General Debate 17 February 2009

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment70

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (70)

Login to comment or vote

greenfly

John Key to BAN cricket tour.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 8:15am
Patrick Starr

What will happen to the Guantanamo Bay inmates?

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE51F45420090216

why not put them all on a small freighter and send it along the Somali coast?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 8:29am
Hagues

Israeli tennis player refused visa to UAE simply because she is Israeli. Looking forward to the howls of outrage from the left for this blantant racism and breach of human rights (wont be holding my breath though).

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10557122
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 8:52am
Patrick Starr

Is this the same Pihema Cameron the media portrayed like an innocent school boy?

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3000210618

he certainly looks a bit different in his gang colours
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 8:53am
dime

Greenfly – you think they should go to zimbabwe?

or are you pointing out that National may ban something?

lets look at the stats:

Greens Ban list – 1863
National Ban List – 1

whats your point?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:16am
big bruv

Not sure if this was covered yesterday but I am amazed at how the refugee appeals board can let Ali Panah stay in New Zealand.

Twice the board said the man was a liar and twice he appealed, now they have decided to let the bludger stay in our country.

Surely once the appeals board has said no these parasites should be on the next available flight out of the country.

[DPF: I think he is faking the religious conversion. And it sets a bad precedent I agree]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:19am
Hagues

Looks like it Patrick and some people wonder why Emery felt the need to take a knife to protect himself when confronting him and his mate. Nice nick name too ROBR hmmm.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:19am
PhilBest

Here is a national sports team whose National Anthem really, really MEANS something to them: watch their faces:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biQtrQpyJGo
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:44am
Patrick Starr

Hagues. I’m always astounded (maybe I’m a slow learner) that the media can flavour something in this way. I accept the family may have been provided the school photo they used – but where is the investigative journalism – or was it deliberate?

I can only find one single newspaper reference to Camerons ROBR background. I don’t think his look makes what happened right, but like you say it certainly helps explain why Emery took a knife
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:45am
dave strings

A 13 and 15 year old couple have a child in the UK and the main worry of the press is how they will support the baby when they don’t understand the term ‘financially’!

WOW. Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

The total lack of understanding of right and wrong this incident reveals, together with the blatant money grubbing that parents of other 13 year old boys who claim to have had sex with the mother and potentially be the child’s father, is typical of today’s great Britain. In the late 70s, the country set out on a path that created a high standard of living for people on welfare, abolished competition in school sports, abolished comparison and grading of academic ability, prohibited chastisement and punishment for bad behaviour, established ‘incompatibility’ as the only ground for divorce that could be granted after six weeks of separation, encouraged couples to both work and put their children in the care of a ‘minder’, and countless other ‘revolutions’ in societal norms. The original ‘beneficiaries’ of the country’s long flirtation with socialism are now the parents and teachers and they (well, some of them,) are aghast at what these two children have done in producing a child themselves!

The last four decades have led to the point where society has no values other than hedonism. Gangs roam the streets and take what they want, terrorising anyone who gets in their way. Children go to school carrying knives and prepared to use them. Property (including possessions) insurance costs the earth.

SO what?

Well, to quote the old axiom – we don’t know how lucky we are. BUT there is more. New Zealand has pursued (is pursuing?) the Socialist Experiment as well. Will we too see a complete breakdown of society? Or is it already here?

What do YOU think?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:51am
Glutaemus Maximus

Tagging Scumbag.

Didn’t deserve to die.

Quadraplaegic would have been sufficient.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:52am
AG

“John Key to BAN cricket tour.”

Actually, I think JK will, on reflection, retreat from this position.

Two problems:
(1) Where is the government’s legal power to stop New Zealanders (either as individuals or as a representative group) from leaving the country (unless they are a threat to security or owe fines/have a warrant against them)?
(2) The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, s.18(3) – “Everyone has the right to leave New Zealand.”

This seems another example of JK promising something he can’t actually legally deliver (see also the freeze on MPs/judges pay).

[DPF: I have a post on this appearing later in the day.]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:10am
Murray

Having 600 million people whose only goal is to kill you all can really focus you down on the significance of your nation Phil.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:22am
dime

AG – if NZC doesnt want to go, it will cost them millions in fines with the ICC. BUT if they can say to the ICC – our govt has banned the tour.. then they may get away without paying.

i dont think NZC will take our govt to court to get visa’s or whatever.. they will probably say “thanks guys”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:22am
PhilBest

Yesterday, “philu” accused the economics profession of failing to foresee the economic crisis.
Firstly, PaulL said THIS, and quite rightly got good karma for it:

PaulL (2368) Vote: Add rating 8 Subtract rating 1 Says:
February 16th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

“Sorry PhilU:
1. Most economists did predict the current “shit” that we’re in. There were plenty of warnings about lending to poor credit risks, the historical high that house prices were at, and what one particular economist called “irrational exuberence.” Hell, I’m not an economist, and I predicted it.”

I made a few arguments which got both positive and negative karma, on balance. I would like to precis these here and ask what others feel.

The more I research the issue of scientists on Global Warming, the more I find that are against the idea that Humans are causing catastrophic global warming; in fact I believe that an outright majority are what you call “deniers”. It is just that the Leftwing media ignores them and smears them as propagandists for “big oil”, and the politicians ignore them.

It is the same with the economic meltdown. The more I research the issue of Economists on the mounting crisis over the years, the more I find that did get it right; in fact I believe that an outright majority at least had a pretty good idea. It is just that the Leftwing media ignored them and smeared them as Right Wing stooges of “the rich”, and the politicians ignored them, and are still ignoring them.

Our own Don Brash left a top-paid job as governor of the NZ Reserve Bank, and went into politics, mainly because he wanted to do something about the looming crisis based around property values bubbling, and the perverse fiscal incentives that were feeding it, along with the obstructions to development that were creating the artificial scarcity in supply of property that allowed the bubble in the first place. His warnings were being ignored by the ruling politicians of the day. Had he ended up as PM, NZ would be in a very much better state than Michael Cullen left it in, even given only the last 3 years in which to make that difference.

Significantly, one of the things that has been bringing those big US merchant banks down, is the derivatives they sold based on the various securities they were also dealing in. The people who bought those derivatives stood to gain huge in the event of the securities crashing. And those derivatives were being lapped up by someone, that is how the traders earned such massive fees.

And of course, there were people “selling short”, which is a similar idea.

I suggest that these particular people who saw the crash coming were keeping mum about it and busily setting themselves up to profit thereby. But of course, nobody in politics, at least, nobody who gets elected by the socialism-dumbed-down electorate; and nobody employed by the State, including thousands of regulatory body staff, saw it coming; and any who did, were politely ignored or mocked or moved on. Those politicians, especially in this country, were too busy basking in the glory of the temporary high standard of living granted by a completely false consumption-and-debt based economy and inflation of credit.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:29am
Jack5

Legal aid — judicial socialism — continues to suck up taxpayer millions.

Murder-rapist Liam Reid is appealing against his sentence. He’s the guy who a jury let off on I think attempted murder for an awful sexual assault, then raped and murdered the young deaf girl. He’s clearly a psychopath with the typical words to worm his way around things.

Legal aid is just a gravy train for lawyers. Reid has cost the people of NZ enough.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:30am
Inventory2

Listening to Andy Moles on RadioSport this morning, the feeling was that the Black Caps will be delighted if the Govt steps in and bans their tour to Zimbabwe. It would hardly be on my list of preferred destinations at the moment.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:37am
AG

dime:

“AG – if NZC doesnt want to go, it will cost them millions in fines with the ICC. BUT if they can say to the ICC – our govt has banned the tour.. then they may get away without paying.”

Accepted. And I’m sure NZC would LOVE the govt to say this to them. But there remains the tricky matter of whether the govt CAN do so as a matter of law. Or would the ICC really just accept a statement from the govt saying “we are forbidding NZC to go (even though we have absolutely no power to stop it or punish it or the team members if they do go)”? Maybe they would as a face-saving exercise. Yet I still would feel uncomfortable about the government pretending to be able to stop people from doing things when it has no legal power to do so.

Anyway, I await DPF’s post with interest

[DPF: Heh I cimpare Key to Muldoon in it :-)]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:37am
coventry

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/govt-bail-fisher-and-paykel-problematic-2490180

Why the hell would you want to bail them out ? They have shifted production lines out of NZ to save themselves a dollar. They are still making a profit, albeit by increasing debt. Fisher & Paykel are just a monolithic dinosaur of old, anyone else remember how anti-competitive they used to be, when the shops could only stock F&P and that was all teh choice you had ? Burn ’em.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:37am
PhilBest

Wow. The Don gives us the bad news right between the eyes:

Donald Brash: “NZ Economy Faces Perfect Storm”

http://www.nbr.co.nz/print/40531

“…..the government’s budget position would have backslid rapidly even without an economic downturn, mainly because of a large increase in government spending by 15% committed by the previous government over the next two years.

The increased spending coincides with a strong decline in tax revenue growth because of the economic slowdown, to move the New Zealand’s fiscal position from comfortable surplus to uncomfortable deficit “in short order” says Dr Brash.
Treasury predictions show government debt will rise from 17.5% in 2008, to 33% in 2013, and 57% in 2023 – unless policy changes are made.

This was compounded by the current deflation of our housing bubble, whereby house prices nearly doubled between 2002 and 2007. Rising house prices not only created disincentives to saving, house prices would have to fall to 2002 levels to get close to historic norms of three times average household income, which Dr Brash warns, would have a “dramatic” effect on spending if they fall even a portion of that.

The final challenge to our economy comes from New Zealand’s current account deficit of more than 8% of GDP, where we owe more – much more – to foreigners than they owe to us. This translates into a need to find $15 billion in additional funding every year to pay for goods and services we want to buy beyond what we can produce at home.

Subtracting our international debts from our international assets leaves New Zealand owing $166 billion dollars, which is equivalent to $40,000 owed for every man, woman, and child in the country, and over 90% of GDP. This is a higher ratio of net external liabilities to GDP than any other developed country other than Iceland.

Dr Brash warns that nothing the government can do will avoid a “painful” adjustment taking place and indeed, that it shouldn’t try to avoid it, but facilitate it. He expressed hope that the economy will move from being driven by high levels of consumer spending to an economy which lives within its income and encourages people and capital into activities that deal with both the short term crisis, and the long-term crisis of declining living standards…..”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:51am
PhilBest

GET THAT:

“…..Subtracting our international debts from our international assets leaves New Zealand owing $166 billion dollars, which is equivalent to $40,000 owed for every man, woman, and child in the country, and over 90% of GDP. This is a higher ratio of net external liabilities to GDP than any other developed country other than Iceland…..”

OUCH.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:51am
grumpyoldhori

Hagues, trying to work out if I give a flying fuck about any of those dumb bastards who cannot get along in Middle East, nope I don’t.

If a Israeli and a Arab can get along by owning a cafe together in Auckland, one would hope that those dumb bastards in the Middle East would make an effort to do the same.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:53am
Murray

Well thats the ME fixed, now do the global economy!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:56am
Inventory2

Patrick Starr said “Is this the same Pihema Cameron the media portrayed like an innocent school boy?”

Excellent work Patrick. I have just blogged on this, giving you the credit. No wonder we hold the MSM in such contempt when they persist in telling only one side of the story. I wonder if Brian Rudman still thinks Emery is a “child-killer”.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:57am
AG

“Yet I still would feel uncomfortable about the government pretending to be able to stop people from doing things when it has no legal power to do so.”

Actually, nix that. It would be unlawful for it to do so … Bill of Rights 1689, Art 1: “… the pretended power of suspending of laws or the execution of laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 10:58am
dime

AG – whos gonna take the govt to court? it wont be NZC. maybe some Green MP?

the ICC will be happy to have an out as well i suspect.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:11am
Jack5

John Key has bailed out Fisher & Pakyel Appliances.

Why? No-one raised a finger to save hundreds of jobs at Mosgiel when it planned to pull out of there. Are Auckland jobs more valuable?

F&P Appliances isn’t central to the NZ economy. It’s a carryover from protectionist days when a tiny remote country tried to make everything itself. World whiteware has moved to THird World countries, and kept moving. Mexico now struggles to compete with China and Thailand etc.

WIth F&P Appliances increasingly focusing on Thai production, it’s even further from being a pillar of the NZ economy.

F&P Appliances is important to the New Zealand Stock Exchange, however. That’s what Key’s bailout is about. Propping up the South Pacific mini-exchange. All taxpayers will in fact support the NZX, which so recently had grand plans for international trading in carbon credits and futures trading etc etc.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:21am
Murray

One would suspect that we need a consititution as the goverment can pass laws that violate the NZ Bill of Rights ACT.

You need to take note of that ACT part AG. its not a bill of rights, it a Claytons bill of rights and has no greater power than any otrher bill. Also it specifically states it may not be used to circumvent any other existing law. Thus by definition any law which in proposal did violate the BOA act does not violate the moment it is passed into law.

Making it the most toothless doucment since ministarial warrants requiring MP’s to be honest and work for their country.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:28am
Patrick Starr

Cheers IV2. If I were Emery I’d be asking some questions to Comensky as well – he’s not just paid to defend in court. I’ve followed this case and the only image I’ve ever seen of the Cameron was the angelic school photo.
Hardly comparable to the obvious little thug Emery confronted. perception is everything.

It reminds me of the Scott Watson PR media images, bore no resemblance to everyday rough unkempt bum he was known to be
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:30am
Inventory2

The government says it MIGHT bail out F&P – there’s a helluva difference between that and saying that the government HAS bailed out F&P Jack5
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:30am
Inventory2

No problems Patrick – credit where it’s due, and all that!! I hadn’t thought of the lawyer aspect. Maybe Comensky was too busy sorting out the reward dosh for the Waiouru medals eh?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:43am
Eisenhower

“Yet I still would feel uncomfortable about the government pretending to be able to stop people from doing things when it has no legal power to do so.”

Actually, nix that. It would be unlawful for it to do so … Bill of Rights 1689, Art 1: “… the pretended power of suspending of laws or the execution of laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal.”

I’d say any directive to NZ Cricket would have no basis in law but may be enough to satisfy the ICC. Australia did pretty much the same thing in ’07 –

The Australian Government has directed Cricket Australia not to proceed with the Australian cricket team’s tour to Zimbabwe planned for September this year. This action follows extensive discussions with Cricket Australia. Those discussions also involved the players’ association.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:45am
Patrick Starr

“credit where it’s due, and all that!! ” I actually picked up the link form a ‘Your Views’ commenter
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:52am
Jack5

Inventory2 (11.30) says the Government “might” bailout Fisher & Paykel Appliances.

The NZ Herald reports the “Prime Minister said letting such an important company fail because of a temporary crisis would be unacceptable”.

Proof that’s a bailout is the immediate rise in the price of Fisher & Paykel Appliance shares. You don’t wait until the cheque’s cleared before declaring a bailout is in effect.

I think Coventry was right in his 10.23am post to remind people about the exclusivity contracts this company used to enforce (and may still do) in its whiteware distribution. Retailers weren’t allowed to stock rival brands.

Fisher & Paykel Appliances is a dinosaur in an industry that is not sustainable in a non-protectionist Western country.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 11:57am
workingman

Is there anyway that you can find all the postings you have made in kiwiblog? I know I made a posting last week but I cannot find it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 12:06pm
Buggerlugs

from today’s ODT:
Southland communities will benefit the most from a $226,513 development levy paid by Fonterra Edendale for a big expansion of its Southland factory.

The Southland District Council and Fonterra yesterday announced they had struck a deal over the financial contribution payable to the local authority.

The council confirmed the money would be used for “future works” that would benefit the district, with the bulk of previous contributions being used in the Edendale and Wyndham areas.

The company had been required to pay the council a financial contribution of 0.2% of the value of the proposed expansion.

So what’s the big deal over DOC and the Historic Places Trust? This sort of thing happens all the time – to call it greenmail or hush money ignores reality. When will the media stop twisting facts to suit their story?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 12:21pm
big bruv

See what happens when you let Shelia’s drive a nuke sub?, even when they have the entire Atlantic ocean to muck around in they manage to run into each other.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 12:31pm
Jack5

Buggerlugs, do you work for DOC? (12.21pm post)

A regional authority levy is in no way comparable to a bribe not to oppose a project. Meridian bribed DOC and the Historic Places Trust.

It bribed Ngai Tahu, too. This is similar to the $2 million or so Ngai Tahu got from Contact Energy because its Clutha dams decades earlier flooded riverbanks used by Ngai Tahu centuries ago on their routes to and from the greenstone deposits in the mountains.

Business-commercial-Government sector morality has dived.

Our current political diseases are green mail and brown mail.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 12:39pm
Jack5

Big Bruv (your 12.31pm post).

Especially when one sheila drives on the left and the other on the right.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 12:40pm
wreck1080

Petrol companies just put the price of oil up again….this is ridiculous – the price of oil dropped again overnight ($37 USD a barrel), the USD exchange rate has been around 51-53 cents for some time now. Not much has changed!!

annoying.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 1:00pm
big bruv

Two quick comments.

1. It seems that up to 450 public servants are about to be laid off, Bradford is upset…..GOOD.

2. Wanganui does not have or need an “h”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 1:03pm
Hagues

Buggerlugs “So what’s the big deal over DOC and the Historic Places Trust? This sort of thing happens all the time – to call it greenmail or hush money ignores reality. When will the media stop twisting facts to suit their story?”

The issue was the secrecy of the deal. If DOC had come out and said ‘we had such and such concerns but Meridian has paid $x to mitigate those concerns and the environment will now be safeguarded,’ then the public could agree or disagree accordingly. The confidentiality makes it APPEAR shady.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 1:25pm
greenfly

Two quick comments.

1. $35 000 000 is a lot of money.

2. 40 people is a very small group
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 1:54pm
greenfly

wreck1080 said:
“Petrol companies just put the price of oil up again….this is ridiculous – the price of oil dropped again overnight”
Drop Gerry ‘Canute’ Brownlee a line wreck. He’s got it in hand.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 1:57pm
big bruv

When was the last time any of you can remember a climate change con story leading the news?

If there is anything good to come out of the economic meltdown it is that the world has woken up to the climate change con.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:00pm
big bruv

Greenfly

You did not think $35,000 was a lot of money when Labour were in power did you?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:00pm
greenfly

big bruv – I’m not a Labour supporter. I’ve always regarded $35 000 (sic) as not a huge amount, but $35 000 000 !! For 40 yoofs? Holy Crap! What an idiotic idea.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:07pm
dime

whats the 35mil for?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:12pm
greenfly

bootcamp. huzzah!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:15pm
getstaffed

JetStar’s $1 fares are a disaster (from my perspective). Their website bombed 20 times as I tried to book some flights. Still have not succeeded. Grrrr…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:19pm
big bruv

Lol..Yep..35 million, my mistake.

The point remains Greenfly, you did not think that 35 million was a lot of money when the LEFT were in power did you.

Indeed, your lot thought that wasting 1 billion here and there was not a big deal at all.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:22pm
Murray

Hey look at that, greenfly is taking like us now – yoofs.

He caught conservativism. Next he’ll be out getting a job and bathing every day.

One more of us, one less of them.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:36pm
baxter

BRUV………..Wishful thinking. Hilary CLINTON is taking her Global Warming specialist on a tour of Japan, China, and a couple of other Asian countries with her.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:52pm
Patrick Starr

yeah, like getting Cullen to blow $1.4bil on a train set ……… that benefits who again?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 2:53pm
big bruv

Baxter

Think about that for a minute, Japan, China and the other Asian countries will bow, be polite (after all she is a Shelia) and nod vigorously when H Clinton speaks, as soon as she gets back on the plane they will go back to doing sweet fuck all about it.

I really think you overrate H Clinton’s influence.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 3:01pm
wreck1080

Regarding jetstars $1 flights. I tried to buy one right on 12pm. I got through to seat booking, but it would not go further.

I phoned them, she said it was because the tickets already sold out. Their online system does not hold seats after you have selected them – they are only held after entering credit card details.

It was a bit of a scam sale in my opinion. When all the weekends sold out after one minute.

There must have only been a few $1 seats on each flight – she was of course able to offer full price seats on the sold out weekends.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 3:05pm
greenfly

Lol..Yep..35 million, my mistake. Not your mistake Big Bro – Key’s. Pots of money poured into very, very few for a highly debateable outcome. Not the kind of thing a responsible government should do in a situation like the one we find ourselves in now. Splashing money around to curry favour with the reactionaries. Shonky.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 3:24pm
big bruv

Greenfly

In the vain hope that you might answer a question I ask you this.

What would YOU do then to stop youth crime? the lefts approach is clearly not working and I applaud Key for trying something else.

Or are you (as I suspect) against the idea simply because it is being proposed by Key and the Nat’s?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 3:29pm
dime

35 mill? who cares!

Labour were going to send 3 billion a year to russia as a reward for having nuclear power!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 3:56pm
Murray

And thats a head shot from dime.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 4:08pm
dad4justice

Clean as a whistle Murray, well done straight between the eyes dime. Is the Liarbour Prison soon to be a reality?
Helengrad Prison has a nice Russian flavour to it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 4:13pm
philu

this makes for interesting..if alarming..reading..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/eastern-europe-is-about-to-blow/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 4:54pm
greenfly

big bruv – thanks for asking. I like to offer a pithy answer, but that ain’t the way. Boot camp is a crap, reactionary, punitive non-solution. I don’t ‘applaud Key’. It’s an unproven, probably ineffective, potentially counterproductive and incredibly expensive (I’m sure you do agree, beneath your rah rah support) mis-call. I work with ‘difficult youth’. The most effective action is a mixture of approaches, hard-line to subtle, that gives absolute direction but at the same time allows the yoof to retain their self-esteem (I’d say ‘mana’ but you’d bristle 🙂 Key’s (read ‘Hide’s’) boot camp is simply populist pandering. No doubt the hard-bitten will rise to the bait and believe, but I’m not so gullible 🙂 I’m always very suspicious of ‘big -hit, one off, slam-dunk’ solutions to anything Big Bro, and so should you be.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 5:09pm
philu

and..on a more personal note of alarm..

..would you like some lead with that lippy..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/roses-are-redlipstick-still-has-lead/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 5:09pm
Viking2

Now here is a jury that really makes sense.

Farmer walks free after fatally shooting intruder
10:12AM Tuesday Feb 17, 2009
By Rosaleen Macbrayne

View Larger Map
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic … d=10557174

A frightened farmer who shot dead a gang associate when threatened on a remote Eastern Bay of Plenty property has been cleared of murder and manslaughter.

David Allen, 45, said he was acting in self defence when he fired once at Muni Rangi Sam Collier – known as “Boxer” – following a confrontation over a disputed debt.

After deliberating for five hours, the jury of seven men and five women in the High Court at Hamilton accepted his defence, also ruling out manslaughter.

Mr Allen managed an isolated 607 hectare forest and cattle farm in the Takaputahi Valley, off Motu Road about 40km southeast of Opotiki, for the overseas owner.

Described by neighbours as a hard worker, he lived alone in a woolshed.

The house he was to occupy burned down the night before he was due to move in. The cause of the fire is unknown.

During the trial it was revealed that two weeks before the fatal shooting, Mr Allen had been brutally beaten with a fence post by two men who arrived on horseback demanding money.

Mr Allen, who suffered extensive head and facial injuries, spent several days in Whakatane Hospital.

After that, he put locks on the woolshed and told his boss he just wanted to go back to work.

The court heard that Mr Collier, 35, left his Opotiki home at 2.35am on September 15, 2007, to find Mr Allen, who allegedly owed Mr Collier’s gang of workers money for tree pruning.

Evidence was given that he had traces of methamphetamine and cannabis in his bloodstream when he died.

Mr Collier arrived shortly after 7am demanding $1000.

When the money was not forthcoming and he was locked out of the woolshed, the intruder threatened to kill Mr Allen, the accused later told a police interviewer.

Mr Allen also said Mr Collier was a Mongrel Mob associate and that gang members frequently used stand-over tactics to intimidate farmers in the area.

Unable to escape because his vehicle was not driveable, Mr Allen got his rifle, loaded it and watched from the landing as the visitor got into his car.

The accused shot the other man from 3.5 metres away when he saw him lean over for what could have been a weapon.

The 303 gauge bullet penetrated Mr Collier’s upper right arm, went through the chest and out the side, fatally injuring his heart and lungs.

Mr Allen then rang 111, saying he was the victim of a home invasion and had shot and killed a man in self defence.

He told police in a videotaped interview that he did not know if Mr Collier had a gun and was not prepared to take the risk.

“Look what happened last time. Was I meant to stand there and let it happen again?”

Police found no weapons at the scene which could be linked to the dead man, the court heard.

Crown prosecutor Rob Ronayne submitted that Mr Allen intended to murder Mr Collier when he shot him in the upper body.

His actions were deliberate, calculated and vengeful. They were motivated by anger and by hatred of Mr Collier’s race and perceived gang connections.

Defence counsel Paul Mabey QC said there was no dispute that Mr Allen had killed the man, but it was in self defence.

After Mr Allen walked free from court with his delighted mother, Mr Mabey said his client wanted some time with family members to enjoy his freedom after a lengthy time in custody.

Mr Allen would not be returning to Takaputahi, where he had managed the isolated forestry block for 18 months.

“He knows he cannot go back to the valley. He doesn’t want to. He just wants to get another job and get on with his life peacefully,” the lawyer said.

“Mr Allen has committed no offence. In this case, a jury has accepted that the killing was in self defence.”

Mr Mabey added: “People are entitled to the security of their own homes and they are entitled to defend themselves against attack.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 7:35pm
slijmbal

Totally off subject

rang the banking ombudsman and asked what happened if one breaks the mortgage when the calculation would imply the punter would be owed money by the bank – the bank pays nothing out and gets to pocket the windfall.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 7:41pm
greenfly

Scraping the bottom of the barrel to get by? Take out a loan (contact your local ‘shark’)!! There’s some crazy shit going down under this NActional government! Thought this kind of stupidity was not going to be a part of our ‘brighter future’. Another unpleasant knob of stinky-stuff stuck to the bottom of Paula Bennett’s shoe, making her lean to the left when she walks.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 8:27pm
big bruv

Greenfly

So what you advocate is a continuation of what is already failing our youth criminals….spoken like a true lefite.

And on the subject of the “take out a loan” letter, I think it was great!, beneficiaries should not just be able to rock on down to the local winz office every time they cannot pay the bills, they bloody well should be selling off stuff and taking out a loan to consolidate THEIR debts.

I will only be pissed off with Bennett if she sacks the chap who sent the letter.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 17, 2009 9:10pm
clintheine

Hold up one moment Green Fly. 35 million is nothing for you Greens. I remember that “Buy Kiwi” campaign that National canned recently. That was designed to keep your party happy, despite it doing naff all for the NZ made industry. It bought your party’s happiness pretty easily didn’t it?

Even the papers were saying it was a slush fund designed to buy Green support. What is more deserving? Kids getting out of crime and into something that will teach them respect, or keeping your party happy and feeling wanted?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 18, 2009 5:52am
Pascal

Besides, how much of that $35,000,000 is an investment that will be paying it forward? Facilities, once constructed, can be re-used and only require maintenance. And, given the example from Counties Manaukau, we see it works and it works well. Despite what yet another commentator on the Internet claims. (That being Greenfly)

I am just happy that those children are being given a chance at a decent future. No need to turn it into a political slagging match when we’re helping to save our lost youth.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
February 18, 2009 7:32am

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Privately Managed Prisons

Why is National taking the heat for a problem they did not cause? »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Highlights

The Kiwis are fleeing
Inflation by term
Houston we have a problem
Our immunisation disaster

Never miss a post

Email Address

Links

A who's who of New Zealand's dodgiest companies
No Right Turn
Point of Order: Buzz from the Beehive - 19/4/24
Breaking Views
"Under a better Resource Management system [sic], there would be no need for fast-track approval processes."
Not PC
Daily review 19/04/2024
The Standard
On Lee’s watch, Economic Development seems to be stuck on scoring points from promoting sporting events
Point of Order
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Scottish Skullduggery
No Minister
1 Key Rule to Prevent 50% of Your Chess Mistakes
Utopia
Again, hate crimes are not necessarily terrorism.
Kiwipolitico
Te Papa gutlessly cower to Chief Culture Censor Paul Goldsmith
The Daily Blog
Despair - construction consenting edition
Offsetting Behaviour
RACIST ADVERTISING
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Is the state coming for churches?
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Super Rugby Predictions for Week 9
Stats Chat
Coalition Promises
NZCPR
Tougher than that
Croaking Cassandra
ABs stripped of 2011 title after try disallowed
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz