Armstrong on McCully

July 11th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

writes:

will not be resigning from the Cabinet over his ministry’s inept handling of the alleged sex attack involving a staff member at the Malaysian High Commission.

He is under no constitutional obligation to do so. He is under no substantial political pressure (as yet) to do so. He has done nothing that is politically shady or morally dubious which would give his opponents the grounds for demanding that he does so.

Even if the foreign minister did offer his resignation, it is most unlikely that John Key would accept it. In short, it is going to take much more than the victim in the alleged attack calling on him to step down for that to actually happen.

Interesting that the politician who has said the most insensitive things about the case is Hone Harawira for saying it is all a fuss about bugger all. Yet no one is calling on him to resign – just Murray McCully, who is actually the MP who ended up getting Malaysia to agree to extradite the alleged attacker.

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67 Responses to “Armstrong on McCully”

  1. burt (7,828 comments) says:

    I guess a 22 year old female is going to be a Labour supporter. The intensity of her anti government comments and her confidence on camera make we wonder what her motives are.

    She should be wanting justice – not resignations. How did she expect McCully to control the Malaysian government ?

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  2. mister nui (975 comments) says:

    Interesting that the politician who has said the most insensitive things about the case is Hone Harawira

    Ah, but Hone can’t be criticised, for two reasons;
    1. It would be racist
    2. He comes from the left and could help them to get into power – the left being the ones behind this “media campaign”.

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  3. anonymouse (695 comments) says:

    Interesting that the politician who has said the most insensitive things about the case is Hone Harawira

    Until he got jumped on by his new paymasters in the Internet party

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  4. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    Victim is 22 years old and politically naive. Ripe for exploitation by politically motivated leftists in Labour Party and in media. This is more about damaging National than about justice for victim.

    Always the same. In any pre-election period, LW media works hard to shift public attention from things that matter to contrived issues that benefit left wing parties.

    Pro-Labour media, or so called journalists acting as propaganda agents for left wing of politics, are a serious threat to the democratic process.

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  5. Other_Andy (2,307 comments) says:

    If Logie and her supporters were really sincere about this they should be protesting at the Malaysian High Commission.
    The cynical among us would argue that because they are not targeting the Malaysian government, but McCully and Key, this smells like a political smear campaign.

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  6. mister nui (975 comments) says:

    Whilst I agree with your analysis Red, I think in this instance, you will find it is the scum watermelons doing the exploitation.

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  7. RightNow (6,676 comments) says:

    I get the impression DPF is being very careful what he posts about this incident. Meanwhile fools are rushing in with their steel capped boots.

    The alleged offender was arrested on May 9 and appeared in Wellington District Court on May 10 to face charges of burglary and assault with intent to rape. Diplomatic immunity was invoked, but my understanding is that those charges are still active and the matter is sub-judice.

    There seems to be no shortage of politicians, activists and commentators prepared to trample all over due process in an attempt to score political advantage from the situation. Poor form, I trust they will be held to account.

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  8. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    MR Nui- OK, thanks for that correction.

    If there is any criticism due here it should be directed at MOFAT officials. McCully and Key did not even know about it.

    Shifting emphasis to Key/McCully and calling for their resignation makes the story appear politically motivated rather than an attempt to see justice served, as story’s producers pretend.

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  9. backster (2,081 comments) says:

    Seems like an orchestrated left wing dirty tricks event to me. Co-ordinated from the War room, involving a Goffy mole embedded in the Foreign Office, and exclusive access to a compliant and biassed TV3.. It also demonstrates how Labour and the Greens can work together to their mutual advantage.

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  10. waripori (7 comments) says:

    There is no way this guy is coming back here after the fuss made in the house and the TV programme. I heard a chap from the Law Society this morning say that it will be difficult to find a jury here and now a judge may actually dismiss any case in front of them because the atmosphere has been poisoned beyond any hope of a fair trial.

    I presume extradition from Malaysia to here could be contested in a Malaysian court in the same way that KDC has fought extradition in NZ courts or Mr WikiLeaks fought extradition to Sweden on rape charges. No court would send one of their citizens back here into the maelstrom created by Labour and the Greens looking for political advantage.

    I do hope someone faces a contempt of court proceeding over this.

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  11. Fentex (867 comments) says:

    Harawira was not responsible and is not accountable for MFAT and it’s actions, McCully is.

    Or apparently isn’t, as accountability is evidently not something to be expected from our ministers, be it taking responsibility for defaming Malaysian authorities, insulting NZ citizens through disregard of them and organising a dysfunctional department that lies to it’s minister or, as in Collins case, misleading parliament over misappropriating tax payer funds to provide aid to relatives financial interest.

    Harawira was a dick, but he’s not a minister so his accountability is to be found at the ballot box. He hasn’t a rule book to obey regarding duties as a minister. But it seems neither has anyone else in NZ.

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  12. altiora (211 comments) says:

    While clearly Jan Logie is manipulating this, it does take two to tangle: Tania Billingsley appears to be very adept at articulating anti-government sentiment. I find it extraordinary that any victim of an alleged sexual assault would voluntarily imperil the chances of the alleged perpetrator being extradited to New Zealand due to concerns about whether he’ll receive a fair trial.

    My sixth sense tells me that there is something more to than this than meets the eye. We have hit a new low when this matter is treated as a political football before a trial has been held to determine the issue.

    I looked at Jan Logie’s facebook page, she seems rather obsessed with this alleged “rape culture”. I also found a picture of some young guy holding up a very odd sign:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151755773365411&set=pb.778425410.-2207520000.1405032227.&type=3&theater

    Can anyone tell me what is meant by the sign? I have mulled it over night and day and still can’t make sense of it.

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  13. Other_Andy (2,307 comments) says:

    backster says:

    Seems like an orchestrated left wing dirty tricks event to me. Co-ordinated from the War room, involving a Goffy mole embedded in the Foreign

    Payback from the PSA for stalled wage rise negotiations?

    PSA national secretary Richard Wagstaff says the ministry’s workers are “key to the Government’s plans for New Zealanders’ wages to rise, but they find themselves stuck in the mud. This strike action is the result of ministry staff becoming increasingly frustrated with their employer’s refusal to offer decent wage movement.”

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Labour-Striking-MBIE-workers-embarrassing-for-Govt/tabid/1607/articleID/348300/Default.aspx

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  14. Viking2 (11,146 comments) says:

    backster (2,054 comments) says:
    July 11th, 2014 at 10:38 am

    Seems like an orchestrated left wing dirty tricks event to me. Co-ordinated from the War room, involving a Goffy mole embedded in the Foreign Office, and exclusive access to a compliant and biassed TV3.. It also demonstrates how Labour and the Greens can work together to their mutual advantage.

    ++++++++++++++
    nah,
    whats the bet had this young lady stayed quiet nothing would have been said or done. Quite inconvenient that she has support to speak up.

    Mfat made a fuckup but it has continually been compounded by even more incompetence and offhand behavior that seemed designed to let the matter die.

    As I said earlier as a taxpayer it pisses me off that the Malaysians who we spent a lot of taxpayer money helping told our Law keepers to get fucked.
    And they should have that pointed out to them in no uncertain terms.
    No wonder the Chinese were pissed with them.

    No soothing words or insincere apologies are going to cover up this mess.

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  15. Tautaioleua (282 comments) says:

    A friend of mine knows the victim. The friend is, disappointed. There is no class in politicising attempted rape just a couple of months before an election.

    As DPF pointed out, the minister successfully lobbied the Malaysian government to have the diplomat return to face trial. The Malaysians were under no obligation to yield. Diplomatic immunity is enshrined in the Vienna Convention. If anything, the government ought to be applauded for their successful efforts.

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  16. Ashley Schaeffer (410 comments) says:

    Can anyone tell me what is meant by the sign? I have mulled it over night and day and still can’t make sense of it.

    I think it’s supposed to mean that he thinks with his brain and not with his dick.
    Ironically, his dick probably has a higher IQ.

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  17. simpleton1 (155 comments) says:

    trust you do not mind as re-post from general debate as more pertinent here

    The real political influence from Malaysia is the certification for halal.
    Halal for all meat processing, and also through many food processing factories.

    If certification is held up, dilly dallied with, then it will become real uncomfortable for the NZ factories, economy and employment

    The largest dairy company the largest exporter of dairy products world wide is also halal certified, particularly for certain products, that are exported to muslim countries, though those same products are still sold to the unwitting NZ public.
    http://tinyurl.com/mvukslq

    Even the New Zealander’s chocolate “whittakers”
    http://www.whittakers.co.nz/#/faq/
    if you go to the faq then fourth from bottom click for that answer.
    Only Rum & Raison that is not halal certified everything else is halal certified.

    Some other small business’s confectionery, yogurts, cheeses, restaurants, possibly with tourist connections,
    http://tinyurl.com/n3zme3v
    are slowly being pressured to comply to halal standards, and so pay the compliance certificate tax.

    One must also realize that though western justice/ parliamentary systems are there, islamic principles are enshrined / entangled in their laws.

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  18. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    For the record, the TV3 journalist involved has categorically denied any influence from Jan Logie with TV3 and with victim.

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  19. Other_Andy (2,307 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (7,460 comments) says:

    “For the record, the TV3 journalist involved has categorically denied any influence from Jan Logie with TV3 and with victim.”

    No need.
    TV3 is the ‘Greens’ PR department.

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  20. mister nui (975 comments) says:

    Where did you get that from Red?

    I would like to know who collaborated with the victim on her “essay”, as it still had the some track changes marks evident, where changes had been made but not accepted. Clearly someone(s) else assisted with the production of this “essay”.

    Amateur hour.

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  21. altiora (211 comments) says:

    Yes Ashley, that was one interpretation of the sign I arrived at. The other was that some external entity was controlling it and he was asserting his independence. But then I couldn’t see the tinfoil hat on him. Then again, he probably is a Greens supporter.

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  22. burt (7,828 comments) says:

    It’s actually hard to understand how an aggrieved victim of sexual assault can be so ruthlessly abused for political purposes. This whole thing now smells like a rancid jack up. I’m starting to think the Malaysian government did the right thing refusing to return the Labour/Green election winning poster child to NZ.

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  23. altiora (211 comments) says:

    I shouldn’t say this, but part of me hopes that Malaysia refuses to extradite him and makes clear that it is doing so as it doubts he will get a fair trial due to the Opposition’s political involvement and the interview.

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  24. Unity (294 comments) says:

    There is definitely something very fishy going on with this case. One wonders also if Murray McCully was deliberately left out of the loop at the time so they would have something derogatory to beat him over the head with. I’m amazed the victim has come out and spoken in the first place but also with such confidence. Surely she must have realised that a trial could be prejudiced. Politics are certainly coming into play in amongst all of this.

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  25. Jimbo (40 comments) says:

    Looking at some of the comments here is it any wonder that Miss Billingsley has chosen to approach a politician of the left?

    This is a very risky issue for the right and if National becomes perceived to be callous to the interests of women it will lose this election. Toby Manhire’s column today picked up on some of the nastier comments out there from right wing blogs. No doubt Labour politicians are rubbing their hands at being able to paint National as anti-women.

    The reason that Don Brash lost in 2005 is that he lost the female vote. Ask any centrist voting woman out there and 4 out of 5 of them will describe their antipathy to Don Brash. John Key managed to reverse that perception but he’s going to have a tough time if the right start heaping abuse on the alleged victim.

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  26. BeaB (2,060 comments) says:

    Typical NZ own goal. It’s going to cost us thousands for the trial and perhaps imprisonment and we think that’s a good thing? Leave the sod there.
    I hate these cynical political acts dressed up as moral campaigns that just cost us more and more money for far too many entitled people to rest their bums in cushy jobs on our dollar.

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  27. david (2,539 comments) says:

    The real author of the “Essay” has yet to be established. It reads like a professionally written document or political hit piece, carefully edited and researched. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the Parliamentary Library or Green Party research unit has had a hand in its preparation. If not, then this girl has a promising career as a “communications advisor” to someone. The grammar, use of language, statistics point to someone educated in another era though and the lack of Gen X or Y (or wherever we are up to …. perhaps it is gen XX) references doesn’t ring true.

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  28. freemark (452 comments) says:

    There are some leaks coming out of the Greens/Labour currently. Apparently there are still some in the parliamentary wing who believe in the Environmental mandate and they are becoming very, very uncomfortable with being associated with this campaign/jack up. Watch this space…

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  29. Unity (294 comments) says:

    No Jimbo, the reason Don Brash lost the election in 2005 was because Labour fraudulently bought the election with their pledge cards which were found to be illegal after the election but they weren’t held to account. Brash almost got over the line and if Labour hadn’t been so dishonest, he would have made it. We would now have a far different country (for the better) to the one we now have. if he’d got through – of that I’m very sure.

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  30. Lance (2,454 comments) says:

    But but but….

    The left said there was going to be no more dirty tricks and smear campaigns.

    And they never lie…..

    /sarcasm/

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  31. OneTrack (2,618 comments) says:

    freemark – “Apparently there are still some in the parliamentary wing who believe in the Environmental mandate ”

    I find that hard to believe ( that there are any in the greens whose primary focus is the environment. It seems to be all “poverty” (Green tm) and big state is best from all of them )

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  32. Psycho Milt (2,267 comments) says:

    Yet no one is calling on him to resign – just Murray McCully, who is actually the…

    …Minister responsible for this clusterfuck. FIFY.

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  33. Judith (7,646 comments) says:

    burt (7,726 comments) says:
    July 11th, 2014 at 10:03 am

    She did wait for justice to start being done, and when that didn’t happen, she spoke out about it. As would anyone in similar situation. It was not a matter of the police not investigating as they should do, or any other such thing, it was a matter of incompetency, and she had every right to state how she feels about that.

    If the role was reversed and this was a labour government that had made the same mistakes, you’d be screaming blue bloody murder – much like you did when Shearer presented a couple of dead fish in the house.

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  34. Judith (7,646 comments) says:

    @ Lance (2,404 comments) says:
    July 11th, 2014 at 11:47 am

    It is only ‘dirty’ if there is no truth in what the young woman was saying. Please explain WHICH part of her statement, wasn’t true?

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  35. Judith (7,646 comments) says:

    @ Redbaiter (7,461 comments) says:
    July 11th, 2014 at 10:20 am

    At her age, I agree she can be naive about some things, but I don’t think she is politically naive. She appears to have some very strong political opinions, and has had them for some time.

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  36. Nostalgia-NZ (4,914 comments) says:

    ‘altiora (187 comments) says:

    July 11th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    I shouldn’t say this, but part of me hopes that Malaysia refuses to extradite him and makes clear that it is doing so as it doubts he will get a fair trial due to the Opposition’s political involvement and the interview.’

    How does it follow that he won’t get a ‘fair’ trial?

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  37. Judith (7,646 comments) says:

    @ RightNow (6,619 comments) says:
    July 11th, 2014 at 10:32 am

    Actually, I have just had a discussion with a member of the legal profession over that very point. He said that so far sub-judice has not been broken in his opinion, in that, the actual evidence and matters relating to the crime has been absent from the discussion.

    Stating opinions regarding the extradition of the alleged offender, and even the victim speaking out about the process, does not apply to sub-judice ruling apparently.

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  38. Judith (7,646 comments) says:

    @ altiora (187 comments) says:
    July 11th, 2014 at 11:38 am

    The criticism has been about the process, and Nationals handling of that – the trial is about the factual details of the alleged crime. The matter of diplomatic immunity should not even be mentioned in the Court, it has nothing to do with the alleged crime. There will certainly be no opportunity for any political party to play out its fantasies in the trial.

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  39. Chuck Bird (4,684 comments) says:

    This sentence is pathetic. Where is the media on this one? They are busy focusing on this left wing political activist – no doubt with strong ties to the Green Party and possibly Jan Logie.

    Adoptive father jailed for incest

    An adoptive father who had sex with his intellectually impaired daughter, resulting in her getting pregnant, has gone to jail for three years and three months.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10256987/Adoptive-father-jailed-for-incest

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  40. Judith (7,646 comments) says:

    They are busy focusing on this left wing political activist – no doubt with strong ties to the Green Party and possibly Jan Logie.

    So because she is a left wing activist, and we have a National government, she deserves to have her home invaded and be almost raped, does she?

    What if the intellectually disabled person in the case you mention turns out to be a leftie?

    God help us should your kind of reasoning ever be listened to.

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  41. lastmanstanding (1,207 comments) says:

    Now some might say but of course I couldn’t possibly comment that maybe just maybe there might not actually be a case to answer and that the so called victim has as some may say but I couldn’t possibly comment a quite vivid imagination.

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  42. Lance (2,454 comments) says:

    @Judith
    Never said she was lying.
    I was referring to politicizing of this serious issue.
    This has quickly gone from bureaucrats screwing up, to callous McCully and now indifferent John Key.

    The left promised a clean campaign from now on. No evidence of that happening here.
    Who knows, someone might actually talk about policy… nah, won’t happen.

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  43. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (789 comments) says:

    While I sympathise with this young woman, she appears to be politically motivated and highly likely to be a toxic Green. All she appears to be doing is to get political mileage out of this situation backed by the socialists and the communists. While I am not a fan of Mooza McCully (long gone past his use by date), he should simply ignore this crazy political stunt and move on.

    The communists and socialists have nothing better to do and this young woman is a victim of their political game.

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  44. altiora (211 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ, and to some extent Judith: Malaysia are within their rights to continue to insist on diplomatic immunity, for that reason everything said and done in New Zealand will be scrutinised by the Malaysian government. They are not going to send him back if they doubt he will get a fair trial, or if they feel that Malaysia has lost face.

    Although Malaysia doesn’t have a bad record towards women (although I understand that there is some form of Shariah law in a northern province), I am not too sure that they are exactly comfortable with the western feminist overtones of the comments made by politicians and in the interview.

    This is the crux of the problem: it is entirely possible that Malaysia is in the wrong here, given that the formal communication to Malaysia from the Government requested it waive diplomatic immunity, and that formal communication cannot be said to have been over-ridden by alleged “ambiguities” from MFaT in meetings. If that is the case, then Jan Logie and the alleged victim are putting the government in a invidious position: do they take the rap and suffer domestic political fallout; or do they point the finger at Malaysia, causing it to lose face and affect New Zealand’s relations with it (including Malaysia refusing to waive immunity).

    So all this is leading to is this: politicians and the alleged victim should desist from saying anything until after we have got the diplomat back in the country and after he has been tried.

    The other problem is that the alleged victim made a number of accusations against the government (many of which were simple baseless smears (one might not like Key, but that doesn’t justify saying that he doesn’t care about sexual assault) in circumstances where the inquiry has not yet begun and so we don’t know what, if anything, went wrong.

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  45. waripori (7 comments) says:

    They have politicians in Malaysia too and this could easily get quite political there. We wont be very happy if all this grandstanding here results in a call for a boycott of our dairy products in Malaysia. Diplomatic immunity is the norm. Waiving it is entirely at the discretion of the foreign country and we are making it increasingly difficult for that to happen in this case.

    What sort of discussion would we be having here if one of our diplomats was accused of trying to convert a local in a Muslim country with strict laws to Christianity? Or maybe of extra marital sex?Would we be happy to send him or her back to face Shariah law?

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  46. RightNow (6,676 comments) says:

    But a leading legal expert warned Billingsley may have weakened the prosecution against her alleged attacker by giving the interview ahead of the case, which he said was “unprecedented” in his more than 30 years as an academic.

    “As far as I can recall it’s unprecedented of a potential complainant going public about the events surrounding the alleged crime before the matter’s come anywhere near a court room,” said Warren Brookbanks, professor of law at the University of Auckland.

    “The danger from that point of view is I think the complainant exposes herself to the risk of jeopardising her credibility as a witness and thereby possibly weakening the prosecution’s case by going public before the matter’s come to trial.”

    Brookbanks said the primary witness “has gone public before the trial and made statements which the defendant is completely unable to respond to, and I don’t think it’s right”.

    Barrister Stephen Bonnar, QC, said allowing the media to conduct interviews with participants in ongoing proceedings ran the risk of material getting out into the public domain which was prejudicial.

    “It’s not an answer simply to say we’re not talking about the facts of the case. You can prejudice proceedings by other means, which may not have anything to do with the facts of the case.”

    Anything which could make a juror more sympathetic towards and party, or biased against another “has the potential to influence their determination,” Bonnar said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10256679/Diplomat-case-coverage-concerns

    Is dancing on the head of a pin easier or harder in steel capped boots?

    I look forward to the results of the ministerial inquiry into how MFAT screwed it up, I think heads should be rolling.

    I hope the alleged offender does get to stand trial in NZ and that justice is conducted openly and fairly.
    The media and other actors have whipped up public interest, the alleged victim has waived her rights to name suppression, I think the public deserve to know the full facts of the matter.
    I’m most interested in knowing whether the alleged offender and the alleged victim knew each other prior to the alleged events.

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  47. altiora (211 comments) says:

    Good quote RightNow. I think Judith et al ignore the blinding obvious implication in the political and media discourse around this case — that it is based on the assumption that the diplomat is guilty and that he must come to New Zealand to “face justice”. That is the prejudicial aspect here. The diplomat is to be presumed innocent until he tried by a court.

    There will be a time for us to discuss how this case was handled, but not right the moment.

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  48. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    “Where did you get that from Red?”

    I got it in response to a direct question to Paula Penfold on Twitter-

    Me- “Paula should therefore be able to categorically state Jan Logie did not influence victim or TV3″

    Paula- “can happily and truthfully state that.”

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  49. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    “At her age, I agree she can be naive about some things, but I don’t think she is politically naive. She appears to have some very strong political opinions, and has had them for some time.”

    She is 22 and easy meat for leftists practised in seducing people with little political knowledge into their ideology.

    She’ll grow out of it if she’s got any brains.

    If she is stupid, it will stick with her into old age.

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  50. dime (9,468 comments) says:

    If you hooked Jan Logie up to a lie detector and asked her if she was stoked this sexual assault happened, reckon the answer would be no… but the machine would say she was lying?

    The worst thing that can happen for our green friends is that this malaysian douche bag does get sent back.

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  51. Nostalgia-NZ (4,914 comments) says:

    altiora: You’ve now said Malaysia may doubt that the alleged offender will get a fair trial. However JK has pointed out what most understand is that he would get a fair trial. I see above Brookbanks saying that it is unprecedented that an ‘alleged’ victim has spoken out in this way and that even if not referring to the case specifically it could lead to questions over the fairness of a trial. The NZ courts have a high tolerance to the fact any Jury may have read publicity about a case, the nature of a robbery for example, the type of offender who was being looked for, that they presented a danger and should not be approached – the reason for that tolerance is common sense really. A Jury is warned about putting aside anything they may have heard positive or negative about an alleged offender or a complainant. At this point there seem to be no specific details of the crime but even if there were we allow trials after certain evidence has been disallowed from an earlier trial, sometimes evidence critical to the validity of the police investigation. The threshold is very high you may recall an instance where a defendant has had charges dismissed for fear that a fair trial can’t take place – however I cant. Whatever feelings I might have about this case I can’t see any reason that NZ would ever take or accept the position that our Justice system is incapable in any circumstances to deliver an unsafe trial. I doubt this case will be ‘retired’ on that, I think it will be in the interests of the ‘mental health’ of the alleged offender.

    As for the alleged victim speaking out. I think she has the right despite the fact that some may form the view that she has an agenda. We’ve even had one commentator here suggest that she is a lesbian if she had not enjoyed the ‘encounter.’ It would have been possibly more acceptable if she had not blamed anyone but had taken the time to express how she felt she had been let down – of course she didn’t do that, however that doesn’t credit the alleged offender in anyway – which is what needs to be remembered there was enough evidence for the police to charge him, a charge they would have considered carefully because of his diplomatic posting. The man was going to be ‘back’ and the beginning of the week but we’ve heard he may not be well – I think that is unprecedented and somewhat an insult to NZ not only about being unable perhaps to ensure a ‘fair’ trial but also the apparent incapacity to care for a defendant whether physically or mentally unwell. It don’t happen.

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  52. altiora (211 comments) says:

    Redbaiter: you should ask Paula as to why she considers that Logie or the Greens didn’t exert influence.

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  53. Chuck Bird (4,684 comments) says:

    “So because she is a left wing activist, and we have a National government, she deserves to have her home invaded and be almost raped, does she?”

    The answer of course is no. However, unlike you I am capable of reasoning and reading.

    I never said anyone deserves to be sexually abused. However, I consider the inadequate sentence for what happened to this intellectually handicapped woman far serious than what may or may not have happened to this left wing activist who priority is attacking the right rather than getting the accused to stand trial. If Malaysia does not send the accused back because of her actions I would say she deserves that outcome.

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  54. dime (9,468 comments) says:

    “So because she is a left wing activist, and we have a National government, she deserves to have her home invaded and be almost raped, does she?”

    Really Judith?

    People like you are a problem. Nothing can ever be discussed cause its the old “you condone rape”.

    I think most blokes here, with the exception of PG and Milky, would knock this guys block off if given the chance. What he is alleged to have done is a terrifying crime.

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  55. Chuck Bird (4,684 comments) says:

    “The diplomat is to be presumed innocent until he tried by a court. ”

    With respect I think you may be wrong if a Labour government gets in. Malaysia could really throw a spanner in the works if they said they will wait to after the election because there may be a chance that the presumption of innocence may no longer be law when a trial takes place.

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  56. Chuck Bird (4,684 comments) says:

    “I think most blokes here, with the exception of PG and Milky, would knock this guys block off if given the chance.”

    You can include me too Dime. The guy has not been convicted of anything.

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  57. altiora (211 comments) says:

    Nostalgia: first of all, I don’t care about dumb comments about her being a lesbian so please don’t tarnish my thought processes.

    Second, you’re conflating two separate issues:

    1. Malaysia’s decision to waive immunity and to extradite: these are solely within Malaysia’s discretion and are inherently political decisions by it, which may be influenced by its assessment of what was said and done by politicians and the alleged victim.

    2. Whether the diplomat will receive a fair trial: yes courts do recognise the realities of news dissemination in an online world. But this case is quite unique as to the political complexion it is taking on, and also this meme of a “dastardly foreigner who skips the country to avoid justice”, and that raises the very real risk that jury members will not enter the court room with open minds. As we have seen on this board, Billingsley’s attacks on the PM and McCully, and her controversial points about the fact that there are men handling the case, were controversial and so again increase the risk that jury members will not have completely open minds.

    As I say, there are questions to be asked about the handling of the case. But it is not clear to me why those questions and debate cannot be held until after the diplomat has been extradited and stands trial. This is a delicate situation involving as it does international relations, so we all need to tread carefully. I would have thought (or at least I did think at one stage) that politicians would put aside the political point scoring for the time being in the interests of not risking giving grounds for Malaysia to refuse to waive and extradite.

    It is all a matter of timing.

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  58. dime (9,468 comments) says:

    Chuck – yeah, i shouldve added once convicted.

    Breaking into a chicks house is right up there on the creepy scale. If convicted of that he deserves a decent beat down.

    I was just reading a thread at whale oil. This chick has disappeared from all social media. That is dodgy. I wonder who is pulling the poor girls strings.

    Where are her parents?

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  59. Pete George (22,863 comments) says:

    “Chuck – yeah, i shouldve added once convicted.”

    Shouldn’t that be “if convicted”, or do you already consider him guilty enough to “knock his block off” when the time is “right”?

    I don’t think you’re right claiming “most blokes” would go along with with your version of thugs’ justice.

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  60. dime (9,468 comments) says:

    PG – yes it should. that was the intent behind it. wrong choice of word.

    also, i doubt you actually associate with many normal blokes.

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  61. goldnkiwi (998 comments) says:

    So if it is okay for an alleging victim to make media statements then it should be okay for the alleged perpetrator to be given the opportunity to make a statement in rebuttal or just make a statement.

    Bet it wouldn’t be allowed, why bother with courts, this is true trial by media.

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  62. bc (1,334 comments) says:

    Even if McCully offers to resign, Key won’t accept it – he won’t want to give the opposition the pleasure of scoring a victory.
    However, I bet that after the summer holiday, Key will have a cabinet reshuffle and McCully won’t be on the list.

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  63. goldnkiwi (998 comments) says:

    Why should McCully resign?
    As the mother of two sons I do not appreciate aspersions being cast on them and NZ male culture, and despite the fact that I am not overly fond of my ex husbands, I would not wish them to be generalised about either.

    As an aside I find the ad on Sky regarding some statistic stating that 90% of women are bi curious disturbing as well. In this I do not mind being in the minority!!! Programme coming to a channel soon, such social engineering and normalising of same sex couples. 90% really?

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  64. Other_Andy (2,307 comments) says:

    @goldnkiwi

    “There are lies, damned lies, and statistics”
    (Probably Mark Twain)

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  65. Unity (294 comments) says:

    I really don’t believe it goldnkiwi. The statistics are probably put out by the ‘challenged’ ones, to help make themselves feel more ‘normal’.

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  66. goldnkiwi (998 comments) says:

    I know there are issues with over population in places but really, same sex couples, just put a tv in every bedroom that doesn’t already have one with a free sports channel. Sorted ;)

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  67. Viking2 (11,146 comments) says:

    I find it difficult to believe that the Malaysian govt. wants to die in a ditch for a lowly ranked minion who has committed a serious crime in the host country.

    What is their thinking process?

    As I have said before, NZ taxpayers have spent millions and millions on Malaysians for their education, for helping them before they could help themselves and in the latest air search for a plane they lost control of.

    Our thanks
    Get Fucked to the upholders of our Law.

    There is definitely something wrong with their thinking processes at the top.

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