General Debate 7 March 2014

March 7th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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157 Responses to “General Debate 7 March 2014”

  1. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    “Government has been trying to throw the kitchen sink at me in the last couple of weeks just to discredit me.” – David Cunliffe.

    LOL………he’s yet to explain how he isn’t going to waste ‘other people’s money’.

    “Government has been trying to throw the economy at me in the last several months just to discredit my ability.”

    No David – you’ll do that all by yourself! :cool:

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  2. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Singapore needs migrants

    Although Singapore is ranked the third-richest country in the world, not all its citizens have benefited from its economic successes. While its super-rich parties at Pangaea, the world’s most expensive club, and sips its $26,000 cocktails, wages have only marginally increased for Singapore’s low-income groups and housing prices have reached record highs. Rogers, however, argues that limiting immigration will only worsen Singapore’s problems, “if Singapore cannot get enough labor, it will have to raise wages. Inflation will rise and Singapore might price itself out of the market over the next few years.” Drawing from historical examples, he adds that citizens in every country have always blamed immigrants for their problems.
    At the root of Singapore’s immigration policy is its worrying demographic structure. With a fertility rate of only 1.2, far below the replacement rate of 2.1 and one of the lowest in the world, Singapore will face a shrinking workforce and aging population if new immigrants are not brought in. Rogers warns that if Singapore tightens its immigration policy too much, it will become “an old age home in 10 to 20 years.” Given that more resources will then have to be expended to support the elderly, he thinks Singapore will find it “very difficult” to develop and compete with its neighboring countries.
    “Every country in history that has a backlash against foreigners,” says Rogers with air of conviction, “is going to go into decline.”

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidyin/2013/06/06/singapore-needs-immigrants-says-jim-rogers/

    GB needs more migrants too (according to Blighty)
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2014/02/immigration#comments

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  3. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Bryce Edwards is doing a column on National and overconfidence today. Smatterings of overconfidence are easily manageable.

    Large dollops of undercompetence are a much bigger problem for Labour and will be a lot harder to overcome.

    Overconfidence versus undercompetence.

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  4. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Now that it’s been shown that a high protein diet is as bad as a packet of fags can we please have plain packaging of meat and dairy products?

    Can beef cattle be moved to paddocks where we can’t see them and butter placed behind a protective shield.Milk cartons to have ugly pictures on them.

    Can we aspire to a Beef and dairy free Aotaroa by 2025?

    For God’s sake think of the children.

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  5. redqueen (567 comments) says:

    @Kowtow

    Here here… As my grandfather used to say, ‘Everything is bad for you nowadays. I’m waiting for them to shove so much spinach down a mouse’s throat that it’ll choke, die, and we’ll have headlines with “Spinach Health Warning”.’

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  6. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ kowtow (6,473 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:04 am

    I had 5 great-aunts that all lived well into their 90’s with great minds and able bodies (at least until the last hour or so).

    Their motto was everything in moderation. They did however insist on eating a banana a day and drinking a glass of warm milk and yeast before bed – not sure of the reasoning for that though.

    Anyway, I think they are right – and perhaps that is the message that should be on the packets – sure have some – but don’t over-indulge. Apparently even water can kill if consumed in enough quantity.

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  7. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Yes kowtow think of those poor kids having to support the age and infirm.
    Die early and save your kids the cost.
    Smoke drink and eat rubbish your offspring will thank you for saving their inheritance
    Live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse

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  8. bringbackdemocracy (427 comments) says:

    Roy Morgan poll out
    Conservatives up
    NZ First and Greens down
    http://www.roymorgan.com.au/morganpoll/new-zealand/voting-intention-summary

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  9. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ griffith (3 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:12 am

    But ‘skiing’ is so much fun! (Spending Kids Inheritance).

    I have no intention of dying early to give my kids the money.
    I was fortunate enough to have a very astute great-grandfather that set up a family trust – however, NONE of us were to benefit from it when we were young. He insisted we all made our way in life first – he was not having any ‘joy riders’ in his family.

    My children have been treated the same. They will have to make their own way and learn how to work to live – in later years they may or may not benefit from the trust. Some of the family bought out of it – those of us that stayed in only borrow from it, and so it has not shrunk in value (in fact grown due to wise investing). I would hope my children would treat it the same way and regard it not as theirs, but as something to assist future generations.

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  10. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    According to Longitudinal Immigration Survey: New Zealand (LisNZ) – Wave 1 the top reasons given for migrating to NZ are:
    Relaxed pace of life or lifestyle
    Climate or the clean, green environment
    A better future for my children
    Employment opportunity
    Friendly people
    Safety from crime
    Join family members
    Easy access to outdoor or sporting activities
    Educational opportunities
    Marry or live with a NZ spouse or partner
    Political stability
    Economic conditions
    To study
    Accompany family members
    Other

    Aspects Migrants liked most about NZ

    Climate or natural beauty or clean and green
    Friendly people or relaxed pace of life
    Can achieve desired lifestyle
    Safety from crime and violence
    Recreation and leisure activities
    Small population
    Education system or educational opportunities
    Having family here
    Political stability and freedom or lack of corruption
    Cultural diversity
    Job opportunities
    Good provision of services
    Good housing
    Lack of inter-racial, ethnic or religious tensions
    Economic conditions
    Other
    None

    http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/LISNZ/HOTPWave1/L-I-S-NZ-Tables-update.xls
    80% of parents under parent unification are 55+
    Yet the NZIER (who claim to be “independant”) advocate 15 million people.

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  11. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Freedom of speech as understood by left-wing academics: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/06/rutgers-faculty-protest-condoleezza-rice-as-commencement-speaker/

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  12. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Times have changes for griff
    I am now care giver for my eighty year old dad
    He has type 2 diabetes and dementia.
    In the last 3 months since I took over his care I have changed his diet so he no longer requires medication for diabetes.
    The ongoing battle with sweet things. It may not be good for him but who wants to live with no treats?
    dementia means I repeat the same battles daily :lol:

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  13. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    I suspect P.G.’s strong feminist influence in this:
    “Holding Barbie, the quintessential fashion doll, up as a role model for Girl Scouts simultaneously sexualizes young girls, idealizes an impossible body type, and undermines the Girl Scouts’ vital mission to build `girls of courage, confidence and character,”‘ said Susan Linn.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/06/girl-scouts-urged-to-end-partnership-with-barbie/

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  14. gump (1,650 comments) says:

    @kowtow

    “Now that it’s been shown that a high protein diet is as bad as a packet of fags can we please have plain packaging of meat and dairy products?”

    ———————-

    I’m a bit hazy on the dates, but up until the 1970s margarine could only be sold in New Zealand in plain packaging and without yellow food colouring. I am also fairly sure that a doctor’s prescription was required to purchase it.

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  15. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    IN GD yesterday calendar girl made an observation about leaders ,photo ops and belittling themselves.

    As if on cue David Camoron,fake conservative and traitor to the British nation proves the point.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574745/Camerons-selfie-phone-Obama-mocked-online-comedians-animals-actor-Patrick-Stewart.html

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  16. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    griffith (4 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:12 am

    “…..Yes kowtow think of those poor kids having to support the age and infirm.
    Die early and save your kids the cost.
    Smoke drink and eat rubbish your offspring will thank you for saving their inheritance
    Live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse….”

    So you are against euthanasia then ?

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  17. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ griffith (4 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:29 am

    That is a hard battle you are fighting there griff, and at times a soul destroying one, as dementia is very hard on those who are closest.

    A life without treats seems cruel, fortunately as I’m sure you are aware there are quite a few alternatives on the market that do at least (if you don’t concentrate too hard) taste not too bad.

    We made a conscious decision to cut back and mostly exclude white sugar from our diets a year or so ago. I have to say we are a lot better for having done that. Everything from skin to energy has shown a great improvement. When I bake now, I mostly use coconut sugar, because it has a lower GI value – and it actually tastes really nice. When I do ‘lose it’ and indulge in something made with white sugar now, it usually tastes way to sweet.

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  18. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    “Girl Scouts urged to end partnership with Barbie….”

    Girl Scouts in America and Canada have been giving pro-choice speeches also.

    These are just other examples of the avenues that the left propaganda machine will march down to take control of children and society.

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  19. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Roy Morgan poll out
    Conservatives up…

    While UF bumps along at 0.5. Still, at least it didn’t get a caret (less than 0.5).

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  20. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    @griff: Despite our differences of opinion, my thoughts are with you and your family.
    Best of luck, mate.

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  21. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    Maori have ‘taken offense’ (Yet again- Yawn..) and appear to be trying to ban Google searches-

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11215320

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  22. eszett (2,417 comments) says:

    Manolo (12,334 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:25 am
    Freedom of speech as understood by left-wing academics: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/06/rutgers-faculty-protest-condoleezza-rice-as-commencement-speaker/

    Me thinks you don’t quite grasp the concept of freedom of speech, Manolo.

    The university of wanted to honour Condoleezza Rice.
    The faculty used their freedom of speech to protest against it.

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  23. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    Good on you griff. Big challenge to take on. From my own experience, for what it’s worth, I found in difficult to understand why the care teams and other specialists asked me how I was getting on looking after my father – later, I realised it was the emotional and physical pressure that was hard to release because of being so absorbed in the care. Try to remember about yourself.
    The changes you’ve made to his diet sound promising. I fell into another trap of believing I could ‘arrest’ my father’s decline, hold him steady – of course I was completely wrong. Good luck.

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  24. uncle_tom (14 comments) says:

    hj – interesting that the top two reasons are the very things that continued population growth impacts the most. We’re killing the goose and eventually there won’t any golden eggs left.

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  25. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    The Roy Morgan results

    National 48.5 (up 0.5)
    Maori Party 1.5% (up 1%)
    ACT NZ 1% (unchanged)
    United Future 0.5% (unchanged)
    Labour Party 30.5 (up 0.5)
    Greens 10.5 (down 1.5)
    New Zealand First 4.5 (down 1%)
    Mana Party 0.5% (down 0.5)
    Conservative Party of NZ 2.5% (up 1.5%)
    Internet Party 0% (down 0.5)
    Others is now 0% (unchanged)

    Polling period – February 17 to 2 March (last Sunday).

    Greens and Labour will still be worried – and the polling period missed all this week’s bad news and balls-ups for Cunliffe.

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  26. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Following longies’ link about Maori outrage brought me to another link about nazi outrage.(NZ link by the way)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11190173

    We live in such dangerous times that dressing up is a crime in France and a sackable offence in Britain.

    Of course it’s what you dress as that’s the problem.Dressing as a nazi or ‘blacking up” is not on while putting on a toga (offensive to Celts who were enslaved and decimated by the Romans) or top hat (offensive to the working classes) is OK.

    Crazy world.

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  27. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Fairfax have a real Labour-lover, scribing under the name Elton Smallman (highy appropriate name for a rainbow Labourite), who has done everything to give “Tojo” a bit of traction . . . if this is the crap Fairfax are organising via Little and unions, best a few more advertisers pull their contracts, that should finally sink these losers.

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  28. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    All things in moderation
    Try everything once.

    We don’t use salt or oil in cooking
    Red meat at least once a week for iron, Dairy for calcium and protein.Home grown veg from the garden, lots of whole grains

    No takeaways, No white flour or white sugar !

    Cheap and healthy.

    Many on low incomes are incapable of emulating a healthy diet due to a lack of knowledge not their financial restraints.

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  29. peterwn (3,275 comments) says:

    One for Judith …
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9799448/Part-of-Bain-defamation-case-struck-out

    So the photocopier salesman who met Robin Bain at Taieri Beach School and gave defence evidence about Robin has had the guts ripped out of his defamation suit against TVNZ and others. Perhaps what is left of the case is not worth continuing with in court.

    Wonder who encouraged him to bring the lawsuit and helped finance it? The photocopier company he works for?

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  30. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Catherine Delahunty

    Researchers have proven that the first years of schooling are much more successful when kids are taught in their mother tongue.

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2014/03/03/pasifika-languages-key-to-education/
    she doesn’t give references but I would have thought kids would do better being taught in a language they didn’t understand?

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  31. Bill (94 comments) says:

    Paula Bennet does not get accountability. She ducks releasing records form her office and then throws her staff under the bus.

    “Ms Bennett says she hasn’t passed on any information, but isn’t making the same assurance about her staff.

    “Well I’m confident that I haven’t but I’m not sure what every staff member does every day.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11215496

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  32. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    I see Maori + 1000 years still brings up a lot of responses on google. How often do these people review their own material or is that deliberate deception?

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  33. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Paula Bennet does not get accountability.

    She’s probably going to get Health. I suspect she’ll make a hash of it. Her mentality suits welfare but it doesn’t suit Health and she’ll be a big part of preventing National from getting a fourth term.

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  34. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    How to Fund City Growth? Value Capture

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  35. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    One for Stephie: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/372724/bolton-our-biggest-national-security-problem-barack-obama-eliana-johnson

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  36. Tauhei Notts (1,724 comments) says:

    Reid at 9.41.
    Ryall will be a tough act to follow.

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  37. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    @griff – I’ve been there so I know how tough it’ll be and the only advice I can offer is to look after yourself, talk about how things are going, build a relationship with the GP and DHB gerontology multi-disipline team, build a routine around respite care and remember that while you’re caring for your dad the gatekeepers will be reluctant to offer residential care.

    And when things become a little too much, in my experience the early evenings, try ice cream or a very very cold drink because the cold seems to work wonders in returning the sufferer, if only for a wee while, to the here and now.

    Stay strong fella.

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  38. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Debunking left-wing lies: http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/what-left-want-you-to-think.html

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  39. peterwn (3,275 comments) says:

    Reid – we shall see! If she got Health and made a hash of it, John would have plenty of time to adjust things. If I was in John’s shoes and I was considering her for Health, I would make her an Associate Health Minister now to see how things go. Actually there are strong ties between Health and Welfare so it is not a bad thing for the ministers concerned to be exposed to both portfolios at some times. For example the health system dishes out some welfare type benefits which have a health focus.

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  40. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    Looks like Obama is manning up a little…

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/06/navy-destroyer-heading-to-black-sea-as-us-fighter-jets-land-in-lithuania/

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  41. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Obummer’s not manning up.

    He’s sending other peoples sons into harms way,where the USA has no interests.

    Meanwhile if Obummer had a son he’d be acting suspiciously in some leafy neighbourhood back in the USA, not on the high seas or in Afghanistan.

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  42. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    A savage goes to jail: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8810544/jail-term-for-brutal-attack-on-puppy

    A South Taranaki man who tried to kill his partner’s seven-month-old puppy in what a judge has called a “barbaric” attack has been jailed for 12 months and banned from owning animals for 10 years.

    Manaia man George Tai Williams, 46, has been sentenced in Hawera District Court after he earlier pleaded guilty to an animal cruelty charge. He tried to kill the puppy, named Bear, by beating him with a steel mallet and putting his lifeless body into a nearby river.

    However, Bear survived the attack and managed to crawl back to the safety of his home.

    I blame the warrior gene and colonialism for his behaviour.

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  43. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    According to Judge Napolitano in the U.S, the Obama administration fomented the protests in Ukraine.

    “Guess what. They had their own government until there were riots and demonstrations in the streets. Who paid for and who fomented the riots and demonstrations in the streets? Well, if you listen to the tapped and taped phone call of Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, we did,” said Napolitano, adding that U.S. involvement stemmed from Yanukovych accepting loans from Russia instead of the EU.

    “You’re gonna say we paid those protesters?” Brian Kilmeade asked.

    Napolitano answered “absolutely,” saying the situation in Crimea is a “consequence” of the U.S. “meddling in another country.”

    http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/03/06/judge-napolitano-obama-admin-fomented-protests-ukraine

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  44. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “He’s sending other peoples sons into harms way”

    They are called professional soldiers. They do it for a living.

    “where the USA has no interests.”

    A free and stable Europe is in America’s interests, and the rest of the worlds.

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  45. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    Manolo- Google is clearly to blame for reinforcing the negative stereotype…
    Poor Mr Williams surely deserves compensation from ‘Whitey’?

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  46. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “According to Judge Napolitano”

    That would be the same Napolitano who called far leftie Ralph Nader a hero, believes in 911 conspiracy theories, and claimed legalizing inter-racial marriage led to gay marriage.

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  47. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    I would not allow a bankrupt and corrupt EU or White House determine for me what is free and stable.

    They seem to want to back their own horse no matter how “dirty” it is.

    I trust Putin more than I do the permanent political class of the west.At least he stands up for Russian interests.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573923/Estonian-Foreign-Ministry-confirms-authenticity-leaked-phone-call-discussing-Kiev-snipers-shot-protesters-possibly-hired-Ukraines-new-leaders.html

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  48. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    Any so-called ‘lefties’ out there who still to want defend ‘pro-privatisation via PPPs’ Auckland Mayor Len Brown?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11215245

    Tony Holman: CCOs a Trojan horse for privatisation

    http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201348/PPPStudyForAttachmen1.pdf

    Mayoral Position Paper on Public Private Partnerships November 2013 – written by Ernst and Young ….

    “Introduction

    The Mayor has asked for a position paper to be developed on the nature and uses of Public Private Partnerships(PPPs). This paper is to focus on the range of PPP options that may be suitable for major Council and CCO projects.
    ……………. ”

    (Note – this is the same Ernst and Young who, in my considered opinion, wrote the dodgy Len Brown cover-up report, which effectively helped to protect the Mayor from possible criminal prosecution?

    http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/Independent%20Review%20Report%20FINAL%20131213.pdf)

    But – remember the mantra?

    New Zealand is (‘perceived to be’ the least corrupt country in the world?

    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results

    Pity about the reality ……

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

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  49. EAD (1,128 comments) says:

    Judge Napolitano – is probably the most truth telling media pundit the US has ever seen. Anyone that has ever seen the clip below that resulted in him being fired by Fox cannot begin but to question the nature of politics not only in the USA, but in the wider world:

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  50. Albert_Ross (298 comments) says:

    Manolo, showing that [the majority of parents are not poor] does not debunk the statement that [the majority of the poor are parents]. The fact that group A forms a majority of group B is entirely unrelated to whether group B forms a majority of group A.

    Consider: The majority of the members of my local rugby league club are Maori. That statement is not debunked if you point out that only 0.00000001% of Maori are members of my local rugby league club.

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  51. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    is probably the most truth telling media pundit the US has ever seen.

    Yeah, a 9/11 troofer who thinks Ralph Nader is a hero and rape victims should shut the fuck up and get on with birthing their rapists child is a model of truthiness.
    /

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  52. EAD (1,128 comments) says:

    @ Cha –

    Mark Twain once said “A conspiracy is nothing but a secret agreement of a number of men for the pursuance of policies which they dare not admit in public”

    I have worked alongside a number of civil engineers in one-off projects and if you discuss 9/11 with these professional engineers and architects, they will tell you modern skyscrapers don’t just collapse on their own footprints after pathetic little fires.

    The buildings collapsed at full speed because the columns on the lower floors had been blown up. No surprise there. This was a planned demolition. The “collapse” of building 7 is simply the icing on this particular cake.

    By the way, pretty well every criminal court case includes some sort of “conspiracy”. The word “conspiracy” is not alien to the legal mind.

    Building 7 harboured a great deal of valuable information that had to “go”. For example, all the Enron records.

    And why is being called a “truther” such an insult in your eyes? Are we just supposed to shut up and accept what we are told by the media?

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  53. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    “I would not allow a bankrupt and corrupt EU or White House determine for me what is free and stable.”

    I determine it for myself, by thinking for myself.

    “They seem to want to back their own horse no matter how “dirty” it is.”

    That would certainly be true of Putin. His “horse” in the Uraine was as dirty as it gets.

    “I trust Putin more than I do the permanent political class of the west.At least he stands up for Russian interests.”

    Ohhhh, so when your America it’s bad, when your Russia it’s good. Gotya… :)

    And to hell with Georgia, the Ukraine, and any other country that gets in the way of Russia’as “interests” right? They can just go to hell, because slavery to Putin’s neo-fascist regime is sooo much better than pesky Western freedom.

    Anyone who trusts Putin is a fool.

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  54. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Never ending Stone Age imbecility: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9800233/Taonga-can-t-be-stored-near-sewage-pipes

    Storage problems at Napier’s new museum have run up against another hurdle – sewage pipes that make it culturally unacceptable for storing taonga.

    The city’s $18 million MTG (museum, theatre, gallery) building, which opened last year, was found to be big enough to store only about 40 per cent of its collection. Making the matter worse is that pipes attached to the basement ceiling contain sewage from the building’s toilets. Maori artefacts cannot be stored in the vicinity of sewage.

    Victoria University pro vice-chancellor Maori Professor Piri Sciascia said yesterday that he was “horrified” to hear the museum was built with sewage pipes running through its storage area.

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  55. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    ♪ … ♫ and Alex Jones is a journalist too.
    /

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  56. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    Back in 2010, when I stood as an Auckland Mayoral candidate in order to make a fuss about the issues, and oppose the ‘Supercity – Super Ripoff’ – this is what my little leaflet said:

    “IT’S TIME TO ROLLBACK ROGERNOMIC$!

    This is not ‘left’ vs ‘right’

    This is ‘public’ vs ‘corporate’.

    The $upercity agenda is about replacing thousands of ‘piggy in the middle’ private contractors with fewer but bigger multinational snouts into a bigger public trough.

    CUT OUT THE CONTRACTORS!

    You didn’t vote for this Auckland $upercity and Rogernomic$ blitzkreig, to seize control of $28 billion of Auckland public assets.

    7 (corporate) Council Controlled Organisations (CCOs) will grab 75% of Auckland regional rates.

    Do you want unelected businesspeople controlling your interests? These CCOs will be run like a business, by business, for business – setting up for future privatisation under Public Private Partnerships (PPPs).

    Have your rates gone down since the last council amalgamations? EVER?
    The $upercity legislation set up this corporate structure – it can and must be repealed.
    …………………

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

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  57. EAD (1,128 comments) says:

    Sometimes I wonder what the media’s agenda is with Russia. Frankly this whole Bear bating is absurd.

    1). The West rakes Russia over the coals over the issue of gay rights while cosying up to Islamic regimes that hang people for sodomy.

    2). The media hopes and pray for the Sochi games to be a disaster and pout when they are not.

    3). They organise a rent-a-mob to depose the elected president of Ukraine and replace him with a man of our choosing. Our Ukrainian friends appear to have shot at the protesters in order to dial up the temperature.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-05/behind-kiev-snipers-it-was-somebody-new-coaltion-stunning-new-leak-reveals-truth

    4) The media scream about Russian interference in a sovereign state (of which it is legally allowed to be in and has been part of Russia for most of the last 400 years) while ignoring the string of countries 1000’s of miles away that America has helped “bring democracy to”.

    5) The media will drum up support for Al-Qaeda in Syria and murderers in Ukraine just to have a go at Putin.

    The scary thing is, many people swallow this propaganda hook, line and sinker.

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  58. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    The Obama thing and the Ukraine is a sad indictment of allowing partisanship to become so all determining that it skews one’s thinking.

    The crisis in the Ukraine is not about Obama. It is about the right of the Ukraine to determine it’s own future, not be bullied into slavery to the Kremlin. I despise most of Obama’s policies as much as anyone, but that does not blind me to the very real threat of Putin’s fascist regime, both to Russia’s own people and it’s neighbors. A man who imprisons and poisons his political opponents is not an icon of conservatism.

    I would have opposed FDR’s policies totally, but I would not have allowed my opposition to him skew me to support Hitler, and make no mistake, and Godwin’s Law be dammed, Putin really is every bit as dangerous as Hitler, and for much the same reasons.

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  59. Andrei (2,664 comments) says:

    EAD – they hate Putin because he bought an end to the West’s plundering of Russia after the fall of communism

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  60. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    EAD
    Good points on the west and Russia.
    Heres Henry Kissinger giving his opinion.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/henry-kissinger-to-settle-the-ukraine-crisis-start-at-the-end/2014/03/05/46dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

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  61. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “The scary thing is, many people swallow this propaganda hook, line and sinker.”

    No, the scary thing is how many people swallow Russia’s propaganda, hook, line and sinker.

    Do you have any credible source for your claim that the more than one hundred thousand people who took to the streets in Kiev were a rent-a-mob?

    The very fact that you think that many people were just a few paid off posers is laughable. I mean seriously, how stupid and gullible can you get?

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  62. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “they hate Putin because he bought an end to the West’s plundering of Russia after the fall of communism”

    Ummm, no. There was has been no “plundering” except what is being done now by Putin and his cronies.

    We despise Putin because he’s a murdering fascist nutjob, who wants all “ethnic” Russians under one empire and one leader. He’s clearly read and digested Mein Kampf.

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  63. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Colin Craig is trying to play the Greens game.

    DONATE TO OUR LEGAL FUND TO DEFEND THE DEMAND FOR HONESTY FROM ALL POLITICIANS, TO ENSURE VOTERS ARE TREATED WITH THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE.

    Don’t allow the Greens to mislead the public by blatant dishonesty about anyone who disagrees with their very liberal views.

    It is not the first time I have taken legal action to correct blatant lies and I have been very successful in doing so. I believe we must stand up to all bullies or this very unacceptable situation will continue its rapid escalation.

    WE NEED TO RAISE $70 000.

    http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/honesty/

    Not sure how that will work, Norman was criticised by Green supporters for asking poorer members to support his ego, and Craig is probably richer than Norman. but he’s free to have a go.

    PS:

    You should know that any funds not used in the court case will go towards the Conservative Party’s work to create a true democracy where all points of view are respected and where honesty and integrity prevails in politics.

    He may have copied the Green words of pleading and modified slightly.

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  64. dirty harry (502 comments) says:

    Pity we cant get the rest to follow suit..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9800937/Father-drank-himself-to-death

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  65. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Colin Craig is trying to play the Greens game.

    I suspect P.G. has a secret crush on Colin. The Southerner feminist seems to love Craig to pieces.

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  66. Roflcopter (463 comments) says:

    Power prices have gone up AGAIN. Labour's NZPower will bring down the bills. pic.twitter.com/FcYTLfjp6o— David Cunliffe (@DavidCunliffeMP) March 6, 2014

    This has to be my big laugh today… look at what happened prior to Labour coming in in 1999, and the impact over their time in gov’t…. hilarious fail.

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  67. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    For those with short, or very convenient memory holes.

    “Scotland Yard has launched an investigation into an audacious attempt to murder – using a deadly poison – a leading Russian defector at a restaurant in London.

    Alexander Litvinenko, a former colonel in the Russian secret service and a fierce critic of President Vladimir Putin, was seriously ill under armed guard at a London hospital last night.

    Mr Litvinenko, 50, who used to work for the Federal Security Bureau (FSB, the former KGB), fell ill after meeting a contact at Itsu, a sushi restaurant in Piccadilly. The woman journalist claimed to have information on the murder of Anna Politkovskaya, 48, the outspoken journalist who was killed at her Moscow apartment last month.

    A close friend of Mr Litvinenko said last night: “Alexander has no doubt that he was poisoned at the instigation of the Russian government.” He has been living at a secret address in London with his wife and son because he feared he might be targeted by political opponents.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1534568/Leading-Russian-critic-of-Putins-regime-is-poisoned-in-London.html

    I guess Putin having his critics poisoned on UK soil is ok to some, if it’s in, you know, “Russian interests”.

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  68. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    I don’t think anyone is saying that Putin is a saint.

    But on this planet, when democratically elected leaders in strategically significant regions get overthrown by well-funded minority protesters, historically a good bet is that the US administration of the day has a hand in it.

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  69. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    Russian propaganda about the Ukraine exploded.

    ” Putin’s actions exposed him before the world at last for what he is: a reincarnation of Stalin, an old-school European megalomaniac bent on nothing save domination and oppression.

    Since then, Putin’s propaganda machine has been working overtime. Some truly ludicrous, neo-Soviet lies have been told with a straight face by the most loathsome of his minions, such as that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians had fled into Russia as refugees in terror of the new revolutionary government and that the United States was responsible for the revolution itself. Most of these lies have been immediately exposed and ridiculed, but some unfortunate mythology has still grown up around the unsettling recent events in Ukraine, and it’s important to dispel it.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/03/will_ukraine_send_the_world_into_war.html

    A good source of genuine Right wing thinking on Russia:

    http://dyingrussia.wordpress.com/

    And the embarrassing travesty of Sochi:

    “Russia’s Best Olympic Event: Downhill Anti-Americanism”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/02/russias_best_olympic_event_downhill_anti-americanism.html

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  70. iMP (2,387 comments) says:

    Roaring kick off to the election campaign last night with 600 students packed into Akl Uni to hear 7 pol.s in the opening election debate.

    Jamie Whyte ACT
    Colin CRiag Consv
    Winston Peters (didn’t show)
    Shane Jones Labour
    Jamie-Lee Ross Nats
    John Minto Mana
    Te Ururoa Flavell maori

    Hilarious that patrick Gower doesn’t know how to take a selfie on his smart phone. Seems to have given the night to Colin Craig. See here

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/AUDIO-Conservative-Leader-Colin-Craig-gets-rock-star-status-at-student-debate/tabid/506/articleID/41037/Default.aspx

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/WeekdayHosts/MarcusLush.aspx

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  71. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    That TV3 hack Gower is really ugly. A face only a mother can love. :-)

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  72. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    “But on this planet, when democratically elected leaders in strategically significant regions get overthrown by well-funded minority protesters, historically a good bet is that the US administration of the day has a hand in it.”

    They protesters represented most western Ukrainians. They were hardly a minority. The “democratic: elections in the Ukraine were riddled with fraud as were those in 2004 and there is good evidence the fraud was backed by the Kremlin.

    Claiming that if any government is overthrown the US is most likely behind it is not a credible argument.

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  73. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    I don’t think anyone is saying Hitler is a saint, but…..

    I don’t think anyone is saying Pol Pot is a saint, but….

    I don’t think anyone is saying Stalin is a saint, but….

    I don’t think anyone is saying Putin is a saint, but….

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  74. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    Spare us, Shawn.

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  75. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    Claiming that if any government is overthrown the US is most likely behind it is not a credible argument.

    You’re quite right about that.

    It’s practically racial profiling.

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  76. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Early days, but the fat lady leads: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/2016_hillary_clinton_47_jeb_bush_33

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  77. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Comparing the Green and Conservative legal find donation pages – very similar – Craig copies Green plea for donations.

    Sure to attract more attention for Craig.

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  78. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Can anyone inform us to whether aspiring weather soothsayer and shaman Ken Ring predicted the Christchurch floods.?
    If not, why not . ?After all it’s a major one in a hundred year event that should of come under Ken’s antenna and feelers.
    Manolo, can you confirm whether Alex Jones is the preferred Republican aspirant for 2016.?

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  79. Andrei (2,664 comments) says:

    Sure to attract more attention for Craig

    Only if you continue to give it to him with your link whoring Pete George.

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  80. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    An interesting development . Comments by the Estonian Foreign Minister that it was likely the Ukrainian opposition who had been doing the snipering from the roof tops in Kiev have been rejected by the Estonian Government .The Minister had apparently claimed his informant ,one Olga i,n Kiev made the claim. However it was never verified or authenticated in any way whatsoever. Any way Russian official news agencies seized on it and churned out a propaganda spiel on it which was naturally taken by an array of Left wing and conspiracy blogs in the West,

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/05/us-estonia-eu-ukraine-idUSBREA2423O20140305

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  81. Ross12 (1,432 comments) says:

    PG. It would seem Colin Craig is winning the fund raising “battle”

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/21864701/conservative-party-spoof-gets-overwhelming-response/

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  82. Andrei (2,664 comments) says:

    An interesting development . Comments by the Estonian Foreign Minister that it was likely the Ukrainian opposition who had been doing the snipering from the roof tops in Kiev have been rejected by the Estonian Government

    Quelle surprise politicians spinning rejecting inconvenient facts that counter the narrative that suits their agenda.

    What is the world coming to?

    Of course those whose ability for rational thought has not been hopelessly compromised understood all along that it was not the Government behind the sniper attacks for the simple reason that an agreement that would save their bacon, at least temporarily had just been signed and such an attack would totally undermine that agreement – which it did of course.

    Still you go on trawling the internet for anything to bolster your views to rationalize the thoughts of your closed mind. It wont change the facts on the ground or the reality of life in Ukraine as it descends into civil war

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  83. DJP6-25 (1,388 comments) says:

    kowtow 9.19 am. He should have dressed up as an NKVD Commisar. That wouldn’t have caused any problems.

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  84. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Speaking of Putin. Check this out.
    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/03/07/just-a-tourist-who-happened-to-wander-by/

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  85. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Andre, I reserve the right to ” trawl” wherever I like to present the situation in the Ukraine as I and others do see it. Your free to do likewise.
    Closed mind.?? Is there anything wrong in taking a skeptical view and critical scrutiny especially those official Government agencies like RT and RIA Novosti news.?

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  86. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Ross12
    I suspect one of the drivers for Craigs fundraising success is the old “enemy of my enemy” thing. Personally I wont vote for Craig but am delighted to see him stick it to Norman.

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  87. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Craig has little to lose and everything to gain.
    Norman has little to gain and much to lose.

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  88. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    All on Red.

    Yes Vladimir certainly looks the part and doing his job – blending in with the crowd

    Meanwhile Russian TV accused of using an actress in five different roles in Odessa,

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574131/How-Russian-television-used-actress-pretend-five-different-people-opposed-revolution-reported-normal-Ukrainians-backed-Kremlin.html

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  89. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    Here’s what’s been said at The Standard over Craig/Norman:

    “…..So why then would Russle make such appalling allegations against him?

    They’re nothing more than outdated, outragous and demeaning slogans.

    I shudder to think what women and gay men thought when hearing those disgusting statements from someone who says ‘I and the Greens represent them.’

    Mr Craig is not on the record anywhere for saying that rubbish – but Russel Norman is.

    Mr Cunliffe would never use the word N***** if Maori’s were the topic of discussion and he wanted to infer something negative!

    Why excuse Russle Norman’s lack of judgement – or are gay men and women less in standing around here than say – Maori?

    Like I said : Mr Craig I think, is going to have the last laugh with Russel……………”

    “…….Of course he would sue him – and gay men and women of dignity would support that!

    Read what I said above.

    ‘standards’ of behaviour at the ‘Standard’ seem to be rather lax it appears…………..”

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  90. Grant (444 comments) says:

    Sorry. Can’t help myself….

    Found this comment from Cunliffe’s lawyer at the standard:

    “Wow a Conservative Party troll who cannot spell sensible …
    How sensible is it to blow $140k in legal fees just so Craig can say “told you so”?

    How sensible would you have to be to blow any legal fees on advice that drops you in so much shit? Or did Cunliffe get his trust set up done “pro bono”?
    G

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  91. Andrei (2,664 comments) says:

    Meanwhile Russian TV accused of using an actress in five different roles in Odessa,

    Lol – you’e getting really desperate there, did you read the comments on that story, no? Well the commenters aren’t buying it either. Just another piece of empty noise

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  92. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    Grant#

    ‘…How sensible would you have to be to blow any legal fees on advice that drops you in so much shit? Or did Cunliffe get his trust set up done “pro bono”?
    G……….”

    They’ve taken your reply down.

    Fuck…… it was me that made that spelling mistake. :cool:

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  93. Grant (444 comments) says:

    Hi Harriet

    I didn’t bother posting a reply there. Would be a waste of electrons, plus, the idea of Mrs Prentice having my IP address doesn’t appeal.

    G

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  94. Roflcopter (463 comments) says:

    Roy Morgan out, and Greens down again…. stupid people finally starting to see thru Noddy Norman & Taniwha Turei.

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  95. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    A memo to the thick truck driver who calls himself a primitive King: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/harrymount/100073668/memo-to-king-of-the-maoris-if-you-want-to-look-grand-act-humble/

    If you do deign to meet Prince William, you could learn a thing or two about the public appearance of humility.

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  96. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    grant and clever lawyers

    Cunners probably got his advice ,not ‘pro bono” but “from Bozo!”

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  97. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    dpj6 26

    Yep it’s strange how some oppressive genocidal regimes are “kosher” and others are haram.

    As I said it’s a mad mad world.

    http://www.thelocal.de/20140304/german-headteacher-in-trouble-for-shouting-nazi-greeting-sieg-heil-in-front-of-pupils

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  98. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    being Maori king is a bit like being lord mayor of Nottingham, only your subjects have fewer tattoos.

    :lol:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/mar/05/new-zealand-maori-king-tuheitia-british-royals

    Looks like kowtowing respect for His Majesty Potato VII, King of Brown Motherfuckers, is not universal…

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  99. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “Building 7 harboured a great deal of valuable information that had to “go”. For example, all the Enron records.”

    That was the third building many denied existed but went down when only two planes hit.

    Two planes – three buildings

    All on you tube. REcordings of unidentified voices discussing building 7 and giving the order to ‘pull it’

    which is profesional language for leveling the building.

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  100. srylands (410 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9803331/Dog-maul-victims-bite-wounds-horrific

    What do we do with these dog owners?

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  101. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    State servant political register ‘not appropriate’

    State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie has voiced concerns about a possible “register of political affiliations for state servants”.

    Rennie’s comments follow a select committee hearing yesterday where TVNZ bosses said they might consider requiring staff to formally declare any political allegiances or political party membership, subject to the findings of TVNZ’s current inquiry.

    “It would not be appropriate for any organisation in the State Services to monitor or keep a register of their staff’s political views or affiliations,” Rennie said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9803332/State-servant-political-register-not-appropriate

    In a free society it certainly would not be appropriate to register political allegiance. So why is the govt trying to push compulsory political allegiance?

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  102. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    kowtow, my friend received an email from an ozzie mate and it appears to be kosher there to abuse and denigrate anyone who is Muslim or who even looks even remotely Muslim. This regardless whether they happen to be moderate or of say Hindu or even of Christian persuasion. They all get caught up in the vitriol hurled around..
    You see its all to do with appearances the colour of their skin and style of dress etc .All very kosher to you.?

    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/491215/20130717/racism-check-india-australia-attack-abuse-sikh.htm

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  103. srylands (410 comments) says:

    “All on you tube. REcordings of unidentified voices… ”

    uh huh. Yep I’m convinced.

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  104. srylands (410 comments) says:

    “What do we do with these dog owners?”

    I will answer my own question. I am not a lock them up and throw away the key guy. But the penalties for owning a dog that maims or kills are inadequate. The penalty in these cases should be a long prison term.

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  105. Gulag1917 (930 comments) says:

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  106. ciaron (1,434 comments) says:

    EAD,
    I have worked alongside a number of civil engineers in one-off projects and if you discuss 9/11 with these professional engineers and architects, they will tell you modern skyscrapers don’t just collapse on their own footprints after pathetic little fires.

    I think the problem here is you are speaking with civil engineers and architects. You really need to be talking to structural engineers. I work with 70+ structural engineers every day and I have not heard one of them confess a mode of failure other than severed columns and yielding due to loss of strength in the resulting fire. People seem to either forget or not understand that you only have to get structural steel past 250 degrees before it begins losing stiffness and starts to bend. So, what you have is an eccentric load path, with sections cantilevering and the remaining columns buckling under p-delta effects and heat related strength degradation… Not simply a wimpy fire.

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  107. corrigenda (142 comments) says:

    gump (1,207 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:37 am

    I’m a bit hazy on the dates, but up until the 1970s margarine could only be sold in New Zealand in plain packaging and without yellow food colouring. I am also fairly sure that a doctor’s prescription was required to purchase it.

    Dead right there gump. It was only available at the chemist shops, none in groceries.

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  108. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “you only have to get structural steel past 250 degrees before it begins losing stiffness and starts to bend. ”

    Apparently jet fuel can’t burn to that heat

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  109. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    ““All on you tube. REcordings of unidentified voices… ”

    uh huh. Yep I’m convinced.”

    Yet the buildings fell when the voices gave the order.

    and you probably deny the existence of building 7 which fell without being rammed.

    Two planes three buildings 9/11

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  110. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “This has to be my big laugh today… look at what happened prior to Labour coming in in 1999, and the impact over their time in gov’t…. hilarious fail.”

    Yet is was Nationals Max Bradford who privatised power companies then joined one to reap profits from millions.
    Pffff

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  111. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    1). The West rakes Russia over the coals over the issue of gay rights while cosying up to Islamic regimes that hang people for sodomy.

    This gets said often enough that sometimes I don’t think people believe it is true. Yet, just a few days ago, Iran hung two men for the “perversion” of being gay.

    Iran executed two gay men on Sunday for the crime of “perversion” and has sentenced a third individual to death for “insulting the prophet,” according to human rights activists tracking the situation.

    The head of Iran’s judiciary department in the northern city of Rasht announced on Sunday that two homosexual men had been executed for “perversion,” which is considered a severe crime under Iran’s hardline Islamic law.

    The executions come less than two months after Iranian authorities publicly hanged 40 individuals in a two-week period. Iran is executing at least two people a day, according to activists.

    http://freebeacon.com/iran-executes-two-for-perversion/

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  112. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    “Apparently jet fuel can’t burn to that heat”

    Specious argument. The whole plane was burning, not just the fuel.

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  113. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

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  114. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    ….”“Apparently jet fuel can’t burn to that heat””….

    From a Wikipedia article on jet fuel…..

    ….”Open air burning temperatures 260–315 °C (500–599 °F)”….

    Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

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  115. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    Ira Glass on being creative, inspiration, and not quitting when your stuff is not as good as you think it should be.

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  116. itstricky (1,851 comments) says:

    Never ending Stone Age imbecility: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9800233/Taonga-can-t-be-stored-near-sewage-pipes

    Storage problems at Napier’s new museum have run up against another hurdle – sewage pipes that make it culturally unacceptable for storing taonga.

    Imbecility? Really? I mean personally I wouldn’t really want my shit stored under shit, so to speak. I bet if they stored their shit under shit and the shit pipe broke causing them to, well, be in the shit, you’d be calling them imbeciles as well. I call your bluff, I think you’re a one trick pony.

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  117. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    Fletch

    I really am perplexed about how the MSM and so many pollies and bureaucrats get their knickers in a twist over Russia and Uganda for example (who haven’t legislatively stretched necks)and yet the Islamic Republic of Iranishitistan gets to hang homos with barely a ho hum from the same said affronted defenders of “universal” human rights.

    Here we have Sweden reaching out a hand to Iran where it respects their history ,culture and traditions and at the same time withdrawing the other hand from the Ugandans. Perhaps Uganda should develop the bomb and the Swedes can lick black arse for a change instead of murderous Shia arse.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-announces-aid-cuts-over-uganda-antigay-bill-9173189.html

    http://www.rferl.org/content/iran-nuclear-bildt-visit/25251414.html

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  118. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Wiki – if you scour the available photos of the collapses of WTC 1 and 2, you will see falling sections of steel frame damn near as big as wtc7 in their own right.

    The whole area was peppered with bits of solid steel debris bigger than your house. If there’s a mystery here, it’s why DIDN’T more buildings collapse, not why did 7 collapse.

    And of course no one had heard of wtc7 before 9/11, it was an average office building in an extraordinary city.

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  119. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business

    …and building 7 south side was severely damaged by falling debris from the the collapsing Northern Tower .
    The FDNY could not control the raging fires inside due to low water pressure.
    Even at 2.00pm the FDNY Fire chiefs thought it was in danger collapsing.
    Absolutely no one in the vicinity heard noises or explosions consistent with controlled demolition
    Also it did not collapse on its own print damaging surrounding buildings like the Verizon Tower.

    http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_damage.html

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  120. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “Absolutely no one in the vicinity heard noises or explosions consistent with controlled demolition”

    so why weren’t first responders allowed to the ten year commemoration in New York.

    And why was the BBC sued for announcing a report the second tower fell when it hadn’t. In factt he tower was still standing when the announcement was made.

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  121. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “And of course no one had heard of wtc7 before 9/11, it was an average office building in an extraordinary city.”

    Filled with extraordinary documents which don’t exist any more

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  122. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    ““Apparently jet fuel can’t burn to that heat”

    Specious argument. The whole plane was burning, not just the fuel.”

    Specious argument. A whole plane could not destroy and auto collapse a building that big. Definitely not two

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  123. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    Filled with extraordinary documents which don’t exist any more

    How do you know that?

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  124. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    First responders ( I take that to mean Fire crews etc ) not allowed to the 10th Anniversary .??
    Links and sources please.
    The BBC sued .?? The BBC newscaster made an ordinary mistake . Many, many rumours and news updates etc were doing the rounds at the time. A rumour ,as it turned out ,was simply an error .

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  125. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I work with 70+ structural engineers every day and I have not heard one of them confess a mode of failure other than severed columns and yielding due to loss of strength in the resulting fire.

    A much simpler argument is that the energy signature of the collapse of the twin towers can’t be accounted for in terms of the energy sources acknowledged by the mainstream accounts, i.e energy from the gravitational potential energy of the towers pre collapse, kinetic energy from the planes and chemical energy from the fuel which ignited within the towers.

    The two major energy sinks are the energy required to produce the all the fine particulate matter and the energy required to produce the reported rivers of molten metal, i.e. the energy that kept the site hot for weeks afterward.

    http://georgewashington.blogspot.co.nz/2006/11/collapse-of-twin-towers-couldnt-have.html

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  126. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, the collapse of the Towers can be explained in terms of Kinetic energy and its transfer as Flights 11 and 175 respectively hit the twin towers.
    Two jet airliners nearly fully fuel laden panes hitting at full velocity +
    Energy rereleased from impacts including explosive forces seriously weaken the structural integrity of the Towers.

    All here From MIT Dept of Engineering,

    http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf

    Here also,

    http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

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  127. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    No-one’s ever demolished a building that size. There is no experimental data to enable the sort of calculations necessary for statements of the form “it couldn’t have happened… there isn’t enough kinetic energy…”

    All the products of fertile imaginations on the internet.

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  128. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    It’s only a short step from anti-Americanism to anti-Semitism.

    Thus conspiracy theories about one become about both.

    And they converge in the hands of the Christian European race right when Semites are linked to the Frankfurt school secular left, and thus some look to a Christian power in Europe to ally to as their champion of western Christendom (with the EU even more secular than the White House rule of the USA they look to the East of Europe to find their Christian champion in the Rus, Putin).

    Typical of some demi-gods Putin declares himself the champion of Semites and accuses the Ukrainian nationalists of being a threat to the Semites (that Putin would protect?). Is Putin claiming that Russians in Crimea are Semites under his protection?

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  129. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    stephieboy, your report fails to mention the energy required to produce the rivers of molten metal observed at the site.

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  130. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    UT

    What’s your best guess as to a heat source that would produce “rivers of molten metal”?

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  131. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    No-one’s ever demolished a building that size.

    Apart from the towers themselves, of course. WTC7 also had the unexplained debris heat, not just the twin towers.

    There is no experimental data to enable the sort of calculations necessary for statements of the form “it couldn’t have happened… there isn’t enough kinetic energy…”

    Poppycock. The is plenty of solid science behind specific heat and gravitational potential energy. The energy science for the dust cloud gets more complex, but that part of argument isn’t important if the GPE + other energy sources can’t account for the debris heat.

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  132. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    UT

    Jet fuel is basically kerosene & is closer in composition & behaviour to diesel than petrol. In other words you are not going to get a huge explosion as if an equivalent amount of, say white spirit went up.

    As it burns rather than explodes this takes longer & brings into play another factor which causes firestorms. As the fire builds up heat it will suck oxygen laden air up liftwells & service conduits with incredible force causing a “blowtorch effect”.

    If there were rivers of steel then that will be your heat source.

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  133. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Nasska, best guess is nanothermite for cutter charges & one or more micronukes to melt the central steel structure.
    Unexploded thermite was found amongst the debris and the burns suffered by Felipe David in the basement are like the radiation burns suffered by workers at Chernobyl.

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  134. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    srylands – “What do we do with these dog owners?”

    Before that, you ban the dangerous breeds. And you, at least, neuter those dog breeds that are already not allowed to be imported, to stop the problems being grown locally.

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  135. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    “Aren’t these water purification tablets wonderful?” said my mate.

    “Only two of them are needed to make a pint of Lion Red drinkable.”

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  136. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    On 911 it’s not just the collapse of the buildings it’s the Pentagram and the Pennsylvania crash as well. All the incidents have massive holes in them you can drive a Mack truck through.

    People who’ve already made up their mind it can’t be true love “debunker” sites because it suits them and prevents their cognitive dissonance from rearing its ugly head inside their tummies. 911 is the ultimate world-as-we-know-it destroyer and those people would prefer living in their little fantasy bubble just like those who would always take the blue pill and never the red.

    The issue with the “debunker” sites is that they skip over the actual arguments but you wouldn’t know that unless you’d actually read the actual arguments. But people who love those sites never have read the actual arguments, instead they’ve only ever read the parts of the “debunker” sites where it says “conspiracy THEORISTS [who are mental and cannot be believed under any circumstance] say “x.” Well duh, actually the answer is…”

    And they call themselves informed.

    Which is about the same thing as listening to the US govt explaining how the JFK assassination occurred because LHO acted alone.

    People who hold their hands over their ears and shout lalalalalalala enough really want to believe that about JFK, just like they really want to believe the “debunker” sites on 911.

    These are the same people who used to vehemently say there were WMDs in Iraq. And they will act very very surprised when the hammer finally falls on the US economy, when the false flag happens in the US and it declares martial law, etc etc etc.

    To those above who are attempting it, I concluded a long time ago there’s no point debating with people who aren’t open to the truth. They just can’t handle it. If they were they would have bothered to familiarise themselves with it a long time ago, because it’s all out there and has been for well over a decade. But they’re not interested. Like I said, they just can’t handle it.

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  137. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    nasska, there was once a choice of beer by colour brand, red or brown. With feminism (and the requirement of foreplay) and the end of sewage into the waterways we collected our drinking water from – we developed a greater tolerance for the monthly red over the daily sewage.

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  138. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Reid, the reluctance of some to consider the possibility of some conspiracy theories being true is matched by others with a predisposition to believing in them a little too readily.

    The CT sites say it was not x, as you were told, it was y – coz it was not x.

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  139. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    The issue of molten steel is actually a big non event and as NIST observed and analyzed irrelevant to explaining how the twin towers collapsed .
    Certainly there is no evidence of any molten steel at all at ground zero as the photos clearly show . What they actually show is Fire and demolition crews using gas cutting equipment and torches
    I’d like someone to produce photos etc that show otherwise.

    https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/canofficefirescauselargesteelcolumnsandb

    BTW it might help to establish where the 200 passenger and crews went

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  140. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ8so-ld-l0

    “Being must be felt. It can’t be thought.” – Eckhart Tolle

    “The past has no power over the present moment.” – Eckhart Tolle

    “Give up defining yourself — to yourself or to others. You won’t die. You will come to life. And don’t be concerned with how others define you. When they define you, they are limiting themselves, so it’s their problem. Whenever you interact with people, don’t be there primarily as a function or a role, but as the field of conscious Presence. You can only lose something that you have, but you cannot lose something that you are. – Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life’s Purpose

    “Life will give you whatever experience is most helpful for the evolution of your consciousness. How do you know this is the experience you need? Because this is the experience you are having at the moment.” – Eckhart Tolle

    “Whatever the present moment contains, accept it as if you had chosen it.” – Eckhart Tolle

    “Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have. Make the NOW the primary focus of your life.” – Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment

    “The primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but thought about it. Be aware of the thoughts you are thinking. Separate them from the situation, which is always neutral. It is as it is.” – Eckhart Tolle

    “As soon as you honor the present moment, all unhappiness and struggle dissolve, and life begins to flow with joy and ease. When you act out the present-moment awareness, whatever you do becomes imbued with a sense of quality, care, and love – even the most simple action.” – Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment

    “Nothing ever happened in the past that can prevent you from being present now, and if the past can’t prevent you from being present now, what power does it have?” – Eckhart Tolle

    “In today’s rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being.” – Eckhart Tolle

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  141. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Certainly there is no evidence of any molten steel at all at ground zero as the photos clearly show .

    Witnesses reported molten steel:

    I’d like someone to produce photos erc that show otherwise.

    Try “Thermal Hot Spots”, the IR photos:

    http://georgewashington.blogspot.co.nz/2006/11/collapse-of-twin-towers-couldnt-have.html

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  142. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Shit….you’re a right miserable prophet of doom tonight Reid.

    You’ve convinced me that the end of the world is almost upon us. Accordingly I’ve decided to work my way through a list of all the taboo things I never dared to do in life.

    So here I am, with a syringe full of heroin, wearing my wife’s underwear & about to fuck a sheep.

    And as soon as I’m done, I’ll get started on that list. :)

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  143. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth,
    Micro Nukes.???
    Felipe David suffering radiation burns,??
    You’ve got to be joking.
    Expand on that one if you will.
    What else.?
    Particle beam weapons, holograms, Drones etc etc.?
    Take your pick.

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  144. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    matched by others with a predisposition to believing in them a little too readily.

    You’ve made that allegation about me quite a few times SPC yet you’ve never met me, you have no idea what I believe, you have no idea why I believe it, and I cannot possibly share even a small fraction of that over a blog site or even in a full day’s face-to-face discussion with you.

    So forgive me for dismissing your diagnosis of me with respect to possessing that propensity.

    I think one thing many blue-pill partakers fail to appreciate is that none of we who chose the red pill regard the world thus revealed as in any way pleasant or desirable. But rather than continue to operate in a fools paradise we’d rather be informed of the true ugliness and when we are so informed, many of us feel a duty to tell others about it. The proliferation of this material is growing all the time as more and more see the coherence and the machinations behind the current events, which all tie together. Ukraine is not what it seems and the way to know that is to know the same material that gives you the 911 story. EAD posted a video at 10.54 which is another dimension of the same illusion, and the blue-pillers didn’t like it and marked it down, even though anyone with eyes can see every single point made in that video is actual reality in US politics.

    That’s what red-pill partakers see all the time, which completely pass you others by, and of course, it looks like pure fantasy if you start with something like 911 which is like advanced physics in red pill-blue pill terms, but have a look at that video and see if you can’t see that what the Judge says isn’t what happens. And recognise that’s part of the same world that begat 911, Iraq WMDs, Syria, Ukraine, Venezuela, the pending nuclear detonation in Chicago, EU immigration policy, the UN, climate change, etc, etc, etc.

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  145. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    So…..

    What about those Chem trails then?

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  146. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    and BTW….David Bain is guilty.

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  147. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    That should keep the conspiracy theory nutters busy for a couple of days. :)

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  148. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Micro Nukes.???

    Explains the energy source necessary to remove the structural support of the central steel cores and the reports of rivers of molten steel, explains the reports of explosions in the basement, and explains the burns suffered by Felipe David. Micro nukes were also used in the Bali Bombing – some of the victims suffered flash burns and the explosion blew the concrete off its reinforcing over fifty feet away.

    Felipe David suffering radiation burns,??

    As reported by William Rodriguez, who who hailed as a hero for rescuing people from the towers:

    “We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture,” Rodriguez said. “And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off.”

    According to David:

    “That day I was in the basement in sub-level 1 sometime after 8:30am. Everything happened so fast, everything moved so fast. The building started shaking after I heard the explosion below, dust was flying everywhere and all of a sudden it got real hot. I threw myself onto the floor, covered my face because I felt like I was burned. I sat there for a couple of seconds on the floor and felt like I was going to die, saying to myself ‘God, please give me strength.'”

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  149. Steve (North Shore) (4,564 comments) says:

    Plug,
    Pasifika Festival tomorrow and Sunday. I am not a coconut, I am Palangi; and yep I am going there.
    Food is awesome, so is the walk around the lake

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  150. SPC (5,643 comments) says:

    Reid, it is not all about you.

    Some are slow to take CT seriously, as you claim. And some are too readily willing to give credence to them as I claim. However you cannot concede this and rather than do so you infer it is a comment about you yourself. And then get passive aggressive.

    My comment was not about you but the issue you raise and an observation on it.

    “made that allegation about me quite a few times SPC yet you’ve never met me”

    I have made the observation before, but that does not mean that the observation is about you.

    I certainly do not take your observation about those slow to take CT seriously personally (after all I might take some CT quite seriously – such as how adventist religion and morality campaigns are used as a tool to control voting populations).

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  151. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth ,your wrong again. The hot spots shown certainly do not demonstrate the presence of molten steel but molten metal yes. This is a crucial point lost on 9/11 Truthers and your self.
    There is absolutely not a skerrick of evidence that those hot spots are evidence of molten steel,

    http://911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html

    William Rodriguez has certainly a rather checkered career as a 9/11 Truth eyewitness and certainly the description you give is not evidence of radiation burns. Certainly burns from the heat and debris generated by the collapse.
    Did David Fellipe suffer other side effects like radiation sickness , long term effects like cancer ,?

    The many false and contradictory claims of William Rodriguez,

    https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/home

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  152. Left Right and Centre (2,986 comments) says:

    So here I am, with a syringe full of heroin, wearing my wife’s underwear & about to fuck a sheep.

    Whatever – that’s what you call ‘Friday night’. :)

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  153. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Casual Friday LR&C. :)

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  154. Left Right and Centre (2,986 comments) says:

    OH MY FUCKING GOD !!!!!!!!!

    The Graham Norton Show isn’t sponsored by anything or anyone in the opening sequence.

    No hotel room smash up level anger to vent or remote control management required.

    No fuckwit little advertisement that is in fact cutting into the actual content of the programme.

    Am I awake ?

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  155. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    “…….Accordingly I’ve decided to work my way through a list of all the taboo things I never dared to do in life…..”

    I suppose praying is next up then on that list of yours Nasska? :cool:

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  156. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Reid (15,068 comments) says:
    March 7th, 2014 at 8:28 pm
    …, the pending nuclear detonation in Chicago,…

    Sounds interesting
    Any hints as to the time frame?

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  157. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth ,your wrong again.

    No I’m not, you are changing the goalposts from “show evidence of molten steel” to “demonstrate the presence of molten steel”. Evidence is not proof, evidence is a set of facts which support a proposition.

    The hot spots shown certainly do not demonstrate the presence of molten steel but molten metal yes. This is a crucial point lost on 9/11 Truthers and your self.

    It isn’t a crucial point because my argument hinges on the energy required to heat this material, ie the energy that your MIT report failed to mention.

    There is absolutely not a skerrick of evidence that those hot spots are evidence of molten steel,

    Except for the fact that the hot spots existed, which was all that the data could show. IR photographs are not much help in making a metallurgical analysis, all they show is the surface temperature.

    William Rodriguez has certainly a rather checkered career as a 9/11 Truth eyewitness and certainly the description you give is not evidence of radiation burns.

    It is evidence of radiation burns because the description of skin coming off in ribbons matches the description of radiation burns suffered by workers at Chernobyl.

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