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August 18, 2008 8:31am by David Farrar

General Debate 18 August 2008

I’m still waking up!

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expat

Spooning or own side.

NZD.JPY?
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August 18, 2008 8:48am
homepaddock

The privileges committee meets today but the Dominon has poll results that show the public has already held Peters to account.

However, as the Herald editorial points out it will take only 1 voter in 20 to tick his party to get him back into parliament and potentially in government.
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August 18, 2008 8:50am
expat

They are likely to haul him over the shag pile carpet and ask him really nicely if he possibly think about quietening down a bit since its election year and all.
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August 18, 2008 8:52am
PaulL

Depends how the chair handles things. I suspect they will want at least a semblence of investigation – and if they give Heather Roy a bit of time to ask questions he could be in trouble. I also suspect that the Labour representatives will be under instructions to not appear to be letting Winston off lightly – the polls were bad news for Labour in this respect. If Labour aren’t giving him a free pass, and ACT and the Greens decide to get into him, it could be quite entertaining. I expect he’ll attempt bluster and not answering, but I’m hoping that our parliamentary representatives are slightly better at asking the right questions than the fourth estate are.
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August 18, 2008 9:50am
virtualmark

Expat, my take is that the poll figures in today’s DomPost signal to Labour & National that they can take a “free hit” at Winnie tonight in the Privileges committee. And it signals to the Greens that they need to step up their profile or end up out on their arse in 3 months time, which also suggests they’ll want to lead the attack on Winnie.

That poll couldn’t have come out at a worse time for Winnie. Now the Privileges Committee knows that whacking him will be popular with a majority of voters.
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August 18, 2008 9:50am
Owen McShane

From the secretary of the US Senate Committee on the Environment: Seems many more Americans will be aware of this action than New Zealanders. Why the local blackout?

From: MarcMorano@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 2:26 PM
Subject: Bravo! Lone New Zealand man tries to block global warming law

Excerpt: A Queenstown man is taking High Court action to prevent the Government enacting the controversial Emissions Trading Scheme. Former property developer Basil Walker is seeking an injunction against all Labour Party MPs preventing the scheme being passed into law before this year’s election. Mr Walker said he was acting in the interests of the people of New Zealand. “I’ve taken the action because someone had to. This Government is trying to force this on the people and someone had to stand up and say that there is no evidence to support it,” he said yesterday. […] Mr Walker said he did not have any legal representation but was considering requesting some assistance from like-minded people. “I want to win. If I lose? What a tragedy to think about that $2 billion-plus that our country will give for no return each year. I’m not going to let that happen without attempting to stop it.” He said, in particular, he took issue with the Government’s acceptance of the theory of global warming and the necessity of the Kyoto Protocol, which he said would decimate farming and manufacturing. He had included copies of “35 Inconvenient Truths — The Errors In Al Gore’s Movie”, by Christopher Monckton Brenchle and Muriel Newman’s article “Exposing the Climate Change Agenda” as evidence for the court.
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August 18, 2008 9:56am
wreck1080

What about the detective who left a completely unprofessional message on Tony Veitches answering machine.

It is reported that the detective said…

“I bet he hasn’t got a smile on his face like that any more”

That is surely a sackable offence. My interpretation of this message, is that the police have a personal grudge against Tony Veitch, because the message is a personally offensive one. I wonder, will the police also plant evidence to secure a conviction?

Although, maybe my opinion is formed after malicious police harrassment of a friend.
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August 18, 2008 10:09am
homepaddock

Owen – the story was in the Southland Times and I blogged on it last night: http://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/southerner-taking-labour-caucus-to-court/
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August 18, 2008 10:18am
Chicken Little

Owen, He should also include this.

Anyone with an interest in Global Warming/Climate Change from whichever side should read the linked article.
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August 18, 2008 10:18am
s.russell

The polling on Winston is actually mixed. TVNZ and fairfax have him down, but Morgan has him up – at 6.5%. I suspect this may stem from the different way they ask questions. A lot of people think Winston is tremendously entertaining, and the more he annoys other politicians the more they like him. These people do not care about ethics and serious stuff like that. Voting is not the serious choice most people take it for. The way the pollsters set up and ask the question (eg what other questions are asked first) may or may not get people to think seriously about their response.
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August 18, 2008 10:22am
peterwn

wreck1080

This ranks with a lawyer who finished a letter to another lawyer indicating that the latter’s client would be more suited to living in a state housing area. The latter lawyer (after seeking advice from various sources) wrote to the writer suggesting that the letter be re-written with the offending sentence removed and originals destroyed which was duly done. However the covering letter accidentally came to the attention of the client and all hell broke loose.

The approach was found to be at fault. The client’s lawyer had an ethical duty to pass a copy of the ‘offending’ letter to the client despite being a potential ‘bombshell’. I think the main concern was that if the client (the sort from hell) had seen the original letter, it would have made his day and he was denied this.
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August 18, 2008 10:37am
Glutaemus Maximus

The huge push for climate change legislation, and all the other scare stories about oil running out is starting to be tested in Courts.

Hurrah for the Queenstown Patriot.

Found this article on the interweb mangling the Al Gore Climate Religion.

http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/10/30/35-scientific-errors-or-intentional-lies-in-an-inconvenient-truth/
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August 18, 2008 10:49am
PhilBest

Owen Mcshane, Chicken Little, Glutaeus Maximus:

Here is MY list of Global Warming “Required Reading”:

Edward J. Wegman et al: “Ad Hoc Committee Report (To the US Senate Committee on Energy and Commerce and the US Senate Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations) on the Hockey Stick Global Climate Reconstruction” (THIS IS SHOCKING READING)

Tim Ball: GLOBAL WARMING SERIES (Excellent – best of their type yet)
Part 1: Environmental Extremism
Part 2: Historical and philosophical context of the climate change debate.
Part 3: How the world was misled about global warming and now climate change
Part 4: How UN structures were designed to prove human CO2 was causing global warming
Part 5: Wreaking Havoc on Global Economies
Part 6: The Hockey Stick scam that heightened global warming hysteria
Part 7: The Unholy Alliance that manufactured Global Warming
Part 8: UN’s IPCC preying on people’s ignorance
Part 9: Carbon Taxes: Hand over your money! “We are saving you from yourself”
Part 10: Environmentalists Seize Green Moral High Ground Ignoring Science
Part 11: Maurice Strong Politics 101

Vincent Gray: “Spinning the Climate”

S. Fred Singer et al: “Nature, Not Human Activity, Rules the Climate”

John McLean: “Peer Review? What Peer Review?”

Jack Welch: “NIWA Scientists have become propagandists”

Brian Sussman: “James Hansen: Abusing the Public Trust”

Laurence Solomon: “The Deniers”

Ray Evans: “The Chilling Costs of Climate Catastrophism”
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August 18, 2008 11:12am
PhilBest

By the way, where are:
D4J
Redbaiter
Roger Nome
Philu

Are they banned?
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August 18, 2008 11:14am
big bruv

Phil

You may be glad to know that PhilU is due back any day now, D4J has said on Frogblog that he has no intention of ever coming back to Kiwiblog.
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August 18, 2008 11:41am
PaulL

Demerits link on front page tells you that. All banned as it turns out. What do you reckon on the chances of allowing the registered commentors to vote to make those bans indefinite – say, require a 90% majority of votes cast? Nothing like tyranny of the majority….

Current Suspensions:

Dad4Justice – 20 (26/2/08) + 10 (6/3/08) + 10 (11/03/08) + 5 (23/3/08) + 10 (24/3/08) + 10 (31/3/08) + 10 (17/04/08) + 20 (18/5/08) + 20 (8/7/08) = 115 = two months suspension until 9 September 2008
Phil U – 20 (26/2/08) + 20 (1/3/08) + 10 (9/3/08) + 10 (16/04/08) + 20 (17/7/08) + 10 (2/8/08) + 20 (11/8/08) = 110 = one week suspension until 19 Aug 2008
Redbaiter – 35 (15/10/07) and 20 (24/10/07) and 20 (29/10/07) + 5 (23/3/08) + 10 (07/04/08) + 20 (11/8/08) = 110 total = one week suspension until 19 Aug 2008
Roger Nome = 30 (8/7/08) + 10 (8/7/08) + 20 (18/7/08)+ 20 (24/7/08) + 10 (31/7/08) + 10 (2/8/08) = 100 – one month until 3/9/09
Rocket Boy – indefinite for sheer nastiness
“Robert Owen” (indefinite – for grossly abusive vitriol towards the blog owner and multiple fake identities)
Robinson/d (indefinite – repeated slander and lies)
Sam Dixon/Daedulus – indefinite for wikipedia vandalising linking me to neo nazis
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August 18, 2008 11:49am
PaulL

Demerits link on front page tells you that. All banned as it turns out. What do you reckon on the chances of allowing the registered commentors to vote to make those bans indefinite – say, require a 90% majority of votes cast? Nothing like tyranny of the majority….

Current Suspensions:

Dad4Justice – two months suspension until 9 September 2008
Phil U – one week suspension until 19 Aug 2008
Redbaiter – one week suspension until 19 Aug 2008
Roger Nome – one month until 3/9/09
Rocket Boy – indefinite for sheer nastiness
“Robert Owen” (indefinite – for grossly abusive vitriol towards the blog owner and multiple fake identities)
Robinson/d (indefinite – repeated slander and lies)
Sam Dixon/Daedulus – indefinite for wikipedia vandalising linking me to neo nazis
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August 18, 2008 11:51am
Hoolian

Oh but I miss D4J’s rants. What will life be like without him?
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August 18, 2008 12:07pm
PhilBest

I miss the long ideological debates with Roger Nome……..

I really miss Redbaiter’s bit in the “shock and awe” tactics against the likes of Roger Nome, but seeing he hasn’t been around for so long, their absences tend to cancel each other out.

If the Nome isn’t banned, perhaps he’s finally become too ashamed to keep defending Helen’s mob?
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August 18, 2008 12:19pm
PhilBest

By the way, this little piece of history is a GOODIE:

Oliver Cromwell’s Speech on the Dissolution of the Long Parliament
Given to the House of Commons

20 April 1653

“It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your
contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and
enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell
your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have
no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience
for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den
of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the
whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone!
So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!”
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August 18, 2008 12:20pm
Dock

Man I miss D4J!!

I love the way he calls it like he thinks it.

No moderation

No sparing anyones feellings.

Totally off the cuff reaction.

Love it.

Sometimes way over the top but hits the mark an awful lot of times.
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August 18, 2008 12:21pm
PhilBest

Is this little historical interlude a goodie or what?

Oliver Cromwell’s Speech on the Dissolution of the Long Parliament
Given to the House of Commons

20 April 1653

“It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your
contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and
enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell
your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have
no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience
for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den
of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the
whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone!
So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!”
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August 18, 2008 12:22pm
PhilBest

I am having trouble posting. I am trying to post Oliver Cromwell’s famous speech on the occasion of his dismissal of Parliament…..there are some good bits in there that maybe could be re-used?
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August 18, 2008 12:24pm
PhilBest

http://74.6.146.244/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=oliver+cromwell+speech+parliament+bauble+rump&y=Search&rd=r1&meta=vc%3Dnz&fr=yfp-t-501&fp_ip=NZ&u=se2.isn.ch/serviceengine/FileContent%3FserviceID%3D23%26fileid%3DB7976CD9-0802-9409-74BB-F5E339E9FC5E%26lng%3Den&w=oliver+cromwell+speech+speeches+parliament+bauble+baubles+rump+rumps&d=cNqhLRg5RJw8&icp=1&.intl=nz
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August 18, 2008 12:25pm
PhilBest

That’s odd, I can post a link to the speech (cache), but I can’t just copy and paste it……….
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August 18, 2008 12:26pm
bobux

D4J gone for good?

Hell, that calls for a drink.

Unlike Dock, I won’t miss him and his irrational tirades at all.

They say a stopped clock is right twice a day, his hit rate was somewhat lower than that.
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August 18, 2008 1:52pm
Owen McShane

More Non Reporting.
Has anyone seen anything about this in the mainstream print media. I was interviewed on Newstalk and the following is from Radio NZ but the dailies seem to be silent.
And as usual the LGNZ is talking crap.

A Select Committee is recommending the Government acts to ensure more land is made available for subdivisions so that housing is more affordable.
The Commerce Committee has reported back on its inquiry into Housing Affordability, which was held following public concern over inflated property prices.
It recommends more land be made available for subdivision and local authority processes be streamlined to reduce compliance costs.
It also calls for a further review of the Building Act and Building Code so it’s easier to get new building consents for new homes.
The committee used Auckland as a case study and recommended that its regional council looks at what is constraining the supply of land for new housing.
But Local Government New Zealand says it doesn’t accept that local authority processes need to be streamlined to improve housing affordability.
The President of Local Government New Zealand, Lawrence Yule, says slow resource consent processing is not a widespread issue.
He says in the last financial year 96% of resource consents didn’t go out for notification and 73% of those were processed within the statutory timeframe.
The National Party says the recommendation means prospective house buyers will be able to set their sights on owning a home.
National says while prices have stabilised, it does not want to see them get out of reach for first home buyers again.
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August 18, 2008 2:21pm
JSF2008

I will miss D4J ,hes a REAL poster,says it as it is,and they were his real feelings and thoughts. 🙁
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August 18, 2008 2:50pm
JSF2008

Go Russia in Georgia, hall the hypo gungho motormouth usa trained geogian president to the Haugh on war crimes charges(rocketing people in their sleep), distribute those captured us weapons supplied to this rocket launching nutter(found in his army bases) by the Russians to the freedom fighters around the world What goes around ,comes around and Will go back towards the US troops . Sorry folks the greasy headed bright president of georgia,he is very smart BUT SOOO STUPID, condi(DONT INVADE) condi SIGH Big honey trap,
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August 18, 2008 4:16pm
PhilBest

Oliver Cromwell’s Speech on the Dissolution of the Long Parliament
Given to the House of Commons

20 April 1653

“It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your
contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and
enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell
your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have
no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience
for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den
of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the
whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone!
So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!”
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August 18, 2008 4:38pm
PhilBest

Oliver Cromwell, dissolving Parliament in April 20, 1653:

“It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money. Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth? Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone!

“So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!”
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August 18, 2008 4:43pm
David Baigent

I see that Cullen has thrown away another fist full of taxpayers money….

I guess he doesn’t care any more.

“Auckland Airport and Canada Pension Plan Investment Board have reached a confidential settlement regarding the airport’s request for reimbursement of expenses in relation to CPPIB’s partial takeover offer.”

Anybody know how much his stupidity has cost us for this mistake.?
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August 18, 2008 4:46pm
stephen

Philbest, you really miss Redbaiter’s rare gems like ‘half educated commie fuckwit’ and ‘half baked stalinist idiot’ in response to…everything? Very articulate when opining on the nature of conservatism but that’s it really.
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August 18, 2008 7:20pm
stephen

Also good luck to anyone who wants to block legislation because they don’t like it too.

Strange that it’s only for Labour MPs.
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August 18, 2008 7:22pm
reid

For those interested in tonight’s story about the High Court electricity pylon case that featured on Radio Left Wing Drive Time but typically got missed by the networks in favour of celeb pap (Veitch this time).

I expect DPF will do a thread on it sometime soon. Anyway, highlights are that the former Commissioner alleges ministerial interference in the pylon decision from both Parker and Cullen. Commissioner resigned under pressure, the Commission ruled on what the Commissioner’s affidavit alleges was an inappropriate solution, and this allegation is the basis for the case brought by those whose land is affected.

Depends how the media play it but could be very significant.

DPF had a thread in Jan which gives the affidavit. Strongly suggest you give it a read.

Note: Even Radio Left Wing reported on the sentence in the addidavit that states:

Michael Cullen started the meeting by saying that if anyone ever asked that this meeting had occured, he would deny it.

Golly, is that a hidden agenda? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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August 18, 2008 8:20pm
reid

Further to previous, here’s the RNZ report.
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August 18, 2008 8:33pm
getstaffed

Love the new Rabo Bank ad… taking the piss as Cullen expense. Well done!!
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August 18, 2008 9:54pm
Andrew W

Well, it probably doesn’t qualify as electoral advertising, I guess…
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August 18, 2008 10:01pm
PhilBest

Yeah, “stephen”, Redbaiter is a rare example of someone who is actually knowledgeable about the evils of socialism, both in its purest Stalinist form, and the damage it does on its incremental advance through the institutions of the West. What other percentage of NZ-ers are even aware of how many people Stalin’s regime killed? Or that Antonio Gramsci and Herbert Marcuse and other Leftist philosophers beloved of our universities faculties, explicitly outlined ways in which the West can be weakened and subverted through “useful idiot-ism”? He goes into “rant” mode through sheer frustration. The Left is enabled significantly by the sheer ignorance that plagues our society. Redbaiter has also stuck up for me on a couple of occasions when I too got worked up enough to use extreme language that offended other contributors, explaining to them that my frustration was understandable.
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August 19, 2008 4:07pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Two words:

Usain Bolt
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August 20, 2008 2:07am
big bruv

This is hilarious, if any of you want to see Clinton Smith a.k.a “Steve Pierson” handed his arse on a plate then take a gander at this.

http://stuff.co.nz/blogs/insidethebeltway/2008/08/08/do-bloggers-belong-in-the-media-pack/
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August 20, 2008 3:57pm
Ryan Sproull

You know, without Redbaiter and Phil U mucking up the place, we’ve been having some pretty interesting discussions.
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August 20, 2008 4:04pm
big bruv

Redbaiter is good value, yes he might get a bit worked up but what he has to say is usually spot on.
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August 20, 2008 4:10pm
Ryan Sproull

Redbaiter is good value, yes he might get a bit worked up but what he has to say is usually spot on.

I’ve never found him capable of having a sensible conversation with me. He becomes instantly abusive and seems to consider any disagreement with him to be part of some subtle and evil communist plot.

And it’s not just a matter of disagreement, since I have very different views from most people here, and manage to have perfectly polite interesting conversations with them (eg., PhilBest, Kimble, Pascal, Shunda). Even D4J, to an extent, as he and I made an agreement to be polite and civil to each other about six months ago, and he hasn’t insulted me since.

I’m sure Redbaiter would be interesting to talk to, but he doesn’t seem remotely interested in engaging with anyone who doesn’t agree with his views.
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August 20, 2008 4:15pm
getstaffed

From Stuff.co.nz this morning:

Dogs learn morals from owners
New research has gone to the dogs and discovered that canines pick up on the morals of their owners

David Benson-Pope has clearly owned lots of dogs. Every dog I saw at the park at the weekend had a tennis ball in it’s mouth 🙂
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August 25, 2008 12:06pm

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