General Debate 17 August 2009

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Hurf Durf

Enough, phool. Your meme is crap.
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August 17, 2009 7:25pm
Viking2

Thoughtful comment from Stephen Franks. (isn’t it always).
http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/?p=2283

The law of Moses

* August 17th, 2009

I support the Judge who sentenced the sad whanau who killed Janet Moses.

Our criminal law developed to punish wickedness, or guilty intent, not unfortunate outcomes. There is all the difference in the world between moral content of a death in a car accident and a calculated murder.

The evidence in the Moses trial showed a whanau benighted in superstition, trying to do some good for a woman who was clearly unhappy.

If I was looking for people who should be punished for the cruel stupidity of what they attempted I’d look for those who’ve re-legitimised such superstition in our secular state. Trevor Mallard is among those who should know better. Now he is alleging racism. Perhaps it is an element, but what did he do to uphold Labour’s proud tradition of secular humanism when his government was busy revitalising superstition and paying its practitioners?

His cabinet should have been in the court alongside that tragic whanau.

What is so strange about trying to expel devils in a world where:

* our government routinely flies bent and bewildered kaumatua around the world to bless and cleanse our diplomatic buildings,
* senior officials even in science institutions (like Te Papa) must rise at dawn to welcome and invoke spirits to guide their work,
* judges solemnly insist that elected councillors must take seriously concerns that the mauri or spirit of the Waikato will be offended if its waters are mixed in the Manukau, even after passing throught the bodies of Aucklanders,
* a taniwha in a swamp can force ordinary taxpayers to spend an extra $10m on widening an existing bridge instead of building a better new one alongside.

Need I say more?

Yes – go and find and denounce the prigs who put their “anti-colonialist” credentials above all else when trumpeting the 1962 repeal of the Tohunga Suppression Act 1907. I’ve heard Treaty worshippers cite that law as an oppression, a breach of the Treaty, notwihstanding that is was sponsored byMaui Pomare and supported by Sir James Carroll. The Young Maori movement wanted that law for good reason – because tohungas hurt people. They held power and abused it. The fear they inspired was holding Maori out of the rational world.

A modern political fear of seeming unfashionable has restored standover money power to people who should instead be mocked for their superstition.
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August 17, 2009 7:58pm
Jack5

More on Cadburys and palm oil…

A post on Brian Edwards Media blog (http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/) praises Cadbury for backing down.

So it was a lefty-greenie campaign!

And how hypocritical. The palm oil that would have gone into Cadbury’s NZ-marketed chocolate would be less than 0.001 per cent of the palm plantation products that the broader NZ food-production industry consumes a year. The Auckland Zoo pulled Cadbury’s chocolate off its shelves, but you can bet it sells other foodstuffs that use a great deal more palm-plantation products along the line.

Some victory. Good fodder for the left-leaning MSM though.
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August 17, 2009 8:00pm
thedavincimode

MT_Tinman

“My question is simply is it normal for a barrister to practice just five years before being made a judge?”

Well in the good old days, before Komrade Klerk ditched the Privy Council, they continued to practice for a number of years AFTER that.

Post Klerkengrad, the torpedoeing of the Privy Council and creation of our very own Supreme Court has instantly rendered all of the judiciary more intelligent. It means that a population of 4 million people can produce superior jurists to the UK and the rest of the Commonwealth. Everyone gets to move up a place! Yippee!

After all, what relevance has UK jurisprudence got to NZ; well, apart from the fact that our laws are written in the same language and based upon a system of English law going back yonks.. A minor detail, no more!

So now, ‘cos they are all more cleverer, they only need to practice as barristers for 2 months before getting their job-for-life on the bench! Of course they still need to keep practicing afterwards; but not as hard because they’re smarter!

And that’s how stupidity became a defence to manslaughter. You silly fellow you. I thought everyone knew that!
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August 17, 2009 8:01pm
philu

what..hurf..?

is he not a ‘dipper’..?

show us how this is so..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 17, 2009 8:04pm
starboard

philu (5327)

comments of absolute pooze…
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August 17, 2009 8:08pm
Southern Raider

Anyone see the Tongan dog eater on Campbell Live.

How did he and his wife get in the country? It said he has only been in the country for about 6 months. He looked about 50, was a very low income earner and sounded like a very near future health cost with the sound of his breathing.

I thought there was some criteria/points system you had to meet like age/education/health/job prospects?
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August 17, 2009 8:21pm
thedavincimode

Viking2

“Our criminal law developed to punish wickedness, or guilty intent, not unfortunate outcomes.”

I take the point – its a good one. But it balances on a fine edge and the flip side is that the criminal law is there to protect people also – those who can’t protect themselves – and at the risk of sounding like the cretin Det Snr Sgt Dave Pannini – there is an element of sending messages to the community about where the boundaries are.

In reality, the “community” doesn’t get these messages because they are lost in the labyrinth of PC bollocks – such as those you noted.

But in the end, as someone noted yesterday, the bottom line in this case they held someone down against their will and killed them. Even if you can sympathise with the perps, is it acceptable from society’s perspective to send a message that this sort of stuff is OK and should go unpunished? To do so is getting uncomfortably close to absolving every act of random stupidity from the consequences.
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August 17, 2009 8:23pm
thedavincimode

Southern Raider

“He looked about 50, was a very low income earner and sounded like a very near future health cost with the sound of his breathing.

I thought there was some criteria/points system you had to meet like age/education/health/job prospects?”

You silly, silly boy. The only criteria were a love of deep fried chicken and the ability to catch a free ride to a polling booth
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August 17, 2009 8:39pm
Patrick Starr

davinci – apparently his chickens go woof
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August 17, 2009 8:47pm
Rex Widerstrom

LOL They go woof? He’s using too much petrol in the umu pit then 😀
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August 17, 2009 8:53pm
thedavincimode

wot, Pannini’s??
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August 17, 2009 8:54pm
philu

anyone see 60 minutes..?

and how dirty dairy farmers have fucked our waterways..?

90% of them..?

bastards..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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August 17, 2009 8:56pm
Viking2

Rudd Chairs our cabinet!!!!
And we just got rid of our lefties and Keys at their place. FFS.

Australia, NZ to review ties in first joint cabinet meeting

Christian Kerr | August 17, 2009
Article from: The Australian

THE Australian and New Zealand cabinets will hold a historic joint meeting in Sydney on Friday during New Zealand Prime Minister John Key’s Australian visit.
Mr Key arrives for a five-day tour tomorrow, taking in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne.

Announcing the visit, Kevin Rudd said Australia and New Zealand had a close partnership founded on common values and strong community links.

“The countries share a similar foreign and trade policy outlook, founded on close cooperation in the Pacific, strong advocacy for open and liberal trade policy settings, and support for effective multilateral institutions,” Mr Rudd said.

“Mr Key’s visit will provide the opportunity to review invigorated work to build the trans-Tasman Single Economic Market and remove barriers to closer ties.”

Mr Key said the joint cabinet meeting would be “a great opportunity for a wider exchange of ideas between our Governments.

“The fact this meeting is taking place reflects the close partnership we have, and the degree of economic and social integration between us,” he said.

The New Zealand ministers who will attend the joint cabinet meeting with Mr Key are Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Bill English, Economic Development Minister Gerry Brownlee, Commerce Minister Simon Power, Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully, Trade Minister Tim Groser, Defence Minister Wayne Mapp and Communications and IT Minister Steven Joyce.
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August 17, 2009 9:05pm
nickb

thank fuck spondre has gone from no minister. might start reading it again
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August 17, 2009 10:24pm
racer1

“Redbaiter
Just bring it on Commie.”

Wrong, I am not a communists. Not one bit surprised that you are so keen to resort to violence. I wouldn’t be surprised if you paid them a visit, far less likely to get in trouble for killing darkies in the USA than Tauranga.
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August 18, 2009 12:16am
Hurf Durf

Why so angry, raceHURR?
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August 18, 2009 12:29am
Cerium

Rex: “I wonder if it’s possible to create a vehicle that is solely for the purpose of effecting system change, getting rid of troughers and perk-grabbers and time servers and lickspittles of all hues, and which could see people with otherwise totally incompatible beliefs working together?”

Has to be possible. A people’s lobby sort of thing. I have ideas on this, but it needs to be some sort of independent group approach, complementary but different to what is already out there. Needs to be independent of aligned blogs. If you want to hear what I have in mind so far (what you have said here is a useful addition) contact me.
nzlobby gmail
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August 18, 2009 5:57am
Viking2

How about this rort then

Not much time to talk about this except to say that it is not new. Thousands of taxpayers have been doing just this for a longtime including those that had kids go to uni, oldies going into rest homes and the Nats. are deep into this stuff. Farmers in particular. (Would the name English fit the scene. Umm well? and he would not be the only one. I guess you should be careful just which rort you take on board. Again the solution is to reduce the tax rate and remove subsidies for things that should be a personal reponsibility.

Well-off families rort system
By VERNON SMALL – The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 18/08/2009

More than 9700 families receiving Working for Families credits own rental properties and are using losses on them to boost the amount they get from the taxpayer.

Other recipients of the scheme, introduced to help struggling families, are using trading companies, sheltered within trusts, to pocket tax credits even though they are earning well over $70,000, a high-powered review of the tax system has found.

The warnings, contained in Treasury advice to the Tax Working Group, throw doubt on the design of the previous Labour government’s flagship tax credit scheme.

It says the rise in the top rate to 39 per cent in 1999 (since lowered to 38 per cent) and the introduction of Working for Families, which is calculated on taxable income and not total income, provided incentives to shelter or split income.

There has been an “obvious spike” in the number of taxpayers clustered around the previous top tax threshold of $60,000, indicating that trusts, companies and other savings vehicles were being used to shelter income from higher tax.

“There is also growing evidence that taxpayers that are not part of the target income group are receiving WFF tax credits by either reducing their `income’ as defined for WFF purposes and/or converting income into forms that are not treated as `income’ for WFF tax credit purposes.”

There was also an incentive to maximise fringe benefits, such as using an employer’s credit card. “This risk is particularly high with closely-held companies.”

The group suggests income, not taxable income, could be the best way to assess the need for assistance.

A common way to rort the system was to set up a trading company within a trust. The company’s income would be taxed but substantial amounts could be distributed from the trust and would not be taken into account for calculating Working for Families.

In one example, a couple with two dependent children set up a family trust to own a construction company.

The husband drew a salary of just $27,303, or $525.06 a week, in 2007 as managing director of the company. But he also drew $67,000 in recent years from the trust, as well as other advances to him and his wife.

The company earned taxable income of more than $770,000 and paid $139,000 in tax-paid dividends to the trust. But the family was able to qualify for $10,348 in Working for Families assistance in 2007.

The group has modelled five “fiscally neutral” options to address the problem, including dumping Working for Families and dropping the top tax rate to 23 per cent (or to 30 per cent with a universal payment per child of $2000), or targeting assistance more tightly to low and middle income earners.

It has also considered the effects of increasing GST to 15 per cent, 17.5 per cent or 20 per cent. The group will present its final report to the Government in December.
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August 18, 2009 7:31am
Steve

Anyone see a fuckwit comment at 8.56pm yesterday?
Thought not.
Fuck off in advance Phool
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August 18, 2009 7:58am
wikiriwhis business

ok, three points…

The log in doesn’t remember me anymore. I have to fill in my password manually now.

Glutaemus Maximus is still on the site after he said he was leaving, so its still worth the extra work signing in.

Philu needs to be totally ignored. I suggest a complete karma ignore on his posts. Cold turkey people.

That would speak louder than any negative karma.
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August 18, 2009 8:06am

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