General Debate 13 August 2009

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Patrick Starr

Sir Douglas Graham says; “You better keep paying your taxes”. so he can continue to take his perks. Then goes on to say he would give it up for the only acceptable substitute, “cash”.

Little f’ing wonder he thought he did such a good job as treaty negotiations minister

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10590428
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August 13, 2009 8:05am
Herman Poole

From Stuff:

There was the teenage boy who had burgled and trashed houses.

As part of his justice plan, set up by a non-government organisation, the boy was given a gym membership, to keep him busy and out of mischief, $700 to buy gym gear, and an amplifier for his guitar along with tickets to rock concerts.

Anyone know if this is true? I don’t really believe it.
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August 13, 2009 8:05am
tom hunter

A vision of our common future perhaps?

What I loved is this excerpt:

Lead plaintiff Nancy Baird filled her contract with California to provide embroidered polo shirts to a youth camp run by the National Guard, but never was paid the $27,000 she was owed. She says California “paid” her with an IOU that two banks refused to accept – yet she had to pay California sales tax on the so-called “sale” of the uniforms
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August 13, 2009 8:24am
Murray

Shameless link whoring;

http://hittingmetalwithahammer.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/tennis-ball-ballista-plans-now-for-sale/ Build your own with the kids and help corrupt yoof. (We used to call it education but turns out we’re all bad people for not cuddling teen thugs – see above.)

http://pmofnz.blogspot.com/2009/08/ready-aim-fire-with-newest-wmd.html drop by the museum and see what people who are not sitting at home stoned out of their gourds on the tax payers dime can do in their spare time.

And remeber, people who live in glass houses shouldn’t own trebuchets.
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August 13, 2009 8:26am
Glutaemus Maximus

Murray.

DILIGAF?
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August 13, 2009 8:34am
philu

i’d like to announce a new charity..

..it’s called..”i promise i’ll do better than kidscan:give phil a dolla..he’ll pass 25 cents onto charity”..charity..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 13, 2009 8:40am
infused

Herman Poole:

The question is, did it work?
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August 13, 2009 8:40am
Murray

I don’t know Glut, I can’t see you from here.
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August 13, 2009 8:44am
Chris2

Patrick Starr @ 8:05am – Reading the front-page Herald interview of Graham this morning.

I was struck by the utter sense of entitlement he has towards the “perks” he enjoys as a former MP and I thought to myself that he and his ilk are no different from those two women beneficiaries who “outed” themselves a couple of weeks ago complaining how badly done by they are in “only” being given $600 and $700 a week in welfare.

Graham and the two solo-mothers are cut from the same cloth.
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August 13, 2009 8:44am
Cerium

I missed the debate on Poles Apart – has anyone read it?

“We expect the book will have a huge impact with the New Zealand public.”
http://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2009/05/19/gareth-morgans-alarmists-poles-apart-was-worth-the-effort/

“The Alarmists were right, and we shouldn’t call them alarmists any more – or at least not all of them! And further, it has to be said that only a few of the Sceptics are actually sceptics. Too many are gadflies and deniers.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10590385

Is anyone here sceptical?
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August 13, 2009 8:50am
Murray

Thats not a new charity, you’ve been bleeding us for a long time already phool.
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August 13, 2009 8:51am
Gosman

Why don’t we ask Philu if he would donate 25 percent of his benefit to a charity as it would be essentially the same as he is suggesting?
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August 13, 2009 8:58am
TripeWryter

Apparently U2 are to play at Wellington. Does that mean we’re going to be subjected to yet more finger-pointing, self-righteous lecturings about our foreign aid and International Responsibilities by the Irish Bore, ‘Bono’ Paul Hewson?

As someone who is part-Irish, I can tell you there is little edifying about Irish pomposity and Irish Wanting To Remind Others of Their Social Responsibilities, so there is …

I see that Garth George in the NZ Herald this morning rips away a lot of the cant about the Special Air Service (‘elite’, as the media breathlessly tell us, and no, they’re not ‘commandos’) and how happy those who are going to Afghanistan will be about the prospect. They’re soldiers, warriors, it’s what they sign up for. George also is quite happy to rip into the laughable Keith Locke, who hand-wrings and twitters about how NZ soldiers might kill Afghans and hand Taleban suspects over to others who will not treat them with a chivalry that even the Taleban doesn’t practise.

I like the suggestion I heard the other day that if Keith Locke and that Parody of a Wild-Eyed Finger Pointing Prophet, J Minto, want to do their bit for giving civilian aid to the Afghans, then — they should go there. The Parody of a Wild-Eyed Finger-Pointing Prophet, I heard this person say, (he called him Minto) could use his teaching skills, gained with the help of the New Zealand taxpayer, to open a girls’ school in Helmand Province. They both could then lecture the Taleban about the ‘injustice!!!’ of killing girls and the parents of girls who want to give their girls an education. You see, you just have to be a Parody of a Wild-Eyed Finger-Pointing Prophet to make Kalashnikov-carrying medieval neanderthals see the light.
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August 13, 2009 8:59am
big bruv

Well said Tripewryter
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August 13, 2009 9:01am
Gosman

@ Cerium

Not skeptical about the science behind global warming or the fact that there will likely be an increased average global temprature at some stage in the near future.

Howere I am completely skeptical about all these doom mongers going on about run away global warming and mass extinction events.

This sort of talk is not what science is all about. It is taking the absolutely worst case scenario and bigging it up as if it is a sure thing.

I actually think that Global warming will have benefits as well and negatives, especially for a country like New Zealand.
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August 13, 2009 9:02am
Murray

They’re soldiers not warriors. If you don’t know the difference you don’t know dick. And they are elite.
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August 13, 2009 9:03am
Murray

Not if we bankrupt ourselves to feel good about it Gosman.
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August 13, 2009 9:04am
Gosman

I’m talking about the effects of Global warming Murray, not the impact of trying to mitigate it.
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August 13, 2009 9:07am
starboard

Anyone know if this is true? I don’t really believe it.

..off course its true…its NZ .
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August 13, 2009 9:10am
Glutaemus Maximus

Murray

😉
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August 13, 2009 9:10am
big bruv

Guess which ex MP has just been on a tax payer funded trip to New York to visit a “special friend”?
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August 13, 2009 9:14am
philu

scumbag-robbing-banker-bastards-news..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/letting-the-banking-rats-out-of-the-bagsix-hundred-ninety-six-executives-who-helped-run-merrill-into-the-ground-were-granted-more-than-a-million-bucks-each/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 13, 2009 9:16am
Chris2

big bruv @ 9:14am

Uum, let me guess…. was it the one that hung on the Herald reporter whilst being interviewed for today’s front-page story?
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August 13, 2009 9:18am
Glutaemus Maximus

Let me guess BB?

Er Judiff…….?
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August 13, 2009 9:18am
lighthouse10

Re global warming comments etc … Ordinary Light Bulbs Still Allowed in New Zealand…
could be a new (clandestine) export industry? 🙂

I am glad you don’t have the clowns ruling us in the EU.
Ordinary Light bulbs (over 100 watts and all frosted types and halogens, the most popular kind) are banned from 1 september

People in most countries choose to buy ordinary light bulbs around 9 times out of 10 (light industry data 2007-8)

Banning what people want gives the supposed savings – no point in banning an impopular product!

If new LED lights -or improved CFLs- are good,
people will buy them – no need to ban ordinary light bulbs (little point).
If they are not good, people will not buy them – no need to ban ordinary light bulbs (no point).
The arrival of the transistor didn’t mean that more energy using radio tubes were banned… they were bought less anyway.

100 W+ equivalent brightness
is ironically a particular issue – difficult and expensive with both fluorescents and LEDS – yet such incandescent bulbs are first in line for banning in both America and the EU…

Re energy and CO2 emissions,
light bulbs don’t give out any gases – power stations do,
power station emissions can be dealt with directly, and the overall savings aren’t great anyway;
even if they were, a tax would be better, giving government income with the reduced sales, that could go to
projects lowering emissions more than any remaining bulb use was causing them…
http://www.ceolas.net/#li1x onwards

Re the behind-the scenes EU and industrial politics behind the ban
http://www.ceolas.net/#li1ax

Greetings from Dublin
Ireland
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August 13, 2009 9:23am
Redbaiter

Good interview with Orly Tait on Israeli TV (she’s actually permitted to explain her position without harassment and constant interruption) on Obama’s eligibility to be President.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132880

Answers many of the questions raised by the mainstream media and that they have deliberately prevented from being answered, in particular the claim that newspaper announcements of his birth prove Obama was born in Hawaii.
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August 13, 2009 9:24am
philu

and i’d like to do a readers-poll..

..on the new permanent-nickname for bill english..

after extensive research/focus-groups etc…it has come down to a choice of two..

there is the simple/blunt/utilitarian..”double-dip-dipton”..

..and the more nuanced..”double-dip-bill-from-dipton’..

(the latter has the advantage of the second-letter alliteration of the ‘i’s in ‘dip-bill-dipton’..

the ‘double’..and the ‘from’..also snuggle in quite closely to each other..

..and i find it the more ‘poetic’ of the two..

(say them both out loud..and the utilitarian/poetic divide/contrast becomes even more apparant..)

..so..how to vote..?..(i hear you ask..)

it’s easy as..!

if you go for choice one..’double-dip-dipton”..give it a thumbs-up in the kiwiblog comment rating thingy..

and if you lean to ‘double-dip-bill-from-dipton’..give it a thumbs-down..

(other/new nickname-suggestions can also be posted here…)

let the debate begin..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 13, 2009 9:27am
andrei

My goodness you’re a nong Cerium.

You link to an opinion piece in the herald by one Chris Barton, whoever he might be, who literally accuses PHDs such as Chris de Freitas of being stupid because he doesn’t buy into the fashionable foolishness and vapidity that Chris Barton himself does.

A poorly written opinion piece is not science Cerium. Science is hard and requires intellectual rigor, unlike writing opinion pieces for the herald.
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August 13, 2009 9:29am
bearhunter

@ Trypewriter: “As someone who is part-Irish, I can tell you there is little edifying about Irish pomposity and Irish Wanting To Remind Others of Their Social Responsibilities, so there is …”

As someone who is entirely Irish, could I just point out that you really need to substitute the word “Bono” for “Irish” in that sentence in all fairness. God he really is an odious prick. I wouldn’t go to the bottom of the garden to see them.
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August 13, 2009 9:31am
TripeWryter

“They’re soldiers not warriors. If you don’t know the difference you don’t know dick. And they are elite.”

Settle down, Murray. Go and read Garth George’s column this morning in the New Zealand Herald. Nor did I say they weren’t elite. It was more a dig at the media’s standard description of the SAS. No offence was intended. I dare say that as an ex-army type you might agree that even they have a self-deprecating sense of humour.
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August 13, 2009 9:40am
Cerium

Andrei I didn’t think it was very well written by Barton either, I was just referencing something relevant in today’s Herald.

If you Next at the bottom of the sciencemediacentre link and read that you will see:
“Op-ed journalism is not a useful way to analyse complex problems of national importance that require substantial scientific expertise.”
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August 13, 2009 9:41am
TripeWryter

Bearhunter: I defer to your 100 per centedness …
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August 13, 2009 9:41am
KiwiGreg

Bono is just one of the more obvioous examples of the:

“I’m a celebrity therefore my opinions matter”

“Do as I say not as I do”

school of nanny-state lecturers. He’s right up there with Al Gore.
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August 13, 2009 9:44am
expat

I hear NYC is just peachy this time of year, or reeks like an open sewer in Beijing – you choose.
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August 13, 2009 9:56am
lukas

Anyone still believe that Paul Henry wont stick it to National when they deserve it after watching him interview Gerry this morning
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August 13, 2009 9:57am
gazzmaniac

Bono is, and always will be, a number 2.
He should stick to singing which he is good at and stop being political, which pisses everyone off.
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August 13, 2009 9:57am
Brian Smaller

I once saw a U2 tribute band playing at the Cake Tin at half time in a Super-12 match some years ago. They were fucking amazing. I thought I was seeing the real thing. It was uncanny. They were just as boring as the original.
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August 13, 2009 9:59am
bearhunter

@ Gazzmaniac: He should stop singing too. Gives me the sick with his howling.

@ Trypewriter: Ah deference on Thursday. Jaysus this is a great country…
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August 13, 2009 10:01am
expat

Bono, have fond memories of fench junping at western springs when he was playing with bb king, the best 5$ i spent to traverse someones back fence.
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August 13, 2009 10:03am
Cerium

Redbaiter: Good interview with Orly Tait on Israeli TV (she’s actually permitted to explain her position without harassment and constant interruption) on Obama’s eligibility to be President.

It’s Taitz, not Tait. Get that right. Then get the rest right.

She is good at speaking for herself:

On why she became involved with Obama’s eligibility as President: “I became really concerned because I came from a communist country. I saw the things that Obama is saying that really did not make sense and that concerned me. One, of course, that had to do with the all-civilian army. And I saw footage of children dressed in uniforms, saluting Obama and doing drills. That reminded me of young communists.”
— OC Weekly (June 18, 2009)

On her MSNBC appearance: “These people, together with the president of their network and their board members should be serving lengthy prison terms for aiding and abetting this massive fraud and treason. Thease [sic] people better clean up their act or I will not live [sic] a stone unturned untill [sic] they all are in prison for what they are doing to their country.”
— Taitz’s official blog (Aug. 7, 2009)

Now I see why Red likes her.
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August 13, 2009 10:04am
expat

Meeeoooooow.

Cat fight.
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August 13, 2009 10:07am
nickb

A friend of mine knows someone who works at WINZ, and she was telling him that WINZ was paying for a nanny for one of her clients.
If your on the benefit all day, WTF else could you be doing that looking after your kids? Why do you need a nanny?

Although this is a potentially good thing, if we could organise a nanny for phil he might not have an excuse to not work anymore..
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August 13, 2009 10:21am
Cerium

Super nanny would help a lot of young mothers.

Standard nanny could be worthwhile, especially if a mother has no family support and maybe has PND and could benefit from some respite. Depends a lot on how much nanny, a couple of hours a week or full time?
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August 13, 2009 10:34am
bearhunter

“we could organise a nanny for phil”

Good idea. Get someone to wipe up the dribbling shite that comes out of him and ends up here.
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August 13, 2009 10:35am
redeye

My Dad worked most of his life in the railways. He was entitled to free or discounted travel for life as part of his remuneration. That was removed, after he retired, by a government that sold up the railways. Guess he should have tried politics as it seems they have different rules than the rest of us.
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August 13, 2009 10:52am
big bruv

lukas

I thought Gerry did bloody well there, Henry certainly put him through the wringer but Gerry had a decent reply for all the questions posed by Henry.

I liked the part about Anderton especially, of course Gerry should have attacked the point about people having power bills they cannot pay, there is not one single person in NZ who cannot afford to pay their power bill, to suggest that is happening is just bullshit.
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August 13, 2009 10:55am
Cerium

This could be one reason.

All people who have twins with another child under the age of 5 at the time of birth are entitled to 240 hours assistance in the first year , that is not income tested. If you have triplets, that is increased to 1560 hours over the first 2 years and you do not need to have another child.

http://kidsathome.co.nz/multibirthcare.html

Not saying it’s a good thing or not, just what is. Having a few facts can help.
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August 13, 2009 10:55am
Brian Smaller

Does anyone wish Tara would post something else? I am bored with this daily thread – it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere today 🙂
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August 13, 2009 10:57am
Manolo

Does anyone wish Tara would post something else?”
Yes. An also add Whoar to the list.
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August 13, 2009 11:09am
lukas

BB- I agree Gerry did well. My point which I did not actually make in my comment here is this- We hear screaming from both sides of the political spectrum about media bias, a favorite target of the Left is Paul Henry. Henry showed that he is willing to ask the tough questions and go after National as well as Labour in his interview with Gerry this morning.
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August 13, 2009 11:14am
wreck1080

They converted some of the hubble pictures into a 3-D fly-through … results are simply awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAVjF_7ensg
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August 13, 2009 11:27am
big bruv

Lukas

I did not miss your point, indeed, I happen to agree with you.

By the way, I used to detest Allison Mau with a passion, however it seems she might not be as much of a pinko as I once thought, I hope she stays on the show permanently as she is far better than that air head Pipa.
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August 13, 2009 11:31am
jarbury

Should we build a Northwest Busway in Auckland – along SH16?

http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/08/11/northwest-busway/
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August 13, 2009 11:43am
Tauhei Notts

I read Sir Douglas Montrose Graham’s comments about the perquisites then thought I could now work out why he is so well respected by the other side in Treaty Negotiations.
That is because he is one of “them”.
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August 13, 2009 12:05pm
andrei

Its a good thing DPF is out of the country right, now this might be hard to spin: English: Extra taxes possible to aid recovery

Co-incidence?
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August 13, 2009 12:19pm
freethinker

Chris2 (81) Vote: 9 1 Says:
August 13th, 2009 at 8:44 am

Totally agree with you Chris – I believe I was entitled to believe that my lifetime license was just that but government changed the rules so I have no problem taxpayers changing the rules and saying pay for your own overseas trips when you leave parliament just like I pay for my new license. I would however make an exception for trips to clear Mines in Afghanistan, convert Pakistani Muslins to christianity and Iranian Ayatollahs to respect the rights of women in their own country, and last but not least for Helen to try jumping out of her office window on a broomstick to prove if she is a witch or not – a win win result for NZ.
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August 13, 2009 12:55pm
marty mars

Thanks wreck1080 for that link.

Always good to look up and look out – mindexpanding
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August 13, 2009 1:01pm
paradigm

Its a good thing DPF is out of the country right, now this might be hard to spin: English: Extra taxes possible to aid recovery

I’d have no real problem with it as long as they dropped income taxes to compensate for the raise in GST and introduction of capital gains. Perhaps drop the bottom tax rate a bit so it doesn’t get in the way of the poor accessing the basics. Use the rest to bring down the top tax rate toward company tax.
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August 13, 2009 1:04pm
grumpyoldhori

Cerium, my dear boy we have to get some things right, that dumb cow prefers to be known as Dr. Orly Taitz esquire 🙂
It is strange that septic lawyers both male and female want the word esquire after their names instead of what it should be, shark bait.
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August 13, 2009 2:04pm
Owen McShane

Barton says the Herald has given me acres of space to spout my ‘stupid-ity’ but as far as I can recall I haven’t written anything about AGW per se.
He gets so many things wrong it isn’t funny. Mind you it is never funny being labelled a stupid lunatic.
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August 13, 2009 2:29pm
Cerium

Orly Taitz works more on septic teeth.

• Earned her degree in dentistry from Hebrew University.

• Earned her law degree via a distance-learning program from William Howard Taft University.

• Practices as a dentist in Laguna Niguel, Calif.

• Claims to hold a second-degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do.
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August 13, 2009 2:48pm
CraigM

US Senator : “Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I’m flying. ‘

http://community.detnews.com/apps/blogs/henrypayneblog/index.php?blogid=2041

Well that settles that then. She’s convinced me.

Seriously, who elects these intellectual midgets?

She must have gone to the same propaganda lessons as our Kiesha, who can see climate change by visiting an island.
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August 13, 2009 4:17pm
CraigM

US Senator: “Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I’m flying.”

http://community.detnews.com/apps/blogs/henrypayneblog/index.php?blogid=2041

Another intellectual giant rises up from the Liberal political machine.

Maybe she went to the same school as our Kiesha, who can see climate change by visiting an island.
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August 13, 2009 4:20pm
philu

owen..!..here for some shelter from the (climate-denying) storm..?

you have been getting yr (climate denying) arse kicked over at frogblog..eh..?

..trotting out yr usual psuedo-scientific bullshit..

..and those with the nous..utterly demolishing it/you..eh..?

..and leaving you standing naked..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 13, 2009 4:30pm
CraigM

US Senator: “Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I’m flying.

http://community.detnews.com/apps/blogs/henrypayneblog/index.php?blogid=2041

How can you argue with science like that.

Perhaps she went to the same school as our Keisha, who can see global warming when she visits an Island.
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August 13, 2009 4:49pm
Viking2

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2750039/Political-figure-in-Family-Court

An Auckland woman has taken a high profile political figure to the Family Court seeking a protection order under the Domestic Violence Act.

Fairfax Media has been gagged from revealing any details relating to the identity of the two parties – including their names, occupations, ages, qualifications, medical history, business interests, charitable interests, directorships, share-holding and their political and judicial affiliations.

The woman applied to the court for a protection order against the man. The man in turn applied for what is called an “occupation order” against the woman.

The occupation order is an attempt to force the woman out of an Auckland house, the court has heard.

In today’s hearing, which was the second day of the case, the court heard details as to why both orders should be granted.

The woman’s lawyer, Antonia Fisher, said that, during one incident, the woman “was frightened to the point that she felt she couldn’t breathe”.

Mrs Fisher said the man had also once tried to kick down the woman’s door.

“He seemed to see nothing wrong with attempting to kick down the front door.”

A witness – who gave testimony via a video link from overseas – said she had heard the man “yelling and screaming” obscenities at the woman in the past.

The witness said she tried to talk to the man many times about his behaviour, telling him “it was abusive and really unacceptable”.

Mrs Fisher asked the witness whether she was aware of the man grabbing the woman by the neck on one occasion.

The witness said the man “accepted what he had done” and she had told him “grabbing someone in the neck was inappropriate at any time”.

The man’s lawyer, Anthony Grant, said his client was seeking the right to occupy the home.

Mr Grant said it was “not that surprising” that there might have been shouting between the man and the woman.

His client refuted claims that he had grabbed the woman around the neck; “he said he touched her on the shoulder and the back of the neck”.

Judge Sarah Fleming has reserved her decision.
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August 13, 2009 7:10pm
philu

update on the poll @9.27 am..this thread..

‘double-dip-bill-from dipton’..is crushing ‘double-dip dipton’..

27 to 1..

(voting still open..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 13, 2009 7:19pm
Steve

..fuckwit..
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August 13, 2009 7:26pm
Billjack

How does Barton keep his job as a journalist? He now seems to be nothing more than a pimp for the multi-billion dollar AGW industry.
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August 13, 2009 8:39pm
philu

he’s a man of few words..that steve..

and usually ones of one-syllable..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 13, 2009 8:48pm
Steve

You forgot some dots Phool.
But that is your choice, stick the full stops wherever you wish.
Thonid is right, interaction with you is like giving laxatives to someone with the shits. Undo your bicycle clips.

Taxpayers will wait for you to ….. never mind
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August 13, 2009 9:08pm
SBY

I saw an interview with Orly Taitz where she compared Obama to Hitler, and then later compared him to Stalin. Commie? Fascist? Which one is he, Orly?

She is barking mad.
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August 13, 2009 9:11pm
Steve

Phillip,
Many here on Kiwiblog have limited time. But they turn off the computer and laugh about stupid pricks.
There is nothing we can do to make you work for a living, but we can laugh at your stupidity.
Unfair? not when you invite it, stupid prick.
Just a shame that a possibly once intelligent brain has been wasted by a lazy useless idiot, thinking chemicals make the brain work better.
” and usually ones of one-syllable” discombobulated you wanker
You are a stupid prick.
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August 13, 2009 9:34pm
philu

“..thinking chemicals make the brain work better..”

they do..!..don’t they..?

which ones do you like/use..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 13, 2009 10:08pm
Patrick Starr

Steve – yes he is a stupid prick – but think about it….. I believe it’s important for Philu to post his rants and brag about his welfare supported druggie lifestyle on this blog – why? A few Govt. MP’s read this blog- and phool serves as a reminder to them what absolute abuse our welfare system is suffering.

He is the poster boy for welfare abuse and has the typical Green party supporter lifestyle
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August 13, 2009 10:22pm
getstaffed

Australian Parliament Rejects Carbon Trade Plan

Very little coverage of this by our MSM. Did it run on One or 3 news tonight?
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August 13, 2009 10:30pm
Haiku Dave

something seems to have
stuck in steve’s craw of late, who
thinks he needs a hug?
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August 13, 2009 10:50pm
clintheine

I have a new poster on my blog, he has spoken out about the unproductive people in NZ.

http://clintheine.blogspot.com/2009/08/arrogance-of-unproductive.html

Link whoring at its finest!
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August 14, 2009 2:21am

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