General Debate 17 February 2013

February 17th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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159 Responses to “General Debate 17 February 2013”

  1. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    “groovy baby” ! ( Austin Powers for those who dont get out )

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  2. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    The bloke is 19 years old, and he’s fathered 13 kids to multiple mothers.

    Rodney Hide is dead right; the government cannot be a substitute for fathers and husbands. Paula Bennett’s welfare reforms are a good first step in the right direction, but this government and its successors face huge challenges in fixing a dysfunctional welfare system.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/hide-on-teen-dads.html

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  3. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Unfortunately no politician has the balls to carry it out. PB and JK are just tinkering around the edges. They might as well be doing nothing at all.

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  4. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Jules Meekas (?) (found guilty by DNA of the murder of lillte Teresa cormack) also fathered 9 children.

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  5. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Klark should have been hung drawn and quartered

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8314694/Skyhawks-to-taste-formation-flight-once-again

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  6. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    ks , Ive just spent forty seven seconds trying to come up with some plan that would stop an individual like that and the best i could do was once his name.appeared on two birth certificates you cut his nuts off our kill him, that is the only.way because you cannot deal fianancially with him because there are only about eight people in the country who can afford to pay for 13 kids

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  7. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Richard Prosser has proven to be a big talking backslider who’s word can’t be trusted.

    ON KEEPING POLITICIANS HONEST: “Our Prime Minister, and members of the Cabinet, need to have a similar Sword of Damocles hanging over them; they need to know that if they don’t perform, conform, behave properly, and do as We The People tell them, that they’ll be out on their ears, not maybe in three years time, but maybe next month. That should keep the bastards honest.”

    Prosser out on his ear, maybe next month? If the bastard was honest he would be.

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  8. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Maori are ripping of us the crews and the environment.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8314678/Fishing-company-admits-underpaying-foreign-crew
    http://www.3news.co.nz/New-fishing-laws-draconian-iwi-fishers/tabid/423/articleID/286992/Default.aspx

    Kiwis only should fish our waters.

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  9. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    ppffft show me one honest politician…thought so..

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  10. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    I wonder what the Howard league has to say about the “recreational violence” that saw a radio nzz journalist dead?

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  11. stigie (1,197 comments) says:

    @ LAJ
    I think they are doing just enough for now.
    Go too hard at it and you will find the Nats will be out on their
    arse come 2014

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  12. MT_Tinman (3,187 comments) says:

    ’tisn’t the fella that gets pregnant.

    Take away the incentive for the sheila to spread her legs and you reduce the problem dramatically but face it, only castration at birth of all males will eliminate it completely.

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  13. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    The reform came about after complaints from mainly Asian crew members about physical abuse, very low pay and appalling working conditions. The issue was perceived as damaging to New Zealand’s international reputation.Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/New-fishing-laws-draconian-iwi-fishers/tabid/423/articleID/286992/Default.aspx#ixzz2L5orDwUv

    It’s the “diversity dividend”!

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  14. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    @Pete George:
    Dunne + Lancet… tch! tch! (and again) tch!

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  15. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    another mystery of the universe that has taken up a couple of minutes of my day is I afn intrigued by the fact that the very tolerant Manalo and the odious Richard Prosser are the only New Zealanders who I hear that lovely term ‘ stoneagers’ from when referring to any one whose skin colour isn’t a light er shade of whey, funny that

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  16. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    The govt can’t be a substitute for fathers and husbands?

    Of course it can’t .But why then does it keep interfering in social matters?

    One of the worst instances (of many) was the anti smacking legislation. The state telling proper families how to bring up their children bcause a tiny minority of ferals murder theirs!

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  17. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    KT

    I think you’ve missed the point old chap – the ‘ferrals’ have suntans and their ‘right’ to do such things is in ‘the Treaty’ (or its interpretations’), ‘somewhere’. Bradford’s legislation was just ‘spreading the lurv’ and making sure that the ‘ferrals’ didn’t feel ‘disadvantaged’ or ‘deprived’ of their ‘rights’ by the actions of the White man.

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  18. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Greedy paracitacle stoneagers

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8314679/Treaty-cases-earn-top-dollar-for-top-team

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  19. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    So the diversity dividend is only a + never a minus, as when wages andconditions are reduced?

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  20. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Fluff: This Sunday’s Sunday Sundaes….

    I’m at BK at 6:24am. We now open at 7am… fuck off.

    I was going to the supermarket afterwards anyway… so went there first to kill off the time.

    7am at BK. I’m there with three 100% feral brown kids around…um…. 7-8 years of age? One girl is running around sticking fingers up her nose. They are using paper and straws as pea shooters. Nice black staff member tells them off for pointing a straw at her ‘that’s disgusting’. Later I hear her telling them ‘not to get smart’. The boy is using his scooter inside the shop just to get from A to B even if two metres only. Kids had dirty shabby clothes. Eeeeeeew.

    Ah yeah… they did the brown kid thing where they stare at me because white people are so unusual. I’ve seen it all before none of their shit fazes me at all.

    Shit they were rough mate.

    I got a bloke that Filled. My. Cup. Up. With. Soft Serve. Holy shit… much more than the black lady last week. Added my own peanuts and caramel, 100s/1000s, choc chips, crushed up cone, fruit chew stick for a spoon and caramel bites in the mouth. Had three helpings. The big $1.80c in total. Life is good.

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  21. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    From Steve Braunias: The Secret Diary of … Richard Prosser

    MONDAY

    I’m covered in blood as we approach the suspected terrorist.

    His skin is dark. His hair is black. The twin evils of diversity and multiculturalism swirl around him like smoke, and smell like cooked meat.

    He says, “Gidday. What can I get you guys?” We both order kebabs.

    TUESDAY

    Ian and I publish our findings in his magazine It’s A Conspiracy Let Me Out Of Here, and all hell breaks loose.

    It doesn’t faze us. We fully expected the PC brigade to purse its lips and shout us down from the ledge of their morally superior rooftops for daring to want to open up serious debate.

    THURSDAY

    Am forced to eat my words. They leave a bitter taste in my mouth but it’s not too much of a hassle because that taste has been there for years and years and years.

    FRIDAY

    “Dear God,” whispers Winston, “it’s even worse than you said.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/opinion/steve-braunias/8310250/The-Secret-Diary-of-Richard-Prosser

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  22. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    left right and round the bend
    Do you think the peanuts will come out in your poos like the pea did last night?
    Will you eat the recycled peanut?

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  23. Northland Wahine (667 comments) says:

    I had to smile as I read about about ferals and the brown kid thing…

    My own feral and moko are sitting down to good old weetbix with a side plate of toast and vegemite. How about you focus your racist attacks on the adults and leave the kids alone…just a thought…

    and KS, I recommend neutering, actually insist on it for this guy. Can you imagine how many more children he old father before his sperm sacks empty? I’m terrified at the thought.

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  24. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    The holy catholic church the font of all morals
    Experts at arse covering as well as arse penetrating
    keep HIDING THE ROT Catholics it is really working for you.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/8308263/Pope-to-hide-from-the-world
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/8314705/Orders-founder-fathered-children-court-told
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/8314813/Retired-pope-immune-from-abuse-probes

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  25. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    LRC what gear are you on?
    you had a couple of Hunter Thompson ish rants at three o’clock this morning on yesterdays GD.perhaps some sleep, soft serve for breakfast does have merit how ever

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  26. cha (4,019 comments) says:

    Why is The Pope retiring? Glenn has a theory.

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  27. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Matt McCarten: Living wage a moral entitlement

    I’m trying to get my head around “moral entitlement”, seems like a nonsensical term to me. Behaviour or right or wrong cannot be an entitlement.

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  28. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    A NZ First spokesperson is at odds with Winston Peters on the Richard Prosser mess.

    They said that Peters was seething, but Peters doesn’t think Prosser should leave Parliament. Except the party will effectively dump Prosser at the next election.

    And more remarkably “The fact that (Brendan) Horan has gone is the only thing that’s saved him.”

    The party (except for Peters) thinks Prosser should go, but won’t dump him now simply because it would be not look good the party to have two dumpings so close together.

    That makes the party look as bad as Prosser and Peters.

    NZ First would have dumped Prosser but for Horan – and Peters?

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  29. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Having lost one our best MP’s to the push and shove brigade of the Nats. we can now see why.
    Far too intelligent for Key and Dopey Dipton Oh and of course that useless bogie hairstylist Dunne.

    TAXING PUZZLE

    In his valedictory speech to Parliament, veteran MP and speaker Lockwood Smith remembered the seven years of work he put into a radical new tax scheme, work that if done in a university, he said, could have earned him another PhD.

    The work tried to find a way round the churning involved in employers deducting PAYE only for the Government to pay it all back to some employees in family tax credits.

    “My research unravelling that interface soon got into the challenging area of effective marginal tax rates. At the time, a single parent with three dependent children seeking to work their way off the Domestic Purposes Benefit, and trying to get from $10,000 earned income a year to $25,000 would have had to work an extra 20 hours a week at, say, $15 an hour.

    “The problem was the effective tax on that extra $15,000 of earned income was round about $13,300, meaning that even though the parent was paid $15 an hour, their take home pay would have been little over $1.50 an hour.”

    Smith said things have improved since then, but high effective marginal tax rates still remain a significant disincentive.

    “I developed a model that completely integrated those three components, income tax, benefits and family tax credits, a model that had tax-free zones for low income earners only, managed and declining effective marginal tax rates until a flat top tax rate was reached, and all family configurations covered.”

    Invited to present the work to a round table of tax experts in Melbourne, the Centre for Independent Studies in Australia asked him to prepare a paper for them to publish.

    “At the last minute it was pulled for fear it might be seen as official National Party policy, which it wasn’t. I can’t claim it even made it to the trash bin of political history. But that’s politics where you take success and failure on the chin.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8310146/Agents-17-year-fight-for-justice

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  30. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Pete, we would be much more impressed if you bothered to tell us why your exalted leader has been breaking the laws he rushed through over the registration of drugs.
    You have comletely ignored this and attempted to do what all slack arse pollies do and divert attention to from your own bad to others.
    Ignoring this won’t make it go away cause its going to end up in court.

    The unintended conseqeunces of banning exctasy (which has yet to kill anyone), and dope and its derivatives (one of which is cannabis oil that the Spanish have now proven is a natural cure for many cancers), are becoming apparent with the phycotic affects of some of the replacements actually causing major problems around NZ.

    Now if you had been reading the Press rather than stupid left wing blogs and repeating trash from them and others you would know all this has been put forward in the last two weeks.

    Don’t moan at me if you are not aware, go look for the info.

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  31. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Viking – I’d be much more impressed if you fronted up with the evidence instead of having a general rant.

    I don’t get the Press.

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  32. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “…………..“I developed a model that completely integrated those three components, income tax, benefits and family tax credits, a model that had tax-free zones for low income earners only, managed and declining effective marginal tax rates until a flat top tax rate was reached, and all family configurations covered.”………..”

    “….and all family configurations covered…”

    They said that in Australia….but what they didn’t say was that it penalises mothers who do the right thing by their kids and stay-at-home. Not in all cases, but where the father is in a pay bracket around $80k-$100k with 3 kids and mum doesn’t work – he is then placed in the position of turning down promotions that give pay increases.[This is all from memory of what I read]. Apparently the ‘models’ take it as a given, that the mother ‘wants to work, or should be working’ at some time while the kids are under 16. That’s where it all falls down.

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  33. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    you are a lazy bum Pete. Its all been on line.

    And no doubt still is. And some of it has been posted here at KB. But I’m not your servant so be a good boy and drag yourself out of the sewer of the left (where no doubt you feel at home), and try getting a better world view of things.

    Your constant cut and paste of the left is wasting blog space. IF we wanted to read that shit we would steel ourselves and go there.

    Plenty have made that point before.

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  34. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Harriet (1,051) Says:
    February 17th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    “…………..“I developed a model that completely integrated those three components, income tax, benefits and family tax credits, a model that had tax-free zones for low income earners only, managed and declining effective marginal tax rates until a flat top tax rate was reached, and all family configurations covered.”………..”

    “….and all family configurations covered…”

    They said that in Australia….but what they didn’t say was that it penalises mothers who do the right thing by their kids and stay-at-home. Not in all cases, but where the father is in a pay bracket around $80k-$100k with 3 kids and mum doesn’t work – he is then placed in the position of turning down promotions that give pay increases.[This is all from memory of what I read]. Apparently the ‘models’ take it as a given, that the mother ‘wants to work, or should be working’ at some time while the kids are under 16. That’s where it all falls down.
    —————————————
    This is not Aussie where all politicans are bent. This was Lockwood Smith and if he says he could make it work then I for one would like to see the detail.
    I beleive that DPF also had something to do with this as he commented on it a day or so back when blogging about Smiths departure.

    Why we can’t have a discussion about doing things better and how is typicall kiwi political myopia.
    Bad for Kiwi’s (who are still leaving for Aussie), and bad for NZ.
    Its long past time we got rid of this attitude which in the main is foisted uopn us by stupid pollies.
    Key when he was in opposition was lambasted by his Dopey Deputy for being a man of many idea’s. Didn’t take long for the establishment to grind him dowm did it.

    Key should quit National and join ACT and we might see some improvement in NZ.

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  35. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Cha, for Glen Beck, that sounds like a reasonable theory. Be interesting to see if Ratzinger has indeed made an unusual number of recent appointments. More likely though, Beck is just blowing hot speculative air out of his arse as is his wont.

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  36. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    Well Phuck me silly……Winston Peters has been voted 3rd sexiest male politician behind John Key and Simon Bridges in the 2013 Durex poll.
    Who in their right mind would vote him so highly, the ageing, lying, thieving little man….Oh maybe Durex gave and incentive of free condoms, lube and viagra for votes for Winnie the Pooh lol.

    Top female politician went to Jacinda (who’s name rhymes with gorse) Adern ahead of Niki Kaye. If I were Niki I’d go for a re-count.

    Happy Sabbath Kiwibloggers.

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  37. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Pete George (16,301) Says:
    February 17th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Viking – I’d be much more impressed if you fronted up with the evidence instead of having a general rant.
    ————————————-
    Note to Pete.
    I don’t give a figjam if I impress you or not.
    Politics is supposedly a contest of idea’s and as Lockwood Smith said:

    “Smith told Parliament some commentators assess MPs on how successfully they play the political game.

    “But to me, what sets a member of Parliament apart is how much they care about the impact of the state on an ordinary person, and how far they are prepared to go in representing people whose lives can be so knocked around by actions of the State.”

    Aspire to that and you will make a difference in the right kind of way.
    It should actually be written into every MP’s Job Description and particularly the list MP’s.

    see, I’m not here to impress anyone but to challnge the way they think and act when it come to other peoples lives.
    Oh and have a bit of fun sometimes.

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  38. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    I wish they’d screened this series when I was growing up.

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  39. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    PhilP (20) Says:
    February 17th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    Well Phuck me silly……Winston Peters has been voted 3rd sexiest male politician behind John Key and Simon Bridges in the 2013 Durex poll.
    Who in their right mind would vote him so highly, the ageing, lying, thieving little man….Oh maybe Durex gave and incentive of free condoms, lube and viagra for votes for Winnie the Pooh lol.

    Top female politician went to Jacinda (who’s name rhymes with gorse) Adern ahead of Niki Kaye. If I were Niki I’d go for a re-count.
    ——————
    Winston Peters has been voted 3rd sexiest male politician

    Well you might say he’s a counter to the other two.
    One could speculate there is this ruggedness look about his face and that seems to turn some chicks on.

    Key is an ordinary good looking guy and Simon the Simple is a a new age metro sexual or in womens mags terms a pretty boy.
    Takes all sorts.

    And of course they must have all used the Durex. There ain’t thirteen kids between the three, unlike the fella on the other post.
    :lol: 8)

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  40. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    It’s not everyday a health clinic gets accused of offering witchcraft and wizardry is it. What the heck was Cresswell thinking? And what specifically were they doing? And how did he think he could get away with it, in a hospital?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8314695/Clinic-closed-over-witchcraft-fears

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  41. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    V2 ,re, Winnie the dwarf, a certain ruggedness ah
    by crikey a comment like that could haunt a man on the blogs for years to come

    ,

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  42. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Viking2 – you might have a point, except it doesn’t stack up. Maybe you didn’t notice that I recently linked to a discussion on reforming drug law. Does that make you a lazy bum?

    Ironically there’s more discussion amongst the left on drug law reform.

    You obviously have no idea about everything I’m involved in. I’ve long supported addressing failures in our drug laws, and I supported that last election.

    But you seem more intent on making assumptions and cheap shots.

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  43. cha (4,019 comments) says:

    Security and immunity, how very fucking convenient.

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  44. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    No Pete George (16,302) Says:
    February 17th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Viking2 – you might have a point, except it doesn’t stack up. Maybe you didn’t notice that I recently linked to a discussion on reforming drug law. Does that make you lazy?

    No It doesn’t as I have businesses to run and don’t spend all day here.

    The point still remains that you have not addressed the accusation that is current that Dunne has ignored his own lawful duties.
    Was posted on KB and ignored.

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  45. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Why is The Pope retiring? Glenn has a theory.

    Stacking the deck with conservative Catholics is consistent with Saint Malachy’s pick of “Peter the Roman”, with Peter being the founding “rock” of the christian church, and Paul having Roman citizenship.

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  46. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    Re: the Pope in general, this is an interesting book.

    Re: the papal resignation, this is interesting:

    And look at this google result on “pope resignation vatican bank”

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  47. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Was posted on KB and ignored.

    Ignored by who? I don’t remember seeing it, I don’t read everything here, I don’t follow every post. If I had seen it I would probably have commented if i think it warranted it.

    I don’t comment on everything I do see here, if I did I’d probably be accused of posting too much.

    And something I missed until now

    we would be much more impressed if you bothered to tell us.

    Who is ‘we’? Why should I be bothered to tell ‘us’ anything? It’s more fun seeing you getting hissy about thinking you have been ignored.

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  48. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Screening for Ministerial appointments? Systems failure in Peter Dunne’s appointment as a New Zealand Revenue and Associate Health Minister
    MP Peter Dunne has recently been appointed as a Minister outside cabinet for two positions, Associate Minister of Health and Minister of Revenue. These appointments may be relevant to a wide range of health issues in New Zealand, the Pacific region, and elsewhere. This letter focuses on his record on tobacco issues, and considers some of the implications of his appointments.
    For nearly 20 years, Mr Dunne has taken a public position opposed to tobacco control. In 1987, while an Undersecretary of Health in the Labour Government, he was reported as describing those who wanted a ban on tobacco advertising as ‘elitist zealots’.1 Since he left the Labour Party in 1994, he has consistently voted against tobacco control initiatives.
    Mr Dunne has described the efforts in New Zealand to prevent the sale of tobacco to underage children as ‘fascist’,2 and tobacco control spending as a ‘scandalous waste of money in pursuit of some health zealots’ beady eyed political correctness.’3 Mr Dunne also described the 2003 New Zealand legislation for smokefree bars as ‘extremism’.4
    Speaking in Parliament to oppose the legislation,5 the evidence indicates that he used (without attribution) statements previously published on a website by Barry McKay of the Canadian tobacco industry front group PUBCO: The Pub and Bar Coalition of Canada.6 He incorrectly attributed these statements (about ventilation being a solution to secondhand smoke dangers) to a British Medical Journal article.
    A December 1994 note from Paul Adams of British American Tobacco, to Peter Dunne, stated that it accompanied 100 pounds:

    ‘to help pay for your ‘Awayday’. I do hope you will enjoy yourselves.

    I would be grateful if you could get receipts for your expenses and pass them to the driver, even large companies have to account for their money!

    Enjoy your visit to England.’7
    In 2003, the month before this tobacco industry document was revealed, he was reported as saying:

    ‘I am constantly labelled by the health sector as a tool of the tobacco industry or a stooge … I cannot remember when I last met with someone from the industry.’ 8
    In 2000, when the possibility of tobacco companies being sued by government was raised, Mr Dunne stated that Labour Prime Minister Helen Clark had a ‘fanatical anti-smoking obsession’ and described ASH NZ as an extremist pressure group.9 In 2001, Prime Minister Helen Clark said that ‘he had consistently picked up issues in support of the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries.’10
    That a politician with this track record can be appointed to a Ministerial role in the health portfolio is a side effect of the MMP political system New Zealand now has (given he is a leader of a minor party in a type of government coalition). Nevertheless, it also indicates a design fault in the way the New Zealand political process selects new ministers.
    That is, there is no systematic publicly transparent review process for ministerial appointments, or a public appraisal of a ministerial candidate’s past support for commercial vested interests in the portfolio area they are considered for. Until such a transparent and effective system is established, it may be appropriate for the public (and the rest of Parliament) to at least tightly monitor the performance of such Ministers. In particular, non-governmental organisations need to take a monitoring and advocacy role to minimise any damage by such Ministers to important regulatory and legislative controls that protect public health and society.
    Or perhaps Mr Dunne should come with a warning label?
    George Thomson
    Department of Public Health, Wellington School of Medicine and Health Sciences
    University of Otago, Wellington
    Nick Wilson
    Department of Public Health, Wellington School of Medicine and Health Sciences
    University of Otago, Wellington
    Competing interests: Both authors have worked for health sector agencies concerned with tobacco control.
    References:

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  49. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Peter Dunne Mr $en$ible.
    He knows what side his bread is buttered on.

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  50. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    Mr Dunne has taken a public position opposed to tobacco control.

    Same old. Bull.

    How much has tobacco tax gone up while he is Minister of Revenue?

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  51. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “….Well Phuck me silly……Winston Peters has been voted 3rd sexiest male politician behind John Key and Simon Bridges in the 2013 Durex poll….”

    John Key? He’s nothing more than a flaccid metrosexual……he obviously got the gay vote……. and PG’s !

    And the ‘poor’ vote….they want to do him up the arse too :cool:

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  52. Rhodie (28 comments) says:

    Isn’t it a sickening indictment we have in today’s society when those who call themselves “military” are quite happy taking part in the Poofters Parade? This, I assume, with official sanction? All those should now be dishonourably discharged, including those who endorsed / funded it.

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  53. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    This is good. The oldest most advanced civilisation on our planet, 12,000 years ago.

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  54. cha (4,019 comments) says:

    Cha, for Glen Beck, that sounds like a reasonable theory

    He’s laying the groundwork to use the prospect of another black Marxist fifth columnist at large to sell more gold and freeze dried food to his dupes.

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  55. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    And look at this google result on “pope resignation vatican bank”

    Indeed, Reid. You get this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/9873281/Pope-Benedict-XVIs-resignation-A-drama-that-beats-any-Dan-Brown-plot.html

    The important part being the article, not the headline, which is the opposite of some conspiracy.

    You see, Reid, the hoof beats were in fact horses…

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  56. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    We don’t know yet do we Bhudson. I was simply saying “keep an eye on this issue,” I wasn’t saying, “this is the definite reason” (for the Pope’s resignation). However you seem to have some special perspicacity which the rest of us don’t share, that allows you to rule this out immediately, based on a couple of examples which you’ve read since you first learned about it, which I assume was when you clicked that link I provided.

    Wow. You’re either really good, or you’re basing your analysis on facts other than those known generally to date, if so what are those? I suspect you don’t have anything additional, it’s simply because you can’t possibly imagine it could be true therefore it’s not, in your mind and you won’t consider it further. Which is IMO a foolish response, given the gravity of the Papacy in global geopolitics.

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  57. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    As opposed to you constantly looking for zebras Reid.

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  58. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    As opposed to you constantly looking for zebras Reid.

    It’s all hypothesis bhudson and when you stop hypothesising you lose the ability properly to analyse a subject. And when you run all the current hypotheses against the facts as they emerge it gives you predictive power and if it didn’t do that then what’s the point, but it does for me, that’s why I do it.

    There’s a subconscious tendency to reject evidence that contradicts a topic if it conflicts with a conclusion you’ve made on it. Conversely you more easily accept evidence that supports your conclusion. This is the origin of cognitive dissonance. This is the seed which emotion wraps itself around.

    For this reason I long ago stopped drawing conclusions about most things.

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  59. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    As opposed to you constantly looking for zebras Reid.

    What are you trying to say?

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  60. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    For this reason I long ago stopped drawing conclusions about most things.

    Your comments on KB show you have done no such thing Reid.

    Calling what you make hypotheses may be considered somewhat generous by some, if not many, Reid. They may be considered to be more WAGs – Wild Assed Guesses.

    Or out and out conspiracy theories

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  61. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    UglyTruth,

    It comes from the phrase: “Don’t go looking for zebras, just cause you hear hoofbeats…It’s probably just a horse.”

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  62. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    Oh I phrase them strongly bhudson this is because if you don’t then people won’t read them. The only reason I’ve been more overt about them in recent years is because time is running short, when you look at the state of the world. So I’ve deliberately gone straight into the most unbelievable aspects and there are a few more I’ve never mentioned, because it’s an urgent need.

    It is not my hallucination that the US has a gestapo in waiting (the TSA) and legislation that allows detention for life without trial, rendition and torture for any citizen in the world, hundreds of FEMA camps, drones about to be used to surveil domestic US cities, etc. This is all real. Sorry, it is.

    This is why it’s an urgent need.

    Wild Assed Guesses

    Only to the ill-informed who doesn’t have knowledge of the evidence bhudson. This is often because they don’t care to inform themselves because they think they already know the answer. Isn’t that silly of them.

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  63. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    bhudson,

    It could also be said that the simplest explanation is the most probable one. The simplest explanation for evidence of a conspiracy is that a conspiracy exists. This isn’t to say that the resignation is a conspiracy, only that the context of paedophilia, lawsuits, intrigue, and the low number of resignations make the vatican’s explanation less tenable.

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  64. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    This is often because they don’t care to inform themselves because they think they already know the answer.

    No. Perhaps they just don’t inform themselves of the theories you link to Reid, because they are confident they are the fairy stories of bizarre fantasists. Given that none have been proven, and by your own previous acknowledgement on this blog, are asserted on the basis of could possibly, just maybe, because anything is possible really isn’t it, theory, real evidence points to the non-believers as being the smart ones.

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  65. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    The simplest explanation for evidence of a conspiracy is that a conspiracy exists.

    No. In fact the simplest explanation is that some people want to believe it is.

    Which also supports the looking for zebras phrase.

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  66. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    bhudson if I asked you to explicate the merest bare bones of any given aspect of this stuff you couldn’t do it. This means you are making up your mind based on no knowledge whatsoever. Last I heard, that wasn’t thought a particularly brainy approach to take, on anything.

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  67. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    bhusdon,

    Belief doesn’t change the fact that the simplest explanation for evidence of something is the hypothesis that it exists.

    Or looked at another way, the simplest explanation for people wanting to believe in them is that people are aware of the historical occurrence of conspiracy.

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  68. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Oh dear. It seems that some of the people praising Darth Ratzinger for resigning from office before dying, and claiming that this was the right thing to do, had previously praised John Paul II for dying in office and claiming that this was the right thing to do.

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  69. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    you are making up your mind based on no knowledge whatsoever

    Reid, that which is informing your conspiracy theories is not knowledge, but horseshit. It is good for mushrooms, but not a whole lot else.

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  70. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Belief doesn’t change the fact that the simplest explanation for evidence of something is the hypothesis that it exists.

    @UglyTruth,

    No – and I appreciate your interpretation is willful – the simplest explanation for a conspiracy theory is not that such exists, but that people want it too. And hence, make up, distort or even mistakenly misinterpret facts to present the possibility of conspiracy.

    They go looking for zebras. And find them (in their own minds at least.)

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  71. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, over in Russia, it turns out that Vladimir Zhironovsky is a Meteor Truther. Apparently it was really a US weapons test.

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  72. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    Remember this – Kiwibloggers?

    “SOE SALES AN ELECTION PUNT”

    – Rod Oram Sunday Star Times 14 November 2011

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/business/5954962/SOE-sales-an-election-punt

    “The harder John Key tries to sell voters on reducing Crown ownership of five state-owned enterprises (SOEs), the deeper the hole he digs for himself and National. Here are the main arguments.
    None stack up.

    Investing in NZ’s future: National says it will spend much of the $5 billion to $7b of sale proceeds on the likes of schools and hospitals. But it’s bad financial management to sell productive assets to fund projects that could be financed more cheaply by debt.

    When it comes to reinvesting in productive assets, National has suggested three so far: Kiwibank deserves more capital to grow but it will be years before its market share and thus the return to the government matures; broadband but its return is even more uncertain and distant; and irrigation projects which would yield in aggregate a return of only 6.4%, a NZ Institute of Economic Research report said.

    Fiscal prudence: National says it is wiser to use cash from selling shares in SOEs rather than increasing debt. But in May’s Budget, Treasury said such a tactic would be close to cash neutral: it would avoid $400 million a year in interest but the government would forgo $300m a year in dividends and retained earnings.

    In addition, National has conceded it might have to delay the sales if global market turmoil persists. Treasury said foreign investors are important to the sales to help maximise the return to the government. But the dividend outflow overseas will increase our growing current account deficit and very high net international liabilities, the two chronic NZ weaknesses which worry credit rating agencies the most.

    “Mixed ownership” will improve the SOEs performance: “We’re trying to replicate the Air NZ model for power companies,” Key has said. But the airline’s success has nothing to do with the fact 26.2% of the company’s shares are stockmarket-listed.

    It is an excellent company now because the Clark government invested $1b in it in 2001 to bail it out of bankruptcy, put in place the right board and management, and because the government was a wise, supportive owner as the airline invested billions in new aircraft, products and services.

    The Crown has got some reward along the way in the form of $446m in dividends. But the share price today has dropped back to close to the rescue price of 10 years ago because the aviation sector is a notoriously poor and volatile profit earner. By far the biggest reward from Air NZ’s success accrues to the country as a whole through its growing flight schedule, commitment to innovation and NZ design and branding, and its high standing in the global aviation industry.

    If a National-led government offers you shares in Air NZ, run a mile.

    As Warren Buffet of the United States, arguably the world’s greatest investor, noted after his bruising involvement in USAir in the 1980s: “The money that had been made since the dawn of aviation by all of this country’s airline companies was zero.”

    Air NZ says it is not capital constrained. It can fund all the new aircraft it needs through leases and cash flow. So if you want to give it your full support, buy its tickets not its shares.

    As for other SOEs, “there is little evidence to suggest privatisation would significantly improve the financial performance of many of the SOE companies”, Treasury concluded last year. Moreover, Treasury noted, the electricity generators have had the money to invest in sufficient new generating capacity. The SOEs are enterprising. Meridian Energy, for example, invested profitably in hydro generation in Australia, paying a $600m special dividend to the Crown when it sold.

    Comparing SOEs with Contact Energy and Trustpower, the two power companies already on the stock exchange, found no conclusive evidence of under-performance of the SOEs, Treasury said.

    Boost the stockmarket: If the NZX attracted more companies and investors, the greater depth and liquidity of the market might slightly lower the cost of capital in New Zealand. But liquidity is concentrated in a small group of big stocks. Thus, adding a handful of partial floats of large SOEs won’t help smaller stock much.

    “We think the gains would be modest,” Treasury said.

    Worse, the SOE floats would do little to improve investor choices.

    The market is already over-represented in electricity stocks thanks to Contact, Transpower, Infratil and Vector. Even the simplest, most prudent portfolio strategy would argue against increasing exposure to the sector.

    If the government were serious about helping the NZX develop, it would deliver on all the recommendations of the capital markets development taskforce.

    The taskforce said the most important remedies were to increase the household savings rate and remove tax distortions and other regulatory impediments.

    So, given the economics of SOE sales are so poor and the politics so unpalatable, judging by voter resistance expressed in the polls, it remains a mystery why Key is exercising such bad economic and political judgement.

    oram@clear.net.nz
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    (errrr…… maybe because ‘shonky’ John Key is a former Wall St bank$ter (who still owns shares in the Bank of America), and is looking after the interests of his U$A (and other) corporate, investor and bank$ter mates?)

    Remember THIS statement?

    “Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell”

    (Tony Ryall, Minister of SOE’s 17/6/2012 NBR

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/govt-wont-sell-assets-if-it-cant-get-good-price-ryall-ck-121435

    (Tony Ryall is STILL the Minister of State-Owned Enterprises……..)

    ______________________________________________________________________

    REMEMBER THIS PRECEDENT?

    In 2008, Contact Energy (already privatized) doubled their directors fees and raised their prices 12%.
    In 6 months, more than 40,000 customers switched from Contact Energy and their profits were halved.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/droughts/news/article.cfm?c_id=180&objectid=10590906&pnum=0

    SO! IF MIGHTY RIVER POWER’S MAIN RETAIL ARM – MERCURY ENERGY – LOSES THOUSANDS OF CUSTOMERS – (WHO ‘SWITCH’ TO GENESIS / MERIDIAN / ENERGY-ON-LINE) – THEN THEIR PROFITS WILL DROP – MAKING THEM AN UNATTRACTIVE INVESTMENT – SO THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET A ‘GOOD’ PRICE.

    (Why do you think that there are so many Mercury Energy reps knocking on people’s doors, trying to get more ‘customers’? )

    Come on folks!

    It’s PEOPLE POWER TIME!!!!

    HELP STOP THE PRIVATISATION OF MIGHTY RIVER POWER – SWITCH OFF MERCURY ENERGY!

    Penny Bright

    A spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy community group.

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner.’

    2013 Auckland Mayoral Candidate :)

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  73. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    When actually we know it was illuminati communications. You see, while they still use light, they are so in control of the world that they don’t need to encase it in glass like the proles using fibre optic networks have to.

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  74. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    bhudson, how is it that conspiracies are the exception to the rule (of evidence) for you, if not for your apparent belief that they don’t exist?

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  75. Yvette (2,820 comments) says:

    Penny Bright, as a result of her over-zealous attempts to smear John Banks name through her utterly obsessive campaigns, has now managed by Police responses, those of the Serious Fraud Office, the Finance Markets Authority and last year, a petition to Parliament – highest court in the land – “That the House conduct an urgent inquiry into the decisions regarding prosecutions relating to the Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009″ – Penny Bright has cleared John Banks of any wrong-doing, after the considerations of all these agencies.

    In a similar misdirected manner, Richard Prosser’s actions had this result –

    Motions — Human Rights—Freedom from Religious and Ethnic Discrimination
    13 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:1
    Dr RUSSEL NORMAN: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thanks to the House. I move, That this House affirm that all New Zealanders regardless of their religious faith or ethnicity should be treated equally before the law, and that the rights and dignity of all people — in particular, of Muslims — should be upheld, and that the House acknowledge the responsibility of all New Zealanders to care for one another, to honour the sanctity of each and every one of us, and to act with justice, equity, and respect in all that we say and we do.

    – Parliament has recorded EQUALITY, before the law, for all New Zealanders – and in particular, of Muslims.

    And Prosser’s Swiss pocket knife was not even actually confiscated, but only checked through with his other luggage

    And the difference between these two very silly people?
    Prosser is still in Parliament, but a majority think he should be out –

    Should MP Richard Prosser resign over his comments about Muslims?
    Yes 3397 votes, 70.3%
    No 1434 votes, 29.7%
    Total 4831 votes
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8295162/Wogistan-MP-should-resign-Islamic-leader

    – while tarnished Penny is out of Parliament and still trying to get in.

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  76. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    another stoneagers rort uncovered

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8612027/nz-first-attacks-maori-healing-spending

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  77. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    how is it that conspiracies are the exception to the rule (of evidence) for you

    @UglyTruth,

    They are not an exception to the rule – they prove it [looking for zebras]

    You assertion that the simplest explanation for a conspiracy theory is that evidence must exist is incorrect. Such a statement claims that if someone says there is a conspiracy that evidence must exist. That is patently not the case. The simplest explanation for a conspiracy theory is that people want to believe there is one.

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  78. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    Don’t YOU believe in ‘one law for all’ Yvette?

    Or do you believe that John Banks, Minister of Small Business and Regulatory Reform, who is effectively holding the balance of power in New Zealand – ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world (along with Denmark and Finland), should be politically protected at the highest levels of Government?

    Do YOU support ‘dodgy’ John Banks being protected by ‘shonky’ John Key?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    Anti-corruption campaigner.’

    2013 Auckland Mayoral Candidate

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  79. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Don’t YOU believe in ‘one law for all’

    Especially as it pertains to the payment of rates to local body authorities. In fact perhaps Parliament could amend legislation to allow for greater penalties and easier recouping of monies from those serial non-payers.

    Would you vote for that ‘one law for all’ Penny? Or are you happy using facilities, amenities and services that all other ratepayers are being forced to pay for on your behalf?

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  80. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    bhudson, proof isn’t relevant here. The argument is about the most probable explanation for evidence of something, be it a meteorite, a conspiracy, or anything else.

    You assertion that the simplest explanation for a conspiracy theory is that evidence must exist is incorrect.

    You have misrepresented me. What I said was: “The simplest explanation for evidence of a conspiracy is that a conspiracy exists”.

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  81. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    @UglyTruth,

    Not at all. The simplest explanation for evidence of a conspiracy theory is that people want to believe there is one. (Unless the evidence is irrefutable proof of such – which we have yet to see.)

    The fact that someone has stitched together a story from partial information, inferences and (very often) the unproven ‘evidence’ that there have been other conspiracies, or that there are conspiratorial groups, does not actually constitute evidence of a conspiracy. And certainly not proof thereof. It represents a theory that they want to believe – so they went out to find the zebras they were sure were there.

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  82. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    bhudson, again, you misrepresented me when you said:

    You assertion that the simplest explanation for a conspiracy theory is that evidence must exist is incorrect.

    Nothing that I have posted agrees with that.

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  83. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    Reid, that which is informing your conspiracy theories is not knowledge, but horseshit. It is good for mushrooms, but not a whole lot else.

    bhudson, bear in mind that is merely your opinion: i.e. not based on evidence (as in, where is it, at all, in anything you’ve said today, for example). In which case why would I care?

    If you wish to critique anything I promulgate go ahead.

    But use facts in your counter-arguments, not your opinion. I don’t care about the latter, only about the former.

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  84. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Marriage is not so much being extended to same-sex couples as being taken over by them.

    UK columnist Brendan O’Neill – “How the gay-marriage campaign has unleashed a bureaucratic assault on people’s identities”.

    “Anyone who thinks the introduction of gay marriage will give rise to a new era of liberty and choice should look at the Canadian experience. There, the passing of the 2005 Civil Marriage Act, which allows same-sex unions, unleashed a phenomenal amount of state meddling in families and relationships. Most notably, the state utterly overhauled the traditional language of the family, airbrushing from official documents terms such as ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ and even ‘mother’ and ‘father’. The Orwellian obliteration of such longstanding identities, which mean a great deal to many people, demonstrates that modern politicians are more than happy to ride roughshod over the majority in their desperate pursuit of some PC political points.”

    “Such tinkering with lingo, the replacement of words that have real depth and meaning for millions of people with bureaucratic terms that no normal person uses, reveals the social-engineering instinct that lies behind the gay-marriage campaign. Because this is not simply about elevating gay relationships, as we are so often told – more importantly, it is about demoting and devaluing traditional relationships, as built on marriage as it was once understood. Who in their right mind introduces their husband or wife as their ‘spouse’? What normal woman describes herself as ‘Parent 1’ to her children rather than ‘mother’? No one does. The emergence of such vapid terminology on the back of the gay-marriage bandwagon shows that traditional identities will be trounced in the name of allowing political elites to look cool by backing gay marriage.

    “What message does it send to people who define themselves as husbands, wives, mothers or fathers when those ancient terms, so packed with moral purchase, are overnight replaced by bureaucratic BS? It doesn’t matter, it seems. Those people and their identities count for little in the face of David Cameron’s desire to look both caring and daring as he gives his blessing to gay marriage.”

    His conclusion is quite telling:

    “Gay marriage is an entirely invented issue, magicked up by a morally bereft political class desperate to appear meaningful, purposeful. So now they congratulate themselves for having made history while ordinary Brits look on in bamboozlement, decidedly unconvinced that history has happened or that our aloof, principle-lite rulers are the new Rosa Parks.”

    I wonder what John Key wants his grand kids to call him? Fuck he’s dumb! :cool:

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  85. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    I don’t care about the latter, only about the former.

    Reid,

    Given the paucity of real facts in what you state and link to, that is indeed quite rich coming from you.

    I mean rense.com for instance. There’s one giant fact-free zone.

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  86. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    e.g. bhudson, this is the sort of stuff that through my reading I get a background in, which you don’t, because you’re not interested. Of course, this never happened. Of course, duh, this factual thing that really did happen, is instead, in your view, apparently, a mere fantasy.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/zygier-was-about-to-reveal-mossad-secrets-to-australia-report-claims/

    Given the paucity of real facts in what you state and link to, that is indeed quite rich coming from you.

    bhudson this is deliberate. I give you google keywords and it’s up to you to pursue it should you wish to. This is because if I give you a site you will only look at that one, you have to make the choice, with this stuff.

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  87. Yvette (2,820 comments) says:

    Penny, why would I think John Banks to be other than cleared of your accusations?
    At your prompting the Police
    the Serious Fraud Office
    the Finance Markets Authority
    and Parliament have all cleared him of your accusations.
    You have accused Prime Minister Key of prevarications over his opinion of John Banks honesty,
    but you have provided the backing of five national legal authorities to prove there is no question of Banks position.

    Meanwhile Penny, you appear to be making use of utilities which other honest people pay rates for.
    You appear to be a common thief.
    Which in a sense is surprizing.
    Because through your actions, John Key has all the support he needs concerning John Banks honesty.

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  88. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    bhudson,

    So as well as misrepresenting me, you also misrepresent rense.

    I mean rense.com for instance. There’s one giant fact-free zone.

    The following article was linked from Rense, is it fact free as well?

    Exploding fireballs reported all over the globe: Japan, Russia, Cuba, US…

    In last 2 days exploding fireballs were reported on all sides of the world – Russia, Kazakhstan, Japan, Australia, Cuba, South Africa, Morocco, Germany, Switzerland, northern Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, UK…

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  89. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    I wonder what John Key wants his grand kids to call him? Fuck he’s dumb!

    Yeah he’s a political novice bereal, I knew that after he’d played his tax-cut card during his first election.

    Sure he can read markets. Sure he’s talented in lots of areas. But he’s not a politico. Politics is not what he’s spent a lifetime understanding and no-one really succeeds in it unless that’s what they have done. Unless you’re a quasar-level shining intellect like Lange. But Key’s definitely not that. But you can see that lifetime of learning in Muldoon, Reagan, Thatcher, Hulun, etc. But Key is following, clumsily, Hulun’s formula, in the hope some of it will rub off on him. So he’ll be known as “the greatest PM NZ has ever seen.” That’s the act Key reckons himself, he has to follow. This is why he’s an amateur. We all know Hulun was in fact the worst, but Key didn’t, when he started the job.

    This is why I’m so disappointed in him. It’s the reason he hasn’t attacked interest-free student loans. He wants a killer like that, for himself. This is what he hopes the TPP is going to be, for him. But the fool and apparently his advisers never realised that interest-free student loans is a millstone and we had one chance and one only to get rid of it. The GFC. But no. Key blew that chance, it’s now passed. Possibly if he had his time again knowing what he knows now, he wouldn’t blow it. But I don’t pay our PM to learn on the job.

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  90. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Isn’t it discriminatory to call people Parent 1 and Parent 2?

    I mean who decides which is which….and why is Parent 1 first before Parent 2…who says they are more important?

    Isn’t it Equality for all ?……………..…The fucken stupidity of it all!!

    Quite frankly I am offended that as a Father, I would be relegated to this ridiculous description….

    Maybe I can use the governments anti-discrimination laws to sue for being ‘offended’ and ‘insulted’ and ‘having my feelings hurt’!

    Nz’ers are fucken stupid if they can’t see the hypocracy in all this ‘gay equality’ arguement that has been FOISTED upon them.

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  91. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    Latest TV1 Colmar Brunton Political Poll, Nats up Liarbour down, Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

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  92. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    @UglyTruth,

    Good to know you rate rense.com. Says a great deal, but is not surprising.

    (Also I haven’t misrepresented you, but decided that continuing to try to show you how the logic in your statement failed was futile. It is also clear that the ‘end game’ in that line of argument for you is a rather circular and deeply flawed idea that people thinking there are conspiracies means that there are – or that they wouldn’t think that they were if there wasn’t truth to it (to put it a little nicer.))

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  93. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    bhudson this is deliberate

    Yes, Reid, I agree. The paucity of facts in your comments is deliberate.

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  94. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    Reid#

    “…But Key is following, clumsily, Hulun’s formula, in the hope some of it will rub off on him. So he’ll be known as “the greatest PM NZ has ever seen.”…”

    Key is playing what Paul Keating calls the ‘incremental policy’ card. You introduce a policy that is weak with or without the announcment that it will be ‘reviewed’, you then change it more towards what the voters want at the next election – if the polls show that you should. You ‘look’ like you are listening but as Keating said “You end up with poor policy, policy that generally keeps people happy rather than what is better for them.” – or something like it.

    Roger Douglas said the same thing years ago “You should introduce policy as quickly as possable otherwise it gets bogged down by politics on both sides, and is weakened so as to be politicly advantagous at the next election. But if you do it quickly, people have to accept that, and they get on with it in their lives.” – or something like it.

    But to Keys defence, MMP in NZ just makes matters worse if you are ‘too hard’ with policy, as the likes of the bottom feeders, Labour, NZFirst & the Greens, get their votes from the ‘disadvantaged’ – and every policy has them!

    Policy is either good OR bad, right OR wrong, politicians know this – it’s the voters who they appease that don’t care.

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  95. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    Dear Yvette,

    I have disputed paying rates – because I (and ALL Aucklanders) am NOT being told exactly where rates monies are being spent.

    I WILL NOT PAY rates as long as citizens and ratepayers are not being given the NAMES of the consultants/ contractors ; SCOPE of their contracts; TERM and VALUE of these contracts.

    I for one, do believe in ‘open, transparent and democratically-accountable’ local (AND central Government).

    (Which is actually the LAW, which elected representatives swear an oath to uphold?)

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM171803.html

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM171810.html

    14 Principles relating to local authorities

    (1)In performing its role, a local authority must act in accordance with the following principles:

    (a)a local authority should—

    (i)conduct its business in an open, transparent, and democratically accountable manner;

    (fa)a local authority should periodically—

    (i)assess the expected returns to the authority from investing in, or undertaking, a commercial activity; and

    (ii)satisfy itself that the expected returns are likely to outweigh the risks inherent in the investment or activity; and

    (g)a local authority should ensure prudent stewardship and the efficient and effective use of its resources in the interests of its district or region; and

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    If all this ‘contracting-out’ is so ‘efficient’ compared with former ‘in-house’ service provision – HOW COME RATES KEEP GOING UP?????

    I take full personal responsibility for my actions.

    Most folk don’t have the guts to do what I’m doing – ie: making a STAND ON PRINCIPLE.

    However – history has proven that “FAINT HEART NEVER WON FAIR GO” ? (As it were……. :)

    Kind regards,

    Anti-corruption campaigner.’

    2013 Auckland Mayoral Candidate

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  96. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    Most folk don’t have the guts to do what I’m doing

    On the other hand, most folk have the guts to pay their rates.

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  97. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/8mp4hkqiz6j1exj/Mars.jpg

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  98. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    A man was feeling low so he went to confession.
    “I’ve been having terrible thoughts Father”, he began.
    “I keep having a recurring dream about a young boy, who must be at about eight, coming into my bedroom at night. He gently wakes me, I brush his golden locks with my fingers, pinch his chubby cheeks before he gives me an amazing blow job. Am I paedophile father?”
    There was a pause and a cough from the next booth.
    “Paedophile is such a strong word”, muttered the Priest,”Now this fat little blonde boy….what was he wearing?….”

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  99. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    http://about.bnef.com/2013/02/07/renewable-energy-now-cheaper-than-new-fossil-fuels-in-australia/
    This new ranking of Australia’s energy resources is the product of BNEF’s Sydney analysis team, which comprehensively modeled the cost of generating electricity in Australia from different sources. The study shows that electricity can be supplied from a new wind farm at a cost of AUD 80/MWh (USD 83), compared to AUD 143/MWh from a new coal plant or AUD 116/MWh from a new baseload gas plant, including the cost of emissions under the Gillard government’s carbon pricing scheme. However even without a carbon price (the most efficient way to reduce economy-wide emissions) wind energy is 14% cheaper than new coal and 18% cheaper than new gas.

    Funny some keep insisting wind and solar are prohibitively expensive
    Were do they get their information from?
    :lol:

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  100. Nookin (3,344 comments) says:

    Yvette said
    “You have accused Prime Minister Key of prevarications over his opinion of John Banks honesty,
    but you have provided the backing of five national legal authorities to prove there is no question of Banks position.

    Meanwhile Penny, you appear to be making use of utilities which other honest people pay rates for.
    You appear to be a common thief.”

    Yvette, regretfully, overlooked the fact that Penny’s standard riposte is that she has never been convicted of theft. Such a defence is not, of course, available to Banks. That is because Penny does not believe in one law for all. Penny, in fact, believes that there is one law for her, one law for people she doesn’t like and one law for everyone else. The law, as it applies to Penny, is very fluid and changes according to her whim.

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  101. Yvette (2,820 comments) says:

    Penny, did you make it clear in all your advertising and publicity as a 2013 Auckland Mayoral Candidate that you were not currently paying your rates and hadn’t done so since 2008?
    In promoting ONE LAW FOR ALL did you tell voters you are in fact a law breaker?

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  102. calendar girl (1,236 comments) says:

    Penny Bright: “I have disputed paying rates .. ” That’s a weak euphemism for breaking the law. As your first principle of activism, you should stand up and fight for the Rule of Law in New Zealand. Take that course, and the rest of us might be prepared to take you seriously. Continue with your present, deliberate, unlawful activity, and you deserve to have your property seized and sold to pay your debts to the people of Auckland. Your choice, but please stop treating us as fools.

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  103. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Geert Wilders has reached Australia. What sort of coverage will his visit get here in NZ?…Let me guess…more of the usual uninformed faux outrage and selective blindness. yawn.

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  104. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    A new Australian political party called, Rise-up Australia, who have the tag line, ‘Keep Australia Australian’.

    RUAP National President Daniel Nalliah’s Speech at National Press Club / Live Webcast 7pm as RUAP Party Kicks Off Victorian State Campaign with Lord Monckton this Sat 16th Feb for the Federal Election
    http://catchthefire.com.au/2013/02/ruap-national-president-daniel-nalliahs-speech-at-national-press-club-live-webcast-7pm-as-ruap-party-kicks-off-victorian-state-campaign-with-lord-monckton-this-sat-16th-feb-for-the-federal-electio/
    Christopher ‘Lord’ Monckton was the guest of honour at the launch of a new Australian political party called, Rise-up Australia,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Nalliah El president.
    “Bushfires were a product of God’s wrath in response to liberalisation of Abortion laws in the state. And also that the Queensland Floods had something to do with Rudd speaking out in defence of the Palestinians.”

    We need a party like this in New Zealand
    Give the ditto heads, teabaggers and assorted god struck nutbars someone to vote for
    :lol:
    even reddy

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  105. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Griff we get our information from the facts. The example you give proves nothing. The real power plants have an emissions tax placed on them, to make alternative energy look economically viable, which they are not.

    Sorry mate, but the failure of windmills is well recorded. They simply do not work.

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  106. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    CCC would see their vote halved Griff. :)

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  107. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    griff

    the product of BNEF’s Sydney analysis team, which comprehensively modeled the cost of generating electricity in Australia from different sources. The study shows that electricity can be supplied from a new wind farm at a cost of AUD 80/MWh (USD 83), compared to AUD 143/MWh from a new coal plant or AUD 116/MWh from a new baseload gas plant

    The current cost of electricity in Australia varies from about $30 (Tasmania) to around $60 (NSW) per MWH based on daily average price. Not $140/MWH as per the fiction you cite. The giveaway is the word “modeled”. Models are make-believe griff.
    The ‘study’ you cite is fiction, and is based on making electricity more expensive so that renewables look better in comparison.

    You don’t care though do you, even if it means the poor and frail suffer and die in larger numbers because power prices rise sharply. It’s all about supporting the cause for you. You’re a fucking turd griff. And a turd-fucker, you turd-fucking turd.

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  108. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Kea
    As you can not read that many words in one sitting I will give you the relevant sentence in my post.

    “However even without a carbon price (the most efficient way to reduce economy-wide emissions) wind energy is 14% cheaper than new coal and 18% cheaper than new gas.”

    At a guess you did not read the bit were I question the source of some posters information either.
    Your arse seems to be your normal starting point for facts.

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  109. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Having said that about renewables, I support more hydro. It’s the best generation method IMO, and it really fucks off the green taliban.

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  110. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Oh griff, your arse seems to be your only source for facts.

    you’re wrong, you’re wrong, and you’re wrong again, turd-fucking turd.

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  111. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Totally agree on hydro it should be the starting point of any discussion on green technology.
    Wind and Small Scale hydro are prohibitively expensive mostly due to the RMA and Nimby’s
    As to the turd bit

    http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/recursive-fury-the-involvement-of-conspiracist-ideation-in-rejection-of-science/
    “darker corners of the climate change “sceptic” movement, …. culture of conspiracy that permeates parts of the sceptic community.
    The media has ignored the very public, and easily sourced, claims about conspiracies, international bankers and world governments by the likes of Lord Monckton, David Evans and Jo Nova.”

    Does it smells like conspiracy thinking.?

    :lol:

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  112. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Just because you label something a conspirawhacky doesn’t make it so griff. $300 billion for ‘climate action’ to 2020 in the EU alone – you claim sceptics are bought off with a few million dollars, there is hundreds of times the incentive – just in Europe. Try and be consistent. Why do you think it’s a ‘big oil’ conspirawhacky based on chicken feed sums compared to what’s being paid to alarmists? You’re illogical and inconsistent. And a turd-fucking turd who seems happy for people to die as long as it’s for the cause.

    You’re a turd-fucking conspirawhacky theorist.

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  113. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    You know, you add up all the money that you can claim big oil paid to sceptics, and it would be less than big oil paid to ONE university to study climate. And that still leaves all the other sources of hundreds of billions of dollars paid to fund the alarm.

    Thankfully nature can’t be bought off, no warming for 16 years.

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  114. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    No link to you source rn with such a insulting tone you should back your claim.

    http://electricitywizard.com.au/electricity/electricity-cost/electricity-cost-per-kwh
    The electricity cost per kWh in Queensland for domestic uses is 22.759 cents;
    However, since off-peak electricity for nighttime usage is much less expensive when electricity is in low demand, the off-peak electricity cost per kWh in Queensland is as little as 9.284 cents per kWh.

    Yes right now the average may be lower. In the day time when the sun shines is the appropriate one for solar
    You need to know the ratios to 24 hours for each tariff not just the average tariff :wink:

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  115. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    griff, in 2010, the average price on the short term electricity market was about A$30/MWh. That’s a clue for free.

    You should have fact checked your source before falling for it hook, line and sinker. You can find it yourself.

    How much is solar going to cost at night-time griff? It’s off-peak and all, so I guess real cheap huh?

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  116. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    16 years.
    :lol;
    in the rss maybe.
    since it includes the cooling upper atmosphere.
    or is fifteen point 75 the new sixteen found on the hat cru 3 temperature series Were the rapid warming of the poles are not included.
    or is it ten years ? eight years?
    A small blatant distortion Is usually called a lie AKA smelly shit.

    The sad fact is the ocean warming over the last decade has increased.
    The extra warmth going into planet earth is the equivalent of three Hiroshima bombs per second :sad:
    90% percent of the warming is into the oceans.

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  117. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Oops, forgot to add turd-fucking turd. Turd-fucking turd.

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  118. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    The price for building a wind turbine is naturally always related to their maximum power output. The term a “3MW wind turbine” seems to imply that has been built to produce the lion’s share of 3MW wind. But that turbine, over a year, yields on average no more than the just mentioned 18% or in extremely rare cases 30% of that power. What this really means is that one pays for a machine meant to produce 3 MW but the electricity it yields amounts to only 18 to 30% of that, and it is made available by means of unpredictable fluctuations. Have another look at the graphics! This means that 70 to 82% of the money spent is wasted. (Imagine a steam turbine of 600 MW maximum power but which will not yield with more that and average 150 MW just because there happens to be so little steam). Wind turbines are very efficient Capital Liquidators.

    That is also why it is not fair to compare prices between the kWh reliably and conventionally produced in plants and the price of kWh produced by Wind turbines in a highly unreliable and precarious manner, not allowing a solid deal on their delivery to the energy market. “Normal kWh” and “wind turbine kWh” do not have the same monetary value. Insisting on this is like comparing a case with half rotten apples with a case of first quality ones.

    http://www.windenergy-the-truth.com/drie.html

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  119. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “The sad fact is the ocean warming over the last decade has increased” – most land ocean indexes over the last decade show a cooling trend – according to the trend calculator at SS, you turd-fucking turd.

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  120. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Their prices have skyrocketed
    And this was before carbon costs

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  121. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Griff, oceans are massive. They take a very very long time to heat up, or cool down. Centuries, not years.

    “How the Oceans Get Warm
    Warming the ocean is not a simple matter, not like heating a small glass of water. The first thing to remember is that the ocean is not warmed by the overlying air.

    Let’s begin with radiant energy from two sources: sunlight, and infrared radiation, the latter emitted from the “greenhouse” gases (water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and various others) in the lower atmosphere. Sunlight penetrates the water surface readily, and directly heats the ocean up to a certain depth. Around 3 percent of the radiation from the Sun reaches a depth of about 100 meters.

    The top layer of the ocean to that depth warms up easily under sunlight. Below 100 meters, however, little radiant energy remains. The ocean becomes progressively darker and colder as the depth increases. (It is typical for the ocean temperature in Hawaii to be 26°C (78°F) at the surface, and 15°C (59°F) at a depth of 150 meters.”

    http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/ocean.html

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  122. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Correction – ALL the land ocean indexes show a cooling trend for the last decade.

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  123. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “Their prices have skyrocketed
    And this was before carbon costs”

    They dropped in 2011 from 2010. You’re a lying turd-fucking turd.

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  124. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    So you quoted out of date as well as unlinked data.
    With a added spin of distortion the reality of chargers.
    off peek low pricing will be 2300 to 0600 at best .
    No links to your data and you call me turd .
    Turd is the smelly conspirowhacky universe you base your reality on.

    Kea have you installed a turbine?
    No one considers the capacity of a wind system upon only the rated maximum output
    same with solar.
    You just linked to another of the nutbar spin sites that make up shit and distort reality .
    :lol:
    Critical thinking: who are you linking to, why do they supply the information, can they be trusted, who pays the bills?

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  125. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “So you quoted out of date as well as unlinked data.”
    YOU posted a steaming pile of fiction based on models.
    “With a added spin of distortion the reality of chargers.
    Not even trying to decipher this.
    “off peek low pricing will be 2300 to 0600 at best ”
    My figures were average wholesale electricity prices (i.e. even higher than actual generation costs) – are you telling me the $140/MWH your fiction referenced wasn’t an average?
    “No links to your data and you call me turd .”
    You should do your own fact checking, I’m not your mum. And I call you turd as freely as you call me denier. Turd.
    “Turd is the smelly conspirowhacky universe you base your reality on.”
    You seem to be addressing yourself here.

    “Critical thinking: who are you linking to, why do they supply the information, can they be trusted, who pays the bills?”
    Yes, you are addressing yourself here.

    Turd-fucker.

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  126. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Griff, why do wind farms need subsidies to operate ?

    While other forms of energy get punitive taxes and still make money.

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  127. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Here, you’re too lame to get the data yourself obviously. Turd-fucker.
    http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/109921/13-carbon-prices-appendixd.pdf

    Table D.1 Average NEM prices
    Australia, January 2011 to April 2011
    Region Daily average Peak average (7am–10pm)
    A$/MWh A$/MWh
    New South Wales 59 98
    Victoria 33 45
    Queensland 50 81
    South Australia 46 76
    Tasmania 27 29
    Source: AEMO (2011b).

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  128. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    RightNow. Griff has gone a bit shy.

    Maybe you can tell me why those economically viable windmills require millions and millions of dollars in subsidies ?

    Germany’s wind power chaos should be a warning to the UK
    Germany has gone further down the ‘renewables’ path than any country in the world, and now it’s paying the price

    Like all enthusiasts for “free, clean, renewable electricity”, they overlook the fatal implications of the fact that wind speeds and sunlight constantly vary. They are taken in by the wind industry’s trick of vastly exaggerating the usefulness of wind farms by talking in terms of their “capacity”, hiding the fact that their actual output will waver between 100 per cent of capacity and zero. In Britain it averages around 25 per cent; in Germany it is lower, just 17 per cent.

    Having poured hundreds of billions of euros in subsidies into wind and solar power, making its electricity bills almost the highest in Europe….

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9559656/Germanys-wind-power-chaos-should-be-a-warning-to-the-UK.html

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  129. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I could tell you Kea, but I’d be accused of being a conspirawhacky theorist because my explanation revolves around politicians handing out money to their pals in the renewables industry. All evidence and logic shows wind is a steaming pile of turd, yet still it goes on.

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  130. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Correction. BILLION of dollars in subsidies, not millions.

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  131. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    griff’s busy looking for a way to spin the facts to fit his beliefs.

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  132. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    He might be tucking his kids (Moonbeam and Aquarius) into bed. It takes a while for them to settle due to the prickly (organically grown) hemp sheets.

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  133. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    RightNow (4,910) Says:
    February 17th, 2013 at 10:48 pm
    I could tell you Kea, but I’d be accused of being a conspirawhacky theorist because my explanation revolves around politicians handing out money to their pals in the renewables industry. All evidence and logic shows wind is a steaming pile of turd, yet still it goes on.

    I used to think Griff was sincere but mistaken. Now I am not so sure. He will not answer my simple questions.

    1. Who pays the climate scientists ?

    2. Would they have that money if AGW theory was proven false ?

    3. What is the AGW industry estimated to be worth Globally ? (to the nearest few trillion dollars)

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  134. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    He’s probably dropped off the grid ‘cos the wind ain’t blowing. He should switch to a methane generator, he’d never run out.

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  135. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “He will not answer my simple questions.” – no, his ego won’t let him accept that he might be wrong. Eventually, after another decade of no warming, he’ll only talk to himself, but in different voices. It’s probably for the best, nobody else understands him anyway.

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  136. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Maybe the planets are aligned right and he is getting some nooky with his lovely vegan wife Karma.

    I hope he does not faint again, he does not have much vigor due to his diet of sprouts and lentils.

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  137. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Even something like this won’t make a dent:
    Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/

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  138. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    “Oil production technology is giving us ever more expensive oil with ever diminishing returns for the ever increasing effort that needs to be invested,” writes Raymond Pierrehumbert, basing his assessment on American Geophysical Union (AGU) data on the untapped shale oil reserves of the United States.

    According to the AGU, there are under 3 trillion barrels of shale oil in the U.S. with a 1-2% recoverability rate. Oil trapped in shale formations requires breaking up the substrate or heating it to high temperatures.

    While oil industry advocates predict endless oil abundance, geophysical data suggests the opposite scenario. Roughly 1/3 of U.S. shale oil reserves would meet consumption needs for only two years based on 2011 rates. Drilling frequency has increased five times since the year 2000, but the returns have remained static.

    The U.S. is also unlikely to surpass Saudi oil production, which exceeds U.S. production by 3.5 million barrels a day.
    http://mobile.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/02/u_s_shale_oil_are_we_headed_to_a_new_era_of_oil_abundance.html

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  139. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    hj, ok if your conclusions were correct (they are not) then there is little need to place punitive taxes on oil, as it is running out anyway.

    You can not have it both ways.

    However, your wrong. Vast oil reserves have been found recently. There is no sign of it running out any time soon. Price rises are more to do with artificially restricting production, rather than a shortage of the raw material. It makes sense for the oil produces to get a premium price for their product. Rest assured big industrial countries like China will not be basing their future on windmills.

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  140. axeman (252 comments) says:

    Yep Kea & RN . Funding for the case against global warming: The sceptics millions versus the alarmist BILLIONS.

    “Conservative billionaires used a secretive funding route to channel nearly $120m (£77m) to more than 100 groups casting doubt about the science behind climate change, the Guardian has learned.”

    Oh no, $120 million dollars over NINE YEARS split over 100 organizations! Those evil Koch bros. :-)

    Wow, the US govt alone spends 10 times that much of TAXPAYERS MONEY, per year, on pro-ALARMIST research. Even the WWF and Greenpeace spend nearly that much on the CAGW scam.

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  141. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    State-owned oil giant Petroleos Mexicanos, or Pemex, said it found reserves of up to 500 million barrels of crude in southern Mexico, a discovery that President Felipe Calderon hailed as the “biggest find” of petroleum on land in the past decade.

    Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/11/26/mexico-makes-biggest-oil-find-in-decade/#ixzz2L9QtF93G

    Drillers in Utah and Colorado are poking into a massive shale deposit trying to find a way to unlock oil reserves that are so vast they would swamp OPEC.

    A recent report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office estimated that if half of the oil bound up in the rock of the Green River Formation could be recovered it would be “equal to the entire world’s proven oil reserves.”

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-oil-find-holds-oil-opec/story?id=17536852

    Trillions of dollars worth of oil found in Australian outback
    Up to 233 billion barrels of oil has been discovered in the Australian outback that could be worth trillions of dollars, in a find that could turn the region into a new Saudi Arabia.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/9822955/Trillions-of-dollars-worth-of-oil-found-in-Australian-outback.html

    Providence predicts Irish oil boom as field reserves upgraded
    Boss of Irish explorer says that 280m barrels of recoverable oil off the Cork coast marks a ‘big moment’ for the economy

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/oct/10/irish-oil-find-bigger-providence-resources

    MASSIVE OIL DEPOSIT DISCOVERED IN ARCTIC REGION

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/01/10/massive-oil-deposit-discovered-in-arctic-region/

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  142. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Don’t Panic hj

    NIOC: Huge oil reserves discovered in Caspian Sea

    Monday, 14 May 2012

    http://www.irandailybrief.com/2012/05/14/nioc-huge-oil-reserves-discovered-in-caspian-sea/

    Recently, new oil and gas reserves have been discovered in some African countries, revealing a bright prospect of conventional energy and renewable energy sources.

    Kenya recently announced for the first time an oil discovery in the Lake Turkana region in the northeast of the country, becoming the third oil producer in East Africa following Uganda and Tanzania.

    http://www.sinopecweekly.com/content/2012-06/19/content_1186522.htm

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  143. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    @kea “Cultural Integration leads to wider roads of internationalisation” Wot that mean…. a big Chinese probiscus heading in your direction???

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  144. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Axenuckle its oil money that powers climate denial
    Of course those lovely oil billionaires just care about your future not about the billions of dollars they will lose if the world stops burning oil and coal.
    By Trusts and paid pr specialists like heartland so nobody will know how altruistic their motivation is :lol:

    Lovely Kea all the oil that will end up staying there it must fuck you off

    Right seldom that is the price calculator for energy website.
    You Put in personal details and get a price for electricity from your local supplies,
    Id say that a is a reliable source for up to date electricity pricing wouldn’t you.

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  145. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “Id say that a is a reliable source for up to date electricity pricing wouldn’t you.”

    Nope, it’s domestic pricing, not generation pricing. Get a fucking clue you turd.

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  146. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I note the fiction you posted earlier didn’t include any transmission costs, or costs of baseload backup either. Just fiction written by turds, posted by a turd.

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  147. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Here’s another clue for free, turd.
    March 2012:
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/power-bills-high-but-wholesale-prices-low/story-e6frg6nf-1226307710489

    “Wholesale electricity prices have fallen over the past three years and, at about $40 per megawatt hour, are about the same price in nominal terms that electricity generators received when the National Electricity Market was set up in 1998.”

    “Consumers are experiencing record high electricity prices and at the same time electricity generators are experiencing record low prices.”

    Once again you’re wrong, wrong and wrong. And a turd.

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  148. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    And I’ve proven you’re a liar again tonight.

    Griff (4,272) Says:
    February 17th, 2013 at 9:54 pm
    Their prices have skyrocketed
    And this was before carbon costs

    The truth from March 2012 “Wholesale electricity prices have fallen over the past three years”

    Lying turd.

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  149. axeman (252 comments) says:

    Fuck off GRIEF you lying turd. The money that I mentioned was donated into organisations that existed long before the 2002-2010 funding began, and a large part of what they are involved is non-climate change work. Stick your BIG OIL conspiracy theories up your lying turd arse. :-)

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  150. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/
    Are a bunch of turds
    Are they involved in the conspirowhacky as well?
    :lol:
    How about the insurance industry?
    http://articles.marketwatch.com/2011-09-09/commentary/30750008_1_climate-change-climate-research-community-global-warming
    http://www.businessinsider.com/insurance-industry-trust-us-global-warming-is-real-2012-3

    The members of the global conspirowhacky grow by the day

    Are they all a bunch of turds as well?

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  151. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    You were wrong griff. Apologise and admit it you turd. Insurance industry gets richer off AGW alarm moron. Of course they’re riding the gravy train. Turd

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  152. Manolo (13,780 comments) says:

    It’s only a matter of money: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2279736/Sandhurst-betrays-heroes-Mons–3m-donation-King-Bahrain.html

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  153. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    No right now Bloomberg are not wrong.
    You are.
    You have yet to link to a study that says other wise. Linking to out of date power costs does not prove you are right it just proves you are an idiot. Read the study it is the price of new capacity that is cheaper.
    bloomberg is a well respected organization best you trot off to their head office and Inform them they are wrong- tell them that global warming is a giant hoax.They would laugh at you. :lol: nutter
    Then you would get that feeling of cognitive dissonance.When the reality does not match your oil industry provided spin.

    Turd is that the best you have?

    Nutter is so apt for people that believe in conspirowhacky rubbish blindly without examining carefully the source of their story’s dont you think?

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  154. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis

    It is becoming clear that not only do many scientists dispute the asserted global warming crisis, but these skeptical scientists may indeed form a scientific consensus.

    Don’t look now, but maybe a scientific consensus exists concerning global warming after all. Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis, according to a survey reported in the peer-reviewed Organization Studies. By contrast, a strong majority of the 1,077 respondents believe that nature is the primary cause of recent global warming and/or that future global warming will not be a very serious problem.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/

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  155. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Kea would you please read the report not the heartland spin on it.
    Seems that your scientists are 80% engineers
    it also seems that Jamie is bullshiting like a good lawyer.
    His figures dont match the paper .
    In fact the paper is discussing why the oil industry is so against the science of global warming :lol:
    Nutters and there faith in other nutters :lol:

    From the study http://oss.sagepub.com/content/33/11/1477.full
    Our study demonstrates that the majority of ‘command posts’ (Zald & Lounsbury, 2010, p. 963) within organizations, especially in the petroleum industry, seem to be manned with opponents to the IPCC and anthropogenic climate science who are actively engaged in defensive institutional work.

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  156. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “bloomberg is a well respected organization” – the Salvation Army is a well respected organisation, therefore you must believe God is real?
    I gave you evidence that generation prices in Oz were around $40/MWH as recently as 11 months ago, and you’re claiming it’s outdated. You link to a retail power price calculator so I prove to you that generation costs aren’t the same as retail.
    You cite a non peer-reviewed article by an organisation that makes it’s money telling people what they want to hear that uses a model to claim wind power will be cheaper than coal some time in the future, assuming the price for coal generation more than triples.
    You add “Funny some keep insisting wind and solar are prohibitively expensive” – note you use the present tense, when all the claims are based on what could happen as long as coal generation is made artificially expensive.

    You’re a turd, a lying turd, and a halfwit. I’d say there’s a village missing you, but I don’t think you’re smart enough to be their idiot.

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  157. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “Seems that your scientists are 80% engineers”
    Engineers are vastly more respected than climate scientists.
    Would you drive over a bridge built by someone with the accuracy rate of a climate scientist?

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  158. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    from griff:

    left right and round the bend
    Do you think the peanuts will come out in your poos like the pea did last night?
    Will you eat the recycled peanut?

    I didn’t eat the poo peas griff. I’m not going to the effort of re-eating them if my system is turning it’s nose up at the fuckers. And that’s happened again. Too many peas clearly.

    I might’ve seen undigested peanuts before? Can’t remember. Will I eat recycled peanuts griff? I’ll fuckin eat them if you do cunt… hahahaha

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  159. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    LRC what gear are you on?
    you had a couple of Hunter Thompson ish rants at three o’clock this morning on yesterdays GD.perhaps some sleep, soft serve for breakfast does have merit how ever

    It wasn’t breakfast time in my day. I was at the end of my day. Let’s check the diary. Doesn’t say. Well.. what a useless cunt I am. It wasn’t the start of my day I know that much.

    And I forgot to say the brown girl did the brown feral thing where they spit all the time and she spat right in front of the front doors. Those kids are fucked mate. Totally fucked. No hope at all.

    I’m high on life man. I think I might be quite easily pleased. I have food, shelter and indoor plumbing. I have privacy. I have my freedom. I’m not sick or disabled or injured. I’m not a total moron. I am educated to some degree. The weather is nice. I’m a rich and fortunate man living in a rich first world country. Life is good today.

    And I’m not overweight anymore!!!!! YEEEEEEEEE-FUCKING-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! WAAAAAHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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