you really think that the party would have put up a candidate that was not legal, sseing as the election was theirs to lose?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Hes not the messiah, he a bloody awful golf player!
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Which might be believable if he had not immediately got on a plane to Chicago to attend the Oprah show and talk about the Birth Certificate stuff. Real gravitas and seriousness shown there but I see Stuff did not include that as it would have rather contradicted the narrative of … portrayed himself as a voice of reason… .
But then talking about such ephemera is preferable to talking about inflation, the weak economy, the stalemate in Libya, the general clusterfuck that is the Middle East, the splitting seams in Obamacare (1000 waivers to date?), his farcical budget proposals and so forth.
I noted that he claimed in his TV address that he realised he had to do something about this when the coverage of it overwhelmed that of his “budget” speech (thanks CNN and MSNBC /sarc). Oh please, the story helped him for a long time in the endless attempts to distract from real problems and ‘kookify’ his GOP opponents by association. The WH just admitted that they would not have done this had the economy been doing fine and his polls had been strong. However, recent polls showed the story starting to hurt him so it was time to put an end to it.
I wonder if it has ever occurred to Obama or his staff that the reason the bird-bath intellects of the MSM went for Trump and the BC story was that Obama’s budget speech was such a vacuous waste of space, so obviously an un-serious piece of 2012 campaign demagoguery and empty rhetoric, that it was not worth covering?
I’m okay with that though – the longer Obama thinks he can pull off the “one speech and I’m home” schtick and the more he sees lefty supporters blathering about how such a speech “has restored his stature” the further he’s going to fall, even if a speculator is there to break it.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Which brings us to this important point, has anyone seen John Key’s birth certificate. Just putting it out there as after all the left do need a new angle!
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:57 am
Deomcrats do something dodgey????? OMG say it isn’t so slightly. Right there is half the problem. Their track record of the dead voting and other shady dealings is why those focused on the illrelivant nonissue of his birth wont let go.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:01 am
joana failed to fill in the the three entry box registration form incorrectly so I’m hardly going to trust her judgement on something that completely doesn’t matter one little bit.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Tom, have you seen the clip? Oprah asked him about it, he made a joke or two and immediately started talking about the economy and how ridiculous it was that the BC stuff was news when there were serious decisions to be made, and being made, about the economy.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:12 am
If Obama was a radical Muslim why didn’t he run in England?
He would have breezed in.
Since the mid 1970′s no one has ever cared where you came from.
Welcome in brothers and sisters to the land of plenti…full drugs and UB40.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:16 am
He could’ve just produced this two years ago. Yet another case of Obama just drifting along aimlessly when he could be front-footing an issue
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Ryan – I have seen the clip. Do you really think that any other sitting President with these problems would have regarded Oprah as the forum for economic discussion? You saw her follow-up questions? What’s next, The View?
Michele was there too, along with the big background poster of the two of them hand in hand. It’s part of modern campaigning, which is Obama’s only real skill.
But don’t try and kid me that it’s also evidence of gravitas and seriousness in governing. If he’d immediately gone from the presser to a closed-door session with Bernanke, Boehner, Ryan and Reid I’d be more inclined to think that.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:25 am
Redbirther is still among us!
http://truebluenz.com/2011/04/29/david-farrar-brackets-eligibility-campaigners-with-truthers/
Quoted for lolz:
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:26 am
If he had been invalid as president would the Dems get to sell the presidency to the highest bidder like they tried to do with his senate seat?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Wow everybody’s brainwashed EXCEPT joana
That speaks volumes
Hey joana
Vote:Do you have any real political points of view instead of this inane BS?
April 29th, 2011 at 11:30 am
“Did the left ever say that their harassment of Richard Nixon, who eventually had to retire, ”
…because after all, in his own words, he was not a crook!
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:33 am
I say we hit the left with every damn thing we’ve got…
But when most of every damn he’s got is crazy crap like birtherism – sorry, eligibility to be considered a US citizen because of his skin or party colour – then it’s easy to see why he’s not taken seriously outside of a small rabble of rants.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:54 am
“Maybe now people will STFU on this issue. It has been the right wing equivalent of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists on the left.”
What evidence do you have David that supports the nearly 1500 verified architects and engineering professionals who are
demanding of Congress a truly independent investigation into the ‘collapse’ of the World Trade Centre ‘Twin Towers’ and WTC building 7 (which was not even hit by a ‘plane’ and just..errrrr……….. FELL DOWN?) are ‘conspiracy theorists’ – not to mention – from the ‘left’?
Have you actually read what their concerns are about the ‘official’ story, and why they are demanding that Congress carry out a truly independent investigation?
(Remembering that the heat given off by burning airline fuel – kerosene is 990 degrees centigrade – but the melting point of steel is 1550 990 degrees centigrade?
Which is why when you fire up your kerosene heater – (made of mild steel) – it doesn’t melt?
http://www.ae911truth.org/
1,491 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 11,836 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
The petition is open to everyone.
As seen in this revealing photo, the Twin Towers’ destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of destruction by explosives:
1. Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly free-fall acceleration
2. Improbable symmetry of debris distribution
3. Extremely rapid onset of destruction
4. Over 100 first responders reported explosions and flashes
5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally
6. Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking
7. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds
8. 1200-foot-diameter debris field: no “pancaked” floors found
9. Isolated explosive ejections 20–40 stories below demolition front
10. Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame
11. Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises
12. Evidence of thermite incendiaries found by FEMA in steel samples
13. Evidence of explosives found in dust samples
And exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:
1. Slow onset with large visible deformations
2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, intact, from the point of plane impact, to the side most damaged by the fires)
3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer-lasting fires have never collapsed.
WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:
1. Rapid onset of collapse
2. Sounds of explosions at ground floor – a second before the building’s destruction
3. Symmetrical “structural failure” – through the path of greatest resistance – at free-fall acceleration
4. Imploded, collapsing completely, and landed in its own footprint
5. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds
6. Expert corroboration from the top European controlled demolition professional
7. Foreknowledge of “collapse” by media, NYPD, FDNY
In the the aftermath of WTC7′s destruction, strong evidence of demolition using incendary devices was discovered:
8. FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples
9. Several tons of molten metal reported by numerous highly qualified witnesses
10. Chemical signature of the incendiary thermite found in solidified molten metal, and dust samples
WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:
1. Slow onset with large visible deformations
2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires)
3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never collapsed.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 29th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
FFS Penny, you don’t have to melt structural steel to fail it. We’ve been over this before.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Pete, it’s not and never has been about Obama being a US citizen, he is that because of his mother. The question always was is he a “natural born citizen”. The exact qualifications for being a NBC have never been precisely defined, but they’re reasonably obviously not exactly the same as those for being a citizen. The most likely requirement is to be born in the USA (hence the issue of the long-form certificate), although it could also require two US citizen parents, the constitution doesn’t define NBC, but it does require it. It’s been a convenient stick to beat Obama with, sure, but it couldn’t have ever really got off the ground if the original information wasn’t concealed in the first place. Recall, it was the Clinton campaign that first got onto this issue anyway, but concluded that they couldn’t make anything of it.
This latest copy of the long form has already been attacked as a fake because of how the originally posted copy presents in Illustrator, however I believe that there is enough evidence to show that if you scan to PDF then optimize the image, the optimization process itself creates numerous layers in an attempt to maximally compress the image. There are other points raised, the name of the hospital (supposedly the name on the certificate wasn’t used until 1978, but that is disputed), the certificate number is said to be out of order (uncertain), and the layering does seem quite selective. However presumably these are all empirically testable (for example why not allow the examination of the raw microfilm copy and/or certificates for babies born either side of Obama) and any issues could be readily disposed of, if it was in the interests of those involved on both sides to clear them up.
And you’re right, strictly construed a number of potential candidates could be excluded by the NBC rule; including McCain who was not born in the USA (and Congress has no ability to remedy that), Jindal, Romney, and of course Trump himself as you point out. In the past Chester Arthur was almost certainly not eligible although he served, albeit as a “promoted” VP rather than directly elected. His eligibility was seriously questioned at the time but he served out his term and did not seek re-election so the issue was not resolved.
I too incline to the view that this was a long running ploy to game the opposition, however I’m inclined to think that it has not ultimately worked particularly well now that Trump forced the Obama team to open up on the data. Under Trump’s urging, Obama began to look unreliable, and now this “game” has been exposed I don’t think it disperses that impression. He is also vulnerable now to calls for him to release the rest of his personal information like college records etc, with further refusals reinforcing the unreliability message. There may of course be no surprises in any of the records, but who knows. The ploy has been exposed and exhausted very early in any campaign.
No other recent president has concealed information like Obama, and no other has ever had such a free ride about such secrecy. Interesting to see how it plays out.
Of course, it might just be yet a more convoluted ploy to strengthen Trump as a GOP candidate. Trump is such a joke that I can’t see why Obama wouldn’t prefer to meet him in a campaign. But is Trump really likely anyway to get the GOP nomination ?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Seriously Penny, that is one of the most retarded comments this engineer has ever seen.
Turn your kerosene heater on its side, so that the flames actually play on the metal. Then stack bricks up on top of it until the stresses in the steel are about 25% of the level that would start to yield (bend) the steel at normal temperatures. If you don’t know how to do this, you might like to think twice about voicing your half-baked ideas about fire engineering in public. But I suspect you won’t.
[FWIW - Structural steel members start to go plastic and suffer large deformations (leading to failure of connections and hence, structural collapse) well below "the melting point" but I don't suppose your retarded little head troubles itself with such details too much either.]
Apologies for off-topic.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
ciaron
That’s what THEY want you to believe.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
Penny there is something about your posts which make them really unatttractive to read.
It could be content of course, but maybe try double spacing or more defined paragraphs.
Just trying to help.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Trump looks like a total clown.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
@RRM it’s not feeding time.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
RRM
Not off topic at all. I think DF opened the door on that line of derangement when he made the 9/11 conspiracy comparison. All this is his fault now. I hope he doesn’t make the same mistake again.
I must say that I was very disappointed that the stupid woman is urging everyone to turn on their kerosene heaters and thereby further deplete the planet’s resources and contribute to global warming purely for the sake of her desire to try to score a point.
BTW, good point about the placenta. Someone else’s suggestion about digging his mother up was a good one to. WE NEED THE EVIDENCE to prove that he hasn’t been POS for the last couple of years.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
hubbers
If it looks like a clown, talks like a clown and combs its hair like a clown ….
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Bobbie – it is the content. Lipstick on a pig and all that.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Murray –
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Two articles on the important, serious stuff that will actually sink Obama.
The first is an article that looks at the micro-effects of what is happening in the US economy now – Obamaflation arrives. I’m surprised the writer would be so adamant that Obama will lose in 2012 when there is every chance that the stupid party will screw up their opposition. But certainly in terms of what is hitting the day-to-day lives of Americans who don’t give a damn about politics, Obama has unsolvable problems – unsolvable because they’re the result of policies he supported, thinking they would work, and unsolvable in the time frame to November 2012.
Linked to that is a piece that looks at the macro effects of all this and although it’s less personal it’s actually more frightening –
Crappy days are here again:
I’m one of the most optimistic people, especially about the USA, but this is not going to end well for anybody. That Obama’s dreams from his father will be one of the casualties fills me with not one moment of joy.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
But is Trump really likely anyway to get the GOP nomination ?
Logic suggests he hasn’t got a chance, but there are stranger than normal things happening in US politics. You never know, there could be a lot of Americans who think the US should waltz into Libya and take over all their oil.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Pete, I guess it is possible, but I’m not even sure he’s serious about running. I have this suspicion that he’s running as a rabbit for someone, but who I’m not sure ! He’s not really a republican type, and he’s certainly not a “Tea Party” candidate although he has been trying to appeal to certain parts of that demographic, but not really. He’s really a better fit as a parody of such a candidate, he acts almost like how a more extreme democrat would see a Tea Party candidate behaving. On this line see the “Doonesbury” cartoon series on him where he supposedly brings in Sarah Palin as his media manager, a typical “Liberal” wank-fest idea and intended surely to tar Palin with the Donald’s craziness.
Trump is essentially a show-biz/media star, maybe that’s what he is, acting out a role for someone ? Taken seriously his proposed policies are surely just too far out to be taken seriously. It would certainly be a worry if he was serious, and if selected as the GOP candidate could be a certain way to re-elect Obama, although if we’re going to be that crazy maybe he could appeal to the audaciousness of hope’n'change himself and win.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
RRM (3,380) Says:
April 29th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Which is why when you fire up your kerosene heater – (made of mild steel) – it doesn’t melt?
Seriously Penny, that is one of the most retarded comments this engineer has ever seen.”
Really RRM?
So the comments made by nearly 1500 verified architects and engineers for 9/11 Truth are equally ‘retarded’ – are they?
If you are such a CLEVER engineer (whoever YOU are ‘RRM’) – why don’t you contact the ‘retards’ and ‘conspiracy theorists’ and debate from your vastly superior knowledge base – with them?
http://www.ae911truth.org/
Go on!
Challenge them in the form of an ‘Open Letter’?
You obviously have insights about basic laws of physics that these nearly 1500 engineering ‘retards’ do not – so – why keep all this knowledge you have to yourself?
Do the engineering world a favour!
SHARE!
Do keep us all informed at Kiwiblog as to how you get on………..
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 29th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
911 and birther moonbats
All we need now are the faked moon landing dickheads and we have a full set
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@ penny 1154am.
Yes Penny all those visual and audible indicators, and not only that…they could see it from the space station!!!
I have read some bollocks in my time but this takes the cake.
Yes I am qualified to say so..No I do not have time to rebut nonsense, I have a real job.
FFS I despair.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
You mean the moon landings weren’t faked?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
I chuckled at a quote from another website contained in this LA Times piece
The main link also further highlights Obama’s seriousness in his schedule that saw him fly from the Oprah gig to Manhattan for three fundraisers, at which he raised the BC controversy a further three times.
He’s serious about being reelected.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
Why didn’t he just produce it in the first place?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Birthers are nuts, as is Penny. This is one of the most hilarious interviews ever:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42791137
Re 9/11, I loved the “transcript” DPF posted a while back:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/08/the_911_conspiracy_exposed.html
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@lofty
The top explosives expert in the US pointed out that the 911 demolition conspiracy was nonsense and he carefully pointed out why.
He, is family and his employees all how receive death threats.
It just aint worth engaging logic with the illogical. They need something like a vast conspiracy to help them cope with their inane lives of quiet desperation
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
@ Penny; so all those videos of planes flying into the WTC are fakes then?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
…. and the seriousness continues …
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
I’m with Adze 532, now that Trump has finished insulting the President perhaps he could try a bit of glasnost himself and prove his hair isn’t fake.
Vote:Treat trivia with trivia.
April 29th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Just look for the Trump Roast on youtube if you want to see his hair and the various other ridiculous things about Trump brought to light.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
No Grumpy
Vote:Wrong James
Love your logic Lab
What I really want to know is why hasn’t he had his head chopped off for being an apostate? The only answer I can come up with is that the muslims know he is still a muslim? They have been busy lately chopping Christian’s tongues out in Nigeria so they still have the means.
And again , who funded his so called education and why?
April 29th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
“What I really want to know is why hasn’t he had his head chopped off for being an apostate?”
I’m guessing the secret service is there to stop that sort of thing.
I’m sorry joana, like Ms Bright you are proof that access to the internet and the ability to type really don’t equate to the ability to reason. I liked you better when I thought you were a parody.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
KG I have no need for you to like me; I just wish you would read a bit more widely.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Nice to see the most powerful people in the most powerful country focusing on the big issues. What’s surprised me is how long it is taking for US politicians to sink their ship. They are completely out of control, completely insulated from economic reality, have been for some time, yet America just keeps going. When default comes it will be quick and extremely painful for all of us.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
To all and sundry. I suppose the very sad thing about American politics is that they are even concerned about whether or not Barack Obama was born in the United States or is indeed a citizen thereof. There are lots more issues, such as his handling of the recession, how he has handled Medicare reform and other much greater issues. However, having seen how Trump works, there is little surprise in his attacks on Obama. He might be good at making loads of money from Real Estate deals, but I don’t rate him in any other way.
With regard to the World Trade Centre issue: the momentum of a fully loaded 747 is quite large. Having watched the second one ploughing into the second tower on live TV, I would say that it caused a significant amount of damage to the structure. As well, the steel beams were not correctly covered with fire proof insulation during construction. As well, we don’t have to worry about the ignition point of kerosene being hot enough to melt steel. What about the fact that the aircraft was made almost entirely of Aluminium, which has a low ignition point, but a very high burning temperature. As I watched the video of the tower collapsing, I see no evidence of an explosion or explosions at all, and the concrete would naturally have disintegrated, both as the tower collapsed and further as it hit the ground, and the steel members would have been wrenched apart. I would suggest you watch the footage of the CTV building, which was only a 6 or 7 storey building and see what happened to the concrete in that. However, if you still believe the conspiracy theories, I have a bridge for sale, going cheap.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
It bears repeating: It doesn’t matter where Obama was born. There is no stipulation in the US Constitution saying a President must be born in the USA. They need only be over 35, have lived in the US for 14 years, and be a “natural born” citizen.
The Constitution delegates the task of determining citizenship to Congress, and they have stated through US Federal Law 8 USC 1401(g) that the following is a citizen at birth ie. a natural born citizen:
a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years
Stanley Ann Durham, Obama’s mother, fits these criteria, and thus qualifies him to serve whether he was born in Hawaii, or Timbucktoo. The birth certificate issue was, still is, and will stay, a complete red herring.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
A couple of years from now I’ll produce a birth certificate showing I was born in the US… just give me time !
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
Never been a ‘birther’ as there are so many more important issues, so I had hoped Obama’s release of his birth certificate yesterday would finally put the issue to rest.
However, first rule of journalism, go to primary source documents. Try it sometime, David.
Highlight, copy and paste to a new doc the image of the birth certificate from the White House website itself,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf
All sorts of anomalies appear which beg further questions. Does anyone know whether the change in colour, added numbers etc, is normal for a birth certificate pdf?
And the more important issues? 911 truth, for one. Sad that 911truth debunkers on this page choose to insult rather than inform. Seek primary source documents on 911 and the truth becomes clear.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Oh, and of course, Obama is a Christian, in the sense that I am a Christian. His mother is a Christian, and he attends church occasionally. However, what if he is a Muslim? So what? It isn’t illegal to be a Muslim in the US, and a great deal of US citizens are in fact Atheists, outnumbering the Jews. I would suggest that the reason why people think that he is a muslim is simply because his father was a black African and he attended a muslim school in Indonesia. Whilst that probably gives him a better understanding of other beliefs, it is hardly something that makes him a muslim. In any case it could be worse, he could be Catholic or Jewish.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Joana: I’m not quite sure why you wonder about Barack Obama’s education. He clearly has a superior intellect to his immediate predecessor, and I do believe that his maternal grand parents might have had something to do with the funding. Barack Obama, his education and the fact that he is quite entitled to be the President of the United States of America, by the fact that his mother’s citizenship qualifies him, demonstrate that you are unaware of even basic facts about him entitlement. That unfortunately is the case with most of his detractors and even more unfortunately doesn’t prevent them from voting.
He no doubt also has a U.S. passport and has served in the Illinois legislature and was recognised there as one of the best and most intelligent state legislators of his time. All of these demonstrate that he is clearly and admirably suited to his current position. You could compare him to some of his predecessors, such as Ronald Reagan (qualifications as President – B-movie actor) and George W. Bush (complete dickhead). I have to ask though, imagine Sarah Palin being the U.S. President. She though she was able to see Russia from Alaska. Oh dear!
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Do you have to show your passport when you get on Air Force One? Or do they just assume that someone else has already done it further down the line…
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Ed Snack>In the past Chester Arthur was almost certainly not eligible although he served, albeit as a “promoted” VP rather than directly elected.
There was also Hiram Revels, Republican and the first black senator in the US. The Democrats delayed his taking office, arguing that he didn’t have nine years citizenship because black people had only been granted citizenship two years earlier.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
GJKiwi>I have to ask though, imagine Sarah Palin being the U.S. President. She though she was able to see Russia from Alaska. Oh dear!
You’re actually thinking of a sketch character created by Tina Fey. Do you often confuse TV characters with real people?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Fey (acting as Palin) said: “I can see Russia from my house.”
Palin did say: “They’re our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska”
when asked about her international knowledge.
Palin was correct, you can see a very remote part of Russia from a very remote part of Alaska, effectively demonstrating she had a remote idea something existed outside the US. If you watch the whole interview clips she sounds a lot worse than the “from my house” quip.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Davidp: No, not often. However, here is a real Sarah Palin quote: “But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies.” –Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck’s radio show, Nov. 24, 2010
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Gambit?
Would a reasonable (and prudent) man spend $2 million of other peoples money to avoid going to court?
He (OB1) released this because he is being viewed increasingly as unreliable and the $2 million just adds a cherry on top of all the other factors, especially with ordinary Americans having to watch their cents.
GJKiwi
Constitutional eligibility is not a technicality; it really does matter.
BlairM
His Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4, 1982!
What about his Indonesian citizenship and use of an Indonesian passport?
http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html
The historian’s definition of natural born comes from Vattel’s Law of Nations, but relies on the entire body of work: 1) As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights; 2) The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; 3) To be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.
It was one reason that we did not allow MP’s with dual citizenship until Clark’s Labour Party retrospectively changed the law to protect Harry Dunneovan.
joana (558) Says:
April 29th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Ed Snack (411) Says:
April 29th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
tom hunter (1,748) Says:
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
April 29th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Before you say that I commend to your attention “Obama: Culture of Corruption” by Michelle Malkin to learn something about the Messiah’s “achievements” in Illinois and his presidency.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Pete George: yes, only on a technicality, as the actual distance from the two mainlands is 55miles, and yes, you possibly could see something at that distance, but it would be very obscure. And from Little Diomede (Alaska) to Big Diomede (Russia), as you can see from Alaska to Russia as the distance is the distance is 3.5 miles.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Oh dear
Vote:Looting and pillaging Russian hoards within eyesight.
Bloody good reason to buy a few more guns.
April 29th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
I’m glad the full BC is out – it was such a distraction and it had the potential to backfire on the GOP especially with Trump being so vocal about it. I’ve debated Redbaiter on the likely reaons for Obama hiding it for so long (Ann Durham his mother remarried the Indonesian Soetero and I had assumed he’d adopted Obama and Obama didnt want the public to see his Indonesian adopted name) but I was wrong. I was always convinced that he was born in Hawaii -something Redbaiter berated me for. No hint of him backing down on his blog – 1st he claimed Obama was still inelegible with a Kenyan father (WRONG) then he claimed he lied that the short form certificate released by his campaign was the only BC when all Obama said was it was the only BC now legal in Hawaii (CORRECT – it took the state to make an exception to release the vault COLB).
Various Birthers are still alleging fraud from a curvature in the page (it was copied from the state’s bound volume), to a difference hospital name (its name was changed – easy to find on Google) to the multiple layers of the PDF file (standard with any scanning of a document like that). The pro Clinton blogger Texas Darlin (who was one of the earlier researchers on the BC issue) still maintains there’s a sealed 2nd COLB with his adopted Indonesian name and she maintains that’s hidden due to a possible claim of dual citizenship. The famous Kenyan mother claim of his birth in Kenya was in a response to a mistranslated question that she subsequently corrected. All SOTUS cases brought challenging Obama’s right to hold office over unproven citizenship issues have all been thrown out even by the most conservative Justices like Roberts and Scalia.
Birthers – let it go – move on. Lets fight Obama on his lousy policies not his eligibility. He’s the President – lets defeat him at the ballot box the old fashioned way!
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
“at free-fall acceleration”
This is the one that gets me. In the videos of the collapses, you can see debris from the top of the building falling at free-fall speed much much faster than the building itself fell. If these people can ignore what you can see with their own eyes, you’ll never convince them.
Another favourite of mine is that WTC 7 fell even though it was hit my anything. Among all the debris that enveloped the building, it was hit by a 12 FLOOR SECTION OF WTC 1. But it only count if it was hit by a plane. Or is it a drone flown by remote control by the Jews? It’s hard to keep track.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
wasn’t hit by anything* The tinfoil is blinding me
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Which might be a little easier to believe if had not kept almost all his predecessor’s foreign and domestic policies – except where they speak Austrian of course.
Still, for the likes of GJKiwi it will always be 2008: hope and change baby, hope and change.
And in the spirit of people deeply invested in a rich fantasy life, here’s the ever quotable Obi-Wan Kenobi:
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Mick Mac -
The historian’s definition of natural born comes from Vattel’s Law of Nations, but relies on the entire body of work
That has only minor bearing on the legal definition. In the US, Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power “To establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization”. It has done so, and its definition supercedes any other precedent.
It is highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would uphold such a precedent when it runs contrary to the powers given to Congress under the US Constitution. Moreover there is nothing in the Constitution regarding joint citizenship, or barring people with joint citizenship from holding office. The Founding Fathers were regarded by the UK as British Subjects, so any such stipulation would have been impossible to have made to work.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
DPF, if you had gone to the Whitehouse website yesterday, like I did; downloaded Obama’s “Birth Certificate” from that official site; opened it in Illustrator and saw that it was composed of many layers in cropping boxes, so they you could move elements around (names, dates, signatures etc), and even make the green background disappear completely, wouldn’t you be skeptical?
I sure was, and am, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to STFU about it; in fact, I think Obama’s only made things much worse for himself by releasing an obvious fake.
As joanna pointed out, there’s the question of why he spent millions hiding this and his passport records, kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, University of Chicago articles, Illinois State Bar Association records, Illinois State Senate records and schedules, medical records, Obama/Dunham marriage license, Obama/Dunham divorce documents, Soetoro/Dunham marriage license and adoption records.
What’s he got to hide? I’m thinking perhaps he was a little more honest in previous writing about how he feels about the country he is now president of.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Do you realise you are making a complete fool of yourself Fletch?
The birth certificate has been released, the issue is dead and buried, why not move on to attacking the polices of Obama now given there is so much you can do to damage his fading credibility by focusing on his failing presidency.
You people just cannot grasp that you are handing the man another term by continuing to attack him on stupid things like the birth certificate.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
GJKiwi, as one of the more truthful women pointed out on The View, Bush had just as good as Harvard education as Obama, and Bush isn’t stupid. That’s just a media narrative you’re foolishly buying into.
That sure shut her up….
MORE
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
big bruv, it has NOT been released. That thing I downloaded and looked at is an obvious forgery FFS.
Can’t you understand that? I opened the thing, and (to misquote 2001: A Space Odyssey) said, “My God, it’s full of layers!”
As far as I can remember, Obama was born Barry Soetero and changed his name later on.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Lance
Vote:So anyone who expresses a view contrary to your own is expressing insane B/S? What school did you go to ? I would be asking for a refund.
And to whoever said Obama has a superior intellect..wow ..where do you get this shite?
You would think if they were going to produce a forgery they would produce a good forgery. They could have got a much better forgery in almost any town or city in Asia. Plenty of great Asian forgeries floating around NZ these days.
Obama’s cousin is currently screwing Kenya. He is like Obama in that he is a Christian one day , a muslim the next. Kenya is 80 per cent Christian but he has already promises the muslims sharia law.
April 29th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
I’m betting that after Obama has finished being POTUS – maybe shortly after, or maybe quite a while – we’ll all find out the truth about Mr “Let-Me-Be-Clear”, and it won’t be pretty. Watch the media turn on him then like a pack of rabid dogs.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Fletch, the layers thing has been explained, the hospital name has been explained, everything has been explained over and over but it’s a bit of a waste of time, some simply don’t want to believe so won’t believe Obama was born no matter what they are told and what evidence they are shown.
And many of these same people believe with the same blind insistence things that may or may not have happened a couple of thousand years ago and for which there is zero evidence.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:27 pm
PDF layers.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@joana
I actualy wrote inane but I think you are closer to the mark with ‘insane’.
Whatever else you are driveling on about I can’t fathom?
It may be just ‘ feeding the trolls’ but I never said I supported Obama. What I previously said was this sort of birth certificate nonsense is an idiotic side show and BS
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
cha, I still don’t buy it. As commentators point out at your link –
and
I’m still very, very skeptical. I’ve never seen a document scanned in do that.
Vote:Also, why the obvious green border around the outside that’s not part of the actual document? You can see where the paper bends at the side, and where green patterning has been added.
April 29th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
http://www.lynda.com/Adobe-training-tutorials/105-0.html
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
Also: A new era of innuendo.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 8:48 pm
DPF> Maybe now people will STFU on this issue.
(108 comments later)
Vote:And the Understandably Wishful Thinking, But Sadly Doomed to Failure Award goes to…
April 29th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
There are many much more important questions left begging on this topic.
Who put Obama up to this?
How many collaborated with him in this con trick of the century?
Who bribed all those state employees to plant this obvious forgery?
And bribed them again to stay silent?
Has anyone looked for suspicious deaths of employees in Hawaii’s birth registry office?
Is it a Muslim plot?
Is it Jewish plot?
Is the Pope behind it?
So many questions.
So much water to yet flow under this bridge.
Personally, I think it is all down to that second assassin on the grassy knoll, moving on to a greater challenge.
Why kill someone when you can own him?
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 10:49 pm
How come it says “African” for his father’s race when the common parlance for those documents then for Africans, was “Negro?”
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
reid, while I’m not sure if it is actually correct that the term used was Negro, outside of the slave owning states, perhaps, Hawaii was an island and an indigenous people conquered and colonised by the US, so perhaps its people have a more sympathetic view of other victims of western rapacity.
And enough respect for fellow humans to not use a derogatory term on a birth certificate.
I don’t know. Just wondering.
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
1. Negros were black Americans (i.e. descended from slaves). His father was African.
2. If my name was Barrack, I’d get my friends at school (in that era) to call me Barry.
3. The PDF is multiple layers because they OCR them all to make the database searchable, then add a layer of the “black-white-thresholded” text that was used as characters in the OCR system. (Sort of like how Google Books can yellow-highlight old publications.)
If someone can prove that no other birth certificate from that year says “African” I’ll eat my own birth certificate. If you aren’t familiar with the worldwide custom of nicknames, then you need to get some friends.
And I think they did the PDF is layers just to make the birthers invent stupid theories and make them seem like greater idiots than they already do!
Vote:April 29th, 2011 at 11:19 pm
And enough respect for fellow humans to not use a derogatory term on a birth certificate. I don’t know. Just wondering.
Yes the point is Luc [and tristan], P.C. Psychobabble wasn’t about in 1961 thank fuck and with no disrepect to our fellow African human beings, the word “negro” was there, in common usage, plain as day, without a thought.
Now pretending that 1961 was like pixey-land where evewyone was wuverwy doesn’t make 1961 history actually like that.
I’m sorry, but it’s true.
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 12:11 am
kiwi in america hell the more USA conservatives who will swear they are rational go on the better it is.
One blogger wants Obamas mother dug up for a DNA check, whats the betting that 50 % of Conservatives will believe it is a damn good idea.
The term have you no honour Sirs comes to mind.
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 12:16 am
He must of been born in Africa.
He is to dumb to have picked the US as his place of birth.
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 12:26 am
One blogger wants Obamas mother dug up for a DNA check, whats the betting that 50 % of Conservatives will believe it is a damn good idea. The term have you no honour Sirs comes to mind.
Yes but that is not our fault, grumpy.
If there was a band heading toward Obama’s mums grave intent on digging her up, performing some zombie ceremony then, hiding her in a WH closet in order to implant a “sleeper” agent, it still wouldn’t be our fault.I told you not to say that. Crikey.
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 7:53 am
Johnboy that sounds dumber than Africa at midnight.
Where were all the birthers born? Were they smart enough to pick their own birthplace?
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Wow lance you know the difference between inane and insane. I take that back about your school.
Vote:As Fletch has so ably demonstrated the questions swirling around Obama or is that Soetoro are far more numerous than just the questions about his birth certificate. Anyone who thinks it is just about the birth certificate is being myopic.
What did he do in Pakistan? Why did it all start happening for him after his trip to Pakistan? Why didn’t he travel there on an American passport? What passport did he travel on? Kenyan? Indonesian? Does he have dual/triple citizenships?
Who are the mullahs who paid for his education? Why did they pay for his education?
Anyone up with his new hate preacher? Anyone familiar with the rantings of Jeremiah Wright?
The questions just keep on coming.
April 30th, 2011 at 9:39 am
Obama is alleged to have committed social security card fraud in the early 1980s. This issue is more serious than the birth certificate. I hope that someone would dig deep into that allegation. Obama is a comedian/bozo. Donald Trump is correct that the Obama never did a deal in his life. It means that he has no clue in how to run a country with a population as massive as the US. Obama is claimed to be a constitutional lawyer/professor but as Judge Napolitano had said many times on Fox News that the way Obama has acted during his 2 years in office is like someone who has no clue about the US constitution. Obama is a dumb-ass. Look no further than his explanation of how the economy should run.
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Obama is also alleged to be the Messiah. No point in digging deep on that allegation though, there is as much evidence of that as there is of the first Messiah.
Many people are correct, Donald Trump has no idea how to run a country either, not even Libya.
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 9:53 am
“Donald Trump is correct that the Obama never did a deal in his life. It means that he has no clue in how to run a country with a population as massive as the US.”
Thing is, nobody can “run” a country.
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 11:14 am
Wat said…
Thing is, nobody can “run” a country.
That’s correct. People can run their own and they don’t need the government to tell them how to live theirs. The government should be there to defend its’ citizens rights and that’s it. The government shouldn’t try to run peoples’ lives. But Obama thinks he is there to run people’s lives, like taxing the rich or making laws to make it harder for private businesses to run theirs and creating jobs. The more hands-offs approach by a government in trying to run people’s lives, the better, because people can organize themselves where cooperation & competitions amongst individuals thus arise as emergent properties of societies and Hayek call this self-organization. Donald Trump has shown that he is good in self-organization on a smaller scale (businesswise).
Vote:April 30th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Yeah sure, with his fathers money and connections and corporate welfare. He’s a serial bankrupt who’s been reduced to hawking his ‘you can be a millionaire’ ghost written bullshit on paid for tv and putting his name to other peoples ideas. He’s advertising steak on home shopping programmes and put his name on a menswear line. He routinely insults people and pays lip service to ‘free enterprise’ while suggesting a return to huge tariffs.
Vote:Trump is an embarrassment and if he’s the best they can put forward as a candidate they’re fucked.
May 1st, 2011 at 7:59 am
PS, WND points out that Obama co-sponsored a bill in 2008 requiring McCain to have ‘natural born parents’ to qualify to be a candidate in the running for POTUS.
Pity that no one saw fit to use these very same criteria in regards to Obama himself – criteria he would failed to have met, as his father is NOT a natural born citizen, which the Constitution requires any Presidential candidates to be.
So really, all the releasing of the Birth Certificate has done is prove that Obama is not eligible, because of his father.
Vote:May 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am
Obama has never gotten out of campaign mode. The BC wasn’t held back to discredit his opposition, I doubt if another POTUS has had so much media scrutiny or has had to stump up publicly with a BC. I feel they were unready for the demands for the BC but have played out the resulting kerfuffle beautifully. The PDF version will get picked to pieces by the birthers too & the Dem’s will let it fire along nicely.
The birthers are, however nebulously, connected to the Repub’s (all opposition are Republicans even if they’re not) so….the Obama team have gotten what they wanted.
Anything to distract from the pressing issues which they are fucking up nicely.
I must say, I find the 9/11 conspiracy to be enormously silly.
Vote: