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February 20, 2008 4:13pm by David Farrar

Nice Cartoon

A nice cartoon from Mike Moreu. He now just needs to add Winston on!

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Moreu on Winston
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Comments (39)

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TJCO

Smirk…
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February 20, 2008 4:14pm
Tane

How do you think we should depict National’s secret donors, who funded the party to the tune of $2m in 2005? Oh no, that’s right, we can’t, because we still don’t know who they are.

What policies did National sell for their $2m? What posts do these mysterious donors expect in exchange?

Was the Insurance Council or its members, with whom National agreed not to release key details of its ACC policy, a donor? And is that why National agreed to effectively privatise ACC?

The only reason we’re talking about Glenn is because he’s disclosed his contributions. Before National gets on its high horse I’d like to see some answers to my questions.

[DPF: I agree it was laudable Glenn’s 2004/05 donation was public. I support donations over $10K a year being made public. But if Glenn did notate anonymously to NZF after donating publicly to Labour, well why would you do that?]
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February 20, 2008 4:18pm
pushmepullu

My problem with Moreu as an artist is that he always insults his viewer’s intelligence just a little.

I mean, cartoons are supposed to be easy to figure out, but is it really necessary to have OWEN GLENN CASH FOR LABOUR written on that sack? If it just had a ‘$’ sign on it, or the word ‘CASH’, wouldn’t it be just as obvious?

Cartoonists who feel the need to write big lengthy blurbs explaining what’s going on might want to be columnists instead.
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February 20, 2008 4:19pm
TJCO

Spin it all you like Tane, public perception of this is that Labour is crooked as.
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February 20, 2008 4:21pm
Tane

<i>public perception</i>

Agreed, and that’s what I expect when the Herald is willing to run baseless accusations from National as the lead story on its website.

National’s put in a good smear, no doubt. It’s what they do best. Like Bill English said, it leaves a bad smell, and that’s precisely what he was out to do from the start.

That doesn’t mean National’s right or that they have any credibility on the issue.

[DPF: This is fascinating. What part is baseless and how do you know it is baseless? Glenn has said on the record he has donated to other political parties. NZ First has said they received a large anon donation (at the same time they were railing against them). It is a logical question to be asked is whether Glenn was the donor. So if Tane says it is a basless accusation that suggests he knows who the donor was or at least that it definitely wasn’t Glenn?]
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February 20, 2008 4:24pm
TJCO

And you don’t think it leaves a bad smell? Lol…
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February 20, 2008 4:27pm
slightlyrighty

Tane.

Do you think it might be possible that people support National financially because of its policies?

Who offered to recompense the Maori Party if they conformed to certain political choices? Who would be the beneficiary of those choices? Which individual had those sort of cash resources. Who gave 500k to Labour? Who loaned Labour 100k interest free? Who gave an anonymous donation to NZ First? Who has said that they donate to more parties than just Labour?

Bugger me……I’m channelling Nicky Hagar!
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February 20, 2008 4:29pm
Ryan Sproull

Tane,

They don’t say do what we do. They say do what we say you say we should do.
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February 20, 2008 4:29pm
cubit9f

Tane,

Why is that you always see instant evil in anything said by anyone other than your beloved Labour party.

However, you are totally unable to concede that much of what we hearing about Labour antics is as bad as the acts that offend you so much when allegedly perpetrated by National.

Methinks you are guilty of very selective morality in order to score a few cheap points. You have suceeded. They are indeed very few and ridiculousy cheap.
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February 20, 2008 4:34pm
vto

I agree cubitfull.

Tane, you should be living in canterbury with your one eye.

It taints your cred, no matter how valid your occasional point may be.
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February 20, 2008 4:36pm
toms

Hmmm, so how much of a wage cut will you guys expect when John Key gets elected?
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February 20, 2008 4:39pm
Tane

<i>[DPF: This is fascinating. What part is baseless and how do you know it is baseless? Glenn has said on the record he has donated to other political parties. NZ First has said they received a large anon donation (at the same time they were railing against them). It is a logical question to be asked is whether Glenn was the donor. So if Tane says it is a basless accusation that suggests he knows who the donor was or at least that it definitely wasn’t Glenn?]</i>

It’s baseless because there’s no evidence. That’s why in the other thread I asked if you were behind National’s $2m of secret donations. If National’s going to start getting wound up about anonymous donors then they should be prepared to come clean about their own.

[DPF: Well Mr Glenn has just given a very large hint he is the donor so I don’t think that is very baseless.]
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February 20, 2008 4:41pm
gd

Alas DPF as I have posted elsewhere no political party looks good over this matter. All are tarred with the same brush because none have followed good governance principles.

And thats whats at stake here So far the posters here and elsewhere have just been trying to justify the indefensible.

Bad govenrnace is bad governance no matter how its wrapped up.

I want too see good governance Transperancey Disclosure Are these concepts really too hard for NZ politicans If they are then I want them all to Foxtrot Oscar because none of them represent me.

And I humbly submit that a lot of citizens are gonna feel the same come election 08.

Sick and tried of lying cheating scum bags who cant tell the truth to save themselves.

What we need is a dose of the Agean stables A big sluice out with the power hose and I volunteer to hose the nozzle right up close to their cheating arses
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February 20, 2008 4:44pm
3-coil

Poor wee Tane – desperately defending the Standard’s corrupt paymaster, the NZ Labour party.

Tane, feel the urge yet to come clean about the funding of your shitty little blog? Or are you receiving undisclosed $$$$ from Owen Glenn too?
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February 20, 2008 4:45pm
vto

you’re twisting by the pool tane.

It is labours and peters position on the entire electoral funding law and their apparent acts contrary to that position, that is the question.

The public aren’t stupid. And they have noses that can smell a rat.
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February 20, 2008 4:47pm
burt

Tane

Once again here we are. The simple question you will never answer is about to be asked again.

If you take the approach that Labour have done nothing worse than National then do we now say “move on” it’s OK because it wasn’t just Labour or do we say “investigate both througherly”.

Next time there is a riot and looting and Police arrest dozens of people just one of them could say “other were also doing it” and do you think they would all be let off or do you think they would all be prosecuted?
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February 20, 2008 4:47pm
slightlyrighty

Tane. It is a question worth asking.

On a circumstantial level it does not look good. In politics that is sufficient. Labour, NZ first and even yourself need to come up with evidence to disprove these assertions even more than DPF or myself need to come up with evidence to prove these assertions.

However, what I and many others are saying is that these issues need more investigation to uncover the facts. These allegations are patently not baseless as you suggest.

If Owen Glenn was the possible doner of 250k to the Maori Party dependant on a formal coalition with labour, and he had the means to do so as well as the motivation, did he also donate to NZ first and to what end?

Were there any caveats to his financial support to Labour? Was mentions in the honour system and a honorary consul position part of the deal? He certainly does not need money, but in Monaco, status is king.
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February 20, 2008 4:50pm
Tane

burt, Audrey’s article was about baseless accusations that Owen Glenn had donated to NZ First. It’s nothing to do with Labour.

btw, NZPA’s clicked that this scandal is little more than an opportunistic beatup from the Nats:

<blockquote>Why would a billionaire who lives in Monaco want to come back and be a Labour Party backbencher, even if he had been told he might one day be lucky enough to become the minister of transport?

That’s just one of the bizarre issues in the increasingly unsustainable row the National Party is stoking up over Owen Glenn.

The Owen Glenn Fiasco isn’t a scandal, and National probably knows that. But it is doing a good job pretending Labour is immersed in another unsavoury situation.</blockquote>

[DPF: That was written before this latest revelation I bet]
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February 20, 2008 4:52pm
philu

the nattys must think we are all feckin’ stoopid..if they think we forget the anonymous millions that ‘buy’ them/have ‘bought’ them over the years..

(i see key promised the kerikeri businessmens blah blah..that under national..there’d be a push for lower wages/to keep wages down..

(i thought i’d report that for you..dpf..you seem to have missed it..eh..?..your welcome..!..)

i wonder which of the seven faces of key he had on that day..eh..?

not so much ‘hollow-man’..as chameleon-man..

‘lower wages’..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 20, 2008 4:53pm
burt

Tane

burt, Audrey’s article was about baseless accusations that Owen Glenn had donated to NZ First. It’s nothing to do with Labour.

Ha ha ha, nothing to do with Labour, only the same donor and one of their coalition partners… ha ha ha
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February 20, 2008 4:54pm
burt

Tane

If you take the approach that Labour have done nothing worse than National then do we now say “move on” it’s OK because it wasn’t just Labour or do we say “investigate both througherly” ?

Come on Tane, see if you can at least acknowledge that the majority of your posts are based on the childish “others did it too” logic to justify acts done by Labour that you think are unacceptable from National.
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February 20, 2008 4:56pm
Whaleoil

Not so baseless now Tane, Audrey has just updated the post with a confirmation that Glenn indeed did donate to NZ First and a categoric denial of the bribe to the MP.

Care to withdraw your scurrilous insinuations?
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February 20, 2008 4:57pm
Whaleoil

UPDATE 4.35pm: Owen Glenn this afternoon has strongly hinted that he gave New Zealand First the large anonymous donation that appeared in its bank account in December.

But he categorically denies having offered the Maori Party $250,000 at the last election for going with Labour.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/blog/story.cfm?c_id=1501219&objectid=10493529&pnum=2
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February 20, 2008 4:58pm
PaulL

Tane, what does anonymous mean? How can you buy policies when you donate anonymously? Do you have evidence of illegal acts?

You’re trying frantically to divert attention from Labour being caught with their hands in the till. It won’t work. “They did it too” isn’t a valid excuse, even if it were true. You revelled in the dirt when it was being thrown at National, what goes around comes around. You are wasting your time trying to brush the dirt off, it seems to be very sticky.
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February 20, 2008 4:59pm
Tane

The article doesn’t seem the bear that out Whale, but regardless, I’m not saying he didn’t donate to NZ First, just that Audrey published her original article without any evidence and the Herald saw it fit to publish on the front page. I’ve got this old-fashioned belief that journalists should base their stories on evidence rather than publishing innuendo and hoping it pans out.

[Richard Nixon would agree with you. Those scummy Washington Post journalists had no proof when they first ran their stories]
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February 20, 2008 5:00pm
burt

Whaleoil

So he confirms the things that can be traced…. Oh dear this is looking so bad!

I smell a snap election, Muldoon all over again.
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February 20, 2008 5:00pm
Tane

<i>Tane, what does anonymous mean? How can you buy policies when you donate anonymously?</i>

Because everyone knows ‘anonymous’ donations are nothing of the sort.

[DPF: But Dail says he tried very hard to trace it]
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February 20, 2008 5:01pm
TJCO

ha ha lol…hey if Tane says its baseless, its baseless ok. Otherwise he’ll tell you to “Lift your game”
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February 20, 2008 5:03pm
Whaleoil

Oh bullshit Tane and you know it. It is clear they were not baseless allegations. Audrey had the goods and was clearly seeing if anyone would blink.

Glenn blinked and has now dropped Winston in it.

Stop your shameless defense of an obviously venal, corrupt and self-serving government. I thought you were better than that.
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February 20, 2008 5:03pm
Buggerlugs

No Whale, he’s not and never has been better than that. And now I hope the scum sucking bottomfeeder and his politics get their arse kicked for the next nine months, before sinking into oblivion.
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February 20, 2008 5:07pm
SPC

Mr Glenn provides another reason why some Election Finance (and party funding) rules had to change.

Transparency International stated quite clearly anonymous donations was not a good look here.

As to what I would have done – I would had all donations over $1000 (within any one year) made to a political party public knowledge. And I suppose one could add, all loans over $20,000.

Parties could then be questioned whether they made any committments in return for any funding.

Public disclosure works best in keeping the system accountable.

Otherwise, I would look to return parties back to membership funding. Allowing what is called matching funds – up to $100pa membership due to be matched by a taxpayer contribution. If a party raised via 10,000 members $100 each – they would have a million and via matching funds 2 million etc. This would reduce party relaince on donors who are not party members and even members who were poor could handle the $100 amount.

The other problem of 2005 to resolve was third party group involvement and the resort to “indepndent” negative campaigns to get around the party spending caps on support for parties – this is not an easy thing to legislate for, as we can all agree.
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February 20, 2008 5:10pm
Rex Widerstrom

He now just needs to add Winston on!

Are you having trouble with your vision, DPF?

The horses’s ass seems quite clearly in the picture to me.
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February 20, 2008 5:30pm
The Double Standard

Tane sez “I’ve got this old-fashioned belief that journalists should base their stories on evidence rather than publishing innuendo and hoping it pans out.”

A pity that you can’t follow you own beliefs isn’t it?

You have no compunction is spreading innuendo about the Nat’s anonymous donors, or that DPF is somehow connected with any research unit.

Still I guess you’re not a journalist so its OK eh?
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February 20, 2008 5:42pm
John Dalley

ANyone confirm if Dail Jones stood for or was a National MP in the past?
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February 20, 2008 8:16pm
Interested Party

I believe he was John – but then so was Winston a Nat MP in a former life
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February 20, 2008 9:00pm
PaulL

Tane, are you saying that the Labour party illegally knows who their anonymous donors are, and that you have proof of that? You should take that to the police, otherwise you’d be aiding and abetting a crime.

I’m presuming (given your links to the Labour party) that you are unlikely to know who National’s anonymous donors are, and that if you did, you would have gone to the police already. You clearly state that anonymous donors aren’t really anonymous, and I can readily understand that you would be in a position to know that for a fact about Labour’s anonymous donations.
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February 20, 2008 9:01pm
Rex Widerstrom

Dail Jones was a National Party MP from 1975 till 1984. MP for Helensville I think.

Odd he’s mates with Winston, considering he was close to Quigley and Richardson and plotted to roll Muldoon, Winston’s mentor.

Muldoon, however, dismissed him as “Spike Jones” – a not-so-subtle reference to the fact he annoyed one constituent enough to get stabbed in the chest.
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February 20, 2008 9:06pm
John Dalley

Thanks Interestted and Rex. Was just curious and could not remember. He was a local body polititian out this way at some stage, Waitakere orRodney areas (Can’t Remember) but he was a useless twit then and that has not obviously improved.
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February 20, 2008 10:02pm
Alces

Honorary consul for monies.

They knew there was no real need to cover their tracks.

In a week it’s fish and chip wrapping.
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February 20, 2008 11:21pm

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