It was the Greens
November 15th, 2011 at 12:37 pm by David FarrarI blogged yesterday regarding the vandalism by stickers of National’s billboards that it was almost inevitably done by people involved in a political party. I was right, and the Greens have fessed up today. Stuff reports:
The Greens have revealed a party member and the partner of one of its staff members were behind the vandalism of 700 National Party billboards.
Co-leader Russel Norman said Jolyon White, who is the partner of his executive assistant, co-ordinated the defacing of the billboards.
First some history, about this. Whale first blogged about the plan for the stickers on 14 October, when he heard about the call for quotes for the stickers. Despite this publicity, the arrogant Greens involved decided to proceed.
Then Whale got sent photos of two motorcycles used in the stickering. From this point it was just a matter of time until those involved were exposed. I should point out that Whale is getting more page views than me at the moment – deservedly so.
So the co-ordinator is Jolyon White, who is the Social Justice Enabler for Anglican Church. Surely the church can not condone one of its staff doing this vandalism?
He is such an arrogant idiot, that he even went on radio boasting about what he did, and it seems some recognised his voice.
But it is the Greens who have the most questions to answer, based on this report:
Norman said his executive assistant had known about her partner’s plans for about two months and he was disappointed with her for not mentioning it.
It was an employment issue but the party had not spoken to Parliamentary services about the matter.
Okay imagine that say Labour party billboards were vandalised all around New Zealand. And it turned out the person who co-ordinated it was the husband of the Prime Minister’s executive assistant, and that the PM’s executive assistant had known about it for two months. Would Labour (or any political party) accept that the Prime Minister knew nothing at all about it? There would be calls for resignations, and for an official inquiry.
If the executive assistant knew about it for two months, and did not tell Dr Norman then it must be a sackable offence. She has failed in her most basic duty of care to her employer. How can the Greens possibly say they are disappointed over this, if they take no action?
I have worked for four parliamentary leaders. If my partner who is a party member did something like that, and I knew about it for two months and didn’t tell anyone in my office, I would absolutely expect to leave the office the day it came out, and not return.
But what the Greens have avoided saying, is who did know. Dr Norman says he did not know, and I take him at his word unless there is evidence to contradict that. But did other staff members in the Greens parliamentary office know? Did any Green MPs know?
And also, who were the 50 activists involved, and how many of then are Green party members or activists? My guess is the vast majority.
A related question is who paid for the commercial printing, and who paid for the distribution of them?
The Greens complained bitterly about the Exclusive Brethren pamphlets in 2005. But at least the Execlusive Brethren complied with the law, and put a name and address on the pamphlets as required.
Green party member Jolyon White has broken at least two laws I would say. The stickers are a form of election advertisement designed to discourage people from voting National. Not only were they not authorised, they were put up in the middle of the night. It is as flagrant a breach of the Electoral Act rules around transparency as you can get. I have no doubt the Electoral Commission will refer the matter to the Police, and hopefully the Police will ascertain how many other people were involved and what roles they hold in the Greens.
There is also the secondary issue of damage and vandalism.
Some will try and claim this was not the Greens, just an isolated party member. But the fact remains that the co-leader’s own executive assistant knew about these plans (and presumably endorsed them), and did nothing to stop them, despite the fact it was obvious if the co-ordinator was identified it would reflect on the Greens. I find it very hard to believe that no one else in the Greens office knew about this.
Remember there is form here. The secret taping of National MPs last election was done by a green (lower g) activist who was living with a Green Party staffer, and Green staff knew he had done it before his identity was made public.
UPDATE: While it is good Russel Norman has said the Greens do not condone vandalism, this press release from 1999 reminds us that they do condone “direct action”, saying it is a right and responsibility.
Related posts:
- Unanswered questions re Jolyon White
- The Wild Greens?
- Greens and corporate hospitality
- The sticker brigade
November 15th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Surely in a situation like this, the Police need to prosecute. What signal will it send if they don’t?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Why was I not surprised to learn this. Normans denials are pathetic. Of course he knew. Its called undenial responsibility.
This moron is standing for office to govern the country. He has the morals and ethics of pond life as do all Greens and Socialists.
Hes a RED just like the rest of the REDS. Communisims dead and buried just like the Greens.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
And yet DPF continues to insist the Greens are fit partners for government!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Sadly thr Police will do nothing until later, later, later, if at all, when it will all be forgotten.
As for Russell Norman – “methinks he doth protest too much” he is either a liar, or incompetent, to say he new nothing about it. Good to deny after the event – Smacks of “Yes Minister”.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Well we know the Police under Broad were lap dogs of Clark. However JK will let them do their job with taking instructions from the 9th Floor.
Remember H2 no longer resides there
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
I’m pretty sure that if it were the PM’s executive assistant’s husband, the PM would claim he wasn’t at the meeting, did not have any advice, hadn’t read the report, was not aware of, was not briefed etc etc etc etc. Given his past behavior, I doubt he would own up and take the responsibility the way Russell has so good on him for that.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Time for all RIGHT minded people to get all over this and pester the left wing media about what they are goingt o do to report on it.
Call up the pollie reporters and get into their ears. The more the merrier. Like wise letters to the Editors baiting them to try and deny the matter.
the MSM will play this down as a nothing event unless we mobilise.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
green troll (jamsteve) – did wussel take responsibility or just try and put out the fire early?
i think you will find he has taken no responsibility, has denied knowing about and is ‘disapointed’ (they got caught).
nice attempt at deflection but the greens facade has finally come down and we can see them for the duplicitous weasels they really are. even the MSM should not be able to ignore this one (like they have ignored so many other things the greens have done).
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
oh dear oh dear oh dear .. the Melons have yet again confirmed themselves of hypocrisy .. were any signs defaced in Riverton I wonder
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Oh god so much popcorn and still two weeks to go…
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Can’t make an omlette without breaking eggs, right comrades?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Whatever – Dr Norman has
(1) Personally apologized to the Prime Minister
(2) Given up the name of the perpetrator
(3) Offered whatever is asked to put the signs right
The Greens are wackos but Dr Norman’s integrity is intact
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
lol @ Murray
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Norman et al cant be trusted. He has no credibility and neither do the Greens.
Its the bloody Gen X and Gen Y who are supporting the Greens. We need to ask these people would they trust Norman et al given this.
Do they believe in good morals and good ethics. the Greens are a bunch of 2 faced anal retentives.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Hey jammy do you have anythign to say about what has actually happened rather than what you would have liked to have happened.
And why is your ip resovling to a greens owned sever?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
@Grendel
Referring to ‘putting out the fire early’ I direct you to the stuff article on this:
“Norman said he was contacted by several party members who heard White talking about the vandalism on Radio New Zealand this morning and recognised his voice.”
He became aware of it this morning and later in the morning:
“Norman said he had spoken to Key this morning to inform him about what he knew and to apologise on behalf of the Green Party.”
Apologizing on behalf of the Green Party and associated people sounds like taking the responsibility to me. Sounds like he knew about it a couple of hours at most before he called the PM. I’ll accuse you right back of deflection by implying Norman knew about this for some time when clearly you have no evidence that this is the case.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Wrong Andrei
Norman was caught out. He knows his number is up and many younger people will not support this behaviour. Thats the only reason the little weasel is grovelling to try and save face.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
I’m inclined to believe Russel Norman on this one. But the really funny thing is that this will knock the ‘teapot tape’ off the top of the headlines. Labour will be spewing, and John and John will be smiling.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
This is comedy gold. Feet both shoot
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Considering these latest antics, coupled with the Greens active manipulation of local media polls a couple of months ago as well as concerted and organised virtual attacks, one is left to ponder if it was all part of one campaign? If it was, then it seems disingenuous at best for the Australian professional pollie to deny involvement.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Whilst the orchestrated Gween comments will try and play this down, the reality is that this is a disgrace.
Can you imagine the hoo-ha if this had been the partner of John Key’s EA orchestrating a campaign of vandalism on all Labour and Gween billboards? The squeals would be heard far and wide and no-one would believe it if the PM came out and suggested that he knew nothing about it…. There would be baying for blood from the usual suspects from the left – all demanding that the EA is sacked.
Hypocrisy is a dish best served cold. And the Gweens are guilty of it on all counts. Beyond any doubt.
Quelle surprise.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Norman and the Greens were caught – which is why he is pleading innocence and ‘we’ll put it right’. Pathetic. What a tosser.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Russell Norman is the Richard Nixon of NZ politics. There is criminality all around him, but we’re supposed to believe that he is “not a crook”.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Murray You’re full of it and you know it. I am nowhere near any computer or network owned or operated by the Greens. Believe it or not, 99.99% of the 10% of the country who support the Greens do not work for them!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Andrei – I agree that Norman has handled it the best way possible, that will help his standing but he has still taken a hit, and the Green brand is both tarnished and exposed.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
I’ll respect Russell Norman a little more if he sacks his EA.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
The Greens don’t ‘sack’ people, they re-educate them
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Is the Anglican Church going to be vilified like the dopey old Exclusive Brethren?
Vote:Or do we excuse them and the Greens. Russel Norman’s damage control doesn’t let him off the hook.
November 15th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
I have as much evidence as the greens did that Brash orchestrated the EB pamphlet drop in 2005 (which was at least legal). i believe they called for brash to resign, so how about it wussell?
just becuase he got on the phone does not mean he did not know, he understands PR and damage control and he knew (because their web system trawls for mentions of them) that Whale knew what had happened.
this is plausible deniability and spin. that someone in charge of a party known for its activism could somehow not know is unlikely. with 50 people involved at least, that is too many people talking for someone in the higher ups of the party to be unaware.
i doubt there is any evidence they officially endorsed it or organised it (they are not that dumb to leave proof, probably), but i bet they knew about it and just let it go, assuming they would not get caught and if they did it would be treated the way every dodgy thing the greens do is, with little notice.
If wussell is taking responsibility, then he should man up and resign on behalf of the greens and in the name of democracry. mps in other countries have quit over much less. but of course his idea of responsibility is platitudes and deflection.
i hope you get a gold star for this jam.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
The EA is the scapegoat here. Of course Norman knew and of course Turei knew what was going on. I know a lot of Parliamentary EA’s and ALL of them ensure that the MP knows what is going on, it is a pivotal part of the role. Big questions are who paid for the labels???
Lest we forget it was just over 10 years ago that Turei stood on the McGillicuddy Serious list – even they didn’t really want her she was listed at either 27 or 28. Once an anarchist always an anarchist.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
David Farrar proclaims:- “It was the Greens!”
Gettin’ a little ahead of ourselves here aren’t we.
Turns out the exec assistant is a member of Greenpeace.
More like a Greenpeace stunt IMO.
Greenpeace ain’t the Green party.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
I believe you jammy.
I also believe Russell Norman.
Shame you both have just shit in your own nest in galactic proportions and the truth actually doesn’t mean dick right now, you all have been busted as the most dishonest bastards is a dishonest game. Congratulations, this slice of irellevance pie is all yours to chew on.
Bye bye now.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Jamsteve
You seriously believe Norman knew nothing of this?
Really?
How could you work with someone on an hourly basis , who organizes your phone calls, meetings ,diary , speeches , in short your life and not discuss (at the very very least) her knowledge and involvement in an event designed to get front page coverage in all the media.
An event that could have massive repercussions for her employer and party.
How can he not know of 50 members or supporters co ordinated mid night nationwide plans to deface an opponents signage and the organizing of the printing and payment of 700 stickers.
Your in cloud cuckoo land mate
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
I give some credit to Russel for going public with this, presumably as soon as he found out.
But those suggesting he voluntarily put this information out there need to think again – read through WhaleOil over the last few days – Slater was very close to outing the people involved. Norman’s actions were damage control.
Also, his offer to help repair the signs, while well-meaning, is a little hollow. The damaged signs near where I live have already been repaired/replaced, and i’m sure that’s the case with most of the signs around the country.
I think if Norman is truly intent on nipping this issue in the bud, he has no choice but to invoke the “irreconcilable differences” clause of his Executive Assistant’s contract, and expel her partner from the party.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Quote from Russel Norman’s web page bio:
““I can get a lot done in the background but because I have such strong feelings I think I tend to get dragged to the forefront. I’m a bit of a troublemaker, I suppose, but then again, there’s a lot to make trouble about!”
Says it all really…………………..
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
@AliIkram
Vote:#votenz will someone deface Labour’s billboards by putting their leader on them?
November 15th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
Vinick.
Russel( Richard Nixon) Norman doesnt deserve any credit. He got caught out. His henchmen and women stuffed up big time.
Thats how it was and how it is.
And as for the church things. There are more sinners inside the church than there are outside.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
I don’t believe that Russel knew about this before today, when the story broke. If he had known earlier I’m sure he would have come clean straight away. And if he had known 2 months ago I’m sure he would have go the whole thing stopped.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
This is pretty disgraceful. But from a political point of view, Norman has shown himself to be a shrewd operator with his handling of the situation. Contrast it with Brash and the exclusive bretheren. In that case Brash and National were in fact far more distant from the activity, which wasnt illegal. But the mud stuck. Or maybe the difference is a function of media bias? Well I guess we will have to see how this plays out.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
First, @lastmanstanding, you’re wrong about the Gen Xers supporting the Greens. I’m officially classed as Gen X and a snowball would have a better chance in hell than me supporting the Greens.
Not sure what planet Scott Chris is on but Jolyon White is a Green Party member, so it was the Greens, and frankly, the Greens are Greenpeace. There’s very little difference between the communists — Watermelons.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Scott Chris at 1:06 pm:
“David Farrar proclaims:- It was the Greens! … Turns out the exec assistant is a member of Greenpeace … Greenpeace ain’t the Green party”
Um, not according to Russel Norman.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766168
“Dr Norman told media this morning Green Party member Jolyon White, the partner of Dr Norman’s executive assistant, was the person who coordinated the defacing.”
*** EDIT: Added link ***
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
I can’t wait for Nicky Hager’s book…
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Oh dear – what a clusterfark for the Greens! Anyone who has spent any time in Parliament or close to a party leader knows that an EA are their political eyes and ears (think Clark and H2). There is almost NOTHING of substance that goes on that the EA doesn’t share with the party leader – one of their many jobs is to prevent surprises like this not to be a party to them! Being no stranger to the dark arts of campaigning in past years, I have no doubt Norman and Turei would’ve given instructions to White to keep this as far off the radar as possible hence the fact that he was caught riding the motorbike stickering one of the posters – not wanting to have too many in the inner circle. The invoice will have been paid in cash no doubt so no trace there. White likely went too far by talking to radio stations as opposed to just issuing an anonymous press release to The Aucklander because NZ is too small and his voice was recognized. The hubris is breathtaking.
It will be difficult for the media to find links to other Green members but I’m sure Whale is up for the job! If any Green Party regional leadership are found to involved, it makes a lie of Norman’s ‘we didn’t know’ mea culpa. The MSM will report the Norman admission and say ‘move along now – nothing more to see’ because so many admire and/or support the Greens.
This is the Green Party’s version of Rodney being caught taking his bit of fluff to London on the taxpayers dime after years of perkbusting. One act of selfish foolishness on his part and one of the main reasons for him and his party being in Parliament was blown away. ACT has never really recovered from that event. One of the Greens’ major electoral appeals is its innocence. This act shows it to be no different to Labour and the unions have indulged in shabby tactics like this for years. If Norman doesn’t sack his EA then any good from his apology will be negated.
Yep – this is the own goal of the campaign so far. As Murray said – so much popcorn and so little time left!!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Russel is handling it OK but the damage is done – such obvious close ties to his own office will make him look guilty by association whether guilty or not. My bollocks detector says he is either very naive or complicit – both a problem for the Greens. This means he needs to escalate in his response if he’s going to be seen as honest. Here the Greens get hoisted by their own painful decision making processes. This needed something sharp and rapid in response to be believable if he’s going to distance himself from this. Too late now.
Kiwis see it as what it is – politically motivated vandalism on an organised scale by the Greens (to all intents and purposes). With the Greens promoting themselves as the nation’s conscience they need to be squeaky clean and anything detracting from that brand will cost votes.
With ‘everyone’ (Labour & Greens) seen as resorting to attacking National one cannot help but feel that it will actually help them.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
I wonder if we can get a video of the left exploding in time to the 1812.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
Huh?
How likely is it that someone would be a member of Greenpeace AND the Green Party?
Only very fucking likely.
What you said was as silly as saying of a similar situation involving a Labour member, “Turns out the exec assistant was a member of a Union. More like a Union stunt IMO.”
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
# graham (137) Says:
November 15th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Scott Chris at 1:06 pm:
“David Farrar proclaims:- It was the Greens! … Turns out the exec assistant is a member of Greenpeace … Greenpeace ain’t the Green party”
Um, not according to Russel Norman.
“Dr Norman told media this morning Green Party member Jolyon White, the partner of Dr Norman’s executive assistant, was the person who coordinated the defacing.”
Hey guess what: FAIL Scott.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
I would love to see the trading on an iPredict market on whether a Green MP was actually involved in the stickering!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Its only a matter of days before we see the “Downfall” parodies!!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Kiwi in America, you say ‘one act of foolishness on his part’ and by ‘his’ I think you mean Russel Norman. I’m not aware of Russel having made a foolish act in this episode. As far as I can see he has handled it extremely well. Green Party members recognised Jolyon White’s voice on breakfast TV this morning. The leadership was alerted and they immediately fronted to the media and apologised.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Is Jolyon White still employable do you think?
Vote:I assume this is the guy?
http://www.anglicare.org.nz/Staff/Jolyon-White
November 15th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
@jamsteve
“Believe it or not, 99.99% of the 10% of the country who support the Greens do not work for them!”
Wrong again. If that were true there would only be about 30 people in total working for the Greens. I’m sure that you weren’t lying, but just like all left wingers, you have trouble with numbers.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Very poor from the Greens, whether Norman knew or not! They have over time made themselves appeal to more of a mainstream audience and not be seen as the hippies and activists as they once were. Then some of their members do stupid things like this. They should, given how poor Labour are, get the biggest number of seats they have ever had this election. This may just lose them a few voters that were beginning to lean their way.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Well then you vote for him mick buckley random impartial citizen with two comments who in no way coincides with Nomans damage control plan.
The rest of us are laughing too hard to fill out the ballot.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
LAWL
Election billboards are now serious business. Who’d a thought huh?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Troll murray.
I’ll put this as simply as possible for you.
Jolyon White carried out this act. This is beyond dispute.
She is a member of the Green Party. (hardly surprising considering she’s married to one of them)
She is a member of Greenpeace.
The question is whether she carried out this act as a member of Greenpeace, or as a member of the Green Party.
For her to have carried it out on behalf of the Green Party, it would have to have been sanctioned and paid for by the party. That is what we are waiting to find out.
Simple.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
The Greens condone direct action… and they supported the EFA. Something is wrong here….
Watermellons… no more no less. NZ deserves a real environmental party not some closet socialist gits using the environment to push their socialist agenda.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
About 40, surely?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
I can see National coming out of this [slightly] poorer –
National, the party that complained to the cops about journos taping audio at a NACT publicity event they were invited to attend.
Then in the same week complained to the cops about someone putting stickers up on their roadside hoardings.
Vote for thin-lipped little narks and complainers… vote National!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
Fail Scott, you fail.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
mick buckley
On Green Party duty I see. You clearly didnt read my first post which also tells us you are clueless as to what Executive Assistants (particularly to small party leaders) do. They run the office but the more mundane administrative tasks are handled by secretaries. It is almost inconceivable that an operation of this scale run by his EA’s partner would not be known about in Norman’s entire office. The Greens are not like National or Labour with an elaborate head office operation somewhat divorced from their MPs staff. The staff of the Green MPs (except for the lowly secretaries) will all be an integral part of their campaign. If what you and Norman allege is true, that he truly didn’t know, then its naive incompetence on a grand scale. What is to be mick – a party leader with his closest trusted staff lying and covering up scullduggery right under his nose or a willful act of political vandalism done with his full knowledge butwith a pathetic attempt at plausible deniablity. I don’t know which looks the worst.
Your 2 comments on KB are a dead give away that your sole purpose for being here is Green Party spin duty.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
Kimble says:- “What you said was as silly as saying of a similar situation involving a Labour member, “Turns out the exec assistant was a member of a Union. More like a Union stunt IMO.”
You are conflating the paid party member with his partner in this analogy. Doesn’t work.
edit: lol @ Troll murray’s ~witty rejoinder~
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
So she resigned one membership before engaging in the act?
If 90% of Green Party members are also members of Greenpeace, but only 30% of Greenpeace members are member of the Green Party, then surely it is more likely that she engaged in the overtly political enterprise (which included economic as well as environmental slander) as a Green Party member (who are as well known for their economic policies as their environmental ones) than Greenpeace (who are most well known for their stance on the environment).
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Either Norman was fully aware of this activity or he entirely failed to control his own team.
He is done as a leader of any kind. Slink off back to oz and join the other failed ginga poli Julia.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
All I did was change the word “Greenpeace” to “Union”.
The rest is yours.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
RRM
Vote:Your Labour spin makes Baghad Bob look like a purveyor of accurate truth.
November 15th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Jolyon White is male.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Sacked because a relation defacing hoardings, nah.
Sacked for supporting this corrupt prick, fuck yeah.
Sharples stands by aide who promised to help in return for money
A key aide to a Government minister asked for money in an email that also discussed putting “political pressure” on an issue.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
Vandalism of billboards is undemocratic.
Anyone who does (on both sides) deserves to live in North Korea or China so they get a clue.
(It was obviously Labour or Green affiliates, but somehow I’m less surprised by it being the Greens.)
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
“# RightNow (3,401) Says:
November 15th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Jolyon White carried out this act. This is beyond dispute.
She is a member of the Green Party.
Jolyon White is male.”
Yeah i did say fail Rightnow. Happily for the amusment of the audience Fail Scott doesn’t let a small thing like being consistantly utterly wrong stop his mouth.
You’re up Fail Scott, take this shotgun and go for the foot….
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
The original “protester” statement:
“The Prime Minister believes in transparency. He says he doesn’t lie. We’re happy to help.”
Irony aside, I wonder how much transparency and non-lying they will help with now?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Rightnow says:- “Jolyon White is male.”
Oops. My bad.
edit: lol @ Troll murray coming up with his own ideas. Try adding to the debate you silly gargoyle. All you do is fuck it up.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
I tend to believe Norman. You want deniability from your Leader if you are going to run a black op. But this is clearly an organized effort, and even if Norman didn’t know, probably half of the Green activists in the country were in on it.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
RRM>Vote for thin-lipped little narks and complainers… vote National!
Similarly, what was all the fuss involving the police and the Watergate burglars? The Democrats should just have sucked it up and carried on once Nixon told everyone that he, like Norman, was not a crook.
And why all the fuss about News International hacking voicemail? Why involve the police? If the people hacked had nothing to hide then they should be happy to have their conversations and messages transcribed and released to the media. In fact, their involving the police is just evidence that they must have been up to no good and they’re trying to cover up their wrongdoing.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Hey Fail Scott, get fucked.
I’ll stop pointing out you’re a party whore the instant you stop talking shit in an attempt to to misdirect.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
The Greens have some form for this sort of thing – the Corngate fiasco. I think there were Greens involved in the publication of Nicky Hagar’s book, through Craig Potton who, if memory serves, was actually a Green candidate at the time.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
david@tokyo says:- “Vandalism of billboards is undemocratic.”
Without doubt. As is manipulating the vote in Epsom.
As is surreptitiously recording conversations.
It’s a dirty business, politics.
edit: Lol @ Troll Murray continuing to troll.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
bahaha idiot gweens
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Without doubt. As is manipulating the vote in Epsom.
But not in Wigram?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
The Greens don’t seem to regard criminal damage as vandalism:
Vote:http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/wild-greens-not-vandals
November 15th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Oh dear,
There goes an obsolute classic.
Scott Chris the self appointed policeman of Kiwiblog telling someone else to try adding to the debate.
This from Scott who constantly refferrs to others as, racists, trolls, siily gargoyles, etc.
Someone recently described WScott as a ‘crapweasel’
Crapweasel defined on the onlineslang dictionary as,
A person who is a jerk, asshole, butt munch etc.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
The Greens don’t seem to regard politically-motivated criminal damage as vandalism:
Vote:http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/wild-greens-not-vandals
November 15th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Oh dear Scott.
Is this what its come to?
Namecalling: CHECK
Peace and love.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
I have free rent in his head davinci, hell he even keeps calling me names long after I’ve gone home. Hes not a very focused troll.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Bevan says:- “But not in Wigram”
Yup, just like Wigram. As I said, it’s a dirty business.
Hi Dav, hi Beryl.
Whaddya reckon about the actual thread topic here?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Just more criminal vandalism Scott.
But society doesn’t seem to worry about that anymore, sadly. Its political, therefore its OK.
Apart from that, I find the whole business extremely funny.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
From http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/campaign-trail/5967550/Green-party-link-to-billboard-attacks
Contrast John Key’s response (that of taking Russell Norman’s word at face value and accepting it, well at least at this point in time) …. to say that of Phil Goof and the Labour Party if they were the target, instead they would be condemning the entire Green Party and their Leadership and publically saying they would be “liars” to not know etc.
Hmmmm….oh here’s a naughty thought, I wonder if Labour will wish to exploit this incident as well to try and claw back Labour voters who were defecting to the Greens? If so the Greens better get their guard up against Labour (rather than National)!
How ironic! Crickey at the rate the nation’s popcorn supplies will run out before the election!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Ah, the loathsome Luddites.
Vote:Few could believe the weasel words of the watermelon leader denying knowledge of the offending tactics.
November 15th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
BlairM: Agreed. There would have been no need for Norman to know about this – particularly when it was made clear from the party early on that this was to be a clean campaign. It appears, then (if we take Norman at his word) that the EA has decieved through not disclosing her knowledge. This is inexcusable and she’ll have to be censured – the consequences will be interesting, as will how it’s handled in the media.
I don’t think this will alter how anyone who’s made up their mind to vote Green will vote – the decideds will basically agree with the sentiment expressed in the defaced hoardings even if they disagree with the manner in which it was done. It may well make a difference to those that may have been considering Green but had not yet decided.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
This story is a disgrace. This is what pisses me off about ‘activists’ on all sides this beleif that the end justifies the means.
The EA should be sacked, gross betrayal of trust and completely innapropriate.
The clown with the stupid name who led this should lose his job at the Anglican church.
(Actually both of the above should have already offered their resignations, the fact they have not speaks poorly of their character).
The police and electoral commision should follow their processes and if they deem it appropriate charge whoever they need to.
Like DPF I take Russell Norman at his word when he says he wasn’t told – I can’t imagine how it would be in his interest to support a stunt like that. He should welcome any police or parliamentary enquiry, if he has nothing to hide then he has nothing to fear and it would help clear his name.
And yes – I say all that as a Green Party member. This stupid action has also been a huge act of vandalism against an otherwise clean and positive campaign that a lot of people have worked very hard for.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Scott
I should have added that we are not yet at the really funny bit, given Key’s acceptance of the melon offer to help tidy up the billboards. Looking forward to that.
Hopefully we’ll be treated to footage of earnest members of the melon brigade gritting their teeth as they restore the Nat billboards to their former glory.
Who knows – maybe Wussell will engage in a spot of photo op restoration!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Scott Chris,
Politics is dirty yes, but vandalism of opponents’ hoardings denies those candidates the ability to get their messages out unmolested.
I don’t see how a strategical political meeting can be compared, and the illegal recording by the news media is a different sort of issue IMO.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
“And yes – I say all that as a Green Party member. This stupid action has also been a huge act of vandalism against an otherwise clean and positive campaign that a lot of people have worked very hard for.”
Fair enough Richard. I guess this demonstrates that no matter how hard the Greens leadership wish to move slightly to the Centre, there will be some activists undermining those efforts ….
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
lefty
Vote:Its about momentum – the Greens had it. This incident reverses it and switches Norman from happy pure innocent enviro image making soft campaigning to full on damage control against the hypocrisy AND incompetence memes. Trust me as someone who’s run campaigns – this is the incident from hell! The Greens lack the on the ground capacity to GOTV so they are very heavily reliant on media coverage (which is usually positive and kind to them) to achieve this. To bust out of its activist environmentalist and urban ‘want to feel good’ base they need to attract young Labour and unengaged National voting soccer mums with a conscience types. This keeps the former at home and scares the latter away.
November 15th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Richard29
I’m inclined to believe Norman as well. One of the things that distinguishes the melon rabble from the Rena Party rabble is that they are far more intelligent. They would likely have known what his response would be, particularly in light of the close connection through his EA.
Contrast that with Mallard et al; would have all been pissing themselves with laugter at the prospect.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
thedavincimode says:- “I should have added that we are not yet at the really funny bit, given Key’s acceptance of the melon offer to help tidy up the billboards. Looking forward to that.”
Ha! Yes, I can picture it now. Luc Hansen and MyNameIsJack up a ladder adding value to Brand Key.
Like a few other commenters have mentioned, this election just gets better and better.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
davidp – Yeah because this is similar in its gravity to millions in fraud, right?
KIA – my what spin? I’m not voting for Labour. But I AM laughing at all this righteous outrage!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Regardless whether White is a Greepeace member or a Green Party member, I think what makes this vandalism particularly bad is that it required the willing and organised participation of dozens of people all over the country.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
david@tokyo says:- “denies the candidates ability to…”
Yes I see what you mean now. Defacing the billboards has more serious anti-democratic undertones. I doubt that was the message though. Vandals are rarely that sophisticated.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
In similar news –
Last night while I was out & about I drove past a National billboard; I couldn’t see if it was stickered but someone with a spray can had ‘edited’ it so that John Key was orally pleasuring a massive black cock.
I CBF saying where, National lieutenants can find it & fix it on their own since they are so precious about the welfare of their hoardings.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
He will be hoping resignations end there, but he’s got himself, his partner and the Greens into a right bit of schtuck.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Richard29, this is hugely disappointing for Green supporters but I don’t think Jolyon White and his crew are representative of Green activists. The Greens have always tried to have clean and positive campaigns. This one is no different which is what makes today’s news so disappointing.
Vote:And as far as billboards go my experience is that activists from all political parties in NZ play it very fair indeed. The billboards usually go up at the same or similar locations and there are lots of opportunities to cheat by plonking your billboard in front of your rival’s, or worse. But to the credit of the volunteers on all sides as far as I can tell foul play like that is very rare.
November 15th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Interesting that our democracy is that tenuous that an election can potentially swing on one harebrained idea of someone possibly not directly involved in a party. A number of careers at stake, many people’s futures at stake, possibly the direction of the country at stake.
We’re in that fickle last two weeks where anything could happen still, polls are just a rough idea at snapshots in time.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
The little weasel Norman has offered to repair the nats billboards. GREAT I want to see the little weasel out there being flimed by the left wing biased MSM doing just that.
But it wont happen Because he wont and they wont. Both are gutless wastes of oxygen
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Toad? Toad?
TOAD!
Where are you?
TTTTTTOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAD?????
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
RIGHT RRM So if I vandalise your lots billboards thats OK by YOU No it aint You like all 2 faced anal retentives would be screaming blue murder and demanding the cops lock me up.
Trouble is moron You can dish it out but you cant take it back.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Greens will be lucky to hit double figures on 26th. Good
And Socialists will be lucky to hit 30 Good.
And the RIGHT PARTY will be north of 50. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@felixmarwick
Vote:Jolyon White has resigned from the Greens over billboard vandalism. His partner has been stood down from @RusselNorman ‘s office
November 15th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
As a long time National voter I thought it was a most amusing and well executed vandalism. Much better than the traditional crudely scrawled facial hair or giant cock previously alluded to.
There was a certain professionalism in the choice of font and colourmatching. I sniggered at the “rich deserve more” slogan and laughed out loud at the “Drill it! Mine It! Sell it!”. Were there any more I missed?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Well buggeration, google supports what you say about Craig Potton’s role in the dishonest little Corngate charade. I was going to give the entire extended family his desk calendars for Christmas, would have bought them yesterday but didn’t have quite enough in the bank account at that stage. Will have to think of something else now.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
wawot (3) Says: “As a long time National voter… ”
Bollocks.
More like another leftard assigned to comment on Kiwiblog…
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@PG “The man who co-ordinated the defacing of National Party billboards has resigned as a member of the Green Party.”
Resigning “membership”?
Is that because Mr White fell on his sword, was told to resign by Dr Norman, or has resigned so he can continue with these “attacks” without any official connection to the Green Party?
Incidentally the Greens have a co-leadership system. It’s fine for Russell to say he had no knowledge … but what about Ms Turei….?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Elaycee (1,642) Says: “Bollocks. More like another leftard assigned to comment on Kiwiblog…”
OK I’ve only voted National in the last 4 elections (once I found myself well into the top tax bracket), however that doesn’t mean that I have lost my sense of humor or that I feel the need to keep my sphincter permanently tightly clenched.
Just ‘cos I vote National doesn’t mean I have to love everything they do and think Key is the Son of God. Just ‘cos I vote National doesn’t mean i have to hate everything about the Greens.
It was a very amusing bit of vandalism and to get so defensive and upset about it makes it look like it hit a raw nerve.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
I’m not sure what Scott’s tactic is here but the fact is that White is/was a member of the Greens and his “partner” was the EA to Norman. That means that this WAS a Green Party actions, even If they did not officially endorse it or even know about it. Trying to shift this to Greenpeace is absurd pseudo-logic, as is trying to compare it to perfectly legal and legitimate tactical voting in Epsom.
The other issue here is the Anglican Church, which is my church. For far too long the so-called social justice wing has been dominated by the extreme left and has been given a virtual monopoly within the church in defining what constitutes political and economic justice.
This is unacceptable and morally wrong. There needs to be far more debate and for more genuine political diversity in the church and the social justice “enablers” should be sacked. Left wing political activists should operate as individuals, NOT as church sponsered and paid representatives of the Anglican Church.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Once the matter got out into the public Norman had no choice but to go into damage control The perpetrator was very close to his office as his wife works as Norman’s Chief of Staff. That mainlines the issue right to Russell Norman especially as he does support direct action.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Well in terms of mine it, drill it, sell it, National did actually announce an expansion of mining and drilling as a policy this morning. Furthermore, their tax cuts did disproportionately favour the rich. So really, they should be happy that some other party’s activists have promoted their policies for them.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@RRM
Found it and fixed already. Just as we had previously found and cleaned a swastika from a Greens hoarding (and also a painted moustache from a Grant Robertson hoarding.)
Perhaps because we CBF (and not just for ourselves, unlike some perhaps…)
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Lee01>I’m not sure what Scott’s tactic is here but the fact is that White is/was a member of the Greens and his “partner” was the EA to Norman.
Norman and the Vandal-Organiser are friends on Facebook. Have they met recently? If so, what did they discuss? Why is this information being kept secret?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
awb “their tax cuts did disproportionately favour the rich” – actually not, mostly they favoured ‘the rich’ in absolute dollar value, but favoured ‘the poor’ in percentage (proportionate) terms – excepting those who are net tax beneficiaries rather than net tax payers.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Lee01
“the fact is that White is/was a member of the Greens and his “partner” was the EA to Norman. That means that this WAS a Green Party actions”
Do you realise just how stunningly stupid that comment is?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
“That means that this WAS a Green Party actions, even If they did not officially endorse it or even know about it.”
This is one of the most amusing assertions I have ever heard.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Where’s that little Toady boy?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Bullshit. They were Green Party members, promoting Green Party propaganda. Ergo, this WAS a Green Party action. Just because Norman and co didin’t know, or so they claim, changes nothing.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
It seems that Robyn Malcolm is as mad as hell and cannot take it anymore!
http://tvnz.co.nz/election-2011/robyn-malcolm-attacks-idiotic-billboard-tactics-4537497
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Hey Lee01 (1,620) when you say…
“The other issue here is the Anglican Church, which is my church. For far too long the so-called social justice wing has been dominated by the extreme left and has been given a virtual monopoly within the church in defining what constitutes political and economic justice. This is unacceptable and morally wrong.”
…had it ever occurred to you that you’re part of religion whose founder was such an extreme lefty social justice activist that he got executed for it?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
This isn’t an issue Key should push a complaint over. Norman has fronted with an apology, Key needs to take the high road and let it go.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Oh please, I have heard that kind of trendy lefty crap for years.
Jesus was executed for blasphemy, because he claimed to be the Messiah. He was not executed for opposing asset sales.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
@wawot – if you are the same ‘wawot’ [you can look up the acronym] who has posted on other blogs, then the chances that you are (a) in the top tax bracket and (b) a National supporter, would be very limited. As in Nada. Nil. Zero. Zip.
But continue to dream on if you wish….
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Lastmoronstanding –
I would be screaming blue murder like the Nat lot actually are, now would I?
YOU and YOUR use of CAPS are a bit UNHINGED aren’t you?
I suggest that YOU crawl BACK under your ROCK and have a nice cuppa TEA… (instead of throwing ‘moron’ around)
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
@watwat
Don’t worry about Elaycee. She thinks that anyone attempting to be objective is a commie liberal.
Fortunately her vitriolic attacks are not officially representative of the National party, just as Jolyon White is not an official representative of the Green Party as far as I know.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Lee01 says:- “I’m not sure what Scott’s tactic is here”
No tactics Lee. I just don’t see things in terms of Black and White as you do, or, in this case, Green and Blue.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@lee01 – right wing Christians crack me up
@elaycee – well into 6 figures actually (although my accountants get it down to 80 something for tax purposes). You should post stuff on that The Standard blog. It’s like as it opens in the browser you get all these bits of spittle flying into your face from the irrational vitriol spewing forth – would suit your style. Oh, also I know Mr White – he’s a very nice chap.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
If the Greens really are so pleased with their campaign slogans and the traction they are/were getting, why would they have to vandalise their opponents signs?
Possibly because “Building a brighter future” is actually real and not a idealogical theory like “For a richer NZ – Vote Greens”
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
wawot
Hmm – six comments pretty much all related to the Greens billboard defacing issue. On orders from Green Party central to take a new tack – humour – laugh it off and then disguise yourself as a rich prick Nat. Sorry – you Greens have been caught astroturfing before and now after being caught in a damaging co-ordinated nationwide campaign to deface National’s billboards you are all desperate to deflect attention by trying to minimise the electoral damage.
Sorry mate – if you’d been on here even perhaps since the beginning of the campaign and expressed centre rightish views with the odd nod to the left (like Peter George) we’d be more inclined to go with this ‘benefit of the doubt – funny childish prank’ line. You and mike buckley are too co-incidental to be true. At least Scott Chris and Black with a Vegence make their left leaning tilt pretty obvious and back it up with consistent and persistent comments on KB threads.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@ polemic – are you saying that “building a Brighter Future” is to be taken literally?
Is there going to be more light bulbs installed around the country or something? Is it going to be brighter in the day and night? Do I need to invest in thicker curtains?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
wawot: Haha – usually, people who earn in the figures you purport, don’t actually feel any need to declare it. In fact, the people that spout about the amount they earn, invariably earn far less than they would wish. In fact, they would most likely belong to a ragtag outfit such as ‘workers against war on terror’ or something equally pathetic.
Now that wouldn’t be you, would it?
“Oh, also I know Mr White… ” Whoopdee doo… The point is???
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
I’m just wondering – the Executive Assistant has supposedly been stood down, is that with or without pay? For how long – I will be interested to see whether she is re-instated after the election.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
“Oh, also I know Mr White – he’s a very nice chap.”
Reservoir Dogs moment. I think wawot has earned the nickname Mr Pink
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
The stickering was negative campaigning – the sort of thing EB did in 2005 as this meant it did not come under the National Party spending cap. This was a form of iwi/kiwi – placing the riposte to the National promotion on their billboards – thus of course why the National ad was not defaced or covered up, only responded to.
Third party activity is allowed, within financial limits it does not have to be declared, above them it needs to be.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@Elaycee: Assuming wawot is the same as from the standard, then they appear to be anti-Labour policy at least, which suggests they’re not pro-Green policy – you have some others? (I couldn’t be arsed past the first page on google…)
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Personally I’d rather be favoured in absolute dollar value than in a percentage. In the end that’s what counts.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
OMG – Here’s one of your own, rejoicing in some billboard vandalism… Quick – Stone her!
http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/2011/11/best-hoarding-vandalism.html#links
Yes all this quelle outrage is a bit ridiculous isn’t it?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Russell Norman supports direct action, up until some protester chucked a brick through his Auckland electorate office window last election – only THEN was he not fond of direct action: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10491361
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Thrash C – would you also support paying taxes in absolute dollar value rather than in a percentage? What annual absolute dollar value do you think every New Zealander should pay?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
I wonder what the comparison is between the number of billboards defaced with marking over them, the number of billboards smashed, or moved by others/other groups compared to the number simply stickered?
And the extent to which all these events are investigated.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Seems like the name ‘Jolyon White’ is mud. I feel sorry for anyone other than the accused with the name ‘Jolyon’
Vote:But then if your name is ‘Jolyon’ you have a special name for a special reason right?
November 15th, 2011 at 7:10 pm
“Jesus was executed for blasphemy, because he claimed to be the Messiah. He was not executed for opposing asset sales.”
Lol, nice one
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
Is it blasphemy to oppose asset stripping the public estate for private profit within the National Party?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
Just channel flicking and caught this bloke being interviewed.
A thoroughly self-absorbed, selfish, hypocritical twat.
“We were exercising our free speech.”
Apparently only Greens are to be allowed free speech.
Young people like him are drawn to fascism like flies to shit.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
It is blasphemy to oppose asset stripping the public estate for private profit within the National Party
Yeah i think that’s in the opening chapter of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of National, along with…
‘Thou shalt have no other false gods before John Key’.
and…
‘If you don’t have anything nice to say about John Key. Shut your goddamn mouth before he lays a complaint against you with the police.’
Recently unearthed, the Protocols include plans to subvert the morals of the non-National party world, plans for National party aligned bankers to control the world’s economies, plans for National Party control of the press, and – ultimately – plans for the destruction of civilization.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
I was just pointing out the silliness behind the idea that the poorer people in this society benefited more than the wealthier because they got a greater percentage of the tax cuts. Percentages aren’t everything.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
lol BWAV. Problem is there’s bugger all others to vote for that won’t fuck everything up worse. Better the devil I know…
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Wawat was an ancient settlement in Nubia.
Watwat is what Captain Mannering used to say in Dad’s Army.
Unlikely to be the same person.
Personally I think people should be nicer to noobs on Kiwiblog. After all, one of the tenets of the right is to be polite and accommodating, isn’t it? Aren’t we gentle men gentlemen?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
Thrash – I find it sillier to suggest that someone contributing $1000 p/a in tax should get a $1000 p/a tax cut because someone paying $100,000 p/a in tax did.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
Scott Chris – the noobs are often not what they seem..
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:57 pm
Methinks that the Green party spokespersons speak with forked tongues. I just do not believe that this was a well kept in house secret. Tui hoarding please.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
One can never really know the devil, cos the thing is, you only know what the devil wants you to know….
…unless there’s a hidden microphone nearby
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
I love the smell of lefty desperation in the morning. Smells like…. outright victory for the Nats!
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Good grief, Radio NZ Checkpoint interviews Sue Bradford and when asked, if she was a Green Party co-leader would she apologise to National over this incident?
Sue Bradford: “I certainly wouldn’t and I certainly wouldn’t be dobbing in Green Party member or members…”.
Strangely enough Mary Wilson cuts Sue Bradford off before too long (perhaps even Mary Wilson can see Sue Bradford is an embarasment to the Left (in terms of public perception) and not helping their election chances ……?)
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2502639/what-sue-bradford-thinks-of-billboard-defacing.asx
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
“One can never really know the devil” – on what basis are you assuming there is only one devil? I say everyone can have a devil – several if they want.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
I think Robyn Malcolm is pissed off (like Russell appears to be) because both can see the damage this incident has caused to the reputation of the Green Party with the wider population. Just when they are polling above 10%.
However, Robyn Malcolm should reflect upon her attacks on John Key & National recently, because she was (intentionally/unintentionally) giving the signal to the Party faithful that attack-politics is ok. Sure maybe not billboard defacing, but nonetheless ….
I also think Russell is having trouble containing the activists (like Phil Goof is having trouble controlling his rabble).
And again why is Meteria silent?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
@Elaycee seeing as you ask the point is:
It’s ok to vote National and have a sense of humour
It’s ok to vote National and know – even be friends – with people who vote Green or are Green candidates
It’s ok to vote National and have a relaxed sphincter
It’s ok to vote National even though you don’t like all their policies
Due to the joys of the internet you have no idea who I am or vice versa (you could be a 12 year old girl from Clive – or the awful Helen Clark for all I know). So surely logical discussion of ideas is far more interesting than “that person doesn’t agree with everything I say so they must be a pinko” discussions which tend to get tiresome.
Anyway I still think the ‘vandalism’ was very amusing. Also I LOL again when Key said on 3 News something about the “…disruption to his hoarding programme”
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
It is just not possible that Norman or the female co leader did not know about this. Wuss and Turei are telling lies.
This story has legs.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
wawot – Clearly I mix with a better standard of person than your ‘Mr White’ (or whatever name he chooses next week) but each to their own, I suppose.
And no – I’m definitely not Helen Clark. I don’t tell porkies / I haven’t stolen an election using taxpayer funds / I don’t put my name to paintings that I didn’t paint / I’d never tell a driver to take a conviction for the team if they were caught speeding / I’ve never had a photo of myself airbrushed and most important – my wife (Mrs Elaycee) is very much female!
But I’ve never met a genuine centre right supporter who discusses his / her salary or their taxation advice in a public forum. In fact, the only people who I’ve ever met who brayed about their salary etc, were actually full of shit and batted for the left. And I still suspect that’s where your allegiance lies. Your opening shot on this thread (3.28pm) set the tone and you have progressed steadily downhill ever since.
A National / centre right supporter? Cue: Tui billboard.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
wawot = commie troll. fact.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
The on-going story is how many billboards are defaced or damaged/removed in the average campaign – and how many cases are ever investigated.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
@RRM,
I have to say I am quite disappointed in your attitude today.
Our team – my team – in Wellington Central are actively looking for damage to our opponents signs every time we make a sweep of our hoardings sights in the electorate. We do this at least once a day. Where we spot damage we report it back to those campaign teams and often make temporary repairs.
James, for one, is a decent man who deserves the respect we show – and which he reciprocates. I wonder, perhaps, if you might be able to learn something from him.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
JamSteve wrote “Believe it or not, 99.99% of the 10% of the country who support the Greens do not work for them!”
NZClassicLiberal replied: “Wrong again. If that were true there would only be about 30 people in total working for the Greens. I’m sure that you weren’t lying, but just like all left wingers, you have trouble with numbers.”
Actually, there are fewer than 30 people working for the Greens.
Kiwi In America wrote”You clearly didnt read my first post which also tells us you are clueless as to what Executive Assistants (particularly to small party leaders) do. They run the office but the more mundane administrative tasks are handled by secretaries.”
KIA may claim to be knowledgable about such matters, but he or she clearly doesn’t know how the Green Parliamentary office is run. There is no hierarchy of ‘Executive Assistants’ and ‘Secretaries’ – the ‘Executive Assistants’ are secretaries.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 11:11 pm
One point overlooked is that the stickers are removable.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 11:18 pm
Actually, there are fewer than 30 people working for the Greens.
So how come between the 30 of you, you manage to spout so much complete and utter mentalness, kahikatea?
I mean your policies really, really stink, lest one misunderstand.
In that, they aren’t based on the real world as it works today and even if they were, it wouldn’t matter for their premises are based apparently, upon all the voters suddenly turning into guitar-playing cross-legged hippies in a sixties sit-in. It’s just that I’m afraid kahikatea, that’s just not going to ever happen however much you and your mates would just love it to.
Er..
Sorry?
I know you’re trying to change yourselves. Yes, I know. Long and hard, isn’t it. That battle to see the light. At last.
..
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
So what we’re saying is that a well executed plan, which involved money, nationwide planning, networking and numbers was created from the same place as the office of the leader of the Green Party and we are to believe that Russell knew absolutely nothing about it?
Really?
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
Small detail, but the person who organised it did not work for the Green Party, but was the partner of someone who was an exec/sec.
Vote:November 15th, 2011 at 11:32 pm
@SPC
They are about as removable as tar is from a car’s bodywork. Only the printing on the sign can’t stand up to the solvent and rubbing.
I’m not on your “side”, but I think the best your crew could do is “suck eet up” and accept it was a flawed plan, executed by ignoramuses, instead of trying to defend the indefensible.
Otherwise all you are doing is shrinking the size of your caucus. Now I, ordinarily, wouldn’t mind, but I think you might have a couple of people further down the list that would be assets to the Parliament as a whole, but they need support of over 10% to get there. [It is easy for me to support them as the party vote support to get them will come from Labour, not us.]
Your attempted deflection and dissembling isn’t helping them (or you – by extension.)
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 1:18 am
SPC
yeah and pigs can fly.
what bollocks.
Russell can skite till the cows come home but his ea will get a new start after the election whilst he just denies denies.
Vote:It was planned by greens, financed by greens and operated by greens.
I’m waiting for the lists of all the operators and their affiliations to be made open.
November 16th, 2011 at 4:06 am
kahikatea
If you are claiming that Russell Norman’s office is run in a ‘all for one and one for all’ hippy commune job sharing warm fuzzy kibbutz style then that makes it MORE likely that everyone including Norman knew about this. The fact that Anna Hines got her husband the Social Justice activist for the Anglican church to do the dirty work merely sets up Norman’s plausible deniablity. The small numbers of Green workers and activists you say are part of their team again makes it HIGHLY likely that everyone knew what was going down. Look I’ve been on the inside of campaigns and know how stuff like this gets done. What they did was text book – get someone one step removed from the party to do the actual deed and when caught claim “I know nothing”.
Just face it, your party has tried to occupy the moral high ground for electoral advantage and you’ve been caught playing dirty like all the rest. Just own it and stop claiming some rogue unconnected random do gooding Green leaning network operating entirely without the knowledge of this small non heirarchical party’s leadership was responsible.
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 6:33 am
So the Exclusive Brethren’s shennanighans would turn out to be acceptable ‘direct action’ if the Greens had done it.
Interesting.
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 7:11 am
This like the teapot affair is irrelevant to the election and simply a distraction. Move on. If key keeps performing like this I am seriously going to look at moving my vote away from national. He is starting to look like a prat
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 8:33 am
kiwi in america (1,568) Says:
November 16th, 2011 at 4:06 am
“kahikatea
If you are claiming that Russell Norman’s office is run in a ‘all for one and one for all’ hippy commune job sharing warm fuzzy kibbutz style then that makes it MORE likely that everyone including Norman knew about this. ”
No, I wasn’t trying to suggest that Russel Norman had a huge office full of people sharing EA and secretary responsibilities. like every the Green MP, he has one EA, who is also a secretary (except now he doesn’t, because she has been stood down, because it turns out she knew that her boyfriend in Christchurch was planning something illegal).
“The fact that Anna Hines got her husband the Social Justice activist for the Anglican church to do the dirty work merely sets up Norman’s plausible deniablity. The small numbers of Green workers and activists you say are part of their team again makes it HIGHLY likely that everyone knew what was going down.”
I said there was a small number of employees. There are heaps of activists, who easily outnumber the employees. But “m not sure that I’d even say Jolyon White was a Green Party activist – I’ve never met him at a party conference. He was just a guy in Christchurch who Russel’s EA was dating.
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 8:37 am
I am possibly the only person commenting here who KNOWS how close the relationship between and MP and his or her EA is…someone way up in this thread says that the EA organizes your life – absolutely correct. It is also part of the job description – as someone else said – to be your eyes and ears; to pick up what is being said about you by your enemies, and more importantly, by your “friends”, such as Heather Roy. It is part of the job description to report back ANYTHING the EA is aware of that can harm you.
And the relationship goes two ways; one hears the phone conversations made by the EA – or at least some of them. You know – or at least are entitled to know – where she is at any time, at least during the business day. You are entitled to know what any conversation was about, unless it is of a strictly personal nature. An MP needs to know whether his or her EA is loyal and competent, and not – for example – feeding damaging information or misinformation about you to your enemies, or worse still, to your “friends” (see above)
As to the employment issue smokescreen being run by Norman – good one Russell, but no cigar.He is correct that it is improper, and possibly illegal, to sack the EA without a proper enquiry. That said, the normal requirements of employment law differ signficantly when an MP is the employer. Russell could decide – today – that this woman is “incompatible” with him, and she is gone by lunchtime, at least from HIS office if not from Parliamentary Services.
It is inconcievable that the EA is able to prove that she knew absolutley nothing about what her partner was doing when he organized at least the pick up (if not the printing) of the stickers, and the distribution of them among the various hirsute and smelly Green Party supporters who did the sticking – even if Jolyon did not do some of it himself.
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 9:38 am
Is the media going to ask some more probing questions about this SCANDAL??
When did Turia know about it?
A vote for the Greens is a vote vandalism?
When did “Freedom of Speech” transform into “Freedom to Vandalise”?
Is it right to deface your oppostions signs just because you dont agree with them?
Why is the National Party not complaining to the Police?
If they dont then they are condoning vandalism and graffitti for all?
If a graffiti artist can spray on the windows and wall of a company he doesnt like – would it be right to report it to the Police if you know who had done it?
What is the difference if the graffitti is done very professionally?- Is it right?
A vandal jumped on John Keys limo one day – was it right and legal?
Should he have been reported? – What is the difference? It is either legal or illegal.
If it is legal for the Greens, it is legal for the Nats?
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 10:08 am
I see that this Gween dissident and vandal is trying to deny any personal involvement in the defacing of the billboards.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/election-2011/5968151/Billboard-joker-hopes-Greens-unharmed
But it looks like he tells lies.
Whale Oil has received info that one of the motorbikes speeding away from the scene of defaced billboards in CHC, is registered to: [tada] – Jolyon White. So either White loaned his motorbike to someone else who defaced the billboards on his behalf, or he is telling porkies.
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2011/11/oh-really/
Quelle surprise.
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 10:13 am
I have just talked to my former EA…she confirms that EA’s have a clause in their contracts which allow the MP to sack the person immediately for “incompatibility”…so Norman cannot hide behind employment law…if he wants her gone, she is gone today (albeit remaining on Parliamentary Services’ payroll, so he can’t use the ” I cant be so nasty, she would have no income for Christmas” line)
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
According to the logic here, if one National Party member is involved with others (unknown) in defacing Labour billboards this is planned by National, financed by National and operated by National.
It reminds me of how negative stereotying is the recorse of bigots. Whether it be about political ideology, religion, or race etc – one beneficiary all beneficiares one Jew, all Jews. Here it’s sometimes treated like the political ideology of the place.
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
SPC – you’re doing exactly the same thing. just saying…
Vote:November 16th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Just observing …
Vote: