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May 1, 2008 11:12am by David Farrar

It’s hard being Labour

To celebrate May Day, we have another reader video, showing how hard it is to be Labour.

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Comment47

NZ Politics
David Benson-Pope
David Cunliffe
Helen Clark
Labour
Lianne Dalziel
Michael Cullen
Trevor Mallard
You Tube

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Comments (47)

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slightlyrighty

One question.

What is the difference between misleading and untrue? It seems that from that video, Helen is happy to mislead the public so long as they are not lied to?

And in what context is misleading not lying?
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May 1, 2008 11:19am
Tane

More personal attacks from the National Party eh?
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May 1, 2008 11:19am
Johnboy

From Wikipedia: “The May Queen is also known as The Maiden, Fertility goddess or the goddess of the spring (season), flower bride, Queen of the Elves, and the lady of the flowers.

The May Queen is a symbol of the stillness of nature around which everything revolves. She embodies purity, strength and the potential for growth, as the plants grow in May. She is one of many personifications of the energy of the earth, fertility and feminity.”

I guess Helen is not the Queen of the May then.
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May 1, 2008 11:20am
Pascal

Tane: More personal attacks from the National Party eh?

Yeah, those nasty rich prick haters and wreckers!
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May 1, 2008 11:25am
Adam

Yes Tane, it’s all part of the vast right wing conspiracy. We know who you are and where you live. We have kidnapped your letter box and if you want it back you will stfu. Apart from that I thought that was one of better ones. The bit about the billboards is very funny.
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May 1, 2008 11:32am
Fabt3

Tane
What is personal about it?
Where is the attack?
Is this not just a compilation of file footage?
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May 1, 2008 11:32am
Murray

Hey Tane. Diddums.
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May 1, 2008 11:35am
Murray

Wanker.
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May 1, 2008 11:36am
Johnboy

Further from Wikipedia: “According to popular British folklore, the tradition once had a sinister twist, in that the May Queen was put to death once the festivities were over.” Substitute “Election defeat” for “Put to death” and maybe she is the Queen of the May cause the festivities are certainly over now.
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May 1, 2008 11:37am
getstaffed

… I guess Helen is not the Queen of the May then

Hilarious!
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May 1, 2008 11:37am
roger nome

“More personal attacks from the National Party eh?”

No Tane! I think you’ll find that in this case it’s just good-natured humor. The right never indulges in personal attacks. The case of Karl Rove proves that.
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May 1, 2008 11:38am
JamesP

Personal attacks from National? Looked more like a montage of Labour goons shooting themselves in the foot to me.
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May 1, 2008 11:39am
Bevan

Yeah, those nasty rich prick haters and wreckers!

Don’t forget cancerous and corrosive….
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May 1, 2008 11:40am
Manolo

“More personal attacks from the National Party eh?”

FLG Tane, have you become a delicate and sensitive PC person these days? Notice I avoid the gender specific term: man.
What has happenned to your robust and sturdy sense of humour?
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May 1, 2008 11:45am
Johnboy

“Don’t forget cancerous and corrosive….”——-Little creeps. ( Strange a cockroach calling someone a little creep).
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May 1, 2008 11:45am
capills_enema

And socialistic and overlord… erm… ish
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May 1, 2008 11:45am
Bevan

More personal attacks from the National Party eh?

Gee Tane, have you seen the Standard lately?
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May 1, 2008 11:52am
big bruv

And the hits just keep on coming!
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May 1, 2008 11:58am
dime

i dont consider this personal attacks as such.. more pointing out that these people have continued to lie over a number of years.

i know lefties dont belive in personal responsibility but some of us do.

is it really a personal attack to show a video of someone admitting they “mislead” the public? i would have thought doing that would cast doubt on their ability to govern…
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May 1, 2008 11:59am
David Farrar

Tane is trolling- ignore him.
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May 1, 2008 12:00pm
dime

heres and example of a personal attack – mallard calls the brethrens “chinless scarf wearers”

can ya see the difference tane? roger?
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May 1, 2008 12:01pm
Julian

Deleted.
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May 1, 2008 12:03pm
dime

is there anyone out there actively promoting these youtube videos???

or to people have to stumble across them?

David – can you also include a link to youtube when you post things like that?? that way its easy for people like me to email the URL.. i can never find it when they are embedded
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May 1, 2008 12:05pm
Johnboy

While some EBs may be “chinless” and some may be “scarf wearers” I believe they dont commit adultery, being people with strong moral beliefs. I know who I would prefer to trust.
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May 1, 2008 12:07pm
Tane

I’m not trolling David, just pointing out that this is exactly the kind of thing that if the Left did it the Nats would be screaming about personal attacks. Hell, the Nats even complain about personal attacks when people critique their policies!

I’m genuinely sorry to have ruined your thread, I know what it’s like. But I can’t help it if every time I make a comment here I get twenty or so abusive comments thrown at me by your readers.

[DPF: Tane that video is absolutely mild compared to material on your site.]
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May 1, 2008 12:09pm
Johnboy

” But I can’t help it if every time I make a comment here I get twenty or so abusive comments thrown at me by your readers.”

I thought masochism was common among labour ranks so thats why you came here so often. Sorry to have misjudged you.
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May 1, 2008 12:16pm
Spam

From Jordan Carter:

To me a personal attack in politics has some or all of the following characteristics:

it is based on something untrue – that is, it is dishonest
it is an attack on something personal about the candidate that isn’t relevant to their public office *
it attacks aspects of the candidate’s performance that aren’t relevant to the job

So which part of this video is a “personal attack” exactly?
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May 1, 2008 12:20pm
Murray

Stuck on diddums here.
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May 1, 2008 12:27pm
Pascal

Tane: But I can’t help it if every time I make a comment here I get twenty or so abusive comments thrown at me by your readers

Actually, you can help it. You could try being honest and having some standards, rather than simply singing the “Labour Good, National Bad” mantra everytime you post.
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May 1, 2008 12:28pm
democracymum

I don’t know what is sadder

That these are the idiots who are supposed to be running the country

Or the fact that we have let them.

New Zealanders need to have the same backbone exhibited by our Anzac soldiers
and stand up for our beautiful country

AT THE NEXT ELECTION

These people have made fools out of us all for too long.
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May 1, 2008 12:35pm
Lee C

democracymum

I can suggest something sadder than your suggestions: grown people who go to blog sites that they feel threatened by to deliberately troll because they are working from an ethically redundant mind-set. You have to ask, “Couldn’t his/her bosses have given him something a little more ‘meaningful’ to do with his/her time?” But DPF has nailed it – the best way to destroy a troll is to ignore it, especially when it is apparent that to respond merely feeds its already overblown ego.
Hey! It wasn’t so long ago that certain characters the left were celebrating the ‘they are better at this kind of stuff than us.’ when a tory lamented the gutter-tactics employed against their opponants. As Helen would say: “What has changed,?” Well, perhaps what has changed is that those who were laughing so hard a few months ago find themselves in an actual minority of opinion, and it is hurtin’ big time. For Tane whose blog ran various ‘personal attacks’ against Key for so long to try to scale the moral higher ground is a bit like watching a red-bummed baboon scaling a greasy pole. The higher he climbs, the uglier it looks to everyone underneath him.
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May 1, 2008 12:56pm
Zarchoff

Tane, I guess this is one place where you SHOULD expect the Spanish Inquisition….
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May 1, 2008 1:08pm
Johnboy

” a bit like watching a red-bummed baboon scaling a greasy pole. The higher he climbs, the uglier it looks to everyone underneath him.” LOVE it!
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May 1, 2008 1:08pm
freethinker

Get Staffed

Helen is not queen of the May but us certainley queen of the queers
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May 1, 2008 1:15pm
Buggerlugs

Hell, the Nats even complain about personal attacks when people critique their policies!

Ah, that’s because it usually takes this approach, Tutae:

“John Key can’t talk about climate change credibly when he’s a rich prick slippery baby-eater,” said Miss Clark.

Labour can’t critique policy because they don’t usually have time after getting all the personal attacks in first.
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May 1, 2008 1:53pm
Johnboy

Its true! its true! Judith Tizards theory is true! Watch the video again carefully when Helen goes HUH HUH then read this (from Wiki again).

“While cockroaches do not have lungs and thus do not actively breathe in the vertebrate lung manner, in some very large species the body musculature may contract rhythmically to forcibly move air out and in the spiracles; this may be considered a form of breathing.”

Proof positive I believe!
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May 1, 2008 1:58pm
slightlyrighty

Tane.

How you can accuse National of engaging in personal attacks on the basis of this youtube video is astonishing. The words spoken are Labours, the footage is primarily of Labour. Admittedly it is put in a specific context but it hardly constitutes a personal attack.

If you want to see what a personal attack looks like, check the singing at the Labour Conference, Check phrases like “rich prick” and “slippery john”.

This is a type of personal attack known as “poisoning the well”. This sort of “reasoning” involves trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person. This “argument” has the following form:

1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.

This sort of “reasoning” is obviously fallacious. The person making such an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem in which the attack is made prior to the person even making the claim or claims.

This is exactly what we are seeing from the Labour Benches today. It is disgusting, boorish and childish and the public of NZ deserve better.
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May 1, 2008 2:06pm
Rex Widerstrom

Tane says:

More personal attacks from the National Party eh?

Reality check time, Tane. Have a look at this. It’s a Labour supporter’s video, listing the many admirable achievements of Labour, going back to the introduction of State housing and so forth. While some of the points they list might be contentious (opposition to conscription in WWI for instance) in the minds of some, there’s no doubt that Labour has a history of Leaders being open about their beliefs and standing up for them openly and honestly, and sometimes achieving great things in the process.

So how does this hagiographic portrayal end?

“There’s more to Labour than Helen Clark”

Given the source, it says volumes more about the credibility of the ‘leader’ you desperately defend than any National supporter’s “attack” video ever could, don’t you think?

Labour’s cause may not be lost – but this government’s certainly is.
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May 1, 2008 2:07pm
Inventory2

Johnboy – brilliant!!!

And Tane, if you can’t stand the heat……….
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May 1, 2008 2:09pm
3-coil

Rex – interesting video link.

The Labour film-maker provided an unwitting example of another Labour achievement (fucking up our education system) with the glaring spelling mistake in the first line!

And as for Dave “Hobgoblin” Dobbyn’s nauseous soundtrack – don’t they realise that “Loyal” has been shortlisted as one of the worst NZ songs ever written?
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May 1, 2008 2:25pm
Pita

What virtue remains in the Labour party that commands Tane’s continued loyal support and which is no longer seen by their constituents?
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May 1, 2008 2:26pm
Inventory2

But Pita, Tane reckons he doesn’t support Labour. He obviously just gets off on attacking National and John Key!
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May 1, 2008 2:50pm
Ramsay

A direct quote from The Standard about Judith Collins…………………..

“Collins is rabidly anti the welfare state and a nasty piece of work. ”

Calling Judith Collins “a nasty piece of work” is a personal attack.

True to form, Tane, your pissy little piece of propaganda should be called the Double Standard.
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May 1, 2008 3:09pm
francis

whale oil’s response to the standard’s response to these cracked me up. hey, video wars! yay! very web3.
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May 1, 2008 3:44pm
JSF2008

we are ruled by fuckwits. tane , and there are people who post in support of these fuckwits, need i say more, ps tane i se helen clark/davis NEW best friends the commie chinese have sent TIBETIANS to prison from 3years to life um SOON chopped up for organs i would say , another thought tane most precursors for P come from good old disgusting red china, so our liarbour best friend are stuffing our countries future up , but hell tane fly the red flag (the workers flag is deepest red , YER RIGHT great tui ad TANE, post on :))
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May 1, 2008 9:19pm
expat

A nice summary of why Labour must go; they are in the same league as red Ken and his fucked up cohorts who have been screwing the London taxpayer. Too much power for too long and they have become well and truely corrupt.
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May 2, 2008 7:05am
LabourMustBeLiquidated

Tane is a hand puppet for Helen Clark. The only time he talks is when dear leader has her hand up his ass.
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May 2, 2008 10:47am

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