McCarten on Labour
April 10th, 2011 at 1:00 pm by David FarrarMatt McCarten writes in the HoS:
The major problem the Labour Party has is that it doesn’t seem able to look like they are trying to win.
It’s clear they are sleep-walking to defeat. They look tired and lacklustre.
Frankly, they look like a bunch of losers and it annoys me. Everyone knows the game plan is that, through a lack of an alternative option, they let Goff run until the election then replace him. Then supposedly they will make an effort for the elections in 2014.
That may well make sense, given that it’s plainly obvious they are a hopeless opposition, so why would anyone think they’re ready for government?
Ouch.
I look forward to its completed party list to see whether it promotes new and current talent and takes the cleaver to its non-performers.
Otherwise, it is simply rearranging the deck chairs on a ship that may well sink.
I hope for their supporters’ sakes they do the former.
The Labour list will be interesting. They actually did a pretty good job in 2008 of promoting new talent ahead of some of the existing caucus. They need to do that again.
Tags: Labour, Matt McCarten
April 10th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
The leaked list on “Gotcha” does not inspire anything. Because Goff’s leadership is so shaky he dare not offend anyone in his existing caucus. So they reward everyone who wants to hang on, including old has-beens like Steve Chadwick.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Would you like to ‘come out of’ Opposition at the moment to lead a Government, DPF?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Same old plot, same old storyline. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.
Can we have “Marilyn Monroe on Labour” next please?
Then we could start an entire new series featuring pregnant woman, only have to change the ”o” to an ”i’.
This blog is starting to resemble Days of Our Lives.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
And Mc Carten has a track record of success to base his opinions on?
Vote:Really, while I agree with the premise he is in no position to spout froth.
April 10th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
This blog is starting to look like a knocking shop. Why do people have to ”on” each other all the time?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
About the leaked list on gotcha.
Ruth Dyson is at number five? Wasn’t Goff trying to persuade her to, y’know, retire?
Parekura Horomia at number six? For god’s sake, why?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
If you’re going to quote McCarten with approval, then you should also have included the following:
“A Labour-led government is always better then a National-led government for ordinary people.”
“I still believe Goff has little chance of beating Key in eight months. It’s not fair. But John Key is just too popular, despite starting to show himself as a bit of a lightweight.”
Ouch.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
And Bill English today on Q+A saying so what if Kiwis leave for Aussie – remember lightweight at Westpac Stadium during the lead up to the last election bemoaning the fact that loads of kiwis are off overseas and remember the goal to catch Aussie – now that wages are on average 30% less here than in Aussie this has become an economic advantage! No plan National – costs are up and revenue down for tax cuts to the rich. Want to sell our most profitable SOE’s and end up with struggling companies whose free market ways have seen them fail – and we are all paying. Yep that ‘nice’ Mr Key is lightweight alright.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
If you’re going to quote McCarten with approval, then you should also have included the following:
“A Labour-led government is always better then a National-led government for ordinary people.”
“I still believe Goff has little chance of beating Key in eight months. It’s not fair. But John Key is just too popular, despite starting to show himself as a bit of a lightweight.”
Ouch.
The Latin term for this is selective hearing. My grandpa used to get it whenever we asked him to wash the dishes. It’s very common among extremely old, senile men. Even younger senile ones, I’m told. The symptoms are really sad, sufferers seem to spend a long time on a computer, even when they are out of the country.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
The Latin term for this is selective hearing. Mr grandpa used to get it whenever we asked him to wash the dishes. It’s very common among extremely old, senile men. Even younger senile ones, I’m told. The symptoms are really sad, sufferers seem to spend a long time on a computer, even when they are out of the country.
Another symptom is incontinent incoherent bile unleashed by their granddaughters.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
McCaretn is on to it. Labour don’t want to own the mess National are getting themeselves into and the new guard needs time to get itself established and take control of the party. They know NZers have an in-built expectation that the government will do everything (from cradle to grave)- they even pay for Catholic education in NZ and they know the middle classes see WFF as another tax rebate scheme.
With a government currently racking up a deficit of $2500 per person per year, they know that Key and English will need take risks so it will be easy for Little to pick off Key measure by measure in 2014 then come up with a range of bribes on the back of a CGT. National by then will have no partners left in coalition and everyone lining up to take them out.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Sorry Matt – I don’t share your considered opinion on this one.
In my view – it is POLICIES not PERSONALITIES that are going to be pivotal in this 2011 election.
Out in the Botany by-election Labour were campaigning all right, and their vote proportionately increased, while over 9000 (former?) National Party voters – didn’t.
Phil Goff was arguably a more effective campaigner than John Key out in the Botany by-election – the only ‘poll’ that counts.
‘Mr Popular’ Prime Minister John Key effectively BEGGED National party voters (who are normally a pretty conscientious lot when it comes to getting in their cars and turning up to the polling booths) to get out and vote, and was effectively given the fingers.
In my considered opinion, there is simply NO WAY that National expected the 36% voting turn out.
Where are those (former?) 9000 National Party votes going to go ?
Word on the ground is that NZ First is going to pick up a significant number………..
Mark my words – voters, including (ex?) National party voters have not had some form of collective frontal lobotomy.
We all get monthly power bills, which have done nothing but go up since the bad old ‘inefficient’ /’pre-Max Bradford / electricity reform, bad old days – when we could afford to have our heaters on.
How can the Mums and Dads’ who are struggling to pay their power bills going to afford to invest in ‘partially privatised’ power companies?
Support for assets sales, in my considered opinion, is one big fat election loser – and as Labour continue to campaign hard on their stated position of opposition to asset sales – in my view support will increase – as proportionately – it did in Botany.
You will notice how National have moved away from the politically poisonous ‘P’ word – PRIVATISATION?
‘Partial privatisation’ (like ‘partial’ pregnancy – there is no such thing) has been replaced with the more innocuous-sounding
‘mixed ownership’ model for State Owned Enterprises.
In my view – it is better not to buy into the corporate media and ‘spin doctors’ on this one, and not to be sucked into the negative corporate media campaign which is trying to undermine the main political party with a stated policy of opposition to asset sales.
In my view – by doing this – you are effectively just playing into the hands of those corporate interests who attempt get the government that the majority of them think will best represent THEIR interests – through corporate media manipulation.
As happened in the 2008 election with Winston Peters /NZ First.
(Evidence to support this is on my blog: http://waterpressure.wordpress.com )
Penny Bright
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Anthony Wedgewood Benn once said the media had no interest in politics, just politicians. He was right.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
metcalph (620) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
“The Latin term for this is selective hearing. Mr grandpa used to get it whenever we asked him to wash the dishes. It’s very common among extremely old, senile men. Even younger senile ones, I’m told. The symptoms are really sad, sufferers seem to spend a long time on a computer, even when they are out of the country.
Another symptom is incontinent incoherent bile unleashed by their granddaughters.”
Wouldn’t know about that, my grandfather had only grandsons. What about yours?
I get a feeling some of the Farrar groupies are starting to feel a tad uncomfortable. Its not pleasant to find your god has two left feet, both stuck in his mouth.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
I am extremely annoyed with Labour. So they expect to lose and no one has the balls to roll Goff be ause they don’t want to be the one who leads Labour to defeat.
All that tells me, a person who wants them to be an effective opposition, is they have no concern for anything but their own careers.
A person with any interest in representing New Zealanders and/or a point of view contrary to Nationals would roll Goff and take Labour to a possibly valiant but honest defeat flying their colours proudly.
But as they leave their party to wallow in incompetence and sleep it’s way to a deathly defeat I’ll remember it, I’ll remember they put their own ambitions ahead of their constituencys.
I wish Goff would resign and force them to step up. It’d be the best thing he could do for his party now that he’s lost everyone’s confidence.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Labour List released.
Vote:http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4869855/Labours-party-list-for-November-election
April 10th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
MeAnother symptom is incontinent incoherent bile unleashed by their granddaughters.
Maggie:Wouldn’t know about that, my grandfather had only grandsons. What about yours?
So why do you post under a girl’s name?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
I was born in Hawke’s Bay. Maggies are magpies, those black and white birds you find occasionally. Usually peaceful but can be quite angry when roused.
Why do you call yourself metcalph?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
# Fentex (42) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
I am extremely annoyed with Labour. So they expect to lose and no one has the balls to roll Goff be ause they don’t want to be the one who leads Labour to defeat.
…………………
But as they leave their party to wallow in incompetence and sleep it’s way to a deathly defeat I’ll remember it, I’ll remember they put their own ambitions ahead of their constituencys.
I wish Goff would resign and force them to step up. It’d be the best thing he could do for his party now that he’s lost everyone’s confidence.”
errrr – According to the Botany by-election results Phil Goff has not ‘lost everyone’s confidence’.
(You can’t believe everything you read in the papers or on the blogs
The one who appears to have lost significant electoral confidence, according to the Botany by-election result, is arguably National Party Prime Minister – (shonky?) John Key?
But do excuse me ‘Fentax’.
I do hope the FACTS haven’t disturbed your unsubstantiated MANTRA too much.
Probably not.
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
Once again why doesn’t he take it up with the labour strategists?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
We still like John Key best and we know he has far more depth and credibility than all these left-winger whingers.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
I do love the shit that is spouted, about the representation of ‘ordinary’ people. The ‘hard workers’. So, lets measure this up. Im currently making family dinner – mince on toast. I bought a cheap pack of mince today, cool
Breakfast for the 3 kids and I was mashed egg on toast, fruit. Lunch was rolls and made up at home. Played outside all day. My wife works part time.
So, am I ordinary? I have a mortgage, kids, a house. What defines me as ordinary, and or hard working? So lets test that.
Im an IT consultant. Currently working out of Auckland – I commute from the provinces by plane, fly up Monday, back Friday. I earn north of $1300 a day. Im also a company director, earn about $50K a year from that company. This tax year, about $400K, my wife about $80K. I work, at the moment, about 80 hours a week. So, I work hard. I do ordinary stuff, and no champagne on the menu tonight, like most nights. I drive a 6 year old car, my wife the same. A Falcon, nothing flash. But, the left despise me. Why? Because I work hard? No, probably not. Probably because Im a rich prick. Was born and raised in wildest Northcote on the Shore, worked hard all my life, and I pay a huge amount of tax.
And I will vote National for one reason alone – because Im allowed to keep more of my hard earned, and not see it pissed away on fruitless social experimentation. So McCarten, et al, Im sorry, but fuck you. You represent the hard working? No, you dont. You represent the too damned lazy to work hard for themselves, so expect the boss and everyone else to hand it to them. Screw you. Im off to have mince on toast with the kids
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
# BeaB (730) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
We still like John Key best and we know he has far more # BeaB (730) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
We still like John Key best and we know he has far more depth and credibility than all these left-winger whingers.
than all these left-winger whingers.”
BeaB – don’t know who exactly the ‘we’ is, but after the Botany by-election think the numbers are more ‘wee’ than ‘we’?
‘depth and credibility’?
I’m sure that as an ex-Wall Street banker and corporate raider, Prime Minister John Key has certainly got a lot of ‘depth’; when it comes to looking after himself and his rich corporate mates?
Think that the Tranz Rail episode helped to prove that?
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Nice to see PhilU’s punctuation has improved.
The sex change has certainly improved his grammar.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
In my opinion, Macacacarten has never been worth reading. He dishes out his weekly dose of tripe.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
hmmokrightitis
So McCarten, et al, Im sorry, but fuck you. You represent the hard working? No, you dont. You represent the too damned lazy to work hard for themselves, so expect the boss and everyone else to hand it to them.”
errrr…………. who would you employ then, if everyone worked for themselves?
(Small technical point ‘ONE’ of the ‘commonsense’ variety?
Following on…………. isn’t it the selling of the products/services that are made by the employees – that produces the money from which the wages are paid?
(Small technical point ‘TWO ‘ of the ‘commonsense’ variety?
Following on…………. how much money would the ‘boss’ make it all the workers stayed home and no products or services were then produced?
(Small technical point ‘THREE ‘ of the ‘commonsense’ variety?
Maybe you’re just having a bad day ‘hmmokrightitis-’ enjoy your mince on toast with your kids.
Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
“Wouldn’t know about that, my grandfather had only grandsons. What about yours?”
Really Maggie? And there you were on the recent abortion thread saying that no one has right to tell you what to do with your womb. Perhaps you are a little confused. Or full of “bull puckey” to use your own words.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Dear Penny.
I try to keep an open mind as I read the varying political discourse here. I understand you have a viewpoint. You may have won a few court cases here and there, all done with no legal training. But your spin on the events of the day, equating Botany as a win for the left for example, in my eyes tend to qualify you as a moonbat of the highest order.
This is DPFs blog, If you wish to threadjack topics of discussion to suit your own ends, it is up to him to moderate these inane rantings. That he does not is to his credit, and your detriment. You won’t change minds here as much as we posting on your blog will change yours.
Personally I think that your conduct here marks you as nothing more than a public nuicance. Please go away.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Penny,
Point one: Many people do work for themselves – try a great many tradesmen and, also, many contractors in the IT industry. It seems to work very well for those that choose to extend themselves and take on the risk of their own business and continued earning.
Point two: those employees would not be producing anything unless there was first a business to provide them with employment to do just that.
Point three: In the extreme, Penny, nobody would earn anything (or they would all be on the dole.) If the workers choose to abstain from work, the employers can always source that labour from elsewhere – including moving their business offshore. Which helps none of us at all Penny – the worst possible outcome of all. Well championed!
Work on the logic Penny – your rationale is seriously flawed
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Thanks bhudson, just saved me 5 minutes of typing
Really Penny, it wasnt THAT hard to comprehend, was it?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Given the amount of comments Penny has made on this site recently, I was surprised she only has a little over 200 comments. It is like she has just found this site. At the end of the day she is just looking for attention. When her comments here can no longer massage her ego, she will leave. Lets see how long that will take!
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
When you look at Labours list remember that 22 Labour drongos who lost an electorate or never even stood came in on the list in 2008 . Every constituency that National wins means one more Labour loser List MP still gets in. Bugger MMP. The only solution to avoiding these noxious people is to Party Vote National. Every rise in Party Vote National by 0.83% means one less Labour list member I think, but happy to be corrected. National in 2008 got 44.93%. Just imagine if National gets 48.93% That could mean 5 less Labour and 5 more National MP’s
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
If you’re going to quote McCarten with approval, then you should also have included the following:
“A Labour-led government is always better then a National-led government for ordinary people.”
“I still believe Goff has little chance of beating Key in eight months. It’s not fair. But John Key is just too popular, despite starting to show himself as a bit of a lightweight.”
Ouch.
Maggie, why is it ouch? I read your McCarten quote as childish, frankly. “It’s not fair.” I mean, how old is he?
Ouch indeed, as-in, receiving a punishing blow from an 8 year-old.
Which helps none of us at all Penny – the worst possible outcome of all.
Correction bhudson, it helps the govt, cause it makes it bigger, and anything that’s big, is worth having. This is the essence of the left. They want to take it over and run it themselves, using our money. That’s all they ever talk about, when you boil it down. The worst most execrable part is they cover this naked disgusting lust with a heart-string tugging sob-story: it’s for the poor and the down-trodden, the workers and the unemployed, it’s all for them, it’s only them we ever weally care about. If they don’t do this and they really are nice, normal people like us with hearts and everything, then why, precisely, when they are in power, don’t they ever do anything to help people out of the poverty they are in? Why don’t they ever do that? Why don’t they preach that, all the time? They never even say anything about it. Because that’s their base, and they need to keep it angry and engender a collective sense of injustice amongst it in order to keep their votes. That’s why lefties never do anything. Think about it. During her Hulunship, did Hulun increase the number of people with a sense of entitlement, or decrease it? That’s the evidence and lefties can’t deny it.
Timmy, lefties are the worst people in the world. Stay away from them.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
“# slightlyrighty (1,774) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Dear Penny.
I try to keep an open mind as I read the varying political discourse here. I understand you have a viewpoint. You may have won a few court cases here and there, all done with no legal training. But your spin on the events of the day, equating Botany as a win for the left for example, in my eyes tend to qualify you as a moonbat of the highest order.
This is DPFs blog, If you wish to threadjack topics of discussion to suit your own ends, it is up to him to moderate these inane rantings. That he does not is to his credit, and your detriment. You won’t change minds here as much as we posting on your blog will change yours.
Personally I think that your conduct here marks you as nothing more than a public nuicance. Please go away.”
So sorry my considered opinion doesn’t match your world view, ‘slightlyrighty’ – just try a bit harder to open your mind and read a little more CAREFULLY what I am saying, and I’m sure you’ll get my point.
Which are the FACTS with which make you feel particularly uncomfortable?
Let me put it another way.
Under MMP – it is the ‘Party Vote’ which is VERY important.
It is the extrapolation of what happened in Botany to other electorates that must have the National Party ‘spin doctors’ going into ‘headless chook/ turbodrive mode’?
Where are those 9000 (former?) National Party votes going to go?
…………………………………… NZ First?
eeeek!
What does this mean for the rest of NZ?
In my considered opinion, my comments are absolutely ‘on thread’, but YOU ‘slightlyrighty’ actually recognise that I am making some VERY valid points – to which you cannot reply.
So – you want to SHUT ME UP.
Unfortunately for you, David Farrar has indeed proven, to his credit, that he supports ‘freedom of expression’ on his blog (unlike Cameron Slater), so given that I am not breaking any of HIS rules, and my comments ARE ‘on-thread’ (although you and others may well find the FACTS rather unpalatable) – that is your problem – not mine.
If you keep up with those ‘mind-opening’ exercises – I’m sure it will help .
Perfect practice makes perfect!
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Maggie (587) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
I was born in Hawke’s Bay. Maggies are magpies, those black and white birds you find occasionally. Usually peaceful but can be quite angry when roused.
Why do you call yourself metcalph?
bhudson (1,110) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
“Wouldn’t know about that, my grandfather had only grandsons. What about yours?”
Really Maggie? And there you were on the recent abortion thread saying that no one has right to tell you what to do with your womb. Perhaps you are a little confused. Or full of “bull puckey” to use your own words.
bhudson: Is reading your problem or comprehension? Or maybe both?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
Maggie
“I was born in Hawke’s Bay. Maggies are magpies, those black and white birds you find ”
I was born in HB too. A .410 shotgun or .22 is what we use on magpies. Fucking pests. You are well named.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
reid (6,726) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
If you’re going to quote McCarten with approval, then you should also have included the following:
“A Labour-led government is always better then a National-led government for ordinary people.”
“I still believe Goff has little chance of beating Key in eight months. It’s not fair. But John Key is just too popular, despite starting to show himself as a bit of a lightweight.”
Ouch.
Maggie, why is it ouch? I read your McCarten quote as childish, frankly. “It’s not fair.” I mean, how old is he?
Umm, well actually just between you and me I didn’t say that. It was SBY who did. But I agree with him/her. Farrar, not for the first time, quoted only those parts of McCarten’s article that suited him. The other bits, that didn’t suit, he left out.
Only one word describes that: dishonesty.
[DPF: And 20 demerits for that. I provide a link to the original article so people can see everything Matt said. I am not under any obligation to quote the parts you like. And frankly there is little news value in McCarten attacking someone from the right. There is significant when he attacks someone on the left.]
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
No Maggie, it would seem the problem is that you can’t remember just what it is that you say on this blog
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
“# Grizz (275) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Given the amount of comments Penny has made on this site recently, I was surprised she only has a little over 200 comments. It is like she has just found this site. At the end of the day she is just looking for attention. When her comments here can no longer massage her ego, she will leave. Lets see how long that will take!”
Can’t help reading them, though can you ‘Grizz’?
Whatever you think of me – you have to admit that I can dish it back, and in your secret moments, admit to yourselves (when no one else can hear) – that I do actually make a number of valid points, and I have actually helped open your eyes to viewpoints that you may not have previously considered.
I’m actually looking for intelligent debate on the issues I’m raising (you may have noticed that I AM actually raising a number of issues) – the only problem apparently being that a number of ‘poster boyz and grrls’ (such as yourself), simply don’t agree with my considered opinions.
If you don’t have the intellectual grunt to come up with robust debate – then that is not my fault – but it won’t stop me trying.
And resorting to trying to SHUT ME UP because you simply can’t handle what I’m saying is truly rather pathetic.
It’s been interesting how indeed a ‘week is a long time in politics’.
I note that most of you have now dropped the ad hominum abuse, and refer to me as ‘Penny’.
I too would refer to most of you on a first name basis – if I knew who most of you actually were?
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Lets see how long that will take!
Gizz Penny does make some good points (on occasion) but unfortunately by making every post into a missive with her stupid by-line and everything, it just makes the whole post quite hard to scan, which is the worst sin in the online world.
I advised philu when he first started here to drop his ellipses and correct his grammar but he never took my advice and Penny is doing the same thing.
To both Penny and phil, in the online world you need to facilitate scanning and humans read by looking at the shape of a word, not the letters in it. We mentally draw a shape outline around every single word and use shape recognition to recognise and process it. Only when that breaks down do we need to look at the letters in it.
This is why consistency is so important in the online world because you have very low resolution and the only thing you have to facilitate shape recognition is consistency and this is why over the years I’ve bothered to familiarise myself with things like grammar and the Chicago Manual of Style etc.
philu didn’t do badly on this consistency even tho with his ellipses he violated the grammar at least he used line breaks to break up his posts.
Whitespace is a very important visual separator esp online and this is Penny’s problem. Penny it’s very difficult to scan your posts because your quotes are not easily visually distinguished from your own comments plus you have all this irritating unnecessary branding noise in each and every post which is just like the Ginsu Knives Penny. Really annoying and totally pointless. I know you think it’s cute but no-one else does, everyone else merely finds it unnecessarily annoying, so why do it, here? By all it means do it elsewhere if you must. But why do it here?
Sorry for the off-topic.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
Farrar, not for the first time, quoted only those parts of McCarten’s article that suited him. The other bits, that didn’t suit, he left out.
Only one word describes that: dishonesty.
Newsflash Maggie, David is a blogger, not a journalist. He doesn’t have to be fair and balanced, if he doesn’t want to be. He is in other words, entitled to adopt any angle he wishes on anything, as we all are, in the blogging world.
For the sake of his own credibility, he chooses to be far more restrained than I personally would be had I a blog, but that’s his choice. So he chooses to present McCarten not as the complete mental I would have but as a reasonable, thoughtful creature.
If you think your quote and BTW I thought you had quoted it in your 2:50 as well as the other guy, proves a killer point by McCarten against the hated right, then pray tell, why do you think that? As I said, it seemed as savage as a tiny newborn kitten, in my reading of the quote.
Is it that you’re so very very downcast by all the recent tragic events amongst the left that you’re just really really keen to put some runs on the board? Is that it? Awwwwwww. You can tell us, Maggie. We won’t laugh. We’re conservatives. We really really care.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
‘Reid’Really annoying and totally pointless. I know you think it’s cute but no-one else does, everyone else merely finds it unnecessarily annoying, so why do it, here? By all it means do it elsewhere if you must. But why do it here?”
Reid – I am unsure of the mechanism which you use in order to establish what ‘everyone else’ thinks about my considered opinion(s)?
Can you please explain how you do this?
Osmosis?
Gee – wish I knew how to establish how potentially thousands of viewers think about the posts of others, and how I too, could become the (unelected) Kiwiblog ‘union delegate’ to speak on ‘everyone else’s behalf’?
“Gizz Penny does make some good points (on occasion) but unfortunately by making every post into a missive with her stupid by-line and everything, it just makes the whole post quite hard to scan, which is the worst sin in the online world.”
Thanks for the partial compliment ‘Reid’.
However, in my view, dishonesty , and ad hominum ‘missives’ are a far worse ‘sin’.
What exactly are you referring to re: my ‘stupid by-line and everything’?
Sorry for continuing the off-topic
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
hmmokrightitis (43) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
‘And I will vote National for one reason alone – because Im allowed to keep more of my hard earned, and not see it pissed away on fruitless social experimentation. So McCarten, et al, Im sorry, but fuck you. You represent the hard working? No, you dont. You represent the too damned lazy to work hard for themselves, so expect the boss and everyone else to hand it to them
OK for finance company and insurance company bail outs though? How about loans to TV networks or maybe party centrals and plastic wakas? Is it more ok for Key and English to waste your money on corporate greed and business stuff ups?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
Penny, look up the definition of missive and then compare visually your posts to almost every other blog post from anyone else on this blog, regardless of what those posts say. I’m saying look at the visual signatures. Copy and paste the whole thread into Word and then zoom it out a bit and see what page after page of other posts look like compared to your ones. Look for visual clutter.
Can you please explain how you do this?
Certainly Penny. I use data. I look at what people say in response to your missives and I also look at how many people respond and how long it is before they do. Lest you misunderstand, this is a casual observation, when I happen to give a damn, which is rarely, so I accept this isn’t strong data but I don’t really care whether you believe it or not, so I still don’t really give a damn. I also know about data on readability as gathered by scientists over many years and I apply that as well. That’s my main source.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
@Reid,
I think you have proven my point. You have made her talk herself up even more.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
kiwigunner,
1. So you have forgotten that it was Labour that set up the cover for financial institutions with the financial meltdown then?
2. AMI is not a bailout of a company, but protection for claims by policyholders throughout NZ who might otherwise find themselves with no cover – in your terms, kiwigunner, protection for the “poor” not the evil capitalist business owner. You should be lauding that as looking after the “little people.” (Also a smart move to ensure Govt ownership IF they end up having to fork out the (up to) $500m to cover the claims – that way they get to sell the company and cover some of our money.)
3. TV3 is not a loan but an acceptance of a payment plan for what was a purely arbitrary requirement to pay for many years lease up front. [As an aside on that point, if the Govt has to operate its book in general compliance with accounting standards then they can only recognise the payments as the service is delivered - i.e. 1/25th at a time (I think it was a 25 yr lease) - so the up front payment only benefits them with a, relatively, small advantage in cashflow and use of money interest on the cash they receive up front.]
4. Party Central – First promoted by your mate Mallard I believe – In fact, did he not have even more grandiose plans for party central before he and his lot were turfed from the Treasury benches?
5. Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the ‘plastic waka’ funding, anyone even remotely associated with a party/Govt that would fund a braying donkey toilet installation as NZ Art at an international exhibition would probably be best keeping those particular opinions to themselves, no?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
Is it more ok for Key and English to waste your money on corporate greed and business stuff ups?
kg no its not. The too-big-to-fail principal is extremely flawed. I was initially a supporter of the SCF bailout, but I’m beginning to experience some disquiet.
I’m not sure where I am yet with AMI. At the mo I’m tending toward the force-majuere requires exceptions side of the coin. This breaks my compassionate capitalist heart for AMI should be allowed to fail, under normal circumstances. As a mutual society it’s owned by its policy holders not by shareholders and from their perspective they simply find another insurance company. However that abandons all the AMI policy holders with outstanding claims not only in Christchurch but across the country. And that can’t happen in Christchurch.
As for the rest of the finance sector, where is the regulation and teeth to prevent this from recurring? It’s not my field, but I assume Powers Financial Markets Authority Bill monitors undue speculation in the markets but where is the bill to re-design the property market to avoid speculation which is the root cause of why the finance companies failed? Where is the bill for example that prevents real estate agents the very people with a vested interested in talking it up, from talking it up? Why should they be allowed to do that? For example.
I think you have proven my point. You have made her talk herself up even more.
Yes I apologise for that Grizz. I should have known that would happen…
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
bhudson (1,114) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
# Maggie (588) Says:
April 8th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Anyone who supports abortion believes in the right of society to force a woman to give birth against her will. I don’t believe in that.
I would never have an abortion. That’s my choice.
No Maggie, it would seem the problem is that you can’t remember just what it is that you say on this blog.
It was a joke, bhudson. Ever heard of those? Then being a leftie I don’t have a sense of humour. For the record I am 63, live in Brisbane, have been married 40 years to the same woman, have two grownup children and two granchildren. I pee standing up and poo sitting down. I have a wicked sense of humour, even my wife who knows me better than any person living is never quite sure when I’m joshing her.
And it is true I would never have an abortion, at least not without making the headlines.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
reid, I am aware Farrar is not a journalist, no newspaper would have him. Fair and balanced is not the issue, accuracy and honesty is.
Farrar, your “I posted a link” is so lame if it was a horse we’d have to shoot it. If you want credibility you don’t get it from links.
Thanks for the demerits, I wear them with honour. Do I get a star on my hand if I’m good?
Oh BTW, the bit you missed out wasn’t McCarten attacking someone from the right. He was supporting someone from the left. Its a sad day when you can’t even get your coverups accurate.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Oh and reid, thank you for the apology for misquoting me. You have gone up in my estimation. A little civility and politeness costs nothing.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Fair and balanced is not the issue, accuracy and honesty is.
To which I ask once again Maggie, what is it about Matt’s comment that DPF did not cover, that you think he should have, makes DPF guilty of not being “accurate and honest?” Could you please just answer that without obfuscation, directly?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Now Now Penny.
Equating a candidate vote to a list vote is false. There is no relevance between them. For example, in Mana in 2008, Labour got 2800 LESS votes than thier candidate did, while National got 800 MORE votes than their candidate.
As you said, the Party vote is important. You ask where the 9000 former national party votes will go? Why would you assume they would go anywhere? Making that assumtion based on a by election result that was seen as a foregone conclusion by every political commentator, as well as the Labour Candidate, is mischevious at best, and a downright lie at worst.
Using the Botany result to extrapolate nationwide party list vote support is ridiculous.
You use statistics as a drunk uses a lamp-post. For support rather than illumination.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
DPF – Glad you are starting to see that Matt has a good understanding of NZ. About time you joined him against the Nats who are destroying this country.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
Reid “I think you have proven my point. You have made her talk herself up even more.
Yes I apologise for that Grizz. I should have known that would happen…”
Yes you should have ‘Reid’.
I ‘take no shit’ and will defend myself, as I thought you would have noticed by now.
Bit of a slow learner are you?
Penny Bright
Vote:http;//waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
reid (6,735) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Fair and balanced is not the issue, accuracy and honesty is.
To which I ask once again Maggie, what is it about Matt’s comment that DPF did not cover, that you think he should have, makes DPF guilty of not being “accurate and honest?” Could you please just answer that without obfuscation, directly?
Very simple. Farrar should have pointed out that while being critical of Labour he still supported the party and wanted them to win the next election. That would be honest and accurate.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
Glad you are starting to see that Matt has a good understanding of NZ
Inky he has a very good understanding of politics but that’s not the same thing as understanding NZ, and he doesn’t have any of those other things necessary were one to make that claim.
If he was ever elected in office, I predict he would be 100% hopeless, for he has no experience of running anything other than political operations. A union is a political operation, BTW, that doesn’t count as commercial experience. And he knows nothing else.
He’s a great strategist, but his politics are fatally flawed, in that he tilts at windmills: i.e. takes positions on issues that won’t solve the problem he’s professing to resolve, in that, he’s a lefty. This is his ultimate achilles heel and means he will never, sorry to say Inky, achieve greatness.
Farrar should have pointed out that while being critical of Labour he still supported the party and wanted them to win the next election. That would be honest and accurate.
I see.
So how did you conclude he was in fact saying that about Labour?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
Maggie – “Very simple. Farrar should have pointed out that while being critical of Labour he still supported the party and wanted them to win the next election. That would be honest and accurate.”
It would also be retardedly pointless. Why state the obvious? McCarten is a leftard lifer, he will always prefer labour to win than national. You must be new to politics if you think anyone is in danger of being misled to thinking McCarten doesn’t want Labour to win.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
‘slightlyrighty’ – I respect your right to hold a view that differs from my own.
However, as someone who was rather involved in the Botany by-election campaign, (probably a little more than you – given that I was actually a candidate
I did actually get to meet quite a few people, attending candidates meetings, mixing and mingling etc, so my opinion has been formed to a degree, on the basis of my experience.
“Equating a candidate vote to a list vote is false. There is no relevance between them.”
err….. that is QUITE a statement ‘slightlyrighty’.
‘NO RELEVANCE’???
(Not quite sure upon what facts and evidence you are relying to justify your assertion?
Have you any basis for this opinion, or is it just ‘wishful thinking’ on your behalf.
Sounds a bit like the latter to me!
I guess we’ll see after the election – won’t we?
History has a habit of proving who is right and who is wrong.
I’ll make my prediction again – there is very little support for ‘partial privatisation’ of SOE’s -especially electricity assets, amongst the voting public majority, who (unfortunately for some of you) have not had a collective frontal lobotomy regarding the previous ‘Rogernomic$ commercialise, corporatise – PRIVATISE reforms.
Rogernomic$ might have been good for big business – but it wasn’t for the public majority.
(You might recall the recent ACT vote in Botany?
Penny Bright
Vote:http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2011 at 9:35 pm
hmmokrightitis (43) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
I do love the shit that is spouted, about the representation of ‘ordinary’ people. The ‘hard workers’. So, lets measure this up. Im currently making family dinner – mince on toast. I bought a cheap pack of mince today, cool Breakfast for the 3 kids and I was mashed egg on toast, fruit. Lunch was rolls and made up at home. Played outside all day. My wife works part time.
So, am I ordinary? I have a mortgage, kids, a house. What defines me as ordinary, and or hard working? So lets test that.
Im an IT consultant. Currently working out of Auckland – I commute from the provinces by plane, fly up Monday, back Friday. I earn north of $1300 a day. Im also a company director, earn about $50K a year from that company. This tax year, about $400K, my wife about $80K. I work, at the moment, about 80 hours a week. So, I work hard. I do ordinary stuff, and no champagne on the menu tonight, like most nights. I drive a 6 year old car, my wife the same. A Falcon, nothing flash. But, the left despise me. Why? Because I work hard? No, probably not. Probably because Im a rich prick. Was born and raised in wildest Northcote on the Shore, worked hard all my life, and I pay a huge amount of tax.
And I will vote National for one reason alone – because Im allowed to keep more of my hard earned, and not see it pissed away on fruitless social experimentation. So McCarten, et al, Im sorry, but fuck you. You represent the hard working? No, you dont. You represent the too damned lazy to work hard for themselves, so expect the boss and everyone else to hand it to them. Screw you. Im off to have mince on toast with the kids
hmmokrightitus: Is it all okay if I just call you hmmok? Thanks.
Since you are clearly from Eastern Europe (Poland possibly?) you may not know of the services available for people struggling financially.
First there are Budget Services. These are trained people who will provide budget advice free and confidential. They will enourage you to examine every piece of espenditure and ask: “Is this a need or a want?” That phrase might be familiar to you.
They will look at your income. On the basis of the figures you have given you pay $122,920 in tax on $4000,000. Your wife’s part time job gives her $80,000 less $17,320 tax. That means you have left to survive on just $6553 per week. It is no wonder you are finding it hard to make ends meet.
The type of advice you may receive include
1. Selling one of the two cars. I’d suggest the V12 Ferrari, which after six years will be eating up the petrol. Do the shopping in the Lamborghini.
2. The racing stable has to go. I know you were hoping for a Melbourne Cup winner this year, but….you could possibly lease the stables to someone like the trainer Roger James and reduce your planned bet on the horse from $1000,000 to $50,000, and make it an each way bet instead of just to win.
3. Take the five boys out of Auckland Grammar and put them in to a public school. At least that way they’ll get to take NCEA which the kindly Anne Tolley has provided.
4. Try going to Maxims in Paris for dinner once a month instead of weekly. Use Air New Zealand rather than hiring a Lear.
5. Cut up one of your 15 Platinum Credit Cards
In the meantime get round to WINZ as quick as you can, you need help URGENTLY. If they won’t let you have a food grant, try you local food bank, they’ll have plenty of mince for you and the kids.
Keep telling yourself things will get better. The nice Mr Key is in charge now and he will come to your rescue. Just keep patient.
Good luck,
Maggie
BTW: The figures quoted here come from the IRD on-line calulator. Maybe before posting here you should have consulted the calculator yourself.
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Maggie you’re not seriously saying you and other lefties really actually care about ‘ordinary’ people, are you?
If so, why don’t you ever do anything to get them out of their wretched grinding poverty, by giving them a path? Why instead do you merely twist the knife, cruelly play on their desperation by telling them it’s not their fault, it’s someone elses. They’re not free human beings, they’re oppressed. They’re not capable, without Labour, of rising out of their wretched existence, and they don’t have to do anything, Labour will simply make them more comfortable.
See that’s what Labour does, isn’t it. But meanwhile the poor continue to lose ground, because Labour still hasn’t given them any tools at all which they can use, to get themselves out. Wouldn’t want to do that, would you Maggie. Lose your base, I mean. That would be terrible wouldn’t it.
So my question is Maggie, why Labour never ever does anything about rectifying the human wretchedness inherent within its own base? Am I right on the above, or is there another reason?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
reid, all of us care about ordinary people, we just have different interpretations of thye word ordinary.
I don’t classify hmmok as ordinary, Do you?
I will assume where you refer to ordinary people you mean poor people. Is that right?
Poverty’s causes are many. As a budget adviser for five years most of the people I saw who were struggling had hit a ”speed bump” in their lives – loss of a job through redundancy, break up of a relationship, illness, death of a partner. These occurences weren’t their fault were they?
I’m not sure what you mean by tools, reid, perhaps you can explain that further.
What I will agree with is that after the Mother of All Budgets, Labour complained and whined about it but never restored the benefits to their former levels. That is unforgivable and sparked my decision to leave the party. And I have never voted Labour since.
Now, can you answer a question in return: Do you think hmmok has any complaint when he has a budget surplus of $6553 a week?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
Put it away (1,648) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
Maggie – “Very simple. Farrar should have pointed out that while being critical of Labour he still supported the party and wanted them to win the next election. That would be honest and accurate.”
It would also be retardedly pointless. Why state the obvious? McCarten is a leftard lifer, he will always prefer labour to win than national. You must be new to politics if you think anyone is in danger of being misled to thinking McCarten doesn’t want Labour to win.
Pu it away, Put it away, or you’ll go blind. Just do it till you need glasses, okay?
Vote:April 10th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
Maggie why do you feel compelled to answer when you clearly have nothing to say? You seem to like the sound of your own voice a lot.
Vote:April 11th, 2011 at 12:31 am
Sorry I thought this was a forum for debate. You obviously prefer solo activities. I understand.
Vote:April 11th, 2011 at 12:32 am
# Put it away (1,650) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
Maggie why do you feel compelled to answer when you clearly have nothing to say? You seem to like the sound of your own voice a lot.”
I rather ‘like the sound of Maggie’s voice’ actually
He’s prepared to ‘have a go’, stick up for himself and debate the issues, without being too personal and nasty.
And Maggie does have a sense of humour.
Ok, like me, he can get a bit exasperated at times – but that’s quite understandable.
Know the feeling Maggie – keep up the good work yourself!
If it wasn’t for the poster grrls and boyz like us – Kiwiblog wouldn’t be nearly so much fun!
Who then would the poor little goldfish have to burp at?
Penny Bright
Vote:waterpressure.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2011 at 2:25 am
Oh God, Penny did you have to say that? I’ll now be labelled Penny’s Poodle!
Would love to meet you some time, you ever come to Brisbane?
Vote:April 11th, 2011 at 2:38 am
Yes I guessed it, as usual.
Vote:April 11th, 2011 at 3:00 am
Maggie is a CM stalker.
Hehe.
Vote:April 11th, 2011 at 7:46 am
CM, Hmmmm
CM…..nah, can’t get it……
Constant Masturbator, perhaps?
Contiguous Masticator?
Cancerous Mongolian?
Cute Mollusc?
C’mon, Bobbie, give us a clue……..
Vote:April 11th, 2011 at 9:12 am
_____________________________________________________________
publicwatchdog (242) Says:
April 10th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
‘slightlyrighty’ – I respect your right to hold a view that differs from my own.
However, as someone who was rather involved in the Botany by-election campaign, (probably a little more than you – given that I was actually a candidate
I did actually get to meet quite a few people, attending candidates meetings, mixing and mingling etc, so my opinion has been formed to a degree, on the basis of my experience.
“Equating a candidate vote to a list vote is false. There is no relevance between them.”
err….. that is QUITE a statement ‘slightlyrighty’.
‘NO RELEVANCE’???
(Not quite sure upon what facts and evidence you are relying to justify your assertion?
Have you any basis for this opinion, or is it just ‘wishful thinking’ on your behalf.
Sounds a bit like the latter to me!
__________________________________________________________
OK Penny, You say that because the Labour got a higher percentage of the vote cast in the Botany by-election, that represents a swing to the left nationwide, and you accuse ME of wishful thinking?
Lets look at some actual numbers shall we?
In 2005, in Mt Albert, Clark got 20,918 votes, While Labour got 17,501 party votes.
Tha National Candidate got 6169, While National got 8488 party votes
In 2008, Clark got 20,157 votes, while Labour got 14,894 Party Votes
The National Candidate got 9806 votes, While the Nats got 12486 Party Votes.
The total votes cast increased from 32,342 to 35,219, which might account for the increased National Vote. See what happens when people get off their arse, as opposed to Botany where people stayed home?
See what happened. The winning candidates vote stayed the same, but the party vote changed. Look at the results and you will see seat after seat where the correlation between List and candidate votes belies your conclusions.
Vote: