A stuffed nation?

December 20th, 2012 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

I don’t how to put this diplomatically, so I’ll be direct.

Dear Fairfax,

Please, please, please exterminate the abomination that is Nation. 

I of all people am a supporter of allowing readers and commenters to contribute content. I think that is a good thing.

But it is a bad thing when you put that content on the front page of your website, and mix it in with the articles written by actual journalists. It devalues their work, and the entire site.

Take an example of a “story” that was on Stuff’s front page yesterday. It was this one that said:

A few years ago I applied for a job at a factory making trampolines.

The manager’s first question was: “Are you a married woman?”

I thought ‘ughh you creep’ but bit my tongue and asked why he needed to know.

His answer left me speechless: “I don’t employ married women because their place is in the home to raise their children properly.”

Guess what though? I truly hate to admit it – being a (reformed) seventies feminist  – but he’s dead right.

Let’s even put aside that a company that has a majority of female employees publishes on their front page a story saying married women shouldn’t get jobs, because that makes them bad mums who can’t raise their children recently. Let’s agree that is a valid debate (personally I think it was a valid debate in 1912 not 2012).

But the 81 word “story” doesn’t even make a case for or against. It just says an employer asked me this once, and he was right.

Danyl McL has a theory that Stuff Nation is in fact a cunning plan by Fairfax to make people appreciate real journalists even more. If so, it is working!

Look I understand the commercial attraction of Stuff Nation. Get hundreds of people to write for us for nothing, in the hope their contribution makes the front page of Stuff, and we get to make advertising revenue from the ads we place on their content. And that is a fine model for GP Forums, and other bulletin boards.

But this mixing of banal reader contributions and actual journalistic articles and columns is hideous. Has Fairfax asked their staff what they think of it? I’m pretty confident they hate it.

Is there a solution, short of my preferred option of a large radioactive nuclear bomb?

How about just removing Stuff Nation articles from the front page of Stuff? I’ve already removed the Stuff Nation section from the Stuff front page, but their articles still turn up under “Editor’s Picks”. The article on why married women should not work was an Editor’s Pick!!!

Why not make Stuff Nation a standalone website. Make it nation.stuff.co.nz. Have a link to the site from Stuff, but don’t mingle together the content from your professional journalists with your reader contributions.

Either that, or nuke the abomination!

UPDATE: The new editor of Stuff Nation has responded in the comments:

Ouch! I’m totally up for debate on this (as the new editor of Stuff Nation and Stuff’s digital communities), but abomination might be a bit rough.

I think there’s some fair points in this blog though and also in the comments. I’m glad BlairM pointed out the obvious flaw in the fact that this is a blog, based on the opinions of an individual, much like the majority of content on Stuff Nation. I think it’s dangerous as journalists for us to assume that one person’s opinion is more valid than another’s.

There was a lot of debate yesterday about the quality of the ‘job interview nightmare’ mentioned above but I think in the context of readers sharing their stories and opening up debate on key issues, it’s a very valid form of citizen journalism. And by publishing it we weren’t endorsing the content – in the same way we don’t agree with every op ed piece we publish in our papers or websites.

I think it’s fair to mention that Stuff Nation – like any new major project – is a work in progress and we’re constantly working on ways to improve it and the quality within it. We have had some really beautifully written pieces from our readers (like this http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/8059106/Remembering-loved-ones-My-world-ended-that-day ) that have not only been amazing reads, but have provoked discussion around tough issues such as suicide, miscarriage, and loss, and that we would have struggled to produce through traditional news gathering channels.

In the meantime though, the stories are very clearly marked as Stuff Nation content, so if you’re not keen, you can easily avoid them. And I’ll just work away in the next few months to win you back :)

Thanks to Janine for a constructive response to my rather inflammatory post. To some degree I find the dross puts me off discovering the gems like the ones cited above. Maybe have people vote on the best pieces and have them displayed more prominently, so that the signal to noise ratio is higher?

But here’s an example of what I was complaining about. I follow NZ Stuff Politics on Twitter. My expectation is that tweets from that account will be linking to stories written by journalists on politics. One tweet this afternoon was:

Call for new Education Minister

I clicked through on this, thinking it was a significant story. That a lobby group or school or union or MP had called for a new Education Minister.

Instead the link was to this Stuff Nation story. It was basically a letter to the editor, or a short piece by a reader called Peter Condon that he thinks Parata should go.

This shouldn’t be tweeted as a political news story by the Stuff NZ Politics twitter account. It isn’t a story. I’m not saying don’t have the opinion on the website somewhere, but this treating of a Stuff Nation opinion as no different to a news story is I think bad.

Some have said just don’t read Stuff Nation stories. I generally don’t. But when the Stuff twitter accounts promote them as if they were actual news stories, I have no way of knowing until I click on them. Set up a Stuff Nation twitter account, and leave the nation stories ou of the other twitter accounts.

Tags: ,

40 Responses to “A stuffed nation?”

  1. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    If you don’t like it – you don’t have to read it.

    Why sweat it?

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  2. David in Chch (523 comments) says:

    I don’t read it, but I have to sign up for it if I want to comment on _anything_. And occasionally I do. BUT I do not want to get scam emails from Stuff and their advertisers. I want to be able to comment, as I was before and I can here, by simply supplying my name and my email address, which are then not shown or used elsewhere. It’s reached the point where I don’t bother with Stuff as much because, in my opinion, they have stuffed it up.

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  3. lazza (382 comments) says:

    So David how does one tell the difference? … between Qualified? MSM Journalism and “us others”?

    And Oh BTW, I know of no required cedentials for so termed “Qualified” Journalists.

    Recent (banal/trite/cr*p) contributions read in Granny Herald/”others too” say as much.

    For “good” Journalism … read the Guardian, New York Times and the NZ Listener. Or, (as well) surf the blogs including Stuff where like it or not anything goes … but at least we know it.

    I don’t expect “quality” from surfing Fox News, preferring to rely on the BBC. Same thing really?

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  4. RRM (10,001 comments) says:

    Stuff Nation is doing a great job providing evidence against the infinite monkey theorem. Leave it alone!

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  5. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,913 comments) says:

    Dear boy, the answer is simple.

    Fairfax is Stuffed.

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  6. BlairM (2,362 comments) says:

    I’m against having to put up with bad writing when I click on what seem to be interesting links. But I get that with paid journalists, and anything written by the Associated Press.

    What I do find bizarre is this disdain for the writings of amateurs as opposed to “real journalists”. A blogger is not in a position to make such distinctions, nor are they correct distinctions to make. Writing stands or falls on its own merits.

    Stuff is not a blog, and the editor should perhaps exercise more discretion. But there is no point in getting snobby about the exercise either, and on a blog no less – too much chutzpah to take such a critique seriously.

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  7. KiwiGreg (3,259 comments) says:

    “For “good” Journalism … read the Guardian, New York Times and the NZ Listener.”

    Oh dear.

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  8. Twinkletoes (54 comments) says:

    Kiwi Greg – as you say, oh dearie dear.

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  9. Ashley Schaeffer (508 comments) says:

    They do mark every Stuff Nation article with a Stuff icon, so they are easy to spot and avoid – which I do. Having said that, a lot of the “professionally” written articles are crap writing as well. Actually, I’m not sure why I keep returning to Stuff for my news – just force of habit really.

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  10. dc (144 comments) says:

    The Do Not Want Stuff Nation script makes it all go away.

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  11. rightoverlabour (114 comments) says:

    getting as bad as the herald…..

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  12. kowtow (8,712 comments) says:

    Very much a contemporary debate.

    Our children are the future.

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  13. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    like I previously advised, just add this line to the bottom of your hosts file:
    127.0.0.1 stuff.co.nz

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  14. Harriet (5,085 comments) says:

    “…..But this mixing of banal reader contributions and actual journalistic articles and columns is hideous….”

    ‘journalistic’? – The last one left the industry in the early 90’s!

    Well women did work 9-3 & 9-4 in a lot of jobs in the 70’s. Retail etc.

    And now today, women are all calling for ‘family friendly work places’.

    And that is the real issue over at Stuff [everywhere else in media too]- sensationalism over facts…….crap journalism is really the point your making David!

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  15. Elaycee (4,403 comments) says:

    I’ve already removed the Stuff Nation section from the Stuff front page, but their articles still turn up under “Editor’s Picks”. The article on why married women should not work was an Editor’s Pick!!!

    Yup – an Editor’s pick. Makes you wonder whether the idiots have finally taken over the asylum. 8O

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  16. J9Bennetts (1 comment) says:

    Ouch! I’m totally up for debate on this (as the new editor of Stuff Nation and Stuff’s digital communities), but abomination might be a bit rough.

    I think there’s some fair points in this blog though and also in the comments. I’m glad BlairM pointed out the obvious flaw in the fact that this is a blog, based on the opinions of an individual, much like the majority of content on Stuff Nation. I think it’s dangerous as journalists for us to assume that one person’s opinion is more valid than another’s.

    There was a lot of debate yesterday about the quality of the ‘job interview nightmare’ mentioned above but I think in the context of readers sharing their stories and opening up debate on key issues, it’s a very valid form of citizen journalism. And by publishing it we weren’t endorsing the content – in the same way we don’t agree with every op ed piece we publish in our papers or websites.

    I think it’s fair to mention that Stuff Nation – like any new major project – is a work in progress and we’re constantly working on ways to improve it and the quality within it. We have had some really beautifully written pieces from our readers (like this http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/8059106/Remembering-loved-ones-My-world-ended-that-day ) that have not only been amazing reads, but have provoked discussion around tough issues such as suicide, miscarriage, and loss, and that we would have struggled to produce through traditional news gathering channels.

    In the meantime though, the stories are very clearly marked as Stuff Nation content, so if you’re not keen, you can easily avoid them. And I’ll just work away in the next few months to win you back :)

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  17. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    Very much a contemporary debate.

    Should be but it isn’t and the reason why it isn’t is that when alluded to the default response of the progressives is to take offense and throw around words like sexism and homophobia or as in the post above pretend the speaker is hopelessly old fashioned and doesn’t understand our Brave New World

    Our children are the future.

    Yes indeed but progressives exhibit a complete misunderstanding of where children come from and how they come about. in the progressive ideal universe the stork would bring them and the Government would assign them to those the Government deem worthy regardless of gender or “sexual orientation”.

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  18. GPT1 (2,122 comments) says:

    Hear hear. It’s unbelievably irritating seeing a link and then getting some bullshit dribble from Jo of Foxton. And worst of all it masquerades as news.

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  19. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    While agreeing with all that you say DPF, I would point out that user-created content can be engaging, well written and as good as that made by the professionals. And the Australians (of all people!) are setting and example.

    I give you… ABC Open where people can contribute not just writing but photos, video, audio… anything they can make that tells a basically. Some of it even makes it to ABC TV and radio.

    It’s particularly aimed at regional Australia, so perhaps it’s that couintry people are less obsessed with themselves and other banal topics and have a wider perspective as a result of being able to see from horizon to horizon.

    However it’s also far more guided than the “throw it at the wall and see what sticks” model Stuff seems to use. The ABC has staff who guide contributors through “projects” for which they’re asked to make content.

    One such project is “Aftermath” – people’s own stories of recovering after disaster. Have a look at the quality of input there, then imagine if Fairfax had put that kind of resource into Christchurch.

    It’s like I said when we were commenting on the sale of Trade Me. Fairfax already employs some very good journalists, just not enough of them. And not enough of them are able to focus on something other than a very short term horizon (Phil Kitchin being the only exception I’m aware of). Stuff Nation could be brilliant, instead it’s embarrassing; and judging by similar efforts the diffference is resourcing.

    Either that, or we’re all, like, you know, retarded lolz

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  20. Sam Buchanan (501 comments) says:

    It’s mostly rubbish, agreed, but if Stuff want to embed a blog on their news page, why get all worked up about it?

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  21. TripeWryter (716 comments) says:

    I avoid Stuff Nation where I can, and also the sexist Essential Mums.

    Fairfax can do what it likes and can put up anything it likes. My feeling is they are getting such content free, which they can flog off elsewhere and make money on it. Nothing wrong with making money, except Fairfax doesn’t give a sniff of a coin to the person who wrote the piece in the first place.

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  22. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Now I see why Mr Farrar is complaining about Stuff after seeing this article

    He’s got time to dance “gangnam style” and perform a mock gay marriage, but Prime Minister John Key isn’t keen on answering questions about Hekia Parata. He has refused to front for a second day in a row on questions about the Education Minister.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8104365/John-Key-we-ve-got-some-questions

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  23. Mark (1,488 comments) says:

    I have relegated it to the part of the Stuff web-page I do not have to look at. It is irritating crap and DPF I totally agree with your sentiment.

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  24. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    I agree with you too, DPF.
    The “Stuff Nation” nonsense clutters up the page and crowds out the “real” news (if such a thing still exists on Stuff).

    If Stuff still has journalists, they would be much more appreciated if they took on REAL stories (like, for example, why the Green Party always gets a free, easy ride in the mainstream media. How about getting a LOT more critical of the Green Party? Goodness knows, there’s enough material for a whole series of articles on that theme. The utterly-discredited “manmade global warming” nonsense, for a start. Follow that up with the Greens’ hypocritical protest against the recent petrol tax increase.)

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  25. Lucia Maria (2,606 comments) says:

    I see what you mean, David. I use Google News and the Stuff Nation, “Call for new education minister” post is turning up as the primary news item, second of three, for New Zealand. I’m used to random opinion turning up in the Google News feed, but this sort of thing does contaminate it somewhat.

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  26. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    I can’t work out if this is a person in a glass house throwing stones or a person in a bunker doing it.

    Stuff appear to be doing a mix and match approach perhaps inspired by blogging – so is it setting itself up in competition to blogs, and perhaps succeeding?

    The use of uninformed comment is fine in my opinion, especially as we enjoy guest posts in other fora by people who are so one-eyed they wouldn’t have been out of place at the Battle of Trafalgar.

    Is a blog a superior forum? Can it claim the mandate to pass judgement on others? If so, why do we still have cutting edge stuff like holiday pics and caption comps mixed in with dog whistling and clearly partisan slants, passed off as objective commentary.

    However, if we are arguing a blog need not adhere to journalistic standards and isn’t a superior forum, or is entitled to be so, isn’t Stuff similarly entitled, in this day and age to claim the same standards may apply, if the ‘market’ has clearly indicated a demand?

    In short, personally I roll my imaginary eyes when David posts his holiday pics ad infinitum on KB, but I accept this is the modern way, and I pass over them. Before on argues that misleading headlines encourage people to waste time, I’d suggest even recently, David had a bob each way with headlines like:

    “Allowed to remain a teacher”

    “Kids rights more important than parental rights”

    My point is, I don’t like or agree with the Standard’s editorial policy, so I just don’t; go there.

    But, no one is forcing me to read it either. I would never suggest it be ended as a form of expression on the basis of my own narrow tastes -this is is dangerous ground, especially if those responsible happen to have different political opinions from my own.

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  27. iMP (2,416 comments) says:

    David, have you not been buying and reading Truth? It is calling to you…

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  28. Daniel (6 comments) says:

    Stuff Nation was the last straw. I haven’t been back since.

    Even the content written by “actual journalists” is increasingly crap; the site has taken a real nose dive over the years. The frequency at which reported “facts” are outright wrong is astounding.

    But I must thank Stuff Nation for helping me break the habit. So much time saved from being wasted.

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  29. Peter (1,723 comments) says:

    I learn far more from KiwiBlog, Cactus, Liberty Scott et al, and many of the comments, than I do for the MSN. There is more depth on the thought provoking blogs than there is in the MSM.

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  30. david@tokyo (263 comments) says:

    Funny you mention it…

    A colleague asked me the other day about something they saw in the NZ news about monetary policy or a currency union with Australia or something… when I checked it I found it was some total bollocks written at “Stuff Nation” with which I was unfamiliar. It took me a few minutes to confirm that it was indeed utter nonsense unworthy of showing up as a hit in a Google news search… and then explain as much to my colleague. Ugh…

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  31. itstricky (1,875 comments) says:

    Lee C +1, absolutely right.

    There’s no difference between the forums. And it’s obviously clearly marked on the stuff site, so if you don’t like it stay clear of it.

    Getting on your high-horse about exterminating it when exactly the same variants of public opinion (and “banal” stories) exist here (and have a right to exist in both spaces) is fairly errr ironic? errr silly? I mean…check it out…some how a story about the mixing of blogging & real news instantly becomes “those b* Greens and their fantasy global warming”

    Getting on your high-horse about promoting the stories as “real” news stories is funny when most of the posts here are “adjusted” to the submitter’s fancy for maximum impact/conflict as well.

    What I find annoying is when random tweets/facebook/wikipedia quotes end up in ‘real’ stories by ‘real’ journalists. e.g. “…three facebook users tweeted that the sun was shining in Gisborne yesterday. According to wikipedia, Gisborne gets the most sun in the North Island”

    Three of the most untrusted sources in the world make it into our national carrier pretty much every day.

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  32. landoftime (36 comments) says:

    I so agree with you. Stuff Nation is trash. The writing is substandard and people are just using as it as a way to vent. I also find it risky for some of the contributors. They are sharing very personal stuff and are vulnerable to trolls who can make comments. Stuff don’t seem to have a very robust policy on screening out trolls.

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  33. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    I’m a Stuff visitor. It’s ‘free’. I don’t buy the paper so it’s good for getting the news and there’s endless material on there if you really wanted to spend all your time looking at it.

    Stuff Nation… written by Stuff readers. Some of them are good… lots of it merely reflects the genius quality found in the comments.

    Which brings me to the comments on the Stuff website. There are some very good comments. If you go to the business and technology pages for eg… the intelligence of the comments is usually higher. Most of the comments on Stuff I can only guess are left by uneducated semi-literate peasant cretins of the highest order. It’s like a fucking child wrote half the shit on there. Looking at them you’d think this country is nothing but insufferable low IQ drooling slack-jawed yokel turds. Read a god-damned book you total fucktards!! Learn how to spell words an shit!!

    Makes me wonder what the demographics of Stuff are? Am I hanging out with the dumb-dumb deadhead classes?

    And Stuff seems to encourage these simpletons by publishing every single duh duh dumbarse thing they submit, while it’s obvious from seeing other contributors comments that they routinely get censored… which of course is at Stuff’s discretion.. but still. They seem to especially love anything that’s a noddy comment by some thick cunt.

    Which is why the comments section on Kiwiblog is infinitely better than Stuff. First of all, your post gets published. I suspect far far far more intelligence and wisdom is on display on Kiwiblog than you’ll ever find on Stuff as well. Go Kiwiblog and places where the no-brain-all-mouth morons don’t hang out much. Their head would hurt from all the thinking the poor twats.

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  34. itstricky (1,875 comments) says:

    >>> They are sharing very personal stuff and are vulnerable to trolls who can make comments

    >>>>> I suspect far far far more intelligence and wisdom is on display on Kiwiblog

    [Ivan on Stuff Nation]
    I want the holidays they get. The whole country wants the holidays they get. Love the way they’re going on strike after they get back from holiday, and before some smart alec says that they all

    [dime on Kiwiblog]
    oh wait, its holiday time. another 6 weeks off. but teachers work harder than everyone else…

    [nzmr2guy on Stuff Nation]
    Awesome so whats your proposed plan to collect 350,000,000 guns from 100,000,000 Americans ? Becuase as you know it only takes one gun to fall into the wrong hands..you have to get ALL OF THEM

    [redbaiter on Kiwiblog]
    In fact almost all modern day massacres have taken place in areas “liberals” have designated as “gun free zones”.

    Stuff Nation and Kiwiblog – piles of randoms trying to disect the Bain case without being on the jury themselves and without realising that’s what the courts & judges are for and that’s not what is under discussion now.
    Stuff Nation and Kiwiblog – otherwise good quality threads about the bravery of the Sandy Hook teachers being turned into soap boxes for personal opinions with little respect for hummanity.

    You’re quite right. Plenty of vent and troll. Plenty of morons. But pretty much everywhere, not just Stuff Nation.

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  35. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “with little respect for hummanity.”

    What’s to respect? A bunch of people beholden to Rome who think that they are the be all and end all of mankind.
    In Cicero’s mind anyone who wasn’t a human (homo humanus) was a barbarian.

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  36. itstricky (1,875 comments) says:

    “A bunch of people beholden to Rome”

    Probably a very good example of another soapbox that is unrelated to the discussion.

    I don’t quite get it? Are you referring to religion? I didn’t mention religion anywhere but I guess it’s pretty easy to turn the discussion into that just like “the Greens and the fantasy global warming” or any other rant topic of the day.

    I guess religion is a good topic given it’s 21/12 and the end of the world is coming… better start packing my things…

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  37. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    reply to itstricky:

    It’s very very very highly subjective, isn’t it? That’s my personal opinion that overall the comments on Kiwiblog are better, a higher standard contributed by smarter, better educated people. Better thought out… well put together, well thought out. People who have done their homework and are well read and (ironic sentence ending) ‘know their stuff’.

    I’m talking overall here. Statistically speaking. There’s thousands upon thousands of comments. Choosing a few cherrypicked examples and comparing them…. meaningless. You still get dicks on here and very wise folks on Stuff… that’s for sure. I’m talking overall. On average.

    I would liken the Stuff comments to talkback callers. Dipshits most of them. From the uneducated peasant classes. I myself am a peasant but I do try my best not to be a total deadhead dipshit.

    The endless Stuff Nation reader’s articles on the ‘alcohol debate’ seems to bring out all the loop de loops big time. Try reading all of that shit with a straight face… it’s laughable. I’d like to see more reasonable and sensible critical thinking about a bitter drink stinking.

    I’ve just about given up reading the Stuff comments. Seems like Stuff only want the simpleton comments. Safe, non-offensive, ‘mainstream’ politically correct sanitized disneyland infantile dribbling seems to be all they really want to pass moderation. Anything else is just far too risque. I’ve got to admit that late one night I replied to a shit-ton of comments on a Stuff Nation article and the whole fucking lot made it in. http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/8050349/We-need-to-de-glamourise-drunkenness

    Guess which one I am?

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  38. itstricky (1,875 comments) says:

    Have to admit I haven’t read that much Stuff Nation. Don’t really have the time, to be honest. So, you’re probably right – maybe the moderators do aim for middle of the road. Maybe that is a bit lacking in variation or genuine ideas.

    Yes, I seek critical thinking. It seems so lacking in the current world. I generally I agree with you on that.

    But, then, you call people ‘dipshit’, ‘laughable’ and ‘simpleton’ and that you have a special, unprintable word for Maori TV. And suddenly any formative respect or inqusitive thoughts I have for your views just, well, drop through the floor boards.

    I mean, sure, maybe there are silly comments. Maybe there are stupid comments. But when you reduce yourself to calling people you don’t know from a bar of soap ‘dipshits’, ‘simpletons’ and then pronounce ‘I have an unprintable word for Maori TV’ you sort of really blow the whole ‘higher standard by smarter, better educated poeple’ thing out of the window, don’t you?

    Well I guess perhaps you believe that being smarter and better educated mean you have a more cunning way to put down things you don’t agree with? Or does it mean you have good arguments and constructive ideas?

    In that vein, to me, your comments about “guess what my name for Maori TV is” and “guess which one I am” really sound a bit narcissistic rather than smarter and better educated.

    I’ll agree with you on this one, but not by your methods.

    Hey look, it’s past 12:12am and we’re all still here.

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  39. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    Listen dipshit

    hehehehe… I’m just kidding mate. Reply to itstricky:

    LOL… unprintable word for Maori TV!!!! Mate I’ve been at truck depots where the brown people affectionately call each other n****r. At the same place I was called ‘you dumb honky’.. and not in a nice way. Hey… what are you going to do? Call the race relations bureaucrat?

    Hey… I’m a total peasant. Have never claimed otherwise. I’d be happy to be considered median intelligence.

    I enjoy swearing and I deeply appreciate this great blog of David Farrar’s. Where people can swear to some degree.

    I had a university lecturer who was really cool. He was a chartered accountant… had worked for IRD… is a tax academic and travels the world on the subject. And he likes to swear too. Swearing can just mean the person likes to swear.

    I’ve been a bus and truck driver… so if you want to apply all of your social demographics and stereotypes… you’d quite possibly expect me to swear and call idiots ‘dipshit’ etc.

    I’m happy to be considered reducing myself in your eyes when I refer to people I don’t know as ‘dipshits’ and ‘simpletons’.

    I see what you’re saying: The irony is that others may in turn think of one who calls others they don’t know ‘dipshits’ as themselves being a ‘dipshit’.

    I agree, it does sound a bit narcissistic. So you’re saying that you can be either narcissistic… fuck me the spelling on that word… or smarter and better educated… but not both together? Why is either one better than the other? I didn’t think they were necessarily related in terms of which one is ‘better’ or more desirable? One’s a personality trait… the other a measure of mental ability and learning opportunities. Oh well, if you’re smarter than me you can explain that… that would be really good.

    I’m not trying to win school dux with every sentence. Maori TV name is an irreverent quip. The ‘dipshits’ I refer to on Stuff are giving their political views and opinions. Some of the irreverent comments on Stuff I really enjoy. If I didn’t get any value from any commenters on there I wouldn’t ever read them. So clearly I do. I just love typing ‘dipshit’ in this post. Happy chemicals… oh yeah.

    So… the answer of course is social ostracism for people you deem to be unworthy of your love and attention and time. I don’t read Penny Bright’s posts for eg. Because the woman is a ‘dipshit’. Sorry, I’ll try to sound smarter and better educated for you. The woman is a total **fucktard**!! Whoops… I did try… it’s just not in my DNA… hehehehe. Sorry man!!

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  40. itstricky (1,875 comments) says:

    Thanks, that was a good laugh. In a good way that is, as in ha ha hilarious. Not as in a condescending way.

    And so you can see the problem.

    The smile on your face doesn’t come through the electronic medium. No one can tell if you being a smart arse or not.

    I’m certainly not trying to look down my nose at anyone.

    I’ve been called honky more times than you’ve had hot dinners. And you and I both know that there’s a lot of different ways that can go down. But the difference between doing that in jest with your mates and announcing it in a public forum such as this is substaintial. You rub people up the wrong way because they can’t see your face. And exactly – you’ve hit the nail on the head – in a public forum if I call you a dipshit and you can’t see my face, I automatically defend myself by saying you must be one too. Which doesn’t really do a lot for getting something discussed.

    Under this irreverent quips can easily become major flame thrower incidents.

    Just like the ‘gay red shirt’ thing – that’s funny round the bbq between mates. When the whole nation listens for your words and you get to put them out in the public – not really funny. It just doesn’t come across when you’re the PM given a opportunity to put your thoughts to the masses of the public crowd.

    Either way yeah sure it seems Stuff is moderated to the middle so you might not get big barrel thoughts blowing their way in and yes, this Penny doesn’t do herself any favours does she…totally out there.

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