Still on the books

August 10th, 2011 at 2:32 pm by David Farrar

The Maori Community Development Act 1962:

31 Prevention of drunkenness

A Warden may at any reasonable time enter any licensed premises in any area where he is authorised to carry out his duties and warn the licensee or any servant of the licensee to abstain from selling or supplying liquor to any who in the opinion of the Warden is in a state of intoxication, or is violent, quarrelsome, or disorderly, or is likely to become so, whether intoxicated or not, and if the licensee or any servant of the licensee thereafter on the same day supplies liquor to that , the licensee and, if the servant had been warned by the Warden, the servant, commits an offence against this Act.

H/T: Dim-Post

This comes from a TV3 story last night:

Wellington bar owners say drunk Maori will be specifically targeted during the World Cup, by a 50-year-old law that has been pulled from the archives by police and the city council.

The law allows Maori wardens to enter bars and remove drunk or violent Maori. …

Bar owners say it is racist.

“I can’t get my head around it and it is a racist law and I think it should be changed, and I can’t understand it’s still in the legislation,” says Wellington bar owner Jeremy Price.

Another bar owner, John Coleman, is just as worked up.

“It’s disgraceful, disrespectful and racist I can’t believe that they’re doing this,” he says.

The wardens were trialled after the South Africa, All Blacks game in Wellington a fortnight ago – and they will be used around the country during the Rugby World Cup.

The police say the Maori wardens have been successful around the country and even though this is a first for Courtenay Place, they do intend to use them on a long term basis.

It may be legal but it is racist, and the Police should not use the law. No problems with having Maori Wardens in an advisory capacity, but they should not use powers which are restricted to one race.

But they may not get their way, Maori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples says the law is outdated and he will review it.

“I’m sure it will be overhauled in terms of the duties, you are right the duties are old and they are written old,” he says.

It would be interesting to do a full review of all race based laws, and preferably abolish them if they are discriminatory.
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131 Responses to “Still on the books”

  1. Right of way is Way of Right (883 comments) says:

    Wait, what?

    A vote for ACT would repeal this law!

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  2. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Isn’t the concept of Maori Wardens racist?

    What do they do,who pays ‘em,what authority do they have?

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  3. PaulL (5,449 comments) says:

    Remove the word Maori. Done. Let them remove anyone drunk or obnoxious.

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  4. smttc (767 comments) says:

    Yeah like the law that creates race based seats in Parliament. Perhaps Sharples can start on the rest once he gets rid of that one.

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  5. Weihana (4,621 comments) says:

    Ok well I’m not a Maori anymore then.

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  6. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    Cue the outrage? From the story – they are not exercising those antique powers. No problem. Don’t see too many wardens around these days, thought they were a dying breed (if you’ll paron the expression).

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  7. lastmanstanding (1,310 comments) says:

    hah hah hah Oh what fun. Its the law and until it is appealed in the lawful manner it is on the Statute Books. The solution to the problem.

    Get a life get over it move on.

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  8. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,705 comments) says:

    It might be racist to the effete Wellingtonian political junky but I’m damned sure a couple of pissed bros at 0200 in Moerewa will take more notice of a Maori Warden than they will of a pasty faced young honky copper straight out of police training school.

    You see people, now you really start to see why John Key is so successful at politics. No hard ideology one way or the other, just what’s best for New Zealand.

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  9. James Stephenson (2,268 comments) says:

    It’s only racist if it’s only Maori getting turfed out of bars for being pissed and violent. This looks to me like a pragmatic use of the Maori Wardens to bolster ordinary police and avoiding “f-off you honky pig, you can’t tell me what to do” on the one hand and “f-off you’re not a real policeman” on the other.

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  10. GPT1 (2,022 comments) says:

    Or another angle would be that Maori Wardens are part of Maori exercising their Tino rangatiratanga over their own people?

    I am not sure where Maori wardens derive their power and to what extent of powers they have – I would have thought the issue would be their authority to act in bars – clearly removing drunk people or warning people is something the police can have so I guess that is a way for Wardens to be used in that supporting capacity.

    That said, it seems nuts that in theory a Maori warden could break up a fight between Maori and non Maori but only biff the Maori.

    Odd

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  11. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    Maori wardens are a bit of a relic from a different time. Their original purpose was to provide help during the waves of Maori urbanisation last century. They don’t have very wide powers and those they do have don’t seem to be used much in any formal sense.

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  12. rouppe (983 comments) says:

    It would be interesting to do a full review of all race based laws, and preferably abolish them if they are discriminatory.

    Presumably including that one that established and maintains Maori seats as a separate, race-based entity…

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  13. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Taking a big deep breath…..Would it interest anyone to know that in Tonga ( a country never colonised by any power, although the Brits had a pretty heavy influence in the early days) as late as 1981 no Tongan could buy liquor to take away? There were virtually no bars then, so on-licence (mis)behaviour didn’t really exist. Palangis had to apply for a licence to buy a certain amount of liquor per month. Those laws were laws made by Tongans for Tongans….and the visitors to their country.

    Here in NZ, Sir Apirana Ngata was the leader most associated with trying to prevent Maori from ready access to alchohol and the establishment of licensed premises in “Maori” areas….Incidentally, Ngata was also strongly opposed to welfare for Maori, prophesying that it would damage the race…which is what Brash was getting at when he said a couple of weeks ago that if he were alive today, Ngata would be a member of the ACT party….

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  14. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    @Adolf Fiinkensein
    “couple of pissed bros at 0200 in Moerewa will take more notice of a Maori Warden than they will of a pasty faced young honky copper straight out of police training school”.
    Or any cop remember sen sarge bob O’Hara being pushed into a burning police van in that town in the eighty’s

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  15. rouppe (983 comments) says:

    Interesting. Stumbled across this… You’re not allowed to offer a reward for stolen goods, no questions asked.

    However it seems quite common to do just that.

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  16. Viking2 (11,684 comments) says:

    Adolf Fiinkensein (2,071) Says:
    August 10th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    You see people, now you really start to see why John Key is so successful at politics. No hard ideology one way or the other, just what’s best for New Zealand.

    Yep, no principles about anything.
    .

    Have you joined labour. That is’ just a blatant troll.
    Truth be know it was probably made the law by one of your beloved Nats. back when they wanted to control everything, much like they do now…..

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  17. backster (2,196 comments) says:

    Its not racist at all. The Police have the same powers duties and obligations in respect to licenced premises. The reason for the clause complained of is that the wardens could often command more respect and effect a more peaceable eviction than a uniformed Police Officer in dealing with drunken maori.
    During my Police Service I invariably had great respect for the wardens finding them of more practical use than most of the Social Workers and other Officials I might otherwise have had to deal with.

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  18. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    I think David Garrett meant to say ‘Maori Party’! It’s funny to see Ngata held up as a poster boy for ACT, Brash put him on the $10 note, etc, etc. It’s about as relevant as saying Gordon Coates would be at home in today’s National Party or Mickey Savage in Labour ie, not relevant.

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  19. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    Strike out every instance of the word “Maori” in that clause 31 and replace with “Citizen.”
    Strike out every instance of “Maori Warden” and replace with “Police Officer.”

    Then you would have a good effective control on the sort of people who cause trouble when they get maggotted.

    You! Sunshine! Serve any more drinks to that drunken idiot in the Che Guevara t-shirt, and you’re nicked!

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  20. Weihana (4,621 comments) says:

    backster – I think this is different. They have the power to biff you out even when you are not intoxicated or violent etc. They only require the “opinion” that you are “likely” to become so whether intoxicated or not. That seems absurd to me.

    Besides, how the hell do you tell if someone is Maori? What does it mean to be Maori? The law would seem unenforceable.

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  21. Bandycoot (29 comments) says:

    Just how exactly are the Maori wardens going to ascertain that someone is “Maori”???

    1/8th, 1/16th? At what level will someone cease to be of Maori descent in order to avoid this law?

    Bandycoot

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  22. wreck1080 (4,001 comments) says:

    Ummm, but we are moving towards seperatism so I don’t see an issue.

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  23. Graeme Edgeler (2,972 comments) says:

    Stumbled across this… You’re not allowed to offer a reward for stolen goods, no questions asked.

    That’s one of my favourites. Also the law that prohibits denying or impugning validity of lawful marriage.

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  24. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    Graeme

    I heard of that law, not being invoked exactly, but certainly mentioned some years ago when a young military person was let off a charge after coming forward to return stolen items on a ‘no questions asked basis’.

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  25. KevinH (1,257 comments) says:

    Contrary to opinion milkenmild, Maori wardens are just as valuable to the community today than they were during the urbanisation of Maori post WW2.
    The concillatory non threatening approach of Maori Wardens in the community has it’s place where often just a word or two can diffuse a potentially risky situation, such as male assaults female.
    Also a Maori Warden has widespread recognition in the Maori community, and is recognised as non threatening, thereby being quite helpful and useful in situations where alcohol or drugs has seriously impaired judgement.
    Maori Wardens have a role to perform in the community, and now , they have rebranded as Wardens, accepting into their ranks people from Pacifica, Asia, India and also Euro New Zealanders which broadens their usefullness in the wider community.

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  26. Christopher Thomson (377 comments) says:

    Remember Bob O’Hara – shit yeah.

    I can’t remember who it was that shot the bad guy in the leg but the word around work was that he did it a bit too soon.

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  27. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    Viking2 @3:18pm – you often berate the views of others. Would this song encapsulate your political philosophy?

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  28. rouppe (983 comments) says:

    Graeme:

    So S56(1)(b) says I can’t call anyone a bloody bastard! Eeek! Wonder when the last time that was enforced

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  29. Christopher Thomson (377 comments) says:

    A history,

    The Maori Community Development Act 1962 created the Wardens.

    The Maori Purposes Act 1975 repealed the creating section of the first act and replaced it with a similar section.

    The Maori Purposes Act 1981 made a small amendment to the section.

    The Schedule to the Ministry of Maori Development Act 1991 also included amendments to the section.

    So it would appear that it has been around and Parliament have been aware of it without ever considering it wrong.

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  30. Longknives (4,966 comments) says:

    I’m a bit confused- Havn’t Sharples and Co been pushing for a seperate justice and legal system for their so-called ‘Tangata Whenua’ for years??? Surely this is right up his alley??

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  31. Christopher Thomson (377 comments) says:

    And now lets have a read of S 33 of the Act;

    Maori Community Development Act 1962
    33 Disorderly behaviour at Maori gatherings
    (1) Any person, whether a Maori or not, who is under the influence of intoxicating liquor in any Maori meeting house or church or other building or meeting place where Maoris are assembled and who refuses to leave the same when requested so to do commits an offence against this Act.
    (2) Every person, whether a Maori or not, who having the control or management of any dance, meeting, tangi, hui, or other gathering of Maoris being held in any meeting place supplies intoxicating liquor to any person within the bounds of the meeting place or permits any such liquor to be taken into or consumed within the bounds of the meeting place, commits an offence against this Act.
    (3) Every person, whether a Maori or not, who, while at a dance, meeting, tangi, hui, or other gathering of Maoris is being held in a meeting place, drinks any intoxicating liquor within the bounds of the meeting place, or has any such liquor in his possession or control within the bounds of the meeting place or in the vicinity of the meeting place or supplies intoxicating liquor to any person in the meeting place commits an offence against this Act.

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  32. Christopher Thomson (377 comments) says:

    (4) For the purposes of subsection (2) of this section [sic: subsection] intoxicating liquor shall be deemed to be in the vicinity of a meeting place where a gathering of Maoris is being held if it is shown that the liquor was in the possession or control of any person attending or proceeding to attend the gathering, or was consumed or intended for consumption by any person so attending.
    (5) Any member of the Police or Maori Warden who has reason to suspect that there is any breach by any person of the provisions of this section in or in the vicinity of any meeting place where a gathering of Maoris is taking place may without warrant enter the meeting place or any place in the vicinity thereof, and examine the same and search for intoxicating liquor therein and may seize and remove any such liquor found therein and the vessels containing the liquor. Any intoxicating liquor so seized in respect of which any person is convicted of an offence under this section shall, together with the vessels containing the liquor, be forfeited to the Crown.

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  33. JC (951 comments) says:

    Ah, not too many conservatives in here.. what?

    The MW are a tradition, a pragmatic answer to an acknowledged problem. Also, quite useful people to have around in Maori areas like marae, big family gatherings, tangi, Maori sports events etc.

    You can call it racist if you like but I call it a useful tradition that still seems to work.

    JC

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  34. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    Now, here’s a surprise. The Maori Community Development Act has just been reviewed by the Maori Affairs Committe, who recommended, among other things, that ‘the sections of the Act that outline specific, limited, functions for Maori Wardens, be
    repealed, as wardens’ roles are increasingly diverse, and should be adaptable to specific community needs’.

    So no worries there, eh?

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  35. backster (2,196 comments) says:

    WEIHANA……….My experience is they didn’t go looking for trouble or being officious without reason. It is over 20 years since I left the Police and Political Correctness and sensitivity tend to rule the roost today. If you take power (which they seldom use) away from them you diminish their mana. As far as I know there has never been a complaint about the manner in which they carry out their duties so why take away a power which the Police believe can be usefully employed in the future.

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  36. Murray (8,803 comments) says:

    “You see people, now you really start to see why John Key is so successful at politics. No hard ideology one way or the other, just what’s best for New Zealand.”

    Really? Is that how you want to play that one Adolf? Explain the fllowing for me, 1. How is the anti-smacking legislation he helped pass “whats best for the country”? 2. How is a cardon emmissions trading scheme “whats best for the country”?

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  37. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    Perhaps we should say what John Key thinks is best for the country. No one (well, maybe DPF) thinks Key always has it right. What politician is? It would be a stretch to find politicinas who believe what they want would harm the country.

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  38. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    The very fact that certain people seem to think we should make exceptions for people (of any colour or ethnicity) who choose not to obey the law is the heart of this issue here.
    We are all subject to the same laws, this is fact, learn to accept it !!! if a drunken Maori chooses to take exception to a white policeman telling him to leave the premises then the problem lies with the drunken Maori and no-one else… they should simply be arrested and locked up to cool off for the night – just like any other person of non-Maori decent.
    If Maori people choose to go into these premises with the intention of cooling down these situations and helping out people of their own race who cant help themselves then good on them i say BUT !!! there should be no official police endorsements or official powers (or heaven forbid… funding) given to them simply because they are there to offer assistance to any one singular race.
    Hone, Sharples, Turia etc, etc, etc will never understand this simple logic that exclusiveness (or inclusiveness – as the case may be) based on race is racism in its purest form and it is no less disgusting from those who supposedly have some form of historical grievance.

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  39. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    They do a good job, majority work in a voluntary capacity and they serve the community keeping Maori that need it in line. Maori would prefer to be hauled out of a bar by a Maori Warden, given a good telling off and taken home. Rather than getting into fisties with the boys in Blue and ending up in the cells.
    Win Win as far as I see it, and ask Maoris if its racist, I’m betting the majority will say no!

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  40. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    eaglewatch
    So its the acknowledgment that you have an issue with, the perceived authority that may be given?
    Ask the police if they help or hinder their work. I hope commonsense prevails here – if it works why bugger around with it?

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  41. krazykiwi (8,040 comments) says:

    It would be interesting to do a full review of all race based laws, and preferably abolish them if they are discriminatory

    You can have race-based laws that aren’t discriminatory?!?

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  42. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    This is a very, very mild example of much, much bigger issue.
    Do you think that continuing to offer exceptions to the laws that everyone else has to abide by (dont even start me on the rest of the “perks”) will actually help these people accept the reality that the law is the law and it MUST (whether you like the colour of the policeman enforcing it or not) be obeyed.
    The long term solution does not lie in pandering to one singular race… ALL races must accpet the laws that govern this country.
    And yes… I have an issue with anybody outside of the police force thinking that they have powers over and above anyone else (aside from MAF and customs etc).

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  43. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    Your theory on asking the the Maori’s offers no impartial insight whatsoever does it… bizzare !!!

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  44. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    eaglewatch

    I think you’re misunderstanding the role of the wardens. They’re not actually going into bars and exercising these antique powers – in fact they dont want to. They are volunteers out there helping members of the community. They might even let you join up if you ask nicely!

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  45. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Mike

    Im not misunderstanding anything but I can see as per usual that the point is completely lost on you… it just flew over your head and out the window, along with your commonsense.

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  46. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    I think taht correct question would be to ask Maori if they would find it racist if there was a group entering bars with the sole purpose of helping non-Maori and even though most wont publicly admit it… the answer would be yes.

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  47. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    eaglewatch
    “Your theory on asking the the Maori’s offers no impartial insight whatsoever does it… bizzare !!!”

    Makes perfect sense to me – ask the users, commonly used method to gauge if something works or not.
    I’ll give you an example, about 2 years ago my next door neighbour who had just separated from her husband of 16yrs was badly beaten up by him. After he did his 13 weeks in lockup and was back out on the streets, she was visited by the Maori Wardens throughout the night, they did home checks on her which provided her with a feeling of security. The police were fine with that as they couldnt check on her to that extent and we knew if something were to happen we would just ring them.
    No one paid them, she wasnt Maori but they were aware she was scared and offered to help. They brought food to her and her kids, they took the kids out on the Saturday to give her some time out – they were great!

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  48. Steve (4,537 comments) says:

    Amazing. All of the try hard Maori and milkybars are suddenly not Maori when pissed and confronted by a Maori Warden.
    What’s that called? hypo-something. Two faced, pot/kettle etc, you get the idea.

    Maori are special and don’t you forget it ok

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  49. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    You are asking the very people who’s existense is being debated for f*cks sake !!! it is not impartial.
    Whether it made sense to you or not is completely irrelevant… Impartiality was what was at question of which this would offer none.
    You partisan arguements have blinded you to the issue at hand… by all means carry on spouting off about how wonderful they are.

    Have a joyous and blissfully ignorant evening :-)

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  50. Tom Barker (150 comments) says:

    “Brash said a couple of weeks ago that if he were alive today, Ngata would be a member of the ACT party….”

    Ngata resigned as Minister of Maori Affairs in disgrace in 1934, after a major scandal involving misuse of public funds and corruption by his staff. Classic ACT material then. No wonder Brash wanted his image on a banknote.

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  51. starboard (2,563 comments) says:

    why are maori wardens always obese?

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  52. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    Thus spake our resident nutritionist.

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  53. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    “She wasn’t Maori”… was he ?

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  54. starboard (2,563 comments) says:

    oh you spake in latin Rodders..

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  55. starboard (2,563 comments) says:

    wheres your side kick milkymilo ….comedy duo..usually appears about now with his comic wisdom…

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  56. krazykiwi (8,040 comments) says:

    Popcorn. Where’s my popcorn?

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  57. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    Perhaps mike’s having his dinner. Are you missing him already?

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  58. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Thou spake = archaic English
    funny how you all love mike miss him so much and all that maybe his blandness makes you feel superior

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  59. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    no they were both Indian Fijian. Most of the Maori Wardens around here work during the day and volunteer taking shifts during the evening, although I do know there are quite a few super’s (well they look old enough to be on the superannuation) I havent asked. Some overweight but not everyone.

    eaglewatch: who would you propose to review this “racist” group of volunteers?
    BTW I do get the point you are trying to make, which is somewhat like Don Brashes when you think about it – 1 law for all I think your the naive one really!

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  60. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    I’m here starboard. Say something outrageous for the group.

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  61. starboard (2,563 comments) says:

    anyhooo…why are they all fat? Ive never seen a skinny one.

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  62. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    You’ve met a lot of them in Christchurch, have you?

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  63. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    Maybe because the fit ones are working? You dont get any pay as a Maori Warden.

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  64. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee…

    Aaaah, they probably felt some form of empathy due to their skin colour (or being one of the great oppressed minorities) then.

    I noticed that in your previous statements of ignorance you started refering to the wardens as “they” but then in one of paragraphs you started writing “we”… I go back to my original comments about partisan arguements.

    If you choose to believe that all this race based privellage, race based exclusion and preferential treatment is anything but racist then you simply need to pull your head out from your own rectum and clean the crap from your blind eyes.

    BTW… I am not a Brash supporter but I along with thousands (probably millions) of other non-brainwashed, sane kiwi’s happen to agree with his simple statements of fact around racism in this country.

    As for who would i propose to Review this “racist” group (your words, not mine… & that proves beautifully that you dont get my point) – perhaps we should open it up to a panel that has the correct representaion proportionatly of the population but that would just be too democratic wouldn’t it, nothing can be officially reviewed or decided upon in this country without an astounding over-representation of Maori within whatever panel or such that is set up now can it… that would (according to the likes of you) simply be racist.

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  65. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    You dont get any pay but you get a primo hat, a choice shiny flourescent coat and mean arse walkie talkie to play with though aye… mean Maori mean

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  66. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    eaglewatch
    honestly what can I say but – what an utter crock of crap!

    NZ spoke when Don Brash came out with the same sort of bull that your spouting and look where he is now. Waiting for the likes of yourself to breathe life into this rubbish.

    As I said naive!

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  67. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    I can only conclude that some people are jealous of Maori Wardens for actually getting together and going out to help their people. Much easier to hate them if they stayed home on the dole, breeding and stealing, eh?

    As for reviewing them, um, they just have been reviewed and it has been recommended that their governing legislation be changed to better suit their changing role.

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  68. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    True since they undergo training with Police who knows what that may be.

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  69. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    How do you manage to see the keyboard when your head is wedged firmly in your bum cheeks ? very skillful indeed.

    Don went about it the wrong way, hence why i dont support the man… he’s a fool but that does not mean that what he was saying was true.

    In paradox… lets wait and see how well your racist cronies from Mana and Maory parties poll in the upcoming election shall we… down with MMP and down with the nindnumbingly ignorant, gullible and brainwashed claptrap that you perpetuate… you are the true personification of naivety and when you have finally got round to dislodging your head from your sphincter you might be able to see reality, rather than the crap that resides on your upper extemities, not only from the afore mentioned embedment but the dribble from your mouth too.

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  70. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    The police just need to man up and deal with them the same way that they deal with everyone else… the way that certain people are harping on… you’d would think that they themselves dont try diplomacy as the first option.
    If a drunken, abusive Maori needs to be locked up… just f*cking well do it, same goes for any other drunken, abusive person of any other race.

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  71. slightlyrighty (2,098 comments) says:

    I think many of us forget that it is illegal to serve anyone, regardless of race, if they are intoxicated, and that police may enter any licensed premises, and tell staff not to serve ant individual, regardless of race.

    Personally, I think that some Maori, especially those afilliated with the Tino Rangitiratanga movement, may well respond better to friendly advice from a Maori Warden, rather than a hevier handed approach from the police.

    Having said that, I think that the law is well past it’s use by date. For example, the Maori Wardens only have jurisdiction over Maori. If Christian Cullen could be a Maori All Black, then how can we identify who is Maori? Given that there is a large Pacific Island community, how do we distinguish race from race? Are we all to be required to carry ID cards so we can prove our racial background?

    A slippery slope indeed. This law must be repealed. Not for the law it was at the time, but for the odious peice of legislation it has become.

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  72. grumpyoldhori (2,205 comments) says:

    Garrett. Sir Apirana Ngata, strange, no welfare for Maori, funny that Ngata was fighting like hell from 1918 on to get welfare payments for wounded Maori soldiers which they did not get automatically unlike others

    No booze for Maori, well yes Ngata believed that for most Maori, but not for the Rangatira ,after all they did need a scotch in the officers mess.

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  73. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    I’m not sure how you reached this theory of jealousy (repulsed and bewlidered would be a better descriptive) but thank you for pointing out the legislation has been recommended to be changed… common sense has prevailed !!!

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  74. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    Why resort to personal abuse?
    Your arguments should be able to stand on its merits, which statistics prove otherwise.
    Well I’ve been brought up by parents who taught me to respect other peoples opinions and I attack the issue not the person.

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  75. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    The issue is your ignorance… it was a colourful way of describing it but it was none the less describing just that…

    I tried reasoning and common logic but these are obviously foreign to you as your thought process/beliefs are somewhat warped.

    You called me naive, i simply chose a harder hitting decriptive… deal with it how you will, have a cry, call human rights etc. etc.

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  76. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee

    There are no statistics to prove otherwise… what percentage of this countries laws and legislation is racist or not has not been polled… so nice try !!!

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  77. Steve (4,537 comments) says:

    slightlyrightly is onto it.
    For some there is a time to be Maori, and a time to be ‘other than Maori’
    The idea is to play the game of this Maoridom bullshit and milk it for what you can, oh oh oh unless you have too much waipero and Maori Warden says ‘come with me’
    Then New Zealand has those who ‘feel Maori’ not being so truthfull about being Maori because they are full of shit, just like the “Walking Eagle” just entering Parliment

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  78. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    The legislation is to be reviewed to better reflect how the communities want them to work, they assist the police and public and have the ability to de-escalate volitile situations where the police cant. Ive seen them, us, we work well in my community.

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  79. burt (7,434 comments) says:

    DPF

    No problems with having Maori Wardens in an advisory capacity, but they should not use powers which are restricted to one race.

    Right, so it’s OK to have a race based warden system but it’s not OK for them to use powers based on race… Guess they will be surrendering their warden status then….

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  80. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    Steve
    Ummmmm What?

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  81. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    Well said DeeDee. For the life of me I can’t see much difference between the wardens and a locality organising a community patrol. For those that can’t find out stuff for themselves, the select committee has noted that the powers wardens have are well past their use-by date and the governance structure needs an overhaul. No one is ‘repealing’ the legislation or getting rid of the wardens – their organisation is being modernised to help communities with contemporary issues.

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  82. Steve (4,537 comments) says:

    DeeDee
    Special people have special rights that we pay for

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  83. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    Well lets see what comes out in the wash, I havent seen any of them exercise entering a local pubs to be honest, but this has come to a head because I understand the police were planning on utilising them during the RWC.
    We’ll see.

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  84. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    Maori Wardens dont get paid, so your not paying for anything in this regards. I know they provide security for large events like Pacifica and Waitangi but you would pay any security agency to do the same, I’ve been told that the cost offsets their uniforms and administration, but for community functions they are free.

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  85. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    mike

    some of use our computers to earn a living and dont have time to research and blog all day every day…

    If you and DeeDee didn’t have severly diminished powers of comprehension you would come to the realisation that I (and most others) dont have an issue with a group of Maori going around helping their fellow Maori, the issue is that they would have any additional powers bestowed upon them over and above the general public…

    Now, DeeDee hit the nail on the head with one of her comments… “Maori would prefer to be hauled out of a bar by a Maori Warden, given a good telling off and taken home. Rather than getting into fisties with the boys in Blue and ending up in the cells”
    Do you not see the underlying racism in this very comment – what the drunken Maori would prefer is fucking irrelevant !!! he will only get into fisticuffs if he refuses to obey the law and resist !!! and why is this exclusively for Maori ?

    You know what you call a white person who helps out a white person in a bar that is going to get themselves into trouble… a friend, a mate etc.

    Think about it !!!

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  86. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    eaglewatch

    Having read a number of your posts, I’ve formed this mental image of you:

    http://www.lat34.com/2010/10/31/holiday-gift-guide-schick-hydro-razor1/

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  87. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    The point is the de-escalation of a problem, fully supported by the police, freeing them up to better service the wider public!

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  88. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    I feel the bile rising up – or is that a hair ball?

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  89. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Scott…

    How could I possibly come close to retaliating with such razor sharp wit… you the man !!!

    Your post has about as much sense as DeeDee’s perhaps you should both join hands and sing a waiata lamenting the great white oppressors etc.

    Your mental images are more probably around taking that hairy beast to bed and living out your closet fanatsies !!!

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  90. BlairM (2,340 comments) says:

    Ngata resigned as Minister of Maori Affairs in disgrace in 1934, after a major scandal involving misuse of public funds and corruption by his staff. Classic ACT material then. No wonder Brash wanted his image on a banknote.

    Ngata took ministerial responsibility for his department. It was one blot on one of the most stellar political careers in New Zealand history. Ngata is New Zealand’s Winston Churchill, so don’t slag him off. You should be confined to the stockades with a copy of He Tipua (his biography) for bedtime reading.

    Garrett. Sir Apirana Ngata, strange, no welfare for Maori, funny that Ngata was fighting like hell from 1918 on to get welfare payments for wounded Maori soldiers which they did not get automatically unlike others

    Ah, yeah, SOLDIERS, arsehole. You fight for your country, you should have your arse kissed, whether it’s white or brown. That’s not “welfare”, that’s gratitude. Wounded soldiers have earned the largesse of the state.

    Now as to this Maori Warden issue: This is what happens when you have race-based government-appointed officials. It’s not the law in question which is racist (pulling drunks out of bars is legitimate), but the Warden force themselves. Should they exist at all? Well I have long argued that ACT’s “One Law For All” policy is bollocks and that Maori should have their own justice system in the same way that Scotland and County Durham do in the UK. It simply seems more practical, and gives Maori accountability and responsibility in matters that they might otherwise simply blame whitey for. And it’s a simple matter of fact that some young fulla on the piss is going to listen to one of his kuia in a green uniform far better than he is some honky in a blue one.

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  91. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    DeeDee… probably your own arse pubes from the afore mentioned embedment.

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  92. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Its good to see the community spirit inherent in Maori wardens that is valuable beyond recompense. However the racism inherent in the statement that they deal with Maori better needs further exploration. respect for the law should not be a racial issue in any way

    That picture is sick as
    ha ha

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  93. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Blair M…

    Your comments about soldiers are the most truthful thing said today… well done.

    With all due respect though… do you honestly see a separate legal system working, how can you lock up someone of one particular race for perpetrating a criminal act and not lock up someone from another race for doing the same ?
    or is it the way that they go about prosecuting and sentencing you refer to ?

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  94. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    @eaglewatch – have you commented here previously, under another pseudonym ? Your style seems familiar.

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  95. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    there is no room in the treaty for a separate system that right is wot Maori signed away in 1840

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  96. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Rodders

    No, that was the 49th post I’ve made in this blogsite under any pseudonym.

    Do you have an issue with my style ?

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  97. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    eaglewatch says:

    “Your post has about as much sense as DeeDee’s perhaps you should both join hands and sing a waiata lamenting the great white oppressors etc.”

    Thanks for that idea. This is the mental image I’ve formed of Dee Dee:

    http://fitnessanddefense.com/scarlett-johansson-diet/

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  98. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    @eaglewatch – No, you seem to have settled in well.

    @Scott – in your dreams, mate.

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  99. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    Rodders

    Does eaglewatch remind you of someone recently kicked off the site?

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  100. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    Not that, mike. The style just seemed to ring a bell.

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  101. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    @Scott Chris
    I will never be able to read any post by these two with out seeing your links evil evil man

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  102. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    Yep thats me :) :) just a little more tanned! Green eyes red hair.

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  103. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    read general debate not good

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  104. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    Griff – are you sure DeeDee isn’t your ex , and she has finally found you ?
    (Bunny boiling time !) ;)

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  105. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Hell no she had the looks bit not dee dees intelligence to cope with posting on here U must have at least half a brain my ex ?

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  106. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Scott…
    When you say “mental image” you refer to your imagination (of which yours is very over-active)… reality, however can be a very scary thing sometimes… just sayin.

    Rodders…
    Was that a welcome of sorts ? this is the very first blogsite that you are all lucky enough to have me frequent :-)

    Mike…
    I think i get the picture your painting there and perhaps I’ll take your not so subtle hint and calm it down a notch or two but personally I dont really see too much wrong with the odd slanging match… nothing wrong with some good old heated debate with the odd insult and swear word thrown in for humour if nothing else… all part of the game in my own humble and insignificant opinion

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  107. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    eaglewatch
    take it from a redhead (actually auburn) anything you dish out mate can be handled.
    Afterall when your a green eyed redheaded Maori women you hear all sorts of rubbish.

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  108. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    @eaglewatch

    Good on you mate. Play the ball and not the man.

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  109. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Oh come on now kiddies, lets all learn to play in the same sandpit….

    Scott…
    was that all a bit too “underarm” for you was it… you be sure to explain the rules of “your game” next time round then mate… DeeDee will give you a cuddle !

    DeeDee…
    Green eyes, red hair and “tanned” skin… you’d be horrified to know that we do have some things in common and if the females in my family are anything to go by… you have my instantaneous respect.

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  110. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    eaglewatch

    Not at all. Knock yourself out.

    “In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.”

    Buddha

    Now let’s all join hands and sing kumbaya.

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  111. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    I grow my little finger nail long just to poke it up your nose sometimes I find brains sometimes nothing bit snot

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  112. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Scott…

    Yeah, I couldnt agree more with the words of Bhudda but I also believe that there is opinion (debated a lot on this website) and there is truth or fact.

    To deny the truth or existance of fact is simply ignorance, no matter what your religous or cultural beliefs are… I think that Bhudda’s words are more along the lines of tolerating that ignorance.

    Anyways… no angry man here at any stage today, all great fun.

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  113. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    “I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain” – Doctor Seuss

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  114. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    eaglewatch this ones for you and goodnight
    In order to get beyond racism, we must first take account of race. There is no other way. And in order to treat some persons equally, we must treat them differently.
    Harry A. Blackmun

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  115. eaglewatch (64 comments) says:

    Nice quote… sounds like someones (potentially racist) “opinion” too me.

    Good night to you too

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  116. Viking2 (11,684 comments) says:

    Clearly their is a need for Wardens.
    Not on the streets but inside many homes.
    According to our courts Mana is now more important to alcoholics than dealing with the violence that comes with excess alcohol.

    NOEL JAMES OSBOURNE: A conviction would “severely impact on his mana”.

    Te Papa manager avoids assault conviction
    ANTONIO BRADLEY
    Last updated 05:00 11/08/2011

    A Te Papa manager has escaped conviction for a “degrading” assault on his pregnant former partner after claiming it would hamper his international travel for the museum.

    Noel James Osborne, 47, is a collections manager of Maori artefacts. In a video on Te Papa’s website in which he presents the museum’s collection of taiaha, he says he is a carver.

    Women’s Refuge chief executive Heather Henare said Osborne’s discharge without conviction reeked of double standards. “Effectively what this says is it is OK if you happen to be in a privileged position.” .

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5425894/Te-Papa-manager-avoids-assault-conviction

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  117. Nookin (3,571 comments) says:

    V2
    Hard to argue with you on this. I thought Te Papa was the national museum Maybe the judge should have asked whether we want someone like that representing NZ overseas. I draw the analogy with athletes facing criminal charges seeking a discharge because they may not be able to represent NZ. Fuck them. I don’t want them to represent NZ. They dont represent NZ.

    Mr Osbourne might like to reflect that for most NZers, it’s not the conviction that has stripped him of his mana, it’s the fact that he saw it as his entitlement to assault his pregnant partner. Escaping conviction is his way of pretending that it didn’t happen.

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  118. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    It’s possible the District Court decision to grant a discharge without conviction will be appealed to the High Court. On the circumstances reported, one would hope so. One would also expect Te Papa to be sensitive about its reputation, and perhaps that might impact on this person’s employment.

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  119. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    According to the article:
    “Police did not oppose the discharge without conviction, which Judge Bruce Davidson granted.”

    He’s using the excuse of having an alcohol problem. I should really get one of those, they same to get you away with anything!

    The guy looks very creepy. He “rubbed water from the toilet in her face and told her to “eat shit”, according to a police summary.” He’s a bloody psychopathic sadist, and Bruce Davidson lets him off scot free! So he can travel overseas on the taxpayer dime!

    Not on, Brucey. I’m surprised he didn’t get name suppression too!

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  120. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    He could do a few “voluntary” hours working with the Maori Wardens, or do community work with a Womens Refuge – anything!!. As I mentioned in a previous response, my next door neighbour got the c**p (broken jaw, broken rib, fractured eye socket) beat out of her by her husband and he and he only got 13 weeks!! Thats not counting the years of verbal and physical abuse she went through before it got to that point. I have to tell you she went back to him about a year later and moved away from here.

    Lets not detract from the good work from the Maori Wardens do, and some of their time is spent in homes with men and women with anger problems.

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  121. sifty (23 comments) says:

    Poor old Winston will be scared to go out on the town until this legislation is repealed. No doubt it will be one of his bottom line conditions for any coaltion talks.He obvioulsy must have been unaware of it during his last reign or else it would have been gone by lunchtime!

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  122. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    I would say that the publishing of his name and face has diminished his Mana far more than his conviction would have. He still should have been convicted of his crime. This sort of wooliness from the courts needs to be rained in. If he was working class he would have been convicted with out doubt. Our justice system seems to be skewed to the benefit of those with the money to pay for flash liers

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  123. BlairM (2,340 comments) says:

    With all due respect though… do you honestly see a separate legal system working, how can you lock up someone of one particular race for perpetrating a criminal act and not lock up someone from another race for doing the same ?
    or is it the way that they go about prosecuting and sentencing you refer to ?

    Jurisdiction is the big issue, but there are ways and means. It would be determined by the victim, not the perpetrator. If you commit a crime against a Maori, then you should get Maori justice. (I’m not sure whether that would involve boiling and eating the crim’s head, but why not? It sounds like fun)

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  124. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    A better kind of Justice

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2465/is_4_30/ai_63699783/

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  125. immigant (950 comments) says:

    I am enraged by the unfairness of the Maori Warden system. Preferential treatment for Maori once again. How come we don’t get White Guy wardens or Chinese wardens? I’m disgusted with the way Maori get a special deal while the rest of New Zealand has to just get drunk withot any wardens to supervise!

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  126. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    You do its called the NZ police dahhhh

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  127. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    And there’s nothing to stop someone setting up Pakeha Wardens – if they want to.

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  128. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    To true mikenmild

    “enraged by the unfairness of the Maori Warden system”
    do you even know what it is??
    Enraged??? What a drama queen!

    “Preferential treatment for Maori once again”
    Maori initiative Bro!
    nothing stopping anyone else taking on a bit of community responsibility.

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  129. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    What ever happened to neighbourhood watch?

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  130. mikenmild (12,432 comments) says:

    I think it became Neighbourhood Support and then faded from view. You still see the signs on the lamp posts though. It seems Kiwis would rather vote to be tough on crime and lock’em up longer rather than actually get together to mind their neighbourhoods. There is also the factor that neighbourhoods are probably much safer than many imagine. When surveyed, most people report that crime is getting worse, but not in their street or suburb, etc.

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  131. DeeDee (75 comments) says:

    Woke up this morning and the young couple that live next door to me had their car pinched out of their driveway, my car had been broken into and they went through the glove compartment, but they didnt take the car.

    They have 3 children under 5 so I dropped dad at the train this morning. Hopefully the cops will find it intact because they are on the bones of their assess and one of the kids goes to hospital regularly.

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