Why did Labour not declare Liu’s donation?

June 16th, 2014 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

A wealthy Auckland businessman, whose links to the National Party led to a minister’s resignation, also made a secret $15,000 donation to the Party – and hosted a Cabinet minister at a lavish dinner in China.

The Labour Party has previously accused the Government of “cash for access” deals with , who received citizenship after lobbying from National minister Maurice Williamson and whose hotel was later opened by Prime Minister John Key.

But the Herald can reveal Liu, 53, also paid $15,000 at a Labour Party auction in 2007 for a book signed by Helen Clark, the Prime Minister at the time, according to a party source.

The source said Liu also hosted Rick Barker, the then Internal Affairs Minister, at a dinner in his hometown of Chongqing.

Mr Barker, who is now a regional councillor in Hawkes Bay, confirmed he was a guest at the dinner and also visited Liu’s cement company while on holiday in China.

But he said he was not aware Liu was a Labour donor and he was not in China on official business as a minister.

“I went to China to catch up with some friends of mine, see some sights … and I made a side trip to Chongqing – I had not been to the city before.

“I was in the city a short time. Mr Liu showed me his business and that night, I attended a dinner which seemed to be a dinner he had put on for all his staff.”

However, Mr Barker could not remember how he came to be invited to visit Liu in Chongqing.

He said it was “probable” he also had dinner with Liu in New Zealand.

“I am trying to recall events of over seven years ago, so it’s a little challenging. But it can’t have been a regular event, because if it was I would recall that. In fact my contact with Liu fell away quite quickly.”

made at fundraising auctions or dinners are not recorded individually, but the total amount raised is declared.

That statement is not correct.

If a donation at an auction or dinner is larger than the disclosure threshold it must be declared with the identity of the individual who made it.

The disclosure limit in 2007 was $10,000. Liu donated $15,000 to Labour. The party should have declared him as a donor.

Also the article says the total amount raised at the dinner was declared? Where? In Labour’s 2007 return the only donors listed are:

  • MPs
  • three law firms on behalf of anonymous donors
  • four corporates
  • Chhour Lim Nam for $25,000
  • Steven Wong for $19,000

So was the $15,000 part of the last two?

National declared its donation from Donghua Liu, which is the correct thing to do. The transparency of revealing significant donors allows the scrutiny which has occurred. However once again Labour is exposed as concealing the names of its donors.

Why did they not disclose Liu as a donor in 2007? The threshold was $10,000.

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95 Responses to “Why did Labour not declare Liu’s donation?”

  1. davidp (3,587 comments) says:

    >Why did they not disclose Liu as a donor in 2007?

    I don’t know. But if Banks was tried in court for this, it would only be fair for anyone involved in the Labour Party to also face charges.

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  2. prosper (172 comments) says:

    Is this the same or similar to the Banks case?

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  3. Brian Smaller (4,024 comments) says:

    David, your naivety astounds me. It is not corrupt if Labour do it.

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  4. markm (114 comments) says:

    Labour are calling for the police to take action over electoral fraud.
    The police have no option but to take action , if someone makes a formal complaint.
    Please some one make a formal complaint and if the police don’t act then Mr Macready can take a private prosecution.

    Funny how Barker can’t recall how much contact he had with Mr Liu but he has no trouble recalling his contact “falling away”

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  5. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    Labour only wrote the law, it wasn’t for them to follow….

    It’s different when Labour do it !

    The UN need to be aware of this !!!!!!!!!!

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  6. alloytoo (571 comments) says:

    I think we should take up a collection (declared of course) to enable a private prosecution. (No doubt David Cunliffe will chip in given his public desire for transparency.)

    If this collection goes well we’ll be taking another once Kim leaves for his sabbatical in the States.

    Should pick up the Mana party at a discount.

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  7. NK (1,256 comments) says:

    “I went to China to catch up with some friends of mine, see some sights … and I made a side trip to Chongqing – I had not been to the city before.

    “I was in the city a short time. Mr Liu showed me his business and that night, I attended a dinner which seemed to be a dinner he had put on for all his staff.”

    However, Mr Barker could not remember how he came to be invited to visit Liu in Chongqing.

    Yeah, because every tourist who visits China is just busting to get to Chongqing. It’s such an amazing city with all these things to do.

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  8. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  9. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    It’s news Judith, because Labour MP after Labour MP has ripped into the Government over the Donghua Liu/Maurice Williamson affair. Trevor Mallard accused Liu of offering money to a Government Minister. Grant Robertson has ranted about “cronyism” involving Liu. David Cunliffe himself has accused the Government of being conflicted where Liu is concerned.

    Now we learn that Labour received a significant donation from Liu (fifteen grand may be a trifling sum to you, but for most of us it’s a lot of money), and that the Minister in charge of the citizenship process had a private dinner with the man in China. You may not want to hear a bad word about Labour, but I have one for you; hypocrisy.

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  10. Pdubyah (22 comments) says:

    “15,000 at a Labour Party auction in 2007 for a book signed by Helen Clark”

    was he offered a choice of a signed painting instead ?

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  11. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock

    Stop that – it’s different when Labour do it !

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  12. NK (1,256 comments) says:

    KS – I have a better word: CORRUPTION!

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  13. BeaB (2,144 comments) says:

    He was clearly invited to Chonqing as the guest of Liu and hosted, wined and dined by him. Anyone who has been to China can see exactly how this would happen and Barker is being at the best forgetful. Hr would have been treated like a lord and given some very expensive gifts. Were they declared?
    Labour are such liars and it is just a shame that 1 John Key doesn’t fight dirty, 2 there isn’t a special dirt-digging unit in National and 5 the media favour the Left.
    Unlike Judith, I don’t think our politicians are corrupt. I think most of them are public-spirited, hardworking members. But I see more nastiness on the Left.
    And there’s an old adage about people who live in glass houses.

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  14. anonymouse (721 comments) says:

    @NK you have got to love Wiki’s description of the place

    “In the first decade of the 21st century, the city became notorious for organised crime and corruption. Gangsters oversaw businesses involving billions of yuan and the corruption reached into the law-enforcement and justice systems.”

    its the city/agglommeration Bo Xilai came from…

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  15. RRM (10,009 comments) says:

    You can’t trust Labour, they’re just the big businessman’s party! :-)

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  16. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  17. Simon (760 comments) says:

    Clearly this is all George Bush’s fault time to move on.

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  18. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    It’s hypocrisy Judith when you berate someone for doing something that you yourself did.

    And what’s behind your pathological hatred of John Key?

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  19. Mark1 (91 comments) says:

    “15,000 at a Labour Party auction in 2007 for a book signed by Helen Clark”
    was he offered a choice of a signed painting instead ?

    Any book signed by Helen Clark is bound to be good. Tui billboard

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  20. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  21. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock (9,978 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 9:46 am
    It’s hypocrisy Judith when you berate someone for doing something that you yourself did.

    Then going from this interpretation, DPF would be a hypocrite if he failed to post about the same, or similar things done by National?

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  22. radvad (772 comments) says:

    Hahahaha…..this is so delicious on so many levels.

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  23. Elaycee (4,404 comments) says:

    …Liu, 53, also paid $15,000 at a Labour Party auction in 2007 for a book signed by Helen Clark, the Prime Minister at the time….

    I’m surprised someone didn’t twig at the time the poor bloke may not be in complete control of his faculties.

    Besides, had he waited a year, the book would have been in the bargain bin at Whitcoulls and the ‘signature’ could have been added by the helpful young lass behind the counter…. given her track record with autographs, it wouldn’t bother Helen.

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  24. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    Judith

    You seem to have missed some critical information. National declared their donation from this guy… Labour were in government and complaining about large donations needing to be declared…..

    Rather than ‘It’s different when Labour do it’ the new Judith saying is … Anything is OK unless it’s John Key doing it !

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  25. James Stephenson (2,223 comments) says:

    Banksie’s got some time on his hands, wonder if he’d like to take out a private prosecution?

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  26. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    hypocrisy
    hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/Submit
    noun
    the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

    There you go Judith, since you seem to not understand the word.

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  27. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ burt (7,493 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:15 am

    They are all doing it burt. Every single one of our parties has demonstrated at various levels that they are corrupt.
    It’s not different for any of them – they are all as bad as each other, and none of them have the right to feign offence when they are accused, as they have all also been the accusers.

    If you can’t see that, then it simply demonstrates how one-eyed and biased you have become.

    They are all a shocking example and none of them worthy of being role models to our young. Why the hell should the community not practice corruption, when our nations leaders are all trying to out do each other ‘ in the name of politics’?

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  28. rangitoto (248 comments) says:

    Can this still be prosecuted? It might be too late for a complaint to be made. Liarbore might be saved by the clock.

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  29. davidp (3,587 comments) says:

    Wasn’t Grant Robertson a senior prime ministerial staffer at the time? Presumably the PM’s office knew that they’d accepted donations from Liu, and that Barker had travelled to China to meet with Liu and support his business. So presumably Robertson will now apologise to Collins. To help him out, I have drafted a text for the apology that he can use…

    “I’d like to apologise to Judith Collins for stalking her for months over an innocent meal she had with a NZ exporter. At the time I knew that Helen Clark’s government had taken secret donations from a Chinese businessman that we had failed to declare. I was a part of that government. So was David Cunliffe. Not declaring the donation was illegal and after long reflection I now feel ashamed for my involvement in this illegality. I also knew that a Labour minister had travelled to China and helped promote the donor’s company. I went overboard in my obsessive pursuit of Judith Collins and ignored the obvious hypocrisy, and realise now that I look like a hypocritical creepy stalker without any ethical standards at all. Sorry Judith. However words are cheap and I don’t expect either Judith or the NZ public to forgive me. Therefore I have handed my resignation to the Speaker and will not be standing for re-election.”

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  30. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ RightNow (6,540 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Exactly – and that is exactly what National were doing when Shearer stuffed up, when Winston stuffed up and so on.

    As I said, they have all feigned offence, they have all accused, they have all pushed the boundaries and rules and crossed the line – NONE of them can be accused of being hypocrites, because they have all been in both positions.

    And you lot are being hypocrites now – by trying to make out that your team has NEVER claimed to have higher standards, when its been proved they haven’t.

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  31. hj (7,063 comments) says:

    Of course Lui is hedging his bets by giving to Labour. I blame the system whether it is Banks NZ First National or Labour. Lot’s of money is needed to get exposure. We need a more orderly system.

    This morning on RadioNZ I hear that the government is spending 30b on roading over the next 10 years. Julie Anne Genter speaks for the Greens (roads v’s trains) and Phill Twyford for Labour. The herald presents the news as about cycleways. None bring up the effect on the deficit and real exchange rate of population growth and infrastructure requirements.
    , yet it is something people ought to know. So we are poorly served by a biased (or deficient) media and a political system that requires cash.

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  32. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ davidp (3,451 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:26 am

    Can you prove that Grant Robertson knew about that donation?

    There is a vast difference between Ms Collins using tax payers money to promote her husbands interests, and Labour accepting a donation, and conveniently forgetting about it. If you can’t see that difference, then you should run for government, you’d fit right in with the current team.

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  33. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    Judith

    They are all doing it burt.

    Yes, no argument. And like children they all use that defense. I might try it with speeding…. I get pulled over and I’ll say ‘others were speeding too and Judith says that makes it OK’.

    FFS Judith. They (each and every one of them individually) should be accountable under the law rather than measured against each other.

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  34. hj (7,063 comments) says:

    Birdies, bribes and bulldozers. How it’s done in China/ Aotearoa
    http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21604075-what-rise-golf-says-about-economic-change-middle-kingdom-birdies-bribes-and

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  35. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Are Fairfax editorial staff going to further finance McCready to bring a charge of dishonesty against the Labour Party for malpractice? I should think not. It is common knowledge Fairfax and other journos were having whip arounds for him to ruin Banks.

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  36. mikenmild (11,702 comments) says:

    Just wondering, does paying for an item at an auction even count as a ‘donation’? Don’t all parties do a variety of fund raising – is there any distinction between that and outright donations?

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  37. davidp (3,587 comments) says:

    Judith>and Labour accepting a donation, and conveniently forgetting about it

    Are you saying that Labour lost the $15k down the back of the couch?

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  38. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    Those donations are corrupt when National do them and perfectly fine when Labour do it because National do it too – Just ask Judith, she’s and expert on this type of apologist defense.

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  39. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    burt (7,495 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:33 am
    Judith

    FFS Judith. They (each and every one of them individually) should be accountable under the law rather than measured against each other.

    I totally agree. The longer we sit back and let it happen, the more ‘normal’ it will become, and the worse it will get, until such a time as our parliament is a corrupt as those other countries we currently criticise.

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  40. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    Judith

    So put down your “I hate John Key” meme and join the cry to see Labour held accountable for this.

    Saying National did it too and not calling for heads from Labour is being an apologist for corruption – do you see this ?

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  41. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ burt (7,495 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:38 am

    Stop putting your own twist on it. That is NOT what I have said. I have made it perfectly clear that they are ALL as bad as each other.

    I am simply pointing out that National supporters can’t claim a moral victory or anything of the sort, because National, like Labour and the others, has been both complicit in corruption, and in being the accusers. Sadly no party can claim the moral high ground on this one.

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  42. mikemikemikemike (331 comments) says:

    “Why did Labour not declare Liu’s donation?”

    Because they are hypocritical cunts??

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  43. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ burt (7,496 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:42 am

    WHEN you start the call for Ms Collins to be accountable for her corruption and other such examples set by National, then I will join the call for ALL to be held responsible. But as long as you and others on here insist that their ‘teams’ corruption is not worthy of accountability, then I don’t see why anyone should be called to be accountable.

    Monkey see, monkey do!

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  44. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    Judith, you say “NONE of them can be accused of being hypocrites” – pfft, they’re rightly being accused right here in this very thread, so clearly that statement is factually incorrect. Perhaps you meant ALL of them can be accused of being hypocrites?

    “And you lot are being hypocrites now – by trying to make out that your team has NEVER claimed to have higher standards, when its been proved they haven’t. ”

    Oh, I missed someone saying on behalf of “you lot” that “our team has NEVER claimed to have higher standards”. Whoever said it doesn’t have a mandate to speak for me.

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  45. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    Judith

    I am simply pointing out that National supporters can’t claim a moral victory or anything of the sort,

    …. FFS Judith. They (each and every one of them individually) should be accountable under the law rather than measured against each other.

    Keep telling us National do it too…. You are a moron, I have no more to say to you.

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  46. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ davidp (3,452 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:37 am

    I don’t know what labour did with it, they sure as hell didn’t use it to find a decent leader, just as we don’t know who Ms Collins used our money to go to dinner with.

    I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. What they did with the money has no consequence, it is the fact they were given the money and didn’t declare it that is the issue here.

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  47. Lance (2,708 comments) says:

    No matter how much Judith and the collective try to deflect this, ad-hominem or whatever else they desperately try to drag up Labour are in deep shit on this, even the Hoorald has gone after them.

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  48. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,917 comments) says:

    The most delicious aspect of this latest piece of Labour perfidy is the similarity to the Judith Collins/Oravida episode.

    One difference being Labour got the money but NZ got nothing in return.

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  49. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    @burt, I think sometimes you have to be a bit lenient with Judith and the other Key haters. This is a very tough time for them and they’ve got at least 3 more years of it ahead.

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  50. emmess (1,432 comments) says:

    How is this news? ALL our current political parties are as corrupt as each other.

    How is this news?
    How is this news?
    How is this news?
    I am lost for words

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  51. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    WHEN you start the call for Ms Collins to be accountable for her corruption and other such examples set by National, then I will join the call for ALL to be held responsible.

    What corruption has Judith Collins been found guilty of Judith. There have been plenty of allegations made, but four months on Collins is still Minister of Justice, and most certainly hasn’t been found to be corrupt by anyone other than Trevor Mallard, Grant Robertson or Winston Peters.

    You say you despise John Key for lying, yet you make unsubstantiated and arguably defamatory statements about Judith Collins. That doesn’t do much for your credibility from where I’m sitting.

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  52. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Adolf Fiinkensein (2,752 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:51 am
    The most delicious aspect of this latest piece of Labour perfidy is the similarity to the Judith Collins/Oravida episode.

    How is Ms Collins using tax payer money to attend a dinner with a Chinese border official to promote a company for which her husband is a director, anything like Labour accepting a donation and that money going into their party coffers?

    Compare it by all means to John Key attending dinners in return for a large ticket price on seats, but you cannot compare it to something that was done to advance her family’s income prospects. Very very different.

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  53. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock (9,979 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:54 am

    Here is just one example. Ms Collins attended a dinner that she has said was private and therefore does not have to reveal the details of that dinner to use – and yet she got to that dinner using a vehicle/mode of travel of which my tax payer dollars contributed to. She refuses to give me the details of that dinner, despite me having to pay for her travel to it and from it. It was NOT on the way to some where else she was going.

    Therefore, as far as I am concerned, she is corrupt. She has used money that is not for her personal enjoyment or private use.

    I have worked for the government, and attended overseas conferences of which they have paid for all travel involved, except for travel/taxis etc to personal meetings/events whilst on such visits. Any of those I have to declare, and pay for myself. She did neither – she is corrupt.

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  54. Ed Snack (1,926 comments) says:

    Judith, Collin’s husband is a director; he is not a shareholder as far as I know. Thus there is no specific financial inducement.

    And given that you regard (as mind you, so do I) that politicians are by default corrupt and largely held hostage to wealthy donors of all stripes, I take that you would (again like me) be an active believer in reducing as far as is reasonable the role of government in ordinary life so the corruption has as little impact as possible. That would make you a “small government” supporter yes ?

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  55. James Stephenson (2,223 comments) says:

    Exactly – and that is exactly what National were doing when Shearer stuffed up,

    Perhaps you can find us an example Judith? Because all I can find is John Key saying of Shearer, that it’s “unfortunate, but people make mistakes”.

    Contrast that with the outraged frothing from the Labour benches recently.

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  56. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ed Snack (1,677 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Judith Collins husband is paid to be a director. The amount varies according to the company’s performance on an annual basis – therefore there is a financial inducement for him (and indirectly to her) should the company perform better.

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  57. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ James Stephenson (1,950 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 11:04 am

    I suggest you find and watch all question times since Shearer’s income was revealed, and you will find many comments (digs) regarding the episode. Try to watch will both eyes open.

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  58. Pongo (374 comments) says:

    Why do people bother engaging with Judith ? She constantly captures the comments section and takes it off in her direction. Personally I think she has single handedly ruined the KB comments section, shame and if I was DPF I would ban her and tell her to start her own blog.

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  59. davidp (3,587 comments) says:

    Judith>and yet she got to that dinner using a vehicle/mode of travel of which my tax payer dollars contributed to

    I thought the Chinese government was providing the transport? Labour tried (and failed, again, tragically) to make some sort of deal of that too.

    We provide transport for foreign ministers and heads of state when they visit NZ. I work in a building in Wellington that is on the route to the airport and you can see the government vehicles come past. I suppose in Judith World, it is okay for our government to take these people to meetings or their hotel, but if they want to pop out for a bite to eat then they should take the bus. Because anything else is evidence of corruption, for some reason only you understand.

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  60. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    Take that James Stephenson! Killer blow Judith, albeit with no supporting links or citations.

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  61. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    C’mon Pongo, join in the fun, she’s taking on all comers today.

    Three more years Judith ;) You’re just warming up.

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  62. Nookin (3,462 comments) says:

    “Judith Collins husband is paid to be a director. The amount varies according to the company’s performance on an annual basis – therefore there is a financial inducement for him (and indirectly to her) should the company perform better.”

    That may be the case. Do you have a link to the company’s resolution fixing the director’s fees and in particular for Judith Collins’ husband?

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  63. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    @ Judith; from Stuff (2 May 2014)

    The New Zealand embassy in Beijing asked about the dinner and said it assumed the booking would be made by Shi. It also asked if transport was required.
    Collins’ office replied nothing was required from Mfat.

    Do you still stand by your allegation that Collins used taxpayer funds to get to the dinner? My recollection is that transport for her was arranged by Stone Shi. That only leaves her time, and I’m sure that even you would not be so ungracious as to allow a Minister a couple of hours off on a Sunday night :D

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  64. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ davidp (3,453 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 11:08 am

    You miss the point entirely. When representing the government overseas on a trip which they have paid for, it is necessary to DECLARE any personal meetings, including who they were with, and all expenses relating to those meetings/visits must be paid for yourself.

    If Ms Collins used Chinese government provided transport, then she was using something that was given to her as Minister of Justice – and her attendance can therefore be deemed as under that title. If she used that vehicle given to her as a government official, but used it as a private individual, without declaring that interest – then she is corrupt.

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  65. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock (9,980 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 11:14 am

    If it was provided by Stone Shi – then that is even more corrupt. To go to China, under the premise of being the Minister of Justice, and needing to be there to observe etc the business of Justice, but accept transport etc from a business of whom her family benefits from personally, is certainly even more underhanded.

    Was she there on Justice business, or to pamper and advance Oravida? In short, why did Oravida have so much input into the Minister’s trip? Do Oravida have an interest in the Chinese Justice system?

    You can put as many smiles as you like, but we all know exactly what Collins trip was for and whilst she has managed to dodge the bullet by being protected by Key – it will come back to bite her eventually. No one (except the foolish) is fooled in the slightest.

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  66. Nookin (3,462 comments) says:

    ” If she used that vehicle given to her as a government official, but used it as a private individual, without declaring that interest – then she is corrupt.”

    No. She is guilty of failing to declare an interest. If, at the private dinner, she vowed to put the weight of her Minister of Justice portfolio on an issue dear to the heart of her hosts in return for favourable treatment of Oravida, then (and only then) is she corrupt

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  67. BeaB (2,144 comments) says:

    Unless Judith you are prepared to tell us what project you worked on with John Key and how he actually lied then we must come to the conclusion that everything you lambast everyone else for is just, well, lies.

    Put up or shut up, Judith. I for one am tired of your spiteful, unfounded and hysterical accusations. And your nasty vendetta against Key and Collins.

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  68. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ BeaB (2,025 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    Then bigger fool you for continuing to read them.

    Do you constantly put your finger under a hot flame to see if it is still hot? If you don’t like doing something sweetie, stop doing it!! ;-)

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  69. burt (8,312 comments) says:

    I’m starting to think Judith is actually Winston Peters. There is only one thing consistent in all of Judith’s positions – it’s OK when people she likes do it.

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  70. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Nookin (2,934 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    No. She is guilty of failing to declare an interest.

    When others have failed to declare interests etc, they have been called corrupt. I do not see why Ms Collins should be considered special and that the same accusations should not apply to her.

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  71. Elaycee (4,404 comments) says:

    70 comments to date. ~20 from ‘Judith’…. Pffttt….

    I can understand why she was given the arse card from the Trade Me forums (when she commented as ‘Ginny’).

    Clearly they had a gutsful, too…

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  72. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    I wonder how much of Judith’s angst towards Ms Collins is caused by the latter’s refusal to accept the retired Canadian judge’s flawed report on the Bain compo issue.

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  73. Nookin (3,462 comments) says:

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, Judith. You don’t call Collins corrupt because some redneck called labour corrupt based on an identical scenario. If you want to call Collins corrupt then you have to go the additional step, just as they do.

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  74. adze (2,129 comments) says:

    Where is anticorruptionnz??

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  75. Peter (1,723 comments) says:

    What will Labour supporters be overcome with first?

    The toxic cloud of sanctimony or the foul stench of hypocrisy?

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  76. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    @ adze – and where’s Penny Bright when you need her?

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  77. alloytoo (571 comments) says:

    @ KS

    I was just thinking the same thing, conspicuous in her absence.

    maybe she’s gone to pay her rates, or for the damage to Aotoa square from her campout………

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  78. backster (2,184 comments) says:

    Radio News does not seem to have caught up with this sensational news yet.

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  79. Dany (7 comments) says:

    Agree with Pongo, time for Judith to find some other kind of therapy

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  80. lilman (966 comments) says:

    Judith you labour babe,can only say you’re so left that you can see the truth.
    You don’t support labour,yeah right!!

    It really stuns me that Judith calls out pollys for lying,yet seems to refuse to believe that David lied even though he is a proven lair in court.

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  81. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Elaycee (4,206 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 11:30 am

    Bullshit, I’ve never posted on trademe forums as Ginny – I haven’t posted there for years but still could if I wanted to, but prefer to keep it for trading, I do read there occassionally but they generally talk more garbage than you do – dishonesty suits you!

    PS, I just checked on trademe, I see there is a poster called Ginny, who joined in February 2002 and hasn’t logged in since February 2002 – obviously my dear, you are mistaken -

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  82. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Dany (4 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    I guess you are just like pongo, can’t stand people who have an opinion that differs to yours?

    I can only take a conversation in a direction if people decide to follow that direction – perhaps if you don’t like it, you should stop reading and answering my comments?

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  83. ross411 (870 comments) says:

    Judith (6,587 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 10:01 am
    I have worked with him on a particular project and he was dishonest in the statements he made. I consider him to be a liar, and since then have witnessed several other occasions where he has not be open and honest about his intentions.

    *sigh* Like anyone believes you at this point. You are such a font of ill-reasoned misery, always with an excuse why the questions about your claims cannot be answered. Or hand-waving away dismissal of your logic, yet applying only what logic suits you to burble more negativity related to whatever chips are on your shoulder.

    I’m calling you on this. I think you never really worked with John Key on anything. And frankly, even if you did in some loose capacity where you can be here claiming you “worked with him”, given your weak claims of corruption above, it is hard to believe you could have formed a well reasoned opinion let alone a believable one about his honesty.

    So, go into detail and actually provide something of substance for a change, rather than vague posturing.

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  84. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    ross411 (137 comments) says:
    June 16th, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Quite frankly my dear, I couldn’t give a flying fig whether you believe me or not.

    If you are stupid enough to give your identity on a public website, good on you – as a female and having witnessed people on here calling each other out, and threatening violence, I am not about to give anything that would enable someone to find me.

    Continue to believe or disbelieve whatever you like – and make whatever threats you like – I have worked with Key when working as a policy analyst for the Govt but the fact is, even if I was silly enough to give you some details of that, you wouldn’t believe them anyway!

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  85. Nookin (3,462 comments) says:

    “…and where’s Penny Bright when you need her?”

    We all have our needs – some more than others and some of weird and wonderful varieties but, really, I struggle to think that Penny could ever count as one of them.

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  86. goldnkiwi (1,519 comments) says:

    Great to even see it in the msm, good on the ‘whistleblower’?, either that or they knew all along? One would think that they had interviewed Liu over the Williamson affair. It would seem natural for him to have mentioned it then?

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  87. wreck1080 (3,958 comments) says:

    because labour are corrupt?

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  88. ross001 (218 comments) says:

    Judith, Collin’s husband is a director; he is not a shareholder as far as I know. Thus there is no specific financial inducement.

    Oh, OK, so Collins’ hubby likes to work for free. Yeah that’ll be why Collins lied about popping into Oravida on the way to the airport, when the airport is nowhere near bloody Oravida. Did you come down in the last shower?

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  89. ross001 (218 comments) says:

    Radio News does not seem to have caught up with this sensational news yet.

    Wot news is that, that National is so devoid of policies that they have to whine about a book sale?

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  90. ross001 (218 comments) says:

    The disclosure limit in 2007 was $10,000. Liu donated $15,000 to Labour.

    Maybe Liu split the payments in two after taking advice from John Banks.

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  91. BeaB (2,144 comments) says:

    Ross
    I was on my way to Taupo. On the way I called into Tirau.
    Not a direct route but ‘on my way’.

    It makes me laugh every time I hear this dopey interpretation especially when the diversion was so short, especially in China. .

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  92. OneTrack (3,221 comments) says:

    ross001 – “Maybe Liu split the payments in two after taking advice from John Banks.”

    So you will support the same legal action being taken against Labour that was taken against Banks. Welcome aboard.

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  93. Elaycee (4,404 comments) says:

    Judith / Jinny / Ginny / whatever name you are using this week: You conceded you had been blocked / turfed out / axed / given the arse card / banned / whatever you want to call it, from the Trade Me forums back in (IIRC) 2012.

    At the time, someone who was a member there, opined on KB the banning was a result of you (plus others) trying to dominate a thread relating to the 5 Bain murders. If someone dared have a differing opinion to yours, they were given the rude card / the rant response / the indignant response / the ‘you don’t know what you’re talking about’ response / the ‘I know better than you’ response etc.

    Some habits die hard.

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  94. dog_eat_dog (789 comments) says:

    Someone needs to make a complaint to the police about Labour’s knowingly false donation return, post-haste.

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  95. adze (2,129 comments) says:

    Hmm still no Penny Bright/anticorruptionz? We can give them the benefit of the doubt that they don’t spend every waking hour monitoring KB… :) but still, it will be interesting if they “keep the pressure on CORRUPTION!1!one” with Labour’s dodgy electoral donations as vigorously as they have with Messrs Banks and (belatedly) Brown. :)

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