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November 17, 2007 11:59am by David Farrar

General Debate 17 November 2007

Enjoy the weekend.

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davemc

The other day I mentioned in conversation that in Saudi Arabia, women
who were raped were brutally punished by the courts. I don’t think I
was believed.

These are today’s headlines:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7098480.stm

It is the appalling story of a gang-rape victim, aged 19, in Saudi
Arabia who was sentenced to 60 lashes. When she appealed, the judges
increased the sentence to 200 lashes.

This is the true face of evil, perpetrated by one of the most vile
and evil regimes in the world.
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November 17, 2007 12:02pm
Spam

I remember when some NZer was sentenced to 30 lashes (or thereabouts) for drug using, and the media reports were that 30 could kill him. I would think that 200 probably will kill her.
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November 17, 2007 12:09pm
Lee C

From the Very Double Standard: (by Toms)

“Well first reports in of the outraged anti-EFB masses surging down Queen street put their number at “as many as 2000.”

Mind you the Herald will probably add a zero to that on Monday.

2000 people, a pile of whom are out of town carpetbaggers according to RNZ. Despite the perfect weather (what would have happened if it rained?). Despite Granny Herald getting DPF/National Party HQ to write their editorials for them and running a partisan scare campaign for a week.

I’ve said all along the shrill extremism of DPF and the hollow men who pul his strings this issue has no reasonance with fair minded Kiwi’s.

Our out of touch, ideologically extremist and hysterical white right blogging community have believed their own propaganda. Again.

Well first reports in of the outraged anti-EFB masses surging down Queen street put their number at “as many as 2000.”

Mind you the Herald will probably add a zero to that on Monday.

2000 people, a pile of whom are out of town carpetbaggers according to RNZ. Despite the perfect weather (what would have happened if it rained?). Despite Granny Herald getting DPF/National Party HQ to write their editorials for them and running a partisan scare campaign for a week.

I’ve said all along the shrill extremism of DPF and the hollow men who pul his strings this issue has no reasonance with fair minded Kiwi’s.

Our out of touch, ideologically extremist and hysterical white right blogging community have believed their own propaganda. Again.”
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November 17, 2007 12:16pm
slightlyrighty

I have read the early reports of the protest over the EFB in Auckland.

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=127617

Given GWW and Roger Nomes estimates, can I ask how they got the figure so wrong?

Or do they work for treasury?
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November 17, 2007 12:16pm
Lee C

sorry for the double up.
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November 17, 2007 12:17pm
Lee C

From RNZ – “PM told Election Finance Bill is facist
17/11/2007 12:04:02

Queen Street in Auckland has been brought to a standstill today, with a crowd estimated at more than two thousand marching against the Electoral Finance Bill.

Helen Clark is being told her proposals are fascist and unwanted. Protest organiser John Boscawen wants the Prime Minister to kill the Bill, which will put a caps on spending by lobby groups during an election year.

Members of the Law Society, political parties and the Sensible Sentencing Trust are angry Labour’s trying to push through the legislation without consultation.

Members of the migrant community on the march say they came to New Zealand to escape dictatorship, and some have likened Miss Clark to Adolf Hitler.”
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November 17, 2007 12:18pm
Camryn

davemc – That is truely horrible. There are many horrible regimes in the world, but at least most of them make sense. I can at least understand a dictator or ruling class who want power and uses the state to kill to get it, but I can’t understand it when they kill for no good reason. I just can’t get my head around why certain strains of Middle Eastern culture can consider a woman 100% culpable for being ‘tempting’ and not consider men even 1% culpable for controlling the extent to which he is ‘tempted’.
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November 17, 2007 12:19pm
Camryn

And as much as I don’t want to divert attention from davemc’s issue, I couldn’t help but post this quote for ya’ll to enjoy or discuss:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” – C.S.Lewis
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November 17, 2007 12:21pm
Redbaiter

The point about the numbers is that they are real people expressing real and honest concerns.

Anyone (like Matt McCarten or ANSWER or Global Peace and Justice) can round up a bunch of mindless chanting rent a crowd worthless bolshevik commies expressing fake concern about some fake issue and really just working to further their Marxist/ extreme left agenda.

These are real people. This is a real protest.
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November 17, 2007 12:22pm
Redbaiter

An issue I found amusing. Texas oilman T Boone Pickens offers $1 million in cold hard cash to anyone who can prove that the claims made by the Swift Boat veterans against John Kerry (during his run for president) are untrue.

No takers. All the bluster and outrage from the left/ Kerry supporters. All the hate and venom against the Swift Boat veterans. No takers on the $1 million. Turns out that as usual, the left were attacking the truth.
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November 17, 2007 12:26pm
Redbaiter

Great quote Camryn. It springs to mind often, mostly when I think of leftists and their sick religion of socialism that they impose upon everybody.
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November 17, 2007 12:31pm
gee90

At today’s protest who was speaking for National? Was John Key there?
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November 17, 2007 12:51pm
side show bob

It seems the world of physics is in a huff. A surfer dude has written a paper on the theory of everything or a unifing theory. This is been likened to finding the holy grail. Many who understand this stuff are taking it seriously. And here was I thinking the socialists new everything or thought they did. If interested go to telegraph.co.uk.
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November 17, 2007 12:51pm
vto

side show bob, now that is something! Being a surfer myself I can understand how he has a clear mind which would allow something like this to expand inside.

a bit of mindless mindlessness and an unlikely story – believe it or not I came up with a theory when I was 15 that if the world stopped spinning everything would be bigger. But of course nobody would notice (except somebody or thing off the planet) because everything would be in proportion. When I was in Australia’s outback some years later and after completing a BSc I realised that the thing I had thought was actually a version of the theory of relativity, which einstein of course was responsible for. For some writings some day.

this stuff is surely impossible to politicise. unless witches start to be burned at the stake again, ha ha
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November 17, 2007 1:31pm
john

If i want to march and protest ,next year ,(i WILL march and protest if i feel the need ) and some pathetic witch isnt going to stop me . My dad didnt fight for this ,country so that our lying pm can act like the dictator in Pakistan . J
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November 17, 2007 1:50pm
davemc

He obviously didn’t fight so you could learn some basic literacy either
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November 17, 2007 2:05pm
Jim

Sorry to bring up something vomit-inducing, but this when I read about this case it points to a very big hole in the “justice” system:

Man on bail when he murdered toddler

“The largest bruises were on Aaliyah’s abdomen and buttocks, in both cases covering almost the entire areas and extending across her groin.

X-rays and CT scans had revealed the 2-year-old also suffered internal injuries, including brain and abdominal injuries, torn retinas in her eyes, and a fractured forearm.”

Now I know a lot of you will say that this is exactly how a fair and just system needs to work. You will say it is an example of how bail is supposed to work, and how juries should not be prejudiced by knowing of a defendant’s violent past.

Perhaps you’d like to see him given a concurrent sentence and released early (as long as he doesn’t move in next door, right?)

I’d say it is clear that this guy does not deserve any respect, and he is a shining example of a waste of space. It is a shame how much we will spend to keep this guy alive until he is released to offend again.

Is there a difference between “reasonable doubt” and “no doubt”? Should “no doubt” carry a stronger sentence?
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November 17, 2007 2:13pm
john

Nice one ,davemc,having a good day,i am.J
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November 17, 2007 2:18pm
MrHappy

Redbaiter, I just Googled the facts of your post above, and you might have bolted out of the box a bit quick on that one.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2007/11/kerry-takes-a-s.html

Seems Kerry is going to front it himself…

MrHappy
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November 17, 2007 2:58pm
Jim

Ah, I see DPF already liked to the Curran case in the “18,000 cases” post.
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November 17, 2007 3:00pm
sicoff

“If i want to march and protest ,next year ,(i WILL march and protest if i feel the need ) and some pathetic witch isnt going to stop me . My dad didnt fight for this ,country so that our lying pm can act like the dictator in Pakistan . J”

you’ll march for the right to call women witches ? really ?

actually I think can still do that under the proposed legislation being publicly debated in the media on the net and now even in the streets and voted upon in a democratically elected parliament.

what a silly thing to do… comparing new zealand to pakistan… you are a buffoon john…
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November 17, 2007 3:20pm
dad4justice

A witch called me and my family ” feral inbreds ” while we were residents on the South Islands West Coast . My children were extremely upset by the unfair comments from a Prime Minister !! I was disgusted in her !!
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November 17, 2007 3:27pm
Nick C

Did people read about how Scots College threatened to ban a student from external exams for growing a moustache? I found it rather ammusing.
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November 17, 2007 3:53pm
hinamanu

“I remember when some NZer was sentenced to 30 lashes (or thereabouts) for drug using, and the media reports were that 30 could kill him. I would think that 200 probably will kill her.”

They don’t apply the entire 200 at once.

Its done over a period of months.
she’s going to have to heal and face it over and over till its completed.

The hope is probably she will commit suicide.

Unfortunately, she has no oil in her back yard to attract US interest.
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November 17, 2007 4:24pm
davemc

They don’t apply the entire 200 at once. Its done over a period of months.

Oh, that’s OK then.
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November 17, 2007 4:52pm
Redbaiter

“Seems Kerry is going to front it himself…”

Hhaha, yeah sure. That commie fuckwit couldn’t front a Punch and Judy show..
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November 17, 2007 5:02pm
hinamanu

“They don’t apply the entire 200 at once. Its done over a period of months.

Oh, that’s OK then.”

Don’t be a Mc Dick Davemc
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November 17, 2007 5:07pm
MrHappy

Redbaiter: Your opinion as may be, Kerry is now on record with the following:

Kerry wrote that he “would be more than happy to travel to Dallas to meet with you in a mutually agreed upon public forum, or would invite you to join me in Massachusetts for a public dialogue.”

As yet, no word from the big talking Texan. Your gracious response to being shown to be somewhat wrong above doesn’t quite encapsulate the fact that the silence is on the side of those extending the bet, not the side being called liars.

All the same, please keep monitoring it and let us all know when Pickens responds to Kerry. It should be interesting to see what transpires if a public debate does ensue – I confess to not being totally up with the play on the whole ‘Swift Boat’ affair, it being the domain of a bygone candidate in a bygone election.

MrHappy
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November 17, 2007 5:51pm
baxter

JIM….Its all sickening,,,The Judge who bailed this cretin seems to have given himself name suppression……Mr Happy I am sure Bill OReilly on Fox News would be willing to act as moderater. If you watch ‘The Factor’ you will get nothing but the truth in a fair and balanced style.
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November 17, 2007 7:38pm
hinamanu

“If you watch ‘The Factor’ you will get nothing but the truth in a fair and balanced style.”

If the ‘Factor’ is Fox, you gotta be joking.

Fox claimed Democrats were converting to the Republicans enmasse.

To the most unpopular president in US history (not to mention very probably illegal).

A woman team of Bridge players competing in China, upon their victory, waved a paper claiming they never voted for Bush.

Who has ever done something like that before, let alone a prim and proper middle aged woens Bridge team ?
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November 17, 2007 8:37pm
Redbaiter

“All the same, please keep monitoring it and let us all know when Pickens responds to Kerry.”

WTF are you on about? Why would Pickens or anyone need to “respond” to Kerry. All Kerry needs to do is, once he has gathered said “evidence” present it in any public arena. He won’t do it. Because there’s no such evidence and because he’s just another spineless leftist bullshitter.
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November 17, 2007 9:16pm
John Dalley

Oh how sad. National slipping in the polls again. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk.
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November 17, 2007 11:50pm
john

polls taken at the labour party conferance/fistfight, dont count,
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November 18, 2007 6:28am
john

PS has anyone noticed that the witch was at the netball, and we lost again.Someone should ban claark nee davis , from national sporting events ,as shes a lossier and it rubs off on our sporting teams ,,,rugby, league ,netball, etc etc ,shes BAD news at any sporting event.infact anywhere.
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November 18, 2007 6:42am
sicoff

john Says:

November 18th, 2007 at 6:42 am
PS has anyone noticed that the witch was at the netball, and we lost again.Someone should ban claark nee davis , from national sporting events ,as shes a lossier and it rubs off on our sporting teams ,,,rugby, league ,netball, etc etc ,shes BAD news at any sporting event.infact anywhere.

you are a dick!
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November 18, 2007 7:15am
davemc

The Saudi regime is the most vile and barbaric in the world today and has been since the demise of the Taleban regime in Afghanistan in 2002.

No other regime on earth comes close to it for its combination of
medieval barbarity, abuse of human rights, denigration and abuse of
women, cruel and unusual punishments, utter lack of democracy and
independent justice system, utter lack of freedom of expression and
freedom of religion, and so on and so on.

Saudi Arabia also finances much of the world’s Islamic extemism, and
indeed, all but a few of the September 11 hijackers were from Saudi
Arabia and Osama bin Laden himself is Saudia Arabian and a wealthy
member of one of that country’s major industrial companies.

That country is so corrupt that one of its parasitic princes last week
bought an Airbus A380 for his private plane because his 747-400 wasn’t
big enough for his ego, while women are flogged for being raped and
hapless accused criminals who are frequently denied even a defence
lawyer are beheaded in public squares for the amusement of the (male)
populace.
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November 18, 2007 12:18pm
john

Good comment (you are a dick) socoff, we have had a great year in sport and every thing else Havent we , ( WE ARE THE BEST), ,I today tried to think of any good thing the govt has done for my family in the last 8 years (only my wife and myself now), there was NOTHING ,,zero, stuff all opps my wife did learn what its like to lie on a trolley in a passageway for 16 hours with a broken leg, waiting for a bed. But have a damn good weekend , i have been doing my sport (to the best of my abilities. ) sorry for the bad grammar , the bright left dont like it ,
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November 18, 2007 2:27pm
john

davemc great post , the sunni majority in the saud kingdom need their collective heads smashed, Shit rape a lady then because the primative legal system says a lady isnt allowed to be unescortered and in a car AND ALSO COMPLAINTS TO LOUDLY, therefore, rape and pillage and whipping is allowed BUT DAVEMC have you seen helen davis the WITCH shouting from the roof tops ,NO NO, this sexless thing DOSNT give a shit (OPPS OILS INVOLVED) so davemc,great post so watch the whipping on youtube. this is life dave, live with it,and dont abuse me???
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November 18, 2007 5:31pm
john

ps Mr Farrar am i 20+20 =40 or as the left say YOU STUFFED UP MR Farrar.IS its 20 +20=70(new labour math) figures are easy to twist ,hell the govt finds a spare billion every other day, not that im losing sleep but IF YOU stuff up ,Mr Farrar what can we believe in (mrs davis)
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November 18, 2007 8:13pm

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