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July 12, 2007 12:47pm by David Farrar

A confused NZ Herald?

The headline is the complete opposite of the actual story!

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Comments (57)

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Muad,Dib"

Remember this is a Auckland newspaper we are talking about, end of story…
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July 12, 2007 3:25pm
Neil

Its pretty close for the Herald.
Are they using an engrish to english translator or have they outsourced the sub jobs to Bangladesh?
Could be worse it could have read

“Fujimori Should Be Ejaculated, Cold Judge Reigns”
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July 12, 2007 3:35pm
julie

Dear David Farrar and company,

I know I have only been commenting on this site for a wee while and I know that many of you have far greater education as in papers at Uni and the like than I do and most like your parents weren’t working class…. but….

I don’t understand what you are about. Is right wing people about “discussing the downside of left wing” and is left wing the doers. That might sound a bit tough but left does have control at the moment. And they seem to have a long term agenda.

Is it that right wing has no plans for the future as the left side does? Still don’t want to sound like moaner but if feminism and socialism and communism has plans that go back to early 1900’s does not right wing have some long term plans? And why aren’t you discussing your next move? Why is this site only about the past events?

Once again SORRY if I misunderstand you but as a common person I am confused. But then corporations have at least 5 year plans. And in the circumstances of dealing with the left wing that is carrying out plans that go back 70 odd years I was hoping there was a plan of action for longer than a term in Government.
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July 12, 2007 4:15pm
Porcupine

MSM meets NCEA credits in litter patrol?
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July 12, 2007 4:26pm
julie

Gee, Porcupine,

You are a waste of space IMO. Have you ever heard the term “LIVE LIFE” and then judge it.

I have read your comments over the last few articles and I don’t think for one moment any reasonable person would mind you being exempt from this site.

Because your comments are so “out there” I don’t even know if you are having a go at me personally or just throwing in a stupid reply.

If I am wrong to ask something so simple then so be so. But I don’t deserve the likes of your comments. How sad it is that people who are questioning things get your comments. Are you just so above the rest of us that all common people should vote labor because labor is supposed to be for the working class. Are you so educated that you can’t possibly come down to our level. Mind you the Interenet grows and no longer does it belong to those who are only intellectual.
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July 12, 2007 5:22pm
Linda Wright

Um Julie, I think Porcupine was commenting on the topic – the MSM (Main Stream Media) stuffing up a headline. Not your attempt to hijack this thread.
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July 12, 2007 5:31pm
Muad,Dib"

Dont mention hijack, homeland security could haul us away
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July 12, 2007 5:44pm
Kent Parker

Julie,

How goes?

This is only a right wing blog insofar as David Farrer has some affiliation with the National Party, and while he is overwhelmingly centrist, he does have right wing sympathies. The terms ‘right’ and ‘left’ are a little redundant in this day and age, given that Muldoon (from National, early 1980s) was redder (more left) than Clark and Roger Douglas (Labour, mid 1980s) was bluer (more right) than any politician that ever got onto the front bench.

To post here you also need to have a thick skin, since DPF is a busy man and moderation is a little scant, which also gives it vibrancy that is lost in overmoderated blogs. While there are a lot of ranters, some very good posters do turn up here from time to time and many are very knowledgable.

Back on subject, I noticed on the Herald this morning that it was ‘Thurdsay’ today. Not only do they have their fact checker turned off but also the spell checker.
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July 12, 2007 5:55pm
scrubone

Noticed this one yesterday. Just a bit amusing…
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July 12, 2007 6:06pm
Porcupine

Thanks Linda. Julie – I couldnt understand your post so didn’t feel qualified to coment on it but Kent seems to have cleared it up.
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July 12, 2007 6:22pm
JimW

Julie, are you single yourself and available ? I am a single guy too and like to drink around Ponsonby bars at the weekend. Want to meet up there sometime?
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July 12, 2007 6:32pm
NX

Since nobody else has responded to your questions, I’ll have a stab:

As for academic qualifications – in the realm of opinion they don’t mean much.

Is it that right wing has no plans for the future as the left side does? And why aren’t you discussing your next move?

Who’s next move? What do you think DPF’s blog suppose to be – a master plan for the right wing? DPF chooses to blog on politics but frequently blogs on other topics. Even if he was privy to ‘right wing’ strategies he’s hardly going to let the cat out of the bag on here so they can be preempted by the ‘left wing’. That’s exactly why John Key is keeping his key policies under wraps till the election.

And why aren’t you discussing your next move? Why is this site only about the past events?

Because DPF or the commentators doesn’t have a crystal ball.

As for the left wing’s long term plan. Does this plan include economic imbalances, high inflation & high interest rates? What is the plan with interest free student loans – are they sustainable over the long term? Why has the government got three retirement schemes?

Face it; Labours about a long term as a house fly.
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July 12, 2007 6:37pm
NX

^^ Kent responded in the mean time; good post too.
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July 12, 2007 6:41pm
brendensheehan

I hate to play the left wing unionist (it is so out of character) but didn’t Andrew Little tell you so? The EPMU warned that the quality of our papers would diminish if sub-editing jobs were outcourced.

And guess what? It has.

David’s post is clear proof that newspaper jobs should be kept local. Did anyone notice the page 3 apology in Saturday’s Herald about the ‘fatties’ headline the week before (sorry about the Press Council complaint Ed.)

What next? The Nu Zeeland Herrold? Repawting all the nuse from Orkland.
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July 12, 2007 7:11pm
Patriot

I see they’ve already fixed the article I read earlier today where they refer to Iroquois as planes.
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July 12, 2007 7:24pm
monsta

The quality of online content from both the Herald and Stuff, has been piss poor and going downhill rapidly. The number of times I’ve seen grammatical and spelling errors, let alone repeated or incomplete sentences, is beyond belief. Just as well we’re not paying for the content.
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July 12, 2007 8:30pm
Kent Parker

The number of times I’ve seen grammatical and spelling errors

Actually, its probably got more to do with the fact that online, if you make a typo, you can fix it up later, but if you are submitting to print, no way hosay. Proof reading is not as essential as it used to be. Still, its not very professional, I suppose.
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July 12, 2007 9:35pm
Bullshit Detector

This one is almost as bad…wrong sport, altho I gather he’s about the right size for a jockey…
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July 12, 2007 11:36pm
julie

Sorry Porcupine for lashing out at you. It was my own insecurity that expected something smart back, I guess.

Kent you did explain things well, thanx.

The Internet IS a crystal ball. The next moves are everywhere to see IMO. But ring wing moves cannot be plastered on a site prior to them happening. I just hope they are aware of what is next.

Jim W, I prefer west to ponsonby. lol
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July 13, 2007 8:14am
Sam Dixon

I think Julie does have a point but one that is perhaps better directed at the National party than someone like DPF, who is only a voicebox for National, let alone the right-wing commentators on this blog who are mostly just ordinary dame and dudes, and that point is that we see very little in the way of an alternative vision from the Nats, very little policy, ad the public has a right to know how a wannabe government would govern.

So far under Key most of his policy actions have been to remove previous National positions that were unpopular with that key demcorgrpahic, the urban liberal female, either conceding to the Labour policy or not putting a new policy in place at all. Of course, he has kept National’s prime point of difference, tax cuts leading to the charge that he is turning National into ‘Labour with tax cuts’..

now, it seems the public is acutally quite comfortalbe with ‘Labour with tax cuts. But I suspect that very few of us who are really interested in politics beleive that is the depth of Natioanl’s agenda – certianly I don’t trust them and I don’t beleive Natioanl’s core supporters liek the ones on this blog would be happy if National came into governemtn and carried on like Labour but with some tax cuts… so, what is National’s real agenda? and what would it do in place of the actiosn by the Governemnt that it criticises so much? NCEA out the door? What woudl be down to improve hospitals while cutting costs, who would that acutally be done? How would Natioanl build roads cheaper? What childcare would there be? How would Naitonal deliver tax cuts while not fuelling inflation or borrowing? etc etc

These are important questions, the ansers should be part of National and the Right’s vision, and the public has a right to know what they are.
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July 13, 2007 9:35am
Porcupine

Left wing unionists have spearheaded the race to the bottom in education – bringing everyone down instead of the membership up.

I agree that National’s ability to put forward alternative policy has been abysmal. You can only survive as new SNAG on the block for so long you know.

“urban liberal female” – my wife is that – her political compass is somewhere left of Ghandi but shes banned the evening news she hates Helen that much. 🙂
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July 13, 2007 10:07am
CraigM

Nice threadjack Sam. I know you must be desperate for the Nats to give policy ideas to Labour, but it isn’t going to happen this far out from an election.

As for the performance of the Herald, what a laughing stock they are making of themselves these days.
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July 13, 2007 10:10am
CraigM

Nice threadjack Sam. I know you must be desperate for the Nats to give policy ideas to Labour, but it isn’t going to happen this far out from an election.

As for the performance of the Herald, what a laughing stock they are making of themselves these days.
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July 13, 2007 10:12am
Craig Ranapia

I hate to play the left wing unionist (it is so out of character) but didn’t Andrew Little tell you so? The EPMU warned that the quality of our papers would diminish if sub-editing jobs were outcourced…

Brendan:

Some of us mediawatchers would say the quality of the Herald’s subs bench has been less than stellar for a while. Outsourcing isn’t the issue. A subs bench that has been understaffed, undertrained and under-resourced for many years is. Still, Brenden, Andrew has his barrow to push – and is quite up front about it – so I can’t criticise him for not telling the rest of the story that doesn’t help his current campaign.
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July 13, 2007 10:44am
Peter Metcalfe

If you think the Herald was bad, you should have seen the “Garuniad” in the good ole days.
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July 13, 2007 11:40am
Pete Brooks

Obviously a NCEA qualified journalist
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July 13, 2007 11:45am
Pete Brooks

Obviously a NCEA qualified journalist
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July 13, 2007 11:51am
richgraham

Dear Julie, what an interesting series of points and questions you have made. May I clarify a few things for you ?
1. the association between the ‘working class’ and the ‘left’ in politics is ancient history, there is no such thing as the old-fashioned ‘working class’ anymore.
2. You say “Is it that right wing has no plans for the future as the left side does? Still don’t want to sound like moaner but if feminism and socialism and communism has plans …”. The absence of plans from a ‘right-wing’ agenda is a distinguishing feature of ‘conservative’ people. I want the government and politicians to ‘butt-out’ of our lives. The job of government is to protect NZ and the people, not to have plans for our future. As you know, when politicians and their ilk have ‘plans’, they’re almost always wrong. It is one of the great distinctions between ‘conservatives’ and ‘the left’ – the left have great ideas, and when implemented they always kill large numbers of people and make even more miserable – see marxism, socialism, communism, nazism ….
A conservative has no great plans for the people other than to ensure they are protected and safe. A conservative believes people should be left to get on with their lives with as little interference as possible – no plans, no great ideas.
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July 13, 2007 1:19pm
NX

richgraham said: The absence of plans from a ‘right-wing’ agenda is a distinguishing feature of ‘conservative’ people. I want the government and politicians to ‘butt-out’ of our lives. The job of government is to protect NZ and the people, not to have plans for our future. As you know, when politicians and their ilk have ‘plans’, they’re almost always wrong.

Excellent post Graham. New Zealand is a diverse place; there is no way that the left wing ‘plan’ is compatible with everyone’s ambitions & goals.
It’s up to the people to determine the direction of the country not the government. The government’s job is to ensure we’re safe & to provide us with the tools to succeed.

The government should only tax us only what is necessary to run public services & the government itself.
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July 13, 2007 2:35pm
julie

I do understand that the Government is mean’t to care for the roads and things overall that we need to have done like transport, taxes etc. And I think that most people do want to have the government butt out of their personal lives. Just see the “No smacking bill’ protests for that.

However, these left wing marxists, communists and so forth are backed by dangerous people and are working as a world wide movement. I have even heard that when we do have national in charge, we really have left wing. Left has figured that right works in a conservative way and continues to plan to expliot it.

There are people who come here from overseas who say they can’t believe the people don’t take back their rights. It is as if we think we have it so good here that we don’t rock the boat.

Every move labor makes is part of an agenda. To me it would make sense that the right has to have it’s own agenda and beaware of each move the left is making. Else we as a country are like a cripple. The left foot makes a step and the right foot steps to the side of the left foot to support it.

We are heading for terrible future this way.

We just keep losing all our power as people. I am starting to wonder whether we might need to have one of these smaller parties who are radical become the prime leaders to balance back what we have lost. We have even lost the media to leftists.
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July 13, 2007 3:12pm
Porcupine

Ok Julie, I’ll be drawn.

The truth is we have a pretty good country and a pretty stable democracy. You don’t have to worry that some government is going to get in and take us too far left or too far right and totally destroy our lifestyle. New Zealanders are one of the most caring people on the planet – we give a lot to charity probably only beaten by the US who is the highest giver.

We will always help people in need and most of the time stand up for the oppressed and downtrodden and won’t let the government take too much power off us.

Some of us like to have a bit of fun and rattle the chain or spray the kitchen cupboard to see what crawls out (if you’ve seen “Breakfast at Tiffanies”) but it doesn’t mean we hate our country or want to see it destroyed or have some hidden agenda.

So don’t worry too much, comment on the things you think are wrong, and praise the things you think are right and have a bit of fun.

OK?
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July 13, 2007 4:14pm
Muad,Dib"

Julie this blog isnt the womens refuge, toughen up,if you want the meaning of life try youtube.or (ENTER SEX) GOOGLE
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July 13, 2007 6:22pm
Manolo

The headline was a Freudian slip, I reckon.

That aside, that crook Fujimori should’ve been extradited to Peru to face the music there long, long ago. Now to add insult to injury, he’s even trying to get elected to the Japanese Parliament.

It appears the lawyers hired by the Peruvian government are dumber than Dick Hubbard!
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July 13, 2007 6:57pm
Porcupine

You mean they have less that one self inhibitory neuron in their head?
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July 13, 2007 7:35pm
julie

Porcupine,

I understand that people like yourself and by the looks of it many others here are having a bit of fun or just want to read what is going on politically. So I write this to share a bit of where I am coming from and then find another party to promote for I don’t see NZ as wonderful as you do. The country itself is beautiful and so are the people but not what is happening in politics and not what is coming. The people who are caring of others in the streets are fighting for rights and some have spent the last 20 years less/more with what they say falling on deaf ears. I won’t waste my time nor yours for that.

The crystal ball shows social engineering in many forms which is basically agendas that are being fulfilled and that most likely cannot be changed without radical change.
<a href=”http://www.nkmr.org/english/destroying_the_family_swedish_style_by_eric_brodin.htm” rel=”nofollow”>Destroying the family – Swedish style</a>
<a href=”http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/10/19/news/feminism.php” rel=”nofollow”>What comes next for feminism and equality in Sweden</a>

You can follow Ian Wishart’s stories through the ‘Insider’ to see NZ’s part in this.

You have most likely heard of International ‘White Ribbon Campaign’ to get men to stop other men from hurting women. Soon you will hear about International <a href=”http://www.mapsu.org/” rel=”nofollow”>Yellow Ribbon Campaign</a> to stop all men world wide from standing and peeing.

I am not able to find all the sites for each country that has made it illegal to stand and pee but it is Sweden, <a href=”http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/18/wpinkl18.xml” rel=”nofollow”>Germany</a>, Holland, Mexico and Japan is folling suit. The move is going through Europe and <a href=”http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52189″ rel=”nofollow”>schools are a target for our young boys</a> as we speak. Soon to be here.

Agendas for socialism, communism and feminism are plastered on the net for your enjoyment so I won’t go there but i will share what comes during feminism and socialism and communnism rule.

<a href=”http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm” rel=”nofollow”>Goal to microchip the world’s population</a> Be aware thes guys are the major funders of feminism. Other major corporations have followed suit.

Because of all the money available to fund feminism and socialism one would wonder whether we have any conservatives left as researchers and University lecturers. And thus leaders. I say leaders because it will almost soon be impossible to stand up against the mainstream.

<a href=”http://www.mises.org/story/2318″ rel=”nofollow”>Why ‘Intellectuals’ Still Support Socialism</a>

But then you still might think that this is not NZ. Surely NZ wouldn’t get like the above. But it has and with charities soon to be able to receive large amounts of funding from corporation it will move swiftly as from my research; education, women and children are the main receivers of major donations and Government money.

I won’t go on but leave you with this experience. Our group assisted the Japanese Government in a documentary about single parents because we have the highest rate in the world. To do business under APEC, UE and Northern American Union, all countries must accept feminism and socialism laws. Japan, China and Hong Kong are worried because of their population on how they will cope with this. Their divorce rates are increasing over laws and they have to make policies for the women to receive benefits, free education and what we offer here. Their families as ours will show single parents to be in a better financial position that many married couples. But then the agenda is to destroy the Patriarchy.

Hope this is not too much to read. lol
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July 15, 2007 9:44am
Porcupine

Thanks, Julie. I probqbly came across as a bit more optimistic than I really am.

I think we have to have extremists on the other side to balance up the extremists on the left. However, you do have to be careful that you don’t believe everything you say.

It looks like your group does a useful job, and I agree with you fight against anti-male fascism. I hope its main purpose isn’t just to let people out of paying their child maintence.

Cheers
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July 15, 2007 11:19am
Kent Parker

Julie,

The glass is either half full or it is half empty; it is entirely up to your preception. You have parrotted what is a common concern among posters on this blog: that somehow govts, the media and public servants have all mysteriously been brainwashed by some socialist, feminist ideology. You may wish to see it that way if you want a half empty glass. On the other hand if you want a half full glass you will see that the nuclear family is not the be all and end all of everything, in fact its success, well illustrated by my own parents and those of my children’s mother, is that the nuclear family requires the complete material subjugation of the female to the male. She was not able to have her own career and make that important vocational move for a promotion in Vancouver. She did not have control of the money (usually), had to have all purchases approved etc etc. Her job was simply to have children and look after the house plus do some menial cleaning/admin/nursing job on the sideline.

Given that prior to global warming, overpopulation was our planets most dire crisis, the men and women of this world have decided that there is more to womens’ existence than making babies, and have since enabled women to become CEOs, PMs and make that important vocational move to Vancouver. Having a man and a woman both with careers has created tension in the traditional nuclear family structure which in almost 50% of cases eventually falls apart and solo parents are created. You can describe this as destructive (glass half empty) or progressive (glass half full). Democratic governments create policies according to the wishes of the people and the creation of the DPB was a result of such a process. While some individuals make a career out of the DPB, the average recipient is a woman in her thirties who goes on it for a few months.

So, rather than ideological brainwashing, the current trends have been determined by the need to stem global overpopulation and the more that Asia, and especially China get into this trend, then the better. The western system is far more effective than China’s one child policy.

At the end of WWII Japan had 71 million. This rocketed to 120 million in 1980. Since then it rose only 7 more million by 2004 after which it has begun to decline. By contrast, at the end of WWII, the UK had 48 million, which increased by 12 million to 60 million today, a much slower rate of growth.

If a woman can escape from a position of subjugated broodmare, which is the case of most of the women in the world today in Asia, China India, Africa, and Muslim countries, then that has the effect of reducing population growth. For me it is a glass-half-full phenonemon and a sign of progress.
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July 15, 2007 11:39am
julie

Pocupine,

It is sad that you would think people like myself who volunteer their services would be anti feminism and anti socialism to get people off paying child maintenance.

But it does show how far we have come as anti males.

Anyhow, I do know that national politicians like other parties are aware we need to fight Matriarchy. When the truth all comes out those who are too scared to care for male’s rights or family’s rights will look silly. In the meantime I guess it is me and a few others willing to stand that will look silly.

But I will loosen up now and enjoy the funny side of politics when i revisit the site.
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July 15, 2007 11:50am
Porcupine

Julie, you have good points, feel free to rant. The meeting looks interesting and useful – I commend others to consider going.

Kent, some good points but a bit dated. Overpopulation is the overwhelming crisis in the world to which all others, especially global worming, pale by comparison.

But there’s got to be a better a better way to solve it than to encourage kids to have kids and make singles richer than couples.
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July 15, 2007 12:03pm
Kent Parker

As an extra, the population of China was approx 565 million in 1950. Since then it has more than doubled to 1.3 billion and that’s not counting all the illegal 2nd and 3rd children which are not supposed to be happening that have not been reported in censuses. While various laws to delay the age of first marriage and to limit family size have been put in place, the population is still increasing.
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July 15, 2007 12:04pm
julie

Kent,

You were posting at the same times as me so I missed what you were saying.

But I agree with you. What you say is correct although I do hear that not all women want to work. I don’t know the number but they like the man going to work and them taking care of the children and being able to work part time. This apprently is what Japan is showing. So Government assistance is required until women do work full time. One of laws changed in Japan was that the wife could get half of the husband’s pension and the Governemnt has tried to explain to the public that half will not cover all themales costs nor the females costs as the whole did when they were together.

What I am after exactly is a men’s affairs equal to a women’s affairs.

The UN has made a day now for fathers but this day is to promote groups around the world to teach fathers to care for their wives health and well-being and that of their girls education and well being. What about the father himself and what about the boys?

Hasn’t NZ has gone beyond what is needed in Africa and Asia and the East plus Turkey and the like? Should we not move to the next step and start givng men equal rights or at least give women equal rights in jail term and the like. The next generation here is not the same as your mother’s generation.

But I do like to look at the glass half full. It is part of my journey now especially as I have boys and since our young girls have become more of tomboys. I do think we need to protect boys from being beaten up from girls in schools. As it stands now a girl gets away with hurting boys yet boys are suspended. Much needs to be balanced as we have moved fast as a country yet other countries are behind. Fair is fair. Things have to start balancing out at some stage and I don’t believe women’s oppression for thousands of years of millions of years is fair to use as a marker. Men and women were both oppressed. IMO
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July 15, 2007 12:12pm
Kent Parker

make singles richer than couples. There are some rather wealthy single people out there such as Paul McCartney, half of Hollywood, Sheryl Crowe and half of the Platinum record selling crowd.

I am sure too that there are many ordinary single parents with kids who are better off than many couples on one income. It costs about the same to rear the same number of kids regardless of whether there are two parents or one. There is no reason why sole parents should have less income at their disposal for that task.

I agree that some men get ripped off by their partners for child support and end up worse off than the rest of their family. That is not the norm. Because shoplifting takes away 10% of a shop’s profits each year doesn’t remove the viability of opening a shop. Similarly a small percentage of men getting ripped off doesn’t invalidate the single parent system. That small percentage are the ones that Julie deals with and whose complaints she listens to the most.
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July 15, 2007 12:19pm
julie

Kent, I wonder what the statistics of men and women who get ripped off with child support is and how many men don’t pay and how many women don’t pay as per the amount of men and women who receive. But there are some very bad and sad things happening with child support and it is through IRD and the actual act.

I have to go but I will be back with some good stuff on this later. Our groups is going to do some research on this. And we want it very fair. We do care for women also.
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July 15, 2007 12:25pm
Kent Parker

Julie,

Your aims are commendable. I do think changes are happening. Men are more inclined now to open up about these things and are adopting practices previouisly frowned upon. However, there remain physiological differences between men and women. Men are stronger, have thicker skin and can handle rough and tumble that women can’t. Women are more vocal and can handle social situations that men can’t. You’re never going to have “complete equality” because there are always going to be differences.

As a male, I can tell you that men are still very much dominant in our society. If anything feminist ideology is changing the men more than the women.

What kind of men are you surrounding yourself with???
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July 15, 2007 12:28pm
Porcupine

Kent, it is a total abomination that single beneficiaries are paid more than married ones – it is against natural justice and human rights. It is social engineering pure and simple.

In addition the population control you are talking about in the west came about through the fact that two people now have to work to give their family the same standard of living as one worker could a generation ago – and the majority of that eroded standard of living is because of higher government revue take.

Much of what Julie says is correct. And the small number you talk about is not that small. In addition a small number of examples are used to keep the rest of the population in line.

Julie I wholehartedly agree with your group’s mission. If you have boys you will find them discriminated against in jobs, getting into med school, and many other areas, even if they are the most qualified. It must change.

Previous oppression is not an excuse for continuing oppression.
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July 15, 2007 12:39pm
Kent Parker

Kent, it is a total abomination that single beneficiaries are paid more than married ones

This is simply not true: http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/get-assistance/main-benefit/unemployment-benefit.html#payments

$255.65 is less than $148 times two (equals $296). While the couple benefit is less than twice the sole parent one, it assumes that the sole parent has similar expenses to the couple, the main difference being the cost of food of the extra parent, which is something in the region of $50 a week. Both types of beneficiaries have the same work, accommodation and family support entitlements. Sole parents are more eligible for special grants.

In comparison the minimum wage of $12 produces an income in the region of $350 per week, with the same entitlements received by beneficiaries still being available at much the same rate. This was the situation of the Muliaga family.

Verdict: beneficiaries, whether solo or married, get to live on bugger all.
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July 15, 2007 1:03pm
Porcupine

Kent – If two people are married or live together and are entitled to a benefit then it is their good luck that they get economies of scale. So for example married pensioners should get 2 x the single rate – anything else is an afront to human rights and dignity.

Re your verdict – you fall into the trap (or is it spin) that sickens me in benefit and pay negotions and that is quoting the base rate.

I would bet you there isnt a solo parent in the country whose yearly income is 52 x $255.65 = $13293.80 on their tax return.
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July 15, 2007 1:49pm
Kent Parker

If you have a look at the stats for that you will see that you are not far from the mark for the pension:
http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/get-assistance/main-benefit/nz-superannuation.html#applications
single $673 living alone per fortnight.
couple $511 each
This would give pensioners an “economy of scale” that other beneficiaries don’t enjoy, but then makes it hard on the remaining person after one of them dies, having to deal with a lower standard of living. Your attempt to create policy on moral grounds has as many pitfalls as the ‘scientific’ option.

You’re right, solo parents can still earn $80 a week gross before any deductions happen, are eligible for up to $120 a week in accommodation supplement (bearing in mind that rents are now $200-$300 or more for a 3 bed house -costing $10-15,000 a year) plus $80 or more per week for each child in family support, which brings it to $25,000 or more net, depending on amount of rent paid and number of children. This is the same net income that a single person with no children might expect on a gross income of $32,000 or more. A family person on $32,000 a year is also eligible for family tax credits (some $100 pw per child) and accommodation supplement if they have few cash assets, which would bring their actual net income way higher.

$32,000 is the gross income for a person on $12 an hour 40 hours a week.

Verdict: a sole parent is better off working to the tune of some $5,000 or more a year (depending on number of children) in tax credits.
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July 15, 2007 4:11pm
Porcupine

There is nothing scientific about the system we have now = it is pure based on the opposite “moral” opinion to mine – discriminating against couples. But two people can flat togethe and get the single allowance each.

I would hope an earner was on a better wichet than a non-earner. What you are saying is that a working sole parent works for $5000 p.a.

And if a school leaver wants to go to uni they get nothing but a sole parent gets the lot.
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July 15, 2007 5:04pm
julie

Kent,

you information regarding benefits is actually, ‘not right’ (I don’t like to use the wrong word, lol for it sounds worse)

A sole parent is not better off working unless they receive a good amount for child support and a good wage. I wrote an article on this and you need to consider sole parents getting cheaper medical care and prescriptions. And there is the money they are allowed for free (without paying back) from WINZ for dental, food vouchers and other things. Even WINZ staff were telling sole parents to be aware of the Governments offer as it was not as worthwhile as they promised.

Plus I know of pensioners getting less than what you are saying. But plus sole beneficiaries do not have to take out a student loan for their education. But the $80 you have written about that they can earn? That is only for them if they don’t receive any extras on their beneifts. Otherwise they pay back 70 cents in the $ to WINZ and secondary tax. Doesn’t seem worht it if they have to drive to work. lol

I think you are missing the point of what is behind all this. It started off to be a good thing (DPB) when women were getting hurt by husbands or husbands died but today it is a career all of its own and many women are here from overseas collecting it along with cheap Governemnt housing. You should hear what WINZ staff have to say about the amount of refugees here and how they DEMAND to be taken care of. They are on the housing corp list for around 3 months while NZ families are still waiting for over 4 years. Just Helen Clarke’s way of keeping control and getting votes.

But don’t take my word for it, talk to the Housing Corp staff.

On another note I wonder what your thoughts are on Marxism? Marxists thought the Opium China wars were a great thing because they say that you have to create chaos to rule the world. As we know England was trying to rule the world at the time. Didn’t happen at that time but marxists say that they way to rule the world is to create chaos using the womenfolk also.

Sounds to me that is working well and funny how feminism and marxisms is the same thing.

Child Support problems are something most ministers know is a problem but because of the huge amount of money in the billions owed on fines the governement won’t look into it. So, I will not bother to get into cases I have read or situations I hear about from clients and the like if you don’t mind. Too big a mountain at the moment.

Anyhow, i thought I would redo the links I had provided earlier for some reading if you have time since when my comment was being moderated I lost the format.

Destroying the family – Swedish style
What comes next for feminism and equality in Sweden

Yellow Ribbon Campaign

Germany,

schools are a target for our young boys

Goal to microchip the world’s population

When you check this one out, go back to the main page to see the articles on Ron Paul who is standing against Bush but I think in Mexico? He is open about all this sort of thing in his speeches and media statements.

Why ‘Intellectuals’ Still Support Socialism

Hopefull this has worked.
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July 15, 2007 5:18pm
julie

I don’t think it will work because it has to wait moderation again. That is what made it all haywire in the first place.

Oh, well. Maybe this will work.

http://www.nkmr.org/english/destroying_the_family_swedish_style_by_eric_brodin.htm

http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/10/19/news/feminism.php

http://www.mapsu.org/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/18/wpinkl18.xml

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52189

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52189

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm

http://www.mises.org/story/2318

Gosh, what alot of effort. But it has been nice discussing this with you, Pocupine and Kent. Thanx. Good to hear what you think and share what I think.
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July 15, 2007 5:27pm
Porcupine

Julie, I have said on this blog that women have a very strong sense of justice and will eventually save us from our misery – I think you are living proof of that! – thanks!

Your links still dont seem to work so I am giving it a go:

http://www.nkmr.org/english/destroying_the_family_swedish_style_by_eric_brodin.htm
Destroying the family – Swedish style
http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/10/19/news/feminism.php
What comes next for feminism and equality in Sweden
http://www.mapsu.org/
Yellow Ribbon Campaign
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/18/wpinkl18.xml
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52189
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm
http://www.mises.org/story/2318
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July 15, 2007 5:49pm
Kent Parker

Julie,

I am simply stating the bare facts as supplied by govt websites. How individual case managers might interpret them from time to time is not something that can be easily documented in a balanced fashion. WFF was designed to make it more worthwhile to be in employment, and the 20 hours’ of “free” childcare is another extension of it.

The refugee situation is something entirely different and unrelated to problems with the welfare state as a domestic institution. It is an immigration issue.

Unfortunately Kiwiblog doesn’t appear to be configured to enable external links to work, so it is a bit of a chore to look at the links. I checked out two and they confirm that you are choosing rather dubious/radical/oddstuff sources to ask me to read. You cannot expect me to take stuff such as “Mothers against peeing standing up” seriously. This is comic book material and is likely to get laughed off the stage, which it will do in the Norway example.

Are you sure you are not being mislead by the most unusual and extreme examples of the great multitude of human situations out there? That seems to be what MENZ is all about, too. Kiwiblog is much, much broader in the kinds of ideas floated here.
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July 15, 2007 8:53pm
Kent Parker

Julie

Next time you put links in just enter the url like I did with no fancy extras, then we can click on them and go straight to them. The way you have done them has them enclosed in a kiwiblog url.
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July 15, 2007 8:55pm
Kent Parker

There is nothing scientific about the system we have now = it is pure based on the opposite “moral” opinion to mine – discriminating against couples. But two people can flat togethe and get the single allowance each.

If you go back to the stats:
http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/get-assistance/main-benefit/unemployment-benefit.html#payments
a couple gets $296 pw for the UEB
two singles over 25 get $356 pw between them. The difference is $60 pw. It’s not a life changing amount. It is assumed that a couple have it together enough to make $60 worth of cost savings per week becausethey share stuff, like a bedroom, for instance. Given that a room in a flat these days is seldom shy of $100 pw that is a considerable cost benefit.

I would hope an earner was on a better wichet than a non-earner. What you are saying is that a working sole parent works for $5000 p.a.

I am saying that a sole parent is better off working. It may only amount to $5000 per year in relation to the DPB, but on that income, that is a lot of money. This was the whole impetus behind WFF, but unfortunately for Labour they weren’t able to communicate it very well and a whole lot of other things such as house, petrol and other price increases have taken the shine off it.

Trying to work full time and be the main caregiver for children is no holiday in the sun.
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July 15, 2007 9:06pm
Porcupine

“Trying to work full time and be the main caregiver for children is no holiday in the sun.”

That is why we should stop discriminating against couples. The first step is to allow earners to spread their income over their dependents for tax purposes. Kills two birds with one stone.
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July 15, 2007 10:28pm
julie

Kent,

Yes, I am now a radical. I haven’t taken everything i read to heart because I know that the things men and women complain about are really much the same. But i have spent a very lot of time invistigating what I have learn’t from Universities to underground gansters to people with alot of knowledge and travel. I understand why we have problems with the Family Court and I understand that professional groups on a global level get together trying to sort them out.

The way I look at things is that many times through history people have said the same as you and I have some others who are similar. It will all work itself out. These insane people will not get what they want. But then I bet that is what the Jews thought and why many stayed in Germany when Hiitler was moving up the ranks.

We expect Gang members and other underground gangsters to be organised and to be strategicly playing the games of takeover and if they find they are better to band with other gangs they will. The same is for those above. All throughout history we can see that plotting to take over and rule is real.

It is nice to think that someone else will do something that will change things but sometimes that other person has to be YOU.
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July 15, 2007 11:15pm

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