General Debate 4 June 2009

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mickysavage

Phil Goff should be praised by both sides of the political spectrum for the restraint that he showed in trying to deal with the initial Worth complaint privately with John Key.

I bet the Nats are wishing that Worth could have shown the same restraint that Goff has.

It is a shame that Key let political considerations get in the way of the handling of a serious matter with the urgency it required.
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June 4, 2009 8:47am
Razork

Phil Goff says “I didn’t really want to go through grubby details of the allegations that were made”.

Yet he is happy now to bring this up when it’s not the actual allegation Worth has been charged for.

He is saying it now for political gain, nothing less, nothing more.
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June 4, 2009 8:52am
Michaels

So Micky who do you think started the rumours around the place?
The woman? I think not, so that only leaves Goff.
And people that start rumours aren’t very nice people Micky.
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June 4, 2009 8:52am
mickysavage

Razork

Goff waited a month. How much restraint do you need?

Michaels

It is clear that a second (or third?) complaint was made by another party directly to the police. Rumours were not involved, a direct approach to the police was involved. If Goff had of leaked it you would have seen it all over the Standard but he obviously did not.

After all the crap that has been dished Labour’s way over the last few years Goff’s restraint is outstanding.
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June 4, 2009 8:56am
3-coil

Who is this other unidentified Labour Party woman, who Phil (in) Goff assures us received inappropriate advances from Worth?

Now that the rule-book has been re-written (in pursuit of Christine Rankin) when will we see this Labour Party accuser’s details dragged out for us all to see? It is in the public interest! Will we see the lurid details revealed by the Labour muck-rakers…or will their double standards mean they will flip-flop to protect their own?

In the mean-time, all we have is: unsubstantiated claims of non-illegal (no police action?) activity, made by a temporary Labour Party leader, desperate to prove he is relevant.
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June 4, 2009 8:59am
Razork

Micky Sauv, you miss the point.
If it had been so bad Goff should have released it a month ago.
Credit to him that he chose not to.

He says he didn’t want to, but now uses it for no other reason than to discredit Key.

So no credit whatsover.
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June 4, 2009 9:01am
big bruv

It really is a bit rich for anybody from the thoroughly corrupt Labour party or their supporters to get on their high horse over the Worth affair.

I am no fan of John Key but he has handled this perfectly.
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June 4, 2009 9:01am
fredinthegrass

Hey Mickey, you got a spare T_Shirt “I Love Phil(in)”?

Yeah, Right!
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June 4, 2009 9:02am
Dave Mann

Don’t you think its a bit suspect that some woman took up a matter of inappropriate ‘romantic overtures’ by a NATIONAL PARTY cabinet minister to PHIL GOFF?

This has the smell of a very political sting operation to it. I don’t know this Worth guy, but I bet he has a bit of a ‘reputation’ and he was a good target for a nice bit of open cleavage power dressing.
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June 4, 2009 9:04am
radvad

Goff had not seen any of the emails allegedly sent by Worth. He told Mike Hosking he had had them read to him. The only evidence he could give to Key was hearsay and as the woman did not want it publicised Key would not have been able to talk to her about it. As Worht denied it Key obviously had tred carefully, it could have been a vexatious complaint.

On the other hand, I always thought Worth was plonker and could never understand why Key had him in Cabinet. He also apparently had a reputation around parliament of being a sleaze so Key showed poor judgement in ever promoting him IMHO.
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June 4, 2009 9:04am
MajorBloodnok

[Assuming RWorth has done enough to have to resign as an MP as well…] I’m wondering if there is another “dead-wood” National list MP that can be tossed out so that we can have Stephen Franks back in Parliament?
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June 4, 2009 9:06am
bwakile

This will be the highlight of Goff’s time as Leader, so make the most of it Phil.
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June 4, 2009 9:06am
s.russell

Goff’s initial action in raising the matter with Key privately was very proper. But given the vague and unsubstantiated nature of the allegations from a Labour Party member, Key could not act in the face of Worth’s dismissal of allegations.

If Goff spread rumours after that, shame on him. But we don’t know that.

His actions now, attempting to make political gain from this miserable situation, are more dubious.

It is legitimate to question Key’s handling of the matter vis a vis the delay between Key receiving further information last week, and the action this Tuesday. As it happens I think Key’s answer to those questions is quite reasonable. You don’t sack a minister by text message the moment you hear of an allegation, you check it out first, and you give him/her an opportunity to answer the charge, face-to-face. This is what Key did. You also do not stop the business of Govt (esp not the most important Budget in 20-odd years) to deal with a foolish minister’s alleged sexual pecadillos.
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June 4, 2009 9:09am
Neil

This Worth affair is going to get increasingly grubby, no one or no party will come out with credit.
It won’t be long before “titt for tatt you did we didn’t” claims will be made. Great subject for the nation!!
Political gain from sexual deviations are short lived. Let’s keep clear of that.
What is obvious though is that Key will be judged if he tries to protect Worth like Clark did with Dyson,Field,Benson-Pope and other miscreants from the last Labour rabble .
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June 4, 2009 9:11am
mickysavage

Hooton on National Radio has just said that he thought Goff’s approach to Key was a sincere one and that he could have dropped it on Budget day if he wanted to cause political damage.

For the first time I can ever remember I agree with Hooton!
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June 4, 2009 9:13am
Fisiani

If Worth goes as an MP then Cam Calder replaces him. Next on the list is Conway Powell (who is hoping for a Lee comeback in Mt Albert) and then next cab off the rank is Stephen Franks.
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June 4, 2009 9:14am
Dave Mann

… p.s. DPF, sorry, but I am following this greefully 🙂 A nice juicy scandal is just what we need to lighten up the spirits during this cold snap and the gradual unfolding of innuendo, gossip and half facts is a perfect way to distract us from General Motors, Obama and the f*****g Taleban!
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June 4, 2009 9:19am
Rebel Heart

Relatively old news but worth looking into – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10575446 – it’s a story about a girl who became suicidal after taking antidepressants. There’s a blog post on it here: http://rubyjudas.wordpress.com/2009/05/30/antidepressants-lead-to-suicidal-behaviour/ – also, does anyone get the feeling Phil Goff’s a lot like Bill English when he was leader – just seemingly completely irrelevant?
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June 4, 2009 9:21am
Brian Smaller

Change of General Debate topic.

I read a comment on another blog that said, regarding the murder of the abortion doctor in the States that basically said that when he was shot, the left accused millions of fundamentalist Christians of being complicit in pulling the trigger, but when a Muslim murders people on the streets of America as an act of jihad it is a lone gunman acting alone and nothing to do with his religion.

How true.
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June 4, 2009 9:32am
Bok

I find it thoroughly amusing that even in a crisis situation Key (who I am only just starting to like) shows himself to be
about 10 times better, quicker and more ethical than Labour was and their erstwhile leader was.( The new one does not really count)

Even as Mickey Savage was typing his first post this morning, gleefully wringing his hands, all he did was highlight the difference between the plagiarist/political opportunist (read field/peters/dyson/DPB support)/guttersnipe (read cancerous and corrosive , sent Mike overseas) and a man who stand up and says,” not in my cabinet, if he had not resigned he would have been fired”

For Mickey Sonic and the like, Key’s timing is now an issue and here they might be on a winner. After all, Helen only took 2 to get rid of Field, and 6 for DPB, 6 for WP. Key has taken at least 7 but might be as much as 20 to get rid of Worth. The problem for Sonic and Savage is that for Key it was days, Clark it was months.

So keep pushing Savage, Sonic and the like. Each post underscores the ethical and decisive actions of Key, while bringing Clarks self serving procrastination back to top of mind.
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June 4, 2009 9:39am
sonic

Goodness I’ve not even commentated and Old Bok is wittering on about me, is he a little obsessed to you think chums?

I’m still reading this morning’s news, I’ll wait until I digest it.
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June 4, 2009 9:46am
Bok

Sorry Brian
I cannot agree with that one. All of us, me included are very quick to jump on islam every time there is a bombing etc (and rightly so) bt christians are playing “me victim” here. Only fundamentalist nutters of the extreme variety is or will be tarred with the same brush.

No That one does not fly.
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June 4, 2009 9:46am
Bok

I was revering to your little innuendoes yesterday Sonic. But then I suppose expecting you to have an attention span longer than Corro Street was a bit much. I apologize and will leave you alone. Sorry.
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June 4, 2009 9:49am
nickb

anyone got a link to question time about worth yesterday? cant seem to find one.
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June 4, 2009 9:49am
sonic

Nice try Bok, well no actually it wasn’t was it.

Might be best to await someone actually saying something before leaping in, this is your lowest point since trying to get me the sack from somewhere I did not even work!
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June 4, 2009 9:54am
david

MajorBloodnok, you should be out helping Melissa Lee in Mt Albert as it is almost certain that everyone ion the List will move up a place within the next couple of weeks.
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June 4, 2009 9:57am
MyNameIsJack

Bok (507) Vote: 0 0 Says:

June 4th, 2009 at 9:49 am
I was revering to your little innuendoes yesterday Sonic

WoW! Bok reveres Sonic, what ever next?
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June 4, 2009 9:59am
Bok

MNJ I do revere Sonic, absolutely.
Yes for some-one writing in their third language I make mistakes, but hey I’ll take this one.
If one wanted to be absolutely correct I should say i revere what Sonic is.

If I had to sit down and create a caricature of a lefty for a cartoon, then Sonic would be it.
And as a creative, you have to revere things like cartoons that lampoon either right or left to the extent that
Sonic does.

Think about it:
from the UK (thick accented)
“proud as punch to be a working class man (but works in an office.
Pseudo intellectual (very pseudo)
Thinks themselves funny .
You can see the little thing standing shouting “it’s yellow, it’s yellow, it’s yellow you bastards” until some-one whispers in his ear
that the party leadership has just decided that it is purple “it’s purple, it’s purple you bastards.

What is not to revere.
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June 4, 2009 10:13am
Portia

On another topic – the judge in the Bain trial has just disposed of the defence’s plea to the jury to “put David out of his misery”.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10576367

10.32am: The jury has been told by Justice Graham Panckhurst to disregard any sympathy or prejudices they may have in the David Bain retrial.

“You may think the plight of David Bain as the sole survivor of a family 15 years on and his plight of sitting through the trial for the second time,” Justice Panckhurst said, referring to the summing up by Bain’s lawyer Michael Reed, QC yesterday.

Justice Panckhurst said he was not sure why Mr Reed made mention of Bain’s situation but said they were not to respond in sympathy.

“Your role is to assess the evidence in a cool calm dispassionate manner,” he said.

I’m sorry, but if a major plank of your defence is that David is a “nice guy, with a lovely smile” who couldn’t possibly be a homicidal maniac, then you do the jury the courtesy of calling him as a witness so they can form that opinion for themselves.
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June 4, 2009 10:48am
sonic

” works in an office.”

Do I?

News to me. Oh I remember….
One day for a laugh I logged onto a well known right wing bloggers site from a friends work PC, ever since Bok et al have been convinced that they knew where I worked (indeed Bok or one of the others called my friends office in a laughable attempt to get me sacked for blogging on work time)

An incident I always recall when the extreme righties (not all of you by any means, just a few) witter on about freedom of speech.

Poor Bok, thinks he knows so much.
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June 4, 2009 10:55am
Fisiani

Wonder how the 12 jury members will take to find David Bain not guilty due to reasonable doubt? e.g a 300mm foot cannot make the killers 280mm footprint. Slam dunk! I assume just 5 minutes but they will probably stay in jury room for an hour or so to give the impression of deep deliberation after being put through the mockery of this ridiculous prosecution..
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June 4, 2009 11:26am
NOt1tocommentoften

Fisiani – “after being put through the mockery of this ridiculous prosecution..” Ahhh- the old trial by media based comments huh? If you knew anything about this trial then you would realise it is anything but clear cut. I don’t understand why you think it is a mockery – he is accused of killing 5 members of his family. A fairly necessary prosecution in my mind…
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June 4, 2009 11:33am
Fisiani

I know a hell of a lot about this case. The prosecution do not believe their arguments. You have to wonder about the motivation for taking this case back to court. Covering someone’s backside comes to mind. Seeking to obfuscate for incompetence? Or just simply seeking to avoid a major payout.
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June 4, 2009 11:40am
NOt1tocommentoften

“The prosecution do not believe their arguments. ” – and you think the defence do? This comment alone shows you have very little understanding about the roles of a lawyer in any case.
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June 4, 2009 11:43am
NOt1tocommentoften

Any anyway – I don’t think they reprosecuted to “cover their backsides”. I can only assume they did so based on the evidence which pointed to David as the murderer of five members of his family.
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June 4, 2009 11:45am
wreck1080

Tauranga city council rates look set to go up by 17% this year.

Perhaps, that is the extra cost of making 10 year plans?
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June 4, 2009 11:47am
NOt1tocommentoften

Anyway – it’s not really right to say more. Let the jury decide.
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June 4, 2009 11:47am
Razork

Guilty before and still guilty.
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June 4, 2009 11:55am
Tui

A bit of humour for Thursday.

The hair cut

One day a florist goes to a barber for a haircut. After the cut he
asked about his bill and the barber replies, ‘I cannot accept money
from you. I’m doing community service this week.’ The florist was
pleased and left the shop.

When the barber goes to open his shop the next morning there is a
‘thank you’ card and a dozen roses waiting for him at his door..

Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his
bill, the barber again replies, ‘I cannot accept money from you. I’m
doing community service this week.’ The cop is happy and leaves the
shop.

The next morning when the barber goes to open up there is a ‘thank
you’ card and a dozen donuts waiting for him at his door.

Later that day, a college professor comes in for a haircut, and when
he tries to pay his bill, the barber again replies, ‘I cannot accept
money from you. I’m doing community service this week.’ The professor
is very happy and leaves the shop.

The next morning when the barber opens his shop, there is a ‘thank
you’ card and a dozen different books, such as ‘How to Improve
Your Business’ and ‘Becoming More Successful.’

Then, a Member of Parliament comes in for a haircut , and when he goes
to pay his bill the barber again replies, ‘I cannot accept money from
you. I’m doing community service this week.’ The Member of Parliament
is very happy and leaves the shop.

The next morning when the barber goes to open up, there are a dozen
Members of Parliament lined up waiting for a free haircut.

And that, my friends, illustrates the fundamental difference between
the citizens of our country and the Members of Parliament
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June 4, 2009 12:10pm
Ratbiter

Greasemonkey script to block stupid quiz notifications in Facebook:

http://bloggy.kuneri.net/2009/03/19/how-to-removehide-annoying-facebook-quiz-notifications-and-others/

I have tested it for 24 hours now; 100% success rate in blocking crap.
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June 4, 2009 12:24pm
Ryan Sproull

Anyone heard anything about a bomb threat at AUT at the moment?
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June 4, 2009 2:56pm
Inventory2

The Bain jury’s out now, so I guess that we can start to talk about the evidence and the likely verdict.
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June 4, 2009 4:57pm
Poliwatch

DPF – are you keeping count of Cabinet Ministers around the world resigning this week? I am up to 6

1 in NZ – scandal
1 in Australia – scandal
4 in UK – a mixture of expense scandal and jumping before pushed

Friday is still to come
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June 4, 2009 8:31pm

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